"If Mohammad Amir can get away with it then why can't I?" : Mohammad Wasim

[hhhhdmt]

Not more tricky then the mess the likes of wasim akram ended up in ( match fixing) yet got only 5000 dollars fine by justice qayyoum who said that had he banned wasim akram then world cricket would have lost a world class player !!! Now that was a very wrong statement by justice qayyoum who did'nt punish wasim appropriately. Atleast amir admitted his mistake and has to serve a 5 year ban which is harsh enough as a 2 year ban would have been fine. The likes of gibbs and shane warne got second chances after punishments ( not as harsh as amir) so what's all this stupid fuss about amir should not be allowed a second chances ????

Honestly some ppers here are behaving weird and inappropriately. Totally uncalled for !

NO A 2 YEAR OLD BAN WOULD not have been fine. The minimum ban is 5 years, and he got the minimum

Gibbs did not actually go through with the fixing. I have seen no evidence that Warne ever intentionally bowled a no ball. The only people who are behaving inappropriately are Amir fans. They actually think the cheat was punished harshly. He is lucky he didn't get 8 years. He truly deserved it.

 

[Savak]

All those advocating for a lifetime ban on amir will be the first ones to beg for mercy, forgiveness and a second chance if they were in his shoes. I have seen enough in life and observed enough hypocrisy in people to not to take this holier than thou Brigade seriously.

Not only but all these guys like asif and butt are legally allowed to play cricket again once their bans are finished. Whether their form and fitness allows it is a different matter. But realistically the only ones who look most likely to come back from the Trio is Amir.

 

[hhhhdmt]

This has nothing to do with a so alled holier than thou attitude. That is a rubbish excuse by Amir fan.

(Many) Amir fans were the same people who were claiming that Amir was innocent and that all of this is a conspiracy. Amir himself engaged in all of this, and seemed to have no remorse whatsoever for a year. Clearly many Amir fans are not bright.

Why is it so hard for Amir fans to understand that we will be the only major cricketing nation with a convicted spot fixer in our team? that everytime Amir bowls a no ball or a wide it will be viewed with suspicion? that Amir's presence will cause problems for the entire team?

 

[W63L35]

In context of a game, the most serious crimes apart from murder, sexual harassment, intentionally and seriously hurting a player is cheating. Even dacoity is a less serious offense in this context. Because a cheater ruins the whole point of the game.

That is just you opinion and I respect that. But one thing you unintentionally stressed upon is that at the end of the day, it is “just a game” [meanings of simple entertainment] for fans like us.

Of course for the players, as I mentioned in my post above, it is just a profession/job. Their own attitudes and all the controversies (other than fixing) that came out simply prove that.

Now the rest of your post is mostly about remorse, forgiveness and ethical competency.

I had a few other points also, but I don’t see you addressing them. I was hoping you would address my points one by one. Specially the one … involving the country honor and pride into the game of cricket.

Here is my take on it.
I believe that Aamir is neither remorseful nor is ethically competent - for the following reasons.

You believe? Yes, you do have some good questions below but that is huge statement to make based on some assumptions and a lot of unknowns.

1) He never told us the complete story. If he has, link me to the complete story. He hasn't told us all he knows. He is merely stating that he is sorry for what he did - but he hasn't even told us the full details. I will discuss more about this in point 2

We do you think we (the fans) have any right to know the whole story - if there is any?

As you had mentioned in your post above that “Playing for BCCI or PCB or SLC is a privilege and not a right [there Aamir should not come back to the team]”…. so what right (or privilege) do we have to know the details?

When you reply to this point, please keep in mind the employee-employer relationship between Aamir and PCB and not forgetting that we are mere spectators – even in literal sense.

Aamir, Asif Butt affair was NOTHING more than juicy dinner table conversation for the most of the fans. Had Aamir provided the details to the media/fans, it would have done nothing except proved more juicy stuff so we could talk for hours.

Only police, ICC, PCB and other authorities deserve those details…. and not us.

2) Since he hasn't told us the complete story, there is more to his story than is known to the non-criminal world. Thus, the criminals will have access to information that we don't. Thus, even if he is truly remorseful - unless he comes completely clean - he may be forced into crime again.

Three huge assumptions that I see in #2 are:

a) We are assuming that there is, in fact, more to the story.
b) We are assuming that he has given no details to PCB or ICC.
c) We are assuming that he was not trapped by the operation conducted by NOTW via Mazhar Majeed.
d) We are assuming that he was involved with underworld fixing mafia and NOTW was not an isolated incident.


Why he has to "come tell the whole story to be remorseful" for us to believe " he will not repeat the mistake"? I mean, I do not see the connection between "coming clean" and "forced to doing crime".

3) Is there a smallest bit of evidence that he would have come clean in the event that he was not caught?

If I understand your point correctly then shouldn't this apply to all players on the team who have been approached by the bookies and refused over the years…… or any player who was approached and did agree to fixing. Why all the players be thrown out of the team because they never told us that they were approached …. and they refused or caved in? Unless you are assuming that Aamir, Asif and Butt were the only players who were approached and fixed matches. Are you?

4) Why did he keep denying his role and claimed conspiracy during the start of the investigation

As I mentioned in my earlier post that in the beginning, I am sure he said what he was asked to say by his legal team.

While he has expressed remorse for his actions regarding spot-fixing; has he expressed remorse for not admitting the truth and attempting to misguide the country?

I’ll take this misguidance 1000 time over than the people who are raping the country with their actions – first and foremost people who take bribes, the corrupt politicians and the corrupt government employees!

Again why the big deal about the country?

In this age when muslims, and Pakistanis are lead to believe that the whole world is conspiring against us [I am an atheist, but I am sympathetic towards muslims and consider myself half-a-muslim because my mom is a practicing muslim and I know that Islam isn't what the western world projects it to be.]; so in such an age - isn't claiming conspiracy a sin in itself. Where has he expressed remorse for that?

Had he expressed remorse for “claiming conspiracy”, would you have been OK with his come back? Why or why not?

But then again, wasn't NOTW operation a conspiracy?

5) This is an important question, that you alone know the answer to. If this wasn't Muhammad Amir, but say Sohail Tanvir that we are talking about - will you still back him to play. Honest to your conscience?

Absolutely! I would have welcomed Sohail (or any player) back; given….
a) Player has admitted his mistake/crime.
b) Player has been punished according to the laws of the country.
c) On his return, his selection is based 300% on merit.

Class of a player has nothing to do with it. His selection is a different matter altogether which I hope will be fair and solely based on the form and ability at that time.

Plus .... I don’t believe in death sentence for stealing.

Now can I ask you this. What if Aamir was your brother or son? What if you were in his place? Would your stance be the same?

What about all the Amir supporters? Also, if you had players of the calibre of Imran Khan, Shoaib Akhtar, Younis and Akram playing RIGHT now, will you still want Amir to be back?

I am not Aamir supporter. I am a cricket fan. I kept passionately following cricket even after him. If this thread was about Asif or Salman Butt, I would have been same points. Here is what I said, in post # 75 above.

Are we assuming that Aamir will be automatically selected when he comes back? After staying out of the game for 5 years, it would be miracle if he comes back as the same (let alone better) bowler.

Also, are we assuming that the selection will not be based on merit? So, if Aamir does get selected on merit - just like H Gibbs was, then I don't understand the issue here?

6) Also evaluate Amir's crime in the angle that he match-fixing leads to criminal syndicates acquiring financial benefits.

You are right but….. I hate to repeat myself, that are we 100% sure that Aamir had proven links with match-fixing mafia…. and not just trapped by NOTW?

If anything, players (e.g. Wasim Akram) reported in Justice Qayyum’s report HAD links with match-fixing mafia. Did they ever come clean?

Most importantly will Amir be able to answer any of these questions?

Why does Aamir owe us anything; let alone an explanations or answers? What right or privileges do we have as fans (spectators) to know anything?

 

[W63L35]

To summarize, some of the question I have asked in my previous posts in this. Anybody is welcome to answer them one-by-one.

1) Why do we (people/fans) drag country honor and pride into the game of cricket?

2) If you do feel country honor and pride are so tightly bonded with the cricket team, then people of which country's honor is at stake and country should feel ashamed in case Imran Tahir is caught fixing matches – South Africa or Pakistan?

3) If you do feel country honor and pride are so tightly bonded with the cricket team, then how would have felt if Azhar Mahmood played for England?

4) If you do feel country honor and pride are so tightly bonded with the cricket team, then why players and PCB administrators totally destroy and have no respect for that bond by indulging into all sort of actions such as; in-fighting, bickering, dirty politics, back stabbing, back biting, nepotism, unfair selections by the captains, corruption and incompetency by PCB? Why do we feel bowling a few no-balls impacts our country’s honor more than all the ills [which impact the team much more] I listed?

5) Why it is OK to associate the “country honor” with the cricket team but it is not OK to apply “2nd chance”, “forgiveness”, “repentance”, “learning from your mistake” and “already severely punished” factors to Aamir’s situation?

6) Do you agree that cricket is a profession and the player-PCB relationship is just an employer-employee relationship? Why or why not?

7) In all practicality PCB suffered the most by Aamir’s actions – with lawyers, courts, ICC, etc. If in an employer-employee relationship, if PCB is willing to rehire Aamir, then what right do we have to object?

8) If Aamir was your son, brother or father, would you have still asked for a permanent ban after being severely punished? If you picked about 100 people at random, how many people do the same? What if you were in Aamir's shoes?

9) Why does Aamir owe an explanation or a detailed story to us – more than what he has already told us? What right or privilege do we have here?

10) What do you feel about Wasim Akram’s (and others in JQ’s report) proven link with match-fixing mafia and them not coming clean?

 

[Reverselap]

9) Why does Aamir owe an explanation or a detailed story to us – more than what he has already told us? What right or privilege do we have here?

We bought tickets

 

[W63L35]

9) Why does Aamir owe an explanation or a detailed story to us – more than what he has already told us? What right or privilege do we have here?

We bought tickets

We knew (and still know) that match-fixing is/was being done. We bought the tickets knowingly. Our choice. Nobody forced us to buy the tickets.

Speaking of demanding explanation.... how many explanations do demand ..... and we get for all the unfair selections [Malik, Farhat, Kamran Akmal, and many more]? IMO those unfair selections impact our team more than match-fixing? We don't agree with selections and yet buy the tickets.

I can give many incidents where PCB and players totally destroyed the integrity of the team and game but we never demanded the explanation and none was given.

Ijaz Butt banned 8 players after Aus/NZ tours. Why? Did he give any explanation?

 

[Sidilicious]

NO A 2 YEAR OLD BAN WOULD not have been fine. The minimum ban is 5 years, and he got the minimum

Gibbs did not actually go through with the fixing. I have seen no evidence that Warne ever intentionally bowled a no ball. The only people who are behaving inappropriately are Amir fans. They actually think the cheat was punished harshly. He is lucky he didn't get 8 years. He truly deserved it.

Gibbs did not go through with the fixing.

Warne did not fix any games. He passed some information about the pitch etc for which he was reprimanded.

 

[hhhhdmt]

sorry but Amir does owe a full explanation. I have a feeling this guy was involved in more than just a couple of no balls.

 

[Savak]

the only people making excuses are Amir fanboys. Gibbs DID NOT FIX. Warne was never proven to have fixed. This is not but simple facts that Amir fans cannot understand.

How do you know that gibbs and Warne did not fix? Just because the icc said so? What is your problem against Amir returning when the icc has no issues?

Are you that naive that gibbs took money but did not agree to go through with the fixing or that it was just one isolated incident?

 

[hhhhdmt]

How do you know that Gibbs and Warne did fix? I have never seen the slightest of evidence of Warne ever fixing anything. Talking to a bookie may be wrong, but its a completely different story than actually fixing. The burden of proof is upon those who are claming that Warne and Gibbs fixed, not me.

I have a problem with Amir returning because it is simply harmful to the team:

1- We will be the ONLY major team with a convicted spot fixer in our team

2- Any no ball and wide bowled by Amir will be viewed suspiciously and will cause problems for the whole team with further allegations of spot fixing

3- the crowds will give him a tough time (and rightfully so) and that may negatively effect the entire team

 

[randomone]

Answers to W65L35's questions

1) Why do we (people/fans) drag country honor and pride into the game of cricket?

Because, the result always reads Pakistan beats Sri Lanka or India beats Australia. Personally I hate BCCI. I think they are a bunch of thugs. I hate N Srinivasan. Competition Commission of India has slapped a huge fine for cartelisation by cement industries. So no sane Indian will love N Srinivasan. I hate BCCI FAR more than you do. If I have to actually choose a board to like - I think I will chose Australia. But the matches don't read BCCI vs PCB. They wear the Indian flags and Pakistani flags respectively. Indian and Pakistani anthems are what they sing if at all. Thus, they are ambassadors of the country, whether or not you want it.

Also, I hate it when I tune in to the test match and someone tells me - why do you waste time, its all probably fixed anyway. My dad always says that when I watch WWE matches, but I nod and agree with him - and tell him that I still like to watch the staged matches. Perhaps, I don't want the same thing to happen to cricket?

2) If you do feel country honor and pride are so tightly bonded with the cricket team, then people of which country's honor is at stake and country should feel ashamed in case Imran Tahir is caught fixing matches – South Africa or Pakistan?

If Imran Tahir fixes/or is caught fixing, he is disgracing the South African side - of course. But it will be even more and much more of a disgrace if they let him play after he is caught.

3) If you do feel country honor and pride are so tightly bonded with the cricket team, then how would have felt if Azhar Mahmood played for England?

I don't think you get the point. Azhar Mahmood can play or could have played for England, I don't care. Virat Kohli can play for Pakistan, I don't care. [ I will be sad that team India lost a good player, but I wouldn't really call Kohli a betrayer]. But if Dale Steyn played for India - after adopting Indian citizenship, and he is caught fixing - I WILL care. I wouldn't want Dale Steyn to play for India if he is a fixer, even though he is the best fast bowler in the world. Changing citizenship is a PERSONAL right of every human. But I don't want ex-fixers playing the game at all, even if they don't represent my country.

4) If you do feel country honor and pride are so tightly bonded with the cricket team, then why players and PCB administrators totally destroy and have no respect for that bond by indulging into all sort of actions such as; in-fighting, bickering, dirty politics, back stabbing, back biting, nepotism, unfair selections by the captains, corruption and incompetency by PCB? Why do we feel bowling a few no-balls impacts our country’s honor more than all the ills [which impact the team much more] I listed?

First thing - you are right when you say that PCB and BCCI should be more responsible boards that are answerable to the people. I feel that the institutions must be made more democratic. Bickering and In-fighting and all must also stop.

Secondly, this wasn't just about bowling a few no-balls. The ability to coax a few no-balls is a way to test if I can bend results. The way bookie system works is this - before I place MASSIVE bets on a team [in terms of win or loss] I would want to test the team. If a captain [Salman Butt] has a few team-mates who will go along with the plan to bowl a few no-balls at SPECIFIC teams - its a signal that the players are amenable to corruption. The next stage is to fix the game and reap profits. So "bowling a few no-balls" isn't a minor offence.

Thirdly, while infighting, back-biting, nepotism are all extremely disgraceful behaviours, fixing totally eliminates the game from the game. Thus a player fixing is a greater offence against the game than all those other disgraceful behaviours.

5) Why it is OK to associate the “country honor” with the cricket team but it is not OK to apply “2nd chance”, “forgiveness”, “repentance”, “learning from your mistake” and “already severely punished” factors to Aamir’s situation?

Just like a person is innocent until proven guilty; most unbiased people will not admit a repentance until it is sincere. Amir is caught. He is check-mated. What is he supposed to do now? Is he supposed to say "I am proud of what I did"? Is he supposed to say "Given a chance I will fix again and use that money to have fun again"? Of course he will repent. Given Salman Butt and Asif a chance to "repent" even they will. Even a serial killer will "verbally repent". How has he demonstrated true repentance? A start would be coming entirely clean, telling us how it started - who are were associated etc. Tell us why he became corrupt. Was it extenuating circumstances? Was it greed?

6) Do you agree that cricket is a profession and the player-PCB relationship is just an employer-employee relationship? Why or why not?

It will be an employer-employee relationship if the scorecard read PCB vs BCCI. Why does this site read Pakpassion rather than PCB-passion? If PCB is a mere club, why are you proud of W65-L35? Are you proud of the club that is PCB? Surely, you cannot be. It is a very bad club, just like BCCI is. It is a nepotistic corrupt imbecile hell. Why do the players keep using the term "represent the country at the highest level".

In this case, will Amir be able to say this "I did not betray the country because I wasn't representing them. I am a mere employee of PCB and I failed my job. I was punished, and now if my employer wants me - I am willing to play. The general public have no right to opinion." Can he say that? If he does, will people still ask that he be allowed to play?

7) In all practicality PCB suffered the most by Aamir’s actions – with lawyers, courts, ICC, etc. If in an employer-employee relationship, if PCB is willing to rehire Aamir, then what right do we have to object?

So if PCB decides that only children and direct relatives of PCB management will be considered to play the game - then too there will be no right to object. Surely every sports player and fan will very nobly agree with the boards decision and the right to make it, correct?

8) If Aamir was your son, brother or father, would you have still asked for a permanent ban after being severely punished? If you picked about 100 people at random, how many people do the same? What if you were in Aamir's shoes?

I will try and find out why my son, brother or father chose the path of corruption. I will request that they come clean with everything. I will ask them to apologise for misleading the nation by alleging conspiracy [against the country, religion whatever]. I will say that I will not support their decision to play the game again - because its neither healthy for the game, nor healthy for themselves. If they want to take up an alternate profession, I will fully support their decision and I will give them every assistance they need to establish themselves.

I don't care about what 100 other people would do the same. People applying extremely different standards to their kith and kin vs general public - its called familism. Familism is considered the curse of the subcontinent. Why? Because, the moment you become a civil servant or a politician, you want to extend as many favours to your kith and kin; at the cost of hurting the general public. I hate familism. Thus, I don't care about what 100 other people would have done - but I am not naive to think that a good percentage will apply double standards.

About Amir's shoes, no I would have never fixed. Wait - maybe I would have, if I had extenuating circumstances - kid/bro dying from a disease? Abject poverty?, in which case I would explain the circumstance to the people and begged forgiveness. I would never say - "I was not 18 yet, so I was stupid, and I would have suddenly become intelligent in six months" and I would never demand to be forgiven without coming clean and explaining the circumstances. And I will probably never play the game again.

9) Why does Aamir owe an explanation or a detailed story to us – more than what he has already told us? What right or privilege do we have here?

He is asking for the public of Pakistan, and fans of cricket to forgive him for his past. People want to forgive him [right?]. How can one forgive without one coming clean? Again - let him say this "I don't give a damn about fans. I don't owe you anything. I only owe apologies to PCB and if they want to take me - no fan has the right to interject". Let him say that, and then maybe - I may change my thinking. Clearly, the fans want him to play while representing Pakistan - BECAUSE they think he can win them something. The moment he says he is not playing for Pakistan and only for PCB, and he states without any word-play that the public doesn't deserve anything - I am sure most of the public won't support his comeback anyway.

10) What do you feel about Wasim Akram’s (and others in JQ’s report) proven link with match-fixing mafia and them not coming clean?

Too bad, so sad. But they are not playing now, are they? Allow Amir to play, and the future fixers will cite him on being caught and want to play too.

 

[James]

The videos he has made since coming clean and the message this will have on other young tear aways is essential in keeping cricket clean and cricket needs a positive role model like mohammed amir who was influenced at a vulnerable age by a decieving captain but served his time and came good in the end.
Really is fairytale stuff if he can beat the odds in his comeback

Very good post.

My personal opinion is that Amir's sentence should not be reduced. He should see out the term in order to set the right example. But he also certainly deserves a second chance. If he has the form and attitude to play for Pakistan once again, then he should be re-selected.

 

[Saj]

Many thanks once again to Wasim for his thoughts on this topic which of course generates a lot of intense debate.

I think there's still quite a divide on Pakistani fans opinions on whether Mohammad Amir should be allowed to play for Pakistan again.

 

[Anuj25]

IMO it would be very hard for him to play for long. His every action would be scrutinized. Public would not think twice to label him a cheat at every catch dropped or other such stuff. And add the new media analyst sitting on your channels. All this things are bound to definitely affect him psychologically. He was a great talent but I feel we have already seen the best of him and I hope i am proved wrong in the near future. Amen

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[Madplayer]

i think m. Wasim is the best cricket analyst in Pakistan by some distance. Heard him a few times and the guy speaks sense unlike others.

 

[Kianig89]

i think m. Wasim is the best cricket analyst in Pakistan by some distance. Heard him a few times and the guy speaks sense unlike others.

Ya he is very good so far

 

[Savak]

A simple question to Wasim would have been if it was his son, brother or anyone else who was related to him in Amir's shoes right now, would he have had the same opinion of no forgiveness, no second chances?

With all respect to Wasim, granted he was treated very unfairly by the captains, selectors but i know full well how bitter we as a nation can be and the extent to which we will engage in leg pulling because lets face it people generally do not handle their own frustrations well at all.

 

[W63L35]

"If Mohammad Amir can get away with it then why can't I?" : Mohammad Wasim

I don't what is bigger crime..... spot-fixing (and then getting banned and jailed for it) ....
or....
Destroying the cricket team by selecting players like Malik and Kamran.

 

[MenInG]

The debate on Mohammad Amir will not end!

 

[AlphaFighter]

Just reviewed this thread. A clear divide. My personal take is that it is all history now. Coming September, it will be a new chapter for him. I am more interested as to what the ICC and the PCB is planning for the likes of Salman Butt and Mohd Asif. Butt has been trying very hard to get some relief from the PCB and ICC but they in turn want more sincerity from him. Asif has completely dissapeared as if he is not interested in making a comeback at all.

 

[thair9999]

Well, with all due respect, I disagree. In my opinion, Aamir did not get away with it, he was punished severely.

Mohammad Wasim = Jesus "never made any mistake"

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Just reviewed this thread. A clear divide. My personal take is that it is all history now. Coming September, it will be a new chapter for him. I am more interested as to what the ICC and the PCB is planning for the likes of Salman Butt and Mohd Asif. Butt has been trying very hard to get some relief from the PCB and ICC but they in turn want more sincerity from him. Asif has completely dissapeared as if he is not interested in making a comeback at all.

Asif has shown his interest of making a comeback in couple of tv program's recently . He is intentionally staying away from the media . He has also met Pcb officials . Asif's chances of making international comeback are 50% more than Salman Butt due to certain reasons .

Regarding Asif & Butt one thing is not clear whether they need to do certain number of education sessions with current players of pakistan domestic cricket or not ? Some say they have to participate in certain number of seminars and councilling sessions on staying away from corrupt practices etc . While some like [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] especially believe that from September 2015 they will be back to domestic cricket and also int cricket doors will open as well .

I hope that if these sessions are required by ICC before making domestic comeback than PCB should arrange all before the FC season begins .

Personally I want to see Asif and Amir pairing in both Odi and test cricket again .

 

[proud_pakistani]

I have had enough of all these Amir threads. He got caught and has done time. Do we need to keep discussing this again and again? Some people here talk as if Amir was let off really easily, and nothing happened to him. Well he went to juvenile in UK and also got banned for 5 years. 5 years which could well have made him the greatest left handed paceman to have played the game along side Wasim. So let us not think he did not lose anything. The important thing is he learns from his mistake and comes back a stronger individual.

 

[Cricketrenew]

Amir has done his time, if another youngster who is not good enough then Amir deserves to play.

There seems to be lots of righteousness going on, you would think there was not much corruption or nepotism around especially in Pakistan. Over the last decade have players just been selected on ability and potential?

In a perfect world maybe I too would think an eighteen, should be made to pay for his crime of following senior role models including the captain and succumbing to temptation. In a world were societies are not 100% based on fairness, I think to vilify Amir is a crime itself. He deserves another chance.

Regarding M Wasim he wasn't given a proper chance but when he did play his figures were not that special to say he was the best available to be selected.

 

[Jin Chacha]

This article has come 5 years too late. If Aamir was to be banned for life, it had to happen when he was charged. He was charged for 5 years, he served his term and that is the end of the story. What legal justification can anyone give for not allowing him to play now that his ban is expired(assuming he performs at the domestic level and is selected on merit)? Morally or ethically there maybe an argument but then who draws the line about these standards of morality? If the line had to be drawn it should have been done 5 years ago. This ship sailed long ago. What is more immoral? Committing a crime and paying for it or denying a person the chance to restart his life due a some utopian standard of national pride?

 

[Bilal7]

Mohammad Wasim, if you are okay with getting a ban of five years slapped on yourself, be my guest and spot-fix all you like. Does this guy not know the severe penalties that the banned trio faced? His comments would be appropriate if no punishment was meted out, but that is not the case.

 

[Mamoon]

No need of discussing this anymore. He is back into the system and will have to prove his form and fitness to get into the team. We had 5 years to have our say and everyone has expressed his/her opinion on this matter countless times.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Mohammad Wasim = Jesus "never made any mistake"

Don't think he ever got onto the lords honour board either

 

[silentkiller187]

pointless debate, everybody deserves a second chance, its like saying cricket should never be played in pakistan again after what happened in lahore vs SL. punishments have been served, and mistakes have been learnt against.

 

[MightyObnoxious]

"If Mohammad Amir can get away with it then why can't I?"

This.. So much

 

[msb314]

This.. So much

Not really comparable - the trio were implicated in a scandal on a scale much larger then ever before. They were given punishments and imprisoned by law.

Sharjeel and Latif should know that they cannot get a away with it - the trio were the first and punishments were handed out to deter future offenders. Essentially - Sharjeel/Latif repeated their mistakes and proved they did not learn a thing which is worse because they had the benefit of foresight and much training and anti-corruption lessons that were non existant before.

 

[MightyObnoxious]

Not really comparable - the trio were implicated in a scandal on a scale much larger then ever before. They were given punishments and imprisoned by law.

Sharjeel and Latif should know that they cannot get a away with it - the trio were the first and punishments were handed out to deter future offenders. Essentially - Sharjeel/Latif repeated their mistakes and proved they did not learn a thing which is worse because they had the benefit of foresight and much training and anti-corruption lessons that were non existant before.

The facts of the cases might not be comparable but consider this, they know that a cheat was allowed to come back because he was talented.

 

[uberkoen]

The facts of the cases might not be comparable but consider this, they know that a cheat was allowed to come back because he was talented.

Also, he had served his punishment. On what basis can you keep him out of the team when he had served the punishment handed to him?

 

[Pete Rose]

Also, he had served his punishment. On what basis can you keep him out of the team when he had served the punishment handed to him?

Cool story bro.
I like the fact that you think the cummilative affect of match fixing from the 90's normalizes for all future players that match fixing is no big deal.serve your time and come back.

 

[uberkoen]

Cool story bro.
I like the fact that you think the cummilative affect of match fixing from the 90's normalizes for all future players that match fixing is no big deal.serve your time and come back.

I don't get it. Each case should be looked at independently and each player should be judged on a similar scale. Once a sentence is handed out, the player should serve his time and be allowed to re-enter the game based on his performances. What is so wrong with that?

Either set a precedent of life-time ban for anyone involved in such a thing or allow players to come back after they've served their time.

This is like saying that if someone is a thief and gets caught he shouldn't be allowed to reintegrate into society after serving his sentence. Also, if the first thief received a punishment of 5 years sentencing a second one to 10 years based on the exact same crime would also be unfair.

 

[Shafi]

Seems like M Wasim doesn't believe in second chance and forgiveness. If Aamir has served his time then is still good enough as a bowler he should get his chance. If some other youngster doesn't perform and gets replaced by Aamir, he should work hard and get his spot back through performance not by character assassination.

Should be canonize as greatest saint. Even prophet Adam made mistake.

 

[Pete Rose]

I don't get it. Each case should be looked at independently and each player should be judged on a similar scale. Once a sentence is handed out, the player should serve his time and be allowed to re-enter the game based on his performances. What is so wrong with that?

Either set a precedent of life-time ban for anyone involved in such a thing or allow players to come back after they've served their time.

This is like saying that if someone is a thief and gets caught he shouldn't be allowed to reintegrate into society after serving his sentence. Also, if the first thief received a punishment of 5 years sentencing a second one to 10 years based on the exact same crime would also be unfair.

What is clear after 25 years of putting up with this nonsense (from Justic qayyums soft spot for wasim till he return of aamir) that temporary bans or monetary punishment doesn't work. It keeps happening. And if it keeps happening, PCB now needs a new approach. No more temp bans. If all of what is said about the latest shameful incident of matchfixing then now is the time to change tact and ban for life each and everyone.

There is no looking at things in isolation. It's time to admit that Pakistani cricket has a deep adinity for match-fixing.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

I don't get it. Each case should be looked at independently and each player should be judged on a similar scale. Once a sentence is handed out, the player should serve his time and be allowed to re-enter the game based on his performances. What is so wrong with that?

Either set a precedent of life-time ban for anyone involved in such a thing or allow players to come back after they've served their time.

This is like saying that if someone is a thief and gets caught he shouldn't be allowed to reintegrate into society after serving his sentence. Also, if the first thief received a punishment of 5 years sentencing a second one to 10 years based on the exact same crime would also be unfair.

How does "REINTEGRATION INTO SOCIETY" argument

equate with

"playing cricket again for the same country"

Living in the West, you of all people should know what a cancelled doctor's license, a bank manager who embezzles funds and spends time in jail and a lawyer who gets disbarred from law fares when they

"eventually reintegrate into the society".

Why should it be different for cricketers?

 

[uberkoen]

How does "REINTEGRATION INTO SOCIETY" argument

equate with

"playing cricket again for the same country"

Living in the West, you of all people should know what a cancelled doctor's license, a bank manager who embezzles funds and spends time in jail and a lawyer who gets disbarred from law fares when they

"eventually reintegrate into the society".

Why should it be different for cricketers?

You're right. That is something that I did not consider.

 

[The_Odd_One]

I don't know how can be people so stupid.

When did Aamir get away with spot-fixing?

He completed whatever punishment was given to him.

He made a come back because he was still young and had plenty of years left in his career. On the other side, Butt's and Asif's careers were virtually over tag day they were convicted.