Imran Khan warms to Pakistan's military. His political fortunes rise.

[Varun]

LAHORE, Pakistan: Imran Khan, the charismatic cricket star-turned-opposition-leader, is brimming with newfound confidence.

With general elections expected in July, Khan made a spirited claim to lead the next government when he addressed thousands of his supporters who had gathered in the politically important city of Lahore a week ago. The rally kicked off the election season, and other political parties have begun campaigning around the country.

Khan — a populist whose nationalist appeal rests in part on an anti-American platform — is the main challenger to the political party of former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, who was ousted last year by the Supreme Court after a corruption inquiry. Sharif was barred from holding public office, and he faces a verdict next month on corruption charges.

With Sharif looking at possible jail time, and several leaders of his party, the Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz, ensnared in corruption investigations, Khan says his time has arrived. He presents himself as an alternative to what he calls a corrupt political elite, and says he will work to improve education, health and the environment.

His prospects have brightened in light of his warming ties with the military, which controls the main levers of power in Pakistan and has dominated foreign and security policies for decades. Sharif’s efforts to assert civilian control over the military during his last term failed, turning him into an intensely hated figure among the military establishment.

Khan, on the other hand, has no qualms about working with the military.

“I think a democratic government rules from moral authority,” Khan said in an interview at a party office in Lahore. “And if you don’t have moral authority, then those who have the physical authority assert themselves. In my opinion, it is the Pakistan army and not an enemy army. I will carry the army with me.”
In recent months, the army chief, Gen. Qamar Javed Bajwa, has increased his clout, while dissenting voices in the country have come under greater pressure and restrictions on the media have increased.

Sharif has accused the army and judiciary of working together to have him removed from office, depriving his party of a level playing field in the general elections. Both the military and the judiciary deny the allegations, which Sharif repeated last week at a rally in Punjab province.

In the coming election, the Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz party “will be up against forces that cannot be seen,” Sharif said, in a veiled reference to the military’s intelligence agencies.

Hasan Askari Rizvi, an analyst based in Lahore, said Khan’s political stock has risen as his relationship with the military has gotten closer.

“Imran has realized that if you want to run Pakistan, you have to work with the military because of the internal and external challenges,” Rizvi said. “By fighting with the military, you cannot run the state.”

Those relations have improved despite Khan’s long opposition to the military’s operations against Taliban insurgents in the tribal regions bordering Afghanistan and its cooperation with the United States.

“I hear all this stuff about how the army is influential in Pakistan. The army depends on one man. Whoever is the army chief, the army policy goes the way of the army chief,” Khan said in the interview.

Khan then praised Bajwa.

It’s the first time that I am seeing an army chief saying time and again that ‘I will ensure free and fair elections,’ which is the one thing that we want. That’s all I want. This is music to our ears.”

Khan blames what he callsthe corrupt and inept civilian leadership of the past for the imbalance in civilian and military relations. He is also critical of neighboring India and Afghanistan, saying their hostility toward Pakistan forces the military to play an outsize role in the country.

With adversarial neighbors, “clearly, the military will have a bigger say in the security policy,” he said. “But I don’t blame the army. I blame the most corrupt governments whose main concern has only been making corrupt money and protecting the corrupt money. They could easily have taken a more assertive role in foreign policy.”

He added: “I have very clear foreign policy objectives, and where there are security concerns of the army, we will address them. We will sit down. It is our army.”

Khan has been a bitter critic of the United States, and in recent years, the Pakistan military has also veered away from its traditionally close ties with the United States, looking toward China and Russia.

Critics say Khan is pandering to the military.

Maryam Nawaz, the daughter and political heir apparent of the ousted prime minister, goes as far as calling Khan a “stooge” and “pawn” of the military and its intelligence agencies. Khan dismisses such criticism.

In the last elections, in 2013, Khan’s party won 33 of the 342 seats in the National Assembly. But he remained the key opposition figure, keeping Sharif off balance through a mix of street agitation and court petitions, which finally led to Sharif’s dismissal last July.

“I think we should take Imran Khan much more seriously this time,” said Zaigham Khan, a political analyst and newspaper columnist. “He is not alone.”

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...itical-fortunes-rise/articleshow/64067782.cms

What do posters here make of this article?

 

[Asim_khan]

This article is written by a guy called Salman Masood, NYT correspondent, he was leading the charge against Imran Khan about 6 months ago, not too dissimilar to that bald headed uk correspondent for GEO or Talhat, or that other bald head guy on twitter (common theme here hmmm) yet about a month ago I saw that Imran Khan gave him a sit down interview during which Salman had that kashkol/beggar bowl face made during it, and since then although still anti IK, he's tempered down his criticisms and brought it more in line with foreign anti IK (sleights like anti American) rather than straight up Noora nonsence.

On the Article itself, he seems to have a bone to pick with the Army, rather than the fact IK's popularity is due to him being seen as incorruptable and trutworthy by the common.

 

[the Great Khan]

the western narrative: The army controls everything in Pakistan and so its not a real democracy. To have a real democracy you need to give all power over to the civilians even if their corrupt traitors because then our interests will be easily met. What are our interests: denuclearisation of the country, destroy CPEC and make it subservient to India, control any trade routes coming or going from it, subjugate its population through loans ,famine, cheap labour etc..

The Indian narrative: Army controls everything, ISI controls everything, They hate us, they are terrorists controled by the army, the army has nukes, the army controls the roads and everything else. Pakistanis are brainwashed and we need to enlighten them by getting rid of their army so we can end the 1000 years war once and for all..etc etc etc..add in some of the narrative from above and wala..their not really a democracy because well their Pakistanis and their a bit rough and most are criminals or terrorists and everything in Pakistan is just rough and violent and and...


according to the west the only way you can get elected in pakistan is if General sahib signs on a piece of paper..its insulting and downright racist..

 

[yasir]

Pakistan is always about men in boots, Khan Saab has been matching on the tune of those boots for sometime now, unfortunately when IK starts 25 years ago and now, he is looking more and more like a politician that Army likes.

He is marching the same path as Benazir, who was promising and revolutionary, realizing early on that without making deal with Army she has no future, that was one of the main bone of contention between her and his brother Murtaza... She end up filling PPP with lotas of Muslim League to a point there was no ideology left, it was just crooked lotas, many of them with ties to army. PTI is becoming the PPP of 1990s now, it does not matter who is on the top, foundation is weak.

 

[Napa]

What are our interests: denuclearisation of the country, destroy CPEC and make it subservient to India, control any trade routes coming or going from it, subjugate its population through loans ,famine, cheap labour etc..

It is in your interest that your economy develops and it will not happen unless you get your Army out of the economy. About 25 years ago Pakistan was still ahead of India economically. Then India started getting government bureaucrats out of the economy. Today:

India per cap ppp GDP $7,2500. Pakistan $5,400 (if you look at Indian states similar to Pakistan like Punjab, Delhi and Haryana, the contrast is even greater)
India forex reserves $430 billion. Pakistan $15 billion
India $ exchange rate Rs. 66 / $1. Pakistan Rs 120 / $1

India has in the last 25 years developed modern industries like pharma, software, auto production, petrochemicals etc. Pakistan almost zero in comparison.

This may sound harsh, but the fact is that only Pakistanis can make Pakistan better. If you don't realize that your Army is holding you back, you will never get anywhere.

He is marching the same path as Benazir, who was promising and revolutionary, realizing early on that without making deal with Army she has no future, that was one of the main bone of contention between her and his brother Murtaza... She end up filling PPP with lotas of Muslim League to a point there was no ideology left, it was just crooked lotas, many of them with ties to army. PTI is becoming the PPP of 1990s now, it does not matter who is on the top, foundation is weak.

Yes, the Army corrupts the political process. Not to say that the politicians are saintly, but they are made even worse due to the Army's influence.

 

[GBK_Fan]

Always entertaining to see people who believe every conspiracy under the sun when it comes to the west, be it 9/11, osama, Syria, Libya or whatever, cry racism when someone posts a not so flattering article about the army.

 

[Mian]

one week ago Khan himself said Elements within Pak Army Helped Nawaz Sharif In 2013 Poll so now you are telling me to give more value to these analysts than his own statements when he was bashed 3 days nonstop by PMLN and others for saying Army was involved in rigging 2013 elections.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Always entertaining to see people who believe every conspiracy under the sun when it comes to the west, be it 9/11, osama, Syria, Libya or whatever, cry racism when someone posts a not so flattering article about the army.

If you like conspiracy theories you must love the ones which apparently got an American president elected and the same shady Russians are now behind the campaign to take Jeremy Corbyn to Downing Street in the UK.

 

[Saeed]

Ignoring Mr. Sharif’s usual tirade, it makes sense since military is the most powerful entity in the country. Whoever wants to rise to a position of power will have to work with the military. But downside is that how will PTI deal with the army chief if his views/policies differ from those of PTI’s, especially the foreign policy? For example if army chief tells Imran Khan that he supports drone strikes in FATA, what is Imran khan going to do about it?

 

[GBK_Fan]

If you like conspiracy theories you must love the ones which apparently got an American president elected and the same shady Russians are now behind the campaign to take Jeremy Corbyn to Downing Street in the UK.

Learning from the experts here, I firmly believe JC is being backed by the Russians. It’s only coincidental that it matches my political position

 

[Syed1]

Dumb uninformed western journalists at it again.

 

[the Great Khan]

It is in your interest that your economy develops and it will not happen unless you get your Army out of the economy. About 25 years ago Pakistan was still ahead of India economically. Then India started getting government bureaucrats out of the economy. Today:

India per cap ppp GDP $7,2500. Pakistan $5,400 (if you look at Indian states similar to Pakistan like Punjab, Delhi and Haryana, the contrast is even greater)
India forex reserves $430 billion. Pakistan $15 billion
India $ exchange rate Rs. 66 / $1. Pakistan Rs 120 / $1

India has in the last 25 years developed modern industries like pharma, software, auto production, petrochemicals etc. Pakistan almost zero in comparison.

This may sound harsh, but the fact is that only Pakistanis can make Pakistan better. If you don't realize that your Army is holding you back, you will never get anywhere.



Yes, the Army corrupts the political process. Not to say that the politicians are saintly, but they are made even worse due to the Army's influence.

I disagree to an extant. Our politicians have had ample time and space to increase the capacity of the economy. The army wants a strong economy but they are not economists. That is the job of the politicians. The economy is not run by the army. budgets are not set by the army. By and large in the last ten years the army has done what it can in the budget it was allocated.

The politicians have failed in the job they were supposed to do. There are also other factors to take into account e.g. the afghan war and the war on terror. india hasnt had to fight a war on its own soil yet. We have just finished fighting one. It is the politicians job to increase and reform the police, the education system, the health system. Has the army stopped nawaz sharif from developing a world class healths ervice in punjab in 33 years? no..and thats just one small example..The army is not responsible for all of the ills in pakistani society and Indians need to get this out of their heads..its responsible yes, but the politicians have failed to do anything of note..

 

[the Great Khan]

Ignoring Mr. Sharif’s usual tirade, it makes sense since military is the most powerful entity in the country. Whoever wants to rise to a position of power will have to work with the military. But downside is that how will PTI deal with the army chief if his views/policies differ from those of PTI’s, especially the foreign policy? For example if army chief tells Imran Khan that he supports drone strikes in FATA, what is Imran khan going to do about it?

The army is more neutral now than it has ever been. there are certain redlines that politicians cannot cross..everything else is fine...Drones are protected by American soft power. And they cant fly over paksitani airspace as easily as they used to. Most drone attacks are from within afghanistan and decreasing as the taliban shift operations to afghanistan. The majority of their strike groups are now in afghanistan..it makes logistical sense and the US is fighting them there..

IK will negotiate with all senior stakeholders and come up with a policy through consensus like a normal politician. Some decisions we will not like but many we will..Indians and others should not expect IK to come in neuter the army and set things up for a future Syria like situation (their ultimate dream)

 

[Napa]

Our politicians have had ample time and space to increase the capacity of the economy.

No, they don't. Also politicians do not create an economy. Politicians create a legal and security infrastructure in which entrepreneurs create firms that lead to economic development.

The army wants a strong economy but they are not economists.

If they are not economists, then they should get out of the economy. Read this Washington Post article about the Pakistani Army's domination of the economy.

https://www.pressreader.com/usa/the-washington-post/20070627/281797099580984

That is the job of the politicians. The economy is not run by the army. budgets are not set by the army. By and large in the last ten years the army has done what it can in the budget it was allocated.

If Pakistan wants foreign investment (the sort India has received in the form of IBM, Accenture etc. having the majority of their workers in India) then it has to provide security. To provide security you need to curb the jihadis. But the jihadis are a tool for the Army to keep fighting India. And they need to keep fighting India because otherwise within Pakistan they will become irrelevant.

The politicians have failed in the job they were supposed to do.

Politicians represent the people. You can't say that "the people have failed, so we need dictators instead".

There are also other factors to take into account e.g. the afghan war and the war on terror. india hasnt had to fight a war on its own soil yet. We have just finished fighting one. It is the politicians job to increase and reform the police, the education system, the health system. Has the army stopped nawaz sharif from developing a world class healths ervice in punjab in 33 years? no..and thats just one small example. <b>The army is not responsible for all of the ills in pakistani society and Indians need to get this out of their heads..its responsible yes, but the politicians have failed to do anything of note..</b>

It is just a bit of friendly advice. You can see for yourself what the situation is, and how India's and Pakistan's development paths are diverging. What Indians think about Pakistan and what is in their "heads" is of little consequence, you have to fix your country yourself.

 

[khanz141]

What is wrong with praising the army and saying he will carry the army along with him, not ignore them?

It is Pakistan's army, not some enemy's army. IK should take care of the army and listen to what they have to contribute. They are putting their heard out on the enemy lines for this country. Army is probably the best institution in the country which is the most organized. They have had, should have, and will always have a huge role in the country because without them the country is nothing.

 

[Napa]

They are putting their heard out on the enemy lines for this country.

This is exactly how the Army wants Pakistanis to think. That they are saving the country from the "enemy", that is India. If India is no longer the enemy, the Army will stop getting all the benefits it currently gets. The Indian Army in comparison gets very little. Indian generals do not retire with massive plots of land allotted to them etc.

Army is probably the best institution in the country which is the most organized. They have had, should have, and will always have a huge role in the country because without them the country is nothing.

With the Army running your country your economy is always going to stink and will never develop the modern industries. It may keep producing soccer balls and textiles, and also a bit of tourism and some infrastructure to carry Chinese goods, but beyond that nothing will develop.

You need to think hard about 1) why Pakistan has fallen so far behind India economically 2) whether any country in history has every developed economically with the Army running the show.

 

[khanz141]

Forget India, the army literally does everything in Pakistan. A flood comes through, the army is called to the rescue. An Earth quake happens, the army is called to the rescue. A big protest is happening, the army is called for protection.

More than the army, it's the corrupt politicians who have done nothing to date but filled their coffers and managed their way to extreme power where thousands of police personal and all police machinery are made to be salves guarding them and their entire families while obeying every single order from them.

Army is the best institution there is in the country and it should always be kept strong no matter what.

 

[Greenstorm]

This is exactly how the Army wants Pakistanis to think. That they are saving the country from the "enemy", that is India. If India is no longer the enemy, the Army will stop getting all the benefits it currently gets. The Indian Army in comparison gets very little. Indian generals do not retire with massive plots of land allotted to them etc.



With the Army running your country your economy is always going to stink and will never develop the modern industries. It may keep producing soccer balls and textiles, and also a bit of tourism and some infrastructure to carry Chinese goods, but beyond that nothing will develop.

You need to think hard about 1) why Pakistan has fallen so far behind India economically 2) whether any country in history has every developed economically with the Army running the show.

You regularly propagate the typical Indian/International narrative against Pakistan army, presenting it as the all controlling, all powerful and mother of all evils. The reality is far different. Army, being the only competent institution in this country naturally fills in the power vacuum that is left by incompetent and corrupt civilian leadership. Army is not stopping anyone from strengthening civilian institutions rather its the opposite. The moment a strong civilian leadership will emerge, the army will retreat.

Your assertion regarding economical growth is right but army has no other option. It cannot relinquish power to the incompetent and let the country sink although that is exactly what its enemies are trying to do, both from inside and the outside.

 

[Varun]

Army is the best institution there is in the country and it should always be kept strong no matter what.

They're strong at marketing, that's all. Keeping the country intact and shading it from drone strikes? Not so much.

 

[the Great Khan]

They're strong at marketing, that's all. Keeping the country intact and shading it from drone strikes? Not so much.

the country is intact after ten years of proxy war..hardly any drone strikes now either..

coming back to the narrative by the poster above, a politicians job is to provide security and reform. They have failed to do so and thus are responsible for whatever lack of expansion is happening in the Pakistani economy.

Also dont underestimate the reluctance of the west o invest in certain area's. They are more than happy to send their junk food retailers all over pakistan but when its meaningful real investment they wont. That is intentional.

The Indian narrative against Pakistan is a myth and full of nonsense. The army exists in the way it does because of the inability of the civilian government to do its job. End of.

I suggest you people wake up and stop reading your bakwaas media and other nonses. I wouldnt even read anything from certain western journalists either becasue they arent present on the ground in Pakistan and couldnt care less..most of their reports are sourced from India or through third hand information. It is unreliable and false. It is also part of the wests desire to continue to portray Pakistan in negative light.

Ill give you one example: terror attacks are at 2005 levels and falling. But you will never see this presented as a good news story by the west. We have had some interesting travel youtubers and bloggers visit Pakistan latley, where are the human interest stories? they wont do them on purpose because these humanise Pakistanis. They dont want to humanise us, they want to dehumanise us and so does India..

A woman was raped in a moving car in India yesterday but the west will ignore those crimes and stick it on the fourth page..and it goes on and on. the Indian army runs over a protester in cold blood but the west ignores it and so forth..its got nothing to do with terror or other things..its all about politics and investment is heavily linked to politics..

 

[Varun]

the country is intact after ten years of proxy war..hardly any drone strikes now either..

I was referring to Bangladesh regarding the country being intact: it was the army's fault that Pakistan lost 54% of its population and 25% of its landmass, and nobody else's.

As for the drone strikes, the army are to be awarded no credit for the drone strikes not occurring with as much vengeance as before - as they have nothing to do with Uncle Sam's decision on the subject. Proven when the drones were raining down - they couldn't / wouldn't touch them.

On pure merit, you should give the Pakistani Army a 4/10 - even that's being generous.

 

[the Great Khan]

I was referring to Bangladesh regarding the country being intact: it was the army's fault that Pakistan lost 54% of its population and 25% of its landmass, and nobody else's.

As for the drone strikes, the army are to be awarded no credit for the drone strikes not occurring with as much vengeance as before - as they have nothing to do with Uncle Sam's decision on the subject. Proven when the drones were raining down - they couldn't / wouldn't touch them.

On pure merit, you should give the Pakistani Army a 4/10 - even that's being generous.

nope..it was not the army's fault it was the politicians fault. Yahya had pretty much agreed to give Mujeeb power..Bangladesh happened due to a failure of the political system in pakistan. Otherwise the army would not have allowed itself to be so heavily outnumbered. We fought 50-1 odds in bangladesh and still fought gallantly as quoted by field marhsall manekshaw. We had zero chance..

no I give the army 9-10 for defeating a serious proxy terror organisation that could have destroyed the country and lead to its syriaisation. Drones have ended after the PAF declared they would shoot down anything flying in Pak territory that is why they are reduced to firing from afghanski. We cant fly over the border..

Secondly the militants that the US wanted us to fight are now a few miles outside Kabul so all the drone and airstrikes are occurring in afghanistan. The enemy is at the gates and we have pushed our enemies over the border..

Overall nobody has fought the WOT other than the Pakistan army and actually won..

 

[Waseem]

This is exactly how the Army wants Pakistanis to think. That they are saving the country from the "enemy", that is India. If India is no longer the enemy, the Army will stop getting all the benefits it currently gets. The Indian Army in comparison gets very little. Indian generals do not retire with massive plots of land allotted to them etc.

With the Army running your country your economy is always going to stink and will never develop the modern industries. It may keep producing soccer balls and textiles, and also a bit of tourism and some infrastructure to carry Chinese goods, but beyond that nothing will develop.

You need to think hard about 1) why Pakistan has fallen so far behind India economically 2) whether any country in history has every developed economically with the Army running the show.

Maybe they are not as much obsessed about Indian as you think?? This has nothing to do with India and no one uses India to get more benefits, this sounds so stupid because they have been fighting a war with sponsored terrorists for almost 2 decades now and all you think about is India.

And no Army is not running our country, this is just a pathetic excuse used by some corrupt and incompetent politicians who were more busy stealing from country. Army is not blameless and have contributed to destruction quite a bit but recent events (Panama case) prove it's just an excuse used by politicians.
Army couldn't stop them stashing billions overseas but they stopped them from running the country, politicians take credit for even nuclear tests but when it comes to failure, they shift the blame.

 

[Waseem]

This article is written by a guy called Salman Masood, NYT correspondent, he was leading the charge against Imran Khan about 6 months ago, not too dissimilar to that bald headed uk correspondent for GEO or Talhat, or that other bald head guy on twitter (common theme here hmmm) yet about a month ago I saw that Imran Khan gave him a sit down interview during which Salman had that kashkol/beggar bowl face made during it, and since then although still anti IK, he's tempered down his criticisms and brought it more in line with foreign anti IK (sleights like anti American) rather than straight up Noora nonsence.

On the Article itself, he seems to have a bone to pick with the Army, rather than the fact IK's popularity is due to him being seen as incorruptable and trutworthy by the common.

These Salman Masood type keyboard warriors have no idea about on ground challenges so shooting off their mouth is lot more convenient.
Wasn't he also accused of same in 2013 and result was that PTI won 5/148 seats in whole Punjab? All independents/electables joining PTI today were joining PMLN back then so how does it become an issue now.

What do they really expect Imran Khan to do? He has been fighting against status quo for 22 years without any significant success. He obviously had to fight against not only 2 big established parties but also their mafia in judiciary, media, bureaucracy etc. How do they expect being more aggressive against Army without being in power?? Sharif might be fighting his personal ego war and Imran Khan is exploiting Sharif's weaknesses which all politicians do??

Imran will give much more tough time to anyone who tries to destabilize his government (if he is successful) because he has clean image, has huge ideological and educated youth behind him and strong character.

 

[the Great Khan]

[MENTION=135]Waseem[/MENTION] more PMLN or former PMLN people are defecting. Sitting over here it feels like the PMLN is imploding. What is the feeling in Pakistan at the moment?

 

[Waseem]

[MENTION=135]Waseem[/MENTION] more PMLN or former PMLN people are defecting. Sitting over here it feels like the PMLN is imploding. What is the feeling in Pakistan at the moment?

I think they are still VERY strong in Punjab but no way they will get as many seats (around 120) as they got last time from Punjab. They will lose around 70% of South Punjab seats (around 45) and fast losing big names in their stronghold of central Punjab as well (weak in North Punjab as well). As per most estimates, they won't get more than 70 seats and this could go down further if Imran Khan can pull off some amazing campaign to cash out corruption scandals. Sharif has still been able to fool masses that he is being victimised but PTI can damage that narrative with effective campaigns.

 

[Syed1]

This is exactly how the Army wants Pakistanis to think. That they are saving the country from the "enemy", that is India. If India is no longer the enemy, the Army will stop getting all the benefits it currently gets. The Indian Army in comparison gets very little. Indian generals do not retire with massive plots of land allotted to them etc.



With the Army running your country your economy is always going to stink and will never develop the modern industries. It may keep producing soccer balls and textiles, and also a bit of tourism and some infrastructure to carry Chinese goods, but beyond that nothing will develop.

You need to think hard about 1) why Pakistan has fallen so far behind India economically 2) whether any country in history has every developed economically with the Army running the show.

It's funny when Indians have a problem when Pakistanis defend and support the Pakistan Army, but they themselves would even defend their Indian Army killing teens in Kashmir or using pellet guns to blind protesters. Irony just died a thousand deaths.


It's army, you don't tell us whether we should support it or not.

 

[Deewana Mastana]

For Imran to have any chance then he's got to win over Punjab which isn't a easy thing to do despite his jalsas bringing out thousands of people.

Like a few have said, Nawaz and his party have a strong hold in Punjab and the same as Zardari and his party have in Sindh.

All that can happen is that both those parties don't win enough seats and Imran can then have a chance but it's still very much a close call.

 

[Adijazz1706]

It's funny when Indians have a problem when Pakistanis defend and support the Pakistan Army, but they themselves would even defend their Indian Army killing teens in Kashmir or using pellet guns to blind protesters. Irony just died a thousand deaths.


It's army, you don't tell us whether we should support it or not.

Hit the nail on the head, TP POTW for me

 

[www787]

This is exactly how the Army wants Pakistanis to think. That they are saving the country from the "enemy", that is India. If India is no longer the enemy, the Army will stop getting all the benefits it currently gets. The Indian Army in comparison gets very little. Indian generals do not retire with massive plots of land allotted to them etc.



With the Army running your country your economy is always going to stink and will never develop the modern industries. It may keep producing soccer balls and textiles, and also a bit of tourism and some infrastructure to carry Chinese goods, but beyond that nothing will develop.

You need to think hard about 1) why Pakistan has fallen so far behind India economically 2) whether any country in history has every developed economically with the Army running the show.

Barely hear the word "India" in Pakistani media or by army unless it is killing of innocents in Kashmir or India's spy is apprehended.

Compare that with Indian media and Indian politicians.

Please stop telling Pakistani how to think, majority of Pakistani understands Army role and what they have done. This may be shocking but Pakistani do not hate Indian or India, they hate their ignorance regarding Pakistani, and as you can see on this forum and in Indian media it is in abundance.

 

[Napa]

Barely hear the word "India" in Pakistani media or by army unless it is killing of innocents in Kashmir or India's spy is apprehended.


Compare that with Indian media and Indian politicians.

In another thread on PP I posted:

I decided to try to do an objective test. I looked at the 4 leading Indian newspapers and the 4 leading Pakistani newspapers (according to PakWired) for mention of the other country.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/
http://indianexpress.com/
http://www.thehindu.com/

https://www.dawn.com/
https://www.thenews.com.pk/
https://dailytimes.com.pk/
https://nation.com.pk/

Front pages of Indian newspapers have a total of 5 mentions of Pakistan from about 250 (rough guess) articles.

"Pakistan hockey hero Mansoor Ahmed seeks heart transplant in India" (HT)
"Bikini pics of Pakistani model go viral" (TOI)
"Modi-Xi meet: China reassures Pakistan on ties" (TOI)
"You need strong arms, not smooth arms, on a sports field': former Pakistani cricket captain Sana Mir to young girls" (IE)
"Pakistan hockey hero Mansoor Ahmed seeks heart transplant in India" (TH)

Front pages of Pakistani newspapers have a total of 16 mentions of India from about 160 (rough guess again, the Pakistani newspapers seem to have fewer articles on their front pages).

"The Modi regime’s intolerance of political opposition and its cavalier attitude is killing Indian democracy" x 2 Neg (Dawn)
"Online myth busters fight tide of fake news in India" Neg (Dawn)
"Ailing Hockey hero Mansoor Ahmed seeks New Delhi's permission for heart transplant in India" (Dawn)
"What India owes to Nehru" Neg (Dawn)
"Indian VP shoots down opposition's impeachment motion against chief justice" (Dawn)
"EXHIBITION: A CONTEMPORARY AWAKENING: An exhibition places the margins of miniature at the centre to give the genre an impetus to grow in India" (Dawn)
"Indian Air Force exercise and its objectives" Headliner Neg (TheNews)
"Leading Indian activist says BJP ideology believes in raping Muslim women" Neg (TheNews)
"Pakistan hockey hero Mansoor Ahmed seeks heart transplant in India" (TheNews)
"Indian filmmaker reveals why Bollywood has not had its #MeToo moment yet" (TheNews)
"Hindu right wing and Jawaharlal Nehru" x 2 Neg (DT)
"Mulasthana’s doomsday — horrors of the 1965 war" (DT)
"Hurriyat calls on India to hold Kashmir talks with Pakistan"(TN)
"MODI DON'T DISTURB 'SURGICAL STRIKES' IN PROGRESS NARINDER MODI" Neg (TN)

So we have 2% of front page articles in Indian newspapers about Pakistan compared to about 10% in Pakistani newspapers about India. It is not even close.

Also, I have marked the articles which have negative news about a country by "Neg". 0% of Indian articles about Pakistan are negative whereas 56.25% (9/16) articles about India are negative in Pakistani newspapers.

If you can't believe the above survey, do one of your own, but you do need to maintain a minimal touch with reality.

Please stop telling Pakistani how to think, majority of Pakistani understands Army role and what they have done. This may be shocking but Pakistani do not hate Indian or India, they hate their ignorance regarding Pakistani, and as you can see on this forum and in Indian media it is in abundance.

As I said, it was friendly advice. And you are not the only Pakistani in this world, so other Pakistanis may find value in the advice. If you want your economy to continue stinking, you can continue down the present path.

 

[Napa]

Hit the nail on the head, TP POTW for me

It's funny when Indians have a problem when Pakistanis defend and support the Pakistan Army, but they themselves would even defend their Indian Army killing teens in Kashmir or using pellet guns to blind protesters. Irony just died a thousand deaths.


It's army, you don't tell us whether we should support it or not.

Leaving aside the fact the low level war between India and Pakistan kills both Indians and Pakistanis, I am sure most Pakistanis want their economy to be better.

I repeat:

About 25 years ago Pakistan was still ahead of India economically. Then India started getting government bureaucrats out of the economy. Today:

India per cap ppp GDP $7,200. Pakistan $5,400 (if you look at Indian states similar to Pakistan like Punjab, Delhi and Haryana, the contrast is even greater)
India forex reserves $430 billion. Pakistan $15 billion
India $ exchange rate Rs. 66 / $1. Pakistan Rs 120 / $1

India has in the last 25 years developed modern industries like pharma, software, auto production, petrochemicals etc. Pakistan almost zero in comparison.

This may sound harsh, but the fact is that only Pakistanis can make Pakistan better. If you don't realize that your Army is holding you back, you will never get anywhere.

With the Army running your country your economy is always going to stink and will never develop the modern industries. It may keep producing soccer balls and textiles, and also a bit of tourism and some infrastructure to carry Chinese goods, but beyond that nothing will develop. You need to think hard about 1) why Pakistan has fallen so far behind India economically 2) whether any country in history has every developed economically with the Army running the show.

Maybe Pakistanis living in Pakistan care more about the Pakistani economy than Pakistanis living in Canada.

 

[saadibaba]

Don't blame IK for siding with the Army, such is the influence of their propaganda machine and puppet organizations and groups that it would be ludicrous to think of a smaller out of power party to even think of domination without some Army support. Though its not as if there has been a big change in IK's stance, he was like that during last election as well and still lost. This makes the above article's proposition irrelevant.

It would help explain matters if one looks at the Army as a powerbroker, an interest group like WallStreet in America. Just like the big multinational corps. on WallStreet, it would be unwise and foolish to put all the eggs in one basket and hope for the best. Just like any good financial analyst, they have to diversify their portfolio and be open to all possible scenarios. Why not keep IK on a leash, why not keep Zardari begging like a dog on their doorstep and keep Shehbaz guessing and wanting to be in their good books. This is a game played by the ultimate strategist, one who has nothing or little to lose whatever the results of elections maybe. Its only wise on their part and more power to those who are wise.

 

[Varun]

In another thread on PP I posted:



If you can't believe the above survey, do one of your own, but you do need to maintain a minimal touch with reality.



As I said, it was friendly advice. And you are not the only Pakistani in this world, so other Pakistanis may find value in the advice. If you want your economy to continue stinking, you can continue down the present path.

That's a neat post.

 

[proud_pakistani]

Any country’s leader will praise their army. Don’t see anything in this to suggest Imran “warming up” to the army. Any way it is important that the army and civil leaders are cordial and have mutual respect even if they don’t agree on certain things.