"If Mohammad Amir can get away with it then why can't I?" : Mohammad Wasim

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Here's the first blog for PakPassion from former Pakistan batsman Mohammad Wasim.

Wasim signalled his arrival into international cricket with a century on Test debut against New Zealand at just 19 years of age. He played 18 matches between 1996 and 2000, scoring two centuries and two half-centuries with a top score of 192. Originally selected to bat at number seven, Wasim gradually moved up the order and ended up playing half of his 18 matches batting in the top three.

Wasim made his final international appearances against Sri Lanka in 2000 and a few years later decided to leave his home country and settle in New Zealand to play first-class cricket for Otago, who he represented for three seasons. He subsequently returned home to play domestic cricket and captained Khan Research Laboratories (KRL). In a 20-year domestic career, the right-handed batsman has scored over 10,000 first-class runs, including 27 centuries and also captained Pakistan A.

Wasim was player-coach of Dutch Sparta 1888, and has continued to play club cricket in the Netherlands.

In a series of exclusive articles written exclusively for PakPassion.net, Mohammad Wasim will share his thoughts on a variety of issues affecting cricket in Pakistan and around the world.



"If Mohammad Amir can get away with it than why can't I?" : Mohammad Wasim

I am a young talented cricketer. I heard some great news yesterday that I have been selected for the national team. I was so happy that my childhood dream is coming true. I will be able represent my country and get the chance to become famous and to provide myself and my family a better life.

I am so overjoyed that soon I will have the honour to represent my country and I will never do anything to damage my country's name. But today I am confused. I heard that someone who has been found guilty of damaging our country's name and was serving a punishment, will be soon be allowed to play cricket again. That means even if I do well for Pakistan I could be replaced by him, or if I don't do well I might not get a second chance because of him.

So what should I do now? Should I think of short cuts to fulfil my dreams? Even if I get caught I can always make a comeback like him. If Mohammad Amir can get away with it than why can't I?

I am also young and very talented. Maybe I should not play blind in this weak system, I should look at all the cards in my hand and look at all the options available to me if I don't trust this system.

Thanks to the weak management at the helm of the PCB, you can't blame players to have all these doubts. There are many questions. Why is the PCB so weak that for once they cant take a simple decision for the betterment of the game in Pakistan? Why don't they send a clear message to all players at least one time so that all players will think it over many times before doing something silly?

Why don't the PCB punish the culprits themselves. Why doesn't the PCB ever take the initial step for a change. Why are all the punishments and penalties coming from the ICC, other cricket boards or courts? Is the PCB just there to follow them?

Spot fixing, match fixing, positive dope tests, smoking hash, ball tampering, pitch tampering, the PCB has never punished anyone accordingly. Even if they did, after a short while the decision was reversed.

There were some other scandals also involving one or two umpires and a player who ran away during a tour. Still I guess everyone is waiting for that one day when everything will be brought to the attention of the public, what actually happened and why and what is PCB's stance on it.

Its time to move forward and get rid of this old method of hiding the files and problems in dusty cupboards and pretend that everything is solved. The Pakistani nation who loves cricket has every right to know and see the clear picture. Without showing the facts to the public and to the players, it's not possible to earn the respect and trust which unfortunately PCB has lost for many years.

The whole organisation needs a overhaul from top to bottom and a review of the system and policies - if there are any! Its time to look at ourselves and stop blaming others and always act like the victims. There are double standards for us, we always get mistreated, we get harder punishments than others, other cricket boards are influencing ICC etc. Oh come on ! Look at our standards first, here and there winning some games is not going to bring our lost identity back. We need to set high standards on and off the field and it always start from ourselves.

It's time for action now, not only emotional words and promises here and there.

On the other hand when it comes to the Board being criticised, they are very strict. If you say something, next day you will get a show cause notice and if you still don't shut up then your international and domestic cricket will be over. I am an example of this policy. So obviously criticising PCB is a bigger crime than damaging Pakistan's name!

Its very sad and heartbreaking to see great talent wasted but for everybody's sake and for the pride of country, strict steps should be taken so it never happens again. One clear message should be that if you get involved in such activities you will never be able to play again, you will never even become coach, selector, manager or have any role in cricket for rest of your life. No more photos in the stadiums and no hall of fame !!

Sometimes PCB's softness raises many question in the public's mind. Many people often think, is everybody connected? Maybe its time to take steps for PCB's own reputation. Rather than educating players not to do such immoral acts, show them one time what will happen if you do such things and that will be a lesson to everyone.

Remember one thing - PCB's clean-chit will no longer be enough. The public does not forgive or forget. For every bad shot, dropped catch, no ball, wide ball from the banned player when he returns, the public will scream "its fixed!"
 
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I am so overjoyed that soon I will have the honour to represent my country and I will never do anything to damage my country's name. But today I am confused. I heard that someone who has been found guilty of damaging our country's name and was serving a punishment, will be soon be allowed to play cricket again. That means even if I do well for Pakistan I could be replaced by him, or if I don't do well I might not get a second chance because of him.

So what should I do now? Should I think of short cuts to fulfil my dreams? Even if I get caught I can always make a comeback like him. If Mohammad Amir can get away with it than why can't I?

I am also young and very talented. Maybe I should not play blind in this weak system, I should look at all the cards in my hand and look at all the options available to me if I don't trust this system.

Thanks to the weak management at the helm of the PCB, you cant blame players to have all these doubts. There are many questions. Why is the PCB so weak that for once they cant take a simple decision for the betterment of the game in Pakistan? Why don't they send a clear message to all players at least one time so that all players will think it over many times before doing something silly?

Why don't the PCB punish the culprits themselves. Why doesn't the PCB ever take the initial step for a change. Why are all the punishments and penalties coming from the ICC, other cricket boards or courts? Is the PCB just there to follow them?

Nail.. head.
 
Seems like M Wasim doesn't believe in second chance and forgiveness. If Aamir has served his time then is still good enough as a bowler he should get his chance. If some other youngster doesn't perform and gets replaced by Aamir, he should work hard and get his spot back through performance not by character assassination.
 
excellent article. this victim mentality has to stop and yes, the board needs a major overhaul !
 
People forget that reason behind punishment is to make you a better person so that you don't do same wrong thing again and continue with your life.

People get their punishment reduced by showing good behavior even in criminal cases. but seems like we as a society aren't willing to forgive people who perhaps might really want to restart their life after completing their punishment.

I heard that someone who has been found guilty of damaging our country's name and was serving a punishment, will be soon be allowed to play cricket again. That means even if I do well for Pakistan I could be replaced by him, or if I don't do well I might not get a second chance because of him.

This is actually a defeatist attitude towards life and the job you're doing it would be better if you don't bowl again.

Its just like asking your self should i stop bowling because i bowled a good delivery and even that got hit for a Four / Six.

What do you normally do? Go back to your mark and bowl again hoping that you would get the wicket.

Its only you don't get to bowl because you're doing the same mistake again and getting punished for it.


Seems like M Wasim doesn't believe in second chance and forgiveness. If Aamir has served his time then is still good enough as a bowler he should get his chance. If some other youngster doesn't perform and gets replaced by Aamir, he should work hard and get his spot back through performance not by character assassination.

Exactly
 
So even after punishment he remains a criminal?

You are young and you are talented and you are performing then no mohammad amir can stop you.
 
he is right. PCB has never punished Pakistan cricketers properly for what they have done.
 
well you have to agree with his logic, If Amir is allowed back to play for Pakistan then he will be replacing some youngster who has been clean, the youngster might not be as talented as Amir but it wouldn't be fair to replace him with Amir.
 
Remember one thing - PCB's clean-chit will no longer be enough. The public does not forgive or forget. For every bad shot, dropped catch, no ball, wide ball from the banned player when he returns, the public will scream "its fixed!"

The best and so truthful lines of the article.
 
Mohammad Amir would have served his punishment and all young cricketers will think twice before risking a 5 year ban.

Amir, in Imran Khan's words, is the most talented 18 year old in 40 years. If he came back, it wouldn't mean any youngster can.
 
I agree with every word of that. I would not want to be in Pakistan Domestic.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
 
What is the problem exactly ??

He is being rightfully punished for his crime. Once he has finished his sentence should he be good enough then I don't see why he can't be selected again.
Although a very good bowler I have doubts if he will come back and regain his form. Even mentally you need to be strong to come back from the wilderness.
 
Easier to say this stuff when your future is not on the line. If he serves his time and punishment and if he is fit, in form and good enough then he can come back
 
Nailed it, if only Pakistan as a nation would stop believing on "second chances" imagine where we would be as a nation...

But yeah if I was a youngster playing for Pakistan I would be thinking the same, I mean there's always a second chance right?
 
If any player thinks they can do the same what Amir did then they are an idiot.

Who would risk a 5 year ban, a potential career killer for pocket change?

A clean record is no substitute for ability.

Amir would have paid his dues and legally entitled to compete again.

If he performs the best in domestics than select him for national team. If Mohammed Wasim wants to step up to the plate and do better than do it, deliver world class performance.
 
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I understand his point of view! But you have to put things in perspective. You cannot punish Aamir forever. He was given 5 years and that is more then many other fixers like Wasim, Gibbs etc.

He served his time and if he is good enough to play domestic cricket, he should be allowed and if he performs better then other he should be given a chance at the highest level.
 
If any player thinks they can do the same what Amir did then they are an idiot.

Who would risk a 5 year ban, a potential career killer for pocket change?

A clean record is no substitute for ability.

Amir would have paid his dues and legally entitled to compete again.

If he performs the best in domestics than select him for national team. If Mohammed Wasim wants to step up to the plate and do better than do it, deliver world class performance.
.

Sreesanth did and has been banned for life.
 
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Pakistanis are a leg pulling nation. We just look for slightest opportunity to knock someone when he is down. Even gibbs, boje, Samuels were let back after doing their time.
 
Mohammad Aamir was entrapped by his own Captain. And a tabloid newspaper that sought to ruin Pakistan team. The tabloid was itself shut down later for illegal practices. I am not saying Aamir is innocent. but consider the circumstances. You are new, young & your Captain tells you to cheat...
Cricket greats like Rahul Dravid, Mike Brearley, Michael Artherton have all pleaded forgiveness for Mohd Aamir. I would rather listen to them than somebody who had very little success as a cricketer.
 
What a classy cover-drive to begin proceedings...eagerly looking at this space for more write-ups from Mohammed Wasim..
 
well you have to agree with his logic, If Amir is allowed back to play for Pakistan then he will be replacing some youngster who has been clean, the youngster might not be as talented as Amir but it wouldn't be fair to replace him with Amir.

This !
 
Mohammad Aamir was entrapped by his own Captain. And a tabloid newspaper that sought to ruin Pakistan team. The tabloid was itself shut down later for illegal practices. I am not saying Aamir is innocent. but consider the circumstances. You are new, young & your Captain tells you to cheat...
Cricket greats like Rahul Dravid, Mike Brearley, Michael Artherton have all pleaded forgiveness for Mohd Aamir. I would rather listen to them than somebody who had very little success as a cricketer.
If you know you have done something wrong than my question is why would you go on national TV go in front of famous TV talk show hosts and millions of people watching and claim that you are innocent but than when you are found guilty by the ICC and english court you take back all your words and just ask for forgiveness? Its a crime after a crime, first you cheat your nation and you are caught red handed than you play with sensitive Pakistani peoples emotions, who would believe anything these days. Pakistani cricketers will never be respected anywhere in the world because of the actions of these 3. I don't care if Mohammad Amir claims he was entrapped by his captain, why wasn't ajmal or gul or afridi or rest of the playing 11 entrapped I believe Azhar ali and Umar Amin were making the debuts at that time? they were also part of the squad no? why him only? Please save all that for someone else I don't want to hear it, this guy just lies and lies. Pakistan has ample of talent, this guy was nothing special, what he did can't be forgiven and should not be forgotten. I will always look at him as a lie and a cheat and I hope to never see him in the green uniform again same goes for butt and asif. Pakistan needs to develop courage to go after those who ruin it...
 
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Eye opening statement for some :amir fans:amir should be history if even if we have pick players like :tanvir still Amir should not be allowed
 
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the ICC did not see it fit to give them life bans for their crimes so not sure what Wasim's issue is with it.

I do agree that the PCB could have been more forceful from their own side, but with the amount of time it took to finally punish the trio I am not surprised that they did not.
 
When society accept the criminals after completion of their punishments, then why not a spots person is accepted. Even murderers, after completion of their punishment, are accepted by us (society). Then why not Muhammad Amir???

He had enough punishment. So after bann is completed and he performs better than others, why not he is accepted?

We are hypocrate, If our brother/father/friend do murder. After completion of punishment, we dont say why society is giving him another chance to live in???
 
You guys are acting like there are 100's of Amir's in Pakistan. He was banned in 2010 and 3 years later no one close to his talent has been discovered. No, life isn't fair, someone like him will get preferential treatment.
 
What a compelling read! Very bold stuff from Mohammad Wasim!

Now, whereas I won´t quite argue much against Mohammad Amir being allowed to play after serving his punishment (and I as an administrator and as a well-wisher of my country´s sports would want it to be kept as clean as possible), my objection is to the bias treatment here just because he is young (and very talented), whereas Salman Butt and Mohammad Asif aren´t; and it´s an undeniable fact that both these are mocked and made fun of). He is treated and written about by his fans as if he was some baby pushed into it. Many people are even in favour of the reduction of his ban.

Why? Just because since he is young, he has age on his side to make a comeback and also because most of the people out there admired him more than the other two guys. Admit it!

"He was young and naïve, hence.... "

Ermmm,.... my parents never told me, "Son, don´t be greedy, don´t sell your soul." However, if I still go on to do it, I will be doing it because I turned out to be a greedy person ready to sell himself, not because I am naïve. Same goes for the excuse on education, because schools, colleges, universities don´t have "greed" as a subject. Also, wasn´t Butt one of Pakistan´s most educated cricketers?

I as an administrator and as a well-wisher of my country´s sports would want it to be kept as clean as possible:

Just to expand on this earlier statement of mine, I don´t really mean that he will engage into the forbidden stuff again, or that he will lure other fellow cricketers into it, but more so the attention that will surround the each no-ball and wide ball that Amir will bowl in his career again. How will the fans react to seeing the stretched arm of the umpire on the television screen, given that quite a number of Pakistani fans are quite notorious for making match-fixing allegations sitting at home, and also of course the media at times? How about the mental aspect of things? How will he or his fellow cricketers feel if is sledged by the members of other teams about his past doings? These are a few things to ponder.....
 
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Yeah, 2nd chances and all. But there are certain professions like the army, judiciary WC where convicts are not allowed. They are not given second chances. So, why should cricket be different? It's about representing your country. You want the best possible surely but you don't want to bring back convicted cheats. And btw, why Aamir? Why not Butt then? Our problem is not bowling, we need a good batsmen. Bring back Butt.
 
Mohammad Aamir was entrapped by his own Captain. And a tabloid newspaper that sought to ruin Pakistan team. The tabloid was itself shut down later for illegal practices. I am not saying Aamir is innocent. but consider the circumstances. You are new, young & your Captain tells you to cheat...
Cricket greats like Rahul Dravid, Mike Brearley, Michael Artherton have all pleaded forgiveness for Mohd Aamir. I would rather listen to them than somebody who had very little success as a cricketer.

no he was not entrapped. He took the money and never showed any remorse until after he was convicted.

its irrelevant that the tabloid was shut down, they exposed the truth about our team. If anything, getting rid of the cheats helped us in the long run in becoming a better team.
 
People forget that reason behind punishment is to make you a better person so that you don't do same wrong thing again and continue with your life.

People get their punishment reduced by showing good behavior even in criminal cases. but seems like we as a society aren't willing to forgive people who perhaps might really want to restart their life after completing their punishment.



This is actually a defeatist attitude towards life and the job you're doing it would be better if you don't bowl again.

Its just like asking your self should i stop bowling because i bowled a good delivery and even that got hit for a Four / Six.

What do you normally do? Go back to your mark and bowl again hoping that you would get the wicket.

Its only you don't get to bowl because you're doing the same mistake again and getting punished for it.




Exactly



POTW. I 1000% agree
 
Amir can restart his life. Get an education and get a job. Who says he has to suffer for the rest of his life? He should have gotten an education by now
 
When society accept the criminals after completion of their punishments, then why not a spots person is accepted. Even murderers, after completion of their punishment, are accepted by us (society). Then why not Muhammad Amir???

He had enough punishment. So after bann is completed and he performs better than others, why not he is accepted?

We are hypocrate, If our brother/father/friend do murder. After completion of punishment, we dont say why society is giving him another chance to live in???

Murderers do get accepted by the society, but have you thought about how difficult a former convict finds it to get a good job again? You have tovirtually beg others to trust you now, because your credibility has disappeared the moment you chose to go the wrong route. A person who has served time in jail for a theft is not going to find another job easily, and even if he gets one he is going to be under the scanner for a long time.

There is a thing called background check. Do you know why companies do this?
 
The PCB has so many things that need putting right, re-sentencing Amir is not really the biggest issue. Pakistan cricket is in tatters due to the WOT, the like of Amir need to be carefully monitored and encouraged to start fresh as there are few other players who can reignite the passion for the game in a jaded support base.

The PCB should be far more vigilant in general about the possibility of fixers in the dressing room, and to be fair I think they have been since this incident.
 
Mohammad Aamir was entrapped by his own Captain. And a tabloid newspaper that sought to ruin Pakistan team.

:)))


When society accept the criminals after completion of their punishments, then why not a spots person is accepted. Even murderers, after completion of their punishment, are accepted by us (society). Then why not Muhammad Amir???

Zabardasti ka jazbati post.
The ex cons whom you mentiond, are they sent to represent the nation? No wonder the credibility of pakistani cricketer will be an issue till such fans are there.


Amir can restart his life. Get an education and get a job. Who says he has to suffer for the rest of his life? He should have gotten an education by now

Absolutely.
pcb itself seems like made up of weak officials.
 
its not just pcb though. We have a pathetic government, police force, etc etc. Its not shocking that PCB has tried to get Amir's ban reduced.
 
"Spot fixing, match fixing, positive dope tests, smoking hash, ball tampering, pitch tampering, the PCB has never punished anyone accordingly. Even if they did, after a short while the decision was reversed."
Is there anything our players haven't been guilty of?
 
Wasim Bhai, excellent write up! Thanks for taking time to share your views with us!

Please allow me to reply to a couple of points you raises - as a die hard cricket fan and show you how people like me see the picture as an outsider.

1) Honor to represent my country.
Well, 20/30+ years ago, almost every cricket felt that way. Because there was not as much money in cricket as there is now. Some years ago, cricket has become a full-fledged professional sport. Cricket is a job. Cricketers work for organizations - like PCB, ACB, BCCI etc which, as you know, are "for-profit" organizations. They are not tax-exempt "national organization which truly represent "a country".

Point is that in last some years, the money/professional factor has gotten much bigger than "honor to present your country" factor. Prime example is ... that the number of players announcing retirement from their international career much early so they can spend time in IPL. I am sure, you know which players I am talking about.

Second point is if representing the country is such a huge honor (which I am sure, it used to be) then why all the selfishness, greediness come into a player's mind as soon as he enters that dressing room, even if you totally forget the match fixing? You sat in the Pak team's dressing room for years. I am sure you saw countless episodes of fighting, bickering, dirty politics, back stabbing, back biting, nepotism, unfair selections by the captains, etc.
Can you please explain where that "honor to represent country" disappears as soon as a player has played 5-10 matches?

So, yes.... I agree most players may still dream about getting into the team, but once they become part of the team, they should behave highly professionally but unfortunately they don't! That "honor to represent country" feeling just disappears in most cases.


2) "If Mohammad Amir can get away with it than why can't I?"
Well, with all due respect, I disagree. In my opinion, Aamir did not get away with it, he was punished severely. In any respected family or household, serving a jail term is an extremely shameful suffering. My parents would have died of heart attack if I was thrown in jail.

So the point is.... if a youngster thinks "serving a jail term" is same as "getting away with it" then he should not even close to the team.

Plus, in most aspect of life ... you make mistake, you get punished, you move on. In Islam, even murder can be forgiven. So why can't a mistake of an 19 year old kid not be forgiven - after he has been severely punished?



3) PCB's role in the whole episode and the PCB culture.
On this subject, I can write a book. I agree with every word you said about PCB.

But a couple of short points....
Wasim said:
Why don't the PCB punish the culprits themselves.
Because to be able to hold somebody accountable, you should have clean slate yourself. When you have completely inept, unprofessional, unethical and sometimes corrupt people running an organization, they will never hold anybody accountable justly. As you said, show cause notices to players are dime-a-dozen from PCB but who is going to hold them accountable?

You have numerous players banned, punished and fined for various reasons by PCB but did you ever hear a PCB Chairman or an Executive fire or punished? Why? Any they perfect? Do they never make a mistake? So when you are weak, inept, unprofessional, unethical and sometimes corrupt and unaccountable, how can you make right decisions?

Wasim said:
The whole organisation needs a overhaul from top to bottom...
......It's time for action now,
True but who is going to do that? Our political leaders like Nawaz Sharif and Zardari .... .who hand pick PCB Chairmen themselves? I can bet money... that they will appoint people like themselves. Hence the state of Pakistan team and Pakistan cricket!

Wasim said:
I am an example of this policy. So obviously criticising PCB is a bigger crime than damaging Pakistan's name!

Tell us about it! We all know how you were unfairly treated by PCB, selectors and team management. IMO, your name would have been taken along with Inzi, Miandad, MoYo and other greats but inept selectors dropped you unfairly so many times.

Here is the your test careers - for the poster who do not know. Can you please let know what justification selectors, captains, etc gave you when they dropped you right after scoring those innings highlighted in yellow? How did feel walking to wicket every time... I mean did you feel pressure that if you fail in even one innings ... you will be dropped? What you could have done differently to play ... let's say 50-70 tests for Pakistan?

Again... thanks for sharing your thoughts.


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Top post by W63L35 :14:

Thanks... but hey, what do I know about cricket... I watch it on calculators and spreadsheets..as a lot of posters here strongly believe!!! :p

I would love to hear Wasim's response to my last paragraph. I mean, I'd like to know his feelings/pressure/etc.....when walking to the wicket in the 1st test vs SAF in 1997-98 at Rawalpindi knowing he was dropped for two tests .... after scoring 109* and 5 against NZ.

I would love to know how he felt walking to wicket vs West Indies in Georgetown knowing he was dropped right after a classy 91 and 20 in infamous Hobart test vs McGrath and Warne at their peek?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63855.html

Why was he dropped in for 3rd test ....... for 3rd test after Hobart test? How did tour selection committee told him that Wajahatullah Wasti is replacing him...unless Wasim was injured!

Point, is that this will help us fans understand how playing musical chair with young batsmen's career ... totally destroys their confidence! Why PCB and selection committees drop a youngster after 1-2 failures... and how it impacts the players?
 
Wasim got a raw deal as a Pakistan cricketer, for some reason his face didn't fit at the time. But I think that the root of the problem has always been cricket boards trying to cover up the shenanigans of some of their star players (and PCB isn't the only one guilty of this). But Amir was a teenager who walked into a culture of fixing among the senior players, I don't agree with Wasim that he should be banned for ever. Gibbs is still playing for SA after serving only a two year ban, and again he was a young cricketer who learned the lesson the hard way.

Yes the PCB needs to set a harder line following the fiasco but that's their responsibility, there's no need to pass the buck to one player.
 
Wasim got a raw deal as a Pakistan cricketer, for some reason his face didn't fit at the time.
It is not just Wasim. There are many others. I have built similar charts for Imran Nazir and Faisal Iqbal.... they (and many others like them) also got right after 1-2 failures... just like Wasim.


But I think that the root of the problem has always been cricket boards trying to cover up the shenanigans of some of their star players (and PCB isn't the only one guilty of this).
It is not just one. There are countless issues with PCB. IMO, the #1 issue is that PCB Chairman is not accountable for his blunders where as players like Wasim get dropped after failing in 1-2 matches ... even either by playing bad shot or getting out on a great delivery. They pay a huge price for that. What prices DNA, Ijaz Butt, Zaka Ashraf played for the blunders they made?



But Amir was a teenager who walked into a culture of fixing among the senior players, I don't agree with Wasim that he should be banned for ever. Gibbs is still playing for SA after serving only a two year ban, and again he was a young cricketer who learned the lesson the hard way.
I agree! I don't why we hold cricket team and players at such a high pedestal when PCB/BCCI/ACB/ect are organizations and players are simply its paid employees! A lot of us (including Wasim) do not want Aamir to back to the team but to me I'd rather those people raise a voice for a corrupt police office to not go back to his job after being put of "special duty". I'd rather have a corrupt minister, MNA, MPA thrown out or corrupt WAPDA or other public servant put to jail because these people DIRECTLY impact out lives. Cricketers are professionals like them doing their job.

I have given Pro-Golf, Pro-Tennis, American Football examples many times which also sports but independent of fake "country" concept. A lot of worse things happen in American football than match fixing. NFL deals with them professionally and accordingly..... and the game goes on. Nobody makes it issue of national integrity. I have no idea why we are so sensitive about the team and the players...when all of watch sports to get entertained!

Yes the PCB needs to set a harder line following the fiasco but that's their responsibility, there's no need to pass the buck to one player.
How can you set a hard line for players when for the PCB board members and executives and directors, there no line what so ever!
 
Great debut on PakPassion by Mohammad Wasim.

I guess the points that Wasim is making is that is Amir's treatment a proper deterrent for other young cricketers. Will some still think ok I'll take a 5 year ban to make a lot of money.

Also the other angle is that what about the player(s) whose place Amir takes in domestic cricket or the Pakistan team, how will they feel?

Regarding your questions W63 for Wasim......plenty of articles to come from him. He'll do one on his own career and treatment also.
 
I wonder how many of the folks who say dont give m Aamir a second chance also said the same about Wasim Akram. I wonder if M.Wasim thinks Wasim Akram should not have played after the match fixing scandal
 
Great debut on PakPassion by Mohammad Wasim.
I guess the points that Wasim is making is that is Amir's treatment a proper deterrent for other young cricketers.
No it won't be ...... if the young cricketer thinks that being in jail for 1-2 years, tons of money lost endorsements, lost respect & credibility, embarrassment, lost match fee, lost monthly pay/allowance from PCB, huge fees for the attorneys and the stress that comes with it... is not a big deal.

But that is evaluating the consequences rationally.... and how many 19 year old will do that? :)

Will some still think ok I'll take a 5 year ban to make a lot of money.

IMO... no matter how much money a youngster will earn in match fixing ..... it will be peanuts as compared to what Aamir lost in those 5 years ... and will keep losing even if he starts playing!

Also the other angle is that what about the player(s) whose place Amir takes in domestic cricket or the Pakistan team, how will they feel?
Yes, that is a tough one! I will feel for that kid.... but in a reverse analogy, what if Aamir was your [not you, Saj - I mean anybody :)] younger brother or son, would you [again not you, Saj - I mean anybody] have felt as strongly about the permanent ban as you do now?

Before anybody answer this question... please look around, I am sure you know a few (one of two) people in your own household, close relatives, distant relatives, friends etc ... who take bribes at their job. How many us ...do you think, have walked up to that relative/friend and asked them to stop taking haraam money? Anybody? Personally I'd feel much more sympathy for the person .... who gave bribe to one of my relative/friend ... than the player who loses his place for Aamir! Not because I like Aamir.... it is because the person who gave my relative/friend a bribe...could not offered it or .... it would have been his hard earned money...which he gave up may be just to get a favor which would have been his basic right anyway!


Regarding your questions W63 for Wasim......plenty of articles to come from him. He'll do one on his own career and treatment also.
Thank you so much!

Another blog I'd like Wasim to do is.. on the selection matters, polices of playing XI on the tours. Who does it? How...and his personal experiences.
 
Using punishment as a deterrence is not always an easy moral or ethical decision.

Why should an individual be punished beyond what is proportional given the crime. Should we impose a penalty on him more than what is just for the crime simply to prevent others from doing it?

That in my opinion transgresses what is just and goes into unjust territory.
 
Mohammad Wasim is wrong, Mohammad Amir didn't get away with it. He went to prison and has been banned for 5 years. That's not what it means to get away with it. He's paid his debt for his wrongdoing.
 
Well said, lad is a sellout, if he is allowed to come back and wear green again, it says a lot of those who support him, many must have said Asif is young give him another chance, he kept repeating his mistakes, pretty sure Amir will too.
 
2) "If Mohammad Amir can get away with it than why can't I?"
Well, with all due respect, I disagree. In my opinion, Aamir did not get away with it, he was punished severely. In any respected family or household, serving a jail term is an extremely shameful suffering. My parents would have died of heart attack if I was thrown in jail.

So the point is.... if a youngster thinks "serving a jail term" is same as "getting away with it" then he should not even close to the team.


Plus, in most aspect of life ... you make mistake, you get punished, you move on. In Islam, even murder can be forgiven. So why can't a mistake of an 19 year old kid not be forgiven - after he has been severely punished?

.

quite interesting. so a person who thinks about that should not come even close to the team but the person who actually did it should be allowed to come into team again.

yes he has served and should be allowed to rejoin the society but not necessarily the team. if somebody did embezzlement in a bank, will he be allowed to join any back after serving his time.
 
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W63L35 said:
So the point is.... if a youngster thinks "serving a jail term" is same as "getting away with it" then he should not even come close to the team.

quite interesting. so a person who thinks about that should not come even close to the team but the person who actually did it should be allowed to come into team again.

Don't translate my statement into it's literal meaning... because if you did that, it will only imply that I am proposing to read youngster's thoughts. Can we practically do that?

What I meant by the statement was... that probability of such a person fixing the match is much bigger than Aamir doing it again! That is all.
 
Don't translate my statement into it's literal meaning... because if you did that, it will only imply that I am proposing to read youngster's thoughts. Can we practically do that?

What I meant by the statement was... that probability of such a person fixing the match is much bigger than Aamir doing it again! That is all.

The only question to really ask here is especially after your figures of wasim's career, does he think he was dropped from the team because he didn't indulge in any nefarious activities?
 
Don't translate my statement into it's literal meaning... because if you did that, it will only imply that I am proposing to read youngster's thoughts. Can we practically do that?

What I meant by the statement was... that probability of such a person fixing the match is much bigger than Aamir doing it again! That is all.

totally agree nobody can read any person's thoughts. actually nobody knows whats gonna happen in future if we did this or that. but still we learn from past and try to predict future. we let go akram and co because they were superstars and what happen we have more such cases. india, with all there mismanagement, didn't let go azhar and since then we didn't see any such scenario atleast at national team level. there are places we need to take hard decisions. yes amir is super talented, yes we will be weaker without him and most probably lose many matches. although we lose matches when he was there but that beside the point. its like australia banned all stars like lillee, chappell bros, marsh during packer issue and lost many many matches. that's the sacrifice we need to make for discipline and implementing law.
 
Amir DID NOT get away, he got caught and punished.

When we punishing someone that means they paid for their crimes (The punishment fits the crime or not is another question). We cannot punish someone for rest of their life without giving them chance of Repentance.

P.S. I am not a Amir fan-boy, and I don't think if he will make it back to Pak team somehow we will be no. 1.
 
how did he get away?

He served 5 years + time in prison + unimaginable goodwill and brand image
 
Well I don't think that's right..it's not as if Amir was not punished!
He has to face a 5yr ban not to mention all the embarrassment in front of the nation and even if he gets back into the team it will not be easy sailing for him..every no-ball bowled will be questioned and his team mates might not be that comfortable with him not to mention the critics who will pounce on every thing he does..it's not easy for him and he is being rightfully punished for what he has done..
 
He confessed before the trial in England and pleaded guilty while Butt and Asif kept on Lying. Yes he Initially lied. Which was why he was Given the 5 year ban and Prison time. That was judged by a neutral Authority no connection with PCB.
 
Well said


Ever wonder why the Tabloid only targeted Pakistanis but not the English or Australian players. If Other country players are so honest. They should have tried just to prove that point. No They only went after Pakistan.
 
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Mohammad Wasim is live on PTV Sports now. Watching him for the first time in a TV program and looks like a sensible and decent guy with a lot of cricketing sense.
 
Disclaimer: I apologize in advance if I hurt any sentiments in the following post. I loved Aamir a lot as a bowler, just as I love Shoaib even now. I really really wanted to see him play. I am hurt by what he did to himself, his country, and also the game. Please read on.

If a doctor malpractices with malice, even after serving the sentence - the person is not allowed to practice medicine again.

If a person who entered a country illegally gets caught, he serves his sentence - but usually he will never get a visa again.

Many employment applications, visa applications etc have a question:

"Have you ever been convicted for anything more than a minor driving offence?"

This question itself is irrelevant if people are totally forgiven after the sentence is served.

In all these cases, punishment is given in accordance to the crime - but even after the sentence is served - the person may end up losing some privileges.

Playing for BCCI or PCB or SLC is a privilege and not a right - so how come people demand that criminal players should be allowed into the game just because they have served the sentence? Aamir is sentenced for the crime he commited; and he should not be allowed to be play because he is not ETHICALLY competent to play.

Also to note the fact that Aamir kept denying his role and kept trying to garner sympathy - he even claimed that the no-ball incident was a conspiracy to malign him. A truly remorseful person will never do that.

Another thing - tomorrow if certain countries deny Aamir visa because he is a [ex] criminal; Pakistani Cricket Board and some fans will claim that its because they are afraid of Aamir! So boards will be forced to do the politically correct thing and allow a criminal entry into their country - just because they will be accused of cowardice otherwise.

Personally, I feel that Amir should be punished EVEN more than Salman Butt. Salman was mediocre, such people in their insecurity and low self-esteem can yield to corruption. But when a competent person becomes corrupt, there is really no excuse. Think about it.
 
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Disclaimer: I apologize in advance if I hurt any sentiments in the following post. I loved Aamir a lot as a bowler, just as I love Shoaib even now. I really really wanted to see him play. I am hurt by what he did to himself, his country, and also the game. Please read on.

If a doctor malpractices with malice, even after serving the sentence - the person is not allowed to practice medicine again.

If a person who entered a country illegally gets caught, he serves his sentence - but usually he will never get a visa again.

Many employment applications, visa applications etc have a question:

"Have you ever been convicted for anything more than a minor driving offence?"

This question itself is irrelevant if people are totally forgiven after the sentence is served.

In all these cases, punishment is given in accordance to the crime - but even after the sentence is served - the person may end up losing some privileges.

Playing for BCCI or PCB or SLC is a privilege and not a right - so how come people demand that criminal players should be allowed into the game just because they have served the sentence? Aamir is sentenced for the crime he commited; and he should not be allowed to be play because he is not ETHICALLY competent to play.

Also to note the fact that Aamir kept denying his role and kept trying to garner sympathy - he even claimed that the no-ball incident was a conspiracy to malign him. A truly remorseful person will never do that.

Another thing - tomorrow if certain countries deny Aamir visa because he is a [ex] criminal; Pakistani Cricket Board and some fans will claim that its because they are afraid of Aamir! So boards will be forced to do the politically correct thing and allow a criminal entry into their country - just because they will be accused of cowardice otherwise.

Personally, I feel that Amir should be punished EVEN more than Salman Butt. Salman was mediocre, such people in their insecurity and low self-esteem can yield to corruption. But when a competent person becomes corrupt, there is really no excuse. Think about it.

An excellent post! I had these points in mind but I am too lazy to type them out. I agree with everything apart from the last paragraph. Great points!
 
An excellent post! I had these points in mind but I am too lazy to type them out. I agree with everything apart from the last paragraph. Great points!

And why do you think that way? A person lacking in self-confidence and self-worth is more likely to take shortcuts than a person who is gifted. I play dota at a high level, and I know that people who are skilled don't use scripts - they do better than even scripts will permit them. Whereas, mediocre players are more likely to use scripts etc. [if you want to know more - For heroes like invoker, meepo etc].

When a skilled person resorts to cheating, its all the more unreasonable.
 
And why do you think that way? A person lacking in self-confidence and self-worth is more likely to take shortcuts than a person who is gifted. I play dota at a high level, and I know that people who are skilled don't use scripts - they do better than even scripts will permit them. Whereas, mediocre players are more likely to use scripts etc. [if you want to know more - For heroes like invoker, meepo etc].

When a skilled person resorts to cheating, its all the more unreasonable.

My belief is simple on this: If Mohammad Amir being too young is not a justification for his act, then neither is Salman Butt being a lesser or a mediocre player any justification either. All three involved engaged in criminal activities. He was the captain, the leader and had a greater responsibility on himself.
 
Disclaimer: I apologize in advance if I hurt any sentiments in the following post. I loved Aamir a lot as a bowler, just as I love Shoaib even now. I really really wanted to see him play. I am hurt by what he did to himself, his country, and also the game. Please read on.

If a doctor malpractices with malice, even after serving the sentence - the person is not allowed to practice medicine again.

If a person who entered a country illegally gets caught, he serves his sentence - but usually he will never get a visa again.

Many employment applications, visa applications etc have a question:

"Have you ever been convicted for anything more than a minor driving offence?"

This question itself is irrelevant if people are totally forgiven after the sentence is served.

In all these cases, punishment is given in accordance to the crime - but even after the sentence is served - the person may end up losing some privileges.

Playing for BCCI or PCB or SLC is a privilege and not a right - so how come people demand that criminal players should be allowed into the game just because they have served the sentence? Aamir is sentenced for the crime he commited; and he should not be allowed to be play because he is not ETHICALLY competent to play.

Also to note the fact that Aamir kept denying his role and kept trying to garner sympathy - he even claimed that the no-ball incident was a conspiracy to malign him. A truly remorseful person will never do that.

Another thing - tomorrow if certain countries deny Aamir visa because he is a [ex] criminal; Pakistani Cricket Board and some fans will claim that its because they are afraid of Aamir! So boards will be forced to do the politically correct thing and allow a criminal entry into their country - just because they will be accused of cowardice otherwise.

Personally, I feel that Amir should be punished EVEN more than Salman Butt. Salman was mediocre, such people in their insecurity and low self-esteem can yield to corruption. But when a competent person becomes corrupt, there is really no excuse. Think about it.

I nominate this for Post of the Week! Excellent points!
I personally don't agree with the last paragraph but the rest of the post is worth gold! Very well written.

I want Amir to play - if he has learnt his lesson.

On a side note,why don't you post more often? You seem to be a sensible guy.
 
The videos he has made since coming clean and the message this will have on other young tear aways is essential in keeping cricket clean and cricket needs a positive role model like mohammed amir who was influenced at a vulnerable age by a decieving captain but served his time and came good in the end.
Really is fairytale stuff if he can beat the odds in his comeback
 
He needs to realize that Amir has served his punishment out and deserves a second chance. If he wants to play for Pakistan, let him compete on merit, not by banning his competition. Sad attitude here.

I hope Amir returns and drives some fear into batsmen's hearts once again!
 
The videos he has made since coming clean and the message this will have on other young tear aways is essential in keeping cricket clean and cricket needs a positive role model like mohammed amir who was influenced at a vulnerable age by a decieving captain but served his time and came good in the end.
Really is fairytale stuff if he can beat the odds in his comeback

Excellent post. I nominate it for POTW.
 
@Randomone. Excellent post. Congratulations on winning the POTW award. I would have nominated it myself it for the award eventhough I don’t agree with some of your points raised in the context of the OP.


May be I am wrong but from the surface, it looks like following assumptions were made in OP (Mohammad Wasim) and your post;

1) There is no place for or value of 2nd chance in the life.

2) There is no place for or value of forgiveness in this life.

3) There is no place for or value of repentance in this life.

4) People never change hence Mohammad Aamir will never change.

5) Cliché that “People learn from their mistake” is totally false because we are sure that Aamir has not learned and will never learn from his mistake.

6) Cliché that “There is no substitute for the experience” holds no ground….as you know, people gain experience mostly by making mistake.

Please correct me if I am wrong in reading too much between the lines. If not, the let’s look at some of the points you raised.


randomone said:
Disclaimer: I apologize in advance if I hurt any sentiments in the following post.
Don’t worry about that! Posters (except for the fans of a certain player! :p) on these public forums generally are pretty thick skinned, otherwise they wouldn't be posting here!! :)

As long as people don't take disagreements as insults, it is OK. Only the sensitive kinds do! :p


randomone said:
I loved Aamir a lot as a bowler, just as I love Shoaib even now. I really really wanted to see him play. I am hurt by what he did to himself, his country, and also the game. Please read on.

One thing that I am still waiting for somebody to explain to me is that why do we associate “our country” with the game of cricket whose value is nothing more than entertainment? Please read point #1 and Point #3 that make in post # 43 above.
I mean cricket player's job is to entertain us. They do that..... and get handsomely paid for it. If it was anything more, then Sachin would not have been booed at his home ground not too long ago. Fans that day did not get their money's worth. They booed him.

In addition, I have stated many times that cricket in no more than a job for these cricketers. Their employers (cricket boards) are run on for-profit based philosophies!

Plus why teams sports like cricket have national pride and honor tide to them but individual sports like professional tennis, boxing or Golf don’t? Even if you look at American Football which carries no “national” team concept and yet it are as popular as (or even more than – if you look at money involved) cricket?

These cricket boards, their executives, ICC and even players are mostly in it for money. If cricket was not about money then why BCCI would put it's energy behind IPL? The stadiums in India are getting empty when it comes to their national team playing.

These cricket boards and other parties (who have their vested interests in the game of cricket i.e money) have us (fans) emotionally involved by making us think that these teams and players are matter of “national pride and honor”. The way, I look at them is… as the same people who have carved [pun intended :)] “Black Friday” out of Thanksgiving in USA or “gift giving” out of Christmas. No difference! Everything is commercial based…. when it come these type of things. Nothing wrong with it… but all I am saying is that we need to recognize the fact.

Fans are into sports for entertainment. Similar type of entertainment that actors and singers provide us. Singers have God-gifted physical ability and so do cricketers (read: athletes)! They also have a God-gifted ability to hit a ball with a wooden bat better than most of us. Hence no difference – at least to me.

Allow me to ask you a question….assuming you are from Pakistan. If Imran Tahir or Fawad Ahmed get involve in match fixing then would you be as hurt as you were because of Aamir’s actions…. or you would not care because they play for South Africa and Australia? Keep in mind, Fawad Ahmed still carries Pakistani passport – I think!
If yes, then why? If no, then why?

Here is another question. Azhar Mahmood has played a lot of international matches for Pakistan. He married a British citizen and then not too long ago, there were speculations that he may be picked to play for England. Had he end up playing for England, would that have mattered to you?
If yes, then why? If no, then why?

randomone said:
If a doctor malpractices with malice, even after serving the sentence - the person is not allowed to practice medicine again.
Good point. You are right but in my view there is a huge difference between putting somebody’s life at risk (or somebody losing his life) with a mistake made by a doctor as oppose to what Aamir did. Do you think the consequence are the same or at the same level?


randomone said:
If a person who entered a country illegally gets caught, he serves his sentence - but usually he will never get a visa again.
Again, entering another country is a very serious offence because if you enter a country illegally, you are putting the safety of that country and its people at huge risk. You could be taken as a terrorist or a spy for the enemy. So again, Aamir’s crime is not as serious as somebody entering the country illegally.

Even then, you could still re-enter the country via legal means e.g. by marrying a citizen.


randomone said:
Many employment applications, visa applications etc have a question:

"Have you ever been convicted for anything more than a minor driving offence?"
I hope you are not making another assumption that….
7) All the people with criminal record in this world (or USA) are jobless.

I mean, there are millions – if not billions of people who have criminal history. Very few of them can’t (and don’t) find a job due their criminal history.

Plus, when the employers ask that question on the job application, they are looking for people who have committed serious crimes like murders and such.

randomone said:
This question itself is irrelevant if people are totally forgiven after the sentence is served.
It is absolutely relevant. That is what the whole discussion is about. Assuming you are a Muslim, don’t we believe that eventually all of us will be totally forgiven after the sentence is served?

Plus, regarding "total forgiveness, please read my 3rd reply (paragraph) in post #50 above.

randomone said:
In all these cases, punishment is given in accordance to the crime - but even after the sentence is served - the person may end up losing some privileges.
I have already replied to the three cases you brought up.
Let me give you a more relevant (to your three cases) example. What about drivers who make a mistake and get into serious accident? Aren’t they allowed back on road – after paying for for the crime accordingly? In the cases of professional drivers (Truk and Bus drivers) make a serious mistake and cause an accident and yet. In most case, they still drive.

randomone said:
Playing for BCCI or PCB or SLC is a privilege and not a right - so how come people demand that criminal players should be allowed into the game just because they have served the sentence? Aamir is sentenced for the crime he commited; and he should not be allowed to be play because he is not ETHICALLY competent to play.

If playing for for-the-profit organizations like PCB is a privilege then every job in the world is a privilege. So I am not sure, what is your point here.

Plus, I hope the assumption here is not that ….
8) All employed people in the world are ETHICALLY competent.

randomone said:
- so how come people demand that criminal players should be allowed into the game just because they have served the sentence?

I don’t think many people are demanding that Aamir should be allowed. IMO, if CSA did not have problem allowing H Gibbs playing again for them and if PCB does not have problem playing Aamir, then it is between employer and the employee. We should accept the employee-employer relationship.

randomone said:
Also to note the fact that Aamir kept denying his role and kept trying to garner sympathy - he even claimed that the no-ball incident was a conspiracy to malign him. A truly remorseful person will never do that.

I strongly believe that Aamir was advised by his legal team to say what he said. I could be wrong though.

randomone said:
Another thing - tomorrow if certain countries deny Aamir visa because he is a [ex] criminal; Pakistani Cricket Board and some fans will claim that its because they are afraid of Aamir!
If a country denies Aamir visa, then it is their rule and their law. Nobody should complain about it.

randomone said:
So the boards will be forced to do the politically correct thing and allow a criminal entry into their country - just because they will be accused of cowardice otherwise.

Since which country’s immigration laws are dictated by cricket board? In your hypothetical situation, he will be refused visa by the embassy (Government/immigration) but their cricket board will allow the entry.. and that too based on some emotional black mail from PCB and Aamir fans?? I hope, I misunderstood your point here.

randomone said:
Personally, I feel that Amir should be punished EVEN more than Salman Butt. Salman was mediocre, such people in their insecurity and low self-esteem can yield to corruption. But when a competent person becomes corrupt, there is really no excuse. Think about it.

With all due respect, I disagree yet again! If anything, Aamir should have been treated with leniency. Let me explain why.

In USA (and a lot of other countries) the young criminals are dealt by law enforcing authorities differently than adults.The premises of that law is that young people don’t have maturity and wisdom to make rational decisions just because of the age. I am sure, you will agree that there are very valid reasons for legal (minimum) age limits for driving, voting, drinking and even buying tobacco. Don’t you?
 
Two perspectives to this.

1. From Amir's perspective, he says he's a changed man and deserves a second chance and wants to do his country proud again and feels he deserves that chance from PCB, fans and team mates.

2. From the player(s) who have not given in to cheating their country and tempted to cheat and "give in" to team mates who as Amir suggests led him down the wrong path. Their argument would be that they never did what Amir did yet they lose their place to him in domestic cricket and/or international cricket.

A very tricky situation.
 
Two perspectives to this.

Beg to differ Saj. Not just two..... there many many and many perspectives to this issue - for and against. As you have seen from the posts above, both in favor of permanent ban and against it.

1. From Amir's perspective, he says he's a changed man and deserves a second chance and wants to do his country proud again and feels he deserves that chance from PCB, fans and team mates.

I personally don't care what Aamir says. All I care is, that he has been punished severely for his mistake/sin/crime/etc and if his employer is willing to give him his job back then we should accept it...... just like CSA gave Hershell Gibbs a 2nd chance and nobody raised an eyebrow.

We have to realize the PCB suffered the most from the actions of Aamir, Asif and Butt. PCB was the one who had to actually deal with it; ICC, media, corrective actions, etc. For us fans, it did nothing more than providing us a juicy dinner table conversation topic .... or this 5000 post thread on PakPassion for us to vent and gossip.
http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?t=137337&page=64

So if PCB is willing to take a risk like CSA did with Gibbs they I don't have problem with it... since Cricket Boards have much more vested interest than we fans ever will.

2. From the player(s) who have not given in to cheating their country and tempted to cheat and "give in" to team mates who as Amir suggests led him down the wrong path. Their argument would be that they never did what Amir did yet they lose their place to him in domestic cricket and/or international cricket.

Are we assuming that Aamir will be automatically selected when he comes back? After staying out of the game, it would be miracle if he comes back as the same (let alone better) bowler.

Also, are we assuming that the selection will not be based on merit? So, if Aamir does get selected on merit - just like H Gibbs was, then what is issue here?


As you already mentioned above point in POst # 48 above and I replied with;

W63L35 said:
Yes, that is a tough one! I will feel for that kid.... but in a reverse analogy, what if Aamir was your [not you, Saj - I mean anybody ] younger brother or son, would you [again not you, Saj - I mean anybody] have felt as strongly about the permanent ban as you do now?

Before anybody answer this question... please look around, I am sure you know a few (one of two) people in your own household, close relatives, distant relatives, friends etc ... who take bribes at their job. How many us ...do you think, have walked up to that relative/friend and asked them to stop taking haraam money? Anybody? Personally I'd feel much more sympathy for the person .... who gave bribe to one of my relative/friend ... than the player who loses his place for Aamir! Not because I like Aamir.... it is because the person who gave my relative/friend a bribe...could not offered it or .... it would have been his hard earned money...which he gave up may be just to get a favor which would have been his basic right anyway!

I directed above two questions to the whole forum (not you of course) but no replies yet.

In addition, how that youngster's (whose place Aamir will take) feelings will be any different from a youngster whose place Imran Farhat took for so many matches supposedly because of Farhat's father-in-law?

How that youngster's (whose place Aamir will take) feelings will be any different from a youngster whose place Shaoib Malik took for four years because of supposedly PPP Government influence (or any influence for that matter)? A lot of people (not all) bashed Malik for his performance but how many people felt bad for that youngster whose place Malik blocked for 4 years?

How that youngster's (whose place Aamir will take) feelings will be any different from a youngster whose place is taken by captain's favorites or buddies getting selected over and over again - without any performance?

How many of us talked about the feelings of those youngsters?

We can go on and on and on.... over this morality issue but at the end of the day, Aamir's did not commit a crime that is not forgivable.


A very tricky situation.

No.. just difference of opinions and different perspectives! That's all! :)
PCB will take the decision in the end... and we will be mere spectators like always! :)
 
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I wonder how many of the folks who say dont give m Aamir a second chance also said the same about Wasim Akram. I wonder if M.Wasim thinks Wasim Akram should not have played after the match fixing scandal

Exactly ! I disagree with mohammed wasim over mohammed amir. He was a 18 year old kid, to say he will make independent decision from influence of his captain is living fools paradise.
You are expecting too much, he's made a mistake and was punished i think quite harshly enough. On top of that you have einsteins here suggesting he should'nt be even second chance which is NONSENSE !
 
Two perspectives to this.

1. From Amir's perspective, he says he's a changed man and deserves a second chance and wants to do his country proud again and feels he deserves that chance from PCB, fans and team mates.

2. From the player(s) who have not given in to cheating their country and tempted to cheat and "give in" to team mates who as Amir suggests led him down the wrong path. Their argument would be that they never did what Amir did yet they lose their place to him in domestic cricket and/or international cricket.

A very tricky situation.

Not more tricky then the mess the likes of wasim akram ended up in ( match fixing) yet got only 5000 dollars fine by justice qayyoum who said that had he banned wasim akram then world cricket would have lost a world class player !!! Now that was a very wrong statement by justice qayyoum who did'nt punish wasim appropriately. Atleast amir admitted his mistake and has to serve a 5 year ban which is harsh enough as a 2 year ban would have been fine. The likes of gibbs and shane warne got second chances after punishments ( not as harsh as amir) so what's all this stupid fuss about amir should not be allowed a second chances ????

Honestly some ppers here are behaving weird and inappropriately. Totally uncalled for !
 
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I really don't believe we should even carry on talking about this topic. What we should ensure is a set programme/ course is running efficiently at national academy to educate young cricketers of the consequences of getting involved with notorious activities such as match or spot fixing. And look forward to accepting amir back, the kid needs support of all types not divided opinions !
 
W65L35

Somethings you need to note down:

Plus, when the employers ask that question on the job application, they are looking for people who have committed serious crimes like murders and such.

In context of a game, the most serious crimes apart from murder, sexual harassment, intentionally and seriously hurting a player is cheating. Even dacoity is a less serious offense in this context. Because a cheater ruins the whole point of the game.

Now the rest of your post is mostly about remorse, forgiveness and ethical competency. Here is my take on it. I believe that Aamir is neither remorseful nor is ethically competent - for the following reasons.

1) He never told us the complete story. If he has, link me to the complete story. He hasn't told us all he knows. He is merely stating that he is sorry for what he did - but he hasn't even told us the full details. I will discuss more about this in point 2

2) Since he hasn't told us the complete story, there is more to his story than is known to the non-criminal world. Thus, the criminals will have access to information that we don't. Thus, even if he is truly remorseful - unless he comes completely clean - he may be forced into crime again.

3) Is there a smallest bit of evidence that he would have come clean in the event that he was not caught?

4) Why did he keep denying his role and claimed conspiracy during the start of the investigation. While he has expressed remorse for his actions regarding spot-fixing; has he expressed remorse for not admitting the truth and attempting to misguide the country? In this age when muslims, and Pakistanis are lead to believe that the whole world is conspiring against us [I am an atheist, but I am sympathetic towards muslims and consider myself half-a-muslim because my mom is a practicing muslim and I know that Islam isn't what the western world projects it to be.]; so in such an age - isn't claiming conspiracy a sin in itself. Where has he expressed remorse for that?

5) This is an important question, that you alone know the answer to. If this wasn't Muhammad Amir, but say Sohail Tanvir that we are talking about - will you still back him to play. Honest to your conscience? What about all the Amir supporters? Also, if you had players of the calibre of Imran Khan, Shoaib Akhtar, Younis and Akram playing RIGHT now, will you still want Amir to be back?

6) Also evaluate Amir's crime in the angle that he match-fixing leads to criminal syndicates acquiring financial benefits.

Most importantly will Amir be able to answer any of these questions?
 
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I wonder how many of the folks who say dont give m Aamir a second chance also said the same about Wasim Akram. I wonder if M.Wasim thinks Wasim Akram should not have played after the match fixing scandal

Had Wasim was not been given another chance, then Md Amir might have never fixed.

Don't get me wrong, Wasim is my 2nd fav bowler after Warne, but him not being banned has resulted in Md Amir committing this crime.

He will be representing your country, YOUR COUNTRY. Not working for some random Software or Manufacturing firm, but REPRESENTING YOUR COUNTRY. An ex con is rehabilitated, but never gets the same life.

Initially, I agreed with Md. Amir getting a chance to play after he finished his ban. But after reading Wasim's point of view, I will have to agree with Md. Wasim
 
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