How overrated is Pakistan's batting?

[Usman Chadda]

We cannot go to Australia with this batting line-up, Iftikhar and Khushdil are not good enough.

 

[hitthestump]

We cannot go to Australia with this batting line-up, Iftikhar and Khushdil are not good enough.

Let's hope Ramiz hasn't deleted Shoaib Malik's number. What are the chances Hafeez will come out of retirement for one last shindig?

In all seriousness Shan should come in but the other current alternative options to these guys are just as bad.

 

[cricketAXEpert]

Looking at the game tonight seeing complete different treatment given to this Afghanistan bowling which look associate levels. We almost lost and had to be bailed out by no.11 chasing mere 130. This makes me wonder how bad our batting is. When will Baber take charge as a match winner and own such mediocre bowling in a tight match. and when will our power hitters like F Zaman and Khushdil, Asif bury such attacks in sand. Until we don't become consistent batting side we are never winning any major tournament.

Afghanistan Bowling attack is not medicore, They have a world class Leg Spinner in Rashid Khan, Mohd Nabi & Mujeeb are decent spinners. Minnow level & medicore is Hong Kong's Attack.
As for the Batting Pakistan needs to find right balance, The have taken too many below par club level batsmen. The trio of Iftikhar, Kushdil and Asif Ali are too much of a burden. Only one of them should be in the side. not all 3. There is nobody to stablize the middle order.
We as a nation are obsessed with big hitters but a big hitter is useless without some consistency.

 

[Savak]

Pakistani batsmen in the middle struggle against spin and medium to quick bowlers who take pace off the ball and who bowl slower bouncers.

 

[KingOfPakBreakfast]

Yes and Babar+Rizwan opening

That’s where the problem begins

It’s the strategy mate. If we had a brilliant middle order, it would be the best strategy in the world. But when both of the top two fail, it completely falls apart.

Problem is, neither can play in the middle order, they both need field restrictions to score at an ok rate in the first 6.

There are ways around covering our weaknesses, but it’s needs some experimentation. Let me elaborate:

 

[KingOfPakBreakfast]

The current strategy of Babanco and Rizzy playing long is untenable. You’re asking both guys to perform 90% of the time, which is impossible.

The middle order is a problem.

Option 1:

One solution is that you start utilising Shadab higher up. Everyone knows that he’s wasted coming down at No. 7, with 2 overs to go. He has the ability to play the role Khushdil is currently struggling with. He takes a little bit of time, but has the ability to stick around and accelerate.

Haider can come in for Ifti. The reason, Ifti’s been given this incredible rope is because there are no clear replacements for Hafeez, and because Ifti played that one decent innings against Australia two years ago. I expect Shoaib Malik to be called up instead

Shan for Fakhar is much of a muchness and doesn’t seem like a big improvement. Either would do

Hilariously, Asif Ali doesn’t have any direct replacements not called Umar Akmal. So Asif Ali stays

 

[KingOfPakBreakfast]

Option 2:

I absolutely don’t expect this, but you can try something different.

Fakhar gets dropped, one of Babar or Rizwan comes one down and the boy Haris opens.

Ifti is dropped, Haider plays at 4, shadab at 5 and Asif Ali at 6.

Haris, Haider and Asif are told to play with freedom, whilst Babar, Rizzy and Shadab can play with responsibility.

This also allows you to play with the extra bowler

 

[KingOfPakBreakfast]

Point is, Pakistan actually still have the room to experiment. There’s a 7 match series with England and a mini tourney w/ NZ and Bangla in NZ where we play each team twice plus maybe the finals.

That’s between 11 to 12 games before the World Cup warmups. Using this games to hope that Khushdil/Ifti come into some form would be questionable, when u can try other solutions.

 

[SamNJ]

Strange that when thread was opened day before nobody agreed but now almost everyone is on same page.

 

[Rajdeep]

Why couldn't you bat like this against us?

Just like Afghanistan raise their game only against you, you raise your game only against us.

What are you talking about?

They got all out for 147 against us in first game and got bounced out by Pandya of all people. They were tattering at 128/9 at one stage and only reached 147 bcoz tailenders smacked couple.

I don't rate a batting line up when batting second in Dubai. It gives a false impression. Nowhere in planet green earth would SL chase down 173 by just losing 4 wickets against India unless it is on this particular venue. I mean we have played SL enough and know where they stand.

India scored 181, 173, 192 & 212 in 4 games we batted first here and still out of finals in a 5-tournament team. Not sure what else a team should do batting first in a T20 game. Anyone thinks toss does not play a part here has got no clue about cricket.

 

[Shaddy86]

What are you talking about?

They got all out for 147 against us in first game and got bounced out by Pandya of all people. They were tattering at 128/9 at one stage and only reached 147 bcoz tailenders smacked couple.

I don't rate a batting line up when batting second in Dubai. It gives a false impression. Nowhere in planet green earth would SL chase down 173 by just losing 4 wickets against India unless it is on this particular venue. I mean we have played SL enough and know where they stand.

India scored 181, 173, 192 & 212 in 4 games we batted first here and still out of finals in a 5-tournament team. Not sure what else a team should do batting first in a T20 game. Anyone thinks toss does not play a part here has got no clue about cricket.

Yes because cricket is all about batting and has nothing to do with bowling, fielding and strategy. Just go bat and then expect trundlers to somehow defend that score. You Indians are so dillusional. Both india-Pak games were close finishes. Had Pakistan scored 10 extra runs in the first match they would have defended it. Stop crying about the Toss and fix your bowling instead.

 

[Rajdeep]

Yes because cricket is all about batting and has nothing to do with bowling, fielding and strategy. Just go bat and then expect trundlers to somehow defend that score. You Indians are so dillusional. Both india-Pak games were close finishes. Had Pakistan scored 10 extra runs in the first match they would have defended it. Stop crying about the Toss and fix your bowling instead.

Well, that is the point right. India bowled first only once this tournament and had the opposition tattering at 128/9. For all the remaining games India batted first and posted above avg T20 totals and yet couldn't defend it. 19 out of 20 games played by top teams here has been won by teams bowling first. All of these shows batting second is a huge advantage in this venue and toss played a massive factor. It's not only Indians are delusional here but rather it's a proven fact. If batting first or second is not a factor, why no captain that wins the toss here opts to bat first?

 

[ethan hunt]

What are you talking about?

They got all out for 147 against us in first game and got bounced out by Pandya of all people. They were tattering at 128/9 at one stage and only reached 147 bcoz tailenders smacked couple.

I don't rate a batting line up when batting second in Dubai. It gives a false impression. Nowhere in planet green earth would SL chase down 173 by just losing 4 wickets against India unless it is on this particular venue. I mean we have played SL enough and know where they stand.

India scored 181, 173, 192 & 212 in 4 games we batted first here and still out of finals in a 5-tournament team. Not sure what else a team should do batting first in a T20 game. Anyone thinks toss does not play a part here has got no clue about cricket.

Maybe bowl well for a change? Failing to defend back to back 180 plus scores is a poor effort. There is no dew.

 

[Ozeirk]

What are you talking about?

They got all out for 147 against us in first game and got bounced out by Pandya of all people. They were tattering at 128/9 at one stage and only reached 147 bcoz tailenders smacked couple.

I don't rate a batting line up when batting second in Dubai. It gives a false impression. Nowhere in planet green earth would SL chase down 173 by just losing 4 wickets against India unless it is on this particular venue. I mean we have played SL enough and know where they stand.

India scored 181, 173, 192 & 212 in 4 games we batted first here and still out of finals in a 5-tournament team. Not sure what else a team should do batting first in a T20 game. Anyone thinks toss does not play a part here has got no clue about cricket.

You are completely taking the bowling out of the equation. India scored so many runs but in the end the bowlers were not able to defend it. They were not able to handle the pressure of India Pakistan game. After losing to Pakistan in super 4s Indian team were psychologically dented that led to their loss against SriLankans the next match. Same thing happened to them the last world Cup when they lost to new Zealand. The same pattern will repeat if India lose to Pakistan in the next world Cup, it will take a lot of character for them to pick themselves up from there.

 

[Rajdeep]

You are completely taking the bowling out of the equation. India scored so many runs but in the end the bowlers were not able to defend it. They were not able to handle the pressure of India Pakistan game. After losing to Pakistan in super 4s Indian team were psychologically dented that led to their loss against SriLankans the next match. Same thing happened to them the last world Cup when they lost to new Zealand. The same pattern will repeat if India lose to Pakistan in the next world Cup, it will take a lot of character for them to pick themselves up from there.

Please check post #92 where I responded on this point. I am not taking bowling out of equation

 

[sweep_shot]

I don't think Pakistani batting is overrated. It is quite good currently.

Babar, Rizwan, Fakhar, and Imam - that's a world class top order.

Asif can get the job done as we have seen against India. Khushdil is new and should be given time.

Shadab is a genuine all-rounder.

Only weak link is probably Iftikhar.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Don’t know who is overrating Pakistan’s batting.

We have seen enough in the last 2 years that when Babar fails, Pakistan struggles. Exactly what’s happening right now.

Pakistan is where it should be.

In a 10 top teams shootout over a season like premier league, Pakistan will end up at a respectable 4th and 3rd if they punch above their weight. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[zamana]

Pakistan is a nothing team.

Garbage batting unit, overrated bowling unit - no world class spinner, only one world class fast bowler who cannot bowl at the death (Shaheen), and sloppy in the field.

India should be embarrassed of losing a match to this joker team.

India must really be a very poor side to consistently lose to Pakistan. They were stunned in the Champions Trophy 2017. It would be analagous to a " Knock out". India were again knocked to the floor last year in the WT20 match. Have you forgotten the ten wicket drubbing that India received. They looked like a group of school kids who were in a daze. Your memory is short-lived as you seem to have forgotten the loss by India a few days ago. Either your comprehension of cricket is extremely poor or you are still traumatised by the blows you have suffered. Be respectful when you talk about the Pakistani team and the Pakistani nation.

 

[Raja Ishtiaq]

It was pretty obvious to me and others that Afghanistan were deliberately underperforming against India.

Using that match as a example to critique our batsmen is nothing short of disgraceful in my opinion.

 

[Shaddy86]

Well, that is the point right. India bowled first only once this tournament and had the opposition tattering at 128/9. For all the remaining games India batted first and posted above avg T20 totals and yet couldn't defend it. 19 out of 20 games played by top teams here has been won by teams bowling first. All of these shows batting second is a huge advantage in this venue and toss played a massive factor. It's not only Indians are delusional here but rather it's a proven fact. If batting first or second is not a factor, why no captain that wins the toss here opts to bat first?

You don't cry about your rank turners at home or batting last in a test match or playing under lights when there's dew. All these scenarios put teams losing a toss at much worse disadvantage than the current conditions this tournaments is played in. Batting second gives you a target to aim at hence making it easier, India should have scored much more than they have in this tournament batting first. Conceding 150+ to a Hong Kong team speaks volumes about the Indian bowling line up, which is the main issue here. Btw they did manage some amazing figures against Afghanistan bowling SECOND! What happened to your Theory of losing the toss there then? They're no Hong Kong although as mentioned above even the Hong Kong handed out some whooping to your trundlers.

Pakistan has had issues with their batting since forever really, batting first or second is pretty much the same otherwise they'd have chased that total against Afghans with much more ease. Pakistan practically lost a game chasing if it weren't for a once in a life time miracle by Naseem Shah. So your theory of batting second giving a massive advantage is debunked.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Well, that is the point right. India bowled first only once this tournament and had the opposition tattering at 128/9. For all the remaining games India batted first and posted above avg T20 totals and yet couldn't defend it. 19 out of 20 games played by top teams here has been won by teams bowling first. All of these shows batting second is a huge advantage in this venue and toss played a massive factor. It's not only Indians are delusional here but rather it's a proven fact. If batting first or second is not a factor, why no captain that wins the toss here opts to bat first?

Your first mistake is thinking 170-180 is an above average score in Dubai

 

[Saj]

Selectors should pick Imad Wasim ahead of one of the 3 so-called middle-order finishers. He is consistent and reliable with the ball and will get you at least as many runs as any of them.

 

[Raja Ishtiaq]

Selectors should pick Imad Wasim ahead of one of the 3 so-called middle-order finishers. He is consistent and reliable with the ball and will get you at least as many runs as any of them.

On what basis does the poor performance of those batsmen justify the inclusion of Imad?

Are there better spin bowling options than Imad? Yes. Two are already in the team.

Are there better batsmen than Imad? An emphatic Yes!.

You seem intent on including Imad in the team when there is absolutely no need for him lol

 

[Rana]

Selectors should pick Imad Wasim ahead of one of the 3 so-called middle-order finishers. He is consistent and reliable with the ball and will get you at least as many runs as any of them.

Imad Wasim and Shoaib Malik are major upgrades to Khushdil and Iftikhar

Asif Ali is a must

 

[Rana]

Fakhar
Rizwan
Babar
Malik
Nawaz
Shadab
Asif
Imad
Shaheen
Naseem
Rauf


Best XI we can hope for I recon

 

[Ami]

I see a certain name here and I wanna move onto another thread...lol

 

[MRSN]

Today Rizwan shows why he is called a statspadder. Not a match winner. Terrible player.

 

[MRSN]

One of the worst batting display I have seen.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Who rates it?. T20 in 2019 they looked good on dead tracks

 

[asfandyar]

Fakhar, Ifti, Asif, Khushdil are awful. Haider Ali and Shan Masood are being glorified because they are not in the team, but they are also in the formers' league. Babar and Rizwan have ridden the accumulation train to being ranked number 1 and 2, but they get found out if the score is over 150.

 

[daytrader]

Wasim Akram "Pakistan are to play 7 T20Is against England and they need to change the middle-order and maybe bring in someone like Shan Masood and Shoaib Malik"

 

[Rana]

Wasim Akram "Pakistan are to play 7 T20Is against England and they need to change the middle-order and maybe bring in someone like Shan Masood and Shoaib Malik"

Shan Masood is from the school of Babar and Rizwan

Go ahead. Further take back our cricket to the Middle Ages

 

[Bewal Express]

As I said before you can't pick 2 batsman and expect to win against good teams. Khusdil is a terrible player, AA hits 80mph bowlers bowling length, and Chacha has no game at the international level. They replace Malik a guy that turned mediocrity into an art and Hafeez, a guy that got a nose bleed at the mention of pressure. So what that tells you is that we have poor batsman and that ain't changing any time soon.

 

[Mamoon]

Fluke over.

Pakistan had no business playing the final - Naseem’s fluke sixes cost India the Asia Cup.

 

[MRSN]

On this flat pitch they are struggling to play big shots. Incredible. UAE may be excused for slow pitches but this is home.

 

[MRSN]

Also the more I watch this batting especially Rizwan more I am convinced that they bat more for their averages and stats rather team. You know Eng has been posting 200 every game and yet you seem content posting total around 180 with all wickets in hand on this pitch.

 

[MRSN]

One year later and our batting is still struggling. This time our spin department and most importantly bowling backups are also being exposed. Looks like this team is in the hands of some rookie people who have non idea how to run an international cricket team. There's no spin alternatives, t20 bowling replacements for ODI matches and batting is not fixed. This is just before we enter into the mega tournament.

I also consider Baber part of the problem as well. It was also his duty to have some backup options and should have tried bench strengths in home games and other teams like Afghanistan.

 

[Bhaijaan]

This is one of the best batting lineups Pakistan has had since mid 2000s

 

[Rana]

Agreed remove Babar and Rizwan it’s minnow level.

Might have to do so

 

[Rana]

This is one of the best batting lineups Pakistan has had since mid 2000s

Oh nice

What was the second best?

 

[Ali T]

I think there are a couple of adjustments needed, but all in all our batting line up is really not as bad as some posters claim it to be.

Fakhar Zaman seems over the hill these days. Hard to predict if it's just bad form or whether it's something he can bounce back from. Regardless, he probably shouldn't play in the world cup.

We do, however, have a few good batsmen:
- Rizwan
- Chacha
- Babar
- Imam

Although Abdullah Shafiq scored a 50, he was looking a tad nervous and hasn't been tested enough. Additionally, he hasn't managed to fix his weakness of the ball coming into him. I would still be tempted to open with him and Imam in the WC.

Saud Shakeel - wish he got more chances to play leading up to the world cup. He seems a good batsmen with a great List A record but was more interested to see if he has the 3rd or 4th gear or whether he is an accumulator like Babar / Imam.

Few problems
1. Wonder if our batsmen have what it takes compete in high scoring games as we have too many accumulators
2. Majority of our batsmen have a weakness against spin which could put us at a disadvantage going into the world cup.
3. Lack of strike rotation (at least against Sri Lanka)

 

[kron]

We have a delusional fan base that gets carried away only to be brought back to earth with a brutal reality-check.

I think the next WT20 would be the 2018 Asia Cup for Pakistani fans in terms of getting a brutal reality-check.

I believe our bowling is good. Maybe not as good as England Australia and India but not far away. Pacers anyway.
Our spinners are downright atrocious. Need wasim (imad) and abrar. Our last hope.

Batting for t20 is good but not for odi. Seems limited.
We still seem to be searching for power hitters.

 

[Mamoon]

I believe our bowling is good. Maybe not as good as England Australia and India but not far away. Pacers anyway.
Our spinners are downright atrocious. Need wasim (imad) and abrar. Our last hope.

Batting for t20 is good but not for odi. Seems limited.
We still seem to be searching for power hitters.

I think Pakistan’s current top 3 is the most reliable and consistent top 3 they have ever had in ODIs.

I have seen a lot worse at the top from Pakistan. However, it is all about relative strength.

There is some serious ODI batting talent in world cricket right now. All the major teams have exceptional top order players and they are better than the ones Pakistan have.

 

[hassan918]

Pakistani openers have been struggling to score at quick pace during the first 10 overs and that has been a big problem for the team. This is how our openers have performed in ODI cricket since Champions Trophy 2017.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Pakistani openers have been struggling to score at quick pace during the first 10 overs and that has been a big problem for the team. This is how our openers have performed in ODI cricket since Champions Trophy 2017.

Pathetic figures - espcially in the case of imam and babar who always play risk free cricket in PP.

With fakhar, yes he needs to take less time getting himself in. Difference is he can make up for his slow starts pretty quickly in middle or end off inns. The others don't

 

[Rana]

Agreed remove Babar and Rizwan it’s minnow level.

Maybe that’s truly the way forward

 

[mominsaigol]

Pathetic figures - espcially in the case of imam and babar who always play risk free cricket in PP.

With fakhar, yes he needs to take less time getting himself in. Difference is he can make up for his slow starts pretty quickly in middle or end off inns. The others don't

80 sr at opening and making it up with a solid 120 to 140 sr at the backend is pretty solid from fakhar tbf