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India does not know how to counter 'China's grand strategy'

endymion248

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The bilateral relationship between India and China is a key foreign policy challenge that requires concerted focus and effort by the Indian government. Given all that China offers -a big economic opportunity and a strategic challenge at the same time - dealing with it necessitate shedding the heavy-footedness and ambivalence that has held back New Delhi’s China policy so far. No matter how fast the Indian economy recovers and the Chinese slows down, Delhi cannot hope to close the gap any time soon. Instead, it should use its disadvantage into advantage and embark on an economic partnership that invites and eases Chinese investment. Following are few challenges that have raised the ambivalence in the relationship between the two countries.

First challenge for India is the ever-widening economic gap between the two. In the economic domain, India is not recipients of any Chinese generosity. China has limited Indian access to its domestic market. India's trade deficit with China rose to a whopping USD 37.8 billion in 2014 even as bilateral trade picked up, totalling USD 70.59 billion, a year on year increase of 7.9 percent. According to annual figures released by China's General Administration of Customs, the total trade volume went to USD 70.59 billion from 2013’s USD 65.57, an increase of USD 5.02 billion amid increasing Chinese exports to India. India's trade deficit with China touched a massive USD 44.87 billion in 2015 as bilateral trade registered a marginal increase, totalling USD 71.64 billion compared to USD 70.59 in 2014, missing the USD 100 billion target set by the leaders of the two nations. The total India-China trade in 2015 amounted to USD 71.64 billion.

Secondly, the military imbalance India suffers to its north with China impinges on the long-running border dispute between the two countries. With respect to India, China follows a policy of strategic ambivalence in terms of settling border. The idea involves enhancement of its military and economic strength and then lay claim over territory on the basis of this ambiguity. This is evident from the fact that even after 19 rounds of talks between Special Representatives, since 2003, there has been limited to no progress. Taking advantage of the ambiguity on the border, China resorts to incursions across the LAC from time to time to build strategic structures to its advantage.

China’s alacrity in engaging the Modi government, for instance, is without promise of moving forward on the border issue.The Chinese foreign minister has time and again dismissed Indian objections to the stapled visas regime for residents of Arunachal by calling it a “goodwill gesture”. China’s strategy involves consolidating border management mechanisms that would limit, in its view, provocative patrolling by India while they have freedom of action in areas they consider incontestable. Its declared aim is to reduce the impact of border differences on bilateral relations to the “minimum level”.

Thirdly, India faces tough competition from China in its maritime domain. China is acquiring naval facilities along the crucial choke points in the Indian Ocean not only to serve its economic interests but also to enhance its strategic presence. Under the strategy of “string of pearls”, China has virtually surrounding India by establishing its advanced naval presence in countries like Sri Lanka and Pakistan. As the ability of China’s navy to project power in the Indian Ocean grows, India’s vulnerability will increase despite enjoying distinct geographical advantages in the area. India has very limited diplomatic space to counter such moves by China. India is right to be disturbed at the news of docking of Chinese submarine in Sri Lanka and Pakistan, even though the Chinese government downplayed the docking saying that the submarines had only made a replenishment stopover.

India’s maritime security has been challenged further by China’s plan to construct a 21st Century Maritime Silk Road as a part of One Belt One Road Initiative. The Maritime Silk Road involves a series of agreements that would link China to Europe by sea. The idea is to build a maritime highway, by building infrastructure, upgrading port facilities and creating economic capability with countries along the maritime zone. This will serve China’s strategic interest by straddling routes along which its trade and natural resources flow. The Indo-Pacific Ocean which is critical to India’s economic and strategic interests, as also to those of China and Japan, will be the most crucial part of this road.

The Indian strategic community seems to be divided on whether or not India should join this initiative. While some Indian experts feel that this would lead to the dominant presence of China in the region on a permanent basis and India should counter it, others believe that India should partake of the facilities thus created which would benefit the region as a whole.

Fourthly, China’s growing assertiveness is most visible in the South Asian region, which presents India with a credible challenge and need for pro-active thinking to outpace China and emerge as a reliable partner. China has advanced its economic diplomacy accompanied by expanded strategic cooperation with India’s neighbours. China has stepped up its engagement with the region and promoted Asian connectivity, largely through its Silk Road “belt and road” vision, and marshalling extensive resources on initiatives such as the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank that will likely outpace other financial sources.

The China-Pakistan axis stands as a special case. China’s most recent economic commitment to Pakistan—a declared package of $46 billion in infrastructure development and assistance—thus represents an intensification of a longstanding relationship. China is also responsible for strategically damaging India by arming Pakistan with nuclear and missile technologies. Also, China overtook India as Bangladesh’s top trading partner in 2005 and since then China has displaced many Indian goods in Bangladesh, offering cheaper Chinese products. China’s trade Sri Lanka still lags behind India’s, but the gaps are narrowing. Sri Lanka is among India’s top trading partners in South Asia, and India is Sri Lanka’s largest trade partner. Since 2005, however, Chinese exports to Sri Lanka have quadrupled to close to $4 billion, coming closer to Indian levels. China and Sri Lanka are also negotiating an FTA to further boost trade and provide better access for Sri Lankan goods in Chinese markets. Sri Lanka also features prominently in China’s Maritime Silk Road project.

Despite the hype over relations between India and China, there is an underlying strategic dissonance. There has been a steady erosion in India’s manoeuvring power vis-à-vis China, as the gap in economic and military capabilities between the two countries widened relentlessly. India-China economic relationship constitutes one of the most lopsided trade relations with Chinese exports being 3.5 times greater in value than its imports. Despite rising border provocations, Indian policymakers have no idea about how to handle it. China’s hostility towards India is intended to checkmate the rise of India, to keep it entangled in South Asian security challenges, and to prevent it from acquiring a global stature.

Other than India, there is no Asian power which has the potential to compete with China in economic and military power. China has the ambition to emerge as the most powerful state in the world, overtaking the United States. That is the Chinese dream in pursuit of which China formulates its global strategy; not allowing India to rise is a part of this larger strategy.

Ankita Dutta, PhD. Scholar at the School of International Studies, Jawaharlal Nehru University, New Delhi

Interesting analysis. I wonder what perspective our resident indians will offer on this.
 
India and China will never be at ease.

India wants what China is doing in South Asia and China sees India as a pesky fox which is trying to counter it.

2 Competitors will always be at cold war. Each trying to out do the other. Though China is miles a head of India, China still does not want India to become strong both militarily and economically.

China supports Pakistan to check mate India.
India is selling weapons to Vietnam, Philippines and other South Asian Countries to counter balance China.
 
India and China will never be at ease.

India wants what China is doing in South Asia and China sees India as a pesky fox which is trying to counter it.

2 Competitors will always be at cold war. Each trying to out do the other. Though China is miles a head of India, China still does not want India to become strong both militarily and economically.

China supports Pakistan to check mate India.
India is selling weapons to Vietnam, Philippines and other South Asian Countries to counter balance China.

Not just Pakistan, it is also countering India's influence in Sri Lanka, Nepal, Bhutan and Bangladesh. Bhutan, especially, has seen significant improval of their relationship with China and the only reason China is after them is to squeeze Indian north-east in the event of war. And there is of course the sino-indian war which has left a lasting impact on the Indian psyche in regards to the superiority of China.
 
Not just Pakistan, it is also countering India's influence in Sri Lanka, Nepal, Bhutan and Bangladesh. Bhutan, especially, has seen significant improval of their relationship with China and the only reason China is after them is to squeeze Indian north-east in the event of war. And there is of course the sino-indian war which has left a lasting impact on the Indian psyche in regards to the superiority of China.

India cannot beat China in a conventional war. The loss will be too much to take. Similarly China will suffer heavy losses too. It might set them back by decades and they are not stupid to undo the progress they made in the past 50 yrs.

USA is India's only hope. USA also sees India as a tool which it can use to counter China's hegemony. Basically India and China will do anything to pull each other's leg and make them fall. Something what India and Pakistan have been doing for over 60 yrs.
Nobody is really a friend or ally in this global politics. Everyone supports other for their own gain.

What I do not understand is that China is already huge. Why would they want Tibet, India's North East, Taiwan etc is beyond me. How much greedy can a nation get?
 
India cannot beat China in a conventional war. The loss will be too much to take. Similarly China will suffer heavy losses too. It might set them back by decades and they are not stupid to undo the progress they made in the past 50 yrs.

USA is India's only hope. USA also sees India as a tool which it can use to counter China's hegemony. Basically India and China will do anything to pull each other's leg and make them fall. Something what India and Pakistan have been doing for over 60 yrs.
Nobody is really a friend or ally in this global politics. Everyone supports other for their own gain.

What I do not understand is that China is already huge. Why would they want Tibet, India's North East, Taiwan etc is beyond me. How much greedy can a nation get?

Do you think any country other than pakistan will allow China to use their soil to attack India
 
Do you think any country other than pakistan will allow China to use their soil to attack India

I don't think so. Bhutan might not do anything if China uses it airspace. Same with Bangladesh and Srilanka. These countries are minnows and are not strong enough to say anything to China if China decides to bully them.

On the other hand if India unilaterally decides to use Bhutan or Lanka or Bangladesh's airspace, they surely will make some noise. India is not as scary as China. :murali
 
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Why always look at it in terms of conflict ? Was the Silk road a theatre of wars or commercial exchanges ? Two old civilizations are mature enough to deal it in more civil ways, it's the US and Europeans which like to play these 'games', remember how the British did (opium).

China supports Pakistan to check mate India.
India is selling weapons to Vietnam, Philippines and other South Asian Countries to counter balance China.

China has a foot everywhere (just see the recent superlative investments in Oman), not only Pakistan (as the article puts it, in South Asia, lot of work done in Sri Lanka), that would be quite short-sighted of them. As for the Philippines, new political developments beings played out might be beneficial to the Dragon on the long term, at least if their own 'Trump' gets power :

New dawn for Philippine-China relations?

(...)
Over the past few years, the Philippines has emerged as one of the most strident critics of Chinese assertiveness in adjacent waters.

After three decades of relatively stable bilateral relations, President Benigno Aquino of the Philippines made the unprecedented decision to take China to international court over maritime disputes in the South China Sea.
(...)
Unlike the outgoing administration, Duterte has openly called for direct talks with Chinese leadership and joint development agreements in the South China Sea.
(...)
Meanwhile, Duterte has openly questioned the reliability of alliance with the US, vowing to pursue a more "independent" foreign policy.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/op...-china-relations-duterte-160604101429033.html
 
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I think we can learn a lot from China,also if China has so much trade with India surely we can get some Chinese backup for things.

Conventional war is never happening anymore so lol on that.We should collaborate with China even our movies have started doing 100 crore business there PK,3 Idiots we need to have more people-people exchange.
 
I think we can learn a lot from China,also if China has so much trade with India surely we can get some Chinese backup for things.

Conventional war is never happening anymore so lol on that.We should collaborate with China even our movies have started doing 100 crore business there PK,3 Idiots we need to have more people-people exchange.

I've read there's also a joint production of some movie on Buddhism which will release soon.

What about Chinese cinema in India ? Since the absorption (let's be honest) of Hong Kong the Chinese cinema industry is expanding very very rapidly.

I mean Hong Kong with its tiny population (a bit less than 8 millions) could rival Hollywood/Bollywood, imagine if they use the potential/market of the +1 billion Chinese...
 
I've read there's also a joint production of some movie on Buddhism which will release soon.

What about Chinese cinema in India ? Since the absorption (let's be honest) of Hong Kong the Chinese cinema industry is expanding very very rapidly.

I mean Hong Kong with its tiny population (a bit less than 8 millions) could rival Hollywood/Bollywood, imagine if they use the potential/market of the +1 billion Chinese...

Sadly the Chinese movie Industry is dead in India,there was a time when Jackie Chan was a big draw in India everyone used to line up for his movies.

Although Indian movies were big in China till they brought in foreign movie rule,but now again Studios are dubbing their movie to get it released there as some of the issues are similar.3 Idiots is a cult move over there.

I see lot of trade happening with China tbh(with deficit ofcourse) a lot of people i know go there to get things made but there is a distrust between the two governments although people don't hate each other and are ready to collaborate on IT as well.
 
I've read there's also a joint production of some movie on Buddhism which will release soon.

What about Chinese cinema in India ? Since the absorption (let's be honest) of Hong Kong the Chinese cinema industry is expanding very very rapidly.

I mean Hong Kong with its tiny population (a bit less than 8 millions) could rival Hollywood/Bollywood, imagine if they use the potential/market of the +1 billion Chinese...

Kung fu Yoga.
 
I don't see India and China engaging in conflict.

They are certainly not the besties but both countries know that they have a lot to gain through cooperation and only to lose through conflict. China is the biggest import partner of India and is one of the biggest export partners as well.
 
Sadly the Chinese movie Industry is dead in India,there was a time when Jackie Chan was a big draw in India everyone used to line up for his movies.

Although Indian movies were big in China till they brought in foreign movie rule,but now again Studios are dubbing their movie to get it released there as some of the issues are similar.3 Idiots is a cult move over there.

I see lot of trade happening with China tbh(with deficit ofcourse) a lot of people i know go there to get things made but there is a distrust between the two governments although people don't hate each other and are ready to collaborate on IT as well.

Well I doubt we're about to see a crowd-puller like Jackie Chan anytime soon, even if I'm a fan of Donnie Yen but there's a gap. India has a more "secure" star-system than Hong Kong I think, but now if China keeps going, investing like they do right now and producing big budget movies with good box office records (thanks to Hong Kong), perhaps we'll see in few years new "stars" in martial arts.

Trade is one of the reasons I think all talks about "wars" will remain mere talks.

Kung fu Yoga.

I think that's the one.
 
modis chest thumping ambitions and closeness with US would definitely annoy china but if cpec works well they are definitely to gain a huge strategic advantage over india.though trade which is around $100 billion will keep things in balance.
 
China needs to establish naval bases all over Indian Ocean and rename it Chinese Ocean..
 
Not just Pakistan, it is also countering India's influence in Sri Lanka, Nepal, Bhutan and Bangladesh. Bhutan, especially, has seen significant improval of their relationship with China and the only reason China is after them is to squeeze Indian north-east in the event of war. And there is of course the sino-indian war which has left a lasting impact on the Indian psyche in regards to the superiority of China.




All the hydropower and other major infrastructure projects in Bhutan have been built by India. India shares a very special & long-standing relationship with Bhutan . China is a recent entrant there.





China has Pakistan, SL & now Nepal in its grip whereas India has the support of BD, Bhutan & Afghanistan.
 
All the hydropower and other major infrastructure projects in Bhutan have been built by India. India shares a very special & long-standing relationship with Bhutan . China is a recent entrant there.





China has Pakistan, SL & now Nepal in its grip whereas India has the support of BD, Bhutan & Afghanistan.

There is also Myanmar. And I wouldn't say BD is closer to India, it's pretty much neutral.
 
Yes, BD could easily fall on China's side, and personally, I think it might be the case of Afghanistan too, but China will have work to do - not so much of the country itself, but Iran/Russia.
 
All the hydropower and other major infrastructure projects in Bhutan have been built by India. India shares a very special & long-standing relationship with Bhutan . China is a recent entrant there.





China has Pakistan, SL & now Nepal in its grip whereas India has the support of BD, Bhutan & Afghanistan.

Don't you and BD have some sort of border disputes, over which there has been firing from both sides of the border..
 
Yes, BD could easily fall on China's side, and personally, I think it might be the case of Afghanistan too, but China will have work to do - not so much of the country itself, but Iran/Russia.
You believe that a US liberated nation Afghanistan will fall into chinese hands?

40% of Nepalese population is of Indian origin called Madhesis they control the plains.They are in perenial tussle with the hilly born Nepalese.India enjoys almost 100% support among the Madhesis plus the Nepalese Army has a very old and strategic understanding with India.Nepal may temporarily have Chinese influence due to the fact that a communist is their PM they will never be in a position to be Anti India simply because of the reasons stated.

Russia is a Chinese rival.Their relations have not been warm since the Sino Soviet border conflict.

The Chinese havs new found money and financial investments but they are far from being influential because more than India its US/NATO/Japan and even Russia who are countering any increase in Chinese influence.
 
You believe that a US liberated nation Afghanistan will fall into chinese hands?

US "liberated" Iraq yet its oil contracts have mainly gone into Chinese hands, a country which opposed the 2003 invasion. It's not about "liberation" as it's about post liberation. Afghanistan plays a pivotal role in Xi Jiping's One Belt, One Road project and China is already warming up to full-fill its historical role in the country's fortunes.

40% of Nepalese population is of Indian origin called Madhesis they control the plains.They are in perenial tussle with the hilly born Nepalese.India enjoys almost 100% support among the Madhesis plus the Nepalese Army has a very old and strategic understanding with India.Nepal may temporarily have Chinese influence due to the fact that a communist is their PM they will never be in a position to be Anti India simply because of the reasons stated.

I know about Madhesis who I think are related to Biharis. What you're doing is inference. It's not a mathematical rule that Madhesis' "support" for India would be translated into geopolitical switch towards it the way you describe it. That's like saying that 40-45% of Afghanistan are Pashtuns so basically are pro Pakistan.

Russia is a Chinese rival.Their relations have not been warm since the Sino Soviet border conflict.

The Chinese havs new found money and financial investments but they are far from being influential because more than India its US/NATO/Japan and even Russia who are countering any increase in Chinese influence.

There's no more Soviet Union, Putin's Russia is finding a valuable partner in China in order to counter the American-NATO partnership, and talking of "borders", you can see they nowadays support each other when it comes to territorial dispute (Crimea and South China Sea.)
 
US "liberated" Iraq yet its oil contracts have mainly gone into Chinese hands, a country which opposed the 2003 invasion. It's not about "liberation" as it's about post liberation. Afghanistan plays a pivotal role in Xi Jiping's One Belt, One Road project and China is already warming up to full-fill its historical role in the country's fortunes.



I know about Madhesis who I think are related to Biharis. What you're doing is inference. It's not a mathematical rule that Madhesis' "support" for India would be translated into geopolitical switch towards it the way you describe it. That's like saying that 40-45% of Afghanistan are Pashtuns so basically are pro Pakistan.



There's no more Soviet Union, Putin's Russia is finding a valuable partner in China in order to counter the American-NATO partnership, and talking of "borders", you can see they nowadays support each other when it comes to territorial dispute (Crimea and South China Sea.)
Iraq is not Afghanistan.US controls Afghan govt and Afghan govt depends on US to survive.China will only have limited influence in Afghanistan

Madhesis and their leaders openly support India and has been doing so for a long long time.They are Indias strategic assests in Nepal and most of them have family relations in India.There is now a talk of autonomy for madhesh.

Putin is very wary of China and keeps them at a distance.Soviet Union may not exists but the guiding principles remain the same for Russia.Russia opposes Chinese influence in the Eastern European and former Soviet states its a matter of great concern for Russia.Russia is also at loggerheads with China in the Russian far east.

The world has only so much space and in order to increase its influence China has to step into the influence spheres of others which is mainly USA and allies and Russia and allies and others.And none of them is taking that very kindly.
 
Iraq is not Afghanistan.US controls Afghan govt and Afghan govt depends on US to survive.China will only have limited influence in Afghanistan

Madhesis and their leaders openly support India and has been doing so for a long long time.They are Indias strategic assests in Nepal and most of them have family relations in India.There is now a talk of autonomy for madhesh.

Putin is very wary of China and keeps them at a distance.Soviet Union may not exists but the guiding principles remain the same for Russia.Russia opposes Chinese influence in the Eastern European and former Soviet states its a matter of great concern for Russia.Russia is also at loggerheads with China in the Russian far east.

The world has only so much space and in order to increase its influence China has to step into the influence spheres of others which is mainly USA and allies and Russia and allies and others.And none of them is taking that very kindly.

Russia is a dying power. It will either play second fiddle to China or be bullied around by both NATO and China.
 
Indians like to pretend Madhesis are a cohesive ethnic group when it is little more than a geographic appellation. There is no such thing as a madhesi people.
 
Russia is a dying power. It will either play second fiddle to China or be bullied around by both NATO and China.
You wish it was dying.Russians dont get bullied.They bully,Crimea is an example.China doesnt have anywhere as much influence and power as Russia has.China has financial strength but that is newly acquired and can only give them limited influence.The chinese have no strategic allies except Pakistan and by the looks of it will have difficulty gaining many anytime soon with Japan and India opposing them in S-E Asia Russia in Eastern Europe and US elsewhere.
 
Chinese people have suffered a lot during the past few centuries. First at the hands of their dictators, then imperial puppets, Japanese and most recently 1962 war. They deserve to live in peace and be a superpower.
 
You wish it was dying.Russians dont get bullied.They bully,Crimea is an example.China doesnt have anywhere as much influence and power as Russia has.China has financial strength but that is newly acquired and can only give them limited influence.The chinese have no strategic allies except Pakistan and by the looks of it will have difficulty gaining many anytime soon with Japan and India opposing them in S-E Asia Russia in Eastern Europe and US elsewhere.

Your delusions about the strength of Russia aside, the fact of the matter is that their economy is weak and reliant on ressources (which can crumble at the will of NATO as we see in the current Russian recession), the ethnic Russian population declining at rapid pace, the military reliant on low quality weapons that are technologically still in the last century.

Meanwhile the fast growing Caucasian population is a revolution waiting to happen and Russia is universally hated by almost all its neighbors. You spoke about East Europe, do you actually think Russia has any influence left in Finland, Baltics, Poland or Ukraine? It is losing grasp even on Serbia and Mongolia. Basically they only have Belarus, Armenia and India. What mighty alliances :))

If Russia is going to antagonize China while being hated by all its other neighbors then it is done for in international geopolitics.
 
Chinese people have suffered a lot during the past few centuries. First at the hands of their dictators, then imperial puppets, Japanese and most recently 1962 war. They deserve to live in peace and be a superpower.

Now they are suffering at the hands Communists.
 
Iraq is not Afghanistan.US controls Afghan govt and Afghan govt depends on US to survive.China will only have limited influence in Afghanistan

Could you expand on what you mean by "US controls Afghan govt" ? Don't know if it "depends on US to survive", mainly IMF loans and remittances.

The US has totally failed its MENA crusades and its "New World Order".

Madhesis and their leaders openly support India and has been doing so for a long long time.They are Indias strategic assests in Nepal and most of them have family relations in India.There is now a talk of autonomy for madhesh.

Again, even if we agree, that doesn't translate into a geopolitical loyalty to India. Geopolitics are more complex than a set of anthropological datas, otherwise, talking of China, you'd see more enthusiasm in Hong Kong, Taiwan and Singapore for the mainland.

Putin is very wary of China and keeps them at a distance.Soviet Union may not exists but the guiding principles remain the same for Russia.Russia opposes Chinese influence in the Eastern European and former Soviet states its a matter of great concern for Russia.Russia is also at loggerheads with China in the Russian far east.

There are legitimate shock of interests because their civilization indeed extend into Central Asia which de facto translates into tensions over economic interests (like in Uzbekistan) but again struggle to see the picture the way you portray it : you make it sound like another Cold War, Russia-China that time.

The world has only so much space and in order to increase its influence China has to step into the influence spheres of others which is mainly USA and allies and Russia and allies and others.And none of them is taking that very kindly.

China will definitely take Russia's place with the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, it's only a matter of time. It always had the potential but lacked Xi Jiping's One Belt, One Road vision.
 
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/JDjW4Sgh28o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Quit Hilarious really, there is a lot of disinformation out there about russia.
 

Could you expand on what you mean by "US controls Afghan govt" ? Don't know if it "depends on US to survive", mainly IMF loans and remittances.

The US has totally failed its MENA crusades and its "New World Order".

I think you very well understand what i want to say regarding US control over Afghan govt.You really believe that Afghan govt doesnt need US Aid and support to survive and will forsake that for China?


Again, even if we agree, that doesn't translate into a geopolitical loyalty to India. Geopolitics are more complex than a set of anthropological datas, otherwise, talking of China, you'd see more enthusiasm in Hong Kong, Taiwan and Singapore for the mainland.

I dont think you have any idea about the relations between the Madhesis and Pahades.The madhesis have long been oppressed by the ruling Pahades and recent attempt by the Pahades to deny madhesis rights in the constitution resulted in a 4 month long blockade that forced constitutional amendments.There is a civil war kind of situation brewing in the plains,where Madhesis have gone from seeking rights to autonomy to some even talking about independence.The madhesis have traditionally depended on India for support and welfare with even Indian negotiating on their behalf.If a push comes to shove India can ignite a civil war in Nepal and can insulate itself from any chinese influence as Nepalese border with India has majority Madhesi population.


There are legitimate shock of interests because their civilization indeed extend into Central Asia which de facto translates into tensions over economic interests (like in Uzbekistan) but again struggle to see the picture the way you portray it : you make it sound like another Cold War, Russia-China that time.

There neednt be a cold war.A clash of interests in what Russia considers its sphere of influence is more than enough for them to try and contain China in that part of the world.

China will definitely take Russia's place with the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, it's only a matter of time. It always had the potential but lacked Xi Jiping's One Belt, One Road vision.

You wish it could,but it wont.China doesnt have the power to do so.You seem to believe since its SHANGHAI its Chinese influence.Most members of SCO are Russian allies and historic Russian partners.Any attempt by China will be met by very stiff resistance by Russia who will do anything to protect their territory and the extent they can go to is well known.

I know some people believe that China is some kind of giant that can bulldoze everyone,it is not.Its expansion on the west is blocked by Russia,to he south and east lie India and Japan who are themselves forging ties with other countries like Vietnam etc to counter the Chinese.

As i said,China can invest money but the likes of USA Russia has been cultivating these influences for decades and China doesnt have the means to out do them.
 
It's good to have India on a leash. Dangerous customer.
 
I think you very well understand what i want to say regarding US control over Afghan govt.You really believe that Afghan govt doesnt need US Aid and support to survive and will forsake that for China?

The US has no decisive influence on Afghanistan, the latter is not a colony or protectorate. I have no clue on what you're trying to imply. You're overestimating the US' power.

I dont think you have any idea about the relations between the Madhesis and Pahades.The madhesis have long been oppressed by the ruling Pahades and recent attempt by the Pahades to deny madhesis rights in the constitution resulted in a 4 month long blockade that forced constitutional amendments.There is a civil war kind of situation brewing in the plains,where Madhesis have gone from seeking rights to autonomy to some even talking about independence.The madhesis have traditionally depended on India for support and welfare with even Indian negotiating on their behalf.If a push comes to shove India can ignite a civil war in Nepal and can insulate itself from any chinese influence as Nepalese border with India has majority Madhesi population.

I know about the discrimination and the ongoing Madhesi anti-constitutional movement, but what you forget is that a) Madhesis are not 100% of Nepal's population, and even there ethnicity doesn't tell all (refer to my comparison with Afghanistan's Pashtuns when it comes to Pakistan) and b) Nepal's "anti Indianness" is not to prove. That's a telling recent comment from an Indian politician :

Nepal is becoming like Kashmir with anti-India feelings: Nishikant Dubey

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...i-india-feelings-nishikant-dubey-bjp-2795978/

If India messes with China in Nepal, China has many playgrounds, some in India itself (the Naxalites).

There neednt be a cold war.A clash of interests in what Russia considers its sphere of influence is more than enough for them to try and contain China in that part of the world.

You wish it could,but it wont.China doesnt have the power to do so.You seem to believe since its SHANGHAI its Chinese influence.Most members of SCO are Russian allies and historic Russian partners.Any attempt by China will be met by very stiff resistance by Russia who will do anything to protect their territory and the extent they can go to is well known.

Why would I "wish" so ? I've always been pro Russia but it's obvious that the next century belongs to China, and no one denies the conflicting spheres of influence, that's logical when there are many regional powers, but you're talking as if Russia-China relations was like Japan-China. Why don't you just look at the recent news when it comes to their collaboration ?

Also "historic Russian partners" don't mean much. It's mainly because of the Soviet Union that they became "partners" : before that, all these countries were under China's economic/cultural influence ; you can't compare millennia old Chinese civilization and the Silk Road with few decades of Soviet bureaucratization.

Why is Central Asia dumping Russia for China?

In pre-Soviet times, Kazakh, Kyrgyz and Uzbek leaders would utilise relationships to gain wealth for their countries. After the dissolution of the Soviet Union it became more about security, making sure the newly formed states were not overrun by the bigger boys. To this end, Central Asian states entered into regional cooperative organisations with China and Russia like the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) in the hopes of controlling the influence each power exerted on the five nation-states.

Twenty-five years on, this struggle to balance relations has failed and China is now poised to make a spectacular economic conquest of Central Asian markets. In 2015, China became Uzbekistan’s largest trading partner with $3 billion worth of trade and Kazakhstan’s largest investor with 33 deals delivering $23.6 billion to the nation. China has also focused heavily on Turkmenistan’s energy sector where it has been purchasing some 30 billion cubic meters of gas a year since 2009 while providing substantial military aid. China also took over in Kyrgyzstan last month as the builder and partner in two hydro-power projects.
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The reversal in Russia’s dominant role in Central Asia is hardly surprising. Russia’s recent economic woes are well documented. Quite simply, they no longer have the money to support the region. As a result many countries have been left hanging, as is the case of Kyrgyzstan which recently had to cancel a Russian partnership on one of the aforementioned hydro-electric projects due to serious setbacks because of Moscow’s inability to fulfill their commitments.

http://globalriskinsights.com/2016/05/why-central-asia-is-dumping-russia-for-china/

I know some people believe that China is some kind of giant that can bulldoze everyone,it is not.Its expansion on the west is blocked by Russia,to he south and east lie India and Japan who are themselves forging ties with other countries like Vietnam etc to counter the Chinese.

And you think Chinese would just sit and play chess ? What do you think are they doing with Pakistan, Sri Lanka, etc ?

As i said,China can invest money but the likes of USA Russia has been cultivating these influences for decades and China doesnt have the means to out do them.

The US will be kicked out of this region pretty soon, take note.
 
India really made a mess out of Nepal. A natural ally and a country which controls a lot of their water ressources yet they have driven it into the arms of China due to Indian obsession with bullying Nepal around. Not too disimilar from what happened with Russia in Georgia.
 
India cannot beat China in a conventional war. The loss will be too much to take. Similarly China will suffer heavy losses too. It might set them back by decades and they are not stupid to undo the progress they made in the past 50 yrs.

USA is India's only hope. USA also sees India as a tool which it can use to counter China's hegemony. Basically India and China will do anything to pull each other's leg and make them fall. Something what India and Pakistan have been doing for over 60 yrs.
Nobody is really a friend or ally in this global politics. Everyone supports other for their own gain.

What I do not understand is that China is already huge. Why would they want Tibet, India's North East, Taiwan etc is beyond me. How much greedy can a nation get?

Neither countries are stupid enough to engage in a war with another, it will never happen. The UN will put sanction on both countries and economical impact will wayyyyy too much for both to go at war with each other. Both countries know this very well, this military build up just a show off, every countries do it, it has become a habit.
 
India really made a mess out of Nepal. A natural ally and a country which controls a lot of their water ressources yet they have driven it into the arms of China due to Indian obsession with bullying Nepal around. Not too disimilar from what happened with Russia in Georgia.

Georgia attacked Russia IIRC, not the other way round. More recently, Russia took Crimea with NATO only making noise. Western leaders aren't focused on China, their focus is on Russia now along with the tensions brewing about Trump becoming President which is looking likely.
 
Lanka conquered by China.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1348395/china-signs-long-delayed-15-billion-port-deal-with-sri-lanka

Sri Lanka's government on Saturday signed a long-delayed agreement to sell a 70-percent stake in a $1.5 billion port to China in a bid to recover from the heavy burden of repaying a Chinese loan obtained to build the facility
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The Chinese company will be responsible for commercial operations while the Sri Lanka Ports Authority will handle security. The lease period is 99 years.

Think its done finally Lanka,Pak,and soon Bangladesh,Nepal all will have Chinese influence and India will have no answer,we will have Bhutan though :P
 
Afghanistan is also jumping on Chinese ship.

Afghanistan needs infra help and any country that can do it in record time its China,although India has some good will there but we don't share any border with them,it only matters in terms of middle eastern politics to us,Chinese extending influence there won't hurt as much as the other countries.
 
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True so what's indian plan to counter it?

India can't compete with China in funding investing projects,GOI doesn't have that sort of Money,also as i edited in my above post,India has goodwill there but on overall scale don't think India can counter Chinese influence across SC,Chinese have so much money they can easily pay off leaders to create dissent in India and hatred against us.
 
India can't compete with China in funding investing projects,GOI doesn't have that sort of Money,also as i edited in my above post,India has goodwill there but on overall scale don't think India can counter Chinese influence across SC,Chinese have so much money they can easily pay off leaders to create dissent in India and hatred against us.

India doesn't have to counter China for anything. It is not a zero sum game for India and China.

India's problems and solutions are internal. If it fixes its infrastructure, labor laws etc., it will keep growing economically.

While China's military is bigger, the Indian armaments (especially planes) acquired from the West are probably technologically more advanced. Hence a war between the two nations will cause both a lot of harm, and till now their leaders realize that and reduce tensions whenever war seems like a possibility.
 
Said that all along! Only thing India can do is beg for "talks". China isn't interested in talks and if need be is ready for conflict.
 
India can't compete with China in funding investing projects,GOI doesn't have that sort of Money,also as i edited in my above post,India has goodwill there but on overall scale don't think India can counter Chinese influence across SC,Chinese have so much money they can easily pay off leaders to create dissent in India and hatred against us.

India and Japan have already joined hands to counter the chinese investments.

http://thediplomat.com/2017/06/thinking-africa-india-japan-and-the-asia-africa-growth-corridor/

Many countries in the South China Sea are wary of Japanese imperalistic designs.The likes of Vietnam are increasingly taking Indian help to shore up their defences.Australia and SoKo are also trying to get together with India and Japan to counter the chinese hegemony.

Coming to Lanka first, nearly 25% of the lankan population are Tamil Speaking and have big affinity towards India.India also has big influence on the Buddhist religious leaders.How do you think that the SinoPhilic Rajapakse lost 2 elections in a row? This port agreement of Hembantota specifically lays out that no Chinese military ship can dock there.In addition to that Sri Lanka will give India(Japan is likely to join)the rights to develop and operate the Trincomalee port.So chinese designs to use Lanka as a port of call for its Navy isnt going to work.

Nepal:Remember that nearly 45% of nepalese population,called the Madhesi who inhabitate the Plains are of Indian origin.They have been traditionally dominated by the Nepalese Rulers who were from the hills.Now the hilly people tried to continue that domination and exploitation which resulted in the Terai Andolan last year and finally receded after India intervened.

Maldives: They are already fighting among themselves with one faction supporting India other China.


There are enough countries that are ****** off with the chinese and while alone they may not have the resources,together they have more than enough to counter the chinese.
 
Said that all along! Only thing India can do is beg for "talks". China isn't interested in talks and if need be is ready for conflict.

Unlike a few other countries India isnt in the need to "beg" anyone.
 
India doesn't have to counter China for anything. It is not a zero sum game for India and China.

India's problems and solutions are internal. If it fixes its infrastructure, labor laws etc., it will keep growing economically.

While China's military is bigger, the Indian armaments (especially planes) acquired from the West are probably technologically more advanced. Hence a war between the two nations will cause both a lot of harm, and till now their leaders realize that and reduce tensions whenever war seems like a possibility.

? Not speaking about war that's not happening ,its about influence and debt.
 
India and Japan have already joined hands to counter the chinese investments.

http://thediplomat.com/2017/06/thinking-africa-india-japan-and-the-asia-africa-growth-corridor/

Many countries in the South China Sea are wary of Japanese imperalistic designs.The likes of Vietnam are increasingly taking Indian help to shore up their defences.Australia and SoKo are also trying to get together with India and Japan to counter the chinese hegemony.

Coming to Lanka first, nearly 25% of the lankan population are Tamil Speaking and have big affinity towards India.India also has big influence on the Buddhist religious leaders.How do you think that the SinoPhilic Rajapakse lost 2 elections in a row? This port agreement of Hembantota specifically lays out that no Chinese military ship can dock there.In addition to that Sri Lanka will give India(Japan is likely to join)the rights to develop and operate the Trincomalee port.So chinese designs to use Lanka as a port of call for its Navy isnt going to work.

Nepal:Remember that nearly 45% of nepalese population,called the Madhesi who inhabitate the Plains are of Indian origin.They have been traditionally dominated by the Nepalese Rulers who were from the hills.Now the hilly people tried to continue that domination and exploitation which resulted in the Terai Andolan last year and finally receded after India intervened.

Maldives: They are already fighting among themselves with one faction supporting India other China.


There are enough countries that are ****** off with the chinese and while alone they may not have the resources,together they have more than enough to counter the chinese.

No Chinese Military ship might be docked for now,but Chinese operating a port itself should be a big signal as to how it can go out of hand,the lease is mighty stupid of Lankans but i get it,they were in debt trap hardly any go for them.
 
Afghanistan needs infra help and any country that can do it in record time its China,although India has some good will there but we don't share any border with them,it only matters in terms of middle eastern politics to us,Chinese extending influence there won't hurt as much as the other countries.

That would actually stabilize the region. China would force Afghanistan to get along with Pakistan no matter what leaders might say. It would also see the end of all these ridiculous extremist groups as neither Pakistan or Afghanistan will want to annoy their major benefactor.
 
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:))) absolutely spot on about China this American guy :)))
 
No Chinese Military ship might be docked for now,but Chinese operating a port itself should be a big signal as to how it can go out of hand,the lease is mighty stupid of Lankans but i get it,they were in debt trap hardly any go for them.

Payra port in BD
Chabahar Port in Iran
Trincomalee Port in Lanka

These 3 ports are being or will be developed by India and likely Japan.More ports and investments will be see in vietnam etc.
 
LOL this guy is hilarious :rp I mean the was he is saying stuff


 
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