How integrated are they really? Britain's missing Rugby fans

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I woke up this morning to read my morning paper and was struck by the images of rugby fans celebrating the world cup victory over the NZ all blacks. All the images of fans celebrating were fans who were white.

As we know, there are certain communities who are notoriously poor at integrating, but where were the Indian heritage fans? Those who are often lauded as being much better at integrating than those from neighbouring countries? Why don't they celebrate English victories in the same manner as the locals?

It's a perplexing question and considering British Indians have been here longer than most British Pakistanis, this is quite an intriguing topic. Would be even more interesting to hear views of British Indians who frequent these boards but don't often own up to their loyalties.

Discuss.

 

[MenInG]

Rugby simply is not popular amongst Asians in UK

 

[Varun]

England are below par in Football and especially Cricket (the sport that matters). Are they any good at rugby, or do they hype themselves up to the moon only to get derailed when the time comes?

 

[Mesozoic]

England are below par in Football and especially Cricket (the sport that matters). Are they any good at rugby, or do they hype themselves up to the moon only to get derailed when the time comes?

They reached Semi of the last FIFA WC (no mean feat) , won the Cricket WC and now are in the Rugby WC final.

Don't know how can one call them "below par" ?

 

[Mesozoic]

And regarding the OP,

Rugby isn't really popular among the BAME community in England. They may not even know how it's played and it's basic rules.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

And regarding the OP,

Rugby isn't really popular among the BAME community in England. They may not even know how it's played and it's basic rules.

Why do you think that is? There are plenty of Asian football fans, also very keen followers of boxing and UFC. It's not like rugby is more complicated to follow than cricket.

 

[Varun]

Why do you think that is? There are plenty of Asian football fans, also very keen followers of boxing and UFC. It's not like rugby is more complicated to follow than cricket.

It's a silly sport - needing lower intellect than even football.

Just grab an egg dressed in some sort of armour and run around like a maniac. Ha.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It's a silly sport - needing lower intellect than even football.

Just grab an egg dressed in some sort of armour and run around like a maniac. Ha.

You are thinking of American version of the game. There is no armour in rugby.

 

[SensiblePakFan]

Rugby is way easier to watch than American football.

It isnt promoted them, they arnt the target audience.

 

[Bewal Express]

Rugby is a great sport and it requires intelligence( although it doesn't seem so) and bravery, power and athleticism.

 

[Mesozoic]

Why do you think that is? There are plenty of Asian football fans, also very keen followers of boxing and UFC. It's not like rugby is more complicated to follow than cricket.

Are you seriously comparing Football to Rugby?

Football is played widely in South Asia at the professional level from several decades and European football is followed passionately by millions of South Asians with teams like United, Barca etc having huge fanbases. Rugby is as unknown as Golf to majority of us.

 

[Salma_T]

Why do you think that is? There are plenty of Asian football fans, also very keen followers of boxing and UFC. It's not like rugby is more complicated to follow than cricket.

They follow cricket because their parents/grandparents countries of birth played it too.....if rugby was taken up by the subcontinent you would see a big supporter base.

 

[Danyaalr01]

Why do you think that is? There are plenty of Asian football fans, also very keen followers of boxing and UFC. It's not like rugby is more complicated to follow than cricket.

LOL. Only in UK would a brown persons loyalty be questioned for not celebrating a win for a sport that doesn't even appeal to them.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Are you seriously comparing Football to Rugby?

Football is played widely in South Asia at the professional level from several decades and European football is followed passionately by millions of South Asians with teams like United, Barca etc having huge fanbases. Rugby is as unknown as Golf to majority of us.

Do you live in Britain? My question was really for British asians, I wouldn't expect Indians to follow rugby. It wasn't even that popular among local English until we won the World cup in 2007. Since then though, it has exploded in popularity here, often the sports back pages ( and front sometimes!) are covering the rugby instead of the football.

But we haven't seen support so enthusiastically taken up by the integrated desi population. Every picture of fans celebrating I see is overwhelmingly white which is what made me even think of this topic. We have three generations of desis here now, I think there must be some underlying explanation.

 

[Salma_T]

England won in 2004 and were losing finalist in 2007. Same as other sports....how much do desis follow Motorsport, Golf or Tennis.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

England won in 2004 and were losing finalist in 2007. Same as other sports....how much do desis follow Motorsport, Golf or Tennis.

You get quite a few desis watching tennis at Wimbledon actually. But none of those other sports have captured the headlines like rugby in the last decade. It wasn't even widely reported before 2004. Now you hear average Joes and Sallys discussing it in the shopping aisles and scores being read out over the tannoys at the supermarket. The desis haven't really caught on. Look at me, even I got the date of the world cup win wrong. Kind of proves my point.

 

[Mesozoic]

Do you live in Britain? My question was really for British asians, I wouldn't expect Indians to follow rugby. It wasn't even that popular among local English until we won the World cup in 2007. Since then though, it has exploded in popularity here, often the sports back pages ( and front sometimes!) are covering the rugby instead of the football.

But we haven't seen support so enthusiastically taken up by the integrated desi population. Every picture of fans celebrating I see is overwhelmingly white which is what made me even think of this topic. We have three generations of desis here now, I think there must be some underlying explanation.

Don't have to live in Britain to know this simple fact.

South Asians have no connect towards Rugby as it was never played in the SC even during the colonial era. There are millions of desis living in South Africa, Australia, New Zealand etc (which have a bigger legacy in Rugby than England) and even those don't care about it.

 

[Salma_T]

You get quite a few desis watching tennis at Wimbledon actually. But none of those other sports have captured the headlines like rugby in the last decade. It wasn't even widely reported before 2004. Now you hear average Joes and Sallys discussing it in the shopping aisles and scores being read out over the tannoys at the supermarket. The desis haven't really caught on. Look at me, even I got the date of the world cup win wrong. Kind of proves my point.

They watch Wimbledon but do they actually follow tennis for the rest of the year.
Desis won't be watching it as it has not be ingrained in them unless they become part of that system

 

[ElRaja]

cos hardly any desis play rugby at any level. i know that's a sweeping statement but generally true. desi kids dont naturally have the build, nor the exposure to resources to develop the explosive athleticism to compete, so very few develop any affinity to the spot in their younger years.

i know a few who have followed the world cup and enjoyed it, but even i didn't start watching till the knock out games.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Don't have to live in Britain to know this simple fact.

South Asians have no connect towards Rugby as it was never played in the SC even during the colonial era. There are millions of desis living in South Africa, Australia, New Zealand etc (which have a bigger legacy in Rugby than England) and even those don't care about it.

Why no connect though? When England win the world cup, they don't just win it for white people. I can't speak for South Africa, New Zealand or Australia, but the integrated desis have been in the UK for three generations now. They don't have to live like they are still in India.

 

[barah_admi]

It's sad that the Indians who frequent pubs couldn't even be bothered to watch the rugby which is on in every pub in the country. Why do they not feel loyalty to england ??

 

[sweep_shot]

I don't think you can force someone to like something. We all have different tastes.

I see nothing wrong if Asians don't follow rugby. I personally find rugby boring. American Football is much better.

 

[Robert]

It's a silly sport - needing lower intellect than even football.

Just grab an egg dressed in some sort of armour and run around like a maniac. Ha.

No armour.

It’s highly tactical in fact, closing down the other team's options until they get frustrated and make mistakes, then having the awareness, technique, speed and power to exploit them.

The most viscerally exciting team sport I have seen.

 

[irfan]

Don't know about Scotland or Wales but in England Rugby Union is very much a middle class & above/public school sport so its appeal isn't as widespread as say football, up north Rugby League is popular esp in smaller towns in Lancs and Yorks.

 

[Pakistanian]

And regarding the OP,

Rugby isn't really popular among the BAME community in England. They may not even know how it's played and it's basic rules.

They follow cricket because their parents/grandparents countries of birth played it too.....if rugby was taken up by the subcontinent you would see a big supporter base.

That frankly makes no sense cause I'm pretty sure it's popular with south Asians in New Zealand such as [MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION] who is of Indian descent. In America, gridiron football is extremely popular among the south asian community - more kids here follow the Superbowl and NFL draft than cricket, they're more invested in their fantasy football team than some Indo-Pak fixture.

 

[shafkath]

I'm a British Pakistani and have no interest in rugby what so ever, probably tune in for the final if I'm awake but certainly won't set the alarm for it and certainly wont make any newspapers celebrating it in public because I couldn't care less.

 

[jaf348]

That frankly makes no sense cause I'm pretty sure it's popular with south Asians in New Zealand such as [MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION] who is of Indian descent. In America, gridiron football is extremely popular among the south asian community - more kids here follow the Superbowl and NFL draft than cricket, they're more invested in their fantasy football team than some Indo-Pak fixture.

I live in New Zealand and I can tell you 98% of Indians here (and probably in Australia too) do not care for rugby or even know the difference between rugby union and rugby league. The only ones who are a bit more clued up are the Fijian Indians.

 

[Robert]

Don't know about Scotland or Wales but in England Rugby Union is very much a middle class & above/public school sport so its appeal isn't as widespread as say football, up north Rugby League is popular esp in smaller towns in Lancs and Yorks.

Lots of BAME kids in ‘good’ schools though. Though as I recall from my school days they mainly played cricket.

 

[Salman]

It's simply a horrible sport, just about all UK schools include Rugby for boys in their sports curriculum from September to December, i went to a very mixed white-black-asian school in London and me along with 99% of the asian lads hated having to dive around in the freezing mud and razor sharp frozen grass at the start of every school year. plus the whole eagerness to run around naked in the showers after the game was a predominantly a white boy thing and never appealed to anyone with a bit of sense.

 

[Danyaalr01]

It's simply a horrible sport, just about all UK schools include Rugby for boys in their sports curriculum from September to December, i went to a very mixed white-black-asian school in London and me along with 99% of the asian lads hated having to dive around in the freezing mud and razor sharp frozen grass at the start of every school year. plus the whole eagerness to run around naked in the showers after the game was a predominantly a white boy thing and never appealed to anyone with a bit of sense.

Yeah, us Asians don't like jumping around in the mud in the bitter cold, and our parents would never let us.

Also the guys that play 1st XV Rugby are not very likeable, at least in New Zealand.

 

[Danyaalr01]

That frankly makes no sense cause I'm pretty sure it's popular with south Asians in New Zealand such as [MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION] who is of Indian descent. In America, gridiron football is extremely popular among the south asian community - more kids here follow the Superbowl and NFL draft than cricket, they're more invested in their fantasy football team than some Indo-Pak fixture.

Many of us Asians in NZ don't play it, but we watch the World cup. Some Asians might follow it more than others, but the trend is that we watch only the world cup. It just doesn't appeal to us and we don't really play. Who wants to roll around in mud in the cold, and get chased by some really fat guy and have 10 of them basically sit on you? Not many desis. Also our parents wouldn't allow it either, or at least mine.

 

[finalfantasy7]

That's because it's not televised as mu h as most of the games in will be shown between 12.00-16.00 UK time - most people are working.

I play tennis and follow, most white English have no idea what's happening in any event across the world. They only ever watch Wimbledon themselves.
Hence you don't get many Murray UK fans supporting him where he goes--compare this to this aussie fans still supporting dead beat lleyton Hewitt

 

[Robert]

It's simply a horrible sport, just about all UK schools include Rugby for boys in their sports curriculum from September to December, i went to a very mixed white-black-asian school in London and me along with 99% of the asian lads hated having to dive around in the freezing mud and razor sharp frozen grass at the start of every school year. plus the whole eagerness to run around naked in the showers after the game was a predominantly a white boy thing and never appealed to anyone with a bit of sense.

The cold wasn’t great. I remember getting cramp in my feet because the shower floor was so cold. Though the water was hot, it never seemed to warm the tiles up. And failing to keep the mud from my boots off my uniform.

Training in the gym was better, I liked getting my head down and shoving in the scrums. But overall I didn’t have the weight for the pack or the speed for the wings so I never got picked. I think I would like it better in adult life. Feeling easier in myself, better able to muck in with the lads.

 

[Rana]

And regarding the OP,

Rugby isn't really popular among the BAME community in England. They may not even know how it's played and it's basic rules.

Thats not true.

Rugby is a mandatory curriculum sport that is taught in all secondary schools up to year 10. Its played throughout the autumn-winter in schools. The asian kids are tend to be uninterested in taking this sport up seriously but they certainly know the rules of the sport and cannot hide in PE classes when they are shoved into the deep end of the sport.

I think the Asian parents tend to discourage sport in general and prefer academia but the truth is that the first XI of rugby players in all institutions are top set kids from privileged white backgrounds. Its a good sport and its fans are very warm and welcoming.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I played a lot of sport throughout school years, ironically cricket wasn't one of them. Our school was a comprehensive where football ruled and that was my main thing, although I also really got into volleyball and tennis.

Couldn't really get into rugby. At that age I couldn't really see any technique in it. Just seemed to be a bunch of guys chasing each other down and piling on top of each other. I think it's just not for me. Even in boxing or UFC it's the guys who have speed and skill which always attracts me more than the hard headed sluggers. It's an aesthetics thing.

 

[Technics 1210]

Who played British Bulldog in UK school? Well I did, many lunch breaks, and it was fun! Well, Rugby is the adult version, but with a ball! It's simple to watch, and can be great fun for 80 mins!

But what makes Rugby really exciting? It's that one technical rule, the ball can only be thrown backwards.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Rugby simply is not popular amongst Asians in UK

Rugby isn't a popular playing sport. You wont see many black players either or white players from working class backgrounds.

Most people watch Rugby or follow it because of England. In Wales Rugby is more popular than football.

I used to play Rugby in school but found the sport way too slow esp in the cold winter months, with the grass either very muddy or rock hard frozen with ice. You might not touch the ball at all in a Rugby match! Playing football, you could still run around and stay warm but this isn't the case with Rugby.

I will watch the final and home England win.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Who played British Bulldog in UK school? Well I did, many lunch breaks, and it was fun! Well, Rugby is the adult version, but with a ball! It's simple to watch, and can be great fun for 80 mins!

But what makes Rugby really exciting? It's that one technical rule, the ball can only be thrown backwards.

Fun game. When we didn't have a football it was British Bulldog but usually got out of hand ending up with people have a fist fight after being tackled around the neck.

 

[Technics 1210]

Fun game. When we didn't have a football it was British Bulldog but usually got out of hand ending up with people have a fist fight after being tackled around the neck.

Great memories! Much better on the field than on the concrete! LOL!

I felt the same way about Rugby as you do, but then a friend of mine said I had to watch a game at a stadium. He took me to Twickenham and I thoroughly enjoyed myself that day. The demographic was definitely more towards the educated side. There was no profanity, just laughs and a good sense of banter. A proper family environment.

You should give it a go!

 

[KingKhanWC]

Great memories! Much better on the field than on the concrete! LOL!

I felt the same way about Rugby as you do, but then a friend of mine said I had to watch a game at a stadium. He took me to Twickenham and I thoroughly enjoyed myself that day. The demographic was definitely more towards the educated side. There was no profanity, just laughs and a good sense of banter. A proper family environment.

You should give it a go!

We used to play on concrete , in the playground most of the time. lol

Yep might give it a go, perhaps when the World Cup returns to England. Enjoy watching big games but playing Rugby is out of the question now, the guys are masssive!

Interestingly the Northern teams such as Wigan, St Helens etc dominate even though it's league not union. The Vikings invaded in settled in the North, which is why you will a lot of big guys up north. Its a shame the game hasn't taken off in places such as Iceland, Norway and Denmark, those guys could have dominated this sport.

 

[Technics 1210]

We used to play on concrete , in the playground most of the time. lol

Yep might give it a go, perhaps when the World Cup returns to England. Enjoy watching big games but playing Rugby is out of the question now, the guys are masssive!

Interestingly the Northern teams such as Wigan, St Helens etc dominate even though it's league not union. The Vikings invaded in settled in the North, which is why you will a lot of big guys up north. Its a shame the game hasn't taken off in places such as Iceland, Norway and Denmark, those guys could have dominated this sport.

Good info!

Yeah, absolutely NO CHANCE of playing rugby. I was watching the SF on Saturday and I could almost feel the pain lying in bed! )