randomone said:
In context of a game, the most serious crimes apart from murder, sexual harassment, intentionally and seriously hurting a player is cheating. Even dacoity is a less serious offense in this context. Because a cheater ruins the whole point of the game.
That is just you opinion and I respect that. But one thing you unintentionally stressed upon is that at the end of the day, it is “just a game” [meanings of simple entertainment] for fans like us.
Of course for the players, as I mentioned in my post above, it is just a profession/job. Their own attitudes and all the controversies (other than fixing) that came out simply prove that.
randomone said:
Now the rest of your post is mostly about remorse, forgiveness and ethical competency.
I had a few other points also, but I don’t see you addressing them. I was hoping you would address my points one by one. Specially the one … involving the country honor and pride into the game of cricket.
randomone said:
Here is my take on it.
I believe that Aamir is neither remorseful nor is ethically competent - for the following reasons.
You believe? Yes, you do have some good questions below but that is huge statement to make based on some assumptions and a lot of unknowns.
randomone said:
1) He never told us the complete story. If he has, link me to the complete story. He hasn't told us all he knows. He is merely stating that he is sorry for what he did - but he hasn't even told us the full details. I will discuss more about this in point 2
We do you think we (the fans) have any right to know the whole story - if there is any?
As you had mentioned in your post above that “Playing for BCCI or PCB or SLC is a privilege and not a right [there Aamir should not come back to the team]”…. so what right (or privilege) do we have to know the details?
When you reply to this point, please keep in mind the employee-employer relationship between Aamir and PCB and not forgetting that we are mere spectators – even in literal sense.
Aamir, Asif Butt affair was NOTHING more than juicy dinner table conversation for the most of the fans. Had Aamir provided the details to the media/fans, it would have done nothing except proved more juicy stuff so we could talk for hours.
Only police, ICC, PCB and other authorities deserve those details…. and not us.
randomone said:
2) Since he hasn't told us the complete story, there is more to his story than is known to the non-criminal world. Thus, the criminals will have access to information that we don't. Thus, even if he is truly remorseful - unless he comes completely clean - he may be forced into crime again.
Three huge assumptions that I see in #2 are:
a) We are assuming that there is, in fact, more to the story.
b) We are assuming that he has given no details to PCB or ICC.
c) We are assuming that he was not trapped by the operation conducted by NOTW via Mazhar Majeed.
d) We are assuming that he was involved with underworld fixing mafia and NOTW was not an isolated incident.
Why he has to "come tell the whole story to be remorseful" for us to believe " he will not repeat the mistake"? I mean, I do not see the connection between "coming clean" and "forced to doing crime".
randomone said:
3) Is there a smallest bit of evidence that he would have come clean in the event that he was not caught?
If I understand your point correctly then shouldn't this apply to all players on the team who have been approached by the bookies and refused
over the years…… or any player who was approached and did agree to fixing. Why all the players be thrown out of the team because they never told us that they were approached …. and they refused or caved in? Unless you are assuming that Aamir, Asif and Butt were the only players who were approached and fixed matches. Are you?
randomone said:
4) Why did he keep denying his role and claimed conspiracy during the start of the investigation
As I mentioned in my earlier post that in the beginning, I am sure he said what he was asked to say by his legal team.
randomone said:
While he has expressed remorse for his actions regarding spot-fixing; has he expressed remorse for not admitting the truth and attempting to misguide the country?
I’ll take this misguidance 1000 time over than the people who are raping the country with their actions – first and foremost people who take bribes, the corrupt politicians and the corrupt government employees!
Again why the big deal about the country?
randomone said:
In this age when muslims, and Pakistanis are lead to believe that the whole world is conspiring against us [I am an atheist, but I am sympathetic towards muslims and consider myself half-a-muslim because my mom is a practicing muslim and I know that Islam isn't what the western world projects it to be.]; so in such an age - isn't claiming conspiracy a sin in itself. Where has he expressed remorse for that?
Had he expressed remorse for “claiming conspiracy”, would you have been OK with his come back? Why or why not?
But then again, wasn't NOTW operation a conspiracy?
randomone said:
5) This is an important question, that you alone know the answer to. If this wasn't Muhammad Amir, but say Sohail Tanvir that we are talking about - will you still back him to play. Honest to your conscience?
Absolutely! I would have welcomed Sohail (or any player) back; given….
a) Player has admitted his mistake/crime.
b) Player has been punished according to the laws of the country.
c) On his return, his selection is based 300% on merit.
Class of a player has nothing to do with it. His selection is a different matter altogether which I hope will be fair and solely based on the form and ability at that time.
Plus .... I don’t believe in death sentence for stealing.
Now can I ask you this. What if Aamir was your brother or son? What if you were in his place? Would your stance be the same?
randomone said:
What about all the Amir supporters? Also, if you had players of the calibre of Imran Khan, Shoaib Akhtar, Younis and Akram playing RIGHT now, will you still want Amir to be back?
I am not Aamir supporter. I am a cricket fan. I kept passionately following cricket even after him. If this thread was about Asif or Salman Butt, I would have been same points. Here is what I said, in post # 75 above.
W63L35 said:
Are we assuming that Aamir will be automatically selected when he comes back? After staying out of the game for 5 years, it would be miracle if he comes back as the same (let alone better) bowler.
Also, are we assuming that the selection will not be based on merit? So, if Aamir does get selected on merit - just like H Gibbs was, then I don't understand the issue here?
randomone said:
6) Also evaluate Amir's crime in the angle that he match-fixing leads to criminal syndicates acquiring financial benefits.
You are right but….. I hate to repeat myself, that are we 100% sure that Aamir had proven links with match-fixing mafia…. and not just trapped by NOTW?
If anything, players (e.g. Wasim Akram) reported in Justice Qayyum’s report HAD links with match-fixing mafia. Did they ever come clean?
randomone said:
Most importantly will Amir be able to answer any of these questions?
Why does Aamir owe us anything; let alone an explanations or answers? What right or privileges do we have as fans (spectators) to know anything?