street cricketer
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How?
More points for away victories? Then how do you differentiate an away series win in the Caribbean vs an away series win in Australia or England?
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If you had to pick one out of WTC Final win or England series win: what would you choose?
- Thread starter Bhaag Viru Bhaag
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How?
More points for away victories? Then how do you differentiate an away series win in the Caribbean vs an away series win in Australia or England?
Aman
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Away series wins should be worth more, maybe break it up by ranking of teams at the start of the WTC and have teams play a fair schedule (equal amount of games against top 3 opponents and bottom tier opponents) where they can earn an equal amount of points in the end. Seems improbable though since the big 3 want to play each other as often as they can.
The big 3 will complain about other teams sneaking in, but they want to play each other more because of the $$$ so they can't really complain if another team sneaks in because they don't play the big 3 as much as they do.
So can't do much unless the big 3 want to play ball and sacrifice some money to win a WTC.
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Spoke like a typical sour grape Pakistani.
This NZ team would get eaten alive in Aus with Smith, Warner, Cummins, Starc and co, it would not even be close. Lets not even talk about your country Pakistan which just looks like Bangladesh when they tour Aus.
So we have done bad recently in ENG, but we have won more test series in ENG from the 80s till now than ENG have won in India..
We won a series not too long ago in NZ where we trashed them in test and ODIs but has NZ even won a test series in India ever ? Not that I can think off.
South Africa has been the one true Achilles heel as Indians have never won a test series there.
I seriously hope for your sake that India loses the test series in ENG coming up, otherwise it will be down right embarrassing like your Rohail Ahmed or Nazir, I cant think of this ATG batsmen's name which you comparison to Pant.
I hope India loses in ENG, so Kohli is done as dusted as Captain, he is just pathetic, his behavior on field, batting, and stupid captaincy..
You have a lot to say for yourself about this considering the following results in the same place the same summer, in 2018:
England 1 Pakistan 1
England 4 India 1
India had their chance as a Test team and they just blew it. Kohli has had so many defeats overseas that this one doesn’t even seem to be embarrassing.
street cricketer
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I like your idea of a fixed number of matches against top tier and bottom tier opponents. But I do would want the final to be a best of 3 affair. A one off final simply isn't right to decide the winner of a test championship. Otherwise we can also have one off matches between teams in group stages instead of 3 match series and finish the championship quicker. If it's good enough to decide the winner of a championship, it's also good enough to decide points in the group stages, no?
Romali_rotti
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You seem confused, did I deny India did bad in ENG recently ? My posts put things into perspective;
- NZ would get eaten alive in Aus, till they prove me wrong, I stand by this statement,
- India has more test series wins in ENG over the last 40 years than Eng have in India,
- NZ was beaten in both test and ODI in NZ by India not so long ago, but NZ has yet to win a test series in India.
- Only South Africa is the final frontier as far as the Indians go.
NZ played well and deserved to win, Kohli was pathetic as USUAL, however Indians had zero match practice while NZ was tested and ready, however that is no excuse a champion side like the WI of the 80s and Aus of the late 90s to mid 2000s would have won regardless of having match practice or not.
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silentkiller187
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Dont worry they are both irrelevant , India will win the IPL 
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Inaccurate.
India has won two series in England over the last 40 years: 1986 and 2007
England has won two series in India over that period: 1984/85 and 2012/13
So it's pretty even.
Romali_rotti
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Thank you, my mistake.
Evens but
Per Junaids, India cant play on seam/swing conditions, but Ind has 2 series win in ENG...
BunnyRabbit
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England got thrashed by WI in WI not long ago. Their team is in transition and their batting lineup is at the weakest it's been for over a decade. Great opportunity for India to win in England.
May be, you can't be sure about anything.
However how can you decide on someone's behalf what should be of greater importance for him/her?
We'll still find a way to lose the series especially with Kohli at helm. Last time Sam Curran was elevated to hero status, this time it'd be someone else.
I think it will be tight series India might e slight favorites
Bhaag Viru Bhaag
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As usual some fans are trying too hard to downplay the importance of WTC final because we couldn't win it. 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag
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Dont worry they are both irrelevant , India will win the IPL
That is always the safest choice in the end for some fans.
street cricketer
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As usual some fans are trying too hard to downplay the importance of WTC final because we couldn't win it.
Erm..This is what I said before the final.
Why create a thread asking a question if you don't want an another answer.
Bhaag Viru Bhaag
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Yeah you said it before the final but I was talking about those who commented after the final.
RexRex
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I would pick a win in the 5 test series vs Eng over the WTC final. There's something about a one-off test that doesn't quite sit right with me.
BunnyRabbit
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Third time might be the charm. In 2018, Kohli and Shastri were adamant and cancelled their warm ups for "intense training sessions", something that backfired massively. This time around they have already played a Test.
I heard we'll be playing 2 intra squad games at Durham. There you go!
No hope from this series as well.
I won't swap our last series win in Australia with win in WTC final.
That win was absolutely fantastic, the one for ages, close enough in stature and effort with our series win against an ATG Australian side in '01.
Doesn't mean that wining WTC final is no big deal, it is, but not as big as winning full test series in England, SA or Australia or NZ.
That win was absolutely fantastic, the one for ages, close enough in stature and effort with our series win against an ATG Australian side in '01.
Doesn't mean that wining WTC final is no big deal, it is, but not as big as winning full test series in England, SA or Australia or NZ.
IMMY69
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There is always an excuse from some Indian fans.
One Indian fan still calls the CT17 win a fluke.
One Indian fan still calls the CT17 win a fluke.
Ab Fan
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Aman
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You hold your Border-Gavaskar Trophy, the mace is good with us.
Perfect scenario, no? I won't trade anything for a test series win in Australia except for ODI WC win.
Hitman
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I won't even trade 3 ODI World Cup victories with our win in the last Test series in Australia.
Aman
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I would take 3 WC wins over a series win in Aus. I would take a WC over a series win in Aus.
Some real inferiority complex seeping in from some Indian fans.
You don't see Basketball fans trading a series win against so and so for a NBA title.
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Aman
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I would take a WC over a series win in Aus, you basically play Aus every other year. A WC is played every 4 years with multiple teams and much more difficult to win.
All you need is a poor generation of players or injuries to win a series in a country like Aus, Eng or India.
All you need is a poor generation of players or injuries to win a series in a country like Aus, Eng or India.
Hitman
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That's how I feel. Fine if you want to label it inferiority complex.
Aman
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Inferiority complex is clouding people's judgements here. Wins over the angreez lol. No one in their right mind would trade a series win (against a team you play basically once a year) for a god damn world title that gives you the right to be called WORLD CHAMPION.
Hitman
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We have won 2 World Cups, but until 2 years ago we didn't win a series in Australia. I'm pretty sure there'll be a lot of my fellow Indian posters who would value our last series victory in Australia against a full strength team over a World Cup victory.
Aman
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We've never won a series in India, I would take an ODI WC over 3 or 4 series wins in India.
No way would you really do it, what Kapil Dev and Dhoni did is something Indians will never forget and its written into their history as the most significant events in their sporting history. The Test series wins in Aus do not compare and you know it.
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Hitman
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That's your choice, I respect that. But that's because you haven't won a World Cup yet (no disrespect). If you would have won 2 World Cups, maybe you too would have valued a Test series victory in India over another World Cup victory.
Aman
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Would you exchange the Aus series for the 86 WC or 2011? No, you wouldn't.
You're underestimating the significance and impact of a world title has on a country and overrating the value of an overseas win.
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Hitman
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Not 86', but 83'. There was no WC held in 86'.
Aman
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Point stands.
England will be tougher to beat with Stokes, Woakes and Buttler back in the side. But really, that top 6 of theirs is not international standard (even Root only averages 33 in England since 2018). And given that the pitches are likely to be dry and flat to help England prep for the Ashes, I really think India should win this (my guess is 3-1).
Lol, so now you'll decide what we want to win!
WTC victory has gone into his head, that's why all this blabbering and starting multiple threads to brag about winning a sole test over winning a full test series in most difficult places to tour or even an ODI WC.
Hell no! We'll be lucky to win even a single test in the series.
For me below is the priority order:
1) ODI world cup win
2) Test series win in Eng/Aus
3) T20 WC Win
4) WTC Win
5) Test series win in SA/NZ
6) Home tests/WI series
7) Asia Cup
8) Away LOI bilateral series
9) IPL
10) Home LOI bilateral series
1) ODI world cup win
2) Test series win in Eng/Aus
3) T20 WC Win
4) WTC Win
5) Test series win in SA/NZ
6) Home tests/WI series
7) Asia Cup
8) Away LOI bilateral series
9) IPL
10) Home LOI bilateral series
Hitman
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I feel the same. It was a huge achievement, I'll agree. But there are achievements in Test cricket bigger than that. Winning a Test series in India is an absolute dream for every team.
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Aman
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Yes, winning the most important Test match to date and being crowned world champions is less important than winning a series in India
Hitman
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You are entitled to your opinion. But please don't try to ram your opinion down our throats. We are all entitled to our opinions.
Aman
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You're entitled to yours but this sounds like sour grapes especially given the meltdown of Indian fans on social media.
Same players who were being hailed heroes after "achieving the pinnacle" less than a year ago are now being memed and abused.
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Aman
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You just know if India had won they would be pushing GOAT team or GOAT cricket country chants from these same fans.
street cricketer
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And those who did would barely have any knowledge about test cricket if they did so.
How would India become the GOAT team just because it won an one off match, but consistently losing in England. This is not the first time the mace has been presented in Test cricket. Teams used to be presented with the mace at the end of every calendar year in the past. Only now they have arranged a match to give that. But nobody cared about who got the mace in the past as those who really followed test cricket knew who the best test teams were based on their respective away records. The same Indian team has got multiple maces with only winning in the subcontinent, Sri Lanka and West Indies.
And India wouldn't even be the GOAT Indian team, never mind the overall GOAT team which would just be a sad joke just because India won a one off match but having never won a test series (yes bilateral) in England, SA and NZ. Like it or not, test cricket has always been about "bilateral" series since its inception in the late 1800s and it isn't going to change just because the ICC organises a one off match to give away the mace, which they used to do it regularly in the past anyway. In Test cricket, the quality of your team is determined only by in how many countries you win and how many conditions you master. The great Australian and West Indian teams are considered the GOAT test teams because they won everywhere they went.
Hitman
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Like MP2011 said, winning the WTC has got to your head. Enjoy it, I won't try to demean it because it's a big, big achievement. But there are bigger achievements than that for other teams.
Not anyway bigger achievement than say
them winning a test series in Australia or India or SA. When was the last time they won a series in these countries or even a test?
As they say choti choti khushiyan!
Aman
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Yeah, and I wouldn't exchange a WTC for any of them
Cherish your Test series win, while we enjoy our World Championship and immortality.
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Savak
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That WTC final loss to NZ was unfortunate, NZ had the advantage of having played a full fledged series in England whereas India was under cooked. Indias bowling attack is better and is an all conditions bowling attack
dont cry. NZ are better than India. They proved it.
RedwoodOriginal
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Or...(and this is just a thought) New Zealand are better?
Maybe NZ are better in English and NZ conditions. Certainly not better in the rest of the world.
Besides being underprepared, the team India selected was quite awful. Bhuvaneshwar and Thakur should have been in the team.
Savak
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Not on flat wickets. NZ too have a Green top dependent attack like England
Yes, india came to the wtc final with no practice. Indian seamers can exploit reverse swing better than anyone else
Nikhil_cric
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They have a better attack for flat wickets than England.
RedwoodOriginal
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India whitewashed New Zealand at home. New Zealand whitewashed India at home. When both played at a neutral venue, New Zealand won. Therefore, New Zealand are the better side for now. Doesn't get any simpler than that.
RedwoodOriginal
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Yeah well unfortunately India and New Zealand can't play a test match in every country to decide who is unequivocally the better side. India beat New Zealand at home, New Zealand beat India at their home. And when both played a neutral venue New Zealand came out on top. Therefore, New Zealand is the better side. Atleast until the next time both play at a neutral venue. Or until India win in New Zealand again.
Lack of preparation and selection are India's fault. And talking in hypotheticals is an absolutely pointless thing to do.
jnaveen1980
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Neutral is not exactly neutral lol cloudy swinging conditions is not neutral. Anyway i back India beat NZ even in such conditions once they toss out Kohli's buddies in the middle order.
WengerOut
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NZ playing against Ind in Eng is advantage NZ. Similar to what could happen with India if they both play in SL, Ban or UAE
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In an Ind-NZ contest, Eng is as neutral as Dhaka or Colombo. NZ toured Aus in 2019-20, India in 2020-21. We saw how both teams adjusted to different conditions from home.
Mesozoic
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I'm 100% sure you wouldn't have said this if the "neutral" venue was Dubai or Colombo or Dhaka.
RedwoodOriginal
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Oh my bad. I didn't know England was a colony of New Zealand.
RedwoodOriginal
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Too bad hypothetical arguments have no bearing in the real world.
RedwoodOriginal
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Regardless of what you may say, you both have done nothing to dispute the basic facts I presented in my comment.
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New Zealand got badly trashed in Australia where India won the series.
It is not that simple
The basic fact is that you called England a “neutral” venue. Others disagree with you, pointing out that the weather and pitches in England and NZ are very similar.
sensible-indian-fan
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Isolated facts dont necessarily equate to truth.
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England's bowling attack has been exposed on non green wickets.
RedwoodOriginal
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Others can disagree with me all they want, but what they are saying is infact factually incorrect.
Whereas, what I am saying in factually correct. Unless ofcourse England is a colony of New Zealand. That would certainly be news to me.
RedwoodOriginal
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It isn't. And if you bothered to read my statement more carefully you would know that I didn't say NZ was unequivocally the better side. I said at present New Zealand is the better side on account of how they have done everywhere besides Australia, on account of how badly they thrashed India at home, on account of them beating India at a neutral venue and lifting the ICC World Test Championship and on account of them being the No.1 ranked test side in the world.
If they were lucky enough to get 4-5 match test series on a regular basis like India does, who knows what more they would accomplish.
RedwoodOriginal
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How so? Truth as defined as the quality or state of being true. Are you saying that New Zealand didn't beat India at a neutral venue to lift the WTC?
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Neutral venue is a stretch in this case. And i would have loved to see your stance if India had won the WTC final in SL after playing a full series there or if Pakistan was playing the WTC final in England under similar circumstances.
RedwoodOriginal
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Not really. And y'all can keep repeating the same things over and over again. But nothing changes the basic fact that England is a neutral venue for both New Zealand and India.
NZ would have been miserable failures had they met India at any venue which is not in NZ or England!
NZ would have still lost it had they played in Oval or Lords!
Aman
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The world doesn't work on would haves.
You've been humbled in so many ICC events and still the excuses.
Accept you were beaten by a better team and move on instead of trying to justify your past failures.
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Aman
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I've lost count.
SL, Aus, Pakistan, us x 2?
What's the excuse for this year's T20 and the WC in 2023? Already got those excuses lined it up?
Bottom line is this Indian don't have it in them to be world champions.
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