India disinformation network spreading anti-Pakistan propaganda, says European watchdog

[Pakpak]

This has been going on (since forever but as per evidence lets say) for over 15 years. Hence, it isnt limited to BJP. Congress has been doing it too and infact they were doing a better job than BJP by being more subtle.

I'm talking within India too. A while back on an India site I found a long report with videos, screenshots and so on about how many millions BJP has who constantly post trash, propaganda, WhatsApp forwards, garbage on social media which is why despite BJP taking India to the dumps it's still easily the most popular party.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Not sure why people are surprised. Just google it and BJP proudly shows its millions of paid media shills who's job is to scour the web and post trash.

Makes you wonder what India could achieve if they spent half as much time and effort on improving their own country rather than trashing Pakistan. Maybe they just aren't that capable in which case it is understandable.

 

[Madplayer]

I'm talking within India too. A while back on an India site I found a long report with videos, screenshots and so on about how many millions BJP has who constantly post trash, propaganda, WhatsApp forwards, garbage on social media which is why despite BJP taking India to the dumps it's still easily the most popular party.

Yes in terms of brainwashing the Indian masses through absolute control over the media, BJP has done a good job but thats down to the majority of Indians being illiterate or semi-educated and poor. BJP has aggressively targetted these people through media campaigns and presenting Modi as their saviour and protector if their Dharma. A large chunk of their funds come from NRI hindus who are trying to overcompensate for the guilt of leaving their dharmic hindu land for dollars by supporting a hindutva govt. For these reasons BJP's campaigns have worked in India. Its just that the international community isnt as illiterate. Thats why Congress always used more subtle tactics internationally and it worked better for them.

 

[Hornbill]

There are enough news reported by msm about the mistreatment of treatment of minorities, human rights abuses in India/pak so there is no need to spread fake news to create negative perception, once again pure idiotic thought process hindutva brigade is exposed

 

[CricketCartoons]

Yes in terms of brainwashing the Indian masses through absolute control over the media, BJP has done a good job but thats down to the majority of Indians being illiterate or semi-educated and poor. BJP has aggressively targetted these people through media campaigns and presenting Modi as their saviour and protector if their Dharma. A large chunk of their funds come from NRI hindus who are trying to overcompensate for the guilt of leaving their dharmic hindu land for dollars by supporting a hindutva govt. For these reasons BJP's campaigns have worked in India. Its just that the international community isnt as illiterate. Thats why Congress always used more subtle tactics internationally and it worked better for them.

You are making it an educated/uneducated issue. The poor or the semi literates gives votes based on who has done their work, gas connection, water, electricity etc. It the the educated ones ( and you can see the excellent examples on this forum) who are more prone to propaganda, and vote based on ideologies.

 

[MenInG]

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Thank god I don't believe whatever our news channels and newspapers say about Pakistan. People should use their minds before believing every news cooked by bawarchis like Arnab/TimesNow/Sudhir Chaudhary.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

You are making it an educated/uneducated issue. The poor or the semi literates gives votes based on who has done their work, gas connection, water, electricity etc. It the the educated ones ( and you can see the excellent examples on this forum) who are more prone to propaganda, and vote based on ideologies.

You are right.

 

[Madplayer]

You are making it an educated/uneducated issue. The poor or the semi literates gives votes based on who has done their work, gas connection, water, electricity etc. It the the educated ones ( and you can see the excellent examples on this forum) who are more prone to propaganda, and vote based on ideologies.

The poor are also prone to voting based on religious lines.

 

[CricketCartoons]

The poor are also prone to voting based on religious lines.

Anyone can be prone, but it is not an illiterate/educated or rich/poor thing which you are making it to be.

 

[Bewal Express]

Its time the ISI took care of the Srivastava group and its workers. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander

 

[ahsan17]

It's good to know IK and the Pakistan government is making use of this news. NS or PPP governments would have pretended nothing happened.

 

[ahsan17]

This has been going on (since forever but as per evidence lets say) for over 15 years. Hence, it isnt limited to BJP. Congress has been doing it too and infact they were doing a better job than BJP by being more subtle.

This is an important point. The Congress government had been supporting terrorism and propaganda against Pakistan for at least the 2nd term of MMS government. They were doing it no differently than BJP government, but they had the advantage of more credibility globally and a Zardari government that didn't care about Pakistani interests. I would argue they were doing a much better job (like you said) in fact given the outcomes.

 

[Abdullah719]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Both The News and Express Tribune reported the fake journalist James Crickton's fake story. Years ago i tagged both these outlets and pointed this out but to this day, Mir Shakil's propaganda outlet The News has not taken it down: <a href="https://t.co/1DUXsYT3Tt">https://t.co/1DUXsYT3Tt</a> <a href="https://t.co/xBIvhPUGVJ">https://t.co/xBIvhPUGVJ</a> <a href="https://t.co/kElxvc9uLe">pic.twitter.com/kElxvc9uLe</a></p>— Waqas (@worqas) <a href="https://twitter.com/worqas/status/1336912234874867714?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[cricketjoshila]

Its time the ISI took care of the Srivastava group and its workers. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander

Lets assume that this Srivastava group works for the indian govt. Though i have never heard its name, i doubt any other India here has. So if ISI goes against them someone will go after ISI.

 

[El Generico]

Lets assume that this Srivastava group works for the indian govt. Though i have never heard its name, i doubt any other India here has. So if ISI goes against them someone will go after ISI.

How would they go after the ISI? If India could go after and end ISI, wouldn’t they have already done it? Unless you admit that ISI has never done anything bad in India and hence India had no reason to “go after then”.

 

[Bewal Express]

Lets assume that this Srivastava group works for the indian govt. Though i have never heard its name, i doubt any other India here has. So if ISI goes against them someone will go after ISI.

You can try, but seeing that your whole narrative is about his much fear them, who is going to be the sacrifical lamb. Remember what happened to Yadav?

 

[Greenstorm]

This is an important point. The Congress government had been supporting terrorism and propaganda against Pakistan for at least the 2nd term of MMS government. They were doing it no differently than BJP government, but they had the advantage of more credibility globally and a Zardari government that didn't care about Pakistani interests. I would argue they were doing a much better job (like you said) in fact given the outcomes.

They have been doing this since the start. Ask yourself, where did the mukti bahni, MQM, BLA, TTP got their weapons and training from. Even Kulbhushan was operating in Pakistan long before Modi. IK naively believes that Indian hostility is only due to Modi but the truth is that Indian security establishment's dealing with Pakistan has more or less remained the same throughout and is hardly affected by change in governments.

 

[Zeshan547]

They have been doing this since the start. Ask yourself, where did the mukti bahni, MQM, BLA, TTP got their weapons and training from. Even Kulbhushan was operating in Pakistan long before Modi. IK naively believes that Indian hostility is only due to Modi but the truth is that Indian security establishment's dealing with Pakistan has more or less remained the same throughout and is hardly affected by change in governments.

Yes its astonishing why IK relate all these Indians stunts only with Modi, it's their state policy, or dare i say purpose of their existence to rubbish and distort anything Pakistani.

 

[ahsan17]

They have been doing this since the start. Ask yourself, where did the mukti bahni, MQM, BLA, TTP got their weapons and training from. Even Kulbhushan was operating in Pakistan long before Modi. IK naively believes that Indian hostility is only due to Modi but the truth is that Indian security establishment's dealing with Pakistan has more or less remained the same throughout and is hardly affected by change in governments.

Indian support for terrorism in Pakistan has been going on basically since partition, agreed. The current wave started around the time TTP started gaining ground (i.e. Lal Masjid episode) and India fully capitalized on that. Pakistan must hit India sponsored terror camps and terror support facilities in Afghanistan, as that is well within Pakistan's capabilities to do. It ****** me off so much that Pakistan didn't name Indian government's support for terrorism. That was 10 years lost that could have made a huge difference. Zardari and NS government had no interest in blaming India the same way India would have blamed Pakistan. Pakistan was basically a no show for serving its own interests. So glad Pakistan now has a government that actually puts Pakistani interests first.

 

[cricketjoshila]

How would they go after the ISI? If India could go after and end ISI, wouldn’t they have already done it? Unless you admit that ISI has never done anything bad in India and hence India had no reason to “go after then”.

If ISI goes after any Indian assets in a foreign country, same will be done to ISI.

 

[cricketjoshila]

You can try, but seeing that your whole narrative is about his much fear them, who is going to be the sacrifical lamb. Remember what happened to Yadav?

Pakistan will get a Indian National in Europe? Lol.

All Pakistanis talk about is Jadhav.Look around Pakistan and UN sanctioned terrorists are found roaming freely.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Indian support for terrorism in Pakistan has been going on basically since partition, agreed. The current wave started around the time TTP started gaining ground (i.e. Lal Masjid episode) and India fully capitalized on that. Pakistan must hit India sponsored terror camps and terror support facilities in Afghanistan, as that is well within Pakistan's capabilities to do. It ****** me off so much that Pakistan didn't name Indian government's support for terrorism. That was 10 years lost that could have made a huge difference. Zardari and NS government had no interest in blaming India the same way India would have blamed Pakistan. Pakistan was basically a no show for serving its own interests. So glad Pakistan now has a government that actually puts Pakistani interests first.

Pakistan or Imran Khan saying something doesn't make it the fact. Hardly any takers of the Pakistani narrative in the world. Imran Khan is good at tweeting and making big talk. Rest nothing.

 

[El Generico]

If ISI goes after any Indian assets in a foreign country, same will be done to ISI.

By India’s own admission didn’t ISI go after their asset Jadhav in Iran? What was India’s response? Was the same done to ISI?

 

[Greenstorm]

Indian support for terrorism in Pakistan has been going on basically since partition, agreed. The current wave started around the time TTP started gaining ground (i.e. Lal Masjid episode) and India fully capitalized on that. Pakistan must hit India sponsored terror camps and terror support facilities in Afghanistan, as that is well within Pakistan's capabilities to do. It ****** me off so much that Pakistan didn't name Indian government's support for terrorism. That was 10 years lost that could have made a huge difference. Zardari and NS government had no interest in blaming India the same way India would have blamed Pakistan. Pakistan was basically a no show for serving its own interests. So glad Pakistan now has a government that actually puts Pakistani interests first.

You are right, NS and AZ became foreign (Indian) assets. They purposely peddle anti establishment narrative in Pakistan to garner support from 'International community'. The issue now is that IK is a pacifist and is heavily influenced now by Sufism, has done well to counter the Indian narrative on Pakistan internationally but that is not enough.

Pakistan's only option to counter India is to learn from them and play their game. We need to operate in India (not just IOK), using their indigenous groups to cause disruption just like they did with us. Otherwise, India will keep propping up one separatist group after the other along with digital warfare, propoganda etc and we will remain defensive forever.

 

[Greenstorm]

Yes its astonishing why IK relate all these Indians stunts only with Modi, it's their state policy, or dare i say purpose of their existence to rubbish and distort anything Pakistani.

Two reasons,

1) He feels this way because he always received love and admiration from Indians during his playing days. He thinks that Modi (BJP) has brainwashed those people now which is obviously a very simplistic view as one person cannot suddenly change the thinking of nearly a billion people.

2) Yes he is very competitive but by nature, he is pacifist, idealist and tries to avoid conflict.

 

[Mamoon]

So if we need EU “watchdogs” to inform us, why are we spending billions on the so-called brilliant intelligence agency called ISI.

Why do they even exist if our PM has to give references of the EU watchdog report in his tweets?

Maybe ISI would have been good at their job if they were not busy blackmailing jailing politicians, arranging mullahs and charlatans to invade the capital, kidnapping and killing journalists and political activists and on top of that, get involved in mega corruption.

The PM used to say that fish rots from the head, so I wonder which heads he intends to roll now.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Two reasons,

1) He feels this way because he always received love and admiration from Indians during his playing days. He thinks that Modi (BJP) has brainwashed those people now which is obviously a very simplistic view as one person cannot suddenly change the thinking of nearly a billion people.

2) Yes he is very competitive but by nature, he is pacifist, idealist and tries to avoid conflict.

This narrative that indians are peaceful and it is only BJP which is spreading hatred, and india will be back to its peaceful ways once the good indians reclaim their country like before, is a good one. Many of our indian posters also spread this disinformation. They are our foot soldiers in keeping alive the good india image, while we sanghis do their dirty work.

 

[Greenstorm]

This narrative that indians are peaceful and it is only BJP which is spreading hatred, and india will be back to its peaceful ways once the good indians reclaim their country like before, is a good one. Many of our indian posters also spread this disinformation. They are our foot soldiers in keeping alive the good india image, while we sanghis do their dirty work.

These foot soldiers gave real headache to Pakistan. I am glad that they are in decline in India. Someone like Nehru or MMS was far more difficult to deal with as opposed to Modi.

 

[MenInG]

Pretty shameful for India this story.

 

[MenInG]

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan on Friday asked the United Nations and the UN Human Rights Council to initiate an investigation and delist fake NGOs created by India to malign Pakistan.

The statement was read out by Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi while he was addressing a press conference along with the Special Assistant to Prime Minister on National Security Division and Strategic Policy Planning Moeed Yusuf following an investigative research by European Union (EU) DisinfoLab which detailed how India has been undermining Pakistan within the EU and UN through fake NGOs and news.

A hybrid war against Pakistan
Speaking about the investigative report, FM Shah Mehmood Qureshi said that India is involved in a hybrid war against Pakistan and the latest report by the EU DisinfoLab confirms Pakistan’s apprehensions against the Indian propaganda.

"Indian network is working to consolidate more power and improve the image of India and damage the reputation of rival countries so that it can ultimately garner more support for itself from the international community," FM Qureshi said.

According to the report, India has been running a 15 year-long operation to spread lies about Pakistan with the help of more than 750 fake media outlets, reporting in 119 states. Aside from that, more than 550 domain names were registered under the operation to create a web of platforms that propagated fake news. Indian news platform ANI played a key role in spreading the fake news created through this operation in India and around the world.

"Pakistan has been informing the world about India's activities for a long time. The country also launched a full-fledged campaign against Pakistan with regards to the Financial Action Task Force (FATF)," he maintained, calling upon the international community to take notice of such steps by the RSS-BJP regime.

Speaking on the occasion, SAPM National Security Division and Strategic Policy Planning Moeed Yusuf said that India has breached international laws by using the names of the UN and EU to defame Pakistan.

Referencing India, he said that the enemy Pakistan is dealing with is not a country anymore but it has turned into a mafia.

"Pakistan will pursue a proactive policy against India's propaganda and we will convey our narrative and stance to every possible forum," he said. "Our paradigm is based on economic security and peace while India is pursuing the agenda to hinder Pakistan's development."

He said all such hybrid war tactics of India will be foiled.

The Indian Chronicles
Titled "the Indian Chronicles," EU DisinfoLab's investigation report was released on Wednesday, December 9. It revealed that India's Srivastava Group backed a 15-year-long disinformation campaign against Pakistan, while a leading Indian news agency — Asian News International (commonly known as ANI) — was used to boost the campaign.

Did you know that India has more fake news than anywhere else in the world?

As per the report, the campaign started in 2005 and is functional to date. The EU DisinfoLab highlighted the operation's long-term objectives, which included promoting content against Pakistan and China and to consolidate power for India at international forums such as the EU and UN.

https://www.geo.tv/latest/323639-the-enemy-we-are-dealing-with-is-not-a-country-but-a-mafia-now-says

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

All these fake "NGOs" who were basically hate spreaders were living off EU (?) taxpayers' money.

If someone has a proof that I can send to my local EU representative, please quote me. I'll do my research as well.

These liars better pay every cent back.

 

[Madplayer]

Anyone can be prone, but it is not an illiterate/educated or rich/poor thing which you are making it to be.

Yes anyone can be prone. A percentage breakdown of which communities voted for Modi would make things clearer.

 

[Abdullah719]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">An attempt has been made by Pakistan & its proxies to hurt ANI's credibility by hurling wild accusations of fake news. Our partners and subscribers fully understand the politics that is behind all this, and continue to repose faith in the depth reach & credibility of our coverage</p>— Smita Prakash (@smitaprakash) <a href="https://twitter.com/smitaprakash/status/1337397625406910465?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 11, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

“Credibility of our coverage” )

 

[ahsan17]

So EU disinfo lab is a proxy of Pakistan?

 

[the Great Khan]

It is becoming harder and harder for the Indian state to disavow it's anti Pakistan activities. From Modi running a cell to destroy CPEC to supporting the murder of school children.

And now a comprehensive piece of research done by an independent organisation with no ties to the Pakistani state has exposed the fake news campaign against us. Many of us have spoken about this for many years but now it's out in the open.

It is quite clear that India is a state sponsor of terror and at the same time an exporter of fake news.

As for the comfort the bhakhts take in the fact that west doesn't take Pakistan''s narrative seriously, I'll say, the BBC would not have published this a few years ago on its website.

The world has changed. Pakistan has changed. India will soon realise this.

An interesting incident highlights this.

The UK PM was asked to comment on the farmers protest. Being the idiot buffoon he is , he trotted out a standard prepared statement. He was rightly mocked but what interested me was his statement. He said India and Pakistan should sort out their own issues as responsible states..

Clearly a statement ready just in case any question about pak or India is raised..the point is the narrative has changed...there is no more "do more"..

 

[ahmedzee]

Imagine if instead of India it was China or Russia's disinfo lab in Europe and western states. This would be the #1 story in the world and everyone would join hands to put sanctions on such a country.

The government of India has committed one of the biggest information crime just to take revenge against the sub-continent Muslims, as a payback for slaving to the Muslims for a millennia.

 

[Bewal Express]

So if we need EU “watchdogs” to inform us, why are we spending billions on the so-called brilliant intelligence agency called ISI.

Why do they even exist if our PM has to give references of the EU watchdog report in his tweets?

Maybe ISI would have been good at their job if they were not busy blackmailing jailing politicians, arranging mullahs and charlatans to invade the capital, kidnapping and killing journalists and political activists and on top of that, get involved in mega corruption.

The PM used to say that fish rots from the head, so I wonder which heads he intends to roll now.

The ISI has pointed this out it was only a few weeks ago when they showed that Inds were creating false accounts to attack Shias and sunnis to create sectarian strife. This is important because the research has been done by an independent organisation and puts all Indians on the back foot. The Indians always use local idiots to their bidding and we see them on here and on the Dawn website. You know who I mean by the local idiots don't you.

 

[ahsan17]

You are right, NS and AZ became foreign (Indian) assets. They purposely peddle anti establishment narrative in Pakistan to garner support from 'International community'. The issue now is that IK is a pacifist and is heavily influenced now by Sufism, has done well to counter the Indian narrative on Pakistan internationally but that is not enough.

Pakistan's only option to counter India is to learn from them and play their game. We need to operate in India (not just IOK), using their indigenous groups to cause disruption just like they did with us. Otherwise, India will keep propping up one separatist group after the other along with digital warfare, propoganda etc and we will remain defensive forever.

Agreed, Pakistan needs to open fronts in Afghanistan and India directly. Pakistan is at the very least capable of opening a front in Afghanistan and should do that. Pakistan has been handed a lot of opportunities on a platter, e.g. the F-16 being shot down, 300 terrorists killed in Balakot, civil war in Karachi, and now this leak, all of which were reported/debunked by foreign media. Indian credibility has been severely damaged as a result of these and Pakistan needs to capitalize on it. But more than that Pakistan needs to pay back to India same way India has been harming Pakistan. Is IK capable of doing that? He doesn't seem like the person to do that initially but since he knows what India is up to he might go all out for it.

 

[ahsan17]

The ISI has pointed this out it was only a few weeks ago when they showed that Inds were creating false accounts to attack Shias and sunnis to create sectarian strife. This is important because the research has been done by an independent organisation and puts all Indians on the back foot. The Indians always use local idiots to their bidding and we see them on here and on the Dawn website. You know who I mean by the local idiots don't you.

Mamoon might be a shill for all we know. The guy shift goal posts for a living. If the ISI or IB informed us of this (which it already had, btw) he would have some other reason to put down Pakistan.

 

[Mamoon]

Mamoon might be a shill for all we know. The guy shift goal posts for a living. If the ISI or IB informed us of this (which it already had, btw) he would have some other reason to put down Pakistan.

I am no shill. I just don’t buy Pakistan’s propaganda and I firmly believe that Pakistan is largely responsible for the geopolitical instability in South Asia. We have problems with every neighbor (apart from our Chinese masters) and then we play victim. We are the problem.

I also don’t shy from the fact that I have no feelings of patriotism at all and consider myself unlucky to be a Pakistani. It is not something that I am proud of in any way.

 

[Mamoon]

The ISI has pointed this out it was only a few weeks ago when they showed that Inds were creating false accounts to attack Shias and sunnis to create sectarian strife. This is important because the research has been done by an independent organisation and puts all Indians on the back foot. The Indians always use local idiots to their bidding and we see them on here and on the Dawn website. You know who I mean by the local idiots don't you.

No one cares about these watchdog reports that pop up every now and then. The world knows India meddles in Pakistan and Pakistan meddles in India and life goes on.

If you think anything will change after this, you are kidding yourself.

Ultimately, Pakistan is responsible for the conflict with India because our military establishment uses Kashmir conflict as a tool to exert influence in the country and remain the central power.

That is why our relationship with India will never change. They will never give up J&K and Pakistan will never move on.

Pakistan should move on and let J&K fend for themselves, but that would mean that the military will not be in the position of all-power that they are today and it will hurt their propaganda. It would also mean a declining influence/role in politics and economy, which they cannot afford.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I am no shill. I just don’t buy Pakistan’s propaganda and I firmly believe that Pakistan is largely responsible for the geopolitical instability in South Asia. We have problems with every neighbor (apart from our Chinese masters) and then we play victim. We are the problem.

I also don’t shy from the fact that I have no feelings of patriotism at all and consider myself unlucky to be a Pakistani. It is not something that I am proud of in any way.

How can you be unlucky to be a Pakistani? By all accounts you are in your own words a highly qualified doctor who is in his 20's. You also have no patriotism so I am sure you should be more than well qualified to earn a move abroad to one of those countries you admire - India or the west - so you could change that bad luck pretty quickly.

 

[Mamoon]

How can you be unlucky to be a Pakistani? By all accounts you are in your own words a highly qualified doctor who is in his 20's. You also have no patriotism so I am sure you should be more than well qualified to earn a move abroad to one of those countries you admire - India or the west - so you could change that bad luck pretty quickly.

I can’t because I have parents and assets here, so I am stuck. I wish my father would have moved to the UK in the 70s and 80s like his brother and cousins but instead he decided to become a civil servant in Pakistan.

 

[Zeshan547]

I am no shill. I just don’t buy Pakistan’s propaganda and I firmly believe that Pakistan is largely responsible for the geopolitical instability in South Asia. We have problems with every neighbor (apart from our Chinese masters) and then we play victim. We are the problem.

I also don’t shy from the fact that I have no feelings of patriotism at all and consider myself unlucky to be a Pakistani. It is not something that I am proud of in any way.

Wao Atleast you say what you feel i give you that even though it means your whole life is self pity, as they say with challenge come opportunity, it's big thing to be Pakistani and make some really difference then if you were some first world citizen, it's not crime to be born poor but it's crime to die poor, and you still got a lot gift wrapped in your life even in Pak, don't be such a Betrayer.

 

[cricketjoshila]

By India’s own admission didn’t ISI go after their asset Jadhav in Iran? What was India’s response? Was the same done to ISI?

Didn't you know? Google about it.

 

[cricketjoshila]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">An attempt has been made by Pakistan & its proxies to hurt ANI's credibility by hurling wild accusations of fake news. Our partners and subscribers fully understand the politics that is behind all this, and continue to repose faith in the depth reach & credibility of our coverage</p>— Smita Prakash (@smitaprakash) <a href="https://twitter.com/smitaprakash/status/1337397625406910465?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 11, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

“Credibility of our coverage” )

Apparently a European ngo isnt the decider of credibility.

 

[ahsan17]

Apparently a European ngo isnt the decider of credibility.

You seem to be under the impression that there is some global impartial decider of credibility that certifies what is credible and what is not. When it comes to geopolitics, its all about what each country wants to believe. In this case, it seems like the credibility is favouring Pakistan and not India.

 

[Abdullah719]

Apparently a European ngo isnt the decider of credibility.

You’re right. The European NGO is a proxy of Pakistan, as Smita Prakash suggested.

 

[warcry]

could it be that a few users those who actively comment on pakpassion are also part of the indian disinformation network.
if this were true, I wouldnt be surprised.

 

[Pakpak]

could it be that a few users those who actively comment on pakpassion are also part of the indian disinformation network.
if this were true, I wouldnt be surprised.

Look at some of the Indian posters or some of the 'Pakistanis' pretending to be Indians.

 

[El Generico]

So EU disinfo lab is a proxy of Pakistan?

Funny thing is most Indians on social media claim that Pakistan is bankrupt but at the same time they also believe Pakistan has western organizations and even mainstream news networks on their payroll lol. They are some confused people.

 

[MenInG]

The Foreign Office (FO) on Saturday rejected the Indian Ministry of External Affairs' (MEA) "attempt to deny responsibility for the elaborate and reprehensible" disinformation campaign against Pakistan, exposed in a detailed report published by a European non-government organisation.

Earlier this week, the Brussels-based EU DisinfoLab uncovered an Indian disinformation network operating since 2005 to discredit nations in conflict with Delhi, particularly Pakistan.

In a new investigation, titled Indian Chronicles, the group exposed another Indian network – involved in creating fake websites and impersonating experts – that aims to reinforce pro-Indian and anti-Pakistan (and anti-Chinese) feelings in India.

However, India has rejected the findings of the report and has alluded to Pakistan's involvement in spreading disinformation, according to India Today.

"As a responsible democracy, India does not practice disinformation campaigns. If you are looking at disinformation, the best example is the country next door which is circulating fictional and fabricated dossiers and purveys a regular stream of fake news," said MEA spokesperson Anurag Srivastava on Friday.

In a statement released today, FO spokesman Zahid Hafeez Chaudri said that the independent, non-profit disinformation watchdog’s latest report illustrates in graphic detail the web of more than 750 media organisations in 116 countries, over 550 website domain names registered, resurrection of dead people, impersonation of EU institutions and direct control of more than 10 NGOs accredited to the UN Human Rights Council, utilised for the purpose of pushing fake news and false Indian propaganda against Pakistan since 2005.

"The MEA’s tall claims have no legs to stand on. The latest developments and international exposés have clearly shown that India is neither ‘responsible’ nor a ‘democracy’," he said.

He maintained that Pakistan has already shared extensive and irrefutable evidence of India’s active planning, promoting, aiding, abetting, financing and executing of terrorist activities in Pakistan.

"The report by EU DisinfoLab goes to further corroborate our long-held position about India’s incurable obsession with Pakistan and its unrelenting smear campaign against Pakistan.

"We urge the UN human rights machinery, particularly the Human Rights Council (HRC), to take a serious look as to how a prestigious platform such as the HRC could be misused in such a manner against a member state.

"The relevant authorities in Switzerland and Belgium must investigate the finances and transparency of the relevant NGOs registered within their jurisdiction," the statement said.

"We also reiterate our call that EU authorities take full cognisance of this massive disinformation campaign against Pakistan and initiate steps to hold accountable those who misused their procedures and abused the European institutions.

"For far too long, India has masqueraded itself as a ‘victim’ of terrorism. It is time that the world saw the reality of India as a state-sponsor of terrorism and a purveyor of anti-Pakistan propaganda globally.

"The latest revelations have established that no amount of Indian falsehoods can succeed in diverting attention from India’s unspeakable crimes in occupied Kashmir and in misleading the world community.

"While countering India’s state-terrorism and exposing its false narratives, Pakistan remains fully committed to supporting the Kashmiris in their legitimate struggle for the right to self-determination as per the relevant UN Security Council Resolutions," the statement said.

UN, EU urged to probe Indian bid to malign Pakistan
A day earlier, Pakistan called on the United Nations and the European Union to investigate the abuse of their institutions by India for maligning Pakistan and to prevent this from happening again.

Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi, while speaking at a media conference at the Foreign Office, said: “India is manipulating and misusing the international system for its own nefarious designs” and it was for the international organisations to “ensure that the international system is not manipulated through such influence operations”.

“Pakistan calls on the United Nations and UNHRC to immediately begin investigation and de-listing of the 10 fake NGOs created by India to malign Pakistan,” Qureshi said.

“We also call on the United Nations to create processes that ensure that the international system is not manipulated through such influence operations,” he said.

The foreign minister urged the EU Parliament to probe how EU Parliament and its legislative process were manipulated by these fake organisations run by India.

Qureshi noted that the findings of EU DisinfoLab had vindicated Pakistan’s claim about India maligning Pakistan through fake reports. It is well known that India has imposed hybrid war on Pakistan, he added.


DAWN

 

[Bewal Express]

No one cares about these watchdog reports that pop up every now and then. The world knows India meddles in Pakistan and Pakistan meddles in India and life goes on.

If you think anything will change after this, you are kidding yourself.

Ultimately, Pakistan is responsible for the conflict with India because our military establishment uses Kashmir conflict as a tool to exert influence in the country and remain the central power.

That is why our relationship with India will never change. They will never give up J&K and Pakistan will never move on.

Pakistan should move on and let J&K fend for themselves, but that would mean that the military will not be in the position of all-power that they are today and it will hurt their propaganda. It would also mean a declining influence/role in politics and economy, which they cannot afford.

You mean you don't care because it destroys your pathetic narrative. You and your ilk are and were the target of the propaganda and it worked.
As far as Kashmir is concerned, maybe you can look at the basis of the borders between PK and Ind. Muslim majority areas to PK and Hindu at al to Ind. Its not difficult. As someone who cares about people's opinion, let the people decide.

 

[Greenstorm]

Agreed, Pakistan needs to open fronts in Afghanistan and India directly. Pakistan is at the very least capable of opening a front in Afghanistan and should do that. Pakistan has been handed a lot of opportunities on a platter, e.g. the F-16 being shot down, 300 terrorists killed in Balakot, civil war in Karachi, and now this leak, all of which were reported/debunked by foreign media. Indian credibility has been severely damaged as a result of these and Pakistan needs to capitalize on it. But more than that Pakistan needs to pay back to India same way India has been harming Pakistan. Is IK capable of doing that? He doesn't seem like the person to do that initially but since he knows what India is up to he might go all out for it.

IK will probably do that in his next tenure when he will get fed up of Indian activities. Currently he feels that 'international community' will take action against India, which shows his naivety.

We need hawks at the top to counter India but I do not see any in the current lot (both politicians and generals).

 

[Bewal Express]

I am no shill. I just don’t buy Pakistan’s propaganda and I firmly believe that Pakistan is largely responsible for the geopolitical instability in South Asia. We have problems with every neighbor (apart from our Chinese masters) and then we play victim. We are the problem.

I also don’t shy from the fact that I have no feelings of patriotism at all and consider myself unlucky to be a Pakistani. It is not something that I am proud of in any way.

But you buy the Srivastava group propaganda.lol

 

[CricketCartoons]

But you buy the Srivastava group propaganda.lol

Was it propaganda or fake news? Propaganda is not necessarily fake, but can be fact based narrative. Fake news is a different matter and exploits some truth which is exaggerated with lies.

 

[KoyoAli]

Pakistan rejects India’s attempt to deny EU DisinfoLab report

ISLAMABAD:
Pakistan on Saturday rejected the Indian Ministry of External Affairs (MEA)’s attempt to deny responsibility for the elaborate and reprehensible global disinformation campaign against Pakistan exposed by EU DisinfoLab.

The independent disinformation watchdog’s latest report illustrates in graphic detail the web of more than 750 media in 116 countries; over 550 website domain names registered; the resurrection of dead people; the impersonation of EU institutions and direct control of more than 10 NGOs accredited to the UN Human Rights Council, utilized for the purpose of pushing fake news and false Indian propaganda against Pakistan since 2005.

“MEA’s tall claims have no legs to stand on: the latest developments and international exposés have clearly shown that India is neither responsible nor a democracy,” a statement issued by the Foreign Office said.

It further stated that Islamabad has shared extensive and irrefutable evidence of India’s active planning, promoting, aiding, abetting, financing, and executing terrorist activities in Pakistan.

“The report by EU DisinfoLab goes to further corroborate our long-held position about India’s incurable obsession with Pakistan and its unrelenting smear campaign against Pakistan,” it added.

The Foreign Office urged the UN Human Rights machinery, particularly the Human Rights Council (HRC), to take serious notice of HRC being misused in such a manner against a member state.

“The relevant authorities in Switzerland and Belgium must investigate the finances and transparency of the relevant NGOs registered within their jurisdiction,” the statement stressed.

Pakistan also reiterated its call for EU authorities to take full cognizance of this massive disinformation campaign against Pakistan and initiate steps to hold accountable those who misused their procedures and abused the European institutions.

“For far too long, India has masqueraded itself as a victim of terrorism. It is time that the world saw the reality of India as a state-sponsor of terrorism and a purveyor of anti-Pakistan propaganda globally,” the Foreign Office underscored.

It pressed that the latest revelations have established that no amount of Indian falsehoods can succeed in diverting attention from India’s unspeakable crimes in the Indian Illegally Occupied Jammu and Kashmir (IIOJK) and in misleading the world community.

“While countering India’s state-terrorism and exposing its false narratives, Pakistan remains fully committed to supporting the Kashmiris in their legitimate struggle for the right to self-determination as per the relevant UN Security Council Resolutions,” the statement added.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2275680/pakistan-rejects-indias-attempt-to-deny-eu-disinfolab-report

 

[Local.Dada]

Firstly no one can deny that both India and Pakistan indulge in information warfare and propaganda. This has nothing to do with army,Modi,RSS,Imran Khan,BJP,Congress, Nawaz,Bhutto. This happens all the time.

However Pakistan comes across like the boy who cried wolf, let’s say if they had all the evidences in the world, no one would believe Pakistan as they have credibility issues.This may sting but it is a fact.

The other fact business interests and other economic interests in India means most of the developed world including China would turn a blind eye when it comes to India vs Pakistan diplomatic issues as long as there is no territory/land involved.

Pakistan needs to work hard on improving its credibility first. There are plenty of smart and capable people in Pakistan as well. I would say build the stature of your country and then world
Will take you seriously. I am sure expats will think this is outrageous but trust me as someone who lived 50% of his life in India and the rest of the 50% abroad I can assure you that Pakistan’s international reputation is not just Indian propaganda or RSS brainwash. The average joe on the streets in the west doesn’t view Pakistan favorably. I am not talking just about ethnic or religious stereotypes but just as a country.

 

[Local.Dada]

You mean you don't care because it destroys your pathetic narrative. You and your ilk are and were the target of the propaganda and it worked.
As far as Kashmir is concerned, maybe you can look at the basis of the borders between PK and Ind. Muslim majority areas to PK and Hindu at al to Ind. Its not difficult. As someone who cares about people's opinion, let the people decide.

There are some Muslim majority areas within Indias heartland who don’t care for Pakistan. Some of them might have ideological issues or whatever but Indian Muslims have rejected Pakistan a long time back.

Case in point Owaisi. You can hear his speech/debate when he visited Pakistan.

With Bangladesh independence and India having more Muslims than Pakistan already made the 2 nation theory redundant, so this Muslim areas going to Pakistan and Hindu areas to India is as modern as people buying a bicycle as the luxurious mode of transport.

As far as Pakistan goes, I accept Pakistan as a sovereign country and sure Pakistanis can have that “Muslim ummah” love for Palestine or Kashmir
or Uyghyur or whatever but that whole 1947 theory cannot be applicable to Kashmir anymore.

If Kashmiris want independence that is between GOI and Kashmir (POK included). If Pakistan wants Kashmir, that ship has sailed, either we move on and get on with a million other issues that need to be addressed first on both sides, May be in Pakistan a lot more relatively speaking or go for a full fledged war. Rest all is just rhetoric.

 

[Bewal Express]

There are some Muslim majority areas within Indias heartland who don’t care for Pakistan. Some of them might have ideological issues or whatever but Indian Muslims have rejected Pakistan a long time back.

Case in point Owaisi. You can hear his speech/debate when he visited Pakistan.

With Bangladesh independence and India having more Muslims than Pakistan already made the 2 nation theory redundant, so this Muslim areas going to Pakistan and Hindu areas to India is as modern as people buying a bicycle as the luxurious mode of transport.

As far as Pakistan goes, I accept Pakistan as a sovereign country and sure Pakistanis can have that “Muslim ummah” love for Palestine or Kashmir
or Uyghyur or whatever but that whole 1947 theory cannot be applicable to Kashmir anymore.

If Kashmiris want independence that is between GOI and Kashmir (POK included). If Pakistan wants Kashmir, that ship has sailed, either we move on and get on with a million other issues that need to be addressed first on both sides, May be in Pakistan a lot more relatively speaking or go for a full fledged war. Rest all is just rhetoric.

The nation theories best advocate is Modi and his fascists. He has shown why we needed to be saved from the fascist Hindutuva and we on this side of the border, will be forever grateful to QA and Allama Iqbal- May Allah give the highest place In Jannat for saving us from these thugs.
As far as the borders are concerned, you have to be practical as well as ideological. If you look at the borders of PK they were always on the edge of British Ruled India. It would have made little sense to create Bantustans in the middle of India, places that needed permission from India to get to. Kashmir was on the edge and had a Muslim Majority and fitted the criteria PERFECTLY. Kashmir should have been part of PK and thats why the locals hate you and you need a million soldiers to hold on to it.

 

[Madplayer]

There are some Muslim majority areas within Indias heartland who don’t care for Pakistan. Some of them might have ideological issues or whatever but Indian Muslims have rejected Pakistan a long time back.

Case in point Owaisi. You can hear his speech/debate when he visited Pakistan.

With Bangladesh independence and India having more Muslims than Pakistan already made the 2 nation theory redundant, so this Muslim areas going to Pakistan and Hindu areas to India is as modern as people buying a bicycle as the luxurious mode of transport.

As far as Pakistan goes, I accept Pakistan as a sovereign country and sure Pakistanis can have that “Muslim ummah” love for Palestine or Kashmir
or Uyghyur or whatever but that whole 1947 theory cannot be applicable to Kashmir anymore.

If Kashmiris want independence that is between GOI and Kashmir (POK included). If Pakistan wants Kashmir, that ship has sailed, either we move on and get on with a million other issues that need to be addressed first on both sides, May be in Pakistan a lot more relatively speaking or go for a full fledged war. Rest all is just rhetoric.

This post is as far away from reality as it can be. Apart from one point that Indian muslims see India as their only home. That is true.

Two nation theory has proven the absolute genius and long term vision of Mr. Jinnah. All talk of secularism is a massive farce as can be seen in the ONE, ONE muslim majority that is under the Indian miltary's control. Mr. Jinnah could see through all the nonsense promises and realize that all it would take for Indian secularism to go to dogs is a right wing hindutva party to come to power. Sure, congress (subtle hindutvadis) were able to keep the right wing at bay for many decades but the one time they lost by an overwhelming majority, every decision of Mr. Jinnah was vindicated (not that it needed any vindication in front of Pakistanis and Kashmiris who always knew it).

 

[Mamoon]

This post is as far away from reality as it can be. Apart from one point that Indian muslims see India as their only home. That is true.

Two nation theory has proven the absolute genius and long term vision of Mr. Jinnah. All talk of secularism is a massive farce as can be seen in the ONE, ONE muslim majority that is under the Indian miltary's control. Mr. Jinnah could see through all the nonsense promises and realize that all it would take for Indian secularism to go to dogs is a right wing hindutva party to come to power. Sure, congress (subtle hindutvadis) were able to keep the right wing at bay for many decades but the one time they lost by an overwhelming majority, every decision of Mr. Jinnah was vindicated (not that it needed any vindication in front of Pakistanis and Kashmiris who always knew it).

Two nation theory was an idealistic failure. It was exposed as a myth because of what happened between West and East Pakistan.

The reality is that Muslims are not one nation. They cannot live together in peace and harmony when there are sociocultural differences.

Religion by itself is not a strong enough binding force to overcome sociocultural differences. That is something that the Quaid and other proponents of the theory failed to see.

Ideally, the Pakistan-India-Bangladesh region should have been divided into several small, independent countries. Very much like Europe. It would have been the optimal solution for stability in South Asia.

That would probably have been the case if the British didn’t colonize the region.

 

[El Generico]

India having more Muslims than Pakistan already made the 2 nation theory redundant, so this Muslim areas going to Pakistan and Hindu areas to India is as modern as people buying a bicycle as the luxurious mode of transport.

It’s not a big deal but it always surprises me how many people keep parroting this misinformation. India does not have more Muslim than Pakistan. Not sure why Indians keep saying they do. Just use google.

 

[ElRaja]

Two nation theory was an idealistic failure. It was exposed as a myth because of what happened between West and East Pakistan.

The reality is that Muslims are not one nation. They cannot live together in peace and harmony when there are sociocultural differences.

Religion by itself is not a strong enough binding force to overcome sociocultural differences. That is something that the Quaid and other proponents of the theory failed to see.

not necessarily, just because pak and bang went their own ways doesnt mean muslims, in a united india would not be politically marginalised had they stuck around in a united india.

two nation theory wasnt about religion alone, it was about the ability of one group to marginalise the other in the name of religion (or language in the case of pak and bangla), and what modern hindu dominated india has shown is that jinnah was absolutely on the money in that regard.

Ideally, the Pakistan-India-Bangladesh region should have been divided into several small, independent countries. Very much like Europe. It would have been the optimal solution for stability in South Asia.

That would probably have been the case if the British didn’t colonize the region.

or it could be like africa, which despite loads of smaller countries is still a mess. if anything india, and a to a lesser extent pakistan, have some significance only because of the size of its populations.

if the brits hadnt conquered india, someone else would have, there is no way the subcontinent was avoiding that fate after the industrial revolution in europe, the only diff would have been more smaller conflicts and less cricket.

 

[ahsan17]

This analysis is quite lazy and simplistic.

Firstly no one can deny that both India and Pakistan indulge in information warfare and propaganda. This has nothing to do with army,Modi,RSS,Imran Khan,BJP,Congress, Nawaz,Bhutto. This happens all the time.

You can try to create a false equivalence. The way India has lied and spread fake news about Pakistan is nowhere near what Pakistan has done.

However Pakistan comes across like the boy who cried wolf, let’s say if they had all the evidences in the world, no one would believe Pakistan as they have credibility issues.This may sting but it is a fact.

The other fact business interests and other economic interests in India means most of the developed world including China would turn a blind eye when it comes to India vs Pakistan diplomatic issues as long as there is no territory/land involved.

Only the second paragraph in your whole post is true and relevant. It's basically all about geopolitical interests and credibility plays almost no role. Look at countries like KSA, UAE etc that have very little credibility. KSA had a journalist murdered in one of its embassy and almost no one bat an eye. It's all about geopolitical interests. Countries like US can invade or sanction other countries without even presenting evidence of their, let alone evidence be credible.

Western countries tend to band together and they never question each other's credibility despite many of them seriously lacking any objective credibility. You can say the same about many of the GCC states.

Pakistan needs to work hard on improving its credibility first. There are plenty of smart and capable people in Pakistan as well. I would say build the stature of your country and then world
Will take you seriously. I am sure expats will think this is outrageous but trust me as someone who lived 50% of his life in India and the rest of the 50% abroad I can assure you that Pakistan’s international reputation is not just Indian propaganda or RSS brainwash. The average joe on the streets in the west doesn’t view Pakistan favorably. I am not talking just about ethnic or religious stereotypes but just as a country.

This is again largely irrelevant. Very few people have good views on KSA, UAE, Kuwait, China. The opinions of average joes are largely irrelevant.

 

[Itachi]

not necessarily, just because pak and bang went their own ways doesnt mean muslims, in a united india would not be politically marginalised had they stuck around in a united india.

two nation theory wasnt about religion alone, it was about the ability of one group to marginalise the other in the name of religion (or language in the case of pak and bangla), and what modern hindu dominated india has shown is that jinnah was absolutely on the money in that regard.



or it could be like africa, which despite loads of smaller countries is still a mess. if anything india, and a to a lesser extent pakistan, have some significance only because of the size of its populations.

if the brits hadnt conquered india, someone else would have, there is no way the subcontinent was avoiding that fate after the industrial revolution in europe, the only diff would have been more smaller conflicts and less cricket.

Post independence, India with all its mixture of religion, language, culture, tradition.... Remained undivided where as Muslims seek independence in case of east Pakistan.

You argue that one nation theory would have been a failure but reality tells otherwise.

 

[CricketCartoons]

two nation theory wasnt about religion alone, it was about the ability of one group to marginalise the other in the name of religion (or language in the case of pak and bangla), and what modern hindu dominated india has shown is that jinnah was absolutely on the money in that regard.

Flawed and illogical statement. You reduce one of the ingredient of a reaction to a marginal, and use the reaction to explain what would have been the case when the ingredient wasn't reduced.

Every country has a fond image of itself, of what it thinks it is. But if you think that TNT was about one group marginalizing the other based on religion/language/whatever, then the Founding Fathers disagree. Q-e-A said Urdu and only Urdu will be the state language and those who think otherwise are "enemies of Pakistan".

 

[Greenstorm]

You can try to create a false equivalence. The way India has lied and spread fake news about Pakistan is nowhere near what Pakistan has done.

Better late than never. We should get on it.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Better late than never. We should get on it.

Pakistan's main issue with India is regarding IOK.

Indian army have been consistently committing atrocities against Kashmiris. There are videos, photos, documents and breathing witnesses. Heck they have frigging 1 million soldiers in that region. Any person with an ounce of rationality and critical thinking can guess what's going on, unless a hypocrite Indian

It's absurd for us to lie and make a fool of ourselves.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

So if we need EU “watchdogs” to inform us, why are we spending billions on the so-called brilliant intelligence agency called ISI.

Why do they even exist if our PM has to give references of the EU watchdog report in his tweets?

Maybe ISI would have been good at their job if they were not busy blackmailing jailing politicians, arranging mullahs and charlatans to invade the capital, kidnapping and killing journalists and political activists and on top of that, get involved in mega corruption.

The PM used to say that fish rots from the head, so I wonder which heads he intends to roll now.

I don't understand where this myth of ISI being this seemingly mysterious and shadowy organization has come about. It is not an intelligence agency like RAW, Mossad or CIA because the majority of the operatives are Army officers. By the time many of them learn the job, they are posted out. And even during that they are busy spying on politicians and meddling in internal affairs.

An intelligence agency requires people with a certain level of training, brought in through a rigorous recruitment process who then spend their entire careers in intelligence.

 

[Madplayer]

Two nation theory was an idealistic failure. It was exposed as a myth because of what happened between West and East Pakistan.

The reality is that Muslims are not one nation. They cannot live together in peace and harmony when there are sociocultural differences.

Religion by itself is not a strong enough binding force to overcome sociocultural differences. That is something that the Quaid and other proponents of the theory failed to see.

Ideally, the Pakistan-India-Bangladesh region should have been divided into several small, independent countries. Very much like Europe. It would have been the optimal solution for stability in South Asia.

That would probably have been the case if the British didn’t colonize the region.

Pakistan and Bangladesh not staying together was more due to geography than anything else. I know about the discrimination against Bangladeshis was real but even that would have been overcome if there was territorial continuity. And separation of Pak and BD doesnt mean a unified Pak BD India would have been a peaceful place. Thats as far fetched a thought as it can be. Two nation theory's main objective was a separate homeland for muslims. And with Pak and BD it has achieved that. One nation theory on the other hand would have been a disaster as i have discussed in my earlier post.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Post independence, India with all its mixture of religion, language, culture, tradition.... Remained undivided where as Muslims seek independence in case of east Pakistan.

You argue that one nation theory would have been a failure but reality tells otherwise.

What is one nation anyway? India was in the past an English colony and in future will become a modern version of it. You and I posting here in this masterful language are proof of it. Inshallah one day in the not too distant future I will visit on my British passport and try to find a 5 star hotel where I can view the lands my forefathers fashioned down the centuries. L am thinking Goa, it is well favoured by fellow Brits.

 

[ElRaja]

Post independence, India with all its mixture of religion, language, culture, tradition.... Remained undivided where as Muslims seek independence in case of east Pakistan.

You argue that one nation theory would have been a failure but reality tells otherwise.

two nation theory argued that muslims had substantially different political needs and aspirations to hindus, not that all muslims had the same requirements.

pakistan splitting in two does not imply a failure of two nation theory, that would have happened had bang chosen to join india again after seperating from pakistan.

india has done well to stay together, but you have to acknowledge that the only significant muslim majority (former) state of India has significant differences, to put it mildly, to the rest of the country.

 

[Greenstorm]

Pakistan's main issue with India is regarding IOK.

Indian army have been consistently committing atrocities against Kashmiris. There are videos, photos, documents and breathing witnesses. Heck they have frigging 1 million soldiers in that region. Any person with an ounce of rationality and critical thinking can guess what's going on, unless a hypocrite Indian

It's absurd for us to lie and make a fool of ourselves.

We don't need to lie and resort to fake news. Just actively propogate all the crimes that indians are committing.

 

[KB]

india has done well to stay together, but you have to acknowledge that the only significant muslim majority (former) state of India has significant differences, to put it mildly, to the rest of the country.

Reminds me of words written by Sumit Sarkar, an Indian historian:

"State unity, in the aftermath of Partition, required large-scale military occupations in Kashmir and the North East to suppress popular independence movements."

He continued that

"the tensions between national unity and democracy, and the ways in which the concerns of the former—military security, internal sovereignty—have not infrequently hollowed out the content of the latter. Kashmir and the North East represent the most brutal face of this contradiction, where the achievement of ‘unity’ has come with human-rights violations that parallel any in the world—certainly those of neighbouring Tibet."

 

[CricketCartoons]

We don't need to lie and resort to fake news. Just actively propogate all the crimes that indians are committing.

Remember maleeha lodhi showing a fake photo to highlight kashmir. That was a self goal, as she could have found many genuine photos to highlight. Fake news doesn't mean that the broad story it represents is also fake, but it takes away from the main point.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Reminds me of words written by Sumit Sarkar, an Indian historian:

"State unity, in the aftermath of Partition, required large-scale military occupations in Kashmir and the North East to suppress popular independence movements."

He continued that

"the tensions between national unity and democracy, and the ways in which the concerns of the former—military security, internal sovereignty—have not infrequently hollowed out the content of the latter. Kashmir and the North East represent the most brutal face of this contradiction, where the achievement of ‘unity’ has come with human-rights violations that parallel any in the world—certainly those of neighbouring Tibet."

I was due a rely to a post on the seeds of hindutva. But think you should read the book "The Indian Ideology" by Perry Anderson.

 

[KB]

I was due a rely to a post on the seeds of hindutva. But think you should read the book "The Indian Ideology" by Perry Anderson.

Perry Anderson in that book:

"This real achievement has, in what by now could be termed the Indian Ideology, been surcharged with claims to a largely imaginary status: the notion that the preservation by the Indian state of the unity of the country is a feat so exceptional as to be little short of a miracle, in the standard phrase. There is no basis for this particular vanity. A glance at the map of the post-colonial world is enough to show that, no matter how heterogeneous or artificial the boundaries of any given European colony may have been, they continue to exist today. Of the fifty-two countries in Africa, the vast majority of them utterly arbitrary fabrications of rival imperialist powers, just one – Sudan – has failed to persist within the same frontiers as an independent state. In Asia, the same pattern has held, the separation of Singapore from Malaysia after two years of cohabitation not even a break with the colonial past, of Bangladesh from Pakistan enabled by external invasion. Such few sports of history aside, the motto of independence has invariably been: what empire has joined, let no man put asunder. In this general landscape, India represents not an exception, but the rule."

 

[ahmedzee]

How come there is no uproar over this news???
Come on guys, India is a rogue nation and this story proves it. RAW and Indian govt (including the congress govt) used this tool to malign Pakistan on the international stage. Their animosity is evident. Wake up people.