"I would have disowned my son had he done what Mohammad Amir did": Ramiz Raja

Amir never should have been allowed back in international cricket, there should be zero tolerance for this sort of stuff
 
Amir was very young when this incident occurred. He has completed his sentence for what he done so we must now move on.
I was a child when the spot fixing happened, and even then I knew it was wrong. It's not like he was some 5 year old who was forced at gunpoint to do it.
 
I was a child when the spot fixing happened, and even then I knew it was wrong. It's not like he was some 5 year old who was forced at gunpoint to do it.
fair enough!

but Amir was a player who admitted to spot fixing and acknowledged his mistake while Salman Butt and Asif were still denying their involvement. So there is a sympathy element for him in my mind. At least he accepted his crime and is asking the nation for forgiveness so why shouldnt we?
 
fair enough!

but Amir was a player who admitted to spot fixing and acknowledged his mistake while Salman Butt and Asif were still denying their involvement. So there is a sympathy element for him in my mind. At least he accepted his crime and is asking the nation for forgiveness so why shouldnt we?
He only admitted it went it suited him. When he was definitely getting the ban and jail sentence. Trying to save himself. Was a plea for leniency. He first denied it like the others. Same thing for Butt and Asif, they admitted it when they needed to return to international cricket, as to not serve their extra suspended sentence. Amir didn’t have a suspended sentence. I have also heard Amir’s story that he gave to why he fixed and he was tricked. It sounds rather unbelievable and doesn’t really sound like the truth.

Butt and Asif got a far worse time, serving longer jail times in an actual prison not young offenders. And then not getting the welcome back like Amir when rejoining cricket in terms of leagues and international cricket. Both Asif and Butt would have taken Amir’s punishment gladly. I even read an interview where asif actually sounded the most mature of the lot, accepting his involvement and not making demands.

I don’t really think Amir acted any more honourably than the other two really. Both asif and butt would have likely done the same in Amir’s position.
 
This whole war is silly.

The analogy is simple, if someone commits a crime, then serves their sentence they have a criminal record, but that criminal record doesn't prevent them from applying to a job or even the same job again.

The company can just choose to say that they cannot hire because the person has a criminal record but theirs no law stating they cannot be rehired.

If the company accepts rehirement then the employee with the criminal record by law gets the same treatment.

Amir isn't innocent, he's the employee with a criminal record, but pcb aka the company decided to forgoe it rather then saying no we can't accept you.

Like it or not, he was in the 2017 squad and his spell resulted in Pakistan winning the final as it put India in a collapsed position.
 
This whole war is silly.

The analogy is simple, if someone commits a crime, then serves their sentence they have a criminal record, but that criminal record doesn't prevent them from applying to a job or even the same job again.

The company can just choose to say that they cannot hire because the person has a criminal record but theirs no law stating they cannot be rehired.

If the company accepts rehirement then the employee with the criminal record by law gets the same treatment.

Amir isn't innocent, he's the employee with a criminal record, but pcb aka the company decided to forgoe it rather then saying no we can't accept you.

Like it or not, he was in the 2017 squad and his spell resulted in Pakistan winning the final as it put India in a collapsed position.
But also if you continue your analogy, then Ramiz is just someone who is not employed by the company where Amir was fired/rehired from and he’s giving his opinion on the decisions the company made.
 
But also if you continue your analogy, then Ramiz is just someone who is not employed by the company where Amir was fired/rehired from and he’s giving his opinion on the decisions the company made.
Then he's an outsider who's opinion is irrelevant.

I can complain all I want about mark zuckerberg being a crook for stealing Facebook idea and Steve jobs being a free loader who used and abused wozniack and Rob Wayne to steal and take credit for apple.

It doesn't change reality that their billionaire ceo's who profited off others. So my complaints will fall flat. Same with ramiz, he's an outsider who can hate all he wants doesn't change what happened.
 
Ramiz loosing the plot and over exaggerating as usual.

From a cricketing point of you he s entitled to his opinion however context is always an overriding factor to determine a fair outcome.

Amir was 17 years old kid playing for his country, part of a subcontinent culture where senior players are highly respected and listened to and revered.

With European culture the total opposite.
 
Let’s be serious here - does it matter what Rameez thinks? No. I would never judge my moral compass by comparing it to Rameez raja.

Rambo, be a smart operator and talk about something else
 
There’s a lot of virtue signalling in this thread. Go and fix the whole corrupt country first before commenting on an 18 year old bowling a no ball for some cash. It didn’t stop him taking a 5fer in that same innings.

How is this different to babar and Rizwan playing for their centuries (sometimes at the expense of the team cause) because they may get some Brucie bonus from their sponsors?
 
He only admitted it went it suited him. When he was definitely getting the ban and jail sentence. Trying to save himself. Was a plea for leniency. He first denied it like the others. Same thing for Butt and Asif, they admitted it when they needed to return to international cricket, as to not serve their extra suspended sentence. Amir didn’t have a suspended sentence. I have also heard Amir’s story that he gave to why he fixed and he was tricked. It sounds rather unbelievable and doesn’t really sound like the truth.

Butt and Asif got a far worse time, serving longer jail times in an actual prison not young offenders. And then not getting the welcome back like Amir when rejoining cricket in terms of leagues and international cricket. Both Asif and Butt would have taken Amir’s punishment gladly. I even read an interview where asif actually sounded the most mature of the lot, accepting his involvement and not making demands.

I don’t really think Amir acted any more honourably than the other two really. Both asif and butt would have likely done the same in Amir’s position.
Just the fact that he didn’t stand in court smugly lying through his teeth is more honorable than Butt and Asif. I had to read butt’s delusionally smug testimonies for days - I mean read the room you foolish man. It pretty much confirmed the type of person Butt was. Such a shame, who can forget that constant dhikr repeating kid in the jubilee cup on debut would have that much delusion.

So whatever you say about Amir, he didn’t do any of that.
 
Just the fact that he didn’t stand in court smugly lying through his teeth is more honorable than Butt and Asif. I had to read butt’s delusionally smug testimonies for days - I mean read the room you foolish man. It pretty much confirmed the type of person Butt was. Such a shame, who can forget that constant dhikr repeating kid in the jubilee cup on debut would have that much delusion.

So whatever you say about Amir, he didn’t do any of that.
To add:

And whether you believe he was sincere or not doesn’t really matter. And even then, if he wasn’t sincere, at least he showed a greater awareness and understanding of the situation than the other two fools who were stuck in the age old trick of “if I repeat the same lie a million times it will become the truth eventually”.

Just that greater awareness by Amir says a lot. If he’s sincere then great, if not, smart kid, we need that type of thinking on the pitch too
 
Ramiz loosing the plot and over exaggerating as usual.

From a cricketing point of you he s entitled to his opinion however context is always an overriding factor to determine a fair outcome.

Amir was 17 years old kid playing for his country, part of a subcontinent culture where senior players are highly respected and listened to and revered.

With European culture the total opposite.
I agree with the whole disowning thing. Overboard, he made a mistake.

However European culture would have not let him play again. England would have not let him play again. He benefitted from Pakistani board’s leniency to fixers. We didn’t just let Amir back because of age. We let Sharjeel back too. PCB did it because they were talented.
 
I agree with the whole disowning thing. Overboard, he made a mistake.

However European culture would have not let him play again. England would have not let him play again. He benefitted from Pakistani board’s leniency to fixers. We didn’t just let Amir back because of age. We let Sharjeel back too. PCB did it because they were talented.
That was my point bro.

In European culture he would of been allowed to be his own man and allowed to make his own decisions and therefore wouldn't of been in that position.

Subcontinent culture is the exact opposite.

Sharjeel was a fit up by sethi.

There was no evidence of any spot fixing by sharjeel.

It was a typical kangaroo court which he had to accept in order to keep his career at the time.
 
It's been 8 years since Amir returned to cricket. Everyone has moved on. And its not like anybody cares what Ramiz thinks.
 
Most Pakistanis indulge in corruption/bribery/not paying taxes/fraud etc Many also support well known corrupt politicians but suddenly grow an angels head when it comes to Amir.

He was young , did the crime , did his time & repented inc educating others on dangers of fixing . So was rightly given another chance.

Ramiz is bitter he’s no longer chairman , has such rants now & then . If he’s so morally superior & disgusted seeing convicted players playing , why commentate when they’re playing?

Strange fella
 
Where did I make a comparison? Comparison posts are different.

I explained the Red line for each subject and society. Religion has its own red line, your family has its own red line. A sport also has its own red line.

For Example, if Islam can forgive a person for murder ( if blood money is given ), doesnt mean that a family will still forgive, because for a family, killing his/her child is the red line for that person.

You have no credibility on this subject . How can you support corrupt politicians, defend them but demand no forgiveness for a cricketer who did a crime at 17 years old ?
 
You have no credibility on this subject . How can you support corrupt politicians, defend them but demand no forgiveness for a cricketer who did a crime at 17 years old ?
he was no 17. He was above the age of 19.
Played with a fake birth certificate.
 
Most Pakistanis indulge in corruption/bribery/not paying taxes/fraud etc Many also support well known corrupt politicians but suddenly grow an angels head when it comes to Amir.

He was young , did the crime , did his time & repented inc educating others on dangers of fixing . So was rightly given another chance.

Ramiz is bitter he’s no longer chairman , has such rants now & then . If he’s so morally superior & disgusted seeing convicted players playing , why commentate when they’re playing?

Strange fella
the lengths amir fans go to defend him......
 
That was my point bro.

In European culture he would of been allowed to be his own man and allowed to make his own decisions and therefore wouldn't of been in that position.

Subcontinent culture is the exact opposite.

Sharjeel was a fit up by sethi.

There was no evidence of any spot fixing by sharjeel.

It was a typical kangaroo court which he had to accept in order to keep his career at the time.
Sharjeel himself admitted that he was guilty.

Also, if there is doubt about the legal system of PCB or Pakistan, because this was a sorts fixing ban, he was allowed to go for an appeal to an international spots court in Switzerland.
 
bro Amir doesn't work in a bank

lets look at it in another way, a young adult goes astray and gets involved in a life of crime then gets caught and has been sentenced.. while in prison he regrets his decisions he made as a young adult and reforms, he is now released from prison should he be isolated from the world or should he get a chance to build his life from scratch?
It depends what you call astray.
 
I’m not a fan .

Why the hate of him ? He was 17 , made a serious mistake, did his time. I don’t understand as you spend time on defending corrupt politicians but a 17 year was evil lol
he was not 17, well above 19
 
Show your evidence ?

17-19 ok lol
How age fudging works is something i have discussed at lengths on this forum based on first hand experience i have had at cricket clubs in Rawalpindi.

90% cricketers fake it because they have nothing to lose and have an advantage, the advantage being having no formal education, hence, no date of birth being recorded on your education certificate. Even if someone attains 12 years of education, many are willing to throw it away by getting a reduced aged birth certificate made.

I have met his coach, Bajwa, and he admits he was above the age of 19 when he was caught int he crime.

Asking for evidence is like asking for evidence that Afridi played with his real age or not. Everyone knew the truth before Afridi finally spilled the beans himself.
 
How age fudging works is something i have discussed at lengths on this forum based on first hand experience i have had at cricket clubs in Rawalpindi.

90% cricketers fake it because they have nothing to lose and have an advantage, the advantage being having no formal education, hence, no date of birth being recorded on your education certificate. Even if someone attains 12 years of education, many are willing to throw it away by getting a reduced aged birth certificate made.

I have met his coach, Bajwa, and he admits he was above the age of 19 when he was caught int he crime.

Asking for evidence is like asking for evidence that Afridi played with his real age or not. Everyone knew the truth before Afridi finally spilled the beans himself.

This is conjecture & your word is not evidence . You don’t have any .

Ok answer this . Is Amir’s crime worse than those Pakistani politicians you defend ? I’m trying to understand the level of seriousness you see this compared to your other moral judgments .
 
This is conjecture & your word is not evidence . You don’t have any .

Ok answer this . Is Amir’s crime worse than those Pakistani politicians you defend ? I’m trying to understand the level of seriousness you see this compared to your other moral judgments .
two different cases.

Any pakistan politician that has been involved in treason be it zardar, imran or millitary should see the gallows.
 
Sharjeel was a fit up by sethi.

There was no evidence of any spot fixing by sharjeel.

It was a typical kangaroo court which he had to accept in order to keep his career at the time.

I agree with this. Only the Almighty knows whether he committed the offence he was accused of, but there was no evidence against him whatsoever. In court, MoYo was invited as an expert to give his view on one of the dot balls he played out. His statement was a revealing one, where he mentioned that Sharjeel was attempting to score runs but was unfortunate to have found the fielder. He made it clear that the ball was played on its merits.

When this news broke out, Sethi couldn't hold his big mouth quiet, as per usual. In order to save face, him and the rest of the PCB pressurised this kangaroo court to deliver a guilty verdict.
 
Sharjeel himself admitted that he was guilty.

Also, if there is doubt about the legal system of PCB or Pakistan, because this was a sorts fixing ban, he was allowed to go for an appeal to an international spots court in Switzerland.
I already addressed it in my earlier post he pleaded guilty to continue his career at the time.

Appealing to CAS would of been a longer and costlier process.
 
I agree with this. Only the Almighty knows whether he committed the offence he was accused of, but there was no evidence against him whatsoever. In court, MoYo was invited as an expert to give his view on one of the dot balls he played out. His statement was a revealing one, where he mentioned that Sharjeel was attempting to score runs but was unfortunate to have found the fielder. He made it clear that the ball was played on its merits.

When this news broke out, Sethi couldn't hold his big mouth quiet, as per usual. In order to save face, him and the rest of the PCB pressurised this kangaroo court to deliver a guilty verdict.
Fantastically summarised bro.
 
How age fudging works is something i have discussed at lengths on this forum based on first hand experience i have had at cricket clubs in Rawalpindi.

90% cricketers fake it because they have nothing to lose and have an advantage, the advantage being having no formal education, hence, no date of birth being recorded on your education certificate. Even if someone attains 12 years of education, many are willing to throw it away by getting a reduced aged birth certificate made.

I have met his coach, Bajwa, and he admits he was above the age of 19 when he was caught int he crime.

Asking for evidence is like asking for evidence that Afridi played with his real age or not. Everyone knew the truth before Afridi finally spilled the beans himself.
I found it hilarious when people actually said afridi was 16 on debut.

Like yeah bro, a 5 oclock shadow 5'11, 16 year old with Insane muscle mass. 😂😂.
 
What if Ramiz Raja will become chairman again of PCB :ROFLMAO:

it will become a next level chaos! lol
 
I don't think that RR would have disowned his son. It is easier to say things than to actually do it. What amir did was wrong as hell and he paid for his mistake. Ramiz looks clearly frustrated because amir is back in the team now and he might as well be playing the world cup as well.
 
I already addressed it in my earlier post he pleaded guilty to continue his career at the time.

Appealing to CAS would of been a longer and costlier process.
lol no one pleads guilty for a crime they did not commit. lool
 
In a bank, you are responsible for managing and securing the money of your clients. If you betray your trust in that job then it is reasonable not to allow you to work in the same job again. Cricketers provide entertainment, they are not custodians for people's money. Cant compare a bank employee to a cricketer.
Are you aware of the charge for which Amir went to prison?

"On 1 November 2011, at Southwark Crown Court, Majeed, Asif, Amir and Butt were found guilty of conspiracy to cheat at gambling and conspiracy to accept corrupt payments. Majeed and Amir were convicted following guilty pleas."

Essentially Amir with his actions stole money. That is more than just cricket.
 
I am against fixers in team.

But I am also against losers in team.

Your best 11 should represent you on the pitch.

If that best 11 includes a druggie, fixer and a past cheat, then so be it.

You play to win tournaments.

Not to worry about whether it was legal or not.

The law should be and is separate from trophies.

Those who have an issue with Amir can take him to court.

For Pakistan, he is the best 11 and needs to play.
 
What happened in the past has happened. You cannot punish a match fixer or spot fixer twice. Maybe they should have been handed life bans in the first place. But they weren't, and now they have served the sentence handed to them. Even Ajay Jadeja was banned for 5 years which I believe was a disgrace, although he never came back to the team. All of them should have been banned for life.

What however needs to be done in the future is to ban any cricketer for life who is involved in any form of fixing. To hell with their reputation or how big of a name they are or which country they represent.​
 
Wahab Riaz called Ramiz Raja's remarks on Amir as too harsh:

“Ramiz Raja's remark regarding Mohammad Amir is exceedingly harsh and carries a distinctly negative connotation, yet everyone retains the freedom to voice their opinions,"
 
Real match-fixing in international games happened in 90s but many of the people involved there escaped punishment or even scrutiny. Not just Pakistanis, but also Indians, Australians, South Africans.The Pak trio were pretty dumb to get caught like that.

They didn't just get caught, it was a well planned sting operation. Pakistan had a long history of bad blood with England going back to the 1990s, there was high motivation to bring Pakistan to the book in the country. That's not to excuse any of it, any form of fixing needs to be nipped in the bud, but I doubt the English media would have found as much dividend in going after any of the other countries mentioned there.
 
There was no evidence.

This is Pakistan.

The guilty who should be imprisoned are the mafia running the country.

Are you telling me with a straight face that I K is guilty?
EIther you dont bother to read full posts, or just ignorant on purpose and ignore posts just to suit your own argument.

Any ban in sports can be appealed in the courts of Switzerland which has a special court for sports bannings and judgements given. There is a special appeal that is there in every ban that a player can use and appeal it in a switzerland sports court.

Thus, if Sharjeel had issues with the verdict .

Sharjeel field for an appeal in the Lahore high court and he still lost. He still had one more appeal in the Switzerland court.
Infact, there are 2-3 appeals, where you can also go to an independant adjudicator and than after which you can go to Court of Arbitrition for Sports which is in Switzlernad.

If you dont want to use your appeals and admit to being guiilty than offcourse you are guilty.

This stupid argument of oh this is pakistan, is really getting old.

It was not a domestic issue it was a sports issue.

Anyways, no matter how many times i explain this, you will only believe what you want to.
 
They didn't just get caught, it was a well planned sting operation. Pakistan had a long history of bad blood with England going back to the 1990s, there was high motivation to bring Pakistan to the book in the country. That's not to excuse any of it, any form of fixing needs to be nipped in the bud, but I doubt the English media would have found as much dividend in going after any of the other countries mentioned there.
which basically meant they got caught.

it was not a set up, the Pakistanis indulged in such behaviors themselves and were waiting to get caught.
 
Are you aware of the charge for which Amir went to prison?

"On 1 November 2011, at Southwark Crown Court, Majeed, Asif, Amir and Butt were found guilty of conspiracy to cheat at gambling and conspiracy to accept corrupt payments. Majeed and Amir were convicted following guilty pleas."

Essentially Amir with his actions stole money. That is more than just cricket.
Its sad how alot of these posters have a memory of a goldfish.

I cannot believe how posters who were following the game back than can easily forget the dreadful day, the shame that all of us felt that day..
 
which basically meant they got caught.

it was not a set up, the Pakistanis indulged in such behaviors themselves and were waiting to get caught.

I didn't say it was a set up, it is pretty self evident they indulged in the behaviours themselves, I was responding to the mention of other countries indulging who didn't get caught. I don't know if you just didn't read what I wrote or the post I was responding to but might be worth it to get the context.
 
On the subject of whether Aamir should actually be playing or not I am not really that fussed. He's been playing PSL regularly for a few seasons now, he plays abroad for other teams as well. I don't really know why Rameez is dredging up these concerns now. Unless he really believes that Aamir is going to fix games again, and only when wearing a Pakistan shirt.
 
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, those who were against Amir’s inclusion in the team were more likely chanting “Amir” during the CT17 final, they were probably doing bhangra and aerial firing when he took Kohli’s wicket.

Fast forward 7 years and now they’re upset with a fixer being in the team.
 
EIther you dont bother to read full posts, or just ignorant on purpose and ignore posts just to suit your own argument.

Any ban in sports can be appealed in the courts of Switzerland which has a special court for sports bannings and judgements given. There is a special appeal that is there in every ban that a player can use and appeal it in a switzerland sports court.

Thus, if Sharjeel had issues with the verdict .

Sharjeel field for an appeal in the Lahore high court and he still lost. He still had one more appeal in the Switzerland court.
Infact, there are 2-3 appeals, where you can also go to an independant adjudicator and than after which you can go to Court of Arbitrition for Sports which is in Switzlernad.

If you dont want to use your appeals and admit to being guiilty than offcourse you are guilty.

This stupid argument of oh this is pakistan, is really getting old.

It was not a domestic issue it was a sports issue.

Anyways, no matter how many times i explain this, you will only believe what you want to.
I clearly stated all my points on my first post which you can refer to if you wish to get an answer.

It is fruitless repeating the same thing over and over.
 
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I clearly stated all my points on my first post which you can refer to if you wish to get an answer.

It is fruitless repeating the same thing over and over.
Its seems like you dont know what the word appeal means and what court of arbitration is or means. Infact, you seem to have a hard time understanding that Switzerland is a separate independent country.
 
Can we not bring islam and shirk in this thread. This is a cricket related chat. We have other threads available to discuss islam.
 
EIther you dont bother to read full posts, or just ignorant on purpose and ignore posts just to suit your own argument.

Any ban in sports can be appealed in the courts of Switzerland which has a special court for sports bannings and judgements given. There is a special appeal that is there in every ban that a player can use and appeal it in a switzerland sports court.

Thus, if Sharjeel had issues with the verdict .

Sharjeel field for an appeal in the Lahore high court and he still lost. He still had one more appeal in the Switzerland court.
Infact, there are 2-3 appeals, where you can also go to an independant adjudicator and than after which you can go to Court of Arbitrition for Sports which is in Switzlernad.

If you dont want to use your appeals and admit to being guiilty than offcourse you are guilty.

This stupid argument of oh this is pakistan, is really getting old.

It was not a domestic issue it was a sports issue.

Anyways, no matter how many times i explain this, you will only believe what you want to.
I notice how your swerving my question regarding I K.

If you stand for injustice, you stand for nothing.
 
Best to stick to arguments rather than indulging in personal attacks.
 
Ramiz Raza sahab never spoke about corruption during his time but now holding the flag as he is the only one who is against the tainted cricketers.
 
Fromer PCB Chairman, Ramiz Raja said while talking on his YouTube channel:

"There's experimentation happening here, 'so-called experimentation'. The same players are still involved, just their positions have been changed. Some are put on the bench, while others are given a chance to play."

"It is very important that the Pakistan team focuses on winning right now, rather than giving the excuse that they are testing bench strength. They're trying to assess the skills of some players, which is why they are justifying their below par performance that if we lose the match, please bear with us."
 

Mohammad Amir: Already punished for spot-fixing, please stop bringing it up every time​


Having served five years of suspension and another four years of absence from the international scene, Mohammad Amir is sick and tired of former Pakistani stars time and again bringing up his involvement in the infamous spot-fixing scandal that rocked the cricket world in 2010.

“I have done penance for that big mistake and if you look at my career I was banned from 2010 to 2015 and took retirement from 2020 to 2024 so I have lost nine years but I accept it all as God’s will and I have moved on,” Amir told mediapersons.

Amir, who was only 19 back in 2010, had deliberately over-stepped along with fellow pacer Mohammed Asif at the behest of former skipper Salman Butt and they were all caught in a ‘News of the World’ expose. All three were briefly jailed in UK, where fixing is a crime but were later released.

The ICC banned them for five years between 2010 to 2015. Only Amir made a successful return to international cricket and was the hero of Pakistan’s Champions Trophy triumph over India in 2017 in the UK.

However in 2020, he retired from all forms of international cricket after his differences with erstwhile PCB chief Ramiz Raja came out in the open.

Ramiz and some of the other Pakistani players have been vocal about Pakistan cricket establishment giving him a second chance after his direct involvement in corruption.

He has also faced lot of criticism for being brought out of retirement and directly given entry into Pakistan team without playing domestic cricket.

"There has been a lot of criticism by some people on me and Imad being selected without playing domestic cricket,” he added.

Amir countered the critics by making it clear that PSL is a domestic tournment where he and another comeback man Imad Wasim have regularly played.

“I ask them what is Pakistan’s premier domestic T20 event? The PSL. And both of us (Imad) have played and performed in the PSL besides appearing regularly in other leagues. So what is wrong with selecting us for the T20 format?” Amir said if the selectors had picked them for Tests or ODIs it would have been very wrong.

“I myself have always said players must get experience in domestic first class and other events to be considered for the national team. But in our case we are only playing T20 cricket and our form and fitness is there for all to see.” He also confirmed that former Test captain, Muhammad Hafeez had called up him last year and inquired whether he would consider coming out of his retirement.

“It was nice of him (he was director of Pakistan team) and he said I could still play for Pakistan but I told him that given the uncertainty in the cricket board and team I would prefer to remain out of international cricket.”

 
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