India and Pakistan Must End Support for Terrorist Proxies in order to end the senseless violence

[shortbread]

It does not take a genius to figure out that both Pakistan and India have heavily invested in fostering anti-national activities on each other's territories. While a lot of arguments can be put forward about the legitimacy of their motives and the consequential impact of governmental 'anti-terror' actions on their own populations, that's not the purpose of this thread. While numerous debates exist regarding these underlying issues, the focus here is on the troubling zero-sum game both nations are engaged in by perpetuating violence against one another. Despite the deep-seated animosities that prevent genuine friendships, it is crucial to ask why both nations cannot coexist peacefully without resorting to violence? The tragic loss of innocent lives and the disruption of daily life, compounded by retaliatory military actions, serve little purpose. While it's acknowledged that deeply entrenched ideologies and hardliners complicate matters, fostering a common understanding to cease violence should be pursued; after all, is it truly so challenging for both sides to come together, not as friends, but to simply halt the cycle of proxy warfare? Doesn't it benefit everyone?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Why would India end now? They are finally on the front foot after a long time.

There is no *** for tat at the moment. They have their chances to take revenge while Pakistan is in tatters. Why shouldn't they take it?

Peace can only come when there is some parity and that's up to the Pakistani establishment to sort out.

 

[shortbread]

Why would India end now? They are finally on the front foot after a long time.

There is no *** for tat at the moment. They have their chances to take revenge while Pakistan is in tatters. Why shouldn't they take it?

Peace can only come when there is some parity and that's up to the Pakistani establishment to sort out.

The belief that parity is necessary for a conflict to reach a stalemate is misguided; historical examples like the current instability in Israel and the ongoing Russia-Ukraine war illustrate that a smaller or less powerful nation can effectively challenge a larger adversary, often leading to significant losses for the stronger party. Additionally, the recent casualties faced by Indian security personnel highlight that the toll of conflict cannot be reduced to a simple numerical comparison: the loss of even a few lives can have profound implications, regardless of the enemy’s casualties. Or are you making the argument that it's fine if 4 Indian soldiers die, as long as 5 are killed on the other side? Is this the measure for being on the 'front foot'?'

 

[DeadlyVenom]

The belief that parity is necessary for a conflict to reach a stalemate is misguided; historical examples like the current instability in Israel and the ongoing Russia-Ukraine war illustrate that a smaller or less powerful nation can effectively challenge a larger adversary, often leading to significant losses for the stronger party. Additionally, the recent casualties faced by Indian security personnel highlight that the toll of conflict cannot be reduced to a simple numerical comparison: the loss of even a few lives can have profound implications, regardless of the enemy’s casualties. Or are you making the argument that it's fine if 4 Indian soldiers die, as long as 5 are killed on the other side? Is this the measure for being on the 'front foot'?'

I'm not aware of any recent deaths of Indian soldiers.

If you want to compare with other conflicts then Pakistan then needs to put itself into a position where it can make significant losses for the stronger party or it has some sort of clout or value to others.

Currently Pakistan is in turmoil, it is on the hospital bed economically, it's being torn apart internally, and is moving backwards on most indicators. India is not expending major capital to try to destabilise Pakistan in the same way that Russians are throwing money into Ukraine or the Israelis are into Gaza.

I would prefer peace of course but what incentive does India have to take it's foot of Pakistan's neck? It will either have to make large concessions or become such a thorn in India's side that they see peace in their best interest. It won't do either of these things.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Proxy wars have been the bread and butter for both countries, but if they want to put an end to it, a straightforward solution would be to focus on trade and mutual economic benefits. But how can we make this happen?

Well, first, we need to start talking to each other. Let's have open and honest conversations about our interests and concerns. Let's find common ground and build trust.

Next, let's focus on building economic ties. Let's trade with each other, invest in each other's countries, and create jobs for each other's people.

We can also work together on projects that benefit both countries, like infrastructure development, healthcare, and education.

And, let's not forget about people-to-people connections. Let's encourage tourism, cultural exchanges, and student programs.

 

[shortbread]

The two countries must come to an understanding to end anti-national activities across the border. Why waste time, man, money to kill each other..... for what benefit? No one is asking for dosti, friendship, Bhai Bhai etc.... but to stop killing each other, is that really so hard?

 

[Bhaijaan]

The two countries must come to an understanding to end anti-national activities across the border. Why waste time, man, money to kill each other..... for what benefit? No one is asking for dosti, friendship, Bhai Bhai etc.... but to stop killing each other, is that really so hard?

What’s the context for this random bump?

 

[Devadwal]

First pakistan/ india should make LOC as an international border and not used kashmir as vote bank policies.

Pakistan should forget about indian Jammu & Kashmir and india shouldn't talk about Pakistan adminstrative Kashmir.

Let's them live in a peaceful environment and works on development as india is already doing lot's of good works compared to Pakistan side.

Kashmir was/ is root cause for india - pakistan relations.

 

[mominsaigol]

First pakistan/ india should make LOC as an international border and not used kashmir as vote bank policies.

Pakistan should forget about indian Jammu & Kashmir and india shouldn't talk about Pakistan adminstrative Kashmir.

Let's them live in a peaceful environment and works on development as india is already doing lot's of good works compared to Pakistan side.

Kashmir was/ is root cause for india - pakistan relations.

Kashmir was/ is root cause for india - pakistan relations.

No it isnt. Its a problem, but not the root cause. The root cause dates back to before partition lol

 

[shortbread]

Kashmir was/ is root cause for india - pakistan relations.

No it isnt. Its a problem, but not the root cause. The root cause dates back to before partition lol

The issues may be many and they won't be solved in the short to medium future, that much we know. Let the opposition and wranglings happen on multilateral forums, UN, global courts etc....

All I'm saying is let's stop supporting millitancy in each others countries. It hasn't helped anyone, while people die on a regular basis, for what benefit? It's a very simple solution that both countries can agree on.

 

[mominsaigol]

The issues may be many and they won't be solved in the short to medium future, that much we know. Let the opposition and wranglings happen on multilateral forums, UN, global courts etc....

All I'm saying is let's stop supporting millitancy in each others countries. It hasn't helped anyone, while people die on a regular basis, for what benefit? It's a very simple solution that both countries can agree on.

Pakistani and Indians live peacefully in Aus without any issues.

Infact most global Indians are chill and fun people. It's the people who are forever trapped in India that cause problems

 

[sweep_shot]

Pakistani and Indians live peacefully in Aus without any issues.

Infact most global Indians are chill and fun people. It's the people who are forever trapped in India that cause problems

Yes. Pakistanis and Indians also live reasonably peacefully here in Canada. Very few issues in real life.

Having said that, I think these same peaceful Indians become hostile online due to anonymity. LOL. Not all but many of them.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

The issues may be many and they won't be solved in the short to medium future, that much we know. Let the opposition and wranglings happen on multilateral forums, UN, global courts etc....

All I'm saying is let's stop supporting millitancy in each others countries. It hasn't helped anyone, while people die on a regular basis, for what benefit? It's a very simple solution that both countries can agree on.

Bhai, you are posting as if the posters in this forum are taking the handlers of these proxy war machines
I remember as a kid even after Kargil and even Parliament attack, there was some talks about "Aman ki Asha".

Mind you the Parliament attack was designed to bargain Kashmir out of India. Pakistan has never faced the level of direct attacks in the name of Indian territorial claims. So many cities bombed every now and then in 2000s, but the 26/11 Mumbai attack was that really sored it for us.
I am not sure what it was in this forum then, but the kind of celebratory posts that exist of Oct 7 attack in Israel are sickening. I am assuming the general sentiment would be on those lines. There are some truly disgusting posts on the yesterday's BLA attack along the regional/ethnic lines within Pakistan itself. India or Indians have hardly have to engage in any of that.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Pakistani and Indians live peacefully in Aus without any issues.

Infact most global Indians are chill and fun people. It's the people who are forever trapped in India that cause problems

Pretending to be Indians makes life easy for every brownie of South Asia.

 

[mominsaigol]

Pretending to be Indians makes life easy for every brownie of South Asia.

Yes, Clearly their pretending to be Indian. I'm sure they must have faked their passport,

used Micheal Jackson level surgery and makeup to change the color of their skin,

taken voice therapy coaching to develop an Indian accent,

taken acting classes to ensure they stick to Indian norms like avoiding beef.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Pakistani and Indians live peacefully in Aus without any issues.

Infact most global Indians are chill and fun people. It's the people who are forever trapped in India that cause problems

sure. All the problem are because of India. Pak is an angel. <SMH>

I don't live in india and I sure as hell won't get along with you

 

[rpant_gabba]

Kashmir was/ is root cause for india - pakistan relations.

No it isnt. Its a problem, but not the root cause. The root cause dates back to before partition lol

enlighten us. elaborate

 

[rpant_gabba]

Proxy wars have been the bread and butter for both countries, but if they want to put an end to it, a straightforward solution would be to focus on trade and mutual economic benefits. But how can we make this happen?

Well, first, we need to start talking to each other. Let's have open and honest conversations about our interests and concerns. Let's find common ground and build trust.

Next, let's focus on building economic ties. Let's trade with each other, invest in each other's countries, and create jobs for each other's people.

We can also work together on projects that benefit both countries, like infrastructure development, healthcare, and education.

And, let's not forget about people-to-people connections. Let's encourage tourism, cultural exchanges, and student programs.

and end with Kargil and Mumbai attacks. Nah. India has done the hard to better itself.

Let east and west pakistan lie in the bed they made

 

[mominsaigol]

enlighten us. elaborate

Jeez idk, how about when hindus shoved pigs into mosques, played loud music and set masjids on fire pre partition?

Nahi yaar we were all drinking at pubs during British rule

 

[Hikaru]

Should have always been the case. Establish international border, stop labelling militant groups as freedom fighters, co-operate to maintain peace.

India gets nothing out of breaking Pakistan. Let's say there's Indian hand in Balochistan, even then India gains nothing here except a more distracted, less capable enemy.

It's high time Pakistan stops engaging in Kashmir, giving Bharat zero reasons for such alleged involvement in Balochistan.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Jeez idk, how about when hindus shoved pigs into mosques, played loud music and set masjids on fire pre partition?

Nahi yaar we were all drinking at pubs during British rule

Bhai, you seem a bit stressed out. This doesnt seem like your usual banter.
Relax and PEACE

 

[Devadwal]

Should have always been the case. Establish international border, stop labelling militant groups as freedom fighters, co-operate to maintain peace.

India gets nothing out of breaking Pakistan. Let's say there's Indian hand in Balochistan, even then India gains nothing here except a more distracted, less capable enemy.

It's high time Pakistan stops engaging in Kashmir, giving Bharat zero reasons for such alleged involvement in Balochistan.

Kashmir issue is major problem for india - pakistan so making LOC as international border should be priority for both country.

Na wo hamara kashmir le sakte hai or na hum unka. Better to face the reality instead living on delusion world.

 

[gani999]

First pakistan/ india should make LOC as an international border and not used kashmir as vote bank policies.

Pakistan should forget about indian Jammu & Kashmir and india shouldn't talk about Pakistan adminstrative Kashmir.

Let's them live in a peaceful environment and works on development as india is already doing lot's of good works compared to Pakistan side.

Kashmir was/ is root cause for india - pakistan relations.

erm, not really. Kashmir is merely a symptom of a malaise that runs much deeper.
And it is not Pakistan, as in the Pakistani government or its people, that is the problem. It is the ISI and the Pak Army who want to see India under six feet of rubble. It has been so ever since 1971. And the Pakistan government has no control over the ISI.
For years, the meek, leftist governments in India did little to counter the anti-India narrative and the proxy wars from the ISI. The current Indian government is different though. We are suddenly seeing things we never saw before - active and violent secession movements in Pakistan, terrorism, anti-India hawks getting eliminated by 'mysterious gunmen' etc. Basically all that India saw in the 1980s and 1990s are happening again, this time on the other side of the border.
While there is no real evidence that India is behind all this despite all of Pakistan's claims, it won't be surprising if it is. There is a limit to everyone's patience.
For years, the ISI has been behaving like a schoolyard bully, misinterpreting other people's lack of response as a weakness, or fear. Well guess what, now the real bullies are in town and ISI's Pakistan is burning.
Hopefully the ISI will learn its lesson. And once that happens there will be peace.

 

[Hikaru]

Kashmir issue is major problem for india - pakistan so making LOC as international border should be priority for both country.

Na wo hamara kashmir le sakte hai or na hum unka. Better to face the reality instead living on delusion world.

Hard for them to turn away from supporting Kashmiri militants after they officially celebrate a dozen Kashmir days every year, celebrating terrorists as heroes.

The solution to South Asia is quite straight forward, but the so called religious bond and Kashmir assimilation/freedom daydreams will always make it impossible practically.

 

[BouncerGuy]

CAN YOU GUYS STAY ON TOPIC INSTEAD OF TALKING PERSONAL STUFF... TALK ABOUT THE TOPIC OR LEAVE THE THREAD...

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

In this justification of killing Bugti ,a former CM of balochistan, nowhere does pervez Musharaff talks or even hints at Indian involvement.
This Indian involvement narrative has been spun in the last 10 years or so Just as a coping mechanism. As we hear "videshi taaktein" " bairunne mulk"

It is funny how much Pakistan cheered when taliban took over Afghanistan back in 2021. " oh all the wasted investments by Indians down the drain" the glee and joy in Pakistan media was not even subtle. And now suddenly india is funding the taliban too .

IK favors talks and appeasement with TTP but he is your great leader against India. How do you guys reconcile with so many contradictions in logic.

 

[Farhan The Man]

This call for peace is a call of surrender.

pak army/zia initiated asymmetric warfare in the 80s to get kashmir. Since conventional wars prior ended in surrender.

india responded in kind. And now army surrendered one more time. They don't want to prolong the pain given 10x in return.

 

[Bhaijaan]

1947 was a disaster.
Bharat should never have been divided like that by drawing ridiculous lines on a piece of paper that nobody accepted decades after.

 

[Hitman]

1947 was a disaster.
Bharat should never have been divided like that by drawing ridiculous lines on a piece of paper that nobody accepted decades after.

I guess you would have loved to live alongside countrymen like Hafeez Saeed, and politicians like the Bhuttos, Sharifs and Zardaris.

 

[Bhaijaan]

I guess you would have loved to live alongside countrymen like Hafeez Saeed, and politicians like the Bhuttos, Sharifs and Zardaris.

In independent Bharat only the brightest of Muslims and Hindus would rise to the top.

Remember the finest Pakistan leaders to date are Respected Jinnah Sir and Respected Alama Iqbal were both Hindustani by birth and for most of their life.

High IQ