Humiliating series loss for Pakistan to an inexperienced reserve side

[SangasCoverDrive]

How can you lose the series to a team where even the captain couldn’t name the playing XI and said at toss that they are just trying to have fun. Really embarrassing series for Pakistan and it’s not even like the players from England were top class. Simpson got the average of 26 in List A with 0 centuries. Carse only played 7 List A games prior to this series.

The truth is that there is no talent left in Pakistan. Same Maqsoods, Raufs, Faheems, Shadabs will be selected over and over again.

 

[Last Monetarist]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">15 of the current squad in isolation. Buttler and Archer injured. What <a href="https://twitter.com/benstokes38?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@benstokes38</a> and the team have achieved is incredible &#55357;&#56908;&#55356;&#57339; Looking forward to watching the next game!</p>— Eoin Morgan (@Eoin16) <a href="https://twitter.com/Eoin16/status/1413933112732667912?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 10, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[PakHammer]

Sad fact Pakistan is heading the West Indies, Sri Lanka & Bangladesh way for ODI cricket. Misbah needs to step aside after this series. Totally embarrassing to lose to a side easily without 17 of their usual side. Only Stokes is a certain pick from this reserve side.

 

[cricket4all]

Disgraceful performance by Pakistan, but it goes deeper than that. I.e. the so called coach and coaching staff and the chief selector. Embarrassing.

 

[Rana]

They selected their best team possible, yet we have been horrendously poor!

It is clear that Misbah and Waqar have no idea about how to manage a side. Give this side to a Professional Australian, English, Kiwi or South African coach and watch how they start to actually play 2/3rds better than what we have seen recently

 

[Shoaibbtt]

They selected their best team possible, yet we have been horrendously poor!

It is clear that Misbah and Waqar have no idea about how to manage a side. Give this side to a Professional Australian, English, Kiwi or South African coach and watch how they start to actually play 2/3rds better than what we have seen recently

Spoken like an amateur. You have nobody but to blame yourself with the rubbish shots played today and that’s nothing to do with the coaches.

For imam it’s been a Shan Masood like series ie the test series in which Shan Masood was laying eggs against NZ, had Imam not played some rubbish shots then it would’ve reduced the pressure on Babar.

Saud was good but no aggressive intent but seeing as this was his first series he’s done ok. Definitely need a change in the batting order and perhaps bring Moqsood up the order.

 

[Mamoon]

They selected their best team possible, yet we have been horrendously poor!

It is clear that Misbah and Waqar have no idea about how to manage a side. Give this side to a Professional Australian, English, Kiwi or South African coach and watch how they start to actually play 2/3rds better than what we have seen recently

Yes, a professional coach like Mickey who lost around 30 of his last 40 ODIs and lost Test series to Sri Lanka and New Zealand in the UAE.

Classic Pakistani fan denial - blame the coach but refuse to accept the fact that the players aren’t good enough.

 

[Maher96]

They selected their best team possible, yet we have been horrendously poor!

It is clear that Misbah and Waqar have no idea about how to manage a side. Give this side to a Professional Australian, English, Kiwi or South African coach and watch how they start to actually play 2/3rds better than what we have seen recently

With corruption around do you really see Misbah having the guts to step aside willingly?

He will never go. A curse

 

[Mamoon]

What will happen when Misbah goes?

 

[SangasCoverDrive]

What will happen when Misbah goes?

At least we will be able to defeat England D.

 

[Rana]

Spoken like an amateur. You have nobody but to blame yourself with the rubbish shots played today and that’s nothing to do with the coaches.

For imam it’s been a Shan Masood like series ie the test series in which Shan Masood was laying eggs against NZ, had Imam not played some rubbish shots then it would’ve reduced the pressure on Babar.

Saud was good but no aggressive intent but seeing as this was his first series he’s done ok. Definitely need a change in the batting order and perhaps bring Moqsood up the order.

Are you telling me that a soft, timid approach to batting is something that a coach cannot fix?

 

[Rana]

Yes, a professional coach like Mickey who lost around 30 of his last 40 ODIs and lost Test series to Sri Lanka and New Zealand in the UAE.

Classic Pakistani fan denial - blame the coach but refuse to accept the fact that the players aren’t good enough.

Yes a professional coach is still better than a former team mate as head coach.

SENA bring professionalism to the game.

 

[Mamoon]

At least we will be able to defeat England D.

If that is your idea of success than yeah sure.

 

[TheSultan]

Ok well let’s just accept we are absolute tosh (which we are), and not look for solutions!

What exactly do you want then? Say we are rubbish. Ok done. We admit india are better? Ok done. Now what? We keep Waqar and Misbah on indefinitely? We don’t change the team. We don’t change their thinking? We don’t change tactics? We just lie there and die?

You’ve got to be absolutely ignorant to think that even if you cannot coach talent, you cannot coach simple things like rotating strike, running between wickets, shot selection, bowl the right deliver at the right time, go for the kill when you have the opposition 160-7 etc etc.

 

[Rana]

Ok well let’s just accept we are absolute tosh (which we are), and not look for solutions!

What exactly do you want then? Say we are rubbish. Ok done. We admit india are better? Ok done. Now what? We keep Waqar and Misbah on indefinitely? We don’t change the team. We don’t change their thinking? We don’t change tactics? We just lie there and die?

You’ve got to be absolutely ignorant to think that even if you cannot coach talent, you cannot coach simple things like rotating strike, running between wickets, shot selection, bowl the right deliver at the right time, go for the kill when you have the opposition 160-7 etc etc.

Misbah, Waqar and their support staff are not coaching or teaching these boys anything.

They are simply just speculating how each of those players will play in certain positions or in certain situations. They are basically doing what anyone on this forum can do, but we cannot do it as national appointed coaches because we have never represented Pakistan

 

[Mamoon]

Ok well let’s just accept we are absolute tosh (which we are), and not look for solutions!

What exactly do you want then? Say we are rubbish. Ok done. We admit india are better? Ok done. Now what? We keep Waqar and Misbah on indefinitely? We don’t change the team. We don’t change their thinking? We don’t change tactics? We just lie there and die?

You’ve got to be absolutely ignorant to think that even if you cannot coach talent, you cannot coach simple things like rotating strike, running between wickets, shot selection, bowl the right deliver at the right time, go for the kill when you have the opposition 160-7 etc etc.

Here’s the answer to your post.

You hire the best coach in the world (whoever that is) and make Misbah the coach of England.

England would still demolish Pakistan in ODIs and T20Is in all conditions because Pakistan has no answer to the quality of England’s nucleus - Roy, Bairstow, Morgan, Root, Buttler, Stokes, Archer etc.

Pakistan had a so-called high profile and credible coach in Mickey and he lost 30+ of his last 40 ODIs.

The reality is that our players lack talent and they are thicker than planks. You cannot spoon-feed players at this level and teach them the basics.

If you lack talent, intelligence and game-awareness, no coach can get consistent results out of you, and 99% of our players lack these qualities in abundance, which means that our fans need to stop scapegoating Misbah because of their refusal to accept that the players are diabolical.

Go ahead, sack Misbah and hire whoever the latest savior is. Two years back, the savior was the late Dean Jones who unfortunately passed away. These days, Andy Flower is the messiah who will somehow turn these talentless losers into world beaters by teaching them the basics.

 

[TheSultan]

Here’s the answer to your post.

You hire the best coach in the world (whoever that is) and make Misbah the coach of England.

England would still demolish Pakistan in ODIs and T20Is in all conditions because Pakistan has no answer to the quality of England’s nucleus - Roy, Bairstow, Morgan, Root, Buttler, Stokes, Archer etc.

Pakistan had a so-called high profile and credible coach in Mickey and he lost 30+ of his last 40 ODIs.

The reality is that our players lack talent and they are thicker than planks. You cannot spoon-feed players at this level and teach them the basics.

If you lack talent, intelligence and game-awareness, no coach can get consistent results out of you, and 99% of our players lack these qualities in abundance, which means that our fans need to stop scapegoating Misbah because of their refusal to accept that the players are diabolical.

Go ahead, sack Misbah and hire whoever the latest savior is. Two years back, the savior was the late Dean Jones who unfortunately passed away. These days, Andy Flower is the messiah who will somehow turn these talentless losers into world beaters by teaching them the basics.

Again you are repeating the same stuff packaged with more words. Some efficiency wouldn’t go amiss.

1. I accept the players are diabolical and thick as 2 planks.
2. I accept it is not all down to misbah. However, a change would do not harm
3. Nobody is expecting Andy flower or A.N other to make us world beaters.


Now moving on from this repetitive argument you are making that isn’t earth shattering in the least. What is the next step. Do just accept we are rubbish and give up on pak cricket. It may be an option. But then why are you wasting your time on a Pakistan cricket forum? For someone who hates everything about the pak team or at the very least have no hope for them, you must really have nothing to do in your life than spend hours commenting on…..you guessed it…Pakistan cricket!

People are looking for solutions or next steps because guess what? This is a Pakistan cricket discussion. If you don’t think any improvement is possible, why are you even commenting? Give your fingers a rest and go and watch some videos of the Indian cricket team!

 

[Mamoon]

Again you are repeating the same stuff packaged with more words. Some efficiency wouldn’t go amiss.

1. I accept the players are diabolical and thick as 2 planks.
2. I accept it is not all down to misbah. However, a change would do not harm
3. Nobody is expecting Andy flower or A.N other to make us world beaters.


Now moving on from this repetitive argument you are making that isn’t earth shattering in the least. What is the next step. Do just accept we are rubbish and give up on pak cricket. It may be an option. But then why are you wasting your time on a Pakistan cricket forum? For someone who hates everything about the pak team or at the very least have no hope for them, you must really have nothing to do in your life than spend hours commenting on…..you guessed it…Pakistan cricket!

People are looking for solutions or next steps because guess what? This is a Pakistan cricket discussion. If you don’t think any improvement is possible, why are you even commenting? Give your fingers a rest and go and watch some videos of the Indian cricket team!

The next step is for the fans to lower their expectations. Millions of sports fans around the world support and celebrate mediocre teams. Why cannot Pakistani fans do the same?

Not every team is meant to be an elite team and not every player is meant to be an elite player.

I don’t know if you follow football or any other team sport but assuming that you do, let me give you an example.

You won’t see Watford FC fans demanding their manager to be sacked because they didn’t qualify for the UCL. Why? Because the fans have accepted that barring a miracle, they are not a big enough club to be in the UCL.

I can go on and on….and on with more examples.

Pakistan cricket does not have the capacity and the capability to become an elite team no matter how much bhangra the fans do. It is just not going to happen.

They might have a good period every 4-5 years where they look like a great team for a few matches, but they will be brought back to earth every single time.

Henceforth, instead of blaming the coaches and the selectors, the fans should lower their expectations to meet the standard of the team instead of trying to force the team to match their expectations.

The gap between fans expectations and the actual of ability and capability of the team is huge, and that is the real source of disappointment and frustration.

 

[Shahzad1985]

The next step is for the fans to lower their expectations. Millions of sports fans around the world support and celebrate mediocre teams. Why cannot Pakistani fans do the same?

Not every team is meant to be an elite team and not every player is meant to be an elite player.

I don’t know if you follow football or any other team sport but assuming that you do, let me give you an example.

You won’t see Watford FC fans demanding their manager to be sacked because they didn’t qualify for the UCL. Why? Because the fans have accepted that barring a miracle, they are not a big enough club to be in the UCL.

I can go on and on….and on with more examples.

Pakistan cricket does not have the capacity and the capability to become an elite team no matter how much bhangra the fans do. It is just not going to happen.

They might have a good period every 4-5 years where they look like a great team for a few matches, but they will be brought back to earth every single time.

Henceforth, instead of blaming the coaches and the selectors, the fans should lower their expectations to meet the standard of the team instead of trying to force the team to match their expectations.

The gap between fans expectations and the actual of ability and capability of the team is huge, and that is the real source of disappointment and frustration.

Have to agree with you. A change is required and pretty much immediately.won’t make us world beaters but I can’t see how they can hide behind any excuses after this humiliation, as much as it hurts to say it’s better for us perhaps to lose 3-0 otherwise if we win the dead rubber then all the clinging onto the positives and excuses for the first two losses will start. Let’s face it the top 4 we had playing in the side are going nowhere and rightfully so despite me not being a huge fan of Imam but we know this is the core of the side and if they perform like this and they are unstoppable minus Imam then surely the coaches are not getting the best out of them and time for someone else to have a go.

 

[TheSultan]

The next step is for the fans to lower their expectations. Millions of sports fans around the world support and celebrate mediocre teams. Why cannot Pakistani fans do the same?

Not every team is meant to be an elite team and not every player is meant to be an elite player.

I don’t know if you follow football or any other team sport but assuming that you do, let me give you an example.

You won’t see Watford FC fans demanding their manager to be sacked because they didn’t qualify for the UCL. Why? Because the fans have accepted that barring a miracle, they are not a big enough club to be in the UCL.

I can go on and on….and on with more examples.

Pakistan cricket does not have the capacity and the capability to become an elite team no matter how much bhangra the fans do. It is just not going to happen.

They might have a good period every 4-5 years where they look like a great team for a few matches, but they will be brought back to earth every single time.

Henceforth, instead of blaming the coaches and the selectors, the fans should lower their expectations to meet the standard of the team instead of trying to force the team to match their expectations.

The gap between fans expectations and the actual of ability and capability of the team is huge, and that is the real source of disappointment and frustration.

Errmm I don’t know if you follow football at all seriously but yes, Watford FC fans do ask for their coaches to be sacked for underperforming as well as any other club!

Your crusade here is to get people to lower their expectations? Wow noble cause young man. Keep at it. When you grow up or get that chip of your shoulder, let us know

 

[cricket4all]

Look there is no denying that the team is awful lacking class and temperament as well as elementary school boy stuff. They simply are not good enough. A coach can not wave a magic wand and fix things. However, proper qualified coaches and proper selection can help at least help even 5% to go in the right direction.

What can help lift any cricket team go that bit further is a very good and strong captain who fights and leads from the front. I can’t see that in Babar just yet.

 

[Savak]

Errmm I don’t know if you follow football at all seriously but yes, Watford FC fans do ask for their coaches to be sacked for underperforming as well as any other club!

Your crusade here is to get people to lower their expectations? Wow noble cause young man. Keep at it. When you grow up or get that chip of your shoulder, let us know

The funny thing is the guy himself doesn't practice what he preaches. He actually gets more emotional and upset with every Pakistani defeat himself and how pathetic the team is vs India and how pathetic the Pakistani players are vs Indian players

 

[Farabi]

Overreaction over couple games. In sports, this can happen. If Pakistan was bound to win, then why okay sport?? Just ask England C to ship the trophy.
This is a solid batting line up on paper and it will come good. Needs time in the middle. I would not change anything for next 15-20 games for the batting unit to settle and gel together

 

[Hitman]

Have to admit that I'm surprised with the results so far. I certainly didn't expect this England team to roll over Pakistan in the first 2 matches. But then again it's cricket, unexpected things do happen.

 

[Titan24]

Have to admit that I'm surprised with the results so far. I certainly didn't expect this England team to roll over Pakistan in the first 2 matches. But then again it's cricket, unexpected things do happen.

Pretty much. Thats the beauty of sports and what makes them interesting that alongside some predictable things there are a bunch of unexpected things as well. So sometimes as a fan you are pleasantly surprised with the results and sometimes you are disappointed due to the turn the unexpected events take.

Pak wasnt great and some of the Eng players did extremely well.

That being said, Pak needs to sort the issues out on multiple levels to become more consistent especially against the top 4 teams.

 

[Abdurmirr]

Just goes to show how low we have sunken over the last 2 years. However I feel it's going to get even worse from here.

We are producing only a few somewhat talented players and even then those "talented" players have the game awareness of a 12 year old and a cricketing IQ of less than 50.

Then comes the issue of the bits and pieces pseudo all rounders that contribute nothing and are just there because ???, not even I know.

Our main bowling line up is ok with Shaheen and Hasan who could potentially make an England D or E side, however any pressure, any damage done by these two is negated when Rauf comes on. Absolute joke of a bowler. Zero talent, however what's worse than his lack of ability is his preschooler understanding of the game.

Batting wise we are also pathetic. Our openers will always perform and be brilliant against tier C team like Sri Lanka and Bangladesh however against quality teams we will just see a rinse and repeat with the occasional useless century that will send our fans into overdrive. That being said being said babar is probably the shining light, however it's a very dim light as usually you will see Babar Azam- A: score a brilliant and beautiful century when their is zero presssure only to get out the next ball or B: Choke a somewhat difficult run chase.

Rizwan has also been poor and don't know what's his issue, however it seems obvious that he is completely lost batting at 4 so either move him down the order or drop him completely (to the satisfaction of all his haters) and replace him with the brilliant Sarfraz.

The rest not much to say, just another batch of substandard cricketers who will only get worse and worse as our resources begin to decline.

 

[Mr Crickekter]

What will happen when Misbah goes?

Situation will go from bad to worse....
Reality is we are an associate level team.If even Hazrat Jabriel (A.s) comes to coaching these brainless people nothing is going to happen

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Well this was a shocker of a game. 247 in modern cricket is not much, that too against a county cricket attack.
I had thought Pakistan will chase this. But, these things happen. Move on quickly and look to win T20 series. It is a T20 WC year after all.

 

[Hitman]

Pretty much. Thats the beauty of sports and what makes them interesting that alongside some predictable things there are a bunch of unexpected things as well. So sometimes as a fan you are pleasantly surprised with the results and sometimes you are disappointed due to the turn the unexpected events take.

Pak wasnt great and some of the Eng players did extremely well.

That being said, Pak needs to sort the issues out on multiple levels to become more consistent especially against the top 4 teams.

The best thing for Pakistan to do would be to forget the ODI series (except try to win the last ODI match) and try to win the T20 series. That would salvage some pride for Pakistan.

 

[Golden arm]

They selected their best team possible, yet we have been horrendously poor!

It is clear that Misbah and Waqar have no idea about how to manage a side. Give this side to a Professional Australian, English, Kiwi or South African coach and watch how they start to actually play 2/3rds better than what we have seen recently

Spot on!!! This was not at all a bad side atleast for B England Team

Poor selection and tactical planning made them look extremely below par

 

[Golden arm]

Situation will go from bad to worse....
Reality is we are an associate level team.If even Hazrat Jabriel (A.s) comes to coaching these brainless people nothing is going to happen

Give this team to Andy Flower and his coaching staff these guys can win and compete against top 4
Same guys will loose even against Zimbabwe under coaching of Waqar and Misbah

They are absolutely in wrong roles

Misbah could be a very good director role like Ashley Giles or even selector role

Waqars best role is in academy as premier fast bowling coach

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Well this was a shocker of a game. 247 in modern cricket is not much, that too against a county cricket attack.
I had thought Pakistan will chase this. But, these things happen. Move on quickly and look to win T20 series. It is a T20 WC year after all.

Honestly, the T20 WC means nothing right now, we have so many problems in the team that even winning the T20 WC won’t give me any joy. I want to see Pakistan doing well against the Top 5 in bilateral series’ not just in icc tournaments.

 

[Mr Crickekter]

Give this team to Andy Flower and his coaching staff these guys can win and compete against top 4
Same guys will loose even against Zimbabwe under coaching of Waqar and Misbah

They are absolutely in wrong roles

Misbah could be a very good director role like Ashley Giles or even selector role

Waqars best role is in academy as premier fast bowling coach

I will repeat once again....
"we are an associate level team.If even Hazrat Jabriel (A.s) comes to coaching these brainless people nothing is going to happen"

 

[zain41]

Look there is no denying that the team is awful lacking class and temperament as well as elementary school boy stuff. They simply are not good enough. A coach can not wave a magic wand and fix things. However, proper qualified coaches and proper selection can help at least help even 5% to go in the right direction.

What can help lift any cricket team go that bit further is a very good and strong captain who fights and leads from the front. I can’t see that in Babar just yet.

This. Exactly this. Misbah is not a qualified coach, we can’t do much as of rn in terms of the quality of the players because they haven’t been good enough and it seems that we lack talent in general but jobs in management such as coaching are something that can be controlled so why hire someone incompetent , someone who has no experience at all and someone like waqar who is a tried and tested failure

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

How is Pak losing to this Eng C team?

 

[sweep_shot]

I expected Pakistan to win 2-1.

This is an unexpected result.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Pakistani cricketers simply dont have the talent or the intelligence.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Honestly, the T20 WC means nothing right now, we have so many problems in the team that even winning the T20 WC won’t give me any joy. I want to see Pakistan doing well against the Top 5 in bilateral series’ not just in icc tournaments.

bilaterals are overrated. Pakistan beat England when in mattered the most in 2019 WC despite being pummelled just a months before.
Test Victories and Tournaments. Pakistan is a tournament team in LOIs. They will turn up mostly.
But with Misbah in-charge, that also may be unlikely.

 

[dildilpak]

Pakistani cricketers simply dont have the talent or the intelligence.

More than talent, Intelligence is the key word here. And i have to agree with Mamoon here - no amount of coaching at the national level (even if you get the best coach that money can buy) will be able to drum intelligence, sense & match awareness in this bunch of players as all these stuff have to be drummed into the players from a young age. And i am convinced- this lack of intelligence is all pervasive within the system - you replace this bunch of guys with another bunch - the result will be exactly the same.

The solution is to get players to think on their feet & not blindly follow the coach/captain. And this cant happen overnight- you will need a complete overhaul of the domestic coaching methodology.

 

[Bhaijaan]

This is white ball cricket and England are playing at home. And in any case Pakistan are a below par overall white ball cricket team.


So I am not sure why the overreaction.

You would expect an England B team to be competitive against a Pakistan level team.

 

[street cricketer]

People are ignoring the elephant in the room. In the 90s, cricket was very competitive with Australia being the best but all other teams like South Africa, England, Pakistan, West Indies, India, Sri Lanka and even sides like Zimbabwe and Kenya were very competitive.

Over the years, Windies cricket had a steep decline and was the first of the major teams to suffer a slow death to their cricket. Sri Lanka are in free fall and on the way to being the next Windies. South Africa are in the initial phase of its decline, something Sri Lanka was 8-10 years ago. Zimbabwe is merely in international cricket for the numbers while Kenyan international cricket is dead and buried.

Right now, international cricket is made up of three distinct blocs -

1. The good sides bloc
2. The average sides bloc
3. The minnows bloc

India, England, Australia and New Zealand are the only good sides in international cricket currently and form the big 4 bloc followed by Pakistan, South Africa, Sri Lanka and the West Indies in the second average sides bloc followed by the minnows block (Bang, Zim, Ire, Afg).

India and England have enough depth in their cricket to field two strong international squads, Australia and NZ probably don't have the same depth as India and England do, but their first team is very strong nonetheless with very good back up players. The gulf between the first bloc and the second bloc is bigger than the gulf between the second block (Pak, SA, SL, WI) and the minnows bloc (Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, Ireland, Afghanistan). Pakistan is probably the best side of the second block, slightly better than SA, but both are a bit better than SL and WI. However both Pak and SA are a fair bit behind the big 4 sides and need consistent cricket for a long period to break into the first block and be considered among the top sides.

What happened just displays the disparity between the development of cricket in different countries from the 90s onwards. I hope we can go back to the past when more teams were competitive, but the sad fact is that cricket right now has a dearth of quality sides with greater disparity between the sides and with some sides capable of fielding very good reserve sides but other teams struggling with their first teams. I hope this trend doesn't continue as if this persists for a few more years, international cricket would become a bit like the La Liga with just the big 3 in Barca, Madrid and Atletico and the rest making up the numbers.

 

[Energy]

People are ignoring the elephant in the room. In the 90s, cricket was very competitive with Australia being the best but all other teams like South Africa, England, Pakistan, West Indies, India, Sri Lanka and even sides like Zimbabwe and Kenya were very competitive.

Over the years, Windies cricket had a steep decline and was the first of the major teams to suffer a slow death to their cricket. Sri Lanka are in free fall and on the way to being the next Windies. South Africa are in the initial phase of its decline, something Sri Lanka was 8-10 years ago. Zimbabwe is merely in international cricket for the numbers while Kenyan international cricket is dead and buried.

Right now, international cricket is made up of three distinct blocs -

1. The good sides bloc
2. The average sides bloc
3. The minnows bloc

India, England, Australia and New Zealand are the only good sides in international cricket currently and form the big 4 bloc followed by Pakistan, South Africa, Sri Lanka and the West Indies in the second average sides bloc followed by the minnows block (Bang, Zim, Ire, Afg).

India and England have enough depth in their cricket to field two strong international squads, Australia and NZ probably don't have the same depth as India and England do, but their first team is very strong nonetheless with very good back up players. The gulf between the first bloc and the second bloc is bigger than the gulf between the second block (Pak, SA, SL, WI) and the minnows bloc (Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, Ireland, Afghanistan). Pakistan is probably the best side of the second block, slightly better than SA, but both are a bit better than SL and WI. However both Pak and SA are a fair bit behind the big 4 sides and need consistent cricket for a long period to break into the first block and be considered among the top sides.

What happened just displays the disparity between the development of cricket in different countries from the 90s onwards. I hope we can go back to the past when more teams were competitive, but the sad fact is that cricket right now has a dearth of quality sides with greater disparity between the sides and with some sides capable of fielding very good reserve sides but other teams struggling with their first teams. I hope this trend doesn't continue as if this persists for a few more years, international cricket would become a bit like the La Liga with just the big 3 in Barca, Madrid and Atletico and the rest making up the numbers.

This is true, but it's also down to governance policies applied by the good sides bloc. The understanding of where the game is heading, then investing into the infrastructure and ensuring the big three play maximum cricket in their backyard. As much as we (as Pakistan) or other boards cry about it, you can't deny the fact that if you have a generous home season and play maximum games, you are bound to be amongst the top each time.

Is it wrong though for the big three to have lion's share of the sport? No. We'll all just need to get used to this. Unless you pull off a New Zealand (ultra talented players punching above their weight with limited opportunities), teams like Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, West Indies and South Africa are just there to provide cheap thrill with an odd performance here and there. The main cricketing achievement going forward is for Eng to win in Aus or Ind, and vice versa for the other two.

Specifically for Pakistan - we have always been a lazy nation, and there's hardly anyone who has vision. 100% of the board and the players are short-sighted, and looking to secure their 5/10 lac a month for as long as they can. The dhyaari system has been there forever, and will continue to do so because occasionally Pakistan will play softer tours and will end up winning them, therefore the W/L overall looks OK for a mid-table team. That's enough to keep all the buffoons together in the zoo happy.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

They selected their best team possible, yet we have been horrendously poor!

It is clear that Misbah and Waqar have no idea about how to manage a side. Give this side to a Professional Australian, English, Kiwi or South African coach and watch how they start to actually play 2/3rds better than what we have seen recently

They have proven when they were captains that they cannot manage a side , Waqar was coach no. of times , can’t see any credentials for him to re-appoint him.

They had Zimbabwe series to try youngsters , Misbah played his friends.

Give them 10 years would still not be able to build a team and manage it, actually little short 10 years which they have already had from 2010 to 2021

So please sack them off forever.

 

[street cricketer]

This is true, but it's also down to governance policies applied by the good sides bloc. The understanding of where the game is heading, then investing into the infrastructure and ensuring the big three play maximum cricket in their backyard. As much as we (as Pakistan) or other boards cry about it, you can't deny the fact that if you have a generous home season and play maximum games, you are bound to be amongst the top each time.

Is it wrong though for the big three to have lion's share of the sport? No. We'll all just need to get used to this. Unless you pull off a New Zealand (ultra talented players punching above their weight with limited opportunities), teams like Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, West Indies and South Africa are just there to provide cheap thrill with an odd performance here and there. The main cricketing achievement going forward is for Eng to win in Aus or Ind, and vice versa for the other two.

Specifically for Pakistan - we have always been a lazy nation, and there's hardly anyone who has vision. 100% of the board and the players are short-sighted, and looking to secure their 5/10 lac a month for as long as they can. The dhyaari system has been there forever, and will continue to do so because occasionally Pakistan will play softer tours and will end up winning them, therefore the W/L overall looks OK for a mid-table team. That's enough to keep all the buffoons together in the zoo happy.

Oh I completely agree with your opinion.

Technically there's nothing wrong in countries like India, Australia and England getting their share proportional to the money they bring in, but I think the big 3 should have a longer vision for the game and if they aspire to make cricket a global sport and not just a niche commonwealth sport, they need to subsidise the game in the weaker countries a bit, and that means they sacrifice a section of their pie so that it supports the game in the rest of the world in the associate and affiliate nations.

But with cricket struggling in many full time test nations as it is, forget about cricket expanding in associate and affiliate nations. I guess cricket will remain a game played seriously by countries you can count in your hand and never really will expand into a truly global game.

 

[UzmanBeast]

The hall-mark of any successful team depends on the mentality of its players.

Upon that, we need to play more cricket in general.

 

[Jeetlodil]

The next step is for the fans to lower their expectations. Millions of sports fans around the world support and celebrate mediocre teams. Why cannot Pakistani fans do the same?

Not every team is meant to be an elite team and not every player is meant to be an elite player.

I don’t know if you follow football or any other team sport but assuming that you do, let me give you an example.

You won’t see Watford FC fans demanding their manager to be sacked because they didn’t qualify for the UCL. Why? Because the fans have accepted that barring a miracle, they are not a big enough club to be in the UCL.

I can go on and on….and on with more examples.

Pakistan cricket does not have the capacity and the capability to become an elite team no matter how much bhangra the fans do. It is just not going to happen.

They might have a good period every 4-5 years where they look like a great team for a few matches, but they will be brought back to earth every single time.

Henceforth, instead of blaming the coaches and the selectors, the fans should lower their expectations to meet the standard of the team instead of trying to force the team to match their expectations.

The gap between fans expectations and the actual of ability and capability of the team is huge, and that is the real source of disappointment and frustration.

What a fan expects or whom a fan blames has little to no bearing on how the cricket is played.

 

[Mamoon]

What a fan expects or whom a fan blames has little to no bearing on how the cricket is played.

Absolutely, but it has a huge bearing on the emotional well-being of the fans.

 

[Saj]

Humiliating, shambolic, embarrassing, pathetic, awful - all words that can truly be used to described the last 2 ODI performances.

 

[Mamoon]

Errmm I don’t know if you follow football at all seriously but yes, Watford FC fans do ask for their coaches to be sacked for underperforming as well as any other club!

Your crusade here is to get people to lower their expectations? Wow noble cause young man. Keep at it. When you grow up or get that chip of your shoulder, let us know

You don’t get it do you?

Watford fans will never demand a manager to be sacked just because they did not win the PL or qualify for the UCL? Why?

Because they realize and understand that it is not their level. Their objectives are different from the big clubs and hence their definition of underperforming is also different.

Watford fans will want their coach to be sacked if they get relegated, while Chelsea fans will want their coach to be sacked if they don’t qualify for the UCL. We are talking about different levels.

Pakistanis fans should accept the tier-2 status of the team and not throw tantrums when we lose to India, Australia, England, New Zealand etc. (including their reserve teams) in LOIs because this is what is supposed to happen.

These teams are supposed to beat Pakistan. It is not the other way around. If Pakistan beats them or wins a trophy, it should be considered as a miracle like Greece winning the Euros and West Indies winning the CT in 2004.

Pakistani fans should learn to stay in their own lane. As long as we can occupy 6th or 7th position in the rankings and remain a solid side in Test cricket in home conditions, all’s good and there is no reason to bash the coach and the selectors.

As far as Misbah is concerned, losing to Sri Lanka D at home in the T20Is was a sackable result. However, losing to England D in ODIs is not, because England is at a different level.

 

[Babar_Azam_fan]

Lol at people giving excuses

After the 1st match, "one match it can happen"
Now, "couple of bad games, it can happen"

After the 3rd odi it'll be, "just one series, it can happen"


This Pak team has neither skills nor the right attitude

Only one person is worth watching, that is Hasan Ali. Make him the captain rather than a player who is just too soft a player, let alone a captain, whose most runs are against minnows, and just one match winning innings in all three formats combined in a career of 6 years

 

[PakLFC]

Disgraceful performance by Pakistan, but it goes deeper than that. I.e. the so called coach and coaching staff and the chief selector. Embarrassing.

I see. So which genius or even good player was left out of our side? Face facts that even our best side is a third rate one, none of our players would get into the first eleven of any other top side. Best thing to do is not to expect anything from them after that they can only surprise us if they ever win. Waiting for someone to say how the players were not given enough time to acclimatize our the pitches were poor The selectors have nothing to choose from, the coach does not play himself.

 

[Savak]

Fans are over reacting and this is why we never have a stable side. Even the best teams have had a bad match or series. Even Kohli has lost series against England and New Zealand and even South Africa. You don't see the Indians take it so personally that they panic and make wholesale changes. You have to back your best 15-20 players through thick and skin and play them for a long period of time. Even the Australian side in the mid 80's and early to mid 90's went through a torrid inconsistent patch.

 

[Minnowbasher]

We always act shocked after such defeats but there is nothing shocking about it. Its typical Pakistan. Remember being bowled out for 105 against Windies in the World Cup? Remember losing 3-0 to Sri Lanka C AT HOME.
The reality is we are and always have been rubbish at bilateral series and we tend to play slightly better but not much in icc tournaments.
Our side isnt any better or worse than it was in say 2014 when Misbah was the captain. It's always been the same we just react to wins like we are the best team in the world and losses like we are the worst.
In truth we always have been a middle ranked side that cant compete against big 3 sides + NZ and will only be competitive against teams like SL, WI, Bangladesh and SA.

 

[SangasCoverDrive]

Fans are over reacting and this is why we never have a stable side. Even the best teams have had a bad match or series. Even Kohli has lost series against England and New Zealand and even South Africa. You don't see the Indians take it so personally that they panic and make wholesale changes. You have to back your best 15-20 players through thick and skin and play them for a long period of time. Even the Australian side in the mid 80's and early to mid 90's went through a torrid inconsistent patch.

I am pretty sure if Kohlis India loses to England D team, they would want him removed too

 

[Savak]

You don’t get it do you?

Watford fans will never demand a manager to be sacked just because they did not win the PL or qualify for the UCL? Why?

Because they realize and understand that it is not their level. Their objectives are different from the big clubs and hence their definition of underperforming is also different.

Watford fans will want their coach to be sacked if they get relegated, while Chelsea fans will want their coach to be sacked if they don’t qualify for the UCL. We are talking about different levels.

Pakistanis fans should accept the tier-2 status of the team and not throw tantrums when we lose to India, Australia, England, New Zealand etc. (including their reserve teams) in LOIs because this is what is supposed to happen.

These teams are supposed to beat Pakistan. It is not the other way around. If Pakistan beats them or wins a trophy, it should be considered as a miracle like Greece winning the Euros and West Indies winning the CT in 2004.

Pakistani fans should learn to stay in their own lane. As long as we can occupy 6th or 7th position in the rankings and remain a solid side in Test cricket in home conditions, all’s good and there is no reason to bash the coach and the selectors.

As far as Misbah is concerned, losing to Sri Lanka D at home in the T20Is was a sackable result. However, losing to England D in ODIs is not, because England is at a different level.

Lol, if Misbah cannot make much of a difference then why keep him in the squad? Same argument for Waqar? I understand that you enjoy a government job therefore needing to perform to retain your job will be an alien concept to you.

 

[Minnowbasher]

Fans are over reacting and this is why we never have a stable side. Even the best teams have had a bad match or series. Even Kohli has lost series against England and New Zealand and even South Africa. You don't see the Indians take it so personally that they panic and make wholesale changes. You have to back your best 15-20 players through thick and skin and play them for a long period of time. Even the Australian side in the mid 80's and early to mid 90's went through a torrid inconsistent patch.

Yeah and even though posters will say "but this is Englands C team kohli didnt lose to them" the response is Pakistan just aren't playing enough competitive ODI cricket these days and so the players haven't had much experience playing with each other. Add to that the fact that us fans are always calling for players to be dropped after every bad performance then you've got a team that's barely played together come the next world cup.

 

[Savak]

We always act shocked after such defeats but there is nothing shocking about it. Its typical Pakistan. Remember being bowled out for 105 against Windies in the World Cup? Remember losing 3-0 to Sri Lanka C AT HOME.
The reality is we are and always have been rubbish at bilateral series and we tend to play slightly better but not much in icc tournaments.
Our side isnt any better or worse than it was in say 2014 when Misbah was the captain. It's always been the same we just react to wins like we are the best team in the world and losses like we are the worst.
In truth we always have been a middle ranked side that cant compete against big 3 sides + NZ and will only be competitive against teams like SL, WI, Bangladesh and SA.

This is correct as well. A team and country that lacks a lot of new options at the domestic level and where domestic cricket is mostly dominated by TTF's who get exposed at the international level, chopping and changing will be big suicide and further destabilize the team. Win, Lose, Draw, you have to back your best available 15-20 players in the team for long periods of time if you want to build a settled team in the long run.

Our inconsistency and lack of quality players ultimately is a result of horribly neglecting your domestic cricket for a long period of time and we are paying the price for it at the international level.

 

[TheSultan]

Fans are over reacting and this is why we never have a stable side. Even the best teams have had a bad match or series. Even Kohli has lost series against England and New Zealand and even South Africa. You don't see the Indians take it so personally that they panic and make wholesale changes. You have to back your best 15-20 players through thick and skin and play them for a long period of time. Even the Australian side in the mid 80's and early to mid 90's went through a torrid inconsistent patch.

I get that argument, but the problem with it that is we don’t play the same 15-20 players. And who’s fault is that? The coach, captain, selectors. So someone has to be culpable somewhere.

 

[Savak]

Yeah and even though posters will say "but this is Englands C team kohli didnt lose to them" the response is Pakistan just aren't playing enough competitive ODI cricket these days and so the players haven't had much experience playing with each other. Add to that the fact that us fans are always calling for players to be dropped after every bad performance then you've got a team that's barely played together come the next world cup.

Actually what Babar Azam needs is a Stephen Fleming type of calm and security when he led the NZ side from 1997 to 2007. Its the same exact situation where both players were the best players in their side where the team was totally dependent on them. Flemming however benefited from being from a country where Cricket was not even the main sport hence Win, Lose, Draw no one cared and the players were able to enjoy the game and go through the evolution, learning process from wins, losses, draws gradually. Babar does not have this luxury and will sadly be scrutinized after every game but in order to build a side and to elevate it to something decent in International Cricket where the top 5 teams are miles ahead of Pakistan Cricket and where Pakistan's Domestic Structure is not unearthing any world class talent and is filled with TTF's who have failed internationally, the country has to back the best 15-20 players in the country and stick with them for a long period of time to allow them to develop.

 

[Savak]

Those crying about Pakistan losing to a England B, C team. Have we not lost badly to county teams, to South African domestic teams, to Australian domestic teams whenever we have toured these countries? Talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill

 

[TheSultan]

The problem with comparing BAbar and Fleming or Graeme Smith or any other young captain is that babar is just a simpleton. He doesn’t think about the game. He is not a natural leader. All he has is batting talent and ability, that’s it. Even as a batsman, his innings management is nothing special either.

Fleming was tactically, strategically good even when he started captaincy and became a great leader over time.

 

[Kroll]

Under MA, we pumped England with their ‘core nucleus’ in CT and last WC, high pressure matches that mattered.

Can’t say we’d do the same with the clowns Misbah and Waqar.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

More than talent, Intelligence is the key word here. And i have to agree with Mamoon here - no amount of coaching at the national level (even if you get the best coach that money can buy) will be able to drum intelligence, sense & match awareness in this bunch of players as all these stuff have to be drummed into the players from a young age. And i am convinced- this lack of intelligence is all pervasive within the system - you replace this bunch of guys with another bunch - the result will be exactly the same.

The solution is to get players to think on their feet & not blindly follow the coach/captain. And this cant happen overnight- you will need a complete overhaul of the domestic coaching methodology.

It was actually a dig at those posters who go on about talent all the time by which they are talking about raw physical ability. Pakistan does not lack that at all.

But they are a pretty low skilled side. Current England side dont have bowlers of the ceiling that any of Shaheen, Hasan or even Rauf possess but despite having a lot less experience than the Pakistani attack bowled quite a bit better than the Pakistani bowlers in terms of accuracy.

 

[cricket4all]

I see. So which genius or even good player was left out of our side? Face facts that even our best side is a third rate one, none of our players would get into the first eleven of any other top side. Best thing to do is not to expect anything from them after that they can only surprise us if they ever win. Waiting for someone to say how the players were not given enough time to acclimatize our the pitches were poor The selectors have nothing to choose from, the coach does not play himself.

There is no genius waiting. You miss the point. I'll repeat and extend my other post:

There is no denying that the team is awful lacking class and temperament as well as elementary school boy stuff. They simply are not good enough. A coach can not wave a magic wand and fix things. However, proper qualified coaches and proper selection can help at least help even 5% to go in the right direction. At he end of the day you could have the greatest coach and the worst team in the world but only so much the coach could do as he can not play for the team. The coach still matters and even a 5% improvement in direction and technique can help otherwise whats the point of having any coach at all?

What can help lift any cricket team go that bit further is a very good and strong captain who fights and leads from the front. I can’t see that in Babar just yet. I would say a strong captain is most important than any coach.

As for the chief selector, yes there is no geniuses waiting in Pakistan but I am not talking about this series in isolation. Generally, there seems to be no clear direction in selection. You get nonsensical tried or tested players or those who are getting on a bit making debuts.

 

[Saj]

Would Pakistan have raised their game if this was the English first team playing - or perhaps it would have been even more embarrassing?

 

[Mamoon]

Lol, if Misbah cannot make much of a difference then why keep him in the squad? Same argument for Waqar? I understand that you enjoy a government job therefore needing to perform to retain your job will be an alien concept to you.

I couldn’t care less about Misbah and Waqar. Sack them tomorrow if you wish, but my point is that it will not change anything.

It might be an alien concept for you and other Pakistani fans to comprehend but the reality is that our players are just not good enough. You can hire any coach you want, they will remain the poster boys of mediocrity.

 

[Saj]

I couldn’t care less about Misbah and Waqar. Sack them tomorrow if you wish, but my point is that it will not change anything.

It might be an alien concept for you and other Pakistani fans to comprehend but the reality is that our players are just not good enough. You can hire any coach you want, they will remain the poster boys of mediocrity.

Valid point.

The players are the problem.

Yes you can point the finger at the selectors for one or two strange selections and the coach for some strange tactics at time, but by and large these are the best players Pakistan has and they are simply not good enough when it comes to playing the top sides.

 

[ahmedzee]

Yes, a professional coach like Mickey who lost around 30 of his last 40 ODIs and lost Test series to Sri Lanka and New Zealand in the UAE.

Classic Pakistani fan denial - blame the coach but refuse to accept the fact that the players aren’t good enough.

Can you back that up with some stats. Mickey was a fantastic limited overs coach, where Pakistan achived #1 T20 ranking, won Champions Trophy, and even had a decent WC2019 (5 or 6 wins straight in a tournament is no joke).

Yes, the test record was poor, that I agree.

 

[Savak]

I couldn’t care less about Misbah and Waqar. Sack them tomorrow if you wish, but my point is that it will not change anything.

It might be an alien concept for you and other Pakistani fans to comprehend but the reality is that our players are just not good enough. You can hire any coach you want, they will remain the poster boys of mediocrity.

I understand your point. My point is why have a coach if they can't make any difference and if they need world class players to show results? It's a useless post and a free riding post Imo. Cricket did not even have the post of the coach till the 90's

 

[Mamoon]

Can you back that up with some stats. Mickey was a fantastic limited overs coach, where Pakistan achived #1 T20 ranking, won Champions Trophy, and even had a decent WC2019 (5 or 6 wins straight in a tournament is no joke).

Yes, the test record was poor, that I agree.

Pakistan were a joke under Mickey in ODI cricket from 2018 onwards.

If you want stats, here are the stats for Pakistan in ODIs after the Champions Trophy fluke and the 5-0 whitewash of an out of sorts Sri Lankan team in UAE.

From 1 Jan 2018 until Pakistan’s last World Cup game, consequently the last ODI of Mickey’s tenure, Pakistan played 41 matches and lost 24.

Among those 24 wins, 5 came against Zimbabwe, 2 came against Afghanistan and 1 against Hong Kong.

Pakistan played 33 ODIs against Australia, India, England, New Zealand, South Africa, Bangladesh and West Indies and won only 7 matches.

33 matches, 7 wins. That is a minnow level performance and worthy of getting the coached flogged in the streets let alone sacked.

This marvelous period of ODI cricket also including a record-breaking 12 match losing streak.

So after 3 years of coaching by a professional, qualified and competent coach like Mickey, all Pakistan had to show was 7 wins in 33 matches against decent opposition.

What does this show? It shows that the problem is not the coaching - the problem is the players. They are simply not good enough.

Misbah has inherited the same set of players and they are rubbish under him just like they were rubbish under Mickey.

The next coach will also inherit the same rubbish players who simply do not have the talent or the skill and the mentality to regularly beat the top teams.

As far as the World Cup is concerned, Pakistan had a very average campaign.

Our World Cup basically ended after the very first game when we collapsed to 105 all out vs West Indies who took 13 overs to chase the total.

It nuked our NRR and we had one foot out of the door since.

This what we had to show for after getting the best possible preparation leading into the World Cup thanks to a 5 match ODI series with England in England. It doesn’t get better then that.

In order to compensate for the disaster-class against West Indies, we needed to win at least 2 of the 3 matches against the three best sides in the world - England, India and Australia.

We only managed to win one of these three games.

South Africa had a shambolic tournament so beating them was not a big deal. They pretty much lost to everyone except Australia.

The win against New Zealand was impressive but we were aided by a slow pitch where 250 was the par total. On a quick pitch New Zealand would have beaten us.

The other win was against Afghanistan where we were soiling our pants and were aided by umpiring blunders. Imad Wasim was plumb LBW when he was on 0. That win was purely down to luck.

The win against Bangladesh was a dead-rubber.

Overall, Pakistan had a very ordinary World Cup and finished with a negative NRR. Among all teams, it had the third worst NRR.

Thanks to the lack of talent of our team, our fans were left with no choice but to swallow their hollow pride and support India against England, and then they started crying because England beat India.

Furthermore, Pakistani fans have tried to sell this dummy that we were unlucky because the match against Sri Lanka was washed-out.

It is true that Pakistan would have been favorites for that match, but if Sri Lanka could beat England, Pakistan could beat England, Bangladesh could beat South Africa, Afghanistan could nearly beat Pakistan and India, then Sri Lanka could also have beaten Pakistan.

On one hand, Pakistani fans do bhangra that we are unpredictable and you never know which Pakistan will turn up, but on the other hand, they try to convince you that Pakistan was guaranteed to beat Sri Lanka.

Moreover, the India vs New Zealand group game was washed out as well. Considering the fact that New Zealand beat India in both the warmup and the semifinal, there is a considerable chance that they would have beaten them in the group as well.

Their tactics and combinations were working against India in that World Cup.

Thus, based on the matches that actually happened, Pakistan had an average World Cup and did not deserve to qualify for the semifinals thanks to the embarrassing NRR.

 

[Mamoon]

I understand your point. My point is why have a coach if they can't make any difference and if they need world class players to show results? It's a useless post and a free riding post Imo. Cricket did not even have the post of the coach till the 90's

You need someone to give direction to the team. Contribute to the selection of the playing XI, group the players, lead training sessions, organize everything etc.

A coach is basically a manager, and it is up to the captain to devise tactics, develop an identity, create a brand of cricket, uplift players etc.

It doesn’t help when your captain is a bottler with the personality of a cardboard and the players are so talentless that the only brand of cricket that they can play is called mediocrity.

It is absolute shambles - the players aren’t good enough, the captain isn’t good enough, their is no winning mentality, no intelligent characters, no leadership, no star quality.

It is mediocrity through and through, and simply scapegoating the coach will provide a temporary escape but it will not change the reality.

These days, I keep hearing about how we need to have data analysts and adopt an analytical approach towards the game.

All that is fine, but ultimately, the only thing that matters is whether the players have the ability and the intelligence to execute when the moment arrives.

Haris Rauf is thicker than a plank. You can feed him all the data analysis you want, but when the moment arrives, will he able to execute those plans or will he continue to throw rocks at the batsmen with no thought-process?

All this fancy stuff only works when the players are good enough and intelligent enough. Our players lack those characteristics in abundance.

 

[PakLFC]

There is no genius waiting. You miss the point. I'll repeat and extend my other post:

There is no denying that the team is awful lacking class and temperament as well as elementary school boy stuff. They simply are not good enough. A coach can not wave a magic wand and fix things. However, proper qualified coaches and proper selection can help at least help even 5% to go in the right direction. At he end of the day you could have the greatest coach and the worst team in the world but only so much the coach could do as he can not play for the team. The coach still matters and even a 5% improvement in direction and technique can help otherwise whats the point of having any coach at all?

What can help lift any cricket team go that bit further is a very good and strong captain who fights and leads from the front. I can’t see that in Babar just yet. I would say a strong captain is most important than any coach.

As for the chief selector, yes there is no geniuses waiting in Pakistan but I am not talking about this series in isolation. Generally, there seems to be no clear direction in selection. You get nonsensical tried or tested players or those who are getting on a bit making debuts.

"However, proper qualified coaches and proper selection can help at least help even 5% to go in the right direction". We do have proper qualified coaches and have perhaps changed them more then any other side yet it makes no difference. The point of the coach is deciding on tactics and even choosing the playing 11 on the day.

Good thing is in Cricket and Sport in general generations change very quickly.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Valid point.

The players are the problem.

Yes you can point the finger at the selectors for one or two strange selections and the coach for some strange tactics at time, but by and large these are the best players Pakistan has and they are simply not good enough when it comes to playing the top sides.

Why are they not good enough? What has pcb done to develop the game at grassroots?

Has anyone realized that there is a problem of not good enough players or are they stuck on Pakistan has too much talent.

When you have players, selectors, administrators playing the gallery and hyping up players this happens.

Too many games versus Zimbabwe Sri Lanka and co.

PCB needs to be professional. Lots need to be invested at the grassroots. Present dispensation needs to go. You cannot grow a sports and make a team by playing to the gallery and making off the cuff snide remarks.

A strong Pakistan team is good for cricket.

 

[Hitman]

A strong Pakistan team is good for cricket.

Perfectly said. We have already seen the downfall of the West Indies which has been devastating to cricket. Then there are Sri Lanka and South Africa who have declined.

A strong Pakistan team is very much required for international cricket.

 

[Technics 1210]

It’s time to make Hasan Ali captain.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I was actually expecting a series loss yet was still rooting for Pak to win. It's not that Pak have lost the series, it's the manner with which they have lost is a big concern.

This series has been the most CT2013 esque Pakistan since 2013.

The bowling attack manages to do reasonably well but the moment our team comes in to bat, they start shivering. Our batters are looking just as worse as they did in CT13, 2012 ODI series against England in UAE, 2014 ODI series vs Australia in UAE, Bangladesh ODI series in 2015.

I have only been disappointed by Babar though. Imam with all his boasting 50 avg career, has been a poor batter against good opposition just like in 2019wc. Rizwan is still sorting out his batting in the middle order. Saud was okay. Sohaib so far has looked his usual previous self. Shadab is not an allrounder. Fahim still has a highest score of 30 something after playing ODIs for 4 years now.

I just feel like Misbah can't keep our bunch on their toes which is when they are in a working condition.

 

[Savak]

Why are they not good enough? What has pcb done to develop the game at grassroots?

Has anyone realized that there is a problem of not good enough players or are they stuck on Pakistan has too much talent.

When you have players, selectors, administrators playing the gallery and hyping up players this happens.

Too many games versus Zimbabwe Sri Lanka and co.

PCB needs to be professional. Lots need to be invested at the grassroots. Present dispensation needs to go. You cannot grow a sports and make a team by playing to the gallery and making off the cuff snide remarks.

A strong Pakistan team is good for cricket.

If you care so much about Pakistan Cricket. Maybe you should lobby with the BCCI to tour Pakistan and make up for the last 3-4 cancelled home series or pay the due compensation and to stop the nationalistic black listing of Pakistani players from the IPL by the IPL franchise owners

 

[globalcitizen]

If you care so much about Pakistan Cricket. Maybe you should lobby with the BCCI to tour Pakistan and make up for the last 3-4 cancelled home series or pay the due compensation and to stop the nationalistic black listing of Pakistani players from the IPL by the IPL franchise owners

The things we hear here always, IPL is not good enough to improve your skills. So by that logic Pakistan is not missing anything. PSL, BPL, CPL,SLPL is more than enough

How naive of you to think an average fan has lobbying privileges with board or do you? Lol

 

[Pakhs]

This is a humiliating loss which needs to be investigated, What are the root causes of the loss? Unusual nature of LOI tracks? Both tracks had seam assistance for England quicks which they exploited.

We should not forget the same team beat England full strength team in the WC and CT17 before that. There have been a lot of losses in England in bilateral however Pakistan have beaten England in the two games that have mattered.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

If you care so much about Pakistan Cricket. Maybe you should lobby with the BCCI to tour Pakistan and make up for the last 3-4 cancelled home series or pay the due compensation and to stop the nationalistic black listing of Pakistani players from the IPL by the IPL franchise owners

India or any other country is not obligated to improve Pakistan Cricket and distribute money to PCB freely.
May be some you should lobby your government to implement your suggestion to take a surcharge of 5 PKR per Pakistani citizen and put that money for grass roots improvement rather then paying millions to Mani/Wasim and co.