How would India have done had Rohit Sharma been captain in Limited Overs instead of Virat Kohli?

[Hasan123]

Rohit Sharma has shown for many years in the IPL that he is a terrific captain. Leading from the front with the bat,tactically very good, and a good man manager of players. Players seem to enjoy playing under him and MI rarely panic in the pressure games under his leadership.

Whilst India have won a lot of games under Kohli in LO, there have been question marks about his tactics and selections.

Would Rohit Sharma being made LO captain instead of Kohli meant India succeeded in ICC tournaments or would India still have fallen short?

 

[volcyz]

Would’ve been a lot better

 

[pillionrider]

The CT final vs Pakistan might have been different for a start. The way the team slowly fell apart in the field after the no-ball, with no answers, just going through the motions, and waiting for the chase basically.

In the IPL, over the last 5-6 years, I've watched mostly only the big games involving MI, and Rohit as a captain in the knockouts is way way ahead of Kohli in terms of how he handles a bowler who's feeling the heat. His field settings and plans work with the kind of accuracy that Dhoni's used to. It looks like luck from the outside, but there's something else going on there that's purely based on cricketing fact and instincts.

The CT Final is the first time I started doubting Kohli the captain. He looked so incredibly tense before the game. India were expected to win the game. There was nothing to show for, in Pakistan's previous performances. And yet I remember messaging friends saying I was getting a bad feeling looking at Kohli. Those are the vibes a team like Pakistan feeds on and lifts them to levels even they don't know they're capable of. Would Rohit have been chilled out. Maybe not. But he would have been more involved when India were bowling and not just waiting for - give us the score and we'll try to chase it thing that Kohli had to offer.

This was the biggest of all the ICC games Kohli has captained to failure. The rest are even more clearly in favor of Rohit winning them. In the semi vs NZ, there's no way he'd have let the whims and fancies of Dhoni decide the batting order. Who sends potential finishers like Hardik, Pant, DK ahead of a struggling Dhoni. The game was perfectly set up for Dhoni to come in and take his time fidgeting around.

 

[Mesozoic]

Would've won atleast one ICC tournament out of the two Kohli captained us in. Would have surely won the CT final at the toss itself by deciding to bat first.

Would have done a much better job of developing that no.4 position and the middle order. May have taken us atleast to the final in the recent world cup.

 

[Mesozoic]

In the semi vs NZ, there's no way he'd have let the whims and fancies of Dhoni decide the batting order. Who sends potential finishers like Hardik, Pant, DK ahead of a struggling Dhoni. The game was perfectly set up for Dhoni to come in and take his time fidgeting around.

Great point. Rohit would not have allowed that farce of a batting order. And he may have picked a wicket taker like Shami for that game and the story would have been completely different.

 

[Mesozoic]

If Kohli was the captain in that Nidahas trophy and the Asia cup, we would have surely lost those finals as well.

 

[HappyWarsFan]

If Kohli was the captain in that Nidahas trophy and the Asia cup, we would have surely lost those finals as well.

Remember when Kohli Captained vs Pakist in the 2014 Asia cup and let Ashwin bowl the final over, who then let Afridi finish the last over off? India missed out on qualifying for the finals because of that.

 

[Ab Fan]

Kohli is a poor LO captain, Rohit is far better. I think time has come to remove the burden of LO captaincy from Kohli and give it to Rohit.

Kohli can focus on test captaincy.

 

[sharmaji]

Much better. Kohli is a poor captain, unnecessary alpha aggression causes stress in the team, I have worked with such managers before, they are horrible. Whereas Rohit seems relaxed, there is a good vibe of planning, players look confident and some unlikely players emerge as superstars (Sky, Ishan Kishan, Pandyas, Pattinson, QDK) every season.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

I don't think Sir Virat Kohli will play under any other captain now. We have to wait for Kohli the batsman to flop to remove him from captaincy. Nobody takes his fake aggression seriously anyway.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Much better. Kohli is a poor captain, unnecessary alpha aggression causes stress in the team, I have worked with such managers before, they are horrible. Whereas Rohit seems relaxed, there is a good vibe of planning, players look confident and some unlikely players emerge as superstars (Sky, Ishan Kishan, Pandyas, Pattinson, QDK) every season.

Sky?

 

[kukkad kamaal]

Suryakumar yadav

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Suryakumar yadav

Nice nickname.

 

[Mesozoic]

Remember when Kohli Captained vs Pakist in the 2014 Asia cup and let Ashwin bowl the final over, who then let Afridi finish the last over off? India missed out on qualifying for the finals because of that.

Yeah numerous such examples.

Playing Ashwin and Jadeja against Pakistan in the final by dropping Umesh who did well against them earlier in the tournament....

Opting to bowl in an ICC final

Not playing shami in the semi against NZ when he was averaging 13 (the best bowling average in the tournament).

Playing three wicket keepers (Pant, DK, Dhoni) in the same game.

Breaking up the Kuldeep/Chahal combo in the middle of the tournament.

The list goes on....

 

[Hasan123]

I don't think Sir Virat Kohli will play under any other captain now. We have to wait for Kohli the batsman to flop to remove him from captaincy. Nobody takes his fake aggression seriously anyway.

I agree. I don't see Kohli playing under another captain now.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

What about your comment that "Pakistanis will turn against Babar the same way Indians have turned against Kohli" in the other thread?

If calling out Kohli is turning against him, then we Indians should be kneeling down in front of him for the privilege of him captaining us.

Atleast Mamoon bhai will be happy.

 

[Hasan123]

What about your comment that "Pakistanis will turn against Babar the same way Indians have turned against Kohli" in the other thread?

If calling out Kohli is turning against him, then we Indians should be kneeling down in front of him for the privilege of him captaining us.

Atleast Mamoon bhai will be happy.

I think Kohli has to take some responsibility for not winning a tournament but some Indians act like he is solely responsible. In the semi final Rohit , Pant, KL , and Pandya were all a let down yet Kohli got all the blame.

Also you made the comment that if Kohli is captain for the next World T20 you will support West Indies. I have issues with the way Pakistan select and perform. But you won't hear me say something like that.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I think Kohli has to take some responsibility for not winning a tournament but some Indians act like he is solely responsible. In the semi final Rohit , Pant, KL , and Pandya were all a let down yet Kohli got all the blame.

Also you made the comment that if Kohli is captain for the next World T20 you will support West Indies. I have issues with the way Pakistan select and perform. But you won't hear me say something like that.

Ok let's debate.

Why do you think those people were a let down?

1. Were you aware of the processes used to find number 4?

2. Why was a perfectly good coach ejected while a cheerleader was installed?

3. What was the process behind backing Rayudu for years and then dumping him before the WC for Vijay Shankar (note: I am neither calling for them to be added or be left out but the process behind it)

4. What was the process behind dropping Shami for 2 important knockouts (CT 2017 and WC 2019)?

5. What kind of strategy was made to ensure India could recover post a top order collapse in a high pressure game?

Also while you are at it, please do explain the following too:

1. Why has RCB under-performed so much when they had enough money backing and quality coaches?

2. Why do RCB players perform better AFTER leaving that franchise?

3. Why has RCB never figured out a solution for their batting after Kohli and ABD even after a gazzilion auctions and coach changes?

Let me know your responses to this and we will continue.

Easy to make a sweeping statement bhai...but you gotta sit and reflect.

I am more than happy to debate it.

Also you made the comment that if Kohli is captain for the next World T20 you will support West Indies. I have issues with the way Pakistan select and perform. But you won't hear me say something like that.

Meh.

"If you can't be with me in my worst phase, you don't deserve to be in my best phase."

"Don't point fingers at others. If you do, other 4 fingers are pointing towards you."

Yeh baacchon jesi dialogues are nice and good but think about the LEVEL to which people must be frustrated to not support a team. By the way, they aren't withdrawing support cos the team isn't playing well but due to the self sabotaging moves with no accountability systems in place.

Anyways let me know your answers to my question and we will move forward.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Ok let's debate.

By reading your posts it feels like Kohli has lost us atleast half a dozen ICC Trophies
Why do people fail to realize that the guy has just captained india in two icc tournaments,getting to the final in one and semis in the other.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

By reading your posts it feels like Kohli has lost us atleast half a dozen ICC Trophies
Why do people fail to realize that the guy has just captained india in two icc tournaments,getting to the final in one and semis in the other.

Because our team is so good.

And top 3 does the job.

A half dead monkey could captain the team to finals.

Kohli's job is to build a team that has depth so that if our top order wobbles we have something in place.

Now whether he does it or not is NOT the issue but how he does it.

Forgot how he handled the entire process?

Rayudu, shubman gill, DK, Vijay Shankar, etc, etc...

You could see the SF fiasco happening a million miles away and there are verifiable posts here in PP.

But if you feel he has captained India you to a SF and a Final... And that deserves praise... By all means go ahead.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

We lost the SF 2019 due to poor planning. - Fans

We lost SF 2019 due to a bad 30 mins of play. - Shastri

Both statements are true.

Make of it what you will.

 

[Hasan123]

Ok let's debate.

Why do you think those people were a let down?

1. Were you aware of the processes used to find number 4?

2. Why was a perfectly good coach ejected while a cheerleader was installed?

3. What was the process behind backing Rayudu for years and then dumping him before the WC for Vijay Shankar (note: I am neither calling for them to be added or be left out but the process behind it)

4. What was the process behind dropping Shami for 2 important knockouts (CT 2017 and WC 2019)?

5. What kind of strategy was made to ensure India could recover post a top order collapse in a high pressure game?

Also while you are at it, please do explain the following too:

1. Why has RCB under-performed so much when they had enough money backing and quality coaches?

2. Why do RCB players perform better AFTER leaving that franchise?

3. Why has RCB never figured out a solution for their batting after Kohli and ABD even after a gazzilion auctions and coach changes?

Let me know your responses to this and we will continue.

Easy to make a sweeping statement bhai...but you gotta sit and reflect.

I am more than happy to debate it.



Meh.

"If you can't be with me in my worst phase, you don't deserve to be in my best phase."

"Don't point fingers at others. If you do, other 4 fingers are pointing towards you."

Yeh baacchon jesi dialogues are nice and good but think about the LEVEL to which people must be frustrated to not support a team. By the way, they aren't withdrawing support cos the team isn't playing well but due to the self sabotaging moves with no accountability systems in place.

Anyways let me know your answers to my question and we will move forward.

1. India tried plenty of options for number 4. The problem was they never gave a person a set run of games and also if someone doesn't perform you can't just say " oh it's the captains fault ". At the end of the day Kohli isn't batting for them. He should have backed 1 player and not selected many.

2. Kohli and Kumble could not get on for whatever reason. Obviously that should not be a reason to get rid of a coach as the results were decent under Kumble. The problem is actually appointing Shastri when BCCI have the resources to attract one of the top coaches in the world. It looks as though Kohli wanted Shastri, I don't agree with that at all as Shastri is not a top level coach.

3 . They probably thought Rayaudu wasn't upto the job. But it was harsh to drop him for the squad.

4. I think I said at the time Shami should have not been dropped. Lol not sure why your asking me that when I have said that was the wrong decision anyway.

5. So it's a captain responsibility to tell every batter how to bat in a situation? These players don't have a brain on how to bat in depending on game situation?

I won't get into the RCB stuff because I think the whole recruitment and atmosphere at RCB is a big issue.


Everyone gets frustrated when there team doesn't do well . It doesn't mean you support another team because of 1 player. At the end of the day there are still 10 other players in the team who deserve your support.

I will not disagree Kohli has made some awful selections and how he handles big games is a problem. My problem is how he is the only 1 you want to hold accountable. You win as a team and lose as a team. You can't just blame 1 man and let 10 others get away with it.

I think RCB should replace Kohli as captain as he has had enough opportunities and hasn't lived upto expectations. But don't just magically expect RCB to win the IPL with Kohli gone as captain.

The only problem with getting rid of Kohli as LO captain is who will be the replacement? Rohit is 33 with poor fitness. It's a question mark whether he can make the next WC. Don't see Rahul and Iyer as captains of the national side.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Because our team is so good.

And top 3 does the job.

A half dead monkey could captain the team to finals.

Kohli's job is to build a team that has depth so that if our top order wobbles we have something in place.

Now whether he does it or not is NOT the issue but how he does it.

Forgot how he handled the entire process?

Rayudu, shubman gill, DK, Vijay Shankar, etc, etc...

You could see the SF fiasco happening a million miles away and there are verifiable posts here in PP.

But if you feel he has captained India you to a SF and a Final... And that deserves praise... By all means go ahead.

Nah SIF this is an illogical argument ,how can your team destroy every other team in league phase and then when knockout arrives we fail.
Is it that Kohli is a good captain in league phase but not in knockouts?

The one and only reason behind India losing the last two knockouts under kohli is that we are producing flat track bullies and limited over hacks who can't put bat on ball when the ball moves an inch(the two time we lost in knockouts the ball was moving and that was our downfall) and this is not just a half cooked theory there's a proof of that unlike your theory.

Rohit Sharma is a lousy captain ,people who suggest that he is tactically great are just ranting after seeing the results of IPL. Mi has bumrah,boult and pattinson now tell me how many franchises have such a powerful attack similarly they have krunal at no.8 so probably the best batting lineup too.Pollard showed us that this team doesnt need the tactical acumen of Sharma to win(when he was out injured)
.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

I see absolutely no changes even if we had Rohit Sharma.

The ball would still have moved ,Rohit cant bat against swing same case for dhawan ,Kohli would have failed too against that magical amir delivery or boults delivery.

Indian Fan who think that we have a perfect team are living in la la land.Too many FTBS in there with just one world class players.We will win a trophy when we have some good middle order bats who can hold a bat against swing and seam.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

2. Kohli and Kumble could not get on for whatever reason. Obviously that should not be a reason to get rid of a coach as the results were decent under Kumble. The problem is actually appointing Shastri when BCCI have the resources to attract one of the top coaches in the world. It looks as though Kohli wanted Shastri, I don't agree with that at all as Shastri is not a top level coach.

Why people think that Kumble was a good coach?There's nothing to suggest that,Just look at his team's performance in IPL.Dull coach

 

[Hasan123]

Why people think that Kumble was a good coach?There's nothing to suggest that,Just look at his team's performance in IPL.Dull coach

I think he started off well , probably needed longer before we could judge him. He is certainly better than Shastri.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

1. India tried plenty of options for number 4. The problem was they never gave a person a set run of games and also if someone doesn't perform you can't just say " oh it's the captains fault ". At the end of the day Kohli isn't batting for them. He should have backed 1 player and not selected many.

2. Kohli and Kumble could not get on for whatever reason. Obviously that should not be a reason to get rid of a coach as the results were decent under Kumble. The problem is actually appointing Shastri when BCCI have the resources to attract one of the top coaches in the world. It looks as though Kohli wanted Shastri, I don't agree with that at all as Shastri is not a top level coach.

3 . They probably thought Rayaudu wasn't upto the job. But it was harsh to drop him for the squad.

4. I think I said at the time Shami should have not been dropped. Lol not sure why your asking me that when I have said that was the wrong decision anyway.

5. So it's a captain responsibility to tell every batter how to bat in a situation? These players don't have a brain on how to bat in depending on game situation?

I won't get into the RCB stuff because I think the whole recruitment and atmosphere at RCB is a big issue.


Everyone gets frustrated when there team doesn't do well . It doesn't mean you support another team because of 1 player. At the end of the day there are still 10 other players in the team who deserve your support.

I will not disagree Kohli has made some awful selections and how he handles big games is a problem. My problem is how he is the only 1 you want to hold accountable. You win as a team and lose as a team. You can't just blame 1 man and let 10 others get away with it.

I think RCB should replace Kohli as captain as he has had enough opportunities and hasn't lived upto expectations. But don't just magically expect RCB to win the IPL with Kohli gone as captain.

The only problem with getting rid of Kohli as LO captain is who will be the replacement? Rohit is 33 with poor fitness. It's a question mark whether he can make the next WC. Don't see Rahul and Iyer as captains of the national side.

Thank you for this.

1. India tried plenty of options for number 4. The problem was they never gave a person a set run of games and also if someone doesn't perform you can't just say " oh it's the captains fault ". At the end of the day Kohli isn't batting for them. He should have backed 1 player and not selected many.

You say players should be backed.

And then you say he did chop and change.

So which one is it bhai?

Make up your mind lol.

Meanwhile, do you know how the career trajectories of Yuvi, Raina and Gambo played out (our WC winners)?

They didn't come and start winning the cups.

In fact, they were very inconsistent.

But team let them grow while others took on responsibility.

In India, now you want Pant, Hardik and co to immediately go and win you a cup when past WC winners couldn't do it too.

Top 3 will play and score all the easy runs and if there's a wobble, the youngsters have to soak all the pressure and win the team.

If not, then how can you blame KOhli?

Really?

By the way, you know what was the score when Pant walked in in SF?

5-3.

Him and Hardik did fight.

Hardik was the STAR of CT 2017.

But they TECHNICALLY flopped by not winning the game on their own when the top 3 scored a grand total of 5 runs so Kohli cannot be blamed.

Right?

2. Kohli and Kumble could not get on for whatever reason. Obviously that should not be a reason to get rid of a coach as the results were decent under Kumble. The problem is actually appointing Shastri when BCCI have the resources to attract one of the top coaches in the world. It looks as though Kohli wanted Shastri, I don't agree with that at all as Shastri is not a top level coach.

You and me agree on this.

3 . They probably thought Rayaudu wasn't upto the job. But it was harsh to drop him for the squad.

Then why continue with him for so many years?

Not like he had the stats (of scoring fast) in domestic? He would score but score slow.

Whose decision is to to keep him for years?

Did Kohli forget there was a WC?

Seeing a pattern here bhai?

4. I think I said at the time Shami should have not been dropped. Lol not sure why your asking me that when I have said that was the wrong decision anyway.

Who said I am blaming you bhai?

But whose decision was it to drop Shami that TOO after the CT 2017 fiasco?

Seeing a pattern here?

5. So it's a captain responsibility to tell every batter how to bat in a situation? These players don't have a brain on how to bat in depending on game situation?

Yes, they should come.

Play top cricket in the toughest of conditions once top 3 scores the easy runs.

Win the cup.

If they don't, then how can Kohli teach them how to bat?

They must do it themselves.

I guess Tendulkar, Ganguly, Dravid and Dhoni were complete idiots to back players in LOI who eventually won them the cup.

I think RCB should replace Kohli as captain as he has had enough opportunities and hasn't lived upto expectations. But don't just magically expect RCB to win the IPL with Kohli gone as captain.

Why exactly has the RCB flop kept happening?

Seeing a pattern again?

By the way, NO ONE expects RCB to magically win after Kohli leaves captaincy.

But chances are team will do better.

Check RCB performance BEFORE Kohli was the captain.

They almost won the IPL. Runners up.

The only problem with getting rid of Kohli as LO captain is who will be the replacement? Rohit is 33 with poor fitness. It's a question mark whether he can make the next WC. Don't see Rahul and Iyer as captains of the national side.

Ahh..the TINA (there is no alternative) factor again.

So let's continue with Kohli.

If by chance Rahul and Iyer flop in IPL captaincy, let's continue with Kohli cos there's TINA with no newbies being good captain.

Rohit has won IPL 5 times but dude is 33....so can't be captain cos if he loses his game before WC 2023, what will we do.

Let's keep Kohli.

------

Sorry bud. I don't mean to be snippy at you.

Your views are the same as mine for almost everything in this issue yet you sticking to Kohli for God knows what reason.

The more we talk about team selection, strategy, tactics, planning, long term thinking...the more idiotic Kohli is going to look.

I haven't even SCRATCHED the surface.

Can Kohli win an ICC trophy for India?

Hell yes cos the team is good.

But will he be the one responsible for the victory?

Highly doubt it.

Is India sabotaging himself by keeping him as captain in LOI?

Hell yeah.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I see absolutely no changes even if we had Rohit Sharma.

The ball would still have moved ,Rohit cant bat against swing same case for dhawan ,Kohli would have failed too against that magical amir delivery or boults delivery.

Indian Fan who think that we have a perfect team are living in la la land.Too many FTBS in there with just one world class players.We will win a trophy when we have some good middle order bats who can hold a bat against swing and seam.

You have been in this forum enough to know someone's view.

How can you get it so wrong?

Who said we would have won WC 2019 JUST by changing the captain.

The process of selecting the right team that isn't fully dependent on the top 3 is what is the captain's job.

The journey starts YEARS before the WC.

Not on the WC match day.

Sure call all these players FTB...but go back and see how our WC winning team was actually built and the our entire journey.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Nah SIF this is an illogical argument ,how can your team destroy every other team in league phase and then when knockout arrives we fail.
Is it that Kohli is a good captain in league phase but not in knockouts?

The one and only reason behind India losing the last two knockouts under kohli is that we are producing flat track bullies and limited over hacks who can't put bat on ball when the ball moves an inch(the two time we lost in knockouts the ball was moving and that was our downfall) and this is not just a half cooked theory there's a proof of that unlike your theory.

Rohit Sharma is a lousy captain ,people who suggest that he is tactically great are just ranting after seeing the results of IPL. Mi has bumrah,boult and pattinson now tell me how many franchises have such a powerful attack similarly they have krunal at no.8 so probably the best batting lineup too.Pollard showed us that this team doesnt need the tactical acumen of Sharma to win(when he was out injured)
.

#27.

Read it.

I predicted the SF fiasco literally years back. So did many many others.

Yesterday MI destroyed DD after coasting the entire IPL.

Do you think they just started their journey yesterday?

It started nearly 10 years back.

The processes, systems, team, culture, mindset, definition of player roles, startegy....all contrubuted to the win.

You can't slog the day before an exam... and fail in it...and then say what could I havedone better? I studied for 18 hours the last day.

 

[Hasan123]

Thank you for this.



You say players should be backed.

And then you say he did chop and change.

So which one is it bhai?

Make up your mind lol.

Meanwhile, do you know how the career trajectories of Yuvi, Raina and Gambo played out (our WC winners)?

They didn't come and start winning the cups.

In fact, they were very inconsistent.

But team let them grow while others took on responsibility.

In India, now you want Pant, Hardik and co to immediately go and win you a cup when past WC winners couldn't do it too.

Top 3 will play and score all the easy runs and if there's a wobble, the youngsters have to soak all the pressure and win the team.

If not, then how can you blame KOhli?

Really?

By the way, you know what was the score when Pant walked in in SF?

5-3.

Him and Hardik did fight.

Hardik was the STAR of CT 2017.

But they TECHNICALLY flopped by not winning the game on their own when the top 3 scored a grand total of 5 runs so Kohli cannot be blamed.

Right?



You and me agree on this.



Then why continue with him for so many years?

Not like he had the stats (of scoring fast) in domestic? He would score but score slow.

Whose decision is to to keep him for years?

Did Kohli forget there was a WC?

Seeing a pattern here bhai?



Who said I am blaming you bhai?

But whose decision was it to drop Shami that TOO after the CT 2017 fiasco?

Seeing a pattern here?



Yes, they should come.

Play top cricket in the toughest of conditions once top 3 scores the easy runs.

Win the cup.

If they don't, then how can Kohli teach them how to bat?

They must do it themselves.

I guess Tendulkar, Ganguly, Dravid and Dhoni were complete idiots to back players in LOI who eventually won them the cup.



Why exactly has the RCB flop kept happening?

Seeing a pattern again?

By the way, NO ONE expects RCB to magically win after Kohli leaves captaincy.

But chances are team will do better.

Check RCB performance BEFORE Kohli was the captain.

They almost won the IPL. Runners up.



Ahh..the TINA (there is no alternative) factor again.

So let's continue with Kohli.

If by chance Rahul and Iyer flop in IPL captaincy, let's continue with Kohli cos there's TINA with no newbies being good captain.

Rohit has won IPL 5 times but dude is 33....so can't be captain cos if he loses his game before WC 2023, what will we do.

Let's keep Kohli.

------

Sorry bud. I don't mean to be snippy at you.

Your views are the same as mine for almost everything in this issue yet you sticking to Kohli for God knows what reason.

The more we talk about team selection, strategy, tactics, planning, long term thinking...the more idiotic Kohli is going to look.

I haven't even SCRATCHED the surface.

Can Kohli win an ICC trophy for India?

Hell yes cos the team is good.

But will he be the one responsible for the victory?

Highly doubt it.

Is India sabotaging himself by keeping him as captain in LOI?

Hell yeah.

India should have selected KL Rahul as 4 and just backed him. He wasn't going to break into the top 3 so they should have backed him at 4. Rayadu did have a decent record but he obviously wasn't a top class player. After giving him a lot of chances dropping him for the WC was harsh.

Kohli has made mistakes tactically and in terms of selections. I will not disagree with that. Just in a team sport I don't like solely blaming 1 person.


If Rohit is definitely going to make the 2023 WC , make him captain by all means. But I worry he won't make it till then . The next captain of India needs to be captain for the long term.

What do you think of Iyer and KL captaincy? They didn't impress me too much in the IPL.

Also you have to remember Kohli is the face of Indian cricket, it won't be easy for him at this stage of his career to play not as captain.

Who would you replace him with as captain?

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

India should have selected KL Rahul as 4 and just backed him. He wasn't going to break into the top 3 so they should have backed him at 4. Rayadu did have a decent record but he obviously wasn't a top class player. After giving him a lot of chances dropping him for the WC was harsh.

Kohli has made mistakes tactically and in terms of selections. I will not disagree with that. Just in a team sport I don't like solely blaming 1 person.


If Rohit is definitely going to make the 2023 WC , make him captain by all means. But I worry he won't make it till then . The next captain of India needs to be captain for the long term.

What do you think of Iyer and KL captaincy? They didn't impress me too much in the IPL.

Also you have to remember Kohli is the face of Indian cricket, it won't be easy for him at this stage of his career to play not as captain.

Who would you replace him with as captain?

Nobody is blaming KOhli as the SOLE reason for loss bhai.

There are many reasons.

Just that with Kohli, we almost never had a chance.

We needed the perfect game with our top 3 firing to win and in a WC, that won't happen.

I used to give this example a lot and let me repeat it again:

Indian batting lineup for 2011 WC was the GREATEST we have ever assembled. Its one of the greatest ODI lineups in history too.

Sehwag
Sachin
Gambo
Kohli
Yuvi
Dhoni
Raina

This was our top 7.

Yet, it took the last bit of MENTAL ENERGY of every single one of these 7 players for us to win the WC.

Even if a SINGLE batsman hadn't done his part, we wouldn't have won the 2011 WC.

QF - Sehwag, Sachin, Yuvi, Raina (mainly Yuvi)
SF - Tendu, Raina (with tail)
Finals - Openers gone. Gambo and Kohli 100 run partnership was WORTH its weight in gold. Then Dhoni clicked.

Remove a single bat and we would have lost the WC.

Now compare that to 2019 WC.

Get the top 3 out (no Dhawan too due to injury I guess)...and you were done.

We never stood a chance bro.

You could see it from the moon lol.

-----

As for now, Rohit should become the captain. He deserves it.

If he loses his touch before WC, we will make whoever is worthy then as the captain. KL or Iyer or whoever it may be.

That's how professional organizations are run and that's how it should be.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Rohit Sharma is a lousy captain ,people who suggest that he is tactically great are just ranting after seeing the results of IPL. Mi has bumrah,boult and pattinson now tell me how many franchises have such a powerful attack similarly they have krunal at no.8 so probably the best batting lineup too.Pollard showed us that this team doesnt need the tactical acumen of Sharma to win(when he was out injured)
.

Today MI has those players bhai.

Remember how MI was when Rohit became captain?

Bhajji had quit captaincy and they had zero IPL wins.

No bumrah, boult, Pattinson, pandya bros back then.

Yes their management has been excellent but Rohit has contributed to the team's fortunes a lot too.

 

[Hasan123]

Nobody is blaming KOhli as the SOLE reason for loss bhai.

There are many reasons.

Just that with Kohli, we almost never had a chance.

We needed the perfect game with our top 3 firing to win and in a WC, that won't happen.

I used to give this example a lot and let me repeat it again:

Indian batting lineup for 2011 WC was the GREATEST we have ever assembled. Its one of the greatest ODI lineups in history too.

Sehwag
Sachin
Gambo
Kohli
Yuvi
Dhoni
Raina

This was our top 7.

Yet, it took the last bit of MENTAL ENERGY of every single one of these 7 players for us to win the WC.

Even if a SINGLE batsman hadn't done his part, we wouldn't have won the 2011 WC.

QF - Sehwag, Sachin, Yuvi, Raina (mainly Yuvi)
SF - Tendu, Raina (with tail)
Finals - Openers gone. Gambo and Kohli 100 run partnership was WORTH its weight in gold. Then Dhoni clicked.

Remove a single bat and we would have lost the WC.

Now compare that to 2019 WC.

Get the top 3 out (no Dhawan too due to injury I guess)...and you were done.

We never stood a chance bro.

You could see it from the moon lol.

-----

As for now, Rohit should become the captain. He deserves it.

If he loses his touch before WC, we will make whoever is worthy then as the captain. KL or Iyer or whoever it may be.

That's how professional organizations are run and that's how it should be.

What do you think if Iyer and Rahul as captains in this year IPL?

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

What do you think if Iyer and Rahul as captains in this year IPL?

Kl rahul was below average to average. Got better with time.

He isn't a natural at this.

Needs a strong coach to guide him I feel.

Iyer was much better. Understood the pulse of the game.

Would have brainfades sometimes but was good.

But dunno how much Ponting controls all his decisions.

As of now, I am not too sure of either one of them.

 

[Hasan123]

Kl rahul was below average to average. Got better with time.

He isn't a natural at this.

Needs a strong coach to guide him I feel.

Iyer was much better. Understood the pulse of the game.

Would have brainfades sometimes but was good.

But dunno how much Ponting controls all his decisions.

As of now, I am not too sure of either one of them.

I think Ponting controls a lot of DC decision making. They have 5 specialist bowlers and rely on specialist batters to do the job. That's how Australia operate . But he did do ok tactically but I felt as though he was conservative when using Rabada and Norje.

I don't think KL is a captain. Took too long to realise Gayle needed to be in the team and stuck with Maxi for too long. Won't even get into some of the bowling changes he made . Don't think Pubjab will change him for next season anyway. It was his 1st try. Let's see how he does next year.

 

[Ab Fan]

Say whatever but Kohli has indeed made some hillarious decisions while captaining India and RCB both.

I mean in a WC semi final, who on earth would send a Pandya ahead of MSD to construct an inning at 25-4 when clearly Pandya's job in the team is to score quickfire runs in the end and it is MS job and his experience to be required in that situation for a 240 run chase.

 

[DRsohail]

Could have won two ICC trophies for India.

 

[BalluBalleBaaz]

I don't think Sir Virat Kohli will play under any other captain now. We have to wait for Kohli the batsman to flop to remove him from captaincy. Nobody takes his fake aggression seriously anyway.

This. Kaptaan will most likely call it a day in T20s regardless winning losing WC 2021. Giving Sharmaji around 3 years of free hand.

 

[Mamoon]

Say whatever but Kohli has indeed made some hillarious decisions while captaining India and RCB both.

I mean in a WC semi final, who on earth would send a Pandya ahead of MSD to construct an inning at 25-4 when clearly Pandya's job in the team is to score quickfire runs in the end and it is MS job and his experience to be required in that situation for a 240 run chase.

Because people always judge such decisions with the benefit of hindsight. The outcome, good or bad, is used to judge the merit of the decision.

If Dhoni would have failed in the 2011 World Cup final and triggered a collapse with India reduced to 114/4, the same set of fans who now praise his decision would have criticized him for being selfish and trying to steal the spotlight even though he was in poor form throughout the World Cup.

Kohli’s decision to send in Pandya at that stage was a bold move but it backfired. It was a smallish total and a counter-attacking partnership between Pandya and Pant could have turned the match on its head, and Jadeja’s innings showed that all India needed was one more batsman to take the game to the New Zealand bowlers.

Had Pandya played the type of innings that Jadeja did and India would have won, Kohli would have been lauded as a tactical genius whose aggressive captaincy won the match for India. Now it is viewed as a dumb decision because it didn’t work.

People criticize and praise captaincy very easily without trying to understand the logic and the merit of the decisions in the heat of the moment.

Kohli has a tremendous cricketing brain. The way he paces his innings and chases big totals in Limited Overs cricket reflects his match-awareness and his ability to read the game.

As captain, whatever decisions you make, you also need your players to execute those decisions. This is one aspect where Kohli’s Limited Overs captaincy can be criticized because so far, he has not been able to extract the best out of his players the way Dhoni did and Rohit does in IPL.

However in general, Indian fans are acting like spoilt brats and the amount of criticism that they are directing towards Kohli is ridiculous.

 

[Ab Fan]

Because people always judge such decisions with the benefit of hindsight. The outcome, good or bad, is used to judge the merit of the decision.

If Dhoni would have failed in the 2011 World Cup final and triggered a collapse with India reduced to 114/4, the same set of fans who now praise his decision would have criticized him for being selfish and trying to steal the spotlight even though he was in poor form throughout the World Cup.

<B>Kohli’s decision to send in Pandya at that stage was a bold move but it backfired. It was a smallish total and a counter-attacking partnership between Pandya and Pant could have turned the match on its head</B>, and Jadeja’s innings showed that all India needed was one more batsman to take the game to the New Zealand bowlers.

Had Pandya played the type of innings that Jadeja did and India would have won, Kohli would have been lauded as a tactical genius whose aggressive captaincy won the match for India. Now it is viewed as a dumb decision because it didn’t work.

People criticize and praise captaincy very easily without trying to understand the logic and the merit of the decisions in the heat of the moment.

Kohli has a tremendous cricketing brain. The way he paces his innings and chases big totals in Limited Overs cricket reflects his match-awareness and his ability to read the game.

As captain, whatever decisions you make, you also need your players to execute those decisions. This is one aspect where Kohli’s Limited Overs captaincy can be criticized because so far, he has not been able to extract the best out of his players the way Dhoni did and Rohit does in IPL.

However in general, Indian fans are acting like spoilt brats and the amount of criticism that they are directing towards Kohli is ridiculous.

Oh dear!

And what is the probability that Pandya would have played a brave knock coming to bat at 25-4 in a WC semi final?? It was one of the most bizzare moves because you do not experiment in a WC semifinal.

Nobody is looking at that decision in hindsight. You can ask any Indian fan or expert, they would say they were shocked watching Pandya came to bat and not Dhoni after they lost four wickets. The signs were quite apparent right there. A basic common sense says that if my team is reeling at 25-4 in a chase of 240, I would send a Misbah next rather than Afridi to not make it 25-5. But they did and Pandya- Pant had to play an inning which was not natural to their game, they weathered the storm but due to lack of experience threw their wickets after that and we were left with a reqd rate which was even too much for a brave performance displayed by Jadeja on that day.

In a WC semi final, you give your roles to the guys who can do them best. It was MS Dhoni's job to weather the storm coming to bat at 25-4 because at that age, this was the only thing he was good at and bring in his experience and calmness that would have helped the likes of Pant and Pandya bat freely. But what Kohli and Indian TM did was he hid him down the order and asked Pant and Pandya to curb their instinct and weather the storm.

It was a hillarious decision and we deserved to lose for that.

 

[Ab Fan]

Also, Kohli doesn't have a tremendous cricketing brain. He has a tremendous batting brain but not cricketing. Dhoni has that cricketing brain but he played selfishly for 3-4 years beyond expiry date.

 

[King_Kohli]

Lol
We played only two ICC trophies under Kohli where we lost one in SF and other in Final.
Some Posters here projecting like he failed in some 10 ICC tourneys.

Yes Rohit Sharma could have... Would have.. win in you dreams.

Book Marked..........
He is already best test captain for India, just matter of one ICC tourney for LOI format.

Dont worry, we are here and this thread will be there and I will bump this thread.
Until then enjoy your conspiracy theories and fantasies..... could have... Would have.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

)

Bookmarked for what?

Hoping for India to win a trophy (which we can considering we have a very powerful unit) and gloat over that by giving credit to Kohli captaincy while ignoring the gazzilion instances Kohli has been found wanting as a captain?

India has only lost 2 ICC trophies under him cos that's how many trophies we have played.

As for finals and SF.....man, you guys need to look beyond stat sheet.

India's path to SF in 2015 was pretty much guaranteed with QF being Bangladesh (no disrespect to them but they weren't a match).

For 2019, again we had to do well in league stage and then the first instance of knockout, we were blown apart.

Sure, on paper Kohli is the greatest ever LOI captain.

I mean he beat SA in SA 5-1 while our legend team used to get owned there.

Dig a bit and all the realities will pop out.

I mean if he was such a great LOI captain, why is he found wanting against RCB?

Ask this question and watch people slink away silently.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I mean if he was such a great LOI captain, why is he found wanting against RCB?

*as RCB captain

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

)

Bookmarked for what?

Hoping for India to win a trophy (which we can considering we have a very powerful unit) and gloat over that by giving credit to Kohli captaincy while ignoring the gazzilion instances Kohli has been found wanting as a captain?

India has only lost 2 ICC trophies under him cos that's how many trophies we have played.

As for finals and SF.....man, you guys need to look beyond stat sheet.

India's path to SF in 2015 was pretty much guaranteed with QF being Bangladesh (no disrespect to them but they weren't a match).

For 2019, again we had to do well in league stage and then the first instance of knockout, we were blown apart.

Sure, on paper Kohli is the greatest ever LOI captain.

I mean he beat SA in SA 5-1 while our legend team used to get owned there.

Dig a bit and all the realities will pop out.

I mean if he was such a great LOI captain, why is he found wanting against RCB?

Ask this question and watch people slink away silently.

Ok 2015 WC was under Dhoni...sorry got mixed up.

I mean 2017 CT...where we again played Bangladesh.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Say whatever but Kohli has indeed made some hillarious decisions while captaining India and RCB both.

I mean in a WC semi final, who on earth would send a Pandya ahead of MSD to construct an inning at 25-4 when clearly Pandya's job in the team is to score quickfire runs in the end and it is MS job and his experience to be required in that situation for a 240 run chase.

One of the many many many decisions.

He made many crazy decisions even in tests (a format where he is actually rated as a captain).

Best was bowling Pawan Negi against Hardik Pandya upon advice of Nehraji. )

These days, IPL commies are almost openly talking about it (while being as diplomatic as possible). lmao.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I think Ponting controls a lot of DC decision making. They have 5 specialist bowlers and rely on specialist batters to do the job. That's how Australia operate . But he did do ok tactically but I felt as though he was conservative when using Rabada and Norje.

I don't think KL is a captain. Took too long to realise Gayle needed to be in the team and stuck with Maxi for too long. Won't even get into some of the bowling changes he made . Don't think Pubjab will change him for next season anyway. It was his 1st try. Let's see how he does next year.

Strategy was Rabada and Nortje to go all out in the death. The 3rd pacer was a constant issue for Delhi. The batting of Delhi has been shockingly poor this time due to Prithvi and Pant going out of form and Iyer having an average IPL.

I don't rate KL as captain but it's safe to assume that Kumble was calling the shots. They got Maxwell for a huge amount and kept playing him due to sunk cost fallacy. They realized they needed Gayle by the 4th or 5th game odd....but then Gayle got sick and could only join by the 7th or 8th game I think.

 

[Hasan123]

Strategy was Rabada and Nortje to go all out in the death. The 3rd pacer was a constant issue for Delhi. The batting of Delhi has been shockingly poor this time due to Prithvi and Pant going out of form and Iyer having an average IPL.

I don't rate KL as captain but it's safe to assume that Kumble was calling the shots. They got Maxwell for a huge amount and kept playing him due to sunk cost fallacy. They realized they needed Gayle by the 4th or 5th game odd....but then Gayle got sick and could only join by the 7th or 8th game I think.

DC should have gave Kemo Paul a chance. He could have sold the 3rd pacer issue. Didn't see anything special in Sams.

KL and Gayle batting is what got Punjab back into the tournament. Hope they sign a top overseas bowler next year. There batting is really strong.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

DC should have gave Kemo Paul a chance. He could have sold the 3rd pacer issue. Didn't see anything special in Sams.

KL and Gayle batting is what got Punjab back into the tournament. Hope they sign a top overseas bowler next year. There batting is really strong.

They just didn't have the slot.

1. Rabada and Nortje were too good and removing either one of them would have weakened their strong suit.
2. Stoinis was the AR who gave balance and frankly the main reason why they were in finals.
3. Then it was between Hetmyer/Alex Carrey/Keemo Paul. If DC batting was in form, they might have gone for Keemo. But their batting was in doldrums.

So they were kinda stuck.

 

[Mamoon]

Trophies are overrated.

Kohli’s legacy as a cricketer cannot be defined by some materialistic cup that someone decided to be the end goal.

Even a nobody like Sarfraz has a trophy.

Rohit has captained his team to 5 IPL trophies but he is still not a bigger cricketer than Kohli.

 

[Mamoon]

Kohli is by far the biggest active cricket icon in the world. No one comes close.

When he is on the field, he is the boss. His stardom ensures that the spotlight is always on him.

It is not possible for him to play in a team and not captain it because it will be unfair to both him and the other captain, who will drown in his shadow.

As long as he is the face of cricket, discontent Indian fans must accept his leadership because he will continue to captain any side he plays for.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Oh dear!



It was a hillarious decision and we deserved to lose for that.

Before the semifinal many posters and fans were saying that MS dhoni is the real captain of indian Team.Do you really think that it was kohli's decision to send hardik and secondly Ms dhoni was the most respected figure in that dressing room do you think he didnt even have a say in where he wants to bat .
I am sure that a tactical genius like dhoni would have known that sending hardik wasnt the right choice,but still he didn’t say anything?

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Lol
We played only two ICC trophies under Kohli where we lost one in SF and other in Final.
Some Posters here projecting like he failed in some 10 ICC tourneys.

Yes Rohit Sharma could have... Would have.. win in you dreams.

Book Marked..........
He is already best test captain for India, just matter of one ICC tourney for LOI format.

Dont worry, we are here and this thread will be there and I will bump this thread.
Until then enjoy your conspiracy theories and fantasies..... could have... Would have.

I think Kohli should be removed from captaincy,not because rohit is a great captain but because he will be able to focus on his batting more and Rohit also deserves a chance for the performances he has put in.
I just think kohli is not as bad as people think he is ,he is the captain under whom we developed a fast bowling culture.

 

[Ab Fan]

Trophies are overrated.

Kohli’s legacy as a cricketer cannot be defined by some materialistic cup that someone decided to be the end goal.

Even a nobody like Sarfraz has a trophy.

Rohit has captained his team to 5 IPL trophies but he is still not a bigger cricketer than Kohli.

Kohli is undoubtedly the greatest cricketer of this era but this debate is about captaincy. I do agree with your point here. You don't necessarily have to win any ICC tournament to be considered a legendary cricketer. Trophies are overrated.

But to be considered a great captain and particularly if you have a great team and a rich and powerful board with all the resources available, you must be winning more tournaments than you won with your previous era legends.

Ponting has won so many World tournaments but yet he is considered by many, an inferior captain to Steve Waugh and Allan Border. Kohli hasn't even won anything as of now to be even in discussion to Ganguly and Dhoni( LOs).

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

)


I mean he beat SA in SA 5-1 while our legend team used to get owned there.

Dig a bit and all the realities will pop out.

I mean if he was such a great LOI captain, why is he found wanting against RCB?

Ask this question and watch people slink away silently.

I am not saying he is a great captain or even good but the fact is that some fans are suggesting that Kohli is the sole reason behind our team not winning ICC trophies which i think is absurd.

 

[Mamoon]

When Dhoni was part of the team and Kohli was captain, the former would get credit for India winning matches.

People would say that Kohli uses Dhoni’s tactics, when things get hot Kohli runs to the boundary and Dhoni makes the fielding changes etc.

However, When India loses, then Dhoni isn’t doing captaincy. Then it all Kohli’s fault.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

DC should have gave Kemo Paul a chance. He could have sold the 3rd pacer issue. Didn't see anything special in Sams.

KL and Gayle batting is what got Punjab back into the tournament. Hope they sign a top overseas bowler next year. There batting is really strong.

Th only problem DC had was that Pant was not at his best throughout the tournament and when he clicked they were already deep down in the dumps.
If you take a look at his stats you will realise he is the most valuable player in IPL.An average of 36 with str rate of 152 and on top of that he is a wktkeeper.

 

[Mean&Green]

Kohli is by far the biggest active cricket icon in the world. No one comes close.

When he is on the field, he is the boss. His stardom ensures that the spotlight is always on him.

It is not possible for him to play in a team and not captain it because it will be unfair to both him and the other captain, who will drown in his shadow.

As long as he is the face of cricket, discontent Indian fans must accept his leadership because he will continue to captain any side he plays for.

Oh lord the sucking up like god damn how could someone be so blind mamoon prolly wishes kohli was his father so he could drown in his shadow too ***** “ thank you bcci for this experience “. Kohli not winning one IPL proves how trash of a captain he is I won’t even mention international cricket cause that standard of captaincy is above his rank.

 

[Ab Fan]

Before the semifinal many posters and fans were saying that MS dhoni is the real captain of indian Team.Do you really think that it was kohli's decision to send hardik and secondly Ms dhoni was the most respected figure in that dressing room do you think he didnt even have a say in where he wants to bat .
I am sure that a tactical genius like dhoni would have known that sending hardik wasnt the right choice,but still he didn’t say anything?

It can be and Dhoni also deserves criticism for that. The fact that people say Kohli is the boss in everything he does then he deserves the blame for that.

But all this argument is not on the basis of only that decision. He doesn't have a single win for RCB in 8 years and during this period, he has made a lot of mistakes and generally it's the business end where his team starts loosing games which tells he is not a great captain. A great all-format cricketer but not a great captain.

On other hand, the likes of CSK and MI get better with the tournament progresses and hit their peak as soon as we reach the business end. Even SRH also.

 

[Ab Fan]

It can be and Dhoni also deserves criticism for that. The fact that people say Kohli is the boss in everything he does then he deserves the blame for that.

But all this argument is not on the basis of only that decision. He doesn't have a single <B>trophy</B> win for RCB in 8 years and during this period, he has made a lot of mistakes and generally it's the business end where his team starts loosing games which tells he is not a great captain. A great all-format cricketer but not a great captain.

On other hand, the likes of CSK and MI get better with the tournament progresses and hit their peak as soon as we reach the business end. Even SRH also.

*Fixed*

 

[sharmaji]

Yes. Surya Kumar Yadav. I think he is quite good and deserves to be in the national team. How do you rate him?

Sky?

 

[Mean&Green]

Yes. Surya Kumar Yadav. I think he is quite good and deserves to be in the national team. How do you rate him?

His first class and list a stats show why he’s not in the Indian side

 

[pillionrider]

Before the semifinal many posters and fans were saying that MS dhoni is the real captain of indian Team.Do you really think that it was kohli's decision to send hardik and secondly Ms dhoni was the most respected figure in that dressing room do you think he didnt even have a say in where he wants to bat .
I am sure that a tactical genius like dhoni would have known that sending hardik wasnt the right choice,but still he didn’t say anything?

Kohli’s decision to send in Pandya at that stage was a bold move but it backfired. It was a smallish total and a counter-attacking partnership between Pandya and Pant could have turned the match on its head, and Jadeja’s innings showed that all India needed was one more batsman to take the game to the New Zealand bowlers.

Had Pandya played the type of innings that Jadeja did and India would have won, Kohli would have been lauded as a tactical genius whose aggressive captaincy won the match for India. Now it is viewed as a dumb decision because it didn’t work.

The problem was it wasn't a one-off choice. Pant, DK and Pandya were all sent ahead of Dhoni. DK was plucked out of thin air for the game and was suddenly told he was going ahead of Dhoni when Rahul got out. Any one of them being sent to smash a few while Dhoni held up the other end, could have made some sense. What Kohli instead did was destroy any possibility of a late flourish. Jadeja surprised everyone with a stunning innings and if he hadn't, it would have been a humiliating petering out of a chase that we would have witnessed.

As I mentioned earlier,

In the semi vs NZ, there's no way he'd have let the whims and fancies of Dhoni decide the batting order.

I don't think Rohit would have padded Dhoni up this much. It was clearly done to give Dhoni the best chance of a heroic end to his career. Kohli had been fanboying MS too much for a while, but you could see him losing his mind towards the end when MS was astutely defending balls while Jadeja was smashing it around. Kohli even sent a message in, while looking disgusted at one point.

Kohli has a tremendous cricketing brain. The way he paces his innings and chases big totals in Limited Overs cricket reflects his match-awareness and his ability to read the game.

As captain, whatever decisions you make, you also need your players to execute those decisions. This is one aspect where Kohli’s Limited Overs captaincy can be criticized because so far, he has not been able to extract the best out of his players the way Dhoni did and Rohit does in IPL.

However in general, Indian fans are acting like spoilt brats and the amount of criticism that they are directing towards Kohli is ridiculous.

No doubt about his brain as his ATG batting has proven. But Sachin was a pure genius with an even bigger understanding of the game and yet - he couldn't consistently work out a way to chase a total when he had poor batsmen around him. His strategy was, I'll have to do it myself, which rarely worked. If you look at great chasers like MS and Kohli afterwards, they made great use of their partners, whether it was in quick running or rapidfire innings at the other end. And as far as captaincy is concerned, Sachin himself realized it wasn't working for him. Sachin was in fact offered a third stint but he refused and instead suggested Dhoni be made captain. Ahead of even Sehwag. That's when they decided to try MS out for the 2007 T20 WC. Javagal Srinath once said about Sachin's captaincy that the reason he didn't get great results was - he assumed everyone could do the things he could do and would get frustrated.

Kohli is by far the biggest active cricket icon in the world. No one comes close.

When he is on the field, he is the boss. His stardom ensures that the spotlight is always on him.

It is not possible for him to play in a team and not captain it because it will be unfair to both him and the other captain, who will drown in his shadow.

In Rohit's case, I don't think this is entirely true. I'm sure as an extremely competitive and driven man, Virat believes he is the best captain. But if he were given the nudge, I don't think he'd find it that hard to play under Rohit.

Hearing him talk about Rohit is a bit like hearing Sachin talk about VVS. Both Sachin and Virat know they are the best of their time and yet they admire a few players for a couple of stunning traits or shots they know they couldn't replicate.

 

[pillionrider]

btw, whatever claims I've made about the WC semi vs NZ doesn't mean I believe India would have won the Final vs England and thereby, an ICC tournament.

 

[sweep_shot]

I think Rohit is a much better captain than Kohli. He also seems more sensible.

Kohli is great in batting but his personality is not suitable for captaincy.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

I think Rohit is a much better captain than Kohli. He also seems more sensible.

Kohli is great in batting but his personality is not suitable for captaincy.

You are right bro. Even [MENTION=145503]Mueez[/MENTION] bhai is a better captain in LOI's than Kohli.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I am not saying he is a great captain or even good but the fact is that some fans are suggesting that Kohli is the sole reason behind our team not winning ICC trophies which i think is absurd.

Never said that.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Trophies are overrated.

Kohli’s legacy as a cricketer cannot be defined by some materialistic cup that someone decided to be the end goal.

Even a nobody like Sarfraz has a trophy.

Rohit has captained his team to 5 IPL trophies but he is still not a bigger cricketer than Kohli.

Trophies are everything.

Or else concede that SA is a GREAT ODI team.

Of course, playing horribly in JAMODIS and then winning a random trophy doesn't create legacy but trophies ain't over-rated.

In today's LOI climate, where teams barely even play full strength, trophies are everything.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Trophies are overrated.

Kohli’s legacy as a cricketer cannot be defined by some materialistic cup that someone decided to be the end goal.

Even a nobody like Sarfraz has a trophy.

Rohit has captained his team to 5 IPL trophies but he is still not a bigger cricketer than Kohli.

Tendulkar was a flop captain yet he is bigger than Dhoni.

Who is talking about being a bigger cricketer?

Bhai...how many more deflections are you gonna use?

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

When Dhoni was part of the team and Kohli was captain, the former would get credit for India winning matches.

People would say that Kohli uses Dhoni’s tactics, when things get hot Kohli runs to the boundary and Dhoni makes the fielding changes etc.

However, When India loses, then Dhoni isn’t doing captaincy. Then it all Kohli’s fault.

Dhoni was abused and humiliated for all his antics in the last few years.

In fact, Kohli should have eased out Dhoni yet kept him cos he could hide behind him and not get exposed so fast.

Plausible deniability.

Unfortunately, old Dhoni was making so many wrong decisions himself to protect himself (highly ironic as young Dhoni was he opposite of that)....so Kohli's plan backfired.

What other excuses you have?

Keep them coming.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

In Rohit's case, I don't think this is entirely true. I'm sure as an extremely competitive and driven man, Virat believes he is the best captain. But if he were given the nudge, I don't think he'd find it that hard to play under Rohit.

Hearing him talk about Rohit is a bit like hearing Sachin talk about VVS. Both Sachin and Virat know they are the best of their time and yet they admire a few players for a couple of stunning traits or shots they know they couldn't replicate.

Kohli can't play under Rohit is all self-constructed rhetorics and gimmicks that posters themselves conceived and believe.

Of course he can play.

On one hand, [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] wants PCB to be professional like BCCI...and on the other, he blatantly disregards merit in the face of overwhelming evidence.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I think Kohli should be removed from captaincy,not because rohit is a great captain but because he will be able to focus on his batting more and Rohit also deserves a chance for the performances he has put in.
I just think kohli is not as bad as people think he is ,he is the captain under whom we developed a fast bowling culture.

Kohli the test captain ain't the same as Kohli the LOI captain.

Kohli defo helped with the right mindset for fast bowling but the groundwork was done already.

Now we have lots of pacers who are both quick and accurate and can swing/seam the ball.

No other Indian captain had access to such pacers.

Not taking anything away from Kohli (he deserves credit), but here's what he got access to which NO captain got:

Bumrah (ATG material)
Improved Shami
Improved Ishant (thanks to Jason Gillespie)
Upcoming pacers (Saini, Siraj, etc)
Peak Ashwin
Peak Jaddu

Our entire bowling culture transformed over the last decade.

Still the mindset of Kohli has been amazing in tests even tho tactically he has taken lots and lots of idiotic decisions even in tests.

Since positive outweigh negatives, people rate Kohli the captain in tests.

---

Opposite goes for Dhoni.

He was super lucky when he became test captain with a laddoo team.

Then got exposed when he had to build a team.

 

[MP2011]

Kohli can't play under Rohit is all self-constructed rhetorics and gimmicks that posters themselves conceived and believe.

Of course he can play.

This.

Sooner Kohli is removed from our LoI captaincy better will it be for our trophy prospects.

 

[MP2011]

The CT final vs Pakistan might have been different for a start. The way the team slowly fell apart in the field after the no-ball, with no answers, just going through the motions, and waiting for the chase basically.

In the IPL, over the last 5-6 years, I've watched mostly only the big games involving MI, and Rohit as a captain in the knockouts is way way ahead of Kohli in terms of how he handles a bowler who's feeling the heat. His field settings and plans work with the kind of accuracy that Dhoni's used to. It looks like luck from the outside, but there's something else going on there that's purely based on cricketing fact and instincts.

The CT Final is the first time I started doubting Kohli the captain. He looked so incredibly tense before the game. India were expected to win the game. There was nothing to show for, in Pakistan's previous performances. And yet I remember messaging friends saying I was getting a bad feeling looking at Kohli. Those are the vibes a team like Pakistan feeds on and lifts them to levels even they don't know they're capable of. Would Rohit have been chilled out. Maybe not. But he would have been more involved when India were bowling and not just waiting for - give us the score and we'll try to chase it thing that Kohli had to offer.

This was the biggest of all the ICC games Kohli has captained to failure. The rest are even more clearly in favor of Rohit winning them. In the semi vs NZ, there's no way he'd have let the whims and fancies of Dhoni decide the batting order. Who sends potential finishers like Hardik, Pant, DK ahead of a struggling Dhoni. The game was perfectly set up for Dhoni to come in and take his time fidgeting around.

Well said.

As has been said and observed so many times, if someone is your best cricketer, it doesn't necessarily mean that he'll be the best man for being your captain as well.

Kohli has proved it time and time again.

 

[MP2011]

And lol who was the genius who wrote trophies are overrated?

If you don't play for winning a trophy why else do you play?

 

[Aman]

A lot better for sure, Kohli just isn't a good leader or captain.

 

[Aman]

Trophies are overrated.

Kohli’s legacy as a cricketer cannot be defined by some materialistic cup that someone decided to be the end goal.

Even a nobody like Sarfraz has a trophy.

Rohit has captained his team to 5 IPL trophies but he is still not a bigger cricketer than Kohli.

If he led India to a WC he would be a bigger legend than Kohli that's for sure.

 

[Mueez]

You are right bro. Even [MENTION=145503]Mueez[/MENTION] bhai is a better captain in LOI's than Kohli.

Grateful for your words!

On topic: as much as I like Kohli, his captaincy is quite questionable. In my opinion, Rohit Sharma is a better candidate and more suited to captaincy. His IPL record speaks for itself

I think India have missed the trick by not appointing Rohit as their LOIs captain.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

India's love in with Kohli have cost them a lot not only in LOIs but also in tests. Major trophies, series wins, domination of world cricket - particularly with many other teams in such internal disarray to not even put up a whimper of a fight.

His decision making and man management skills are poor, particularly under pressure.

He has a very good record as captain but India was capable of winning much much more, particularly with him in the team and most other teams in total chaos.

The writing is clear on the wall. Kohli is not captaincy material, impacts the team in big moments and worst of all, his own batting suffers due to the pressure.

Discard him as captain.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

If he led India to a WC he would be a bigger legend than Kohli that's for sure.

Are you kidding me.
Sachin Tendulkar is ten times the cricketer Dhoni is.
Captaincy and greatness are two different things.
Is ranatunga a bigger cricketer than sanga or jaya?
Same goes for morgan and ben stokes.