How strong was the Pakistani batting line up of the 1970s? Best of last 50 years?

[Harsh Thakor]

The Pakistani batting line up of the 1970's towards the end was one of the strongest ever in the history of the game.In my view it was even better than those of West Indies and Australia of that time and similar to South Africa in 1970 with so many allrounders.To me the best batting line up of the last 50 years.

The likes of Majid Khan,Zaheer Abbas,Javed Miandad,Wasim Raja,Asif Iqbal ,Mushtaq Muhammad and Imran Khan all together made it like a mighty army.Majid and Zaheer were supreme stylists.Asif,Javed,Raja and Mushtaq were the ultimate street fighters with the bat.No doubt Javed was also a great craftsman and Asif and Wasim had a languid grace in their strokes.

At that time Majid was one of the finest batsmen against pace bowling while on flat tracks Zaheer was the best.Never forget Zaheer was prolific in Australia in 1976-77.Asif was brilliant in that very serise averaging over 78 with 2 centuries.Wasim Raja performed better than nay batsmen against West Indies averaging over 57.Mushtaq also had scored centuries against both Australia and West Indies.

Wasim Bari was no mug with the bat while Imran was one of the most handy.No team had as good a combination at no6,7 and 8 as Pakistan with Asif,Raja and Imran.

No team performed as well facing the great Carribean pace quartet in West Indies as Pakistan.


I rate this batting line up marginally ahead of India's in the mid 1980's ,Pakistan in the 1980's and 19990's or even India in 2001-2005 or Australia in the same period.


Majid Khan
Sadiq Muhammad
Zaheer Abbas
Javed Miandad
Asif Iqbal
Mushtaq Muhammad (C)
Wasim Raja
Imran Khan
Sarafraz Nawaz
Wasim Bari (W)
Iqbal Qasim

 

[BoomBoomCricket]

Pakistan never won a Test Match against England between 1954-1982 even at home.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Pakistan never won a Test Match against England between 1954-1982 even at home.

I am discussing merits of pure batting.See Pakistan's performance against the best attacks in that period and it's depth

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Pakistan never won a Test Match against England between 1954-1982 even at home.

Remember test wins in Australia and West Indies of Pakistan.No team played better in West Indies at their best.

 

[Ab Fan]

Was it better than these two sides?

Langer
Hayden
Ponting
Martyn
S Waugh
Katich
Gilchrist (wkt)

Sehwag
Gambhir
Dravid
Tendulkar
Laxman
Ganguly(c)
Dhoni(wkt)

 

[Ab Fan]

And also this one

Smith
A Petersen
Amla
Kallis
de Villiers
Prince
Boucher(wkt)

 

[KB]

Majid Khan
Sadiq Muhammad
Zaheer Abbas
Javed Miandad
Asif Iqbal
Mushtaq Muhammad (C)
Wasim Raja
Imran Khan
Sarafraz Nawaz
Wasim Bari (W)
Iqbal Qasim

A couple of points strike me looking at this list. This was the first generation of players that had gained extensive county cricket experience. Regular cricket, experience of different conditions and exposure to a more formal and professional set-up, is likely to have contributed greatly to the development of the batsmen.

Secondly, whilst the quality and stylishness of Pakistan’s batting in the 1970s stands out, nevertheless, even in that decade Pakistani batting was susceptible to disintegration in critical situations. It was in this decade that the appellation ‘Panickstan’ was first used after a 4th innings collapse in Australia, which was by no means an isolated event in the decade. It is in fact a theme that reappears over and over in Imran Khan's autobiography.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

A couple of points strike me looking at this list. This was the first generation of players that had gained extensive county cricket experience. Regular cricket, experience of different conditions and exposure to a more formal and professional set-up, is likely to have contributed greatly to the development of the batsmen.

Secondly, whilst the quality and stylishness of Pakistan’s batting in the 1970s stands out, nevertheless, even in that decade Pakistani batting was susceptible to disintegration in critical situations. It was in this decade that the appellation ‘Panickstan’ was first used after a 4th innings collapse in Australia, which was by no means an isolated event in the decade. It is in fact a theme that reappears over and over in Imran Khan's autobiography.

Very significant and fine answer.I feel Imran being part of it stabilised it and Pakistan could galvanize its forces completely.How do you compare it with the best?

 

[Junaids]

Frankly, they were flat track bullies who peaked at wildly different times.

Majid Khan and Mushtaq Mohammed barely played Tests at their peak. Great players, but exposed to too few Tests at their peak.

Sadiq Mohammed, Asif Iqbal and Wasim Raja were gutsy but not that talented.

Javed Miandad was not yet at his peak.

Zaheer Abbas had amazing timing and skill, but he was scared of fast bowling and was mentally weak.

To be honest, Pakistan did better a decade later with the keeper Saleem Yousuf and Shoaib Mohammed as well as Javed Miandad showing true guts in the West Indies.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Frankly, they were flat track bullies who peaked at wildly different times.

Majid Khan and Mushtaq Mohammed barely played Tests at their peak. Great players, but exposed to too few Tests at their peak.

Sadiq Mohammed, Asif Iqbal and Wasim Raja were gutsy but not that talented.

Javed Miandad was not yet at his peak.

Zaheer Abbas had amazing timing and skill, but he was scared of fast bowling and was mentally weak.

To be honest, Pakistan did better a decade later with the keeper Saleem Yousuf and Shoaib Mohammed as well as Javed Miandad showing true guts in the West Indies.

Ok ,maybe better as team overall ,but better batting?

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Was it better than these two sides?

Langer
Hayden
Ponting
Martyn
S Waugh
Katich
Gilchrist (wkt)

Sehwag
Gambhir
Dravid
Tendulkar
Laxman
Ganguly(c)
Dhoni(wkt)

Both sides did not have as strong a batsmen as Imran at no 8.Majid was more reliable than Sehwag in a crisis while Wasim Raja was the ultimate no 7 when a teams back was to the wall,even if not as fiery as Gilly or Dhoni.Majid,Zaheer,Javed,Asif and Mushtaq were man to man on par if not better than the Australian combination and a whisker below Indian batting upto no 7 .However upto no 8 Pakistan in y view would have the slender edge .

Upto no 7 India is best.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

And also this one

Smith
A Petersen
Amla
Kallis
de Villiers
Prince
Boucher(wkt)

In an overall package Pakistan better .Majid,Zaheer,Miandad,Asif,Mushtaq and Raja a more formidable unit by a whisker.Majid was more ferocious than Smith,Zaheer was more talented than Amla,Javed was crafier than Kallis and could niggle opponents more ,Asif was better than Prince,while Raja was more tenacious than Boucher.Only AB devillers overshadowed a counterpart from Pakistan here,that is Mushtaq.

Just study the best batting of Majid,Zaheer,Asif ,Javed and Raja and you will see what I mean.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

do come here [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]

 

[Zaz]

The Pakistani batting line up of the 1970's towards the end was one of the strongest ever in the history of the game.In my view it was even better than those of West Indies and Australia of that time and similar to South Africa in 1970 with so many allrounders.To me the best batting line up of the last 50 years.

The likes of Majid Khan,Zaheer Abbas,Javed Miandad,Wasim Raja,Asif Iqbal ,Mushtaq Muhammad and Imran Khan all together made it like a mighty army.Majid and Zaheer were supreme stylists.Asif,Javed,Raja and Mushtaq were the ultimate street fighters with the bat.No doubt Javed was also a great craftsman and Asif and Wasim had a languid grace in their strokes.

At that time Majid was one of the finest batsmen against pace bowling while on flat tracks Zaheer was the best.Never forget Zaheer was prolific in Australia in 1976-77.Asif was brilliant in that very serise averaging over 78 with 2 centuries.Wasim Raja performed better than nay batsmen against West Indies averaging over 57.Mushtaq also had scored centuries against both Australia and West Indies.

Wasim Bari was no mug with the bat while Imran was one of the most handy.No team had as good a combination at no6,7 and 8 as Pakistan with Asif,Raja and Imran.

No team performed as well facing the great Carribean pace quartet in West Indies as Pakistan.


I rate this batting line up marginally ahead of India's in the mid 1980's ,Pakistan in the 1980's and 19990's or even India in 2001-2005 or Australia in the same period.


Majid Khan
Sadiq Muhammad
Zaheer Abbas
Javed Miandad
Asif Iqbal
Mushtaq Muhammad (C)
Wasim Raja
Imran Khan
Sarafraz Nawaz
Wasim Bari (W)
Iqbal Qasim

Like many teams of the decades On paper it looks great but in reality has many holes -the main one being players that were past their peak or players that werent yet at their peak

The likes of miandad imran peaked in the early to mid 80s
The lack of quality pace bowlers was another hole The others mainly batsmen were in contrasting forms throughout the 70s and didnt always play together

 

[sweep_shot]

Definitely stronger than present batting lineup.

From the current squad, only Babar is consistent.

 

[Bewal Express]

Lots of talent, Mentally weak, not enough fight.

 

[Markhor]

Never saw them live but can you really go toe to toe with West Indies in 1976/77 in their own backyard, or draw twice against Australia in Australia in 1977 and 1979 being mentally weak ?

To stand up to all their great bowlers ?

Or in 1974 when Pakistan became the first side since Bradman's Invincibles of 1948 not to lose a First Class game in England ?

I think these guys were much tougher than the batting sides of the 1990s which routinely collapsed under pressure even at home in benign conditions.

 

[MMHS]

The Pakistani batting line up of the 1970's towards the end was one of the strongest ever in the history of the game.In my view it was even better than those of West Indies and Australia of that time and similar to South Africa in 1970 with so many allrounders.To me the best batting line up of the last 50 years.

The likes of Majid Khan,Zaheer Abbas,Javed Miandad,Wasim Raja,Asif Iqbal ,Mushtaq Muhammad and Imran Khan all together made it like a mighty army.Majid and Zaheer were supreme stylists.Asif,Javed,Raja and Mushtaq were the ultimate street fighters with the bat.No doubt Javed was also a great craftsman and Asif and Wasim had a languid grace in their strokes.

At that time Majid was one of the finest batsmen against pace bowling while on flat tracks Zaheer was the best.Never forget Zaheer was prolific in Australia in 1976-77.Asif was brilliant in that very serise averaging over 78 with 2 centuries.Wasim Raja performed better than nay batsmen against West Indies averaging over 57.Mushtaq also had scored centuries against both Australia and West Indies.

Wasim Bari was no mug with the bat while Imran was one of the most handy.No team had as good a combination at no6,7 and 8 as Pakistan with Asif,Raja and Imran.

No team performed as well facing the great Carribean pace quartet in West Indies as Pakistan.


I rate this batting line up marginally ahead of India's in the mid 1980's ,Pakistan in the 1980's and 19990's or even India in 2001-2005 or Australia in the same period.


Majid Khan
Sadiq Muhammad
Zaheer Abbas
Javed Miandad
Asif Iqbal
Mushtaq Muhammad (C)
Wasim Raja
Imran Khan
Sarafraz Nawaz
Wasim Bari (W)
Iqbal Qasim

I believe, this discussion is for Test cricket (Otherwise Qasim shouldn't be there).

That was a very good batting line-up, among best ever that PAK has put. But, let alone last 50 years, I don't think that line-up was even among top two of 1970s - won't have been among top 3 either had SAF not been banned.

The strength of that line-up was it's depth - more or less till 10th spot you have a decent batsman. But, there were two glaring weaknesses in that line-up - lack of a master batsman and the Wicket - Keeper. Yes, it was 1970s and WKs were picked on gloves work first, but still those days there were Knott, Marsh, Engineer (& DT Lindsay had SAF was around).

I believe, two batting line-ups were distinctively better than PAK through-out 1970s, one at per (up & down time to time) & one banned that was surely better than PAK. These are the AUS, WIN & ENG (+SAF) line-up for that decade (most of the period between 01 Jan 1971 to 31 Dec 1980))

AUS:
1. Redpath/Edwards
2. Stackpole/McCosker
3. ChappelI
4. ChappelG
5. Walters
6. Border/Yellop/Hughes
7. Rod Marsh
8. Max Walker/Gilmore/O'keefe
9. Lillee
10. Thompson
11. Mallet/Dymock/Hogg

WIN:
1. Grineedge
2. Fredricks/Haynes
3. Richards
4. Kalicharan
5. *Lloyd
6. Rowe
7. +DL Murray
8. B Jullien/Boyce/Holford
9. Roberts
10. Holding
11. Garner/Croft/Holder/Gibbs
* I am not considering Sir Gary & Kanhai here who actually played till 1973 & 1975 respectively. Also, Marshall played for last 2 years.

ENG:
1. Boycott
2. Edrich/Gooch
3. Amiss/Gower
4. Fletcher/Randall
5. Woolmer/Lloyd/Steele
6. *Greig
7. +Knott
8. CM Old/Botham
9. Underwood
10. Willis
11. Hendricks/Arnold/Lever/Snow

SAF (Probable):
1. BA Richards
2. Barlow/Jimmy Cook
3. Fotheringham/Hylton Acherman
4. G Pollock
5. Ervine/Peter Kristen
6. *Rice
7. +DT Lindsey/McEwan/Tony Smith
8. MJ Procter
9. PM Pollock/Le Roux
10. Rupert Hanley/Vincent Van der Bijl
11. Traicos/Denys Hobson

No way, PAK had a better batting line-up that AUS & WIN, and South Africa as well - against Poms, I would say close but not decisive. They had a better batting line-up than India and definitely NZ.

In ODI, it'll be different story though - probably, I dare to say surely that PAK line-up between 1973 to 1979 was best or joint best along with WIN. This was again for those two reasons that went against Test team, but will work for ODI team - in Zaheer, PAK has an absolutely outstanding ODI batsman, someone who matched Viv Richards with stats and Viv's stats didn't include runs facing own team mates. Excluding volume, Zaheer will be always in my All Time ODI XI - the best ODI batsman that I have seen in conventional era. In Mazid, PAK arguably had the best ODI opener of 1970s, and Asif Iqbal at 6 was the Bevan of 1970s. Add to that the depth of batting and all-round capability of Mushtaq, Asif, Mazid, Javed, Intekhab, Wasim Raza, Imran ..... even Sarfraz - that line-up was made for ODI. 1979 was a bit different case because of that WIN squad, but PAK should have won or made the final at least of 1975 WC. In 1974, against an experienced English team (those days apart for ENG, hardly anyone had any ODI experience even in domestics), PAK won ODI series 2-0 and absolutely demolishing Poms at their home - I think, in first game 260+ was chased inside 45 overs (of 60 overs game those days) and the next game ENG was booked for sub 100 total and Zaheer chased that inside 20 overs of 50/60 overs game.

##On a side note, to write this, I had a glance at the SAF generation of 1970s - what a tremendous team that was. And, it's frightening to think that Greig, Lamb, Wessels, Robin Jackman .... left for other teams. Cricket's greatest loss - what a shame.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

I believe, this discussion is for Test cricket (Otherwise Qasim shouldn't be there).

That was a very good batting line-up, among best ever that PAK has put. But, let alone last 50 years, I don't think that line-up was even among top two of 1970s - won't have been among top 3 either had SAF not been banned.

The strength of that line-up was it's depth - more or less till 10th spot you have a decent batsman. But, there were two glaring weaknesses in that line-up - lack of a master batsman and the Wicket - Keeper. Yes, it was 1970s and WKs were picked on gloves work first, but still those days there were Knott, Marsh, Engineer (& DT Lindsay had SAF was around).

I believe, two batting line-ups were distinctively better than PAK through-out 1970s, one at per (up & down time to time) & one banned that was surely better than PAK. These are the AUS, WIN & ENG (+SAF) line-up for that decade (most of the period between 01 Jan 1971 to 31 Dec 1980))

AUS:
1. Redpath/Edwards
2. Stackpole/McCosker
3. ChappelI
4. ChappelG
5. Walters
6. Border/Yellop/Hughes
7. Rod Marsh
8. Max Walker/Gilmore/O'keefe
9. Lillee
10. Thompson
11. Mallet/Dymock/Hogg

WIN:
1. Grineedge
2. Fredricks/Haynes
3. Richards
4. Kalicharan
5. *Lloyd
6. Rowe
7. +DL Murray
8. B Jullien/Boyce/Holford
9. Roberts
10. Holding
11. Garner/Croft/Holder/Gibbs
* I am not considering Sir Gary & Kanhai here who actually played till 1973 & 1975 respectively. Also, Marshall played for last 2 years.

ENG:
1. Boycott
2. Edrich/Gooch
3. Amiss/Gower
4. Fletcher/Randall
5. Woolmer/Lloyd/Steele
6. *Greig
7. +Knott
8. CM Old/Botham
9. Underwood
10. Willis
11. Hendricks/Arnold/Lever/Snow

SAF (Probable):
1. BA Richards
2. Barlow/Jimmy Cook
3. Fotheringham/Hylton Acherman
4. G Pollock
5. Ervine/Peter Kristen
6. *Rice
7. +DT Lindsey/McEwan/Tony Smith
8. MJ Procter
9. PM Pollock/Le Roux
10. Rupert Hanley/Vincent Van der Bijl
11. Traicos/Denys Hobson

No way, PAK had a better batting line-up that AUS & WIN, and South Africa as well - against Poms, I would say close but not decisive. They had a better batting line-up than India and definitely NZ.

In ODI, it'll be different story though - probably, I dare to say surely that PAK line-up between 1973 to 1979 was best or joint best along with WIN. This was again for those two reasons that went against Test team, but will work for ODI team - in Zaheer, PAK has an absolutely outstanding ODI batsman, someone who matched Viv Richards with stats and Viv's stats didn't include runs facing own team mates. Excluding volume, Zaheer will be always in my All Time ODI XI - the best ODI batsman that I have seen in conventional era. In Mazid, PAK arguably had the best ODI opener of 1970s, and Asif Iqbal at 6 was the Bevan of 1970s. Add to that the depth of batting and all-round capability of Mushtaq, Asif, Mazid, Javed, Intekhab, Wasim Raza, Imran ..... even Sarfraz - that line-up was made for ODI. 1979 was a bit different case because of that WIN squad, but PAK should have won or made the final at least of 1975 WC. In 1974, against an experienced English team (those days apart for ENG, hardly anyone had any ODI experience even in domestics), PAK won ODI series 2-0 and absolutely demolishing Poms at their home - I think, in first game 260+ was chased inside 45 overs (of 60 overs game those days) and the next game ENG was booked for sub 100 total and Zaheer chased that inside 20 overs of 50/60 overs game.

##On a side note, to write this, I had a glance at the SAF generation of 1970s - what a tremendous team that was. And, it's frightening to think that Greig, Lamb, Wessels, Robin Jackman .... left for other teams. Cricket's greatest loss - what a shame.

Very good and sound analysis with great depth.I agree Pakistan were arguably stronger and best in ODI cricket.I agrees Pakistan should have won the 1975 World Cup if not the one in 1979.True West Indies,Australia or Proteas were arguably better in test cricket.Howver I disagree Pak had no master batsmen with stalwarts like Majid,Zaheer Just see their international records.Definitely ahead of England if not the others. or even Asif.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

[MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] please come here .Pakistan ahead of England in same era of 1970's?Comparable to greatest batting line ups?

 

[munda_khi]

Never saw them live but can you really go toe to toe with West Indies in 1976/77 in their own backyard, or draw twice against Australia in Australia in 1977 and 1979 being mentally weak ?

To stand up to all their great bowlers ?

Or in 1974 when Pakistan became the first side since Bradman's Invincibles of 1948 not to lose a First Class game in England ?

I think these guys were much tougher than the batting sides of the 1990s which routinely collapsed under pressure even at home in benign conditions.

We need to put things in prospective.

West Indies were not that great side at that time. They were beaten by Australia very badly in the previous series. Roberts and Holding didn't played against Pakistan. It was debut series of Croft and Garner.

England 1974 England tour was great in the sense we were unbeaten in first class matches but the comparison with great Australians of '48 ends there. Look at this side, it was most experienced in England after England. On top of that we don't see many big names in English side.

Australia 1979, again all top players are not playing due Kerry Packer and even then series was saved by a miraculous Sarfraz Nawaz spell. Series ended 1-1 against a second choice Australian side.

Also in 70's mean 72-73 tour of Australia which was lost 3-0.

The great achievement of that side was '76 vs Australia 1-1 and -78 home series vs India