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How much time does Whatmore need?

We can beat NZ in our sleep and I am still confident of beating South Africa :ajmal
 
Mamoon_ said:
We can beat NZ in our sleep and I am still confident of beating South Africa :ajmal
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Comments like this make me pity Pakistan.

You believe in something that is non existent, a non entity.
 
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The question is "how much time does the Pakistan cricket team need"
you could have McGrath as fast bowling coach. Warne and Murali working with the spinners. S. Waugh as a batting coach. That would make zero difference when working with an incompetent team. Seriously what is Hafeez doing playing test cricket?
 
soso_killer said:
The question is "how much time does the Pakistan cricket team need"
you could have McGrath as fast bowling coach. Warne and Murali working with the spinners. S. Waugh as a batting coach. That would make zero difference when working with an incompetent team. Seriously what is Hafeez doing playing test cricket?
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Thoughts on Azhar and Shafiq?

Should they be in the team ahead of Umar, Amin, Haris and Maqsood?
 
he doesn't need or deserve any more time.....in an already miserable stint he as yet again hit a new low point......does not deserve to stay...should be sacked and booted out of Pakistan
 
i'm done with him. yes more blame goes to players captain and selectors, but to be honest, what major improvement or innovation have we seen under his tenure.

players have been similar in the past, but other coaches have managed to get more out of those players from what i recall. e.g. performance of afridi in tests under miandad as coach (i am no way trying to say he should be in our test XI, etc, just giving an example here), similarly look at the performance bob woolmer managed to get out of shoaib malik by bringing him up the order, instilling confidence in him, etc (again - i'm not saying he is technically our test/odi first xi batsman, but shows another example of how to get more out of player).

i haven't really seen anything similar under Whatmore's tenure. Plus in ODIs he has hardly shown any innovation in strategy/approach and performance of team hasn't be good at all.
 
5 wickets away from what most certainly should be the end of a shambles of a tenure....will be elated to see the back of him should this be the case
 
time is surely up.....should have been sacked after his shameless comments after CT where he pretty much claimed there was nothing to worry about and other such garbage ...am sick of the sight of him....has been nothing but a shambles since taking over....has brought nothing to the team as coach....deserves to be thrown out in a humiliating manner for his pathetic tenure
 
Sack him already. What a cancer he has proven to be :facepalm:

Total flop. I know we'd have to pay him off if we fire him but it will be worth it.

This what you get when you appoint a guy who has spent the last 17 years coaching minnows and toddlers. Of course he will bring the minnow mentality.
 
A minnow coach is going to bring minnow results. No surprises there.

Secondly, sorry, I can't buy 17 year old achievements. They have zero relevance today.
 
Mamoon_ said:
A minnow coach is going to bring minnow results. No surprises there.

Secondly, sorry, I can't buy 17 year old achievements. They have zero relevance today.
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Yeah right...

Taylor: 'Finally beating a world class team is a wonderful feeling. We did not have a bowling coach for 6 months so much credit to the bowlers. Even though we won this Test match, we learned a lot from Pakistan. They're a professional unit. We wanted to give the pacers a breather. The new ball was available after lunch and that was a good factor for us. Test cricket is about winning sessions. You can never really relax with the quality of players they (Pakistan) have. It takes some character to come back after losing the first Test'.
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Neither is the coach.

I can see Whatmore lowering us to New Zealand's level and having us ranked 7th or something.
 
Dave will not and can not do anything if selection committee keeps selecting the way they have selected in last few years.... and Misbah keeps selecting his favorites!
 
Mamoon_ said:
Your point is?
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Point is.. that coach's role in cricket, at the highest level is over-hyped. It's not Whatmore bringing "minnow" results. It's the team.
Zimambwe had no bowling coach for 6 months.. by that logic, they should have got zero results..right ?
 
Mamoon_ said:
Neither is the coach.

I can see Whatmore lowering us to New Zealand's level and having us ranked 7th or something.
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Again. Did we lose to Zimbabwe???? You lose bragging rights the moment you get whipped by the Zimbabweans, no disrespect to them. That's an abyss which will take something of a miracle to crawl out of. Despite our rubbish team, we managed to draw test series in Oz, SL and win ODI series in England, South Africa not to mention beat Zimbabwe in test and ODI series away. We have atleast the excuse of smaller Talent pool to hide behind. What excuse do you got? The coach? Misbah? Or did your whole team get abducted by aliens and replaced by clones?
 
When you appoint a coach you expect him produce results.

Coach does have an important role. Are you telling me Kirsten had nothing to do with India's rise to the top?

Zimbabwe just won a Test. that doesn't make them a competent team. They'd probably have to wait for another decade to register a win over a major team so your point is not valid.

Whatmore has been an utter failure and he has proven to be a failure of a coach. period.
 
Our team needs an overhaul that is for sure, but some people are overreacting.

Losing to minnows is made to be a bigger deal in cricket than it really is.

Gosh, too much negativity till the SA series. Exactly a month to go.

Time for hibernation :>
 
Needs to be ousted NOW!!!!!!!!!!!

I know apologists will come and say well he has a coaching certificate so he must know somwthing but this guy has been a disaster from the onset. Most Pakistan's have inferiority complex and will never allow themself to believe that our own coache's Waqar Younis and Mohsin Khan were much better coaches and men managers than this "foreign coach" that everyone was going heads over hees to be hired. Should be the first person held accountable and ousted before the hammer comes down on the likes of Hafeez and so on.
 
Mamoon_ said:
When you appoint a coach you expect him produce results.

Coach does have an important role. Are you telling me Kirsten had nothing to do with India's rise to the top?

Zimbabwe just won a Test. that doesn't make them a competent team. They'd probably have to wait for another decade to register a win over a major team so your point is not valid.

Whatmore has been an utter failure and he has proven to be a failure of a coach. period.
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Sure, blame the coach. But bad coach can't give you minnow results on his own.
So.. at best, what you have here is a combo of minnow coach and minnow team leading to minnow results.
 
Time for Dav Whatmore to be shown the exit door

The team has gone absolutely nowhere since he has taken over at the helm.

What was a stable and well-settled Test team is now in tatters.

The batting lineup has never been this fragile.

No-one has been earmarked as a potential Misbah successor.

No consistency either way - experience or youngsters - in selection policy.

Results have been poor to downright embarrassing.


You can point fingers and blame the players/captain to a certain extent but this is the same set of players that was doing heroics and were on an upward path last year.

They have completely regressed and are all over in the place in the current regime.

I myself was a big admirer of Whatmore and I thought he would be good for us, but sadly that is not the case.
 
Awful coach. Has not done a thing with this team. Absolutely turned this team into a coward spineless bunch. Should be kicked out asap.
 
Agree that Whatmore needs to go for good! The batting has declined since he took over although part of that is also selection of certain players in the team (which also falls on him partially) but as a coach the least he could've done is incorporate a positive approach in the ODI & Test team but he has failed to do so!

Azhar & Shafiq, the 2 youngsters in whom PCB invested in last 3 years have not shown considerable progress especially the former. Jamshed has gone from being an aggressive, positive batsman to a meek one.
 
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Both whatmore and misbah should be shown the way out.I cant believe it that misbah still playing for us after mohali.
 
Keep him or sack him there won't be a big difference.

Lot of dollars can be saved though. Can be put to good use.
 
Ciskatachoon said:
He's tryin his best. What more can whatmore do ?
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no he isn't...and its clear he isn't .....haven't u heard the garbage that flows from this guys mouth about how the team is performing well and nothing is wrong? he makes me sick....
 
Well he only has few series left
SA series SL series Asia Cup Wt20 and his contract is over
 
when will the torture end of this buffoons tenure as coach.......am sick of the sight of him
 
I think this match was over even before a ball was bowled. When your coach says this a couple of days before the game, the opposition gets a clear signal that you are not going to try to win:

"One-nil is just as good as two-nil, and a hard fought draw is important for the team, and I don't mind not winning if we fight hard".

Very similar to India's 1999 tour to Australia. The then coach or the manager said something like: "We are really working very hard on our short ball weakness" two days before the test series. Result - we got whitewashed.
 
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^^

True, that's what I felt too.

Thing is though, he's not to blame for us getting out for 99 and giving our wickets away. We could have the best coach in the world and it won't make a difference. There's far too many changes in our current setup to even imply continuity, from players to board members and coaches.
 
Foreign Coaches dont do anything good, i think it's better to save our money and spend on something good
 
Moh@n said:
I think this match was over even before a ball was bowled. When your coach says this a couple of days before the game, the opposition gets a clear signal that you are not going to try to win:

"One-nil is just as good as two-nil, and a hard fought draw is important for the team, and I don't mind not winning if we fight hard".

Very similar to India's 1999 tour to Australia. The then coach or the manager said something like: "We are really working very hard on our short ball weakness" two days before the test series. Result - we got whitewashed.
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this....what a pathetic attitude and demonstrates this man has a complete losers mentality....he has ruined our team and deserves to be sacked in a most humiliating way
 
Apart from SL in his 1st spell whatmore hasnt done anything of note as a coach since, was a bad move to give him the job and hes pretty much sending the team even further backwards with his methods. Have to say were more united as a team when someone with no qualifications like Mohsin khan was with the team and that says it all!
 
A coach can only do so much when we have players playing stupid shots what can he do? most of our wickets were gifts to them, no one really applied themselves. How can you blame the coach in this situation ?
 
Thank you Mr. Whatmore I have been watching cricket for the last 30 years but your period as coach has been the worst by a mile
 
Amjid Javed said:
Apart from SL in his 1st spell whatmore hasnt done anything of note as a coach since, was a bad move to give him the job and hes pretty much sending the team even further backwards with his methods. Have to say were more united as a team when someone with no qualifications like Mohsin khan was with the team and that says it all!
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exactly. Compare it where Pakistan were with Mohsin Khan was the coach and where Pakistan are with Whatmore as coach. Its a big step backwards for Pakistan.
 
Whatmore out!

Whatmore has been one of the worst coach in Pakistan history. He has done nothing for Pakistan cricket at all. Pakistani team has actually gone worse since his arrival. We have not won a single test series. Lost to an unranked team, Zimbabwe, in a test match. Still have a pathetic performance in ODIs. He needs to go. We have given this guy enough time. He was a minnow team coach and the mentality carries forward and destroys our team which has gone so defensive and so hapless in their approach.
 
Whatmore cannot bat for your batsman.

Gary Kirsten could not make our trundlers bowl faster and more accurately. But he is hailed as a great coach.

Coach or Captain are only as good as their team.

Pak has tried a lot of coaches in the last decade. Has it changed the fortunes of your batting?
 
Yes, the batters cant bat because of whatmore. Whatmore told Shafiq to play that ugly hiok across the line.

If pakistanis looked at actual reasons to the problems, and tried to address them instead of trying to find scapegoats, pak cricket would be in a much betters stae
 
Its NOT the coach

The coach was not on the field when test batsmen attempted stupid shots and got out for a meager 99 runs. It is not the coach that made De Villiers and Graham Smith score centuries. If you are considered a professional, then you should use professional judgment and not attempt suicidal shots like most of the Pak batsmen.

No coach in the world can overcome this rash surge of blood to the brains...
 
mithun_minhas said:
Whatmore cannot bat for your batsman.

Gary Kirsten could not make our trundlers bowl faster and more accurately. But he is hailed as a great coach.

Coach or Captain are only as good as their team.

Pak has tried a lot of coaches in the last decade. Has it changed the fortunes of your batting?
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Then the whole concept of coaches is rubbish. Why even have coaches then if they cant change anything?

Maybe, Roman Abramvoich is an ass because when he changes bad managers of chelsea his team goes on to win Champions Leagues and premier leagues.
 
waqar_ahmad said:
Yes, the batters cant bat because of whatmore. Whatmore told Shafiq to play that ugly hiok across the line.

If pakistanis looked at actual reasons to the problems, and tried to address them instead of trying to find scapegoats, pak cricket would be in a much betters stae
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Whatmore is employed to fix that ugly hook across the line? Has he done anything to fix that? I dont see any improvement.

These actual problems are supposed to be fixed by a coach, thats what they are hired for. And whatmore is no scape goat. He is the coach. Responsible for team's performance.
 
Invasion 550 said:
Then the whole concept of coaches is rubbish. Why even have coaches then if they cant change anything?
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They're more involved with strategy and facilitation.

At international level, if you can't bat or bowl, and require coaching, then you shouldn't be playing. You hone your skills at domestic level and apply them at international level.
 
Invasion 550 said:
Then the whole concept of coaches is rubbish. Why even have coaches then if they cant change anything?

Maybe, Roman Abramvoich is an ass because when he changes bad managers of chelsea his team goes on to win Champions Leagues and premier leagues.
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Coach can fine tune a few things. He cannot teach the batsmen or bowlers how to hold a bat or bowl accurately with pace..

Yes, coaching is overrated. A coach can bring aggressiveness and help the batsmen or bowlers correct a few mistakes. He is not going to make Shafiq bat like Dravid or Ishant bowl like Ambrose.
 
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He has pushed the whole team into rubbish. Pakistan never look fired up as they used to with earlier coach. He is really a sust(lazy) coach, his comments "1-0 is as good as 2-0" show his mentality and that's how this casualness has settled into the players.
 
Jo_Don said:
They're more involved with strategy and facilitation.

At international level, if you can't bat or bowl, and require coaching, then you shouldn't be playing. You hone your skills at domestic level and apply them at international level.
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Nope they are not. Its the responsibility of team manager's to provide facilitation.


A coach is employed to fix those faults. Gary kristen is one great example, that guy not only led india to great heights but South Africa too.
 
Invasion 550 said:
Nope they are not. Its the responsibility of team manager's to provide facilitation.


A coach is employed to fix those faults. Gary kristen is one great example, that guy not only led india to great heights but South Africa too.
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Facilitating training sessions. And sure they might help fix minor faults, but not glaring technical glitches. That is up to the player.
 
mithun_minhas said:
Coach can fine tune a few things. He cannot teach the batsmen or bowlers how to hold a bat or bowl accurately with pace..

Yes, coaching is overrated. A coach can bring aggressiveness and help the batsmen or bowlers correct a few mistakes. He is not going to make Shafiq bat like Dravid or Ishant bowl like Ambrose.
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No one is asking the coach to teach the batsman on how to hold a bat or bowl. Its his responsibility to fix the technical faults that is that uglyish stroke some poster talked about above and there is improvement to be seen in that regard.

Well, you just agreed to my point in the second paragraph.
 
Jo_Don said:
Facilitating training sessions. And sure they might help fix minor faults, but not glaring technical glitches. That is up to the player.
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The ones with glaring technical glitches are let go like hafeez had to in tests. So, that in no way hides what a pathetic coach whatmore has been.
 
lol at all the people bringing up the irrelevant point of Whatmore not being able to bat for our batsmen.

Whatmore has been disappointing, not only because of the on field performances, but because there hasn't been any change in policies or team approach since he has taken over.

Basically, Dav Whatmore has brought absolutely nothing new to the table.

He needs to either start implementing some changes or make way for a new coach who will.
 
Pakistan batting issues is deep rooted. Cannot be change so quickly.

But I do agree :dav has been disappointing.
 
Whatmore has not achieved anything in his tenure. Team has shown no signs of improvement.
 
Whatmore out!

Even Bob Woolmer was unable to prevent a disaster (2007 WC). These guys are sometimes un-coachable. It's up to the players to learn from their mistakes.
 
Invasion 550 said:
The ones with glaring technical glitches are let go like hafeez had to in tests. So, that in no way hides what a pathetic coach whatmore has been.
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I disagree. Look at Smith - one of the worst techniques in the game, but he makes it work for him. It's all in the mind, and a coach cannot think for a player. If a player does not know his game at international level, then he should not be playing at it...
 
Invasion 550 said:
Whatmore is employed to fix that ugly hook across the line? Has he done anything to fix that? I dont see any improvement.

These actual problems are supposed to be fixed by a coach, thats what they are hired for. And whatmore is no scape goat. He is the coach. Responsible for team's performance.
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You don't fix technical problems at international level. The players need to go away and work on those deficiencies in first class cricket. It's not the fault of coach or captain if the selectors keep providing them with a bunch of mediocre players that have no desire to improve.
 
Whatmore is only one of several reasons behind our team's decline. To critisize Whatmore alone is unfair.

What about the players? Whatmore could have told them one thing but they could have done totally opposite.
You need batsmen with right attitude, technique, temperament, stamina, patience etc. How many of these qualities do you see in the current lot?

And then you have the selectors who also should take their part og the responsibility. Whatmore probably wanted another set of players but you know how our system works with politics, corruption and all that.

We do not have a good working board, it is all a mess.

We can only hope for better times InshaAllah.
 
Invasion 550 said:
Whatmore is employed to fix that ugly hook across the line? Has he done anything to fix that? I dont see any improvement.

These actual problems are supposed to be fixed by a coach, thats what they are hired for. And whatmore is no scape goat. He is the coach. Responsible for team's performance.
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Ok. Then please tell me how is whatmore supposed to "fix" that ugly hoik? In fact, tell how can ANYONE "fix" that ugly hoik?
 
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