How will India's attitude to Pakistan change if (when) Imran Khan becomes Prime Minister?

[ToeCrusher2]

India's attitude towards Pakistan won't change until the cross border terrorism is stopped, it doesn't matter who the PM or President of Pakistan is.

 

[cricketjoshila]

The guy's party runs the province under his leadership, a province that was the most pathetic on every metric is now better on every metric. This is not me saying it, stats say it and most of all many people from KPK say it. Mamoon, a known anti-PTI poster, included who begrudgingly admitted very good changes.

He literally took the most corrupt dynasty to rule Pakistan to cleaners in a space of 3 years while the PPP runs around trying to defend looters. Poor politician Maybe he should be Nawaz, lie to people then lie in Parliament then make up fake papers in court. Proper politician.

I never comment on Indian politics as I am not an Indian and therefore won't have proper knowledge. Your post, like most Indians on Pakistani politics, is what it is: garbage.

Why will it matter to India if Imran Khan is PM?India's point is simple, stop supporting terrorism in India, whoever does it, India will talk to him.Until then it wont matter to India who is Pakistani PM.There is nothing that IK will bring to the table that hasnot been thrown at India by Pakistan and hasnt been swatted away.

 

[IndYeah1]

Why will it matter to India if Imran Khan is PM?India's point is simple, stop supporting terrorism in India, whoever does it, India will talk to him.Until then it wont matter to India who is Pakistani PM.There is nothing that IK will bring to the table that hasnot been thrown at India by Pakistan and hasnt been swatted away.

I think it will be interesting to see if PakMil ever allows someone like Imran to become PM. He has too much public credibility to be pushed aside if he makes peace moves towards India that the Jernails don't agree with. If in a hypothetical scenario, Imran goes public about bullying by the army when it comes to policy, that is an unpredictable scenario for the Army.

 

[Thomaskutty]

It won't matter one bit if Imran Khan becomes the PM , relations between the two countries will remain the same. The single biggest or rather the only obstacle between proper Indo-Pak relations is the pakistani fauj and the only poster on here I've seen admit this is DW44.

 

[Syed1]

It won't matter one bit if Imran Khan becomes the PM , relations between the two countries will remain the same. The single biggest or rather the only obstacle between proper Indo-Pak relations is the pakistani fauj and the only poster on here I've seen admit this is DW44.

If you are taking DW44's words as the truth then you have serious issues and only hearing what you want to hear. DW sahab has even said that the Pak Army is covertly helping the people bombing Pakistani civilians and infact even Army personnel. Nobody in their right mind would believe that.

 

[Waseem]

It won't matter one bit if Imran Khan becomes the PM , relations between the two countries will remain the same. The single biggest or rather the only obstacle between proper Indo-Pak relations is the pakistani fauj and the only poster on here I've seen admit this is DW44.

I am sure he also believes the terrorists like Kalbhushan that you send across the border or pick ready-made Afghan terrorists are also the reason peace with Indian is difficult

 

[WebGuru]

I have read Imran's autobiography - I think he was an exceptional cricketer - but I don't think he has what it takes to lead a country. His understanding of economics, policy, governance are childishly naive and dangerously populist. Judging from your post, I can clearly see that any criticism of Imran will rile you up. But that's your prerogative. You can be the biggest fan-boi of Imran on the planet - won't magically make him a qualified leader.

The only problem with your post is that Imran is proving you wrong with his govt and leadership in KP province

KP is becoming role model for other province under IK when it comes to human development. Police, Education, Health and Governance everything is on a rise there if you compare to other provinces of Pakistan where parties with 30 and 40 years experience of ruling are governing again.

 

[Black Zero]

Yeah right. Time to re-draw borders has gone. You guys played a good hand, and created a country out of it. 4 wars and 70 years should have shown you that reality, that its not going to be possible to change borders now. Pakistan doesn't have the capacity to force India to agree to the changes it wants. Ball is in Pakistan's court. They can either choose to spend bulk of their resources on their jernails and kernails, who have achieved diddly squat in their 70 year track record, or try to move on instead of being stuck in the past.

nothing is permanent ...and 70 years period is nothing...especially for India.

 

[King-Misbah]

Why will India's attitude change towards Pakistan? Which bum sits in the Prime Minister's chair doesn't have much impact on India-Pakistan relations. Your civilian government doesn't call the shots on India policy. Any PM that tries to do something that the military doesn't approve of, will find himself sitting on a different chair.

India's attitude towards Pakistan will change when the PakMil comes to its senses and drops this cycle of hostility. The signs are not good on this happening anytime soon.

This "mainstreaming" experiment that's going on currently reflects the Pakistani mindset when it comes to changing its stripes. Not happening any time soon.


And to be blunt, Imran Khan is pretty much an 'empty vessel' when it comes to the nitty gritty of governance. He may be non-corrupt at a personal level, but has shown himself to be a very poor adminstrator and politician. There's a reason someone who has his levels of astronomical popularity has been unable to get anywhere near political power for so long. He's not very good at this. Pure and simple.

Oh Yes, Indians are saints.

India's long term ambition is to destroy Pakistan's army and then indirectly control Pakistan before breaking it into pieces. Its all indian propaganda against Pakistan's army that Pakistani liberals also swear by. We stand by the army and hope that the current traitor politicians get a hiding in the next few years.

Indians also detest Imran because they realise that he has Pakistan's interest at heart. They belittle Imran and call Nawaz as sher because NS/PMLN is pro India.

Time we realise this.

 

[IndYeah1]

Oh Yes, Indians are saints.

India's long term ambition is to destroy Pakistan's army and then indirectly control Pakistan before breaking it into pieces.

This is just silly. A fragmented Pakistan means we would have the equivalent of Pakistan's Afghan problem on our borders. No sane Indian wants that.

 

[Thomaskutty]

If you are taking DW44's words as the truth then you have serious issues and only hearing what you want to hear. DW sahab has even said that the Pak Army is covertly helping the people bombing Pakistani civilians and infact even Army personnel. Nobody in their right mind would believe that.

Forget DW. As far as Imran is concerned , he has appeared on many indian news shows and more or less signalled to viewers in morse code that he is in a difficult situation , give him some leeway, he doesn't have a choice yada yada.. Ergo most indians are sitting on the fence regarding him , see him as personally honest but he'll never cross the red lines set up by the Fauj. Nawaz crossed these lines and paid the price with his job ..

If posters here are happy with Imran cleaning up Pak domestically one province at a time , then good on them. But he has no influence on foriegn policy and never will.

 

[Thomaskutty]

I am sure he also believes the terrorists like Kalbhushan that you send across the border or pick ready-made Afghan terrorists are also the reason peace with Indian is difficult

Wasn't it an ex-ISI general that came on pak tv and admitted to Kulbushan being nabbed in Iran , which he retracted a day later ? I wonder what that was all about

 

[cricketjoshila]

nothing is permanent ...and 70 years period is nothing...especially for India.

If only your wishes could change Indias borders.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Oh Yes, Indians are saints.

India's long term ambition is to destroy Pakistan's army and then indirectly control Pakistan before breaking it into pieces. Its all indian propaganda against Pakistan's army that Pakistani liberals also swear by. We stand by the army and hope that the current traitor politicians get a hiding in the next few years.

Indians also detest Imran because they realise that he has Pakistan's interest at heart. They belittle Imran and call Nawaz as sher because NS/PMLN is pro India.

Time we realise this.

Pakistan wont even be uttered in India if Pakistan wasnot supporting terrorism in India.Indians are least concerned about what happens in Pakistan or how it us governed.

So what will Imran Khan do?Go to war with India?There is nothing he can do that Pak Army havent already tried and India havent countered.

 

[Syed1]

Pakistan wont even be uttered in India if Pakistan wasnot supporting terrorism in India.Indians are least concerned about what happens in Pakistan or how it us governed.

So what will Imran Khan do?Go to war with India?There is nothing he can do that Pak Army havent already tried and India havent countered.

That's exactly why we have so many of you on here and on every Pakistan news website

 

[the Great Khan]

Pakistan wont even be uttered in India if Pakistan wasnot supporting terrorism in India.Indians are least concerned about what happens in Pakistan or how it us governed.

So what will Imran Khan do?Go to war with India?There is nothing he can do that Pak Army havent already tried and India havent countered.

can you tell me how many indians have been killed by pakistani sponsored attacks since mumbai in 2008?

 

[cricketjoshila]

That's exactly why we have so many of you on here and on every Pakistan news website

So how many Indians are here and what is the population of India?

 

[www787]

Pakistan wont even be uttered in India if Pakistan wasnot supporting terrorism in India.Indians are least concerned about what happens in Pakistan or how it us governed.

So what will Imran Khan do?Go to war with India?There is nothing he can do that Pak Army havent already tried and India havent countered.

on topic, nothing will happen as long as Radical Hindu extremists are in power.

 

[Syed1]

So how many Indians are here and what is the population of India?

Go to any Pakistani news website (I'm sure that is part of your daily routine) and scroll down to the comments 90% of them are Indian. You keep crying that Indians don't care about happens in Pakistan yet the truth is completely different.

 

[cricketjoshila]

can you tell me how many indians have been killed by pakistani sponsored attacks since mumbai in 2008?

I will have to look up the figures.But even if the figure is 1 its still important.

 

[www787]

I will have to look up the figures.But even if the figure is 1 its still important.

can you also look up how many people have been killed in India for being muslims, minority, and just for transporting cows.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Go to any Pakistani news website (I'm sure that is part of your daily routine) and scroll down to the comments 90% of them are Indian. You keep crying that Indians don't care about happens in Pakistan yet the truth is completely different.

Didnt know you worked to keep track of my daily routine.Sorry but i have far better media sources to pursue than Pakistani ones.

You know that on the internet anyone can be anyone?Or dont you?

I said IF pakistan didnot meddle in India,Indians wont even utter the name Pakistan.Unfortunately Pakistan does meddle in India and supports secessionism and terrorism in India.

 

[Syed1]

Didnt know you worked to keep track of my daily routine.Sorry but i have far better media sources to pursue than Pakistani ones.

You know that on the internet anyone can be anyone?Or dont you?

I said IF pakistan didnot meddle in India,Indians wont even utter the name Pakistan.Unfortunately Pakistan does meddle in India and supports secessionism and terrorism in India.

Yes Kulbushan was on lion safari in Baluchistan


Brain washed Indians think India is doodh ki dhuli wi LMAO

 

[cricketjoshila]

Yes Kulbushan was on lion safari in Baluchistan


Brain washed Indians think India is doodh ki dhuli wi LMAO

I am sure Pakistan will then prove its case in the ICJ.

 

[Pakpak]

I won't claim to be ultra-knowledgeable on Pak Politics. But isn't it true that Imran has enrolled a bunch of people in his "clean" party, guys who are just as corrupt as those of the PPP and PML-N?

And has it really been only 3 years since Imran has been campaigning? Seems to me he has been trying for a much longer time now. And given the crappy alternatives of the PPP and Nawaz, why couldn't he manage to win enough votes to be PM yet? A superstar of his magnitude - he's more of a God for Pakistanis than Sachin or Gavaskar is in India - it should have been a slamdunk for him to become PM already. But he has somehow managed to steal defeat from the jaws of victory - against the likes of Bilawal Bhutto and Nawaz. Why is that?

I have read Imran's autobiography - I think he was an exceptional cricketer - but I don't think he has what it takes to lead a country. His understanding of economics, policy, governance are childishly naive and dangerously populist. Judging from your post, I can clearly see that any criticism of Imran will rile you up. But that's your prerogative. You can be the biggest fan-boi of Imran on the planet - won't magically make him a qualified leader.

I think you need to brush up on some facts.

He has only seriously contested elections in 2013, before then it was him mostly one man. Pakistan's votebank is not like India's, ours is feudal. People like Bhutto found it impossible to break into Punjab or people like Nawaz found it impossible to break into Sindh, our two biggest vote banks...you expect him to? Its a minor miracle he did and even more of a miracle that PTI has now all but replaced PPP as the second biggest party in Pakistan. By elections, where the ruling government wins everytime, Nawaz's party has barely hung on to his constituency, never mind anywhere else. Yeah he has some ex PPP, PMLN people but most are all corruption free. People like Yasmin Rashid, who almost beat Kalsum Nawaz 2 weeks ago or people like Asad Omar are all new, educated middle class. The kind of people who never get a chance anywhere else.

Its unheard of in our country.

And what rile me up? I have bashed Imran Khan numerous times, but his party has far easily delivered ten times more than any other party in their provinces. That is good enough.

You don't claim to be ultra-knowledgeable? That's being kind, your knowledge is poor and atleast a decade behind.

 

[cricketjoshila]

can you also look up how many people have been killed in India for being muslims, minority, and just for transporting cows.

How is it relevant to any Pakistani?This is called meddling into affairs of another country.You run your country as you deemed fit, i have no business telling you why Pakistan should not be an islamic republic.Why minorities in Pakistan shouldnot be treated as second class.Why if a muslim stops believing in Islam he shouldnot be punished with death.Why other religions are as important as Islam.etc etc etc.

 

[Syed1]

I am sure Pakistan will then prove its case in the ICJ.

We don't have to prove to anyone. We know and that's all that matters.

 

[Pakpak]

I think it will be interesting to see if PakMil ever allows someone like Imran to become PM. He has too much public credibility to be pushed aside if he makes peace moves towards India that the Jernails don't agree with. If in a hypothetical scenario, Imran goes public about bullying by the army when it comes to policy, that is an unpredictable scenario for the Army.

Finally something of substance.

He has spoken very highly of Indians, watch any interview out of dozens he's done in India, but when it comes policy it will depend on the army. Not him.

 

[cricketjoshila]

We don't have to prove to anyone. We know and that's all that matters.

Then i guess Pakistani govt should tell that to the ICJ.

 

[Syed1]

Then i guess Pakistani govt should tell that to the ICJ.

Good luck... your spy dog won't see the light of day ever again.

 

[DW44]

If you are taking DW44's words as the truth then you have serious issues and only hearing what you want to hear. DW sahab has even said that the Pak Army is covertly helping the people bombing Pakistani civilians and infact even Army personnel. Nobody in their right mind would believe that.

Are you suggesting that the army does not support Lashkar e Jhangvi? Or that they don't control our foreign policy? Just for the record, LeJ doesn't attack the army, the most official target it has ever attacked is the police. Your poor fact checking doesn't change the facts, it just means you're not aware of them.

 

[www787]

How is it relevant to any Pakistani?This is called meddling into affairs of another country.You run your country as you deemed fit, i have no business telling you why Pakistan should not be an islamic republic.Why minorities in Pakistan shouldnot be treated as second class.Why if a muslim stops believing in Islam he shouldnot be punished with death.Why other religions are as important as Islam.etc etc etc.

Like i said "broken record". and if you have studied medicine, you would know the difference between criticism and giving order. This is a forum, and no one has told you to how to live your life, rather it is you who come back with usual defense, "our country our way of live", which is ridiculous and weak defense to counter any criticism of India.

People will criticize India, that is their right, you live in a one world where everyone share the same earth. Imaginary lines on sand does not make you a better person or the person criticizing India.

 

[DW44]

Are you suggesting that the army does not support Lashkar e Jhangvi? Or that they don't control our foreign policy? Just for the record, LeJ doesn't attack the army, the most official target it has ever attacked is the police. Your poor fact checking doesn't change the facts, it just means you're not aware of them.

If you are taking DW44's words as the truth then you have serious issues and only hearing what you want to hear. DW sahab has even said that the Pak Army is covertly helping the people bombing Pakistani civilians and infact even Army personnel. Nobody in their right mind would believe that.

Oh, and one more thing, I never said they're supporting the terrorist organization in question covertly. They do so overtly and have no qualms about senior military officials (Brigadiers and higher) being photographed with LeJ/SSP/ASWJ leaders in social settings. This is one of the few organizations alongside Jaish e Mohammad that the army isn't afraid to be seen dealing with in public. I'd post the photographs but my patience for censorship is limited and those photographs have been censored before.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Good luck... your spy dog won't see the light of day ever again.

Oh i think the Indian govt will be very happy if Pakistan refuses to obey the verdict of ICJ.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Like i said "broken record". and if you have studied medicine, you would know the difference between criticism and giving order. This is a forum, and no one has told you to how to live your life, rather it is you who come back with usual defense, "our country our way of live", which is ridiculous and weak defense to counter any criticism of India.

People will criticize India, that is their right, you live in a one world where everyone share the same earth. Imaginary lines on sand does not make you a better person or the person criticizing India.

Criticism and Bashing are two different things.

Pakistanis are the people who separated from India saying they cant live in India.So now that they have a separate home land why so much interest in what Indians do in their country.Isnt the imaginary line is what Jinnah fought for?

Just because you dont believe or may be you are just saying this as it suits your narrative, national boundaries will disappear.

A country is free to decide how it wants to govern itself, its laws etc etc.No other country can interfere in that.If anyone tries they should be treated with utter disdain.So yes our country our rules is the basis of nation states.

 

[Gubol123]

I am sure Pakistan will then prove its case in the ICJ.

First let them prove that in their own civilian court rather than military Kangroo courts

 

[IndYeah1]

Finally something of substance.

He has spoken very highly of Indians, watch any interview out of dozens he's done in India, but when it comes policy it will depend on the army. Not him.

And in what alternate universe is it ok for Army to decide policy? Do you guys realize that its the tail wagging the dog? Just because they wear the uniform and wrap themselves in the flag doesn't mean that the army's motives are pure. It astounds me how the pak citizens just give a blank check to their army, with zero accountability. Its the mark of desperation - as if the entire society outside of the army is incapable of providing leadership. The army is made of people from the same country and society, and susceptible to the same afflictions.

 

[Gubol123]

And in what alternate universe is it ok for Army to decide policy? Do you guys realize that its the tail wagging the dog? Just because they wear the uniform and wrap themselves in the flag doesn't mean that the army's motives are pure. It astounds me how the pak citizens just give a blank check to their army, with zero accountability. Its the mark of desperation - as if the entire society outside of the army is incapable of providing leadership. The army is made of people from the same country and society, and susceptible to the same afflictions.

and more importantly what is there to be proud of an army which lost half its country, failed to capture an hill sitting on top of it, lets every country and its ally to violate its sovereignty (drone attacks, afghan/indian army attacks, Osama capture, Taliban leaders captures, etc, etc) blatantly, and takes over running the country from an elected representative? If i elect a government and if our military goes around capturing the government, i will be really ****** off, irrespective of whatever reason the army gives. Army's job is to defend country and not run the govt and make policies.. really surprising how most of the Pak citizens think it is okay that army makes policies..

 

[Pakpak]

And in what alternate universe is it ok for Army to decide policy? Do you guys realize that its the tail wagging the dog? Just because they wear the uniform and wrap themselves in the flag doesn't mean that the army's motives are pure. It astounds me how the pak citizens just give a blank check to their army, with zero accountability. Its the mark of desperation - as if the entire society outside of the army is incapable of providing leadership. The army is made of people from the same country and society, and susceptible to the same afflictions.

You seem on edge. I just gave you a fact, where did I say I agreed with it?

Have a look around PP, army gets criticised all the time.

 

[IndYeah1]

on Edge? Not sure why you would think that.

My post is a response to yours stating that Imran would defer to the army on Policy. That's pretty much the root cause of India-Pakistan problems. Overreach of the PakMil when it comes to determination of state policy.

 

[Gubol123]

You seem on edge. I just gave you a fact, where did I say I agreed with it?

Have a look around PP, army gets criticised all the time.

You are right.. I have seen lot of people opposing army policies and lot more defending them. I can understand someone defending their army for whatever defence work they do. Why defend them when they interfere with governance.. Governed by any institution holding a gun is the last thing a country should be happy with. I am my own theory on why most of the Muslim countries are ruled by dictators and the population by and large is fine with it.

 

[Pakpak]

You are right.. I have seen lot of people opposing army policies and lot more defending them. I can understand someone defending their army for whatever defence work they do. Why defend them when they interfere with governance.. Governed by any institution holding a gun is the last thing a country should be happy with. I am my own theory on why most of the Muslim countries are ruled by dictators and the population by and large is fine with it.

Who is defending army on interfering with governance?

 

[Pakpak]

on Edge? Not sure why you would think that.

My post is a response to yours stating that Imran would defer to the army on Policy. That's pretty much the root cause of India-Pakistan problems. Overreach of the PakMil when it comes to determination of state policy.

You mentioned Pak citizens. Pakistan citizens are too busy trying to survive. We will mature one day, its not happening today or tomorrow.

India and Pakistan problems won't solve till both side learn common sense, typical Indian tactic to lay it all on our feet I suppose.

 

[Gubol123]

Who is defending army on interfering with governance?

Read through PP or any other Pakistani forums. Or any Pakistani newspaper (haven't followed your media in the last couple of months) when they run any army and government clashes stories. Most of the commentators will support whatever version Army puts out. Many are okay with army interference and even hope army will take over governance. Don't tell this because politicians are corrupt. They are corrupt everywhere but still manage to run their countries. Army is the most revered and supported institution in Pakistan. Not sure why. Anyway whatever works for your countrymen.

 

[Pakpak]

Read through PP or any other Pakistani forums. Or any Pakistani newspaper (haven't followed your media in the last couple of months) when they run any army and government clashes stories. Most of the commentators will support whatever version Army puts out. Many are okay with army interference and even hope army will take over governance. Don't tell this because politicians are corrupt. They are corrupt everywhere but still manage to run their countries. Army is the most revered and supported institution in Pakistan. Not sure why. Anyway whatever works for your countrymen.

When you have a corrupt elite who has eaten away our country, eg right now with Panama case and even now our finance minister being arrested, I am surprised you're surprised. Its a very complex issue but leave it to the Pakistanis. Indians have their own problems without lecturing Pakistan. KB, it was, did a fantastic post on this a while back so maybe read that if you can find it.

At midnight I can't be arsed arguing with Indians on our politics.

 

[Gubol123]

When you have a corrupt elite who has eaten away our country, eg right now with Panama case and even now our finance minister being arrested, I am surprised you're surprised. Its a very complex issue but leave it to the Pakistanis. Indians have their own problems without lecturing Pakistan. KB, it was, did a fantastic post on this a while back so maybe read that if you can find it.

At midnight I can't be arsed arguing with Indians on our politics.

India has its own set of problems, but not this particular one. Arguably this is what is holding back Pakistan from becoming an Asian tiger.. Pakistan being a smaller country having higher per capita resources than India is in a much better position to leapfrog to second world/first world. What is holding them back is mostly their military. and if you say that is because of corrupt politicians than most bigger countries including India, Japan, Korea, China, America, Russia, etc almost all countries have corrupt leaders.... Anyway as you wish, it is your country.. Good night..

 

[Pakpak]

India has its own set of problems, but not this particular one. Arguably this is what is holding back Pakistan from becoming an Asian tiger.. Pakistan being a smaller country having higher per capita resources than India is in a much better position to leapfrog to second world/first world. What is holding them back is mostly their military. and if you say that is because of corrupt politicians than most bigger countries including India, Japan, Korea, China, America, Russia, etc almost all countries have corrupt leaders.... Anyway as you wish, it is your country.. Good night..

When India elects mass thieves or when India appoints money launderers as its finance ministers then please come back and talk to me about corrupt leaders.

 

[Gubol123]

When India elects mass thieves or when India appoints money launderers as its finance ministers then please come back and talk to me about corrupt leaders.

as you wish sir .
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/ass...inked-to-karti-chidambaram-are-seized-1754816

i don't want to disappoint you and want to you to have a sound sleep knowing that India did elect a finance minister whose family is now accused of money laundering, apart from other financial scams. Unfortunately most of the politicians are corrupt, it is just that some are better at hiding it.. Enjoy your day

 

[King-Misbah]

This is just silly. A fragmented Pakistan means we would have the equivalent of Pakistan's Afghan problem on our borders. No sane Indian wants that.

You dream of mini states of the current Pakistan. Until India accepts Pakistan's existance and treats it with respect; the issues will continue. Indian government tries to belittle Pakistan on any platform. Current strategy is to isolate Pakistan etc. It just seems that a lot Indians are bought up to hate Pakistan. Your media plays a significant role in that as does your government.

 

[IndYeah1]

You dream of mini states of the current Pakistan. Until India accepts Pakistan's existance and treats it with respect; the issues will continue. Indian government tries to belittle Pakistan on any platform. Current strategy is to isolate Pakistan etc. It just seems that a lot Indians are bought up to hate Pakistan. Your media plays a significant role in that as does your government.

OK. Your mindset is pretty evident in your post. You have totally drank the koolaid. Get well Soon.

By the way, there is a long trail of evidence of what the Pakistani government has done in India - going back all the way to 1993 and even earlier. So the "current strategy to isolate Pakistan" has some historical causes behind it.

 

[Romali_rotti]

You dream of mini states of the current Pakistan.


No, not many in India care of splitting Pakistanis into little states, hindu fundamentalists do not represent the whole of Indian population. However Pakistan in return is dreaming of paying India back for separating Pakistan in 2.

Until India accepts Pakistan's existance and treats it with respect; the issues will continue.

No, Pakistan doesn't even respect itself, so why should anyone else ? no one in the international arena takes Pakistan seriously. Whichever country that choose to associate with Pakistan is using it for their own personal agenda at the expense of Pakistan. Your spokes person Maleeha Lodhi who recently spoke in the UN recently holding up a photo of the Palestinian girl Rawya abu Jom calling her Kashmiri, has placed the cherry on the cake, flat out embarrassing. Pakistan really out did itself by embarrassing themselves in the international arena and you expect people to respect you ?


Indian government tries to belittle Pakistan on any platform..

Current strategy is to isolate Pakistan etc.

Agreed...

It just seems that a lot Indians are bought up to hate Pakistan.

I could say the same about Pakistanis.

BOLD & Till your country let go of the Kashmir, India obsession and giving over importance to religion your country will go right down the drain. Proof is in the pudding, since independence Pakistan have so far achieved a big whooping nothing. Do I sound like a hater to you ? probably, I don't feel I am, I don't hate Pakistan or Pakistanis but I am speaking the way I see it. Would it be better for India, if Pakistan was doing well economically and politically ? absolutely but will it get there ? highly unlikely, Pakistan is what it is and imo will go the way they are currently.

 

[Pakpak]

as you wish sir .
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/ass...inked-to-karti-chidambaram-are-seized-1754816

i don't want to disappoint you and want to you to have a sound sleep knowing that India did elect a finance minister whose family is now accused of money laundering, apart from other financial scams. Unfortunately most of the politicians are corrupt, it is just that some are better at hiding it.. Enjoy your day

Wow you really are clutching at straws. The link you sent talks about a son of some former, former being the word, minister. And the amount is nothing

How it compares to our minister who has embezzled a billion, provided fake documents in court and is still our minister despite being told by the court that he is ineligible. Or how does it compare to us when our prime minister has embezzled billions, provided fake documents to the court and then was dismissed.

India has problems. Heck I'm a Pakistani so I'll say that. But one thing India has we don't is good leaders who love India. Whatever I think about Modi the guy puts India first. He looks like a leader.

As I said read KBs old post since you're all about telling me to read. It sets out wonderfully why we are set between corrupt leaders and army rule and why India went onto become a democracy.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Wow you really are clutching at straws. The link you sent talks about a son of some former, former being the word, minister. And the amount is nothing

How it compares to our minister who has embezzled a billion, provided fake documents in court and is still our minister despite being told by the court that he is ineligible. Or how does it compare to us when our prime minister has embezzled billions, provided fake documents to the court and then was dismissed.

India has problems. Heck I'm a Pakistani so I'll say that. But one thing India has we don't is good leaders who love India. Whatever I think about Modi the guy puts India first. He looks like a leader.

As I said read KBs old post since you're all about telling me to read. It sets out wonderfully why we are set between corrupt leaders and army rule and why India went onto become a democracy.

Sir,

With all due respect i suggest you just google 2 scams in India in last 10 years.You will know the magnitude.

2G Scam

Coal Gate Scam

 

[big_gamer007]

Wow you really are clutching at straws. The link you sent talks about a son of some former, former being the word, minister. And the amount is nothing

How it compares to our minister who has embezzled a billion, provided fake documents in court and is still our minister despite being told by the court that he is ineligible. Or how does it compare to us when our prime minister has embezzled billions, provided fake documents to the court and then was dismissed.

India has problems. Heck I'm a Pakistani so I'll say that. But one thing India has we don't is good leaders who love India. Whatever I think about Modi the guy puts India first. He looks like a leader.

As I said read KBs old post since you're all about telling me to read. It sets out wonderfully why we are set between corrupt leaders and army rule and why India went onto become a democracy.

Trust me Indian politicians are as corrupt in fact I would say more corrupt than Pakistani ones.. However we do have some decent ones and Modi himself seems honest and seems to care about the country.. But state leaders are multi billionaires in terms of property and assets in black..

 

[the Great Khan]

I will have to look up the figures.But even if the figure is 1 its still important.

well I've been waiting for a long time. I can however give you the broad numbers on the other side, i.e. Pakistani victims of Indian sponsored terror. thats over 100k casualties. And those are the ones that have been counted.

Now hurry up and get me your figures or stop harping on about Pakistani sponsored terror. If there was a major campaign every Indian website and indian troll would be posting the numbers everywhere and screeching about it every western forum.

 

[Varun]

well I've been waiting for a long time. I can however give you the broad numbers on the other side, i.e. Pakistani victims of Indian sponsored terror. thats over 100k casualties. And those are the ones that have been counted.

India is all noise. When it comes to the pass, it is toothless to hurt a fly across any border. Pakistan is to blame for its casualties for getting into bed with the United States and Saudi Arabia - who would figure at the bottom of any list of countries one should choose to ally with.

The United States kicked off the Mujahideen and Taliban who are biting Pakistan and Afghanistan to this day. They are the ones who pelt drones without permission from the powers that matter in Pakistan. The Saudi Arabians are responsible for propagating a particular strain of the religion that is indoctrinating youths in Pakistan as we speak. They shelter (corrupt) Prime Ministers when the going gets tough for them and they need a break.

And let's not even get started on the age-old Shia - Sunni thing.

 

[cricketjoshila]

well I've been waiting for a long time. I can however give you the broad numbers on the other side, i.e. Pakistani victims of Indian sponsored terror. thats over 100k casualties. And those are the ones that have been counted.

Now hurry up and get me your figures or stop harping on about Pakistani sponsored terror. If there was a major campaign every Indian website and indian troll would be posting the numbers everywhere and screeching about it every western forum.

Can you tell me if that is the case as Pakistan claimed, why nothing happened to the so called Dossier given to UN?

Why no Indian organisation has been banned?

Even by the Pakistani narrative, India is supposedly helping TTP in Afghanistan. So why not take up the issue with the Afghans? Oh and the Baloch separatists live in Switzerland not India.

This is why no one gives two hoots about Pakistani claims.

 

[the Great Khan]

India is all noise. When it comes to the pass, it is toothless to hurt a fly across any border. Pakistan is to blame for its casualties for getting into bed with the United States and Saudi Arabia - who would figure at the bottom of any list of countries one should choose to ally with.


Unfortunatley this is an image sold to its own populace but we have the pools of blood and dead children that says otherwise. You cant blame the victims of terror for the terror inflicted on them. That is a cheap shot. The state has made mistakes but the majority of terror attacks in Pakistan were carried out by the TTP who as we have now learnt are full of new recruits and militants that were never part of the struggle against the soviets.
The United States kicked off the Mujahideen and Taliban who are biting Pakistan and Afghanistan to this day. They are the ones who pelt drones without permission from the powers that matter in Pakistan. The Saudi Arabians are responsible for propagating a particular strain of the religion that is indoctrinating youths in Pakistan as we speak. They shelter (corrupt) Prime Ministers when the going gets tough for them and they need a break.

You are correct to a minor extent but ultimately the enemy we are fighting has been nurtured across the border. Trained and then sent over the border to kill Pakistanis in their thousands. It is a time and tested method used since the late 40's and 50's. Pakistan has been fighting on the durand line since its inception. Orginally before we had the intelligence and the capability , we also thought as you do. We thought our chickens were coming home to roost as your quite clearly saying and revelling in. But after further engagements and examination it became quite clear that we were facing something quite different. You see when we defeated them in miranshah and having also faced the Massacre at Salala a few things just didnt add up. To cut a long story short your own media and papers are admitting that the TTP are an asset you are loathe to lose and we all know about the MQM. So yes we have made mistakes but those mistakes existed in 2002 right till 2007. But what changed in 2009?

And let's not even get started on the age-old Shia - Sunni thing.

You would be wise not to start that trope. COntrary to popular belief the two sides have been living in a integrated environment for hundreds of years. Yes tensions do arise from time to time and there have been sectarian issues in the past but to use the western protestant analogy would be unwise.

regards

 

[the Great Khan]

Can you tell me if that is the case as Pakistan claimed, why nothing happened to the so called Dossier given to UN?

Why no Indian organisation has been banned?

Even by the Pakistani narrative, India is supposedly helping TTP in Afghanistan. So why not take up the issue with the Afghans? Oh and the Baloch separatists live in Switzerland not India.

This is why no one gives two hoots about Pakistani claims.

I'm waiting for your numbers. Have you got them yet?
as for giving two hoots, erm its simply a known fact that is widely accepted now. You see the Salala massacre just changed everything. Hence why the silence from certain quarters lest things get revealed that they dont like.

 

[the Great Khan]

Can you tell me if that is the case as Pakistan claimed, why nothing happened to the so called Dossier given to UN?

Why no Indian organisation has been banned?

Even by the Pakistani narrative, India is supposedly helping TTP in Afghanistan. So why not take up the issue with the Afghans? Oh and the Baloch separatists live in Switzerland not India.

This is why no one gives two hoots about Pakistani claims.

oh and why hasnt an indian organisation been banned? well the problem is you elect leaders of said organisations to the highest office in the land so it becomes a diplomatic problem, hence something that is quite hard to do. I mean how do you ban organisations that are in essence embedded in the fabric of ones democracy? especially when you want to trade with this democracy?

 

[Varun]

Hey [MENTION=253]the Great Khan[/MENTION] - I've seen you mention the "Salala massacre" dozens of times across many years on this forum, and it seems you're the only one who does. I checked it out on Wikipedia to begin with and it's a lengthy garble of information that is difficult to dive into without knowing background information and the specifics.

Time permitting, I request you to start a thread with what's what on the subject and the rest of us can take a look at the circumstances, your opinion on the incident and draw our conclusions on the back of that. Cheers.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I'm waiting for your numbers. Have you got them yet?
as for giving two hoots, erm its simply a known fact that is widely accepted now. You see the Salala massacre just changed everything. Hence why the silence from certain quarters lest things get revealed that they dont like.

Widely accepted?By whom?I havent seen UN putting a sanction on any Indian organisation or Individual on Pakistan's request.Can you?

Numbers are immaterial.We are dealing with something called "Human Life" here, so even 1 is significant.But do you think if the numbers are less, then human life is expendable?

Didnt know India was involved in Salala?

 

[cricketjoshila]

oh and why hasnt an indian organisation been banned? well the problem is you elect leaders of said organisations to the highest office in the land so it becomes a diplomatic problem, hence something that is quite hard to do. I mean how do you ban organisations that are in essence embedded in the fabric of ones democracy? especially when you want to trade with this democracy?

Can you tell me when were these leaders elected to these offices?Why werent they banned before that?

Can you also tell me which terror incidents in Pakistan were these Organisations involved?

May be it hasnot crossed your mind but people calling an organisation a terror organisation online doesnt make it one.

 

[the Great Khan]

Hey [MENTION=253]the Great Khan[/MENTION] - I've seen you mention the "Salala massacre" dozens of times across many years on this forum, and it seems you're the only one who does. I checked it out on Wikipedia to begin with and it's a lengthy garble of information that is difficult to dive into without knowing background information and the specifics.

Time permitting, I request you to start a thread with what's what on the subject and the rest of us can take a look at the circumstances, your opinion on the incident and draw our conclusions on the back of that. Cheers.

ok, ill try and russle something up. the basic background is that the US were caught trying to infiltrate across the border disguised as taliban with other militants and were engaged. This lead to the deaths of 26 Pakistani troops and the short term end of the WOT for the US and JSOC. Nobody really talks about it because its so damning. And all of the information is in the public domain. No conspiracy theory required.

 

[the Great Khan]

Widely accepted?By whom?I havent seen UN putting a sanction on any Indian organisation or Individual on Pakistan's request.Can you?

Numbers are immaterial.We are dealing with something called "Human Life" here, so even 1 is significant.But do you think if the numbers are less, then human life is expendable?

Didnt know India was involved in Salala?

im not playing this game with you. The reason ive asked for numbers is to make a point. Give me the numbers and I'll make my point. But if you cant let me know and I'll make my point regardless.

as for organisations well, again I wont sit and argue a point that I have already spoken about on numerous occasions.

Coming onto salala well they may not have been but it did change the environment to such an extent that we are where we are because of it.

 

[Varun]

ok, ill try and russle something up. the basic background is that the US were caught trying to infiltrate across the border disguised as taliban with other militants and were engaged. This lead to the deaths of 26 Pakistani troops and the short term end of the WOT for the US and JSOC. Nobody really talks about it because its so damning. And all of the information is in the public domain. No conspiracy theory required.

Looking forward to the thread.

 

[Ocelot]

Peace with India is a charade.

During the whole 'bonhomie' years of 2004-2006, while they kept sending their cricket teams India used the opportunity to drastically increase their intelligence footprint in Pakistan. It's then when anti-Pak Taliban groups were created and terrorism commenced in Pak, it's then when Baloch insurgency started - most advanced weapons were recovered from Bugti's den that even Pak Army didn't have. Though I don't believe Manmohan Singh was aware of all this, he was a man who desired peace, it was an initiate of the Indian intelligence.

Personally I do want govt. to govt. relations and liberalisation of trade; visa policy should remain tough, cultural and people to people contacts should be kept to an absolute minimum, at least for decades to come.

 

[cricketjoshila]

im not playing this game with you. The reason ive asked for numbers is to make a point. Give me the numbers and I'll make my point. But if you cant let me know and I'll make my point regardless.

as for organisations well, again I wont sit and argue a point that I have already spoken about on numerous occasions.

Coming onto salala well they may not have been but it did change the environment to such an extent that we are where we are because of it.

1. Numbers dont change anything.Make your point please.

2. You wont speak about organisations because you have no rebuttal but consipracy theories.

3.Again, what changed after Salala?

 

[CricketCartoons]

No matter what, we Indians will always hate Pakistan. Just don't go by our pretensions that we are your well wishers. Would suggest everyone to stop deluding themselves that anything will change.

 

[the Great Khan]

1. Numbers dont change anything.Make your point please.

Heres the thing. Every Indian I talk to on the internet harps on about Pakistan's great terrorist campaign against India and its citizens. How Pakistan has been terrorising India since 1947 by sending turbaned militants across the border and killing scores of Indians via bombs and other such. The truth is the other way around. Since 2008 the total number of Indian civilians killed by Pakistani sponsored terror is..oh right you dont even have the numbers thats how small the numbers are. Yet if you look at the flip side the number of Pakistanis killed by Indian supported terror is in the thousands. Children, women, old people, soldiers,school children, murdered or maimed. Sectarian and political violence sponsored and then supported. Hell you've even killed pakistani citizens on Indian soil e.g. the samjota express murders. So my point is the whole pakistani terrorism mantra espoused by your state is simply propaganda. You dont have the real facts to back it up. Yes you can make up some stuff but ultimately the numbers don't lie.

2. You wont speak about organisations because you have no rebuttal but consipracy theories.

Actually i'd need a whole thread to go through this and then we would get into deep geopolitics and the world order etc. They are all linked to this idea of "banning" organisations while letting others off the hook. You see the RSS are a fascist organisation responsible for terorr attacks against civilians and pakistani citizens. There is no doubt about it. But they are not prescribed becasue they have nt attacked US interests. On the contrary they work for US interests and hence why they are not prescribed. Similar to some groups in Syria that are clearly crazy nutcases but are not terrorists. Also see the mujahideen in the 80's who by todays definition would be seen as terrorists but were not prescribed.

3.Again, what changed after Salala?

Again this could take a whole thread but the short version: After Salala American covert operations were wrapped up in Pakistan. They were told in no uncertain terms that the WOT was now going to be fought on Pakistans terms and if they had a problem with it well, they would have real issues in afghanistan. Not long after this massacre the american presence in afghanistan was , at first, ramped up slightly, but then wrapped up and outsourced by Obama. In other words any attempts to continue a low level insurgency within Pakistan was destroyed. The majority of covert work was outsourced to the NDS and their handlers from RAW. But they have now been soundly defeated. JSOC have been defeated for the time being but further plans remain live. The arrest of Kulbashan who was part of these outsourcing ops was also a major blow. Coupled with the destruction of the MQM's urban terror wings, major leverage against Pakistan has been whittled away.

So whats changed, well 46 billion chinese funding could only be confirmed once these ops were underway and covert ops were being carried out. Operations continue but the US will need to find another way to exert pressure on pakistan and our assets.

regards

 

[IndYeah1]

regards

What a bunch of unsubstantiated nonsense. Next you will be telling us that OBL was not in Abbotabad. And about that email sent to Jews before the WTC was attacked.

 

[jeetu]

I don't think Imran Khan will ever be strong enough to make decisions regarding India. Army chief will remain the person in charge.

 

[the Great Khan]

What a bunch of unsubstantiated nonsense. Next you will be telling us that OBL was not in Abbotabad. And about that email sent to Jews before the WTC was attacked.

everything is in the public domain. No conspiracy theories. The US had to apologise. They never do that.

 

[someone21]

Forget India, it's Pakistan themselves who need to answer first. Will their attitude change? Will they trust their democracy? Particular when no Pak PM has ever completed their full tenure. That's a very embarrassing fact.

 

[the Great Khan]

Forget India, it's Pakistan themselves who need to answer first. Will their attitude change? Will they trust their democracy? Particular when no Pak PM has ever completed their full tenure. That's a very embarrassing fact.

we'll beging to trust our democracy as soon as our PM stops trying to destroy law and order to protect his family..

 

[Varun]

#ItsComingHome

Hope the Indian side are ready with an initial handshake at the very least to get the ball rolling.

 

[Mian]

#ItsComingHome

Hope the Indian side are ready with an initial handshake at the very least to get the ball rolling.

Please hold your horses and don't jinx it we are still unable to forget 2013

 

[enkidu_]

Nothing will change, both nations have been built on fundamentally contradictory systems (Islam vs "secularism", which is giving its way to Hindu nationalism, as Jinnah already guessed way back.) Even with a "sympathetic" govt. (Sharif slaves), Modi-fied India will still play its tricks (internal strife, water issues, etc) because they perceive Pak (and a dozen of other countries) as illegitimate for having "stolen" parts of "Akhand Bharat".

If Imran Khan comes to power he should look to cement relations with countries like Turkey/Iran/Malaysia/China.

 

[slipcatch]

Nothing will change, both nations have been built on fundamentally contradictory systems (Islam vs "secularism", which is giving its way to Hindu nationalism, as Jinnah already guessed way back.) Even with a "sympathetic" govt. (Sharif slaves), Modi-fied India will still play its tricks (internal strife, water issues, etc) because they perceive Pak (and a dozen of other countries) as illegitimate for having "stolen" parts of "Akhand Bharat".

If Imran Khan comes to power he should look to cement relations with countries like Turkey/Iran/Malaysia/China.

This simple narrative is loss from Indian's mind when India speak of Pakistani army.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Expecting Modi-Imran Trophy every 2 years. It should have 5 tests, 5 ODI's and 1 T20(because pak are really good in this format).