"I blame these increasing terror attacks on the current Islamophobia post-9/11" : Imran Khan

[WhenSultansBowled]

There are millions of Afghanis living in the West, and almost none of the terrorist attacks have been done by the Afghanis, but they have been done by the Saudis or other Arabs or Islamists. This should be enough for you to stop using the excuse of Afghanistan.


You say billions of Muslims are peace loving?

But why these billions of peace loving Muslims are then supporting the Shariah laws in their countries when these Shariah laws are usurping the basic human rights of Preaching and changing the religion.

And why these so called billion of peace loving Muslims are supporting the blasphemy laws in their countries?

Why these billion of so called peace loving Muslims are not ready to give rights to others to even raise a voice for having modern secular laws in Islamic countries instead of centuries old Sharia laws?

And lastly, how much these so called peace loving Muslims integrate in the Western Societies? They marry the western girls, but never let their girls marry the Westerners.

Could you guarantee us that these billions of so called peace loving Muslims have no Kafirophobia as has been taught by the religious books?

I am not using any excuse. Just saying plain facts.

And lastly, how much these so called peace loving Muslims integrate in the Western Societies? They marry the western girls, but never let their girls marry the Westerners.

Come on dude, you are not making any sense. Spoke like a true mullah

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

What do you mean by the bolded part? He is not part of the Indian media. He is not a tv anchor and he does not work for a news agency. Just because he has made a few appearances as a sports celebrity does not make him a part of the mainstream media. If you are referring to social media, well it is a moot point anyway - if voicing your opinion on the Internet makes you part of the media, then all of us qualify as media people.

Again, what is so surprising or shocking if Gambhir does not agree with how the Indian media has demonised the Muslims at times? As a patriotic Indian, why can't he criticise a certain aspect of the Indian media?

I don't think mine or BaankeJi's comprehension is the problem here - the problem seems to be your refusal to appreciate the fact that Gambhir does not have to agree with the Indian media on every aspect to justify his patriotism for India and his disapproval of Pakistan's state policy.

I have said all I need to say on Gambhir's tweet, I think he has expressed his regret clearly enough so fair play to him. No idea why you are bolding stuff and then going off on a tangent but not interested in discussing side issues so start another thread if you want.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You think the pictures he posted are fake?

No, the pictures are from about a decade ago, I did bold the sentence which was below the picture which is what I disagreed with. Maybe I needed to make the font bigger as well as you missed it. Here it is again:


"Due to this madness, whole of Muslim community is not integrating in the Western society, and they are in state of war with the western values."

 

[Mind]

No, the pictures are from about a decade ago,

Are these photos really decade old?

Neither these Photos are decade old, nor did the Muslims changed their stance about the Sharia. Almost all of them want this same thousands of years old Sharia in their countries, and ready to kill any one who opposes to impose the thousands of years old outdated Sharia laws and raises his voice for Secularism.

I did bold the sentence which was below the picture which is what I disagreed with. Maybe I needed to make the font bigger as well as you missed it. Here it is again:

"Due to this madness, whole of Muslim community is not integrating in the Western society, and they are in state of war with the western values."

I made it clear above that among extremist Muslims, the religion has brainwashed them to an extent where they want to impose Sharia by force in the West.

While this same religion has succeeded in brainwashing the big part of so called non-extremist Muslims too, to not to integrate in the Western society.

The true face of these so called non-extremist Muslims become clear even more in their own countries where their heavy majority campaigns for the Sharia system, and killing in name of apostasy and in name of Blasphemy Laws.

Therefore, my question remains unanswered: If Media is responsible for Islamophobia, then what is responsible for this disease of Kafirophobia among the Muslims?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You are mistaken.

The real cause is this:



Due to this madness, whole of Muslim community is not integrating in the Western society, and they are in state of war with the western values.

These are your words. If you want to come out with dumb stuff like this then you need to be able to back them up, especially as you are using them in a thread where innocent men, women and children were slaughtered by a neo-Nazi group.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Are these photos really decade old?



Therefore, my question remains unanswered: If Media is responsible for Islamophobia, then what is responsible for this disease of Kafirophobia among the Muslims?

This group has no more than 100 followers and do you notice all the signs are not personal views but 'written' by the same person.

The Yanks invade butcher and loot Muslim nation after Muslim nation and you think a few people are problem of the world? Idiotic post.

 

[Mind]

These are your words. If you want to come out with dumb stuff like this then you need to be able to back them up, especially as you are using them in a thread where innocent men, women and children were slaughtered by a neo-Nazi group.

Yes, these are my words. And I wrote before them and after them a lot in order to make it clear what these words mean. Therefore you should stop taking my words out of context. I stand to my words that the extremist Muslims are brainwashed by the religious scriptures to kill the Kafirs, while the so called non-terrorist Muslims are also suffering from the disease of Kafirophobia. They are coming in
towards the European countries, but don't want to integrate due to Kafirophobia.

These so called non-terrorist Muslims are quick to blame the Europeans from suffering from Islamophobia, but they are totally blind of seeing their own Kafirophobia syndrome.

And innocent people have not died due to my words, but they have died due to not recognising the real evils which the society is facing, and thus no reforms were made to end them.

People will stop dying when Muslims will open up their eyes and recognise that they are at moment the main reason of all these killings, otherwise other religious groups don't have such problems in the West, while they have been integrated in the society and not suffering from the disease of Kafirophobia as the Muslims are suffering.

In my opinion, Muslims like you are also responsible for the killing of tens of times more European Civilians while you people are always denying the disease of Kafirophobia and the link to your religious texts to it. Thus some Muslims come to the stage of not integration due to this Kafirophobia, while other go to the stage of killing the Europeans for this same Kafirophobia.

Thus when Imran Khan and Erdogan blame the Media for Islamophobia, then they should also tell about the source of the Kafirophobia too which is the reason of killing of many times more European citizens.

 

[slipcatch]

Yes, these are my words. And I wrote before them and after them a lot in order to make it clear what these words mean. Therefore you should stop taking my words out of context. I stand to my words that the extremist Muslims are brainwashed by the religious scriptures to kill the Kafirs, while the so called non-terrorist Muslims are also suffering from the disease of Kafirophobia. They are coming in
towards the European countries, but don't want to integrate due to Kafirophobia.

These so called non-terrorist Muslims are quick to blame the Europeans from suffering from Islamophobia, but they are totally blind of seeing their own Kafirophobia syndrome.

And innocent people have not died due to my words, but they have died due to not recognising the real evils which the society is facing, and thus no reforms were made to end them.

People will stop dying when Muslims will open up their eyes and recognise that they are at moment the main reason of all these killings, otherwise other religious groups don't have such problems in the West, while they have been integrated in the society and not suffering from the disease of Kafirophobia as the Muslims are suffering.

In my opinion, Muslims like you are also responsible for the killing of tens of times more European Civilians while you people are always denying the disease of Kafirophobia and the link to your religious texts to it. Thus some Muslims come to the stage of not integration due to this Kafirophobia, while other go to the stage of killing the Europeans for this same Kafirophobia.

Thus when Imran Khan and Erdogan blame the Media for Islamophobia, then they should also tell about the source of the Kafirophobia too which is the reason of killing of many times more European citizens.

This dude invented a new word to describe and justify Islamophobia.

Instead of writing paragraphs you could have simply state that you hate Muslims and you want all Muslims to be eliminated.

Here you go “hate Muslims, eliminate Muslims”.

Easy, if you are going to be bigot then own it, stop hiding behind words.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Yes, these are my words. And I wrote before them and after them a lot in order to make it clear what these words mean. Therefore you should stop taking my words out of context. I stand to my words that the extremist Muslims are brainwashed by the religious scriptures to kill the Kafirs, while the so called non-terrorist Muslims are also suffering from the disease of Kafirophobia. They are coming in
towards the European countries, but don't want to integrate due to Kafirophobia.

These so called non-terrorist Muslims are quick to blame the Europeans from suffering from Islamophobia, but they are totally blind of seeing their own Kafirophobia syndrome.

And innocent people have not died due to my words, but they have died due to not recognising the real evils which the society is facing, and thus no reforms were made to end them.

People will stop dying when Muslims will open up their eyes and recognise that they are at moment the main reason of all these killings, otherwise other religious groups don't have such problems in the West, while they have been integrated in the society and not suffering from the disease of Kafirophobia as the Muslims are suffering.

In my opinion, Muslims like you are also responsible for the killing of tens of times more European Civilians while you people are always denying the disease of Kafirophobia and the link to your religious texts to it. Thus some Muslims come to the stage of not integration due to this Kafirophobia, while other go to the stage of killing the Europeans for this same Kafirophobia.

Thus when Imran Khan and Erdogan blame the Media for Islamophobia, then they should also tell about the source of the Kafirophobia too which is the reason of killing of many times more European citizens.

Well since your position is that the whole of Muslim world is refusing to integrate into the western world, then the blame indeed lies with those in the mosques who were gunned down by the heroic neo-Nazi shooter.

With that, I would like to extend my usual courtesy....welcome new member!

 

[Sirris]

Off course this is the common perception. Actually it's a reality. While Muslims have made their eyes closed and neither ready to accept their faults nor want to reform them.

I live in the west and interact with non-Muslim Europeans on a daily basis. In fact some of them are my close friends. I read the local newspaper and read the commentary. They don't have the perception which you claim to be a reality. Yes, there are sentiments and concerns regarding a lack of proper integration, however the severity of the issue isn't as extreme, hopeless and prevailing as you make it out.

I interact with practicing Muslims youth of all sorts of backgrounds in the local Mosque and see them rejecting, expressing anger and disgust by the actions of IS and other extremists. I see them speaking the local language proficiently, going to school, taking part in the local community and contributing constructively to the society. Yes, there parents might no be as well-versed in the language nor interact much with the natives regularly and there also might be couple of youth who chose to remain in their own circle. However the general trend is going in the positive direction.

I have my eyes wide open and ready to accept my mistakes when pointed out and don't shy away from my responsibility to contribute positively to the society I live in.

May I make a wild guess and say you are most likely of Indian origin and had little personal interactions with the people whose perception you claim to know.

False accusation.

No it's not. Rather a case of you lying once again and a lack of ability to accept your mistake. In post #134 above you posted this:

But very important question: "Who filled Muslims with hatred against the European Culture and Values and thus the innocent Europeans have been killed many times more by the Muslims?

It doesn't take much mental capacity to see you are equating Muslims with terrorist. A more appropriate and unbiased question could have been along the lines of:

"What's radicalizing a small but significant percentage of young Muslim so that they are turning towards extremism and violence resulting in the killing of many innocent Europeans and non-Europeans alike?"

You are such a shameless person that you even mentioned "many times more" like as if the death of innocent isn't bad enough and you actually give importance to the amount of innocent killed by Islamic terrorist in comparison to white supremacist terrorist.

No one blamed that all Muslims are the terrorists. You are only twisting the case of the other party and putting words in their mouth.

Yes someone did and that someone is you!

You did it when you initially posed your "very important question" and you did it again when you replied to me and used Muslim as synonymy for terrorists. No one would say "White people are killing Muslims in the mosque" instead it would always be "white supermacist terrorist" and rightly too. Likewise, it is not okay to say "Muslims are killing Europeans" no matter your excuse doesn't take much to say "Islamist terrorists". Words matter and the meanings they imply too hence choose them wisely.

Muslim community as a whole (Heavy Majority) has been blamed for not Integrating in the Western societies, and that is due to that Kafirophobia syndrome.

Just look around, how many Muslims allow their daughters to forget about the centuries old Sharia laws, and to allow them to marry the Western men?

Yes, Muslim men are allowed to marry Christian and Jewish women, while Muslim women aren't allowed non-Muslim husbands. It is one of quite a few hypocritical and double standards of Islamic religion. However, I don't get what this has to do with the price of the tea in China.

A successful integration in the society consists of many deciding factors which are hopefully addressed properly than being primarily focused upon who is letting their daughters marry whom. Just to name a few, a successful integration is about the ability to communicate in the local language, get a proper education and require the skill set to contribute to the society in a constructive manner. It has to do with being a law abiding citizen, being aware of the cultural norms of your society and to maintain good relationship with your fellow countrymen.

Once again, you are being deceitful by trying to sell the narrative "Muslim are stealing western men daughters while keeping their daughters away from them". It has nothing to do with a Muslim woman with a western man. It is not about the race of the husband. It's about his religion. It's about a Muslim woman with a non-Muslim men. A hypocritical standard as I already admitted. Nonetheless, I personally know quite a few western i.e. European converted Muslim men married to Muslim women of Arab, Indonesian and Pakistani origin. So your paranoid perspectives are hollow.

At the same time any Muslim, irrespective of their gender, living in the west would testify to the fact that they not only they prefer to marry fellow Muslims but even go a step further and prefer to marry a Muslim partner from the country of their origin. So Turkish Muslim men and women prefer to marry other Turks, while Pakistani prefer to marry other Pakistani even if it means they have to "export" the partner from back home directly. I admit this sort of mentality doesn't testify to an exemplary integration but that's not the topic of debate.

The more important thing is that you need to either improve your knowledge about the issue or stop spewing ignorant nonsense.

Additionally no one is stealing "Western girl". If an adult chooses to marry or have a relationship with another adult than that's their personal issue regardless of their gender, religion and sexual orientation. Who are you to question their decisions, love and freedom? Allowing for such personal freedom is what makes modern European values worth striving for and differentiates it from the values and views of medieval religious indoctrination. I'd understand your concerns and paranoia if Muslim men were actually tying up western women in big bags and escaping back to their country.

You have a personal problem of not understanding the point of view of the other party, and starting putting up words in their mouth at your own.

Yes I have a personal issue. I have a personal interest in getting to the heart of the problem the world is facing and working towards its realistic and appropriate solution. I have a personal interest in making the world a more peaceful, open-minded and worthy of living in. I have a personal interest in not letting the extremist narrative taking over and increase the chaos in the world. I have a personal interest in not letting you spread paranoia and misinformation. Hence why I see it befitting to expose your dishonest distorting of the situation.

Who is this imaginary "other party" you keep on referring to? Why the heck are you talking like as if someone hired you as their spokesperson?

I am addressing YOUR questions and the ignorant, deceitful and cunning narrative you tried to spread. It's quite funny how when your lies and views are exposed for the shallow generalization they are, who can't hold up under scrutiny, you hide behind some imaginary "other party". If this "other party" is supposedly "Westerns" than the one who is actually putting word in other people's mouth is YOU.

No one is condemning each and every Muslim for the Terrorist actions and killings of the fanatics.

Fanatic Muslims are other problem.

While the so called Moderate Normal Muslims are another problem, and they are not mixed, and they are not blamed for terrorist killing, but they are blame of not integrating in the society due to their Kafirophobia syndrome.

I am glad you at least became aware of your initial mess up and are now differentiating between fanatics and average citizens. Something you didn't think was necessary to do in your initial response but now suddenly feel the need to do so. Anyhow a good gesture by you.

Rubbish.

No and in my most humble opinion: they are actually golden words of wisdom.

If, besides doing hour long documentaries on those misguided Muslim youth with psychological issues who left Europe for IS's terror Khalifa, they had also done documentaries and interviews with those millions of Muslim youth living in West who rejected them and their terror then the general public would have been a lot more well-informed and there would not be an increasing gap among the people. If they had highlighted those Muslims who are well integrated into the society and had acquired good education and were overall a good citizen, then perhaps the white supremacists would have little propaganda material to misuse. By highlighting the very few bad cases they were burning the bridges among the people instead of building them. That's what I see as very problematic.

It is people like Imran Khan and Erdogan who become the champions of moderate Muslims, but still unable to address the faults in the behaviour of the Muslim community, but still keep on only to point out fingers towards the others, and blaming them of Islamophobia, but never ever took the name of Kafirophobia, and never ever tried to reform this problem.

And the Pakistani Media is full of people like Orya Maqbool Jan who have been uttering poison 24/7 against the Western values but Imran Khan does not take blame of wrong doings of his own Muslim Media.

I am not interested in defending Imran Khan's hypocrisy or his World views. I am interested in my own opinions and views on these matters which you are failing to address properly. I already said I only partially agree with him.

Also, I doubt most of the Muslims living in the west are listening to Orya Maqbool Jan hosting his shows in Pakistan. I also doubt that Orya Maqbool Jan's programs are causing an increase in Islamophobia among the general population in the west who don't watch Pakistani channel nor would understand what he is saying.

How should Muslim community according to you reform the problems of "Kafirphobia"?

Reality is this till the time Muslim fanatics are present along with the non integrating Muslim community, till that the Right wing in the west will keep on getting the sympathy and their media campaign is going to get the popularity. And culprit is not the overall Western Media, but the real culprits are the Muslims themselves who come in millions to the West , but still don't want to integrate.

Repeated spewing of the same nonsense and fact twisting which I have already addressed.

Look Europe isn't India. Your wish and eagerness to see rise of right-wing extremism won't come true. The Europeans are smart enough to tackle the challenges of poor integration through proper channels and are not going nuts and supporting extremists ideology anytime soon.

You might think that as a non-Muslim Indian you have more in common with European values than Muslims and hence are in the same boat but you are mistaken. The European values worthy of looking up to aren't the ones involving drinking, dancing, partying and picking up girls. The values that Europe has which distinguishes it from the rest of the world and gives it the certain edge, are the ones which the great European thinkers like Voltaire, Immanuel Kant and Rousseau wrote about in their works. If there are heroes to be taken from the European culture and history than they are not the right-wingers or the pop-culture celebrities, they are men like Galileo Galilei.

Lame excuse.

No other community is at such extreme as the Muslim community despite lac of education and poverty. And if there is any, then they are also criticized like the crimes among the Latino community.

But none of them have the problem of Kafirophobia. This problem is only associated with the Muslim community, and they have been suffering badly with this disease.

Interesting to see you differentiate between different degrees of extremism. Extremists who condone violence and killings are equally bad and there isn't a measuring unit to differentiate the varying degrees. Criminals are criminals all over the world so don't know what you are trying to get at by mentioning those Latinos, however you could have condemned Hindu extremist if you were so sincere.

Look at ISIS, Taliban, Syrian Jihadists, Boko Haram and you will find these millions of terrorists who are holding the arms in name of Sharia. They are not limited to Europe only.

Why didn't you quote my full response to that ill-founded exaggeration of yours?

Just accept your mistake like a sincere person. You were talking about those numbers in the context of Muslim population in the West. Yes we already know that the Islamic terrorists are mostly based in Muslim countries and are harming the local population the most. No need for you to point out the obvious. Besides your math is wrong AGAIN. As explained by my very generous estimate the total number of violent extremist involved in terrorist activities around the world is 400'000. You can show me the official estimates by the CIA if my estimate is way off. I am betting my limb CIA's official numbers will be lower than my estimates.

There you will always fail and the extremist Muslims are always going to win the argument, while the proper historical context always standing with the extremist Muslims. That is why Muslims of last 14 centuries followed that opinion, till in this century some apologists tried to make excuses for these killings and hatred teachings out of context.

It will fail if people like you keep on undermining the efforts of Muslims who are busy countering the narratives of the terrorist and openly condemning and disassociating Islam and Quran from the terrorist's actions. It will fail if people like you show no remorse and solidarity with the sacrifices of Muslim and just shrug your shoulders while whispering "Muslim killing Muslims, not my concern". It will fail if people like you spread misinformation and suspicions about average Muslims accusing them of suffering from "Kafirphobia" and due to which, according to you, it is only going to be matter of time until they too turn into terrorists. It will fail when supposedly unbiased and neutral outsiders like you choose to validate and approve of the terrorists narrative on those controversial topics instead of lending your helping hand.

At one hand they have to deal with terrorists looking to cut their throats for thinking out of the box and on the other hand they have to face people like you who do not recognizing their efforts while accusing them of being a ticking time bomb and future terrorist due to "Kafirphobia" disease. With friends like you no wonder from time to time terrorists are able to recruit alienated, mentally confused and rejected young kids.

I have no more time to answer your long post where you are repeating the same allegations and making same mistakes again and again.

Actually, you are used to mixing tiny bits of legitimate concern with a heavy load of nonsense and bigotry and getting away with it. No, the lack of time isn't the issue. The issue is that you're actually forced to properly use your mind and reflect upon your words but are unable to coherently elaborate and clarify your over the top and shallow views. That's why you have to hide behind words like "other party" to disassociate yourself from your embarrassing lies and that's why you weren't able to properly quote my whole response and cherry-picked certain lines to respond to. Even then you did a poor job at it.

How can I be your typical Muslim or even "Muslim apologist" using same allegations, when where appropriate I blamed the right parties. From the beginning I admitted:

- Media alone isn't the reason behind increasing distrust among the European population and repeated terrorist attacks are to be blamed too.

- There is a certain number of Muslims in the west who are showing resistance to integrate properly.

- There are certain controversial verses in Quran. However Muslim scholars won't ever condemn any verse of Quran openly or eliminate any from the text without being forced to accept Islam as another man made religion.

With this post I further admit that:

- There are certain hypocritical and double standards in Islamic teachings.

- Islamic teachings don't allow the same level of personal freedom which modern European values do.

Despite my willingness to put the blame where it is due, you accuse me of closing my eyes, not accepting any faults and of repeating same allegations. Such blatant lies are in line with your deceitful and insincere character.

 

[Blistering Barnacle]

and what about countries like Pakistan who keep on allowing Wahabism to be preached just so that we could get some money from the Saudis?

Imran is not responsible for the parties of the past and their respective policies. To try to put this on him after around 6 months in govt is disingenuous at best and an outright fraudulent claim otherwise.

This is hopefully now changing, by the way, under the only govt that actually gives a damn about the people.

Frankly, it's outrageous for you to try to lay this at Imran and the PTI's feet. How much of a **'er can you be?

 

[Blistering Barnacle]

Not only Imran, but 99.9% of the Muslims have been saying the same since 9/11. There is nothing unique about his comment and neither is it particularly insightful - it is simply a general statement that has been made a billion times by a billion people. Not sure why people are congratulating him for stating the obvious.

It is understandable that this attack - or any attack on Muslims - is considered as an outcome of the rising Islamophobia in the modern world, and the white supremacists who carry out these attacks are terrorists and should be called out for who they are.

Nevertheless, when it comes to Islamophobia, we need to identify its origins and its cause. This is of course not an attempt to justify it, but is simply an attempt to understand its prominence. Not everything can be justified, but there is always a reason for everything.

It is also important to put ourselves in the shoes of others and look at it from a different perspective. The vast majority of the terrorist organisations conduct these attacks in the name of Islam, and the vast majority of terrorists identify themselves as the true followers of Islam.

As Muslims, we are quick to dismiss that notion and claim that these people have nothing to do with Islam, and are following a version of the faith that cannot be further from the truth, since Islam is not a religion that propagates terrorism and violence.

However, you cannot expect the non-Muslim community to respect these intricacies and exhibit a clear understanding of the distinction between the version of Islam that the Islamic terrorists claim to follow (the minority) and the version of Islam that the majority of peaceful Muslims claim to follow.

When one particular religion or ideology is overwhelmingly prevalent when it comes to terrorism, it is inevitable that people will develop a degree of skepticism and will not have a favourable outlook towards that particular religion.

This is something that people who are quick to play the Islamophobia card need to understand. Yes it is true that the vast majority of Muslims have nothing to do with terrorism, but it is also true that the vast majority of terrorists claim to be Muslims and carry the banners of Islam. In a situation like this, how do you expect Islamophobia to not flourish?

If the followers of some other religion were so predominant when it comes to terrorism, a large portion of the people who now condemn Islamophobia would be making sweeping statements about that particular religion and its followers. In Pakistan, we are witnessing this practically when it comes to India.

Over the last few years, communal violence and religious discrimination have been on the rise in India. As a result, people in Pakistan have not been shy of making sweeping statements about how India has become an extremist country, the people are not tolerant, it is not a safe country for Muslims etc. etc.

They do not show any sensitivity and regard to the fact that the vast majority of Hindus in India are tolerant and peace-loving, and thus it would be a generalisation to put these labels on India based on the actions of a minority of Hindus.

Our views on India these days are no different to the views of the so-called Islamophobes, and thus we are clearly showing traits of Hindu/Indophobia. However, because of our collective biases, we fail to practice what we preach and unfortunately, have lost the ability to recognise our double-standards and hypocrisy as well.

I believe that sweeping everything under the carpet as Islamophobia and playing the "if it is a brown man he is a terrorist, if it is a white man he is mentally deranged" card is not the solution to this problem.

No problem can ever be solved without recognising the problem and understanding the symptoms. Islamophobia and the general stereotyping of Muslims is not the root cause of Islamic terrorism; it is the result of the fact that the vast majority of terrorists and terrorist organisations identify themselves as Muslims.

We Muslims and the Muslim countries also need to look inwards and recognise the elements within the teachings of Islam that when taken out of context, can lead to extremist ideologies. After all, these terrorist organisations frequently quote the teachings of Islam to defend and justify their actions, and how all of this is simply an act of jihad which is the duty of every Muslim.

Not a single terrorist that has identified himself as a Muslim has ever claimed that his actions are not in line with Islamic teachings, and thus, within the teachings of Islam, there is undeniable potential of misinterpretation that have sowed the seeds for terrorism and extremism.

As a result, instead of accusing the world of Islamophobia and giving protection to terrorists and militants for the sake of geopolitics, it is important for Muslim leaders to do more and promote the peaceful version of Islam, not only through awareness but by adopting a zero-tolerance policy. This is the only long-term solution of putting an end to Islamophobia.

It will only flourish as long as we (the Muslims) sit and do nothing apart from condemning it, while the majority of the terror attacks are conducted in the name of Islam. That is what has happened post 9/11 and this what is going to happen in the future if we don't change our ways.

I get what you're saying, but if you look at the stats, around 75% of terrorist attacks in the last 10 years in the USA have been by people who don't have any association with Islam. In fact, they're mostly right wing radicals. Yet the fear and paranoia is directed towards "islamic terrorists".

That's a pretty telling statistic. However, it's not popular amongst politicians, as it doesn't have any traction politically.

You have also apparently sucked up this narrative.

 

[Sirris]

You think the pictures he posted are fake?

Well at least this picture in question isn't of Muslim fanatics living in Europe and threatening European values. It is actually a protest by Afghan students in Afghanistan in year 2009. So not only is it not from Europe it literally is a decade old. LOL. Serial liar and distorts of facts caught live in action again.

Another picture from same event with the source:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/39717304@N03/4044074045/in/photostream/

caption:

"Afghan university students shout anti-US slogans and hold a banner reading "No Democracy; We want just Islam!" during a demonstration in Kabul on October 25, 2009. Furious Afghans on October 25 torched an effigy of US President Barack Obama at a mass protest over allegations that Western troops fighting the Taliban had set fire to a copy of the Koran."

Who can blame them for having such sentiments when all they know about the bearers of such "democratic" values is their frigenting fighter jets and cluster bombings. How are you going to convince a already backwards minded nation of the benefits of modern secular values by first destroying much of their country and humiliating their values by burning their sacred texts. No wonder USA's approach isn't working. They have zero regard or clue about the sentiments of the natives of lands and want to force people into accepting democracy. Without training the mind one can't bring true change.

Then these same images are used for right-wing Propaganda.

If you google search the picture in question you will see countless sites misusing it to spread fear about muslim immigrants. Like these site for instance:

https://americandailypatriot.com/sharia-law-poll/

LOL thinking about deporting "evil" Muslims who are already living in the war zone that's Afghanistan and never left the country to begin with.

https://dcgazette.com/2015/the-real-purpose-of-islamic-immigration/

Use of these same images on topic of "Islamic immigration" to promote their twisted right-wing conspiracy theories. No mention of the image source and therefore left to the paranoid readers imagination.

https://globaleconomicwarfare.com/2015/09/immigration-as-economic-warfare/

Again no caption or source of the image mentioned. While using the buzzword "immigrants"

https://cowgernation.com/2015/02/26/lawmakers-say-its-time-to-reconsider-islamic-immigration/

What irony in a thread where we are discussing the wrong use of media leading to distrust and misinformation we are able to witness exactly that. To top it off the person who unintentionally shared this with us is the same person who is trying to convince us there is very little to no link.

 

[Blistering Barnacle]

By the way, this article is a must read for those so-called Atheists who believe Islam is the worst thing to happen since unsliced bread:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/apr/03/sam-harris-muslim-animus

 

[Sirris]

[MENTION=149108]Mind[/MENTION] listen you can't express ill-founded views on highly sensitive issues and expect to get away with. It's time to have both of ours views examined and scrutinized. It shouldn't be all too hard to express one's sincere and honest views candidly, if the goal is to get a better understanding of the problem. However if the goal is to support a certain narrative, no matter what and if one's ego and pride is on the line then it becomes a bit difficult to be coherent and precise with one's words.

Now in your latest reply you did try to elaborate your position but left many points I made unanswered so in this post I am going to quote and highlight those claims which I think you must clarify and failed to do so.

Unresolved claim #1:

While Muslims are almost negligible in numbers in countries like Brazil and Poland etc as compared to UK, Germany and France.
Secondly, these countries are not know for their Human Rights as UK, Germany and France.
If Muslim minority try to make such attacks in these countries, then response from the Majority against the Muslim community will be tens of times more as compared to UK, Germany and France.

Muslims also know it and thus fear the response.

to which my reply was

Few things to note:

- You once again equate common Muslims with Islamist terrorists. In other words it seems like for you this holds: a Muslim = terrorist.

- You seem to live in a distorted paranoid reality where there is some kind of a Muslim conspiracy where Muslims, who all incline towards terrorism in your view, intentionally pick those country as targets where they fear less response from the population. So let me get this straight the terrorist who blows himself up in a metro situation and hence gets killed, still somehow fears the response of the population? He is already dead! Oh and his concern for the local Muslim community can’t be all too high either, since when he blows himself up in a jam-packed train Muslims and non-Muslims alike are killed.

- You somehow think that people in eastern Europe are barbaric and still live in medieval times, who would not hesitate to punish and lynch a whole community for the actions of some. If they have no regard for human rights than what exactly differentiat their culture and values from the culture and values of a terrorist?

Honestly in your attempt to deny a clear pattern between the countries the terrorists chose to target and the countries free from any terrorist activity, you have shown your true nature of an ignorant, deceitful and shameless person.

Ok let me for one moment accept your worldview and try to argue in it. So the Muslims choose their target countries with a strategy in mind. However, now the recent events have shown that Muslims aren’t save in New Zealand, even though so far they haven’t strategically done any terror attacks in New Zealand ( as you mentioned because they think Kiwis don’t respect human rights as much as the likes in UK and France).

Ok so what can we expect the new strategy of Muslims to be? Since apparently even if they attack in countries like UK and France they should regardless still fear attacks in other countries where they are in less numbers. So can we expect Muslims to drastically decrease their terror attacks in lights of these new findings? Or can we expect them to attack all countries since they wont remain their unharmed anyway? What's your expert opinion on these daramatic turn of events?

Unresolved claim #2

What to talk about Brazil and Poland, just look at India. There are about 180 million Muslims in India, but living like coward jackals.

Yes, Indian Muslims are living like coward Jackals, due to the fear of the extreme Hindutva forces in India.

my response:

Oh great! another insight in your distorted, ignorant and bigoted world view.

So let me get this straight if Muslims in some part of the world aren’t acting out there terroristic inclination and are living peacefully it must be because they are cowards and has nothing to do with them being perhaps genuinely of peaceful nature. It is also good to see you indirectly justifying Hindu extremism, apparently it’s there to keep those evil terroristic inclinations of Muslims in check and deserves no condemnation nor is it a problem, got it!

How can one even feel motivated enough to argue with you. When no matter the situation, no matter the odds you are always going to spin it in a way to support your narrative, no matter how ridiculous and lunatic it might be.

Finally I had also developed a small pop quiz for you to help us identify the core issues, unfortunately you left them unanswered. I feel compelled to give you the F grade for such bad performance on the Quiz, however I genuinely want you to do good and help you come out of your distorted world view so you get additional time:

Pop Quiz #1:

Through out your post you have been repeatedly painting the scenario of a decisive, pre-planned, Muslim conspiracy where "millions of muslim are eager to come to west to loot it". Let's look at the recent surge of muslim refugees towards Turkey and european countries.

Q1) Do you think this surge of millions of muslim towards west is becuase:

a) Muslim text tells them to run in millions towards the West to loot it.

b) The direct consequence of the ongoing war in Syria leaving millions displaced and without any shelter.

Q2) Why didn't these millions of Syrians think to "run towards west and loot it" before the year 2011?

a) They where busy reading their religious text and hadn't gotten to the part where it tells them to go to west and loot it.

b) There was no devastating war in Syria yet.

The complete original posts can be found at the following links.

Yours: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-9-11-quot-Imran-Khan&p=10186889#post10186889

Mine reply: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-9-11-quot-Imran-Khan&p=10187032#post10187032

your final reply which I honestly think was inadequate and rather poor:
http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-9-11-quot-Imran-Khan&p=10187174#post10187174

As a bonus to further help us in our learning experience I have developed a second pop Quiz.

Pop Quiz #2:

On the problematic of widespread "Kafirophobia" in moderate and fanatic Muslims alike:

Q1) We know the prevailing "Kafirophobia" syndrome among the Muslim masses is causing them to go nuts unannounced and turn into terrorists and killing innocent people they see as "Kafirs". With a total population of over 3 million Indians, among them overwhelmingly Indian Hindus, build up the largest expatriate community in the UAE, Qatar and the broader Gulf region.

What are the vast majority of Indian Hindu "Kafirs" doing there despite the dangers and general knowledge of "Kafirophobia"?

a) They are innocent and naive people unaware of the widespread "Kafirphobia" disease. The Government of India is requested to improve its public awareness program, while taking steps to bring them back home safely and immediately.

b) The Indian Hindu "Kaffirs" are running in millions towards that Muslim Arab region to loot it.

c) The "Kafirophobia" syndrome is a made up delusional disease to spread panic and mass-hysteria, hence why economically disadvantaged Indian Hindu "Kaffir" are able to relatively peacefully earn some money to provide for their family back home, albeit under relatively harsh conditions.

d) None of the above. Please specify _____________________________
​

Q2) In the light of "Kafirophobia" syndrome theory we are also stuck with dichomoty:

How come the millions of Muslims residing in the Gulf region are able to have their "Kafirphobia" disease under control and rarely if ever hear about them going on a killing spree against the Hindu "Kafirs"?

a) They are cowards who are afraid of the backlash of Hindu extremists.

b) There "Kafirophobia" is currently at satge 2 and needs to be at least at stage 4 to have any visible symtoms.

c) The sun of the desert helps them get a ocerdose of Vitamin D which is know to surpress "Kafirophobia" related diseases.

d) The "Kafirophobia" syndrome is a made up delusional disease to spread panic and mass-hysteria, hence why economically disadvantaged Indian Hindu "Kafir" are able to relatively peacefully earn some money to provide for their family back home, albeit under relatively harsh conditions.

d) None of the above. Please specify _____________________________

​

---Good Luck!---​

Look the time isn't relevant to me. You can take as much time as you want to sort out your views and positions. Refer to academic literature if you have to and feel stuck. However we must get to the bottom of these issues. After all they are highly relevant issues of our times and concerns the peaceful co-existent of mankind and the well being of our loved ones, regardless of race, gender and world view.

 

[Madplayer]

Why do people have a problem with Sharia? Punishments are less than 4% of Sharia code while the rest of it deals with other issues. Some of the Sharia based values are enshrined in the US constitution as well.

 

[Madplayer]

Penal code vs Sharia law

https://youtu.be/QMIFeD7bbUI

 

[Major]

Imran is not responsible for the parties of the past and their respective policies. To try to put this on him after around 6 months in govt is disingenuous at best and an outright fraudulent claim otherwise.

This is hopefully now changing, by the way, under the only govt that actually gives a damn about the people.

Frankly, it's outrageous for you to try to lay this at Imran and the PTI's feet. How much of a **'er can you be?

1) stop crying about 6 months, he has the govt now, stop shifting the blame.
2)he is in govt right now, he could close down wahabi madarassahs.
3)when we take money from other govts, there are some conditions and other things that are placed on the table. What do you think MBS gave us that donation just because we are muslims?

PTI is in govt now, stop this dramaybaazi of shifting the blame on previous govt.

This govt was running fake schools in KPK.

 

[Realromeo]

Are these photos really decade old?

Neither these Photos are decade old, nor did the Muslims changed their stance about the Sharia. Almost all of them want this same thousands of years old Sharia in their countries, and ready to kill any one who opposes to impose the thousands of years old outdated Sharia laws and raises his voice for Secularism.





I made it clear above that among extremist Muslims, the religion has brainwashed them to an extent where they want to impose Sharia by force in the West.

While this same religion has succeeded in brainwashing the big part of so called non-extremist Muslims too, to not to integrate in the Western society.

The true face of these so called non-extremist Muslims become clear even more in their own countries where their heavy majority campaigns for the Sharia system, and killing in name of apostasy and in name of Blasphemy Laws.

Therefore, my question remains unanswered: If Media is responsible for Islamophobia, then what is responsible for this disease of Kafirophobia among the Muslims?

LOL this is like saying all the white people are white supremacists.

 

[Realromeo]

Why do people have a problem with Sharia? Punishments are less than 4% of Sharia code while the rest of it deals with other issues. Some of the Sharia based values are enshrined in the US constitution as well.

1. Who are these "people" ?
2. People don't have very good knowledge nor positive view towards Sharia law so they will always be against it.
3. Media has demonized Sharia law so people will forever be scared of it even it doesn't have much to be scared about.

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">For all those within & outside the Muslim world these words of Shaheed Naeem Rashid's wife should make everyone understand the power of faith in Allah & Prophet Muhammed PBUH. 1/2 <a href="https://t.co/AmmFngi9HO">pic.twitter.com/AmmFngi9HO</a></p>— Imran Khan (@ImranKhanPTI) <a href="https://twitter.com/ImranKhanPTI/status/1108247153808429056?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 20, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">How this faith in Allah and his Prophet PBUH transforms humans into strong & loving beings who can even feel pity for a terrorist, a mass murderer, who took away their loved ones. 2/2 <a href="https://t.co/KfrAy8qGv2">pic.twitter.com/KfrAy8qGv2</a></p>— Imran Khan (@ImranKhanPTI) <a href="https://twitter.com/ImranKhanPTI/status/1108247469593382912?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 20, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[MenInG]

The Labour party has formally adopted a definition of Islamophobia, arguing that it is vital to tackling the rise of far-right racism.

A party spokesperson said its national executive committee had adopted the working definition produced by the all-party parliamentary group on British Muslims “to help tackle Islamophobia, build a common understanding of its causes and consequences, and express solidarity with Muslim communities”.

The definition reads: “Islamophobia is rooted in racism and is a type of racism that targets expressions of Muslimness or perceived Muslimness.”

The definition was produced by the group to build a common understanding of the causes and consequences of Islamophobia. It was decided upon after a six-month consultation with academics, lawyers, elected officials, Muslim organisations, activists, campaigners, and communities.

More than 750 British Muslim organisations, 80 academics and 50 MPs have backed the definition. Naz Shah, the Labour MP for Bradford West and a shadow minister for women and equalities, said all political parties should adopt the definition.

“This could not be more urgent, while Islamophobia has been rising in our society and across the world, and support for the far right and their extremist white supremacist views is growing,” she said.

“Instead of challenging and campaigning against this hate-filled prejudice, many politicians have actively fuelled it, from the Conservatives’ overtly Islamophobic campaign against Sadiq Khan becoming mayor in 2016 to Boris Johnson’s vile comments about Muslim women.

“We must work together to rid our country of this evil, starting by urging widespread adoption of this definition so we can create deeper understanding and awareness at every level of our society.”

The Liberal Democrats have adopted the same definition.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/20/labour-formally-adopts-definition-islamophobia

 

[Sirris]

I am very impressed by the way New Zealand's media and government have managed this crisis. Hats off.

 

[shaaik]

PM Khan calls NZ counterpart Ardern, appreciates 'humane handling of terror attack'

Prime Minister Imran Khan on Thursday, in a phone call with Prime Minister of New Zealand Jacinda Ardern, expressed his admiration for the humane way that the Christchurch terror attack was handled by New Zealand authorities.

Prime Minister Khan also extended an invitation to his counterpart to visit Pakistan.

During the phone call, the prime minister appreciated the quick response of local New Zealand authorities and the high level of respect shown by Prime Minister Ardern for Muslims.

Ardern has shown the way to other leaders in the face of rising Islamophobia and global extremism, said a press release from the prime minister's office.

The premier said that he was calling Ardern on behalf of the people of Pakistan to thank her for her compassion, leadership and decisions, which have won her many admirers in Pakistan.

The prime minister also conveyed his condolences over the loss of 50 lives in the attack. He said that Pakistan stands by the government and people of New Zealand in this hour of grief.

Ardern said that New Zealand was in shock after the incident and told PM Khan about immediate action taken after the attack, including the banning of all military style semi and automatic guns and assault riffles.

She also acknowledged the sacrifices of Pakistanis in the attack, particularly the bravery and valour of Naeem Rasheed — the man who lost his life trying to snatch a weapon away from the shooter.

Ardern assured the premier that New Zealand would continue to ensure the freedom and protections of Muslims living there.

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/sh...ch-New-Zealand

 

[The_Odd_One]

Why do people have a problem with Sharia? Punishments are less than 4% of Sharia code while the rest of it deals with other issues. Some of the Sharia based values are enshrined in the US constitution as well.

Because it is their choice. Democracy allows citizens of a country to choose a system that works for them. You cannot enforce a system on people just because you think it is better.

 

[MenInG]

ISLAMABAD: Prime Minister Imran Khan on Monday said that Muslim countries should collectively voice their concerns against Islamophobia and stand up to the West for associating Islam with terrorism.

The prime minister was addressing the Ulema and Mashaikh Conference in Islamabad during which he said that since he understands the West better than others, he has raised the issue of Islamophobia on all forums from time to time.

"The West conveniently associated Islam with terrorism but in the last 20 years, Muslim countries unfortunately, did not respond to this narrative," he said. "Muslim leaders should have stood up to the West and made it clear that there is no link between Islam, or any other religion, with terrorism."

The premier explained that extremists exist in all societies, but when western countries started using terms like "radical Islam," "Islamic extremism," and even started associating suicide bombing with Islam, Muslim leaders did nothing to counter this disinformation campaign against Islam and the problem kept worsening.

"Before 9/11, suicide bombings were majorly carried out by the [Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam] in Sri Lanka, a group comprising Hindus, but nobody ever associated Hinduism with terrorism," he said, adding that before the World War II, the Japanese also carried out suicide attacks in American ships but no one associated their religion with terrorism.

He said that those Muslims living in Western countries, and even in India, are facing a lot of problems because of Islamophobia.

"When Muslim women living in the West go out of their houses wearing a headscarf, people taunt them," the PM said. "Similarly, bearded Muslim men have to face derogatory remarks."

The PM assured that he will continue to raise his voice against Islamophobia.

'Religious scholars play an important role in society'
During the conference, he also said that religious scholars have historically played an important role in the creation of Pakistan and they continue to do so, therefore, they should make the masses aware of the concept of Riyasat-e-Madina.

The PM added that when people "forget the distinction between good and bad, society moves toward disintegration and destruction."

"It is my faith that any nation which follows the concept of Riyasat-e-Madina will move towards advancement," he said. "The same rules which were seen in Riyasat-e-Madina can now be seen in welfare states, especially in Scandinavian countries."

He said that corruption is another important issue on which the Ulema should educate people to make this menace unacceptable in the society.

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I welcome Prime Minister <a href="https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@JustinTrudeau</a>'s unequivocal condemnation of <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Islamophobia?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Islamophobia</a> & his plan to appoint a Special Representative to combat this contemporary scourge. His timely call to action resonates with what I have long argued. Let us join hands to put an end to this menace</p>— Imran Khan (@ImranKhanPTI) <a href="https://twitter.com/ImranKhanPTI/status/1487678500509298688?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 30, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>