Not really. Unless there's a solid rationale behind that 20 times figure, for all we know it might be the mother of all underestimates. Rape is underreported even in places like the US (only around 31%) despite it being much easier to report it there compared to Pakistan so I wouldn't be surprised if the corresponding figure for Pakistan are under 5%. We already have a reference with the KPK child abuse figures - 141 reported cases in 2016. It would not be unrealistic to conjecture that those numbers may not even make up 1% of the actual cases if you're familiar with the scale on which child abuse takes place in KPK.
Lets be fair here, you are purely guessing without anything concrete to support your claims. If we can't believe the 20 times number (which actually would sound reasonable to most experts around the world) , then in no way can we consider your 5% or 1% estimate.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/sep/17/pakistan.theobserver
https://tribune.com.pk/story/1420868/panchayat-rajanpur-orders-rape-survivor-killed-sold-off/
https://www.dawn.com/news/1016271
Also keep in mind that a significant share of rape cases go to tribal courts which have ambiguous legal status but their decisions are rarely challenged and often enforced. Earlier this year two 15 year olds were electrocuted to death in Karachi of all places on a tribal court's orders because they were suspected of planning to elope.
I looked at these cases but i am confused. Please, can you, in clear terms tell me whether Pakistani Law asks women to produce 4 witnesses to prove they were raped. Yes Or No?
About the tribal panchayats, that has very little to do with religion and more with culture of this region. Its the same in India as i mentioned earlier. What matters is how much autonomy the state gives them to handle matters. Generally in India, these panchayats are given limited autonomy to deal with civil matters only. Even then they pronounce ghastly punishments and get away with impunity.
I have lived in four other countries so I have some frame of reference.
Thats not convincing enough. Today a 15 yo kid in india was raped and killed. I can bet you didnt hear about it. I hear about it every other day and not once did i hear about such events in Pakistan before Zainab's case. And trust me i follow Pakistani news very closely.
I did not say that religion alone is the main reason, I said it is one of the main reasons and I still stand by it. If you systematically deprive 211 million people the right to engage in sexual activity prior to marriage (for men, that can be a gap of up to 10 years or more between reaching sexual maturity and getting married), you will create a situation where you have need just 0.01% of them to act out this way, something that is not at all implausible, to have 6000 or more such people out there.
You called religion THE MAIN REASON out of other lesser reasons. The rest of it is pure guess work. You are trying to establish a cause and effect relationship purely based on your imagination with no research or facts or stats to back your hypothesis. "If we starve people of sex, it will result in them sexually attacking kids". This is your hypothesis which has no foundation. What about the people in open societies who dont get to have sex because they are ugly, fat or poor or not attractive generally? Do they turn into sexual predators too because they are sex starved?
That's four cases from three different countries including one from 1986. I already said that such exceptions exist elsewhere but nowhere has it attained epidemic proportions like it has in Pakistan. We have had as many cases in the last one week alone.
Well what did you expect? Obviously these are individual cases which i quoted after a simple google search. I already said there are no child rape and murder stats available so we rely solely on digging up individual cases. You cant expect me to quote a 1000 cases individually. Its very convenient of you call these "exceptions" and call your claims the "epidemic" with literally no data to back it up.
And i was refuting your claim where you clearly said there are no precedents of paedophiles killing their victims because they dont operate like that. From your post : "Nowhere in the world is there precedent for pedophiles operating in this manner." Period. Thats what you said.
Like I said, I have lived in four other countries and keep up with what's going on elsewhere. Nowhere are we seeing minors being raped, killed and their bodies dumped twice a week.
Already touched this.
What I said was that child marriage is more prevalent in parts of the subcontinent with a higher Muslim population. That is statistically true with child marriage rates in India standing at 7% compared to 50% in Pakistan.
Actually again, thats not what you said. You werent talking about child marriages so its pointless to quote child marriage stats. Let me remind you what you said :
"The closest culture to Pakistan's in this regard is India and that is another hub of sexual violence. That children don't get targeted there as much as in Pakistan reflects the religious differences between the two countries, Pakistan being one where children are viewed as legitimate sexual objects on account of the religious makeup of Pakistan's population."
One more point is noteworthy here. See how you reject Pakistan's statistics on anything unless it suits what you are saying (the 7% and 50% stat which you accept to be true).
Now the onus is on you now to provide statistics which prove sexual offencez to be higher in Muslim parts of the subcontinent as compared to non-muslim ones.
So? That's just whataboutism. Other places having discriminatory laws does not mean Pakistan doing so is justified. As far as implementing the law is concerned, the opposition to that comes most often from a body that actually has the authority to vet laws for being Islamic enough before they're passed. A lot of the matters also end up being settled by tribal courts and panchayats with the collusion of law enforcement agencies.
I didnt say 2 wrongs make a right. I said those societies with taboos handle problems by implementing laws strongly.
Is marriage age not fixed at 18 in Pakistan by law? Is it not a law and order problem then if child marriage takes place? Is child rape not an offence according to the Laws of "Islamic" state of Pakistan? If yes, isnt it a law and order problem if it happens?
Pakistan's statistics are worthless since the vast majority of cases in Pakistan are unreported and it's not uncommon for police to refuse to register a case even when someone tries to.
Already touched.
Sexual offences against children may not be accepted but the same society also suppresses discussion on the factors that lead to this particular kind of offence taking on such epic proportions in Pakistan because that, as I keep saying, involves asking uncomfortable questions about the religious and cultural norms of society which undoubtedly contribute to such cases.
Thats a different discussion. It would lead us to topics like poor education of masses in general and a conservative culture which doesnt allow us to ask questions openly. Yes this is a big problem too but lets get back to the main point that society doesnt accept sexual offences like rape against children notwithstanding child marriage to be a sexual offence against children (which in actuality it is)
If it deems them legally marriagable, by default it deems them as sexual object. If religion allows it, there will always be people who do it and especially in a place like Pakistan where it has become part of the culture (which, in turn, is heavily influenced by religion).
Thats a very shallow view of marriage you have there. Marriage in Islam isnt solely about sex. Religion allows it but doesnt force people to do it. On the other hand, The law doesnt allow it. The state should use its coercive power to implement laws IT has made.
Even if we assume what you say about people misusing religion is true, religion still deserves the blame for sanctioning such behavior. Many religions are conveniently ambiguous on such things in a manner that you can reasonably interpret them to justify acts of evil.
You mean religion is to be blamed for child marriage? Yes i would agree with it. Along with culture and tradition, religion has also played a big role in it. Having said that, Interpretations of individuals dont matter at all when a law has been placed by the state. Like i said in another post, this particular problem stems from religion but exists because established laws arent implemented strongly enough by the state.
