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How much time does Whatmore need?

The real issue is the system in place, not the coach. We need to dig deep. For me, Pakistan cricket has gone downhill since that military coup (1999?). Maybe im wrong, I don't know.
 
got to say that Whatmore has been like an invisible man wrt his impact for the last year or so
 
in_cutter said:
And what credential does Akram have to be a coach? A magic wand?

Everytime the players underperforn, the coach gets the blame. It's the same after every major tournament. Pathetic.
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He has coaching experience in the IPL and please save me the whole "its a mickey mouse tournament" BS
 
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Saqs said:
In a fortnight? You know how much of an improvement would be needed to increase someone's batting average by 5 runs? Esp for these 'seniors'
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pcb hired him for champs trophy , our batting has been rubbish this tourny so he should go end of story
 
Mamoon_Ghaffar said:
Ideally i would want someone like Wasim Akram as our head coach or Inzamam. These personalities are well respected and the players listen to them. Also, they'll gave a major influence on the selectors as well.

If we need to go foreign, Dean Jones has shown a lot of desire to coach Pakistan and there's little doubt in my mind he'd be a far better option than Whatmore.
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Inzi is too soon. Too much politics. Get someone who is more removed from his playing days. Ramiz (as selector) and Wasim (as head coach) would be good.
 
hasanmehmoodkhan said:
pcb hired him for champs trophy , our batting has been rubbish this tourny so he should go end of story
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Then the problem is with the PCB. How much improvement could anyone expect in two weeks lol.
 
no more time....enough is enough.....it has just gotten worse and worse.....he has taken us from low point to low point.......obviously is having 0 impact
 
In my opinion it's time for Dave to go, can't give him more time. Pakistan still continues to fail on supporting pitches & bowling pitches, plus they have no answer to swing even if it is a little bit of swing they just fail & it is even time to say good bye to Mohammed Akram I don't see any improvement in bowling attack, there is no swing & there is no yorker.
 
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How will Inzi improve anything?

He is just a sleepy docile person, no use.

This the most pathetic Pakistan team I have seen in a long while.
 
In Pakistan cricket who ever has balls to face the PCB management eye to eye will be the good coach.

At the end, it is the PCB who selects the incompetent players, no coach in the world can make donkey to horse.

You have to give the right horses to coach, than expect better results.

We do not need a coach, we need some person who can hold his head high with PCB.
 
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Dav Whatmore Thread

Lot of blame from analysts and fans in the direction of Whatmore and also the other coaches. However, I think this is wrong!

Once you get into the international team, you should already have ALL the skills you need to succeed. You should have the right technique, should be mentally strong, and everything you need to be successful. We cannot expect Whatmore, Woodell, Fontain to come and teach our players at the highest level, that is not their job. They can only tell players basic flaws and issues to rectify.

So for me, the blame falls solely on the players and also the selection committee who picks them.
 
So when does the contract of this guy expire? Can't wait to see the back of him. Complete waste.
 
Whatmore reminds me of Fletcher.

Does nothing while the team crumbles around him.
 
Varun said:
Whatmore reminds me of Fletcher.

Does nothing while the team crumbles around him.
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But more disappointing because he came with a repo of being stringent unlike Fletcher who was a known passenger.
 
Pakistan talked to number of high profile coaches who were not interested in Coaching pakistan.

Greg Chapell
Mickey Arthur
Peter Moores
Tom Moody.

This is also an issue.

Dean Jones only one interested.
 
No coach can help farhat, kami , malik, hafeez also misbah needs to go as captain see what he has done to jamshed before and after he was dropped no strike rotation, no intensity in his batting.
 
Misbah takes all the blame but this guy hasn't basked himself in glory either.

So he's got rid of 3 of the 4 TTF that infected the champions trophy :farhat :malik :kami

Still nothing has changed. I am personally sick of his passive attitude and complete lack of presence. Can't wait to see his back.
 
He has been a serious disappointment but i still want to seem him with an odi team that's not captained by misbah. The fortunes of our t20 team changed as soon as misbah left
 
pakistanigoneaussie said:
He has been a serious disappointment but i still want to seem him with an odi team that's not captained by misbah. The fortunes of our t20 team changed as soon as misbah left
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yeah i want to see dav as well with a team which is not lead by :misbah.. fortunes of t20 team changed i agree
 
Pakistan need to get rid of :dav , no improvement in batting and NO tactical moves. this is just not acceptable.

Immediately initiate talks with Tom Moody / Steve Rixon / Shane Warne.
 
To be honest I can't say I've really seen any positive change in the Pakistan team since his appointment. What influence has he made? I've just seen the team become progressively more defensive and hesitant. Does he not see the problem with our current approach to batting in odis?
 
pathetic excuse of a coach....has taken pakistan from one low to another
 
I think the biggest question is this, What are we looking for in our Head Coach? What are his specific duties and have we set goals that need to be attained? Thats the job of the PCB and I'm not so sure they did their homework there. I think they just took a shot in the dark. Which ultimately isn't fair to us fans, the players, as well as whoever the Head Coach is.
 
And the sitting duck is back to his best.

Overrated coach who has achieved nothing in the last 17 years apart from picking up some cheap wins with a minnow team and coaching the U19 Indian team. Not to forget a failed stint in IPL.

So what is the excuse now? we have got rid of TTFs like Farhat and Malik as well or have we?

because Farhat has been replaced with Shehzad. Cannot decide who is worse.
 
Sorry but one series win in WI isn't gonna cut it. Every top team would beat them there easily.
 
Time for him to go. He's been a massive disappointment especially when so much was expected of him in terms of backing the youngsters and doing away with the old hags but it just seems that he's been content with sitting back and not doing much. In terms of tactics he's been pretty bad too and with an already defensive tactless captain in Misbah we haven't seen any drastic change in the approach, which has been rather depressing.
We need to bring some good tactician, who isn't afraid to drop under performing seniors and can build for the World Cup which is a year and a half from now and should be the perfect time to get a fresh strategy in and work on it as we build towards it.
 
Pakistan needs to get rid of him and bring back MHK :mhk
 
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Had there been a worse coach of Pak than this guy in recent memory?! Gtfo!
 
Yeah, Mohsin Khan was far better than him. Get him back if not some else but get rid of this pedestrian.
 
Time to get rid of Whatmore!

I think its clear that under him we haven't progressed a bit. Time to move on now.

This team clearly lacks in every department. We have had no improvements. The series we won have not come from tactical geniuses of the coach rather its been our team fight and talent.

Whatmore has done enough and i think its time for him to step aside.
 
w8in_4_0402 said:
I think its clear that under him we haven't progressed a bit. Time to move on now.

This team clearly lacks in every department. We have had no improvements. The series we won have not come from tactical geniuses of the coach rather its been our team fight and talent.

Whatmore has done enough and i think its time for him to step aside.
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Where is the fight and talent now ? All the credit to the players and all the blame to the coach. This is what we call "bali ka bakra" in India .. :dav
 
Time to get rid of Whatmore!

Electron said:
Where is the fight and talent now ? All the credit to the players and all the blame to the coach. This is what we call "bali ka bakra" in India .. :dav
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He is paid to do a job. Since he has took charge our team has not progressed.

Bali ka bakra kis liye.
 
I dont think PCB would be renewing his contract which expires soon anyway
 
w8in_4_0402 said:
He is paid to do a job. Since he has took charge our team has not progressed.

Bali ka bakra kis liye.
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Just because he is paid for the job does not exempt players from the blame. What are players being paid for ??
As you said above.. the good results were only beacuse of Pakistani player's fight and talent :afridi .... coach had nothing to do with it. :dav
Now that the team loses... it would make a lot of sense if you blame players "lack of fight and talent" too. Your post seemed way too biased.
 
Yes indeed, change the coach. because we all know the coach is like a good luck charm.
I suspect his contract will not be renewed.
Sacking him will simply strengthen the PCB's joke reputation - change of administration = purge of everyone coming in with past.

What I find quite funny about it all, is that the forum was replete with posters prattling on and on about
"whatmore is a tough taskmaster, whatmore will not have favorites, whatmore will do this that and the other"

As long as Pakistan continues to play guys like Kamran, Afridi, and Hafeeze (yes him) they will lose more matches than win.
 
if removing him means we can have MHK or any other Pakistani coach then no but if it's any other Int. coach most welcome.
 
There's a strong conspiracy going on against WHatmore lead by Geo group..seems that some how he hasn't satisfied them..today Majid Bhati on Geo was saying there are reports(via Moin) within the camp that the coach doesn't play much of a part and that we needs to get rid of him..This is why hiring Moin Khan wasn't nice as he'll just play politics and mess up everything.Stupid PCB once again.
 
I still feel that Miandad or Moin khan are much better suited to the Pakistan team, as a coach.
 
style_guru said:
I still feel that Miandad or Moin khan are much better suited to the Pakistan team, as a coach.
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is there a science behind your feel.
miandad has been national coach 4 times already and resigned in tears every time
 
Pete Rose said:
is there a science behind your feel.
miandad has been national coach 4 times already and resigned in tears every time
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There's too much that goes behind the scenes in Pakistan cricket. Ask any bloke who has worked with the team in the past, and you'll get the same answer. May be Saj & others can confirm this too.
 
We can keep changing coaches until doomsday but firstly, who will come to Pakistan ? The security situation makes any qualified foreign coach reluctant. Also who would want to work for the real life circus that is the PCB ?

Home-grown coaches need to have the qualifications or at least experience of coaching an international team at a top level - people are recommending the likes of Akram or Inzamam but great players don't = great coaches.

Plus it runs the risks of them having favourites, and we get the dressing room politics that tends to come with Pakistani coaches.

The team hasn't seen any progress under Whatmore though or any fresh young talent break through so it is a tough spot.
 
Markhor said:
We can keep changing coaches until doomsday but firstly, who will come to Pakistan ? The security situation makes any qualified foreign coach reluctant. Also who would want to work for the real life circus that is the PCB ?

Home-grown coaches need to have the qualifications or at least experience of coaching an international team at a top level - people are recommending the likes of Akram or Inzamam but great players don't = great coaches.

Plus it runs the risks of them having favourites, and we get the dressing room politics that tends to come with Pakistani coaches.

The team hasn't seen any progress under Whatmore though or any fresh young talent break through so it is a tough spot.
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+1...exactly!! there should be no Pak retired cricketer with the national side even as a manager. We are already hearing Majid Bhatti taking inside info from Moin and sharing in media referring to his like high sources...:asif
 
style_guru said:
There's too much that goes behind the scenes in Pakistan cricket. Ask any bloke who has worked with the team in the past, and you'll get the same answer. May be Saj & others can confirm this too.
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aah ok....so perhaps the 5th time we will be lucky.
sounds like a terrible idea.
 
Pete Rose said:
aah ok....so perhaps the 5th time we will be lucky.
sounds like a terrible idea.
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I am not advocating axing of Whatmore. But judging by the mood of the fans (which is unfortunately the benchmark for a lot of decisions in Pakistan), I guess his contract won't be renewed anyway. So after he leaves, Miandad or Moin are the best choices as per my thinking.

But each to his own.
 
style_guru said:
I So after he leaves, Miandad or Moin are the best choices as per my thinking.

But each to his own.
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i was just reacting to the awful idea of making miandad coach....to each his own as you say, for me the fact that he failed 4 times already is good enough to know that he is a poor man manager.
 
what a great job this man has done....from whitewashing the number 1 team 3-0 before he took over we went to losing series against a mediocre sri lankan team and then getting whitewashed 3-0 ourselves in south africa....to now struggling against zimbabwe....

really does need the sack....has taken us backwards....please do us a favour and stay as far away from pakistan cricket as u can
 
Rubbish appointment.

I've never been in favor of generic coaches like him. You don't become a good coach by getting a qualification. Leadership is inborn.

Mohsin Khan maybe unqualified but he is twice the manager Whatmore is.

Can't wait to see his tenure end.
 
Mamoon_ said:
Rubbish appointment.

I've never been in favor of generic coaches like him. You don't become a good coach by getting a qualification. Leadership is inborn.

Mohsin Khan maybe unqualified but he is twice the manager Whatmore is.

Can't wait to see his tenure end.
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Spot on!

Even our brilliant management does not seem to be thinking of getting rid of Fletcher anytime soon. :facepalm:

Even Anshuman Gaekwad was so much better compared to Fletcher.
 
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Moh@n said:
Spot on!

Even our brilliant management does not seem to be thinking of getting rid of Fletcher anytime soon. :facepalm:

Even Anshuman Gaekwad was so much better compared to Fletcher.
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Yep.

Unfortunately, people are just seduced by this whole notion of qualified coaches. How qualified was Kirsten? He was brilliant for India.

Bob Woolmer was the only qualified coach that did well for Pakistan.
 
Mamoon_ said:
Rubbish appointment.

I've never been in favor of generic coaches like him. You don't become a good coach by getting a qualification. Leadership is inborn.

Mohsin Khan maybe unqualified but he is twice the manager Whatmore is.

Can't wait to see his tenure end.
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You are confusing leadership and coaching abilities.

He's not there to "lead" the team.
 
MenInG said:
You are confusing leadership and coaching abilities.

He's not there to "lead" the team.
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You are confusing a head coach with a specialist coach.

Whatmore is a head coach who happens to contribute as a batting coach in addition to that.

A head coach is a leader, father figure who inspires the team. You don't get those qualities by completing a qualification.
 
The role of coaching is always overrated as usual.

John wright did well for india but failed to replicate the same when he took over nz

kirsten did well for india but did not create any miracles when he took over sa

same will be case with whatmore,buchanan etc .It simply depends upon the players.

Its simple -when the team performs well-public will say-"good coach",when not "bad coach"
 
Desi said:
I have said this again and again. I honestly think he was a lucky coach the first time around with SL. That was a team with a bunch of stars in the making, Sanath, murali, atapattu, vaas, etc. What did he do when he spent years with BD? What has he done for Pak? I don't rate him that highly as a coach and think he is overrated to be honest.

This is not a knee jerk reaction, this has been my feeling for quite some time.
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this only proves we have pathetic players in comparison
 
Talk to other coaches who have county experience , give a good solid support staff , and make sure players stay in team because of performances not because of been good books of any one.
 
Krishnan said:
The role of coaching is always overrated as usual.

John wright did well for india but failed to replicate the same when he took over nz

kirsten did well for india but did not create any miracles when he took over sa

same will be case with whatmore,buchanan etc .It simply depends upon the players.

Its simple -when the team performs well-public will say-"good coach",when not "bad coach"
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This.

I belong to Ian Chappell school of thought on this. Role of a cricket coach is way too overrated. He can't coach players who've already played cricket for so many years. If anything he can be really helpful at grassroot level where he can inculcate discipline and good cricketing habits and weed out technical deficiencies.
 
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Mamoon_ said:
You are confusing a head coach with a specialist coach.

Whatmore is a head coach who happens to contribute as a batting coach in addition to that.

A head coach is a leader, father figure who inspires the team. You don't get those qualities by completing a qualification.
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NO!

He is not a father or leader - this is your idea of a coach.
 
Congratulations on your first Test win, it really did come early in your tenure :mhk
 
Mamoon_ said:
Congratulations on your first Test win, it really did come early in your tenure :mhk
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Way too early. Another couple of losses would have made sure he is sent to where he belongs to. The guy just keeps on putting weight and never inspired any of our players except Jamshed to become like him.#fatso
 
Its hard to blame Whatmore for the state of our cricket purely because he is an outsider looking in and trying to work with the system.

If someone has to man up against idiotic selection, I'd say it has to be the Captain, not the Coach. Imran picked his squads, it wasn't Intikhab Alam.

And Whatmore being a foreigner matters because, if they push him aside every time, he can't really change anything. It isn't his coaching quality that can be blamed, if the scenarios created by the administration tell him he isn't wanted/liked etc.

I see the appointment of Moin Khan as a mini coup here. Moin has openly criticized Whatmore and was stupid enough to expose himself on the day he was appointed manager by saying he'd continue to speak out against Whatmore. Is that the job of the team's manager?

This shows there is a power struggle going on and knowing Moin Khan, he probably has a job role in mind. Unfortunately we know our team can alter its performance to pick and choose its captains/coaches. They did it for Salman Butt against Afridi...what makes you think they wouldn't do it now?

We like to blame foreign coaches to say our guys are better. Our guys are talented, they are purely talented and with little or no sense of discipline. What a foreign coach can teach them is that discipline, provided we LET him do it. I don't think we'll love any coach EVER, purely because they can't win us everything.

Its not a reflection on the quality of Bob Woolmer but lets me realistic; our people still love and respect Woolmer because he passed away on tour. He wouldn't be so popular had he come home with a side that crashed out of the World Cup the way they did back then.
 
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