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ICC decide on an additional ICC World T20 event in place of the Champions Trophy in 2021

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">ICC Members have signed off a new Future Tours Programme (FTP) for 2019-2023 that incorporates the introduction of a World Test Championship and an additional ICC World T20 event in place of the Champions Trophy in 2021 <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/989468607305469953?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 26, 2018</a></blockquote>
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Meh, two WT20's in two years is stupid but the Champions Trophy is a horrible and pointless tournament so glad to see it scrapped.
 
Champions trophy was the one with the least audience and least popularity among all ICC tournaments. So it was expected to go. But replacing that with another T20, that too right after having one the previous year, is really pathetic from ICC
 
Champions trophy was the one with the least audience and least popularity among all ICC tournaments. So it was expected to go. But replacing that with another T20, that too right after having one the previous year, is really pathetic from ICC

I think the logic is that the T20 world cup would be open to maximum number of teams, and then the Champions trophy would be limited to the top 8 or 10 teams.

What this does is signal a major emphasis shift from ODI to T20 as the de facto format of the LOI game. ODI games will only exist in the world cup, and the minimum bilateral games required to qualify for the ODI World Cup.

Its a shame. Because ODIs are a much better format of the game than T20s from a cricket quality perspective.

But the ICC is not going to allow T20s to be dominated by bilaterals and domestic leagues. It wants to make sure it its pound of flesh.


The recent change in voting rules allows the Giles Clarke Coterie to ram these changes through, over the wishes of some major stakeholders. They may enjoy the fruits of the red wedding now, but winter is coming. :srini
 
Champions trophy should have been continued,with 8 teams.T20 WC every 2 years with 16 teams.ODI WC every four years with 14 or 16 teams
 
Pathetic stuff
But so glad that CT has been scrapped.
Hope there are 24 teams in 2021 T20 WC
 
Champions trophy should have been continued,with 8 teams.T20 WC every 2 years with 16 teams.ODI WC every four years with 14 or 16 teams

Since ODI WC will have only 10 teams; it makes no sense to have a tournament like CT
 
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BCCI has clearly lost its clout. CT is any way a useless tournament, should just bin it completely. Converting it to T20 has made it more irrelevant.
 
So this happened against the BCCI's will, it would seem....interesting

Although what BCCI was proposing was a better choice for the first time ever but ICC over-ruling them shows a consistent behavior. Not surprising for the neutrals. I understand how it could be shocking for the indian population because they were high due to the internal propoganda kool aid that has made them believe that BCCI can get off with anything (just like India is going to be a superpower by 2020 ).

However, facts point out to something else:

- Dissolvement of Big 3
- ICC playing BCCI's bluff in Champions Trophy after their empty threats
- BCCI's share getting reduced
- ICC making panel on India vs Pakistan series dispute despite BCCI fans constant psy ops telling pakistanis that MOU has no legal standing
- Tournament getting shifted from India to UAE on Pakistan's protest ( although it can be argued that its ACC nevertheless it shows that BCCI are living in a life of delusion)
- and now this

Time to smell the coffee.
 
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BCCI has clearly lost its clout. CT is any way a useless tournament, should just bin it completely. Converting it to T20 has made it more irrelevant.

Not clout. But the ability to use the clout. If bcci now says do this or we will retaliate icc will go running to the CoA and may get a reprieve.

The CoA isnt letting bcci office bearers function properly, hence the issue.

But soon CoA will leave as the govt has come up with the sports code guidelines which when passed will be the law of the land and make the Lodha Committee recommendations redundant.

No more CoA then.
 
And this is why cricket will NEVER progress, unlike football or other sports. The governing body is ruled by a corrupt board that will enforce its decision even if it is not good for the game.

Absolutely stupid decision. Similar to the one where there was a World T20 in 2009 and then again 10 months later.

Why not have no tournament in 2021 instead of having another World T20? Let the champions of 2020 enjoy the cup for 4 years.
 
ICC is run by buffoons either have world T20 every year or every 4 years . They are diluting the word World Cup.

If they want to include associate countries they should have done in 2019 world cup.

World T20 has not value at all , ICC has ruined it spectacularly.
 
And this is why cricket will NEVER progress, unlike football or other sports. The governing body is ruled by a corrupt board that will enforce its decision even if it is not good for the game.

Absolutely stupid decision. Similar to the one where there was a World T20 in 2009 and then again 10 months later.

Why not have no tournament in 2021 instead of having another World T20? Let the champions of 2020 enjoy the cup for 4 years.

FIFA is the worst corrupt sports body in world,ICC is nothing in front of them.
 
This means Pakistan will forever be the reigning CT Champions :sarf2
 
Well, there were back to back world t20s in 09 and 10 so its not unheard of but it is a bit of overload.
 
Champions Trophy should happen every 8 years.

Once a life opportunity to have the 20/20 World Cup in the year 2020. Hope they don’t cancel it to 2021.
 
Makes sense as it gives more opportunities to other teams outside of top 10. I actually liked the Champions Trophy but with the WC reduced to 10 teams and ODI league in place, it just doesn't make sense to have a Champions trophy in place.

The qualification for CT will also be a question mark as the ODI league will determine the direct qualification for the WC. Having the same ODI League also decide CT qualification will be absurd.
 
Someone should ask why is world cup 2019 reduced to 10 teams rather than scrapping CT for another t20 world cup.

Who are people who are making these decisions.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">No more Champions Trophy = Pakistan Champions forever &#55358;&#56593; <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/989547899695624194?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 26, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
dont care since Pakistan won it, we can be eternal champions now

Plus there is precdent for a world t20 every year, its stupid but its happened before

2010 wt20 was barely 9 months after the 2009 one, we were champions for less than a year
 
FIFA is the worst corrupt sports body in world,ICC is nothing in front of them.

Atleast they're holding World Cups every 4 years. There is some kind of consistency.

Here are the World T20s per year, you can figure out how consistent it is:

Two year gap:
2007
2009

World T20 after only 10 months:
2010

Two year gap:
2012
2014
2016

World T20 after 4 years:
2020

World T20 after just a year:
2021


Seems like some people are as confused as the ICC is
 
This is a brilliant decision for two reasons:

La premiére, it kills off the useless irrelevance that was the Champions Trophy and fortifies the World Cup as the main event for 50 over cricket; et

Deux, it pisses off the deluded BCCI ******* who can't see the wood for the trees.

It's win win in my opinion.
 
People are missing the key point here :)

What ICC makes in 4 years from it's tournaments, one season of IPL probably matches that. Now, no other PL or SL would ever match the volume of IPL, it's simply by maths can't be possible - unless IND is broken in to several pieces or somehow BD/PAK's economy starts to grow at double digit rate - by EVERY MONTH. May be EPL had a chance for the strong currency, and 20 times higher per capita GDP than south Asia, but British cricket establishment is stuck in WG Grace era ...... Here, what ICC is trying is cut a pie from IPL from the same market on a same platform - T20.

Couple of months back, I wrote that, I don't mind T20I WC every year - total 7 weeks package; teams play for 4 weeks T20I among themselves to fix the squad, then T20 WC for 17 days - starts on Friday night, ends 2 weeks later on Sunday afternoon ..... no more T20I for rest 45 weeks. If it happens, I can bet my house, IPL'll lost half of it's charm, because whatever we may like to believe, the biggest cricket brand in India in Team Blue, and it'll remain same at least till each of us born in last millennium are interested in cricket.

Make it 14 weeks for a year with 7 weeks slot - summer & winter edition of T20I WC ...... these PLs & SLs will become comic show.
 
People are missing the key point here :)

What ICC makes in 4 years from it's tournaments, one season of IPL probably matches that. Now, no other PL or SL would ever match the volume of IPL, it's simply by maths can't be possible - unless IND is broken in to several pieces or somehow BD/PAK's economy starts to grow at double digit rate - by EVERY MONTH. May be EPL had a chance for the strong currency, and 20 times higher per capita GDP than south Asia, but British cricket establishment is stuck in WG Grace era ...... Here, what ICC is trying is cut a pie from IPL from the same market on a same platform - T20.

Couple of months back, I wrote that, I don't mind T20I WC every year - total 7 weeks package; teams play for 4 weeks T20I among themselves to fix the squad, then T20 WC for 17 days - starts on Friday night, ends 2 weeks later on Sunday afternoon ..... no more T20I for rest 45 weeks. If it happens, I can bet my house, IPL'll lost half of it's charm, because whatever we may like to believe, the biggest cricket brand in India in Team Blue, and it'll remain same at least till each of us born in last millennium are interested in cricket.

Make it 14 weeks for a year with 7 weeks slot - summer & winter edition of T20I WC ...... these PLs & SLs will become comic show.

Agreed! Premier leagues and super leagues will definitely be affected if a T20 world cup is held every year.

However ICC will not be auctioning players and players will be earning only the match fees. I guess IPL will survive this since players are auctioned and huge money is involved. Good players who will be looking for money still give preference to playing it. But it will be become a bit barrier of other leagues.

Maybe English 100 ball will get some attention because its format will be different than WT20. The last over of 10 balls to be bowled by 3 bowlers might make it interesting.
 
Couple of months back, I wrote that, I don't mind T20I WC every year - total 7 weeks package; teams play for 4 weeks T20I among themselves to fix the squad, then T20 WC for 17 days - starts on Friday night, ends 2 weeks later on Sunday afternoon ..... no more T20I for rest 45 weeks. If it happens, I can bet my house, IPL'll lost half of it's charm, because whatever we may like to believe, the biggest cricket brand in India in Team Blue, and it'll remain same at least till each of us born in last millennium are interested in cricket.

You are right that Team Blue is the biggest cricket brand in India, and having a T20 WC every year will cut deep into IPL's and therefore BCCI's revenues.

So what would BCCI do when it sees its money going away? Quite simply stop sending Team Blue to ICC tournaments. After all more than half and growing ICC revenues come from India. That will bring about the showdown between BCCI and ICC, which is likely to happen sometime in the future anyway.

The best players in the world (barring Pakistan) already play in IPL. The best players from SA, WI, SL and NZ will probably play for IPL if their board forces them to choose between playing for their country or playing in IPL.

IPL/BCCI holds lots of trumps in a showdown with ICC, which is probably why ICC hasn't gone to a yearly T20 WC.
 
Agreed! Premier leagues and super leagues will definitely be affected if a T20 world cup is held every year.

However ICC will not be auctioning players and players will be earning only the match fees. I guess IPL will survive this since players are auctioned and huge money is involved. Good players who will be looking for money still give preference to playing it. But it will be become a bit barrier of other leagues.

Maybe English 100 ball will get some attention because its format will be different than WT20. The last over of 10 balls to be bowled by 3 bowlers might make it interesting.



It can, in a different way.

Look at the WC as a business proposition (for the sake of saying, say 16 teams, twice a year). It'll generate more revenue than IPL for sure from broadcasting, gate money, media rights, endorsements & other co-branding. Now, you have to distribute the money in a way that players are benefited, but across the globe, not 11 crore to Unadkot.

1. Arrange the tournament in different countries in a 4 years cycle (8 hosting rights, some can be shared by smaller boards like BCB/SLCB) - hosts gets significant amount after netting off the cost, which'll increase the financial capacity of smaller boards significantly. This'll help them to develop the infrastructure as well - no point giving 100 countries some status when most of them don't have fundamental facilities to carry on the game.

2. Share broadcasting/endorsement/media money among ICC members in a revenue sharing model; still BCCI should get highest pie, but whatever others are getting is their bonus - 100% IPL money was going to IND/BCCI, apart from the wage of 64 players - but that blocked 3 months for almost every other board.

Now, coming to your question - draft (basically how players will be given that fat pay cheque).

It's even easier,

1. Make obnoxious match fee - say $100K/game for starting XI, $75K for 12th man, $50K for rest squad. 16 teams, 4 groups > 24 games > 4 QF > 2SF > F; may be a 3rd-4th play-off to increase chances of IND, PAK, ENG, AUS, SAF, BD to stick till last day - that's 32 games; for a 15 men squad each total match fee is

(11 X 2 X $100K + 1 X 2 X $75K + 3 X 2 X $50K) X 32 = $84.80mn

That's exactly around the amount 8 IPL teams are paying. Difference is, instead of paying $1.5mn to Unadkot's passport, now that amount will be equally distributed to 240 players. A players playing 4 games (QF loss), taking home $400K. $100K is just a figure - business volume will determine the final amount, it can be higher, lower.

This is for one WC - make it twice a years .....


2. Make obnoxious amount of price money - say $100mn is the bucket for 16 teams (Boards).

Winners takes $30mn,
Runners-up 15mn
3rd 10mn
4th 7mn
Losing 4 Q Finalist 16mn (4mn each)
Last 8 16mn (2mn each)
6mn for individual awards

This, makes an incremental payment for best players regardless of nationality + reward for the Boards that nurture their talent best.

3. Pay the guarantee money to the 16 participating boards (And few other associates as well) - this is basically the revenue sharing. It's not necessary that it has to be equal share, BCCI can have higher share because they are taking care of more cricketers as well.

BUT, BUT ..... with a condition that every Board will have to show audit report on how much they are paying to the players - this covers from Virat Kohli to Ranji division 2 reserve (In BD context from Shakib to this new kid Yasin) - Boards can decide which way/category they are going to split the money (basically central contract among National, FC players, match fees, & may be retired players' pension), but the total pay out has to be agreed by ICC - gone are the days of free business class trips for Chairmans' and their families, cham***s at will on Board's money, earned by the players, selling entertainment to the tax payers.

4. Teams (Boards) will have the rights of own branding, therefore their earning will increase because of the WC, which is highest sold event in any country compared to respective PLs & SLs, which includes BCCI as well - now, instead of Mumbai, Mukesh Ambani'll pay for Indian Indians as well. IND still might be the highest bidden jersey, because of the market size that logo is targeted, but this time even PNG can get a fortune from Tata Motors - because eventually, 9 out of 10 people bothering for the WC actually a potential market for Tata Motors, though a single Tata car might not be seen at Post Moresby.

5. Still, Virat Kohli is an endorsement icon because he is Virat Kohli for India - I doubt even a thousand people gives a damn for Virat Kohli of RCB; next year he can be Virat Kohli of CSK - which means, top players won't lose their endorsement money (which is for Kohli's case over 80%), rather it should increase much more if he can become Bhuban for India once in 4 years, than 10 times every year for RCB.

For average cricketers across cricket globe, this is dream - his earning'll increase significantly, instead of 64 non Indians. I for one, never bother for what match fee or central contract fee Shakib is getting - to avoid tiresome road journey, he rented a helicopter for few days when he visited his home town .... and that money isn't coming only form BCB or IPL, it's coming from ATv, BTv, CTv, DTv, ..... ZTv, Alpha group, Beta industries ...; it doesn't matter much for Tamim or Mushi either, BUT it's the minimum amount paid to the poor fellow playing semi pro club/FC cricket and keeping his cooker running that does matter. You can check, top Indian players' IPL earning is just the cream on their caviar palate, so was PSL for Afridi.
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Just kidding - it won't happen, but looking at the numbers, potential are unreal. Cricket as a global sports economy, will surely reach among top 10 sports. Only if they could ensure that rest 8 months there'll be enough Test/ODI Series and FC cricket is well taken care of; otherwise money won't save cricket from extinction.
 
It can, in a different way.

Look at the WC as a business proposition (for the sake of saying, say 16 teams, twice a year). It'll generate more revenue than IPL for sure from broadcasting, gate money, media rights, endorsements & other co-branding. Now, you have to distribute the money in a way that players are benefited, but across the globe, not 11 crore to Unadkot.

1. Arrange the tournament in different countries in a 4 years cycle (8 hosting rights, some can be shared by smaller boards like BCB/SLCB) - hosts gets significant amount after netting off the cost, which'll increase the financial capacity of smaller boards significantly. This'll help them to develop the infrastructure as well - no point giving 100 countries some status when most of them don't have fundamental facilities to carry on the game.

2. Share broadcasting/endorsement/media money among ICC members in a revenue sharing model; still BCCI should get highest pie, but whatever others are getting is their bonus - 100% IPL money was going to IND/BCCI, apart from the wage of 64 players - but that blocked 3 months for almost every other board.

Now, coming to your question - draft (basically how players will be given that fat pay cheque).

It's even easier,

1. Make obnoxious match fee - say $100K/game for starting XI, $75K for 12th man, $50K for rest squad. 16 teams, 4 groups > 24 games > 4 QF > 2SF > F; may be a 3rd-4th play-off to increase chances of IND, PAK, ENG, AUS, SAF, BD to stick till last day - that's 32 games; for a 15 men squad each total match fee is

(11 X 2 X $100K + 1 X 2 X $75K + 3 X 2 X $50K) X 32 = $84.80mn

That's exactly around the amount 8 IPL teams are paying. Difference is, instead of paying $1.5mn to Unadkot's passport, now that amount will be equally distributed to 240 players. A players playing 4 games (QF loss), taking home $400K. $100K is just a figure - business volume will determine the final amount, it can be higher, lower.

This is for one WC - make it twice a years .....


2. Make obnoxious amount of price money - say $100mn is the bucket for 16 teams (Boards).

Winners takes $30mn,
Runners-up 15mn
3rd 10mn
4th 7mn
Losing 4 Q Finalist 16mn (4mn each)
Last 8 16mn (2mn each)
6mn for individual awards

This, makes an incremental payment for best players regardless of nationality + reward for the Boards that nurture their talent best.

3. Pay the guarantee money to the 16 participating boards (And few other associates as well) - this is basically the revenue sharing. It's not necessary that it has to be equal share, BCCI can have higher share because they are taking care of more cricketers as well.

BUT, BUT ..... with a condition that every Board will have to show audit report on how much they are paying to the players - this covers from Virat Kohli to Ranji division 2 reserve (In BD context from Shakib to this new kid Yasin) - Boards can decide which way/category they are going to split the money (basically central contract among National, FC players, match fees, & may be retired players' pension), but the total pay out has to be agreed by ICC - gone are the days of free business class trips for Chairmans' and their families, cham***s at will on Board's money, earned by the players, selling entertainment to the tax payers.

4. Teams (Boards) will have the rights of own branding, therefore their earning will increase because of the WC, which is highest sold event in any country compared to respective PLs & SLs, which includes BCCI as well - now, instead of Mumbai, Mukesh Ambani'll pay for Indian Indians as well. IND still might be the highest bidden jersey, because of the market size that logo is targeted, but this time even PNG can get a fortune from Tata Motors - because eventually, 9 out of 10 people bothering for the WC actually a potential market for Tata Motors, though a single Tata car might not be seen at Post Moresby.

5. Still, Virat Kohli is an endorsement icon because he is Virat Kohli for India - I doubt even a thousand people gives a damn for Virat Kohli of RCB; next year he can be Virat Kohli of CSK - which means, top players won't lose their endorsement money (which is for Kohli's case over 80%), rather it should increase much more if he can become Bhuban for India once in 4 years, than 10 times every year for RCB.

For average cricketers across cricket globe, this is dream - his earning'll increase significantly, instead of 64 non Indians. I for one, never bother for what match fee or central contract fee Shakib is getting - to avoid tiresome road journey, he rented a helicopter for few days when he visited his home town .... and that money isn't coming only form BCB or IPL, it's coming from ATv, BTv, CTv, DTv, ..... ZTv, Alpha group, Beta industries ...; it doesn't matter much for Tamim or Mushi either, BUT it's the minimum amount paid to the poor fellow playing semi pro club/FC cricket and keeping his cooker running that does matter. You can check, top Indian players' IPL earning is just the cream on their caviar palate, so was PSL for Afridi.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just kidding - it won't happen, but looking at the numbers, potential are unreal. Cricket as a global sports economy, will surely reach among top 10 sports. Only if they could ensure that rest 8 months there'll be enough Test/ODI Series and FC cricket is well taken care of; otherwise money won't save cricket from extinction.

In t20 world cup icc wins only when India does well and preferably reaches knock out a. BCCI wins everytime in IPL. There are lots of trump cards BCCI can use, like sending an average team, organizing the t20 after the IPL, thereby sucking all the ad revenue, not marketing the world cup when it is India's turn to host it, etc. Best for ICC would be to develop other markets and play nice with BCCI
 
You are right that Team Blue is the biggest cricket brand in India, and having a T20 WC every year will cut deep into IPL's and therefore BCCI's revenues.

So what would BCCI do when it sees its money going away? Quite simply stop sending Team Blue to ICC tournaments. After all more than half and growing ICC revenues come from India. That will bring about the showdown between BCCI and ICC, which is likely to happen sometime in the future anyway.

The best players in the world (barring Pakistan) already play in IPL. The best players from SA, WI, SL and NZ will probably play for IPL if their board forces them to choose between playing for their country or playing in IPL.

IPL/BCCI holds lots of trumps in a showdown with ICC, which is probably why ICC hasn't gone to a yearly T20 WC.


It's not that easy to leave ICC as well - do you think average Indians will kiss BCCI if they stop participating World Cup? Money is coming from IND for that the mass people are crazy about cricket, not for IPL - WC is a platform, which ICC owns.

I wrote it last time - 6 month's IPL is a pipe dream - it's cutting pie from International schedule. Today people are crazy of IP because in 12 months of International cricket, 2 months come with a different taste. Besides, if IND doesn't tour, then ECB, CA won't be bothering to tour IND either, try to fill that with 4 more months of IPL - a coin has both sides. I actually see another clash - you may check in future; once ECB start their own PL, unless BCCI allows their players to join, ECB will put a bar on English players on IPL as well (or they can choose to leave ECB Central contract, County Contract and EPL Contract for IPL).


I think, your last line is quite intelligent one - ICC is so scared that instead of every year, they have decided to arrange another T20 WC immediately after 2020 WC, in exchange of a CT, which was scheduled to be hosted by BCCI. The most effective way to bully is not to make someone desperate that he goes beyond fear - then fall back often becomes painful. The last ICC voting on revenue sharing can be an eye opener.
 
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There's no need for a Champions Trophy, and WT20 should happen every 2 years as it's not as prestigious as ODI WC. Should've been:

2018: WT20
2019: WC
2020: WT20
2022: WT20
2023: WC
 
In t20 world cup icc wins only when India does well and preferably reaches knock out a. BCCI wins everytime in IPL. There are lots of trump cards BCCI can use, like sending an average team, organizing the t20 after the IPL, thereby sucking all the ad revenue, not marketing the world cup when it is India's turn to host it, etc. Best for ICC would be to develop other markets and play nice with BCCI

Last line is ultimate, no question about that, but the relationship has to be win win, not one sided.

For the 1st part, I ask you a question and be honest with your answer being a proud Indian - tomorrow an WC is arranged and to screw ICC, BCCI decides to send a team led by Dinesh Kartik, and bowling opened by Shardul Thakur ................. then they explain you in an hour long in-depth analysis of financial analysis - why, how ..... and finally what will be long term goal. Then, team IND returns after knocked out in 1st round while BD, PAK, SRL makes it to the next round.

What will you do?
What will you do if it becomes regular once every year?
Or on ODI WC years twice?

This is considering a 16 team booming IPL for 3 months in 2 divisions, containing every star player of cricket world, even from PAK.
 
It's not that easy to leave ICC as well - do you think average Indians will kiss BCCI if they stop participating World Cup? Money is coming from IND for that the mass people are crazy about cricket, not for IPL - WC is a platform, which ICC owns.

As an average Indian, I can tell you that ICC has upset me off enough with its actions that I am ready to say goodbye. WCs and Test series are nice, but I am quite ready to say goodbye if it requires putting up with bad behavior by the ICC.

And once IPL gets the best players in the world, it can bring back the WCs and Test cricket with a more attractive presentation.

Remember Kerry Packer? The best players in the world left the country's teams to play for Packer. IPL is Kerry Packer on steroids. While Kerry Packer's series was barely solvent, IPL is massively profitable and paying its players about 20X of what Packer paid.

No fewer than 8 Australians (6 in the article below plus Smith and Warner) secured $1 million+ contracts for a two-month season.

https://www.cricket.com.au/news/201...l-cummins-stokes-yuvraj-lynn-short/2018-01-27

Imagine with India's growing economy, and a season expanded to 6 months, how much more could the players be paid?

I wrote it last time - 6 month's IPL is a pipe dream - it's cutting pie from International schedule. Today people are crazy of IP because in 12 months of International cricket, 2 months come with a different taste. Besides, if IND doesn't tour, then ECB, CA won't be bothering to tour IND either, try to fill that with 4 more months of IPL - a coin has both sides. I actually see another clash - you may check in future; once ECB start their own PL, unless BCCI allows their players to join, ECB will put a bar on English players on IPL as well (or they can choose to leave ECB Central contract, County Contract and EPL Contract for IPL).

We on this forum spend a lot of time on cricket and our standards are higher. The average cricket fan just wants a bit of "tamasha". Whether it is delivered by international cricket or by IPL, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference.

I think, your last line is quite intelligent one - ICC is so scared that instead of every year, they have decided to arrange another T20 WC immediately after 2020 WC, in exchange of a CT, which was scheduled to be hosted by BCCI. The most effective way to bully is not to make someone desperate that he goes beyond fear - then fall back often becomes painful. The last ICC voting on revenue sharing can be an eye opener.

The last ICC revenue sharing vote was only the first shot in the war which will take a decade or more to resolve. At this point, given IPL's growth and increasing revenues from the Indian economy, I wouldn't bet against BCCI.
 
To put things in perspective. Indian economy has quadrupled in 15 years while earning per capita has tripled in the same period. So the Indian market has far more disposable money at present that it ever had.
 
It's not that easy to leave ICC as well - do you think average Indians will kiss BCCI if they stop participating World Cup? Money is coming from IND for that the mass people are crazy about cricket, not for IPL - WC is a platform, which ICC owns.

I wrote it last time - 6 month's IPL is a pipe dream - it's cutting pie from International schedule. Today people are crazy of IP because in 12 months of International cricket, 2 months come with a different taste. Besides, if IND doesn't tour, then ECB, CA won't be bothering to tour IND either, try to fill that with 4 more months of IPL - a coin has both sides. I actually see another clash - you may check in future; once ECB start their own PL, unless BCCI allows their players to join, ECB will put a bar on English players on IPL as well (or they can choose to leave ECB Central contract, County Contract and EPL Contract for IPL).


I think, your last line is quite intelligent one - ICC is so scared that instead of every year, they have decided to arrange another T20 WC immediately after 2020 WC, in exchange of a CT, which was scheduled to be hosted by BCCI. The most effective way to bully is not to make someone desperate that he goes beyond fear - then fall back often becomes painful. The last ICC voting on revenue sharing can be an eye opener.

The avg Indian will end up supporting Bcci and indian players.

Why will bcci not tour?

Lets assume a IPL from March To June. Thats 4 months and double of what we get today.

It will leave the entire winter for Internationals plus July Sept in case of a England tour.

ICC was able to do all this because bcci is a headless organisation now. Amitabh Choudhury the secretary who attended the meeting is in CoA's line of fire and the CoA has asked him to be removed. So how much power does he have? If the bcci takes a decision the CoA may overrule it. ICC knows this and Manohar knows this thats why they are playing these games.

Regarding the vote, Bcci members were set to pull the team out and a SGM was being held, but before the SGM the then CoA member the idiotic Ram Guha tweeted that India will play. That preempted any decision that SGM and the rest of the CoA could take.

If the National Sports Development Code bill passes soon, BCCI may see a comeback of Srinivasan as well. Manohar and co. Will be running helter skelter then. Bcci is bidding its time till it gets rid of the Supreme Court, because no matter what India is still the money generator.
 
As an average Indian, I can tell you that ICC has upset me off enough with its actions that I am ready to say goodbye. WCs and Test series are nice, but I am quite ready to say goodbye if it requires putting up with bad behavior by the ICC.

And once IPL gets the best players in the world, it can bring back the WCs and Test cricket with a more attractive presentation.

Remember Kerry Packer? The best players in the world left the country's teams to play for Packer. IPL is Kerry Packer on steroids. While Kerry Packer's series was barely solvent, IPL is massively profitable and paying its players about 20X of what Packer paid.

No fewer than 8 Australians (6 in the article below plus Smith and Warner) secured $1 million+ contracts for a two-month season.

https://www.cricket.com.au/news/201...l-cummins-stokes-yuvraj-lynn-short/2018-01-27

Imagine with India's growing economy, and a season expanded to 6 months, how much more could the players be paid?



We on this forum spend a lot of time on cricket and our standards are higher. The average cricket fan just wants a bit of "tamasha". Whether it is delivered by international cricket or by IPL, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference.



The last ICC revenue sharing vote was only the first shot in the war which will take a decade or more to resolve. At this point, given IPL's growth and increasing revenues from the Indian economy, I wouldn't bet against BCCI.

Let Ambanis Jindals Marans Adanis Goenkas lose in the IPL and remove the salary cap, ICC wont know what hit them.
 
At this point, there are lots of hush hush going on, therefore I thinks it's best for us to wait and see - hope it turns into a win win situation for both sides. Cricket already is a marginal sports, division among major players won't benefit the game.

I explained last time (when there was lots of debate on revenue sharing model), that 70% (or so, can't recall the figure) cricket revenue is IND dependent isn't true actually. What happens that, when any such ICC event goes for auction, there is an open bid for media rights and most cases Indian business houses out bids the others, because their economy of scale makes it feasible. BUT, that doesn't mean if IND isn't there ICC will go bankrupt. Let me explain with numbers -

Say for next 5 years, bidding starts (for whole package) - Channel I starts with $25mn; may be they can pay $35mn, but that doesn't make their business case, so they won't bid further. Next bid comes for $30mn .... $60mn ..... Finally, it goes to $500mn from Fox Sports, out bidden to $550mn by Channel 9, out bidden by BT for $650mn, Ten for $700mn, Neo for $750mn ... BBC for $800mn ..... Sky $900mn .... Star $1bn - sky - star - fox - BT - Sky - Star ....... finally Star lands the deal for $1.5bn, beating $1.4bn last bid of Sky. It'll be foolish to think that,

first - that whole $1.5bn is because of IND/BCCI,
second - if Star wasn't there, ICC would have gone to Channel I with begging bowl. May be, Sky won't raise their last bid to $1.4bn, if there is a chance of IND pulling out, but it'll be naive to think that last bid won't go above $450mn (30% of Star's $1.5bn).

I shouldn't make any predictions on hypothetical situations, but it's hard to believe that excluding IND (or any other single board), ICCs revenue should reduce less than may be 20% max - source doesn't matter because the product is cricket and market is audience, 70% of them are Indian. Big 3 was a fantastic idea by Srinivasan, because he took 80%+ of the cricket economy under his feet - had Big 3 been there, I won't have even posted here, because I do understand reality.

But, British has ruled big chunk of world for centuries from a tiny Island for a reason - the moment they realized that Big 3 is basically establishing BCCI hegemony over ICC/World Cricket, marginalizing their authority, they pulled their string - easiest way to start is unite small pieces together against main rival and they'll always have CA by their side. In PP, I read lots of bullish comments on PCB & Nazam Sethi, reading sometimes almost I ........ truth is a bit different, which I can't write here, people'll get upset - these PCB, BCB, CSAF, WICB, NZCB, SLCB ......... are mere pawns.

I never thought annual T20 WC was feasible, let alone twice a year; but as a business concept, it actually is a feasible proposition. Arranging T20 WC very next year of previous one definitely will hurt IPL/BCCI, hence I am really surprised to see that ICC actually took that bold step; may be now they have a bargain chip - 2023 hosting right; BCCI can't back off from WC being host; but after that things should change.

I am also waiting for the proposed reforms of BCCI - let's wait & see how they play the ball.
 
But, British has ruled big chunk of world for centuries from a tiny Island for a reason - the moment they realized that Big 3 is basically establishing BCCI hegemony over ICC/World Cricket, marginalizing their authority, they pulled their string - easiest way to start is unite small pieces together against main rival and they'll always have CA by their side. In PP, I read lots of bullish comments on PCB & Nazam Sethi, reading sometimes almost I ........ truth is a bit different, which I can't write here, people'll get upset - these PCB, BCB, CSAF, WICB, NZCB, SLCB ......... are mere pawns.
.

The truth is the truth. If there is something you have to share with us, go ahead and do it.

You are a well respected poster...so people should understand where you are coming from.
 
At this point, there are lots of hush hush going on, therefore I thinks it's best for us to wait and see - hope it turns into a win win situation for both sides. Cricket already is a marginal sports, division among major players won't benefit the game.

I explained last time (when there was lots of debate on revenue sharing model), that 70% (or so, can't recall the figure) cricket revenue is IND dependent isn't true actually. What happens that, when any such ICC event goes for auction, there is an open bid for media rights and most cases Indian business houses out bids the others, because their economy of scale makes it feasible. BUT, that doesn't mean if IND isn't there ICC will go bankrupt. Let me explain with numbers -

Say for next 5 years, bidding starts (for whole package) - Channel I starts with $25mn; may be they can pay $35mn, but that doesn't make their business case, so they won't bid further. Next bid comes for $30mn .... $60mn ..... Finally, it goes to $500mn from Fox Sports, out bidden to $550mn by Channel 9, out bidden by BT for $650mn, Ten for $700mn, Neo for $750mn ... BBC for $800mn ..... Sky $900mn .... Star $1bn - sky - star - fox - BT - Sky - Star ....... finally Star lands the deal for $1.5bn, beating $1.4bn last bid of Sky. It'll be foolish to think that,

first - that whole $1.5bn is because of IND/BCCI,
second - if Star wasn't there, ICC would have gone to Channel I with begging bowl. May be, Sky won't raise their last bid to $1.4bn, if there is a chance of IND pulling out, but it'll be naive to think that last bid won't go above $450mn (30% of Star's $1.5bn).

I shouldn't make any predictions on hypothetical situations, but it's hard to believe that excluding IND (or any other single board), ICCs revenue should reduce less than may be 20% max - source doesn't matter because the product is cricket and market is audience, 70% of them are Indian. Big 3 was a fantastic idea by Srinivasan, because he took 80%+ of the cricket economy under his feet - had Big 3 been there, I won't have even posted here, because I do understand reality.

But, British has ruled big chunk of world for centuries from a tiny Island for a reason - the moment they realized that Big 3 is basically establishing BCCI hegemony over ICC/World Cricket, marginalizing their authority, they pulled their string - easiest way to start is unite small pieces together against main rival and they'll always have CA by their side. In PP, I read lots of bullish comments on PCB & Nazam Sethi, reading sometimes almost I ........ truth is a bit different, which I can't write here, people'll get upset - these PCB, BCB, CSAF, WICB, NZCB, SLCB ......... are mere pawns.

I never thought annual T20 WC was feasible, let alone twice a year; but as a business concept, it actually is a feasible proposition. Arranging T20 WC very next year of previous one definitely will hurt IPL/BCCI, hence I am really surprised to see that ICC actually took that bold step; may be now they have a bargain chip - 2023 hosting right; BCCI can't back off from WC being host; but after that things should change.

I am also waiting for the proposed reforms of BCCI - let's wait & see how they play the ball.

What makes you think that Indians will be interested in a WC with no India?
 
At this point, there are lots of hush hush going on, therefore I thinks it's best for us to wait and see - hope it turns into a win win situation for both sides. Cricket already is a marginal sports, division among major players won't benefit the game.

I explained last time (when there was lots of debate on revenue sharing model), that 70% (or so, can't recall the figure) cricket revenue is IND dependent isn't true actually. What happens that, when any such ICC event goes for auction, there is an open bid for media rights and most cases Indian business houses out bids the others, because their economy of scale makes it feasible. BUT, that doesn't mean if IND isn't there ICC will go bankrupt. Let me explain with numbers -

Say for next 5 years, bidding starts (for whole package) - Channel I starts with $25mn; may be they can pay $35mn, but that doesn't make their business case, so they won't bid further. Next bid comes for $30mn .... $60mn ..... Finally, it goes to $500mn from Fox Sports, out bidden to $550mn by Channel 9, out bidden by BT for $650mn, Ten for $700mn, Neo for $750mn ... BBC for $800mn ..... Sky $900mn .... Star $1bn - sky - star - fox - BT - Sky - Star ....... finally Star lands the deal for $1.5bn, beating $1.4bn last bid of Sky. It'll be foolish to think that,

first - that whole $1.5bn is because of IND/BCCI,
second - if Star wasn't there, ICC would have gone to Channel I with begging bowl. May be, Sky won't raise their last bid to $1.4bn, if there is a chance of IND pulling out, but it'll be naive to think that last bid won't go above $450mn (30% of Star's $1.5bn).

I shouldn't make any predictions on hypothetical situations, but it's hard to believe that excluding IND (or any other single board), ICCs revenue should reduce less than may be 20% max - source doesn't matter because the product is cricket and market is audience, 70% of them are Indian. Big 3 was a fantastic idea by Srinivasan, because he took 80%+ of the cricket economy under his feet - had Big 3 been there, I won't have even posted here, because I do understand reality.

But, British has ruled big chunk of world for centuries from a tiny Island for a reason - the moment they realized that Big 3 is basically establishing BCCI hegemony over ICC/World Cricket, marginalizing their authority, they pulled their string - easiest way to start is unite small pieces together against main rival and they'll always have CA by their side. In PP, I read lots of bullish comments on PCB & Nazam Sethi, reading sometimes almost I ........ truth is a bit different, which I can't write here, people'll get upset - these PCB, BCB, CSAF, WICB, NZCB, SLCB ......... are mere pawns.

I never thought annual T20 WC was feasible, let alone twice a year; but as a business concept, it actually is a feasible proposition. Arranging T20 WC very next year of previous one definitely will hurt IPL/BCCI, hence I am really surprised to see that ICC actually took that bold step; may be now they have a bargain chip - 2023 hosting right; BCCI can't back off from WC being host; but after that things should change.

I am also waiting for the proposed reforms of BCCI - let's wait & see how they play the ball.

It will take a year or 2 for the BCCI to find its organizational feet, and put the supreme court forced re-organization behind them. But its a guarantee that they won't forget the bullying that's been dished out by the Giles Clarke Faction in the last year or so, and which is bound to continue for another year.

And if the BCCI Elephant decides to retaliate against the ICC, then the pawns that you mentioned are going to suffer in the cross-fire.
 
The truth is the truth. If there is something you have to share with us, go ahead and do it.

You are a well respected poster...so people should understand where you are coming from.

Truth is without one of the 2 boards backing, these are nothing. ECB first sold themselves to S'vasan, then had the reality check, now trying to recover ground. What IPL trying to do, ECB (TCCB) did that for decades - blocking May to SEP period for their own cricket and posted an unofficial ban on cricket outside.

My point is, more than BCCI's might, I am afraid of the incompetence of other boards. There is a serious lack of leadership, vision and unity. PCB declined a tour in BD, for absolutely no reason - 2 months after everyone unitedly voted against BCCI; that CT win went over head, and that's one example of maturity level of PCB & Nazam Sethi. Last year, BCCI declined to tour SAF (curtailed it), main reason was to teach them a lesson - in 3 months notice, PCB & CSAF couldn't fix a 6 match series when one played mighty National T20 and other Dolphin vs Cobra ...... Last time, WIN left IND mid way - probably in 2 weeks time BCCI brought SRL for a make up ..... you can sum it from there.
 
It will take a year or 2 for the BCCI to find its organizational feet, and put the supreme court forced re-organization behind them. But its a guarantee that they won't forget the bullying that's been dished out by the Giles Clarke Faction in the last year or so, and which is bound to continue for another year.

And if the BCCI Elephant decides to retaliate against the ICC, then the pawns that you mentioned are going to suffer in the cross-fire.


That's my biggest concern - ECB, BCCI, can manage, CA will also manage in the shade of one, because they have one small asset - Australian Cricket Team, the Brazil of Cricket. Besides, with or without, ECB/CA can always play 5 Test, 7 ODI & 3 T20 Ashes in every alternate year, may be even every year - that money'll be counted in British pound.
 
Last line is ultimate, no question about that, but the relationship has to be win win, not one sided.

For the 1st part, I ask you a question and be honest with your answer being a proud Indian - tomorrow an WC is arranged and to screw ICC, BCCI decides to send a team led by Dinesh Kartik, and bowling opened by Shardul Thakur ................. then they explain you in an hour long in-depth analysis of financial analysis - why, how ..... and finally what will be long term goal. Then, team IND returns after knocked out in 1st round while BD, PAK, SRL makes it to the next round.

What will you do?
What will you do if it becomes regular once every year?
Or on ODI WC years twice?

This is considering a 16 team booming IPL for 3 months in 2 divisions, containing every star player of cricket world, even from PAK.

of course as of now most will want to see India in national colors. my point was not that. my point is when Indians watch IPL, it doesn't matter who wins as it still holds most of the country's attention. But in a world cup the interest level drops as soon as India starts under performing. Knowing this BCCI always has an ace up their sleeve. they can always manipulate in such a way that IPL always comes up on top..

the best way forward for other teams is to grow their own market. what you are suggesting, basically undermining IPL and growing international cricket, even if it works will not only hurt IPL, it will hurt all other leagues.. The only league which will be able to with standthat kind of attack from international cricket would be IPL due to its huge market. it will always have 200+ million viewers (less than 20 % of Indian population but still bigger than any other cricketing market) ready to spend a summer with it. By trying to undermine IPL, ICC will only undermine all other leagues. And once few years go by with a world cup every single year, even that market will go down.. It will be a marketing disaster man..
 
What makes you think that Indians will be interested in a WC with no India?

There'll be significantly less interest, but still a good part of 1.4bn market will be there. I give 2 examples - there are cricket happening right now without IND or Indian players, still it's not black out in IND - people do watch good cricket. The 2nd one is more appropriate - Soccer is little popular compared to cricket and IND has never played in WC, not is Asia Cup in last 50 years; still WC 2018 will be broadcast in IND, and there'll be significant crowd for that as well.

However, I don't think it'll ever end in such a stand - off that, one has to withdraw from WC. Only 10-12 countries play cricket seriously, it'll ruin the game.
 
of course as of now most will want to see India in national colors. my point was not that. my point is when Indians watch IPL, it doesn't matter who wins as it still holds most of the country's attention. But in a world cup the interest level drops as soon as India starts under performing. Knowing this BCCI always has an ace up their sleeve. they can always manipulate in such a way that IPL always comes up on top..

the best way forward for other teams is to grow their own market. what you are suggesting, basically undermining IPL and growing international cricket, even if it works will not only hurt IPL, it will hurt all other leagues.. The only league which will be able to with standthat kind of attack from international cricket would be IPL due to its huge market. it will always have 200+ million viewers (less than 20 % of Indian population but still bigger than any other cricketing market) ready to spend a summer with it. By trying to undermine IPL, ICC will only undermine all other leagues. And once few years go by with a world cup every single year, even that market will go down.. It will be a marketing disaster man..

That's why I said (even the day 2nd voting went "unexpected") - it has to be win win solution for a co-existence. Here, some times reading I get a feeling that - Udhar Allah/Bhagban/God .... edhar BCCI, beech may humlog hizra ...... it's not the case na.
 
Let Ambanis Jindals Marans Adanis Goenkas lose in the IPL and remove the salary cap, ICC wont know what hit them.

it is not just the money. ICC is really stupid and very short sighted if they think they can keep pushing BCCI and India to the corner and keep tweeting about its PM. IPL as a big advantage. irrespective of who wins IPL, India and thus BCCI always wins. In international cricket ICC wins only when India does well in a tournament. we saw what happened 2007 WC, the interest level dropped instantly. people fail to appreicate how big India is.. It has nearly twice as many people as every other test playing country put together. That ought to give India a huge advantage..

Coming to IPL and all the plans proposed above to undermine it, it just doesn't make sense. every single attempt to undermine IPL will hit every other league in a worse way.. let see some scenarios

- you want to have a world t20 every year for 12 weeks, fine lets have it. it will do well as long as India is still in the run for the trophy otherwise 60% of your market just evaporated. No such problems for IPL
- You extended world 20 to 12 weeks, great lets do it. how much window does it leave for everything else? hardly 9 months and how many more t20 leagues can you have? hardly anything apart from IPL. Every other T20 league will suffer worse than IPL
- Every player will make a call to optimize his playing days.. where will he play, yes of course, top international cricket and IPL..

every single scenario will finally wind down to international cricket and IPL.. if W20 is going to be paying that much, the way MMHS is projecting, more than half of it h as to come from India. So India will always hold the key. Best way forward for ICC would be to play nice with BCCI and find a win win situation. if that means they have to swallow their egos, they will have to.. just see what Microsoft is doing with Linux..
 
There'll be significantly less interest, but still a good part of 1.4bn market will be there. I give 2 examples - there are cricket happening right now without IND or Indian players, still it's not black out in IND - people do watch good cricket. The 2nd one is more appropriate - Soccer is little popular compared to cricket and IND has never played in WC, not is Asia Cup in last 50 years; still WC 2018 will be broadcast in IND, and there'll be significant crowd for that as well.

However, I don't think it'll ever end in such a stand - off that, one has to withdraw from WC. Only 10-12 countries play cricket seriously, it'll ruin the game.

WC happens in England.

BCCI organizes a India A B and C team trophy.

Which will be watched by people in India?

Football WC is a poor example as its not competing with any Indian connection.

Bcci is in a headless position now and ICC is pushing them. If they think bcci will forget this then they are wrong. Bcci is known to keep grudges and it will retaliate.

Manohar and co think they control the board of icc as they have the members. They are forgetting that without Bcci there is hardly any money to feed these boards.

The breaking point may come in Oct 18 as icc may side with PCB.
 
That's why I said (even the day 2nd voting went "unexpected") - it has to be win win solution for a co-existence. Here, some times reading I get a feeling that - Udhar Allah/Bhagban/God .... edhar BCCI, beech may humlog hizra ...... it's not the case na.

sorry, didn't get that reference. what happened?
 
There'll be significantly less interest, but still a good part of 1.4bn market will be there. I give 2 examples - there are cricket happening right now without IND or Indian players, still it's not black out in IND - people do watch good cricket. The 2nd one is more appropriate - Soccer is little popular compared to cricket and IND has never played in WC, not is Asia Cup in last 50 years; still WC 2018 will be broadcast in IND, and there'll be significant crowd for that as well.

However, I don't think it'll ever end in such a stand - off that, one has to withdraw from WC. Only 10-12 countries play cricket seriously, it'll ruin the game.

people will always watch cricket sir.. as i keep saying pick anything and you will find a million people doing it in India :).. you will find a million people watching some random game on the tv.. it is just too big... but the point is, it is just a very small part of the overall market that ICC can tap if they have a vision. currently all they have is a short sight of next year..

second point you are forgetting is that although Indian audience purchasing power is higher compared to Pak and BD, it is no where near that of any other cricket playing nations (may be SA is comparable). this means having such a small portion of Indian market is like having 50K Aussies watching some sport on TV. sure you can make something out of that market, but nowhere near what CA can make out of cricket. so it makes sense to play nice

even other potentially big markets like BD and Pak have long way to go. Even to match current per capita valuations that BCCI is getting out of Indian market, Pak and BD will have to double their valuations. even with doubling it will be less than 1/6th of what India is currently today..

ICC will not go bad by playing nice with BCCI..
 
WC happens in England.

BCCI organizes a India A B and C team trophy.

Which will be watched by people in India?

Football WC is a poor example as its not competing with any Indian connection.

Bcci is in a headless position now and ICC is pushing them. If they think bcci will forget this then they are wrong. Bcci is known to keep grudges and it will retaliate.

Manohar and co think they control the board of icc as they have the members. They are forgetting that without Bcci there is hardly any money to feed these boards.

The breaking point may come in Oct 18 as icc may side with PCB.



I think, people will watch WC - you may think otherwise.

WC is indeed a poor example, it's not cricket, football and IND isn't part of it - still millions watch in IND, which is surprising.

For the bold part, I have read enough forecasts, now waiting to see.

Regarding feeding other boards, I found it quite a face saving bullish comment from someone who kept us charming that - "it's only 1st round of voting, there is a final round and before that BCCI has 3 months to fix". Indeed it fixed - Nidahas trophy, for one vote.
 
WC happens in England.

BCCI organizes a India A B and C team trophy.

Which will be watched by people in India?

Football WC is a poor example as its not competing with any Indian connection.

Bcci is in a headless position now and ICC is pushing them. If they think bcci will forget this then they are wrong. Bcci is known to keep grudges and it will retaliate.

Manohar and co think they control the board of icc as they have the members. They are forgetting that without Bcci there is hardly any money to feed these boards.

The breaking point may come in Oct 18 as icc may side with PCB.

well if BCCI wants to undermine ICC market in India, they can do so many things. lets see

- if they go MMHS route and organize two world up or a world cup every year, where do you think it will happen.. At least once in India and England every four years. When it happens in India, BCCI will organize can organize it right after IPL, after taking the lion share of ad revenue from the advertisers. will this make ICC go bankrupt to, ofcourse not. but it will significantly reduce their revenue
- when does the w20 will happen when it is England turn? almost always right after IPL.. again a world event that happens every year will lose share of revenue when it happens right after IPL
- they can always play around with team selection.. BCCI is under pressure to win the tournament when it is held in India. outside, not that much
- they can also don't give out any contracts for central players for T20.. only IPL contracts.. top players will still play but overall national t20 pool will come down as most will prefer playing IPL to Intl T20. remember the T20I doesn't have the same value for an international player as a Test or ODI holds. by doing it every year, ICC will also be devaluing it anyway.
- IPL can give out exclusive contracts to international players.. yeah they may still play W20, but not much T20 otherwise, thereby killing most of the other leagues


all this assuming no other boards wants to side with BCCI, which is not the case at all.. Being a big market BCCI will always hold the aces
 
At this point, there are lots of hush hush going on, therefore I thinks it's best for us to wait and see - hope it turns into a win win situation for both sides. Cricket already is a marginal sports, division among major players won't benefit the game.

I explained last time (when there was lots of debate on revenue sharing model), that 70% (or so, can't recall the figure) cricket revenue is IND dependent isn't true actually. What happens that, when any such ICC event goes for auction, there is an open bid for media rights and most cases Indian business houses out bids the others, because their economy of scale makes it feasible. BUT, that doesn't mean if IND isn't there ICC will go bankrupt. Let me explain with numbers -

Say for next 5 years, bidding starts (for whole package) - Channel I starts with $25mn; may be they can pay $35mn, but that doesn't make their business case, so they won't bid further. Next bid comes for $30mn .... $60mn ..... Finally, it goes to $500mn from Fox Sports, out bidden to $550mn by Channel 9, out bidden by BT for $650mn, Ten for $700mn, Neo for $750mn ... BBC for $800mn ..... Sky $900mn .... Star $1bn - sky - star - fox - BT - Sky - Star ....... finally Star lands the deal for $1.5bn, beating $1.4bn last bid of Sky. It'll be foolish to think that,

first - that whole $1.5bn is because of IND/BCCI,
second - if Star wasn't there, ICC would have gone to Channel I with begging bowl. May be, Sky won't raise their last bid to $1.4bn, if there is a chance of IND pulling out, but it'll be naive to think that last bid won't go above $450mn (30% of Star's $1.5bn).

I shouldn't make any predictions on hypothetical situations, but it's hard to believe that excluding IND (or any other single board), ICCs revenue should reduce less than may be 20% max - source doesn't matter because the product is cricket and market is audience, 70% of them are Indian. Big 3 was a fantastic idea by Srinivasan, because he took 80%+ of the cricket economy under his feet - had Big 3 been there, I won't have even posted here, because I do understand reality.

But, British has ruled big chunk of world for centuries from a tiny Island for a reason - the moment they realized that Big 3 is basically establishing BCCI hegemony over ICC/World Cricket, marginalizing their authority, they pulled their string - easiest way to start is unite small pieces together against main rival and they'll always have CA by their side. In PP, I read lots of bullish comments on PCB & Nazam Sethi, reading sometimes almost I ........ truth is a bit different, which I can't write here, people'll get upset - these PCB, BCB, CSAF, WICB, NZCB, SLCB ......... are mere pawns.

I never thought annual T20 WC was feasible, let alone twice a year; but as a business concept, it actually is a feasible proposition. Arranging T20 WC very next year of previous one definitely will hurt IPL/BCCI, hence I am really surprised to see that ICC actually took that bold step; may be now they have a bargain chip - 2023 hosting right; BCCI can't back off from WC being host; but after that things should change.

I am also waiting for the proposed reforms of BCCI - let's wait & see how they play the ball.

okay, first of all no one is saying ICC will go bankrupt without BCCI.. that is really pompous of anyone saying that. ICC and cricket survived before India was superpower in cricket and they will continue to do so if India stops playing cricket tomorrow. But the question is will it thrive it the same way.. Today cricketing financial strength is mostly brought by huge market in India.. that security might go away. Sure Pak and BD can fill it, but not tomorrow, may be a decade down the line.. Until then India won't stand still and will become even more bigger market..

what is surprising is the way some of you are defending ICC boss.. I am a shareholder in Apple and if Tim Cook went around behaving with US market or China market, like ICC is doing with India, i will work with others to bring a class action suite. Sure you can leave the market if you have no chance of succeeding like google did in China, but if you are making money in a market you stay there. If your CEO is not ready to work with your biggest market, your CEO goes not your market... CSA realized it, it will take some time for ICC to realize it, but they eventually will.
 
okay, first of all no one is saying ICC will go bankrupt without BCCI.. that is really pompous of anyone saying that.

It is not that ICC will go bankrupt. It is simply that if there is a ICC and BCCI divorce, then BCCI will end up with the best players. It would be similar basketball, where there are basketball leagues in non-US countries, but NBA gets the best talent from all over the world.

I am a shareholder in Apple and if Tim Cook went around behaving with US market or China market, like ICC is doing with India, i will work with others to bring a class action suite. Sure you can leave the market if you have no chance of succeeding like google did in China, but if you are making money in a market you stay there. If your CEO is not ready to work with your biggest market, your CEO goes not your market... CSA realized it, it will take some time for ICC to realize it, but they eventually will.

Precisely! I think at least partly ICC's foolishness is due to Manohar's animosity towards the current BCCI leadership, though he himself is from India. Apparently Manohar is Sharad Pawar's man and they don't like not being in power.
 
It is not that ICC will go bankrupt. It is simply that if there is a ICC and BCCI divorce, then BCCI will end up with the best players. It would be similar basketball, where there are basketball leagues in non-US countries, but NBA gets the best talent from all over the world.



Precisely! I think at least partly ICC's foolishness is due to Manohar's animosity towards the current BCCI leadership, though he himself is from India. Apparently Manohar is Sharad Pawar's man and they don't like not being in power.

To be honest, it is good that this is happening. Now when everything is fine with BCCI in few years time, they know how to deal with everyone. there is no need now for BCCI to arrange yearly trip with Zim, WI. There is no need to bend backwards to host ICC tournaments, etc..

Regarding Manohar, he is obviously doing this due his political afflictions. But what surprises me is complete lack of vision from other boards.. CA and ECB don't have to worry, they always stand on their own legs.. other boards should know that once the dust settles down, BCCI will deal with them and they won't have to feel sorry for them. Obviously BCCI won't be able to bankrupt anyone of them but they can significantly hurt them and make them smaller than they could be otherwise..

In all this tamasha what people are forgetting is, India is actually a powerhouse of cricketing talent.. In the coming decades India will produce enough talent to make IPL worthwhile tournament even with their own talent.. even in this year IPL, which by the way is probably the best in the last few years, most local players are doing great. Few foreigners who are doing great are anyway committee to IPL and have been coming here for years.. all the trend suggests that India will have enough of its own talent make IPL an exciting watch. any foreign participation will obviously spice it up but you don't need all the top players.. Smith, Warner, Rabada, Morkel, Root, starc, hazelwood, cummins, and many other stars are missing and IPL is still one of the most entertaining one ever. There are lot of first choice international stars like Mooen ali, munroe, grandhonne, southee, etc who are actually on the benches most of the time.. So there is ample indication that in a decade time IPL will be fully self reliant as far talent is concerned. it will still import the best in the international cricket, but won't always only depend on them..
 
all the trend suggests that India will have enough of its own talent make IPL an exciting watch. any foreign participation will obviously spice it up but you don't need all the top players..

India was always a batsman factory, but the number of Indian genuine pace bowling youngsters in this year's IPL has been a revelation. I do like the Australian players and hope they keep coming.
 
It is not that ICC will go bankrupt. It is simply that if there is a ICC and BCCI divorce, then BCCI will end up with the best players. It would be similar basketball, where there are basketball leagues in non-US countries, but NBA gets the best talent from all over the world.



Precisely! I think at least partly ICC's foolishness is due to Manohar's animosity towards the current BCCI leadership, though he himself is from India. Apparently Manohar is Sharad Pawar's man and they don't like not being in power.



I believe you are not comparing IND with USA for sure here.

Coming to NBA example (about collecting every top player) - won't happen; I'll take any bate on that - but yes, now you can obviously keep bullying.

Reasons,

1. The bully that some of you use here is India's large GDP, based on vast population; if I use the same route, only UK & AUS has a combined GDP of 1.5 times. For a hypothetical scenario, IND vs rest of Cricket world, you can use Wiki to sum all GDPs. I am not going to per capita income.

2. Latest bluff I read in un-capped wage of IPL - won't happen. No business model will ever allow expense to go in a model that doesn't ensure ROI. I give an example from soccer & same US sports - some of the richest people in world owns Clubs in UK, Spain, France, Italy and US Franchise and their revenue stream is quite big, trust me ... Still, you'll see every club runs within a financial model, and only people that are spending obnoxiously are 2 types - Arab Sheikh, or Russian Mafia; people whose money has no accountability. Still, there are examples of Monaco & Anzi ..... Mukesh Ambani isn't posedu economist, he didn't make his billions from blogging heroics, his every penny is earned - take out IPL wage cap, only thing'll happen is polarization, gap between top & bottom, total pay-out won't move much drastically.

3. Basketball isn't an appropriate example for cricket. Canadian Neishmith was inventor of basketball, and the game started as an organized sports through NBA. WCs & Olympics were competed by amateur players. In that regard, Basketballs identity is NBA, otherwise I can bet hardly anyone here can tell when is next Basketball WC & where. In that regard, soccer is also similar - first organized national tournament was 1904 Olympics, that too by amateurs; first organized pro National game started in 1930 - but Club soccer started in 1850s/60s, therefore the heritage is divided.

Cricket's core is built for a century in National context - it'll take decades to break that monopoly. And, if you think that BCCI will establish that in this way, good luck.

4. Basketball is a North American sports, as I mentioned earlier. Gradually, it expanded across globe and more and more countries started to participate. Considering the narrow span of Basketball in 1960s/70s and the US economy behind it, only way it could expand was NBA. But, gradually US hegemony in basketball is reducing - there is EURO League now and NBA players, instead of sitting on bench are coming to EURO league. It was 1992 first time USA sent NBA players to Olympics, and now they send NBA players to WC, which indicates the game actually is expanding from NBA to outside as well. Here, you are replacing USA with India and telling that cricket will be gradually closed in - again, good luck, I'll be waiting for that.

5. A game has 2 aspects - skills & economy. If you carefully look at basketball, outside USA, which are the best basketball nations - Greece, Russia, Lithuania, Yugoslavia (it's parts), Argentina, few African nations. Apart from USA & partially Canada, none of the other G8 countries are good in basketball, not even China, South Korea, India .... - that actually tells, there is not enough financial muscle behind Basketball to challenge US status co. In cricket's case, I hear lots of bullying on 2.5 trillion - that works nicely against 300bn in a blog, but think it other way - $2000 vs $50000............

2nd aspect is skills - US is so far ahead in Basketball still, that it's more of an US game rather than global game. They are sending their College teams and winning WC/Olympics - if cricket has to be seen in that way, you have to imagine a situation where Ranji reserves can nil Australia 5-0 down under ........ hope it makes sense.


Anyway, my intention was never to mock India or Indians, and my initial post was totally a hypothetical scenario, which I myself don't think ever'll happen - I want Cricket to grow strong and IND has to lead that, market is there and 3 out of 4 cricket fan is an Indian. I avoid such topics carefully, but, in such cases every time discussion ends in a way that we are kids, need to be taught lessons from posedu experts, which is a bit irritating.

Never mind - I didn't respond your last post, because I don't want to roam in circles. Kerry Packer wanted to bring money in cricket which TCC & CA were blocking from their traditional thoughts - so, he won partially, and later TCCB, CA did raise white flag. Here, someone is trying to monopolize money, so that they can pay Unadkot $1.4mn, blocking every others path - and you are saying, everyone'll sit idle and accept fate.

[MENTION=140515]Gubol123[/MENTION] - end it here buddy, no point discussing hypothetical scenario - collateral damage isn't the best way. We are basically opening doors for pushing cricket to 1980s, when London & Sydney used to call shots.
 
India was always a batsman factory, but the number of Indian genuine pace bowling youngsters in this year's IPL has been a revelation. I do like the Australian players and hope they keep coming.

With in a couple of years, you will see each IPL team having three India batting contenders, two fast bowling contenders and atleast one each Indian wrist spinner and finger spinner contender.. That will be around 50+ player talent pool who can be picked for National duty.. I am not saying all will be world beaters, but any good squad out of that pool will be able to beat most second tier teams and compete with top teams like Australia, SA and England. One can probably pick 30+ pool today who can do that..

regarding Australians, I agree with you. Whatever people can say about their arrogance, they do bring great quality and passion to the game. The way Warner was leading SRH, he was genuinely committed to that team, not just for money but for the love of cricket. Look at the way Williamson is handling SRH, he is using all his abilities not just because he is paid well, but because he is competing against the best. It was same with Smith and others.. I see same with many SA and NZ players.. English players are just getting used to IPL and give them enough time and we will find the same commitment. that comes not because of money but because of playing with the best in the game today..
 
I believe you are not comparing IND with USA for sure here.

Coming to NBA example (about collecting every top player) - won't happen; I'll take any bate on that - but yes, now you can obviously keep bullying.

Reasons,

1. The bully that some of you use here is India's large GDP, based on vast population; if I use the same route, only UK & AUS has a combined GDP of 1.5 times. For a hypothetical scenario, IND vs rest of Cricket world, you can use Wiki to sum all GDPs. I am not going to per capita income.

2. Latest bluff I read in un-capped wage of IPL - won't happen. No business model will ever allow expense to go in a model that doesn't ensure ROI. I give an example from soccer & same US sports - some of the richest people in world owns Clubs in UK, Spain, France, Italy and US Franchise and their revenue stream is quite big, trust me ... Still, you'll see every club runs within a financial model, and only people that are spending obnoxiously are 2 types - Arab Sheikh, or Russian Mafia; people whose money has no accountability. Still, there are examples of Monaco & Anzi ..... Mukesh Ambani isn't posedu economist, he didn't make his billions from blogging heroics, his every penny is earned - take out IPL wage cap, only thing'll happen is polarization, gap between top & bottom, total pay-out won't move much drastically.

3. Basketball isn't an appropriate example for cricket. Canadian Neishmith was inventor of basketball, and the game started as an organized sports through NBA. WCs & Olympics were competed by amateur players. In that regard, Basketballs identity is NBA, otherwise I can bet hardly anyone here can tell when is next Basketball WC & where. In that regard, soccer is also similar - first organized national tournament was 1904 Olympics, that too by amateurs; first organized pro National game started in 1930 - but Club soccer started in 1850s/60s, therefore the heritage is divided.

Cricket's core is built for a century in National context - it'll take decades to break that monopoly. And, if you think that BCCI will establish that in this way, good luck.

4. Basketball is a North American sports, as I mentioned earlier. Gradually, it expanded across globe and more and more countries started to participate. Considering the narrow span of Basketball in 1960s/70s and the US economy behind it, only way it could expand was NBA. But, gradually US hegemony in basketball is reducing - there is EURO League now and NBA players, instead of sitting on bench are coming to EURO league. It was 1992 first time USA sent NBA players to Olympics, and now they send NBA players to WC, which indicates the game actually is expanding from NBA to outside as well. Here, you are replacing USA with India and telling that cricket will be gradually closed in - again, good luck, I'll be waiting for that.

5. A game has 2 aspects - skills & economy. If you carefully look at basketball, outside USA, which are the best basketball nations - Greece, Russia, Lithuania, Yugoslavia (it's parts), Argentina, few African nations. Apart from USA & partially Canada, none of the other G8 countries are good in basketball, not even China, South Korea, India .... - that actually tells, there is not enough financial muscle behind Basketball to challenge US status co. In cricket's case, I hear lots of bullying on 2.5 trillion - that works nicely against 300bn in a blog, but think it other way - $2000 vs $50000............

2nd aspect is skills - US is so far ahead in Basketball still, that it's more of an US game rather than global game. They are sending their College teams and winning WC/Olympics - if cricket has to be seen in that way, you have to imagine a situation where Ranji reserves can nil Australia 5-0 down under ........ hope it makes sense.


Anyway, my intention was never to mock India or Indians, and my initial post was totally a hypothetical scenario, which I myself don't think ever'll happen - I want Cricket to grow strong and IND has to lead that, market is there and 3 out of 4 cricket fan is an Indian. I avoid such topics carefully, but, in such cases every time discussion ends in a way that we are kids, need to be taught lessons from posedu experts, which is a bit irritating.

Never mind - I didn't respond your last post, because I don't want to roam in circles. Kerry Packer wanted to bring money in cricket which TCC & CA were blocking from their traditional thoughts - so, he won partially, and later TCCB, CA did raise white flag. Here, someone is trying to monopolize money, so that they can pay Unadkot $1.4mn, blocking every others path - and you are saying, everyone'll sit idle and accept fate.

[MENTION=140515]Gubol123[/MENTION] - end it here buddy, no point discussing hypothetical scenario - collateral damage isn't the best way. We are basically opening doors for pushing cricket to 1980s, when London & Sydney used to call shots.

no man i am not arguing for the sake of arguing here. i am not even arguing so complete on the other side of what you are saying. My point is very simple, it makes absolutely no sense for any head of the of global company to go against their biggest market. that is especially true if that market already has a big bully.. Google and Uber knows what happened to them in China. The only way ICC can win this is by playing nice with BCCI. they should be saying you make money buddy and let us make our money.. Instead they are trying to push BCCI to corner when they are headless and corner a bigger share of the market. Do you think BCCI is going to be headless always.. they will get back on their feet and then it won't be pretty.. will reply to your other points as soon as i send some mails. Friday evenings are fun :)
 
I believe you are not comparing IND with USA for sure here.

Coming to NBA example (about collecting every top player) - won't happen; I'll take any bate on that - but yes, now you can obviously keep bullying.

Reasons,

1. The bully that some of you use here is India's large GDP, based on vast population; if I use the same route, only UK & AUS has a combined GDP of 1.5 times. For a hypothetical scenario, IND vs rest of Cricket world, you can use Wiki to sum all GDPs. I am not going to per capita income.

do you think it is going to stay that way.. Both Aus and Eng are saturated markets who hardly grow. in a fifty years time, India, Pak and BD all will grow and India will be closer to UK and Aus... this is not a short 100 meter sprint, for BCCI this is a marathon. When India does grow that big Aus and UK will be left behind. China was nobody 40 years back..

regarding other points, honesly i don't have much to say apart from the saying that there is no way in hell India will stop playing international circket in our life time.. it might reduce, they might look more inwards for entertainment, but Intl cricket will always be there in our lifetime

Anyway, my intention was never to mock India or Indians, and my initial post was totally a hypothetical scenario, which I myself don't think ever'll happen - I want Cricket to grow strong and IND has to lead that, market is there and 3 out of 4 cricket fan is an Indian. I avoid such topics carefully, but, in such cases every time discussion ends in a way that we are kids, need to be taught lessons from posedu experts, which is a bit irritating.
i don't think i ever doubted your intentions. I too want cricket to grow and any competent organization can lead it. but as i said earlier, i would not be happy if it was lead by someone who is always at war with its biggest market
 
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Although what BCCI was proposing was a better choice for the first time ever but ICC over-ruling them shows a consistent behavior. Not surprising for the neutrals. I understand how it could be shocking for the indian population because they were high due to the internal propoganda kool aid that has made them believe that BCCI can get off with anything (just like India is going to be a superpower by 2020 ).

However, facts point out to something else:

- Dissolvement of Big 3
- ICC playing BCCI's bluff in Champions Trophy after their empty threats
- BCCI's share getting reduced
- ICC making panel on India vs Pakistan series dispute despite BCCI fans constant psy ops telling pakistanis that MOU has no legal standing
- Tournament getting shifted from India to UAE on Pakistan's protest ( although it can be argued that its ACC nevertheless it shows that BCCI are living in a life of delusion)
- and now this

Time to smell the coffee.

BCCI can get away with anything. Or rather, Indian cricket can. However at the moment, BCCI does not have internal control of itself due to the Supreme Court's interventions and the COA.

The moment BCCI has unified power, they can run cricket unilaterally. Till then, the rest can push BCCI around while COA won't let them retaliate.
 
these schedules are really messed up with the t20 wc.

We had one in 2009 and then again in 2010.

Now we are gonna have one in 2020 (aus) and another in 2021 (india).

Just devalues the whole thing
 
these schedules are really messed up with the t20 wc.

We had one in 2009 and then again in 2010.

Now we are gonna have one in 2020 (aus) and another in 2021 (india).

Just devalues the whole thing

Agreed.

T20 WC should be held every 2 or 3 years.

World Cup should be held every 4 years.

1 year difference between World Cups is ridiculous
 
these schedules are really messed up with the t20 wc.

We had one in 2009 and then again in 2010.

Now we are gonna have one in 2020 (aus) and another in 2021 (india).

Just devalues the whole thing

Thing is that we had a world T20 in 2016 and should have had one in 2018. But we didnot.

Now Shashank Manohar when he took over the ICC projected extremely optimistic revenues. Icc is failing to meet those and hence they are slipping in these tournaments to make quick bucks.

Though i expect things to change post 2019 WC.
 
With any luck we will win 2020 and then lose in 2021... Same happened in 2009 I think?
 
With any luck we will win 2020 and then lose in 2021... Same happened in 2009 I think?

Yes 2009 World T20 Pakistan won and 2010 World T20 England won. As another poster said, it devalues the tournament if there is another tournament just ONE year later. Let's hope Pakistan can win at least one, if not both, of them!
 
I don't understand the logic behind this. Might aswell do T20 WC every 2nd year. This will give the associates more exposore
 
And this is why cricket will NEVER progress, unlike football or other sports.

Actually, though ICC is not run as well as it could, it is miles better then FIFA. Really bad football rules (like players getting suspended for a game after 2 yellow cards) persist because FIFA has no interest in improving the game, as it keeps making billions of dollars from the WC even without trying.
 
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