How will the delay in visit visas to India effect Pakistan's ICC World Cup 2023 preparations?

[Energy]

It's quite unprofessional as they've obviously mixed politics with sport.

Small hearts.

 

[Devadwal]

When it comes to issuing an Indian visa to a Pakistan passport holder, clearances need to come from three ministries - home, external affairs and sports. That process takes time but it will happens

 

[MenInG]

When it comes to issuing an Indian visa to a Pakistan passport holder, clearances need to come from three ministries - home, external affairs and sports. That process takes time but it will happens

This is the Pakistan cricket team coming to your country for an ICC World Cup.

They are not coming to visit Taj Mahal.

 

[Thanos]

This is the Pakistan cricket team coming to your country for an ICC World Cup.

They are not coming to visit Taj Mahal.

I guess the process still remains the same.

 

[Devadwal]

This is the Pakistan cricket team coming to your country for an ICC World Cup.

They are not coming to visit Taj Mahal.

This is now how Visa process works for Indian government sir .Every country have own rule and they followed them as betterment for own People's .this is neither conspiracy theory or discrimination against Pakistan Cricket team.

 

[MenInG]

This is now how Visa process works for Indian government sir .Every country have own rule and they followed them as betterment for own People's .this is neither conspiracy theory or discrimination against Pakistan Cricket team.

There is discrimination against Pakistan.

You and I know well how Indian processes work, when they have to.

 

[Devadwal]

There are another thousands People's / Media personal who are Pakistani also applied for Visa for world cup

There is discrimination against Pakistan.

You and I know well how Indian processes work, when they have to.

It's your opinion so I don't have any problem. after 2008 Mumbai attacked everything is changed in india regrading Pakistani people's granting Visa for India .bolte h na Hindi m " doodh ka jala, chhanchh bhee phoonk phoonk ke peeta hain"

 

[MenInG]

There are another thousands People's / Media personal who are Pakistani also applied for Visa for world cup

It's your opinion so I don't have any problem. after 2008 Mumbai attacked everything is changed in india regrading Pakistani people's granting Visa for India .bolte h na Hindi m " doodh ka jala, chhanchh bhee phoonk phoonk ke peeta hain"

As they say in Urdu, "kuttay kee dum hamesha terhi rehtee hai" - India will not change.

 

[MenInG]

As per a news report, Pakistan squad will get their visas today.

 

[Devadwal]

As they say in Urdu, "kuttay kee dum hamesha terhi rehtee hai" - India will not change.

Same applied for Pakistan also

 

[MenInG]

Same applied for Pakistan also

We are NOT hosting this tournament - YOU are.

Can you understand the difference.

Think best you dont reply to this thread again unless you have something useful to say.

 

[Ali T]

Very unprofessional.
Indian board should leave politics out of this.
Clearly trying to make some sort of statement.

 

[owenhcricket]

Didn't know India couldn't organize an ICC tournament.

But we now know.

I've seen plenty of Indian cricket to know that they can't organise anything...plus the visa is just a ploy to make matters worse for Pakistan. I mean Moeen Ali was the last of the England players to receive his visa some time back and he isn't even Pakistani.

 

[shah9425]

As they say in Urdu, "kuttay kee dum hamesha terhi rehtee hai" - India will not change.

Perfect reply to this guy

 

[mikeypbadana86]

Very unprofessional.
Indian board should leave politics out of this.
Clearly trying to make some sort of statement.

I think, the government of india oversees the issuance process. Should have been same policy for every visiting team for icc 2023 worldcup.

 

[Ali T]

I think, the government of india oversees the issuance process. Should have been same policy for every visiting team for icc 2023 worldcup.

I guess the main question is when other teams applied for their visas and if they have gotten their approvals ?
If they haven't got their visa approvals yet, there probably isn't any bias against Pakistan, but if they have then there probably is.

 

[King_Babar]

World Cup or no world cup . Government have some policy and they follow their rules .even BCCI unable to solved tax issues with government. They are very strict about their rule .They follow the rules for any comman People's or VIP or VVIP.

The last sentence is lit . Since when Indian government started doing this

 

[Devadwal]

I think, the government of india oversees the issuance process. Should have been same policy for every visiting team for icc 2023 worldcup.

When Shahrukh Khan was going to America he was checked three time by American authority .Shahrukh Khan is more VVIP than Babar Azam and co . So every country has own rules and they followed them as simple as

 

[pratiktc]

This is the first time ICC is not organizing a world cup.

All the admin stuff, scheduling, ticketing, coordination and other donkey work is being done by BCCI who is obviously amateur at it and doesn't have the know-how. Bear in mind even IPL is not run by BCCI, but by separate governing council.

I don't think there is any malice in not giving PCT visas. Rather it is more of incompetence. A savvy organizing team would have foreseen this potential issue and lobbied way back in political/bureaucratic channels for expediting the PCT visas in particular. Quite likely this team did not do so and now they are reacting to the usual Indian systemic delays of Pak visas.

Let's not please jump to aggressive blaming or aggressive defending until facts prove otherwise.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Indian government should do Pakistan a favour and not give any visas, it will save the team an embarrassment of playing in a world cup they have zero chance of winning.

 

[Rajdeep]

I think this is the part you don’t understand. These brainwashed bharatis are told all Pakistanis are terrorists. Their own countrymen who are Muslims are terrorists. Those who burn Muslims in droves are merely defending themselves.

So from that angle, to them it’s perfectly normal there is a vetting process for an international sports team.

Though I agree BCCI managed this entire world cup very poorly but vetting process is done based on information in the database. Just bcoz it is a sports team, there can't be a different provision. Wasn't Shah Rukh Khan stopped multiple times in New York airport due to his surname popped up in the database? Just bcoz he is a superstar didn't mean there was a separate rule for him.

My personal opinion - I don't enjoy these ICC events being played in sub continent. There is just too much politics involved to enjoy the game seamlessly. Hopefully we get more global events in SENA going forward, especially in England (the best place to play cricket)

 

[King_Babar]

Indian government should do Pakistan a favour and not give any visas, it will save the team an embarrassment of playing in a world cup they have zero chance of winning.

Well Indian government can't do this, but what u can do is stop watching this team play in WC, that will save you from embarrassment.

 

[Kriketer]

You can vent your frustrations at me but you can read my post 10 times and will realise what i wrote is 100% what it is.

This is the unfortunate situation between the two nations and civilians must play a positive role in making this better in future.

This is why I always say Bharat Pakistan cricket should be permanently scrapped. To avoid such issues. It wasted our time and energy.

We wouldn't care less if its scrapped completely, but we being a mature nation (citizens, not government ofcourse) with common sense we know international sporting events cannot be simply scrapped, you will only make a fool out of yourself if you believe in that. Rather stop playing international sports and stick with local kabaddi or something. India Pakistan aren't the only ones with border issues, other sports and countries don't act childish like India, keep control of your emotions and tears and don't let it overshadow logic and common sense.

Despite India's contineuos terrorism in Pakistan, we can still distinguish the two as regular citizens, players and any sports in general have nothing to do with dirty politics

 

[Cricket Warrior]

According to a report:

PCB's letter to the ICC:

“We have been discussing this issue for three years,”

“No one paid attention to our concerns. And now the situation has gotten to the point where we are yet to receive visas."

“We are in a state of uncertainty due to ignorance of concerned authorities. We had to stay in Dubai for two days but due to this visa issue, we had to cancel that [trip].

“Whenever we contacted the concerned authority, we were told that the visas would be issued in 24 hours.

“And now, with every passing day, the uncertainty is increasing and it is worrying everyone.”

 

[Thanos]

The PCB sent a letter to ICC in which they raised their concerns and reminded the regulatory body about the Host-Member agreement.

“We have been discussing this issue for three years,” the letter stated. “No one paid attention to our concerns. And now the situation has gotten to the point where we are yet to receive visas.

“We are in a state of uncertainty due to ignorance of concerned authorities. We had to stay in Dubai for two days but due to this visa issue, we had to cancel that [trip].

“Whenever we contacted the concerned authority, we were told that the visas would be issued in 24 hours.

“And now, with every passing day, the uncertainty is increasing and it is worrying everyone.”

Earlier, it was reported that the Pakistan cricket squad is likely to get their Indian visas today ahead of their trip to the neighbouring country for ICC World Cup 2023.

Geo Super

Ohh. Now it may be delayed by one more day.

 

[Visaal-E-Yaar]

Bcci and affairs will work very hard and make sure pakistan will miss practice session which is scheduled on Thursday by 2pm.
Unprofessional stuff by ICC.

 

[Rajdeep]

Ohh. Now it may be delayed by one more day.

So are they not getting the Visa today?

 

[Yati]

Nothing new. The Racist Indian govt showing their true colors be it against the pakistan team or players of pakistani orgin playing for another country. This was expected. Pakistan should have just boycotted the world cup, but our govt doesn't have a backbone so we are reaping the rewards.

 

[PakPremi]

When Shahrukh Khan was going to America he was checked three time by American authority .Shahrukh Khan is more VVIP than Babar Azam and co . So every country has own rules and they followed them as simple as

SRK is no VVIP for uss, only forAsia and some Gulf countries. Babar Azam is a participating captain of an international team entering country for one reason only to participate in the biggest cricket event held by that country, so you expecting a visiting team captain and his team would be given easier access to visa, especially when they will be under security and surveillance most of the time if not all the time.

 

[ahmadharis1]

Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence

Maybe the indian government is just incompetent...

 

[PakPremi]

According to a report:

PCB's letter to the ICC:

“We have been discussing this issue for three years,”

“No one paid attention to our concerns. And now the situation has gotten to the point where we are yet to receive visas."

“We are in a state of uncertainty due to ignorance of concerned authorities. We had to stay in Dubai for two days but due to this visa issue, we had to cancel that [trip].

“Whenever we contacted the concerned authority, we were told that the visas would be issued in 24 hours.

“And now, with every passing day, the uncertainty is increasing and it is worrying everyone.”

Very weak letter, where is the mention that our players will be fatigued as they will arrive late to carry out effective practise sessions, this being a deliberate ploy to disadvantage team Pakistan. Pakistan will still have to travel via Dubai.

 

[Salman]

Imagine going to submit your players passports for their visa's and this slimy snake is working the visa counter.

 

[Salman]

Very weak letter, where is the mention that our players will be fatigued as they will arrive late to carry out effective practise sessions, this being a deliberate ploy to disadvantage team Pakistan. Pakistan will still have to travel via D

According to a report:

PCB's letter to the ICC:

“We have been discussing this issue for three years,”

“No one paid attention to our concerns. And now the situation has gotten to the point where we are yet to receive visas."

“We are in a state of uncertainty due to ignorance of concerned authorities. We had to stay in Dubai for two days but due to this visa issue, we had to cancel that [trip].

“Whenever we contacted the concerned authority, we were told that the visas would be issued in 24 hours.

“And now, with every passing day, the uncertainty is increasing and it is worrying everyone.”

It has to be fake letter, how would this stuff get leaked? If it's been published from an India source than it's hardly worth sharing here

 

[Devadwal]

The Pakistan team have received their Indian Visa. (News18).
Now focus on cricket only .

 

[Devadwal]

What was Pakistani cricket team orginal schedule( Date ) to fly from Lahore to UAE?

 

[Amjid Javed]

Well Indian government can't do this, but what u can do is stop watching this team play in WC, that will save you from embarrassment.

I have no intention of watching babar and imam selfishly batting for themselves and the team getting exposed for mediocre outfit it is. Pakistan will finish 5th at best in table.

So like I said Pakistan should save face and not turn up.

 

[Liverpool_Faizan]

I have no intention of watching babar and imam selfishly batting for themselves and the team getting exposed for mediocre outfit it is. Pakistan will finish 5th at best in table.

So like I said Pakistan should save face and not turn up.

What a weird and immature thing to say

 

[Devadwal]

I have no intention of watching babar and imam selfishly batting for themselves and the team getting exposed for mediocre outfit it is. Pakistan will finish 5th at best in table.

So like I said Pakistan should save face and not turn up.

No . Pakistan is very strong team in odi . Just forget about Asia cup even Australia is lost five matches on Trott. I'm backing Pakistan to reach in semi atleast .

 

[Devadwal]

As per a report, Pakistan have received their visit visa.

 

[Thanos]

So are they not getting the Visa today?

Don't know. I was just wondering if India will delay visas by one more day after this letter.

 

[Rajdeep]

The Pakistan team have received their Indian Visa. (News18).
Now focus on cricket only .

Always knew BCCI and Bharatiyas have got big heart.

Even said he gets more love in Bharat than back home during 2016 WT20.

People here were unnecessarily getting worried.

Welcome to Naya Bharat my dear Pak team

 

[FearlessRoar]

The ICC has confirmed the Indian government has approved the visas for the Pakistan squad travelling to the World Cup

 

[Amjid Javed]

No . Pakistan is very strong team in odi . Just forget about Asia cup even Australia is lost five matches on Trott. I'm backing Pakistan to reach in semi atleast .

Semi finals? Is that some sort of achievement?

 

[Devadwal]

Semi finals? Is that some sort of achievement?

first they have to reached semifinals to qualify for The Final . isn't it? After semifinals anyone can beat any teams. So first steps is qualify for semifinals

 

[shamaan]

Though I agree BCCI managed this entire world cup very poorly but vetting process is done based on information in the database. Just bcoz it is a sports team, there can't be a different provision. Wasn't Shah Rukh Khan stopped multiple times in New York airport due to his surname popped up in the database? Just bcoz he is a superstar didn't mean there was a separate rule for him.

My personal opinion - I don't enjoy these ICC events being played in sub continent. There is just too much politics involved to enjoy the game seamlessly. Hopefully we get more global events in SENA going forward, especially in England (the best place to play cricket)

Until the weather intervenes.

 

[Devadwal]

Afganistan team also gets Visa Today Along with Pakistan. But Afganistan doesn't make any issue .

 

[Babeikh]

Indian government should do Pakistan a favour and not give any visas, it will save the team an embarrassment of playing in a world cup they have zero chance of winning.

Nobody is forcing you to watch or follow the world cup. You can watch football, go fishing, run a couple of marathons, read, do a course, sleep etc if you are so worried about embarrassment then I suggest you avoid cricket for the next couple of months.

 

[Devadwal]

Now Pakistan can plan their schedule as per orginal Dates .Now they don't have any excuse if they can't perform well in india .

 

[mominsaigol]

As they say in Urdu, "kuttay kee dum hamesha terhi rehtee hai" - India will not change.

Bro that was hella Savage .

 

[Devadwal]

Pakistan applied for visas on September 19 . They gets in 4 days .it's not India fault that they applied so late . don't blame anything on India

 

[GLORY OF '92]

Pakistan applied for visas on September 19 . They gets in 4 days .it's not India fault that they applied so late . don't blame anything on India

Oh no precious India can never be blamed for anything ....

 

[Devadwal]

Oh no precious India can never be blamed for anything ....

Yes for without any fault .it's not a fault of India that they applied so late sir.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Pakistanis applied for visas on 19th.Got their visas on 25th. This includes a Sunday.

Why the hue and cry?

This crying victim for everything isn't going to work.

May be the expectation was that Jaishankar would stand at the gate of the High commission in Islamabad and stick the visas as soon as the passports arrived.

 

[MenInG]

Pakistanis applied for visas on 19th.Got their visas on 25th. This includes a Sunday.

Why the hue and cry?

This crying victim for everything isn't going to work.

May be the expectation was that Jaishankar would stand at the gate of the High commission in Islamabad and stick the visas as soon as the passports arrived.

The visa should have been granted in one day

There was no reason for this

As I said, Pakistan arent coming over to visit Taj Mahal

IF anything BCCI should have prearranged with the authorities

Farcical attempt at hosting a tournament of this magnitude.

 

[GLORY OF '92]

Pakistanis applied for visas on 19th.Got their visas on 25th. This includes a Sunday.

Why the hue and cry?

This crying victim for everything isn't going to work.

May be the expectation was that Jaishankar would stand at the gate of the High commission in Islamabad and stick the visas as soon as the passports arrived.

Neither is the bullying tactics. It should have been simple instead India once again showed it's petty nature.

 

[MenInG]

This is why PCB’s image has suffered and relations soured. Every time they create these dramas. It’s better if they don’t send a team rather.

Have some shame bro.

You want to hold a big tournament, then act big as well and not indulge in petty stuff.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Have some shame bro.

You want to hold a big tournament, then act big as well and not indulge in petty stuff.

Brother, you are wrongly alleging that Bharat is denying VISA to Pakistan team when we all know VISA will arrive soon. Your board has been late as always in applying.

 

[Major]

When Shahrukh Khan was going to America he was checked three time by American authority .Shahrukh Khan is more VVIP than Babar Azam and co . So every country has own rules and they followed them as simple as

wrong.

Shah Rukh Khan is not well known overseas. Desis know him but not foreign white people. For the airport guy he is just another person. Also this example is very stupid because that was an airport wait.

This is a visa issue.

 

[cricketjoshila]

The visa should have been granted in one day

There was no reason for this

As I said, Pakistan arent coming over to visit Taj Mahal

IF anything BCCI should have prearranged with the authorities

Farcical attempt at hosting a tournament of this magnitude.

Visas are not granted in a day. Never.

BCCI or anyone else cannot do anything about the process. Its the law and it will be followed.

ICC was assured that visas will be granted and they were granted within 5 days.

The commitment is to issue visas within reasonable time. Nowhere was any commitment made to issue visas within a day.

Since India will host 3 more ICC events in next 8 years, i suggest the expectations regarding bending of rules be tempered down.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Neither is the bullying tactics. It should have been simple instead India once again showed it's petty nature.

Getting visas in 5 days is bullying tactics. LoL.

 

[cricketjoshila]

wrong.

Shah Rukh Khan is not well known overseas. Desis know him but not foreign white people. For the airport guy he is just another person. Also this example is very stupid because that was an airport wait.

This is a visa issue.

Visa was given. In 5 days.

What's the issue?

 

[Major]

Brother, you are wrongly alleging that Bharat is denying VISA to Pakistan team when we all know VISA will arrive soon. Your board has been late as always in applying.

they have not been late. Stop making up stuff.

Usually, what happens is that PCB submits 30 players names for Visa so that if injury takes place and an emergency player is needed that player is called immediately. This is why ICC requests a probational 30 man list before its cut down to 15.

What i found funny was that so called cricket experts like Vikrant Gupta also believe that as soon as squad is announced of 15 man than visas are applied. Doesnt work that way.

PCB probably applied for visas most probably by 5th september or before.

 

[King_Babar]

I have no intention of watching babar and imam selfishly batting for themselves and the team getting exposed for mediocre outfit it is. Pakistan will finish 5th at best in table.

So like I said Pakistan should save face and not turn up.

Well why don't you approach to PCB and play instead of Babar and Imam with your super attacking approach. If Babar and Imam made it to the national team despite lacking skills then anyone can make it, right ?

 

[Major]

As they say in Urdu, "kuttay kee dum hamesha terhi rehtee hai" - India will not change.

this should be the post of the year.

they will defend anything when it comes to their country.

 

[Major]

This news was also covered in Canada, Toronto Star

 

[mikeypbadana86]

I don't enjoy these ICC events being played in sub continent.

Bro that was hella Savage .

Being an Indian from southern path(south india), I speak hindi/hindustani so fuleuntly. When i visited dubai some years ago, i ran into a pakistani cab driver and we conversed for about 45 mins non stop on pakistan cricket. I can converse with a pakistani than a gujarati or punjabi with out language barriers. We as nationes lived for centuries together and unfortunately the partition left us beyond repair.

Indians are friendly with srilanka. pakistanies friendly with srilanka but the sibling rivalry between ind and pak is unparalleled ( which is what the ind vs pak cricket craze is about) . Hopefully some day, there is normalacy and peace restored between the countries.

 

[GLORY OF '92]

Bro, Being a senior member of the forum, you should not be using such poor language , especially when referring to a nation in general.

Unfortunately it's well deserved by the petty actions of India over the past 15 years.

 

[pakistanbest]

Visas are not granted in a day. Never.

BCCI or anyone else cannot do anything about the process. Its the law and it will be followed.

ICC was assured that visas will be granted and they were granted within 5 days.

The commitment is to issue visas within reasonable time. Nowhere was any commitment made to issue visas within a day.

Since India will host 3 more ICC events in next 8 years, i suggest the expectations regarding bending of rules be tempered down.

Visas can be granted in a day, I got my visa for Australia (being a UK citizen) last year for the T20 World Cup within 30 minutes of submitting so it is possible and bare in mind my name is Mohammed and never been to Australia.

 

[I think therfore I am]

Visas can be granted in a day, I got my visa for Australia (being a UK citizen) last year for the T20 World Cup within 30 minutes of submitting so it is possible and bare in mind my name is Mohammed and never been to Australia.

Disgraceful and pathetic from India

 

[AMSS]

The visa should have been granted in one day

Yeah no. As we just saw, the pakkistan team is not some state guest - just another team enjoying the privilege of playing a WC in India.

They got their visa within 5 days which is the normal processing time.

 

[AMSS]

Of course, internationally it's well known that Pakistan passport is one of the worst to hold so their are bound to be additional background checks.

Just how things are.

 

[Major]

Visa delays take place when some unknown person is travelling to your country. You dont know with what purpose and why that person is going to your country. In sport events, a visa delay can be expected if the event is taking place in a first world country where the person might run away and live illegally. But even in that case, the person running away needs to be a lowkey athlete that no one can recognize by face.

In this case, everyone knows that these guys are going to India to play a World Cup that India wanted to host (which they are failing at). Its not as if no one knows why they are travelling there or what they would be doing. Plus, India is already a 3rd world dump that no sane person would even want to take refuge in. Even the players will want to just win the world cup and be back in shortest of period, knowing how bad the dietary issue is going to be for them, where they wont be able to consume meat.

 

[Major]

Yeah no. As we just saw, the pakkistan team is not some state guest - just another team enjoying the privilege of playing a WC in India.

They got their visa within 5 days which is the normal processing time.

India has the privilege of HOSTING the WC. The member countries playing is not a privilege as they qualified through performance.

 

[mominsaigol]

I don't enjoy these ICC events being played in sub continent.

Being an Indian from southern path(south india), I speak hindi/hindustani so fuleuntly. When i visited dubai some years ago, i ran into a pakistani cab driver and we conversed for about 45 mins non stop on pakistan cricket. I can converse with a pakistani than a gujarati or punjabi with out language barriers. We as nationes lived for centuries together and unfortunately the partition left us beyond repair.

Indians are friendly with srilanka. pakistanies friendly with srilanka but the sibling rivalry between ind and pak is unparalleled ( which is what the ind vs pak cricket craze is about) . Hopefully some day, there is normalacy and peace restored between the countries.

I live I'm Australia bro, and have Tons of Indian friends. Literally zero animosity over here.

Then again I don't know how indians living in India and pakistani living in Pakistan treat each other.

But over here it's all chill, we hardly ever talk about political stuff, we usually talk about cricket, movies, TV shows and all that other stuff.

 

[rpant_gabba]

PCB probably applied for visas most probably by 5th september or before.

Have you ever applied for a visa without a passport?

If Pak team applied for India visa before 5th, how did they travel around for asia cup?

 

[pakistanbest]

Improve your visa rating to get visa as soon as. The Pakistani passport is currently ranked 109th among global passports

Learn to be better sporting hosts, if you are hosting a World Cup, at the very least get the basics right!

 

[AMSS]

India has the privilege of HOSTING the WC. The member countries playing is not a privilege as they qualified through performance.

You posting on this forum is a privilege, that has been provided.

Correct, India earned the privilege of hosting the WC on the basis of its cricketing ecosystem and the trust of wider international community who chose to give India the hosting right....and again in 2031.

Similarly, participating countries know it's a privilege to play in India.

Unfortunately, visa granting system is not the same for all countries. Some passports are ranked higher and unfortunately for the Pakkistan team they rank very low owing to low trust of the international community. Still, India being the good neighbor granted the visa within 5 days.

 

[mominsaigol]

Why are all of you at each others throats? Pakistani or Indians what does it matter? We're normies, we ain't the goverment, so stop talking about privileges lol.

The Indian government being lousy doesn't mean that the Indians on this forumn themselves are lousy people. Same goes for us, pakistani visa's being ranked 109th or whatever doesn't mean that pakistani people themselves are 3rd class citizens lol.

Just respect and enjoy the game of cricket.

 

[SalimBhai]

World Cup or no world cup . Government have some policy and they follow their rules .even BCCI unable to solved tax issues with government. They are very strict about their rule .They follow the rules for any comman People's or VIP or VVIP.

Stop digging when you are in a hole

 

[Devadwal]

Learn to be better sporting hosts, if you are hosting a World Cup, at the very least get the basics right!

Has anyone complained apart from Pakistan? No