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How SHOULD the state deal with TLP and other similar elements in the society?

Abdullah719

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Khadim Rizvi and others create a massive ruckus anytime something happens that they 'perceive' to be offensive or against Islam. It usually starts with sit-ins and dharnas and eventually escalates to violence and destruction.

The methods used in recent times haven't bore fruit. TLP and other groups seem to be on the rise. What is the solution?

Seen a lot of suggestions but there doesn't seem to be a consensus on this.

Please try and give serious suggestions and have a proper discussion rather than engaging in ridiculous POVs, trolling and point scoring.
 
ban all their communications, that's the only way they can propagate and mobilize. Don't let them have any access to phone or internet.
 
I am against any solution that will cause violence and deaths of (naive/ignorant) followers of Khadim.

Find any dirt on him, find a way to ridicule him, discredit (if you listen to him his speak than that should be enough to discredit him), anything that could put him in bad light for the people who are naive.

Promote scholars who are legit and use the same terminology as government, judiciary and army.
 
I am against any solution that will cause violence and deaths of (naive/ignorant) followers of Khadim.

Find any dirt on him, find a way to ridicule him, discredit (if you listen to him his speak than that should be enough to discredit him), anything that could put him in bad light for the people who are naive.

Promote scholars who are legit and use the same terminology as government, judiciary and army.

With every promotion, guards eventually turn into offenders.

We need a separate force dedicated to management of sit-ins. A force with authority and without political interference. Roughly 200 Highly trained Negotiators and 2000 riot force recruits.Negotiators should include members representing different socio-religious groups.

Else we need CCTV with no 100 metre stretch without surveillance.
 
With every promotion, guards eventually turn into offenders.

We need a separate force dedicated to management of sit-ins. A force with authority and without political interference. Roughly 200 Highly trained Negotiators and 2000 riot force recruits.Negotiators should include members representing different socio-religious groups.

Else we need CCTV with no 100 metre stretch without surveillance.

I like your post about an elite force to deal with these Criminals.
 
ISI should do what they did with TTP.

Infiltrate the organisation, create groupings/factions to undermine them from within, buy off the people who can be bought off and deal with an iron fist those who defy the authority of the state.
 
With every promotion, guards eventually turn into offenders.

We need a separate force dedicated to management of sit-ins. A force with authority and without political interference. Roughly 200 Highly trained Negotiators and 2000 riot force recruits.Negotiators should include members representing different socio-religious groups.

Else we need CCTV with no 100 metre stretch without surveillance.

undercover riot police that can pose as supporters can also be used to penetrate their protests.
 
Inciting violence, destruction of public property and challenging the writ of the state. The man should be behind bars. PTI seems to be have a soft spot for right wing clerics and give in rather easily to any demands put forth by such people.
 
The state very effectively sidelined and finished Altaf Hussain. They started off by complete media ban of AH, any major news channel showing even a shred of news related to him faced a ban. So much so that once gangster Altaf has been reduced to a comedy figure in the social media and only good for memes.

Then a comprehensive cleansing operation was undertaken to arrest anyone even remotely associated with the ideology of Altaf. This has been very efficient and completely finished him and his politics.


I'm sure if same criteria is applied against Khadim Rizvi then within a year or so TLP will be thrown in the dustbin of history.
 
Rehabilitative justice is needed. Put the violent protestors behind bars. Bring the victims of their violence forward and let them remind the perpetrators of the damages they have caused to their fellow citizens. Make their release subject to the forgiveness of the victims. Make sure that the victims are not forced, coerced or manipulated to forgive the violent protestors. Provide education and professional training to the perpetrators so that when they come out of their prisons they are de-radicalised, educated and productive members of the society.
It may not be easy but it’s possibly a long term solution.
 
The problem with our criminal justice system is that it is highly punitive. Once we start moving towards a rehabilitative form of criminal justice system we will have more sophisticated outcomes. Right now, sending a first time criminal to jail is the worst thing to do. They only learn more crimes when they are processed through the system. We need jail reforms and better overall criminal justice infrastructure. We also need to encourage healthy police-public relationship. Ppl don’t trust police right now. We need to reduce that trust deficit. We also need to improve the conditions in prison. There are too few prisons and too many offenders.
 
Like others have said, infiltrate, find dirt and put away a couple of people. These people are jahils who can easily be manipulated so there should be a special task force to oversee the moulvis and keep a check on them.
 
The problem with our criminal justice system is that it is highly punitive. Once we start moving towards a rehabilitative form of criminal justice system we will have more sophisticated outcomes. Right now, sending a first time criminal to jail is the worst thing to do. They only learn more crimes when they are processed through the system. We need jail reforms and better overall criminal justice infrastructure. We also need to encourage healthy police-public relationship. Ppl don’t trust police right now. We need to reduce that trust deficit. We also need to improve the conditions in prison. There are too few prisons and too many offenders.

Yeah, forgive first time offenders so they have a second chance to offend...

That's the problem with liberals all over, care more about criminals than the victims.
 
Education and prosperity which will take a concerted effort and can take a couple of decades.

Alternatively bang them up and as Angrez ����, educate them in jail
 
Rehabilitative justice is needed. Put the violent protestors behind bars. Bring the victims of their violence forward and let them remind the perpetrators of the damages they have caused to their fellow citizens. Make their release subject to the forgiveness of the victims. Make sure that the victims are not forced, coerced or manipulated to forgive the violent protestors. Provide education and professional training to the perpetrators so that when they come out of their prisons they are de-radicalised, educated and productive members of the society.
It may not be easy but it’s possibly a long term solution.

Agree with this. Extremism won't end by throwing people in jail and killing a few terrorists. The ideology must be destroyed at its core. Rehabilitative sentences are one of many ways to do this. If they are going to spend some time in jail, might as well make the most of it, and provide them with some sort of education. This education should include religious education, where the extremist views are "replaced" by more mainstream moderate views.
 
Agree with this. Extremism won't end by throwing people in jail and killing a few terrorists. The ideology must be destroyed at its core. Rehabilitative sentences are one of many ways to do this. If they are going to spend some time in jail, might as well make the most of it, and provide them with some sort of education. This education should include religious education, where the extremist views are "replaced" by more mainstream moderate views.
That’s my point. It’s not about being lenient on the offenders. It’s about giving them the wherewithal’s to survive and live a dignified crime free life, once they get out of prison. It’s about making them see the errors of their ways.
 
There is no real short-term fix to deal with these people. They are a result of a whole decade of radicalization in the 80s. What needs to be done though is:

1.) Media ban on ALL mullahs/preachers EXCEPT those that are authorised by the state.

2.) All jummah khutbas to be issued by the state, one jummah khutbah to be read all across Pakistan. Of course, we have many sects in Pakistan, so khutbah should carry the same message BUT should be flavoured slightly differently for Shia and Sunni mosques.

3.) Mosques, madrassahs, and seminaries ALL under state control/supervision. Curriculum, khutbas contents, etc should all go through checks for extreme content by the state. No mosque should be allowed to recieve foreign funding, this is to prevente exremist Islam, and political Islam, such as Saudi wahabbi ideologies and "Khamenei/Iran worshipping" wilayatul faqih Shia ideologies, from entering Pakistan.

4.) Establish Sunni and Shia seminaries across Pakistan which will issue qualifications to become a Maulana. No one should be allowed to preach without a valid qualification from a recognized seminary.

5.) Arrest all those who protest violently. Change jails from being punishment focused, to being rehabilitation focused. Prisoners should be educated with basic literacy requirements, Islam (if they are Muslim), and should also recieve some sort of professional training. They should also be assisted in finding work upon their release.

6.) ALL kids need to go to school, there should be no kids out of school. Pakistan must make 100% literacy a top priority. Madrassahs need to be mainstreamed to teach regular subjects, and all Islamic curriculum should be controlled by the state.

7.) Establish technical colleges across Pakistan to give people skilled training. This should be marketed as a viable alternative to traditional universities and should be targetted at the lower class.

8.) Create jobs across Pakistan so that there are less unemployed people, and hence, fewer people sitting around all day and thinking too much for their own good.

9.) ISI need to carry out a massive operation to infiltrate all these groups such as TLP, MMA, etc, create discontent, and bring down their top leadership one by one. Destroy them from within, expose them, turn them into a disgrace in the eyes of the public.

10.) Council of Islamic Ideology needs to be useful now, and start promoting a moderate Islam to counter the TLP and extremist agenda. The recent campaign for women's inheritance was a great step, and more things like that need to be promoted on mass media such as TV, radio, billboards, internet ads, etc. They must use the Mullahs they have on board to issue statements and counter the extremist narrative using Islam. The only way extemism can be countered is by using a language that Pakistanis understand, and the vast majority of Pakistanis understand the "language of Islam/religion".
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A massive 75% of Pakistani adults support the blasphemy law, with nearly two thirds of them saying they support it as is while one third saying they support it with amendments in implementation and fine print. <a href="https://t.co/Z2g60QQcPq">pic.twitter.com/Z2g60QQcPq</a></p>— Roshan Pakistan Opinion Polling (@RoshanOpinion) <a href="https://twitter.com/RoshanOpinion/status/1059288917114019845?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 5, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">In what is the trend on most questions we asked for our special poll, 35% of respondents agree with the Supreme Court's decision to acquit Asia Bibi, 43% do not. <a href="https://t.co/4Hv51sQS1d">pic.twitter.com/4Hv51sQS1d</a></p>— Roshan Pakistan Opinion Polling (@RoshanOpinion) <a href="https://twitter.com/RoshanOpinion/status/1059291252565393409?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 5, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">In terms of party affiliation, 38% of PTI, 31% of PML(N), 49% of PPPP, 0% of TLP and 32% of OTH supporters support the acquittal. <a href="https://t.co/hzLFkNxCmi">https://t.co/hzLFkNxCmi</a></p>— Roshan Pakistan Opinion Polling (@RoshanOpinion) <a href="https://twitter.com/RoshanOpinion/status/1059292621527543808?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 5, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">PTI supporters evenly split on Supreme Court's decision, PML(N) and TLP supporters opposing, while PPPP supporters support the decision. <a href="https://t.co/hqnclSC4WA">pic.twitter.com/hqnclSC4WA</a></p>— Roshan Pakistan Opinion Polling (@RoshanOpinion) <a href="https://twitter.com/RoshanOpinion/status/1059295587022049281?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 5, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Regarding the above polls, I get the feeling that a lot of the "not sures" and maybe even some of the nos actually mean "I support the supreme court's decision, but I value my life more than giving you my true opinion".

IMO, it's probably not possible to get an accurate result on this issue, many people would be too scared to say that they support the SC verdict.
 
There is no real short-term fix to deal with these people. They are a result of a whole decade of radicalization in the 80s. What needs to be done though is:

1.) Media ban on ALL mullahs/preachers EXCEPT those that are authorised by the state.

2.) All jummah khutbas to be issued by the state, one jummah khutbah to be read all across Pakistan. Of course, we have many sects in Pakistan, so khutbah should carry the same message BUT should be flavoured slightly differently for Shia and Sunni mosques.

3.) Mosques, madrassahs, and seminaries ALL under state control/supervision. Curriculum, khutbas contents, etc should all go through checks for extreme content by the state. No mosque should be allowed to recieve foreign funding, this is to prevente exremist Islam, and political Islam, such as Saudi wahabbi ideologies and "Khamenei/Iran worshipping" wilayatul faqih Shia ideologies, from entering Pakistan.

4.) Establish Sunni and Shia seminaries across Pakistan which will issue qualifications to become a Maulana. No one should be allowed to preach without a valid qualification from a recognized seminary.

5.) Arrest all those who protest violently. Change jails from being punishment focused, to being rehabilitation focused. Prisoners should be educated with basic literacy requirements, Islam (if they are Muslim), and should also recieve some sort of professional training. They should also be assisted in finding work upon their release.

6.) ALL kids need to go to school, there should be no kids out of school. Pakistan must make 100% literacy a top priority. Madrassahs need to be mainstreamed to teach regular subjects, and all Islamic curriculum should be controlled by the state.

7.) Establish technical colleges across Pakistan to give people skilled training. This should be marketed as a viable alternative to traditional universities and should be targetted at the lower class.

8.) Create jobs across Pakistan so that there are less unemployed people, and hence, fewer people sitting around all day and thinking too much for their own good.

9.) ISI need to carry out a massive operation to infiltrate all these groups such as TLP, MMA, etc, create discontent, and bring down their top leadership one by one. Destroy them from within, expose them, turn them into a disgrace in the eyes of the public.

10.) Council of Islamic Ideology needs to be useful now, and start promoting a moderate Islam to counter the TLP and extremist agenda. The recent campaign for women's inheritance was a great step, and more things like that need to be promoted on mass media such as TV, radio, billboards, internet ads, etc. They must use the Mullahs they have on board to issue statements and counter the extremist narrative using Islam. The only way extemism can be countered is by using a language that Pakistanis understand, and the vast majority of Pakistanis understand the "language of Islam/religion".

Yes. Exactly. Very good points.
 
There is no real short-term fix to deal with these people. They are a result of a whole decade of radicalization in the 80s. What needs to be done though is:

1.) Media ban on ALL mullahs/preachers EXCEPT those that are authorised by the state.

2.) All jummah khutbas to be issued by the state, one jummah khutbah to be read all across Pakistan. Of course, we have many sects in Pakistan, so khutbah should carry the same message BUT should be flavoured slightly differently for Shia and Sunni mosques.

3.) Mosques, madrassahs, and seminaries ALL under state control/supervision. Curriculum, khutbas contents, etc should all go through checks for extreme content by the state. No mosque should be allowed to recieve foreign funding, this is to prevente exremist Islam, and political Islam, such as Saudi wahabbi ideologies and "Khamenei/Iran worshipping" wilayatul faqih Shia ideologies, from entering Pakistan.

4.) Establish Sunni and Shia seminaries across Pakistan which will issue qualifications to become a Maulana. No one should be allowed to preach without a valid qualification from a recognized seminary.

5.) Arrest all those who protest violently. Change jails from being punishment focused, to being rehabilitation focused. Prisoners should be educated with basic literacy requirements, Islam (if they are Muslim), and should also recieve some sort of professional training. They should also be assisted in finding work upon their release.

6.) ALL kids need to go to school, there should be no kids out of school. Pakistan must make 100% literacy a top priority. Madrassahs need to be mainstreamed to teach regular subjects, and all Islamic curriculum should be controlled by the state.

7.) Establish technical colleges across Pakistan to give people skilled training. This should be marketed as a viable alternative to traditional universities and should be targetted at the lower class.

8.) Create jobs across Pakistan so that there are less unemployed people, and hence, fewer people sitting around all day and thinking too much for their own good.

9.) ISI need to carry out a massive operation to infiltrate all these groups such as TLP, MMA, etc, create discontent, and bring down their top leadership one by one. Destroy them from within, expose them, turn them into a disgrace in the eyes of the public.

10.) Council of Islamic Ideology needs to be useful now, and start promoting a moderate Islam to counter the TLP and extremist agenda. The recent campaign for women's inheritance was a great step, and more things like that need to be promoted on mass media such as TV, radio, billboards, internet ads, etc. They must use the Mullahs they have on board to issue statements and counter the extremist narrative using Islam. The only way extemism can be countered is by using a language that Pakistanis understand, and the vast majority of Pakistanis understand the "language of Islam/religion".

Brilliant suggestions.

Number 1 priority should be modern education.
 
Media blackout. Shut down their social media accounts.

These hypocrites for all their hatred of the West, using Western tools to mobilize their organisation.

Black them out, give them no importance. Go down the Altaf Hussain route with these guys.
 
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