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Ind Vs Somerset, 15-17 Jul, Taunton

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Strauss 3 away from a ton! these bowlers have brought him back in form. Well done.
 
Strauss gets his century
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Barmy Army! Barmy Army!
 
Whippy I suggest you travel to the darkest depths of the internet to an Indian forum about cricket. If you shift through all the crap they talk you will see it means a hell of a lot :)))

Indians on this forum are just trying to remain strong. They are getting slaughtered by a county side - remember the county side are also missing a few key players :))

Its beautiful.
 
I think it means a fair amount. I've always said Zaheer is the key for India, his wickets with the new ball over the last few years have opened doors for India. He was in fine form in 07 and also had a firing RP Singh to partner him which was the main reason for India winning 1-0. Now England are a far superiour outfit esp at home while Zaheer is not in the same form, he went 72 off 20 overs not taking a wicket and isn't even bowling in the second innings.

India's bowling line will struggle against England overall. England are always prone to the odd collapse but over 4 tests shouldn't really be bowled out twice by this attack(as this 3 day game as showed). While on the other hand India's batting line up can be out twice if Tremlett, Anderson and Swann are on top form which I'm sure they will be.
 
I think warmup games do mean something. Whenever we do well in them we tend to have a good tour, and whenever we flop in them we tend to get mullered in the real games. Not saying this is an exact science but from what I can remember this is how it has usually worked for us.
 
Would be surprised if Zaheer plays 4 or even 3 tests in this series at this rate. He's probably exhausted and injured.
 
^ That may be true for Eng. For India the first away game is almost always a loss. India tends to get better as the series progresses. I am not saying that the form they are displaying is not worrying but given the history, we may not be all that bad as we appear now.
 
It;s their own fault. Zaheer must have played in the IPL(I don't follow it so could be wrong) but was rested in WI. He needs to be fully match fit from day 1 at Lords and sustain this for 4 tests. England now have Strauss and Cook in form, these two can bat for hours on end, good luck Indian bowlers.
 
I will still wait.If it was the pre 2007 indian team i would have as usual criticized them without hesitation,but i have been doubting them quite a few occasions past 3 years and they have come out trumps lot of times.I trust in mahendra singh dhoni.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Whippy I suggest you travel to the darkest depths of the internet to an Indian forum about cricket. If you shift through all the crap they talk you will see it means a hell of a lot :)))

Indians on this forum are just trying to remain strong. They are getting slaughtered by a county side - remember the county side are also missing a few key players :))

Its beautiful.
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Nice to see Pakistani fans enjoying cricket after a while even if its because of some other team losing (rather than their own team winning which is quite rare these days...). :D
 
asifp said:
not the best start for India. Getting pumelled.
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ki farq padta hai......series to hamne hi jeetna hai ......:D


but if the same scenario happened in 1st test .....to meri halat aisi hogi ...
Dil ke arman aasuon mein beh gaye .,....:)

<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/phm2Tk_AkbY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Whippy said:
I think warmup games do mean something. Whenever we do well in them we tend to have a good tour, and whenever we flop in them we tend to get mullered in the real games. Not saying this is an exact science but from what I can remember this is how it has usually worked for us.
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That may be true for you guys. For us its normally the reverse. I posted this in another thread, let me repost it here

We didn't do well against the English lions on the 2007 tour either, went onto win the series. On the other hand , won a practice match on the 2006 tour to SA, lost the series! Played horribly against An Aus A team on the 2003/04 tour, drew the series, did well in the practice match on NZ tour of 2002, got thumped 2-0.

Having said that, the performance here has been shocking and the team management has got lots of areas to work upon with the players. The good news is 3 of the bowlers likely to play the Lord's test are not here, 5 of the first choice players haven't played. So there would still be the chance to go back to nets, work out on the flaws and then comeback hard during the 1st test.

Another thing is this is a 4 match series, so expect the team to get better as the series goes on and as they acclimatise better to the conditions. Just go back to the last test series vs SA, we got mauled in the first test but were the better side thereafter.
 
Har har, ton up for Strauss! ZK not even bothering to bowl at him this time. Injured perhaps?
 
And thats tea and also a declaration from Somerset.

How many wickets will India lose in the final session? My guess is 4.
 
I reckon they should have let Trego get his ton. Would have been nice for him to get a fast century against the worlds number 1 team.
 
Pretty much exactly what England would've wanted from this warm up.
 
Whippy said:
I think warmup games do mean something. Whenever we do well in them we tend to have a good tour, and whenever we flop in them we tend to get mullered in the real games. Not saying this is an exact science but from what I can remember this is how it has usually worked for us.
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The last warmup game(s) you played against the Sri Lankans were losses, and they came from the back to win them. Yet you defeated them 1-0. Anomaly?

And. Our Indian team has historically been a pathetic performer in the first test of any away series (Jo'burg, SA, 2010 :example). Perhaps we spend too much time acclimatizing or whatever. But we lose the match. Except that this time, we're making those mistakes in the warmup itself, which was an absent fixture in most of our previous test tours. So we won't go worse than this.
 
Very poor spirit shown by Straus.

Before the first Test, the English captain is deliberately depriving the Indians a much needed batting practice. Well, I might be a bit stupid thinker, maybe I am wrong, but, once the match became a FC match (Not 12 or 13 player practice one), & Indians were denied a first batting opportunity, I am sure, the Indian think tank deliberately opted to follow on, so that their top order can have one more go. Straus is cunning enough (Well, ECB ‘ll never appoint someone Test captain on the merit of his golf swing with a cricket bat) not to oblige & knowing that, just before the 1st Test, Indians 'll not stress their bowlers, he is using the opportunity to earn some soft runs.

It's a bit difficult for me to believe, after wasting a lot of my time in last 25 or so years behind cricket, that, a South African reject, middle age man with few of him pom friends got this Indian lineup at 138/8, on that wicket in proper competition, defending 420+ with only 5 of English county-men down. I started watching cricket in late 80s & early 90s when captains like Imran or Border would have opted to bat on gloomy early English summer & would decide to bowl on a sunny Headingly wicket in tour matches, often would have declared once the 5th wicket is down & definitely won’t bowl Quadir, or Warni before the 1st Test. In those days, there were at least 3/4 FC matches before the first Test in mid-June; now a days, teams get only a single match, before playing 1st Test, after traveling almost half the globe.

Again, may be I am entirely wrong with my assessment on the capability of the Indian batting & Somerset's bowling lineup.
 
Spiderguy252 said:
The last warmup game(s) you played against the Sri Lankans were losses, and they came from the back to win them. Yet you defeated them 1-0. Anomaly?.
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I'm talking about when we go touring and our first team plays local sides, not when another team comes here and plays some fourth XI :facepalm:
 
I don't know why an above post has singled out Strauss. The whole idea of home advantage is that it is an advantage to be exploited. When we next go to India nothing will be made easy and 'spiriting' for us!
 
MMHS said:
Very poor spirit shown by Straus.

Before the first Test, the English captain is deliberately depriving the Indians a much needed batting practice.
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They have had a whole innings, plus 42 overs.
 
Somerset did exactly the right. Why give extra overs to the opposition batsmen?
 
Spiderguy252 said:
The last warmup game(s) you played against the Sri Lankans were losses, and they came from the back to win them. Yet you defeated them 1-0. Anomaly?
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Doing well against a county side is no means a statement that you will win. Doing poorly is almost always a bad sign.

If you're talking about slow starters, I can understand it against England. Not a county team who has lost more matches than it's won, missing a few of its top players, who's bowling attack ranks nowhere near the top of the bowling attacks in the county and batting is mediocre, though well led by Tresco.

I'm just saying that your treatment of the issue is utterly mindboggling. How do you come out with statements like, England beware, we're going to win the rest now? After what can only be described as a battering, English fans would criticize the team sorely, acknowledge our faults and then plead, and ask them to take notice and improve. Here every statement I see is now confident of doing well, that it means nothing. That attitude is completely and utterly stupid. I wont say that India will lose because they did badly here, I will say that they need to be kicked up the rear and told to get themselves in order. We do that to England when they get a draw and outperform the opposition marginally. And its not to say English fans are worse than Indian, we follow them to ends of the globe to support them, though we are less in number. We're realistic, and if anything, we don't degrade our opponents unless they prove to be useless as many of you are so quick to do.

And MMHS - In regard to Strauss. I applaud him wholeheartedly. Why should he cater to India and offer them batting practice. Blame the BCCI for organizing one tour match, resting part of their playing XI, and refusing to bowl Zaheer who went wicketless! As a captain, that was the correct move by Strauss, calculating, but why should Strauss do his best to support the Indian contingent? It's their prerogative to look after their own warm ups. And what do you mean South African reject? He went to uni in England and played much of his later teenage+ years here, he grew up here. Sure he's South African by birth, but he learned the majority of his cricket here, would you want him to have left his family as a kid to go back to South Africa?

"Hey Mum, Dad, I know I'm only 16, but I've decided, I'm going to play for my country of birth, even though we're pretty settled here in England and I'll be a citizen here. Yeah, so I'm off to go live in Johannesburg, by myself, and one day get selected to be Graeme Smith's understudy."

This talk of nationalities is stupid. He's not a South African reject.
 
If we lose our first test, i am 200% sure that our media is going to screw BCCI.
Poor planning to start playing test with England after just a 3 day match. :facepalm:
 
velu said:
If we lose our first test, i am 200% sure that our media is going to screw BCCI.
Poor planning to start playing test with England after just a 3 day match. :facepalm:
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Well, when we went to SA and WI (our last two series) we played zero (0) warm up games.
 
Ruri said:
Doing well against a county side is no means a statement that you will win. Doing poorly is almost always a bad sign.

If you're talking about slow starters, I can understand it against England. Not a county team who has lost more matches than it's won, missing a few of its top players, who's bowling attack ranks nowhere near the top of the bowling attacks in the county and batting is mediocre, though well led by Tresco.

I'm just saying that your treatment of the issue is utterly mindboggling. How do you come out with statements like, England beware, we're going to win the rest now? After what can only be described as a battering, English fans would criticize the team sorely, acknowledge our faults and then plead, and ask them to take notice and improve. Here every statement I see is now confident of doing well, that it means nothing. That attitude is completely and utterly stupid. I wont say that India will lose because they did badly here, I will say that they need to be kicked up the rear and told to get themselves in order. We do that to England when they get a draw and outperform the opposition marginally. And its not to say English fans are worse than Indian, we follow them to ends of the globe to support them, though we are less in number. We're realistic, and if anything, we don't degrade our opponents unless they prove to be useless as many of you are so quick to do.

And MMHS - In regard to Strauss. I applaud him wholeheartedly. Why should he cater to India and offer them batting practice. Blame the BCCI for organizing one tour match, resting part of their playing XI, and refusing to bowl Zaheer who went wicketless! As a captain, that was the correct move by Strauss, calculating, but why should Strauss do his best to support the Indian contingent? It's their prerogative to look after their own warm ups. And what do you mean South African reject? He went to uni in England and played much of his later teenage+ years here, he grew up here. Sure he's South African by birth, but he learned the majority of his cricket here, would you want him to have left his family as a kid to go back to South Africa?

"Hey Mum, Dad, I know I'm only 16, but I've decided, I'm going to play for my country of birth, even though we're pretty settled here in England and I'll be a citizen here. Yeah, so I'm off to go live in Johannesburg, by myself, and one day get selected to be Graeme Smith's understudy."

This talk of nationalities is stupid. He's not a South African reject.
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Points taken. Are you English?
 
Spiderguy252 said:
Well, when we went to SA and WI (our last two series) we played zero (0) warm up games.
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And in my opinion, you should have won the series in SA 2-1 and the series in WI 3-0, but didn't have that ruthless edge when it counted. The results were therefore far less convincing. Who can sit there and honestly say that warmup games on tour aren't important? One only has to look at England's comprehensive itinerary in Australia last season for an example of how to acclimatise in foreign conditions before the significant games begin. Think about how well they did thereafter.
 
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match is over guys, it was draw. India got some match practice, and somerset left feeling good about themselves.



/thread
 
Whippy said:
Jealous?
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Not at all.I think we've had Australia's measure for quite some time now so no envy there.

Infact I would go further and give 15% to India for a good grilling in the preceding series 2-0.It created doubts , some confusion regarding which spinner to pick , Hussey's spot and other commotion.

Be gracious now.
 
^When India draw a series down under (albeit no McGrath), it is god send but now that England beat Australia in their backyard, it doesn't mean much? :)) To top it off, you say India had a hand in it :))
 
So one of the most convincing wins by a touring side Down Under in the history of the game was only half down to England, it was also down to Australia and India in equal measure. I couldn't put my finger on it before but everything makes sense now. Nice to see that South Asia still graciously provides the world of cricket with these revelations and opportunities to progress.
 
Whippy said:
So one of the most convincing wins by a touring side Down Under in the history of the game was only half down to England, it was also down to Australia and India in equal measure. I couldn't put my finger on it before but everything makes sense now. Nice to see that South Asia still graciously provides the world of cricket with these revelations and opportunities to progress.
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English fanboys salivating about the #1 test ranking. What exactly is England's record home/away against SA, away against WI, away against India in their most recent series?

Carry a handkerchief or two extra the next few weeks whippy!
 
On most tours now teams dont even get practice games, Indian batsmen, bowlers have got some game time in middle. Also its not as if most these guys havent been playing cricket anyways. India will be strong and competative come the 1st test!
 
RexRex said:
Not at all.I think we've had Australia's measure for quite some time now so no envy there.

Infact I would go further and give 15% to India for a good grilling in the preceding series 2-0.It created doubts , some confusion regarding which spinner to pick , Hussey's spot and other commotion.

Be gracious now.
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Huh? Hussey was the best they had, and they played him all throughout the series. I'm lost here. Oh, India won 2-0 at home? So? Have they beaten Aus in Aus? Have Australia had a real spinner since Warne? Did the BCCI pay Aus to go 2-3 in the first few overs of Adelaide. England drew with the mighty SA 1-1 in SA, prior to India. Maybe that set up the ability of touring teams to draw in SA (like you lot did). Is pulling 15% and 35% out of your rear a viable way to discredit your opponents?
 
Kaaatil said:
English fanboys salivating about the #1 test ranking. What exactly is England's record home/away against SA, away against WI, away against India in their most recent series?

Carry a handkerchief or two extra the next few weeks whippy!
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What is India's record away against Australia? Or SA?

OH NO! You say you've not beaten Australia at home yet? Poor you!

Or SA? Oh, you've drawn, just like us? 1-1? Why is your draw worth more? Repeat it with me, a 1-1 is a 1-1, is a 1-1.

Bringing up series that are so many years ago, and have little bearing on the current teams is a poor attempt mate.
 
Ruri said:
What is India's record away against Australia? Or SA?

OH NO! You say you've not beaten Australia at home yet? Poor you!

Or SA? Oh, you've drawn, just like us? 1-1? Why is your draw worth more? Repeat it with me, a 1-1 is a 1-1, is a 1-1.

Bringing up series that are so many years ago, and have little bearing on the current teams is a poor attempt mate.
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conveniently ignored the heroics of English against the windies? ;)
 
Kaaatil said:
conveniently ignored the heroics of English against the windies? ;)
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The last portion of my statement applies to it. It was a while back and it has no bearing on the current team, we don't play many of the players there.

But if you insist on making a deal of it, on their return tour, we crushed them in all games. I will agree we performed poorly there in Windies, but I think your "proving" a point is a list of irrelevant facts that don't do your cause any good.

And the Australia issue was meant to be the counter to the Windies issue. Surely the mighty Indian team at #1 could have beaten the Aussies at home, the poor midranked team that "gifted" us the Ashes with horrendous play.
You've got your imperfections, so do England. Your #1 ranking intimidates me not at all, and the mantle may fall upon any one of England, SA or India. We're not salivating, but we wouldn't be surprised to see it for a couple months before it goes to one of the other two.
 
Ruri said:
The last portion of my statement applies to it. It was a while back and it has no bearing on the current team, we don't play many of the players there.

But if you insist on making a deal of it, on their return tour, we crushed them in all games. I will agree we performed poorly there in Windies, but I think your "proving" a point is a list of irrelevant facts that don't do your cause any good.

And the Australia issue was meant to be the counter to the Windies issue. Surely the mighty Indian team at #1 could have beaten the Aussies at home, the poor midranked team that "gifted" us the Ashes with horrendous play.
You've got your imperfections, so do England. Your #1 ranking intimidates me not at all, and the mantle may fall upon any one of England, SA or India. We're not salivating, but we wouldn't be surprised to see it for a couple months before it goes to one of the other two.
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lol. India has beaten England home/away. When will England achieve that?
 
Kaaatil said:
lol. India has beaten England home/away. When will England achieve that?
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We've done it before. A while back sure, but we have haven't we?

So we have achieved it once, and it can happen again.

Making your comments based on past series is pathetic.

If it was even that applicable, why bother playing more series? Why have cricket at all? Why not just say, oh right, Team A beat Team B at B. Now, for every tour after Team A will surely win at B. Would make no sense to play cricket if the game was so simply predictable. Hell, when the English lost the Ashes for the first time, then why didn't the Aussies say, "Well, that's that lads, the Poms have lost to us at their home, let's save the ship fare and never travel back here again because we know we've now won for the rest of eternity." Mind you at a certain point the Aussies did look like that in their most dominating phases. But a series cannot be predicted by a result from way back. The last time we toured Australia, we were hammered 0-5. This time we crushed them 3-1. Now, the last time you toured us, you never beat us 5-0, and yet here are you are confident that we can't win. If anyone brings up the last tour claiming it to be more than what it was, a good away win, and claims that it is proof that India will win again.... I have to say, if you say that you've got less sense than my 9 year old nephew. His team routinely gets hammered when he plays basketball, but he goes back and wins some doesn't he? Because he knows its a game that doesn't depend on past performances, but the current one.
 
Whippy said:
So one of the most convincing wins by a touring side Down Under in the history of the game was only half down to England, it was also down to Australia and India in equal measure. I couldn't put my finger on it before but everything makes sense now. .
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If I recollect right , that historic series win by SA down under in 2009 (after 17 years) also came right after a 2-0 grilling in India.That was the first time Aus lost by a two test margin since the 80s.Some serious psychological damage there I'd assume ?!
 
Ruri said:
We've done it before. A while back sure, but we have haven't we?

So we have achieved it once, and it can happen again.

Making your comments based on past series is pathetic.

If it was even that applicable, why bother playing more series? Why have cricket at all? Why not just say, oh right, Team A beat Team B at B. Now, for every tour after Team A will surely win at B. Would make no sense to play cricket if the game was so simply predictable. Hell, when the English lost the Ashes for the first time, then why didn't the Aussies say, "Well, that's that lads, the Poms have lost to us at their home, let's save the ship fare and never travel back here again because we know we've now won for the rest of eternity." Mind you at a certain point the Aussies did look like that in their most dominating phases. But a series cannot be predicted by a result from way back. The last time we toured Australia, we were hammered 0-5. This time we crushed them 3-1. Now, the last time you toured us, you never beat us 5-0, and yet here are you are confident that we can't win. If anyone brings up the last tour claiming it to be more than what it was, a good away win, and claims that it is proof that India will win again.... I have to say, if you say that you've got less sense than my 9 year old nephew. His team routinely gets hammered when he plays basketball, but he goes back and wins some doesn't he? Because he knows its a game that doesn't depend on past performances, but the current one.
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I'm talking about the present team and the two most recent home/away series against England. Not like from 3 generations back.
 
Ruri said:
Or SA? Oh, you've drawn, just like us? 1-1? Why is your draw worth more? Repeat it with me, a 1-1 is a 1-1, is a 1-1.
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Having seen both series , I would say the score should have been 3-1 to the proteas , eng hanging on in two of those tests !

India could have won their series if they taken just one more wicket.Unfortunately that happened to be Kallis lol.

From a spectator point of view , there was a real difference in the competitiveness there.
 
Kaaatil said:
I'm talking about the present team and the two most recent home/away series against England. Not like from 3 generations back.
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When a team is made up of individuals, you need to go back only a year or two to see change in form, and in personnel.

Last Lords Match
Strauss
Cook
Vaughan
KP
Colly
Bell
Prior
Tremlett
Anderson
Sidebottom
Panesar.

Cook has improved by leaps and bounds since then. Trott averages over 60 and probably > MPV of that time. KP and Strauss are the same as then, maybe a touch worse for KP. Morgan is a brilliant bat and > Colly at the moment. Bell averages 80 over the past year and a half. Tremlett has improved loads. Anderson is unrecognizable from the inconsistent bowler he was and is now #3. Dunno who the seamer will be (though Bresnan would be fine). And Swann >> Panesar.

Jaffer
Karthik
Dravid
SRT
Ganguly
Lax
Dhoni
Kumble
Khan
Singh
Sreesanth

Gambhir is good, and marginally better on current form (though normally much) than the openers. Mukund is.. probably a bunny. Dravid is less than what he was. SRT is pure class as usual, better even. Ganguly and Raina are comparable, though I rated Ganguly better. Lax is much the same, class. Dhoni's batting has been mediocre. Kumble is far better than Harbhajan. Khan is talented, but seems a touch worse for wear, and likely less of what he was back then. Singh and PK might be comparable. Ishant is inconsistent and comparable to Sreesanth.

In four years, the teams have changed enough based on form and players. A claim staked on the evidence of series even four years ago can be invalid.

Once again, the difference between 0-5 in Aus, and 3-1, was 4 years.
 
RexRex said:
Having seen both series , I would say the score should have been 3-1 to the proteas , eng hanging on in two of those tests !

India could have won their series if they taken just one more wicket.Unfortunately that happened to be Kallis lol.

From a spectator point of view , there was a real difference in the competitiveness there.
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Our windies series should have been 2-1 (off by a wicket or two), yours 2-0. Who cares? The result is it. Work with the stats shown, because any claim that you would have done better would be easily managed by someone claiming the same for their team in another series.

Should haves, and Could haves are hypothetical, and should be left to theorizing.
 
Ruri said:
When a team is made up of individuals, you need to go back only a year or two to see change in form, and in personnel.

Last Lords Match
Strauss
Cook
Vaughan
KP
Colly
Bell
Prior
Tremlett
Anderson
Sidebottom
Panesar.

Cook has improved by leaps and bounds since then. Trott averages over 60 and probably > MPV of that time. KP and Strauss are the same as then, maybe a touch worse for KP. Morgan is a brilliant bat and > Colly at the moment. Bell averages 80 over the past year and a half. Tremlett has improved loads. Anderson is unrecognizable from the inconsistent bowler he was and is now #3. Dunno who the seamer will be (though Bresnan would be fine). And Swann >> Panesar.

Jaffer
Karthik
Dravid
SRT
Ganguly
Lax
Dhoni
Kumble
Khan
Singh
Sreesanth

Gambhir is good, and marginally better on current form (though normally much) than the openers. Mukund is.. probably a bunny. Dravid is less than what he was. SRT is pure class as usual, better even. Ganguly and Raina are comparable, though I rated Ganguly better. Lax is much the same, class. Dhoni's batting has been mediocre. Kumble is far better than Harbhajan. Khan is talented, but seems a touch worse for wear, and likely less of what he was back then. Singh and PK might be comparable. Ishant is inconsistent and comparable to Sreesanth.

In four years, the teams have changed enough based on form and players. A claim staked on the evidence of series even four years ago can be invalid.

Once again, the difference between 0-5 in Aus, and 3-1, was 4 years.
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Fair assessment. But, Australia that got beaten 3-1 recently was far worse than the mighty Aussie side of few years back that beat you 5-0. On the contrary, India has obviously become a better team than the 2007 one, as their record shows.
So it's not the same thing.

This series is tough to call. It would not be a cakewalk for either team.
 
Kaaatil said:
This series is tough to call. It would not be a cakewalk for either team.
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I never said it was, I just think it's unfair to call England's chance of glory out of question. That and many fans claiming a trouncing of England despite all the facts showing that it should be fought closely.
 
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