ICC might as well use bowling machines as replacements for the bowlers

[Sherlock]

First off, brilliant chase by England today. Shows why they're the favourites for the WC, and rightly so.

But, I have to add the pitches in England have been nothing short of abysmal for the bowlers. Bowlers from both sides have been tonked and spinners have had no say whatsoever either.

ICC have to do something about the lack of support for bowlers. They've given batsmen the upper-hand from no-balls/free hits - to two new balls.

I'm genuinely numb to the big scores now. They've taken all the fun out of bowling. That's not to say Pakistan as a bowling unit is bad, it is. The problem is Pakistan are just one of the many sides that will get have the same issues in England.

The pitches are so flat and dead I thought we were playing in Pakistan. England bowlers got hammered too and that was kind of a weird feeling of seeing how well Pakistan batted but also realising the pitches are just so flat they had to score big.

Surely some form of change to let bowlers get a sniff of wickets has to be made, surely?

 

[ARK Rafay]

Exactly.

The day 500 will be scored and chased and a batsman will score 300+ runs will be the end of bowlers in Cricket for me.

 

[Mamoon]

Pakistan in particular do not have the attack to cope with these pitches.

We don’t have fast bowlers with pace and power like Starc, Cummins, Rabada, Bumrah, Archer etc.

We don’t have swing bowlers like Boult who can utilize on any movement on offer. Amir can from time to time, but not consistently like Boult.

We don’t have quality spinners like Rashid Khan, Kuldeep, Tahir, Chahal and even Adil Rashid.

Our bowling attack is shaping up to the worst attack of the tournament along with Sri Lanka’s. We are in complete shambles.

350 is still a massive total to chase and it will take a monumental effort even for a team like England to do it against superior attacks.

 

[emranabbas]

It's our fault our whole cricket set up is based on a 90's setup other teams are way ahead of us

 

[IAJ]

Pakistan in particular do not have the attack to cope with these pitches.

We don’t have fast bowlers with pace and power like Starc, Cummins, Rabada, Bumrah, Archer etc.

We don’t have swing bowlers like Boult who can utilize on any movement on offer. Amir can from time to time, but not consistently like Boult.

We don’t have quality spinners like Rashid Khan, Kuldeep, Tahir, Chahal and even Adil Rashid.

Our bowling attack is shaping up to the worst attack of the tournament along with Sri Lanka’s. We are in complete shambles.

350 is still a massive total to chase and it will take a monumental effort even for a team like England to do it against superior attacks.

You are underestimating SL.

 

[Sherlock]

Pakistan in particular do not have the attack to cope with these pitches.

We don’t have fast bowlers with pace and power like Starc, Cummins, Rabada, Bumrah, Archer etc.

We don’t have swing bowlers like Boult who can utilize on any movement on offer. Amir can from time to time, but not consistently like Boult.

We don’t have quality spinners like Rashid Khan, Kuldeep, Tahir, Chahal and even Adil Rashid.

Our bowling attack is shaping up to the worst attack of the tournament along with Sri Lanka’s. We are in complete shambles.

350 is still a massive total to chase and it will take a monumental effort even for a team like England to do it against superior attacks.

Agreed, but up to a point.

Only disagree with SL being one of the worst attacks, they're actually a very good bowling unit and bowl as a team with a plan. We don't have a good unit and don't bowl to any plan, be it pre-planning or in-game tactics.

 

[Mamoon]

You are underestimating SL.

Agreed, but up to a point.

Only disagree with SL being one of the worst attacks, they're actually a very good bowling unit and bowl as a team with a plan. We don't have a good unit and don't bowl to any plan, be it pre-planning or in-game tactics.

Truth be told, I am not even aware of their bowling attack. Probably a bunch of de Silvas, Peraras and some other gimmicky spinners whose novelty will wear off very soon. Plus of course Malinga and Lakmal.

They have been getting smashed in ODIs by everyone including us, so surely we are at least half better than them.

 

[the SHA]

ICC have to do something about the lack of support for bowlers. They've given batsmen the upper-hand from no-balls/free hits - to two new balls.

I'm genuinely numb to the big scores now. They've taken all the fun out of bowling.

Spot on. This is like watching Hong Kong sixes. I'm not looking forward to the WC if these are the pitches on offer.

 

[The Viper]

Pakistan in particular do not have the attack to cope with these pitches.

We don’t have fast bowlers with pace and power like Starc, Cummins, Rabada, Bumrah, Archer etc.

We don’t have swing bowlers like Boult who can utilize on any movement on offer. Amir can from time to time, but not consistently like Boult.

We don’t have quality spinners like Rashid Khan, Kuldeep, Tahir, Chahal and even Adil Rashid.

Our bowling attack is shaping up to the worst attack of the tournament along with Sri Lanka’s. We are in complete shambles.

350 is still a massive total to chase and it will take a monumental effort even for a team like England to do it against superior attacks.

This is the main problem. On these pitches to succeed, you need quality spinners or express pacers.

Pakistan does not have either.

 

[Azrim_91]

The best we can do with a bowling line up is to pick Amir.

Amir
Hasan
Junaid/Shaheen
Faheem/Shadab
Malik/hafeez/Imad

Of if you want another fast bowler it'll have to be at the extent of one of the batsmen

 

[Sherlock]

Amir hasn't swung the ball since the Asia Cup in Bangladesh, on swinging conditions. He's lost his hunger and a will to work on his issues.

Hasan hasn't been the same bowler since his injury.

Junaid is bang average. His lack of pace has driven his bowling to mediocrity.

Shaheen is far too green to be given the pressure of opening our bowling. The lack of leaders around the side won't help him.

Faheem is utterly rubbish. Man posts IG/Tweets as if he's already made it big. He's an awful bowler, and his supposed strong suit, his batting, has been nothing short of embarrassing. Hasan Ali has outperformed him overall.

Shadab will help our bowling but I don't expect him to be 100% and it may well take mid-tournament for him to be close to 100% but nonetheless he'll easily replace Faheem.

Imad has shown his lack of bowling prowess. His lack of variety only work in poor batting conditions but in England his lack of orthodox spin or another variation will be his downfall.

Malik's swansong, and for me he'll be lucky to play but Arthur seems to like his experience but that's all that is with Malik. He doesn't bowl and his batting only seem to work when he's bashing lower sides.

Hafeez may well be the one that they'd choose over Imad/Malik. If he can give us some control with his bowling he can be the 5/6th bowler. His batting will only click if he's told to play like he did in the latter stages of the CT and not how he's batted for years before it.

They could've easily included Rauf/Musa as the pace spearheads and included Umer Khan as a surprise package for the batsmen in the WC.

We're once again playing catch up and we go by the whim of the management and selectors and not cease the moment and include a few surprises.

 

[Hasan123]

Scores of this size are hardly chased . Apparently it's the 5th highest chased in ODIs. So teams are defending high totals , we need to stop blaming pitches and start having a look at our so called world class bowling attack. England defended 370 in the 2nd game and everyone tells me their attack is rubbish compared to ours .

Other top teams would have tested England more than our bowling line up did.

 

[MMHS]

Apart from poor bowling, PAK dropped quite a few catches and at least two of those were at critical moment. England plays in 6th gear from start and then may way to counter them is getting them out - they don’t follow the rule of “making a life count”; after being dropped, very next ball each of them will repeat the same shot if ball is there.

I read several reasons here, but I think fundamental problem is just two - one completely self created and other one partially forced upon.

First problem, for which Ul Haq & his gang should be criminally charged and convicted - lack of genuine spinner in the squad. Since Ajmal’s demise PAK haven’t tried a single classical spinner, apart from Yasir - this is punishable crime. PAK (Asian) cricket can go to associate level, but I’ll never believe that in Asia, we don’t have genuine spinners who can turn, flight & loop. I won’t go to names, but it’s reality that Imad, Shadab, Nawaz & Yasir are only available spinners for 3.5 years, then PCB should stop wasting money on domestic cricket and make PSL 24 teams year long event.

Second problem is new ball skill. This is at the rock bottom level, since mid 60s. Few days back one poster refuted on this point, but it’s true that PAK pacers are hopeless in first power play. Part of the reason is playing “home games” on those UAE mud bed, which is out of PCB’s hand (arguably - it was possible to make UK &/or BD as alternate home, not any more), but main reason is domestic FC wickets where you don’t need new ball skills, rather darting at 125K on length does the job.

These days have ODI’s are played on belters where one can hardly seem the machine stitched Kookaburra; so it has to be in air (be movement or pace), complemented by bowling intelligence - playing on those QeA wickets hardly demands either skill, pacers like Aizaz Cheema & Saad Altaf at this age is absolutely killing it there against batsmen, whose intelligence level is not up to the mark.

Third reason is something we call nemesis- you do something wrongs, one day it’ll hunt back. PAK has over done with “reverse swing”, it’s quite natural that some day it’ll hunt back and we can see that now. Every PAK pacer uses new ball like a wet soap ball - bowls relatively slower, bowls at safe line (wise out side off), bowls at negative length (short of swinging length) - each of them desperately wait for the new ball (s) to loose shine, so that they get a better grip. Even today, Hasan & Shaheen we’re completely different bowler after 25 overs and had Captain courageous posted a slip, Stokes would have been gone in single digit.

Solution is tough and it won’t happen over night, but not impossible - ingredients are still there, only needs a good cook & a great kitchen. At current moods operandi, it’s heading to a direction which I can’t prove now, so won’t wrote here (in 4/5 years time we’ll see that, if not earlier)

 

[Gilly]

Pakistan cricket focuses on the wrong things.

Arthur will be the scapegoat nothing will change ,rinse, repeat, same thing 2024.

 

[Ramsay]

You need wrist/leg spinners on these belters. Pakistan had none yesterday. And, more over, what’s up with Hasan Ali, he is no way near his best for a long time now.

 

[iniqbal223]

Many viewpoints emerge from these 2 ODIs:

1) Our bowling attack is below average : We have a spearhead who made debut 8 months ago. Hassan, Junaid, Imad , Shaheen these are all too young and inexperienced to have plan B of their own. So, when bowling attack lacks leader then your bowling coach should be leading it from the outside. However, that was no where to be seen. Main problem lies with the bowling plan given to them by Azhar Mahmood or even during the English batting no such alternative plans came from him. No bowler tried pace variations, no bowler tried yorkers, wide yorkers, etc.. Don't they even see or learn what was working for English bowling.

Any bowling could have got thrashing in these grounds. But the thing is , our bowlers did not try anything. They kept on bowling leg side short bowls, and getting slammed..

2) Faheem Ashraf : I think we have seen enough of him. No player in cricket history can get this many chances as he is getting. Even Akmals might have produced one innings by then. Bowling, Batting, Fielding, nothing is working for him. Better to play a extra bowler except Yasir. He might just bat better than him.

3) Sarfaraz : Cant bat long enough, cant keep unless its coming straight to the gloves. Pathetic fitness level. And we are setting standards of the fitness in the team, when captain himself is lazy enough to shed some weight. In today's game he had chances where he could have dived to take those half chances, but he did not even tried. In addition , pathetic captaincy: Just waiting there to see his bowlers getting tonked.

4) Imad Wasim : Using every time at the wrong places. Why you need to bowl him before 10 overs. And he is coming too late in batting. He is not a batsman who can just come and start hitting. Switch his position with Asif's.

5) Abid Ali : If these will be conditions for the world cup. It make sense to play Abid Ali also. May be rest Fakhar Zaman. Try Abid for next two games.If inzi fears that what if Abid makes his case after performing well, then Inzi should resign. He is Pak team selector not Imam selector. This WC is crazy long. There will always be the case that some one is unfit or injured. Places will open up. Why they are wasting opportunity by not playing him.

6) Shaheen is not your answer , Mickey. Find some one else. And Amir is not your answer either.

 

[gibsyhesperis]

The OP has made a fantastic point.
Pakistan are a poor batting side — the fact they are consistently scoring big totals (albeit still losing) shows that the wickets are favouring the ball too much. It has to be a contest.
The English attack is reasonable yet was tanked about
1) Stop the ball change after 30 overs — stops reverse swing and allows a hard ball for batters all through the innings
2) Leave some grass on the pitches in England
Otherwise, let’s all go and watch baseball....

 

[Bhaijaan]

ICC takes care of pitches in the world cups. They will indeed have a say in the type of pitches that will be laid out for world cup games.

Bilateral matches are no concern of ICC. England have taken out Pakistan's skill based bowling attack out of the equation with these pitches. Its a clever move which will serve them well in the bilateral series.

In world cups it is not sure if we will see similar pitches across all games.

 

[Bilal Ahmad15]

lol, just yesterday my friend was also saying that bowlers should just be replaced with bowling machienes

 

[the Great Khan]

Pitches are a disgrace..sorry but if our batting can make nearly 800 runs in two matches then the pitches are utter bakwaas..Englands bowlers were tonked to all parts..adil rashid got hit out of the attack the other day and willey and co were no threat at all..even woakes looked ordinary and he normally moves the ball at least off the seam..

the only team who I see bowling well on these phattas is India..they are used to it and understand the conditions..

The only saving grace I see is that the ICC will make the pitches and they will wear and tear over the course of the tournament..but then our batting will probably flunk so there you go..

 

[Sherlock]

Pitches are a disgrace..sorry but if our batting can make nearly 800 runs in two matches then the pitches are utter bakwaas..Englands bowlers were tonked to all parts..adil rashid got hit out of the attack the other day and willey and co were no threat at all..even woakes looked ordinary and he normally moves the ball at least off the seam..

the only team who I see bowling well on these phattas is India..they are used to it and understand the conditions..

The only saving grace I see is that the ICC will make the pitches and they will wear and tear over the course of the tournament..but then our batting will probably flunk so there you go..

Those matches last year in England between the two were very good and was pretty equal in relation to bat and ball.

But I think these pitches have been flattened out for some reason and will not help anyone if they continue doing what they're doing.

 

[Manager101]

Pakistan in particular do not have the attack to cope with these pitches.

We don’t have fast bowlers with pace and power like Starc, Cummins, Rabada, Bumrah, Archer etc.

We don’t have swing bowlers like Boult who can utilize on any movement on offer. Amir can from time to time, but not consistently like Boult.

We don’t have quality spinners like Rashid Khan, Kuldeep, Tahir, Chahal and even Adil Rashid.

Our bowling attack is shaping up to the worst attack of the tournament along with Sri Lanka’s. We are in complete shambles.

350 is still a massive total to chase and it will take a monumental effort even for a team like England to do it against superior attacks.

Sri Lanka have some intelligent spinners, they might surprise some non-asian teams in WC.

 

[IMMY69]

After giving this some thought, I'm glad we've had these high scoring matches.
Our bowlers have gained valuable experience bowling on these decks. Also, Shadab, if fully fit, (and Amir but to a lesser extent) will definitely strengthen our bowling.

However, the one thing that continues to let us down is the fielding. Catches turn matches and the drops have been absolutely soul destroying. We will not win games on these tracks unless we can take our catches. Forget the simple ones, which we drop too, but we even need to take the half chances.

Our out fielding is also slow. The players just don't look like they have the legs to chase down quickly.
Asif Ali and Suhail are extremely slow and the the bad fielding seems to be contagious. Even Babar dropped a sitter yesterday. All the fumbling give the batsmen extra runs.

This aspect has to improve. At the moment our team in the field looks no better then the aging squad that played the 2003 World Cup...