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"India far better side than Pakistan in Test cricket" : Saurav Ganguly

Bilal7 said:
No, still garbage like your posts, chacha. India would have suffered a defeat if they had to bat fourth on that pitch too.
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Against the 8th ranked Test team? That too 81 All Out? :))) :)))

That's your imagination, while what I've stated above is a fact.
 
Hitman said:
Against the 8th ranked Test team? That too 81 All Out? :))) :)))

That's your imagination, while what I've stated above is a fact.
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I didn't read what you stated above and have no interest in doing so. Rankings don't take many things into account and don't have much bearing on what went down on that last day pitch.

If you're happy with Pakistan's loss, good for you. Just stop pestering me with your nonsense.
 
Bilal7 said:
No, still garbage like your posts, chacha. India would have suffered a defeat if they had to bat fourth on that pitch too.
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Really ? What crystal ball have you been using ? Because I always thought cricket's an unpredictable game , moreso if you a pakistani fan :babar
 
Ganguly's statement came out after Pakistan returned from England tour and they had yet to play in NZ and OZ. Frankly at that time Pakistan did seem like a better team and thus in the context of the timeline of this thread, he was perhaps wrong.

Of course if we are discussing at the moment, you have to be one-eyed Pak fan to consider Pak as good as or better than India.
 
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Chrish said:
Ganguly's statement came out after Pakistan returned from England tour and they had yet to play in NZ and OZ. <b>Frankly at that time Pakistan did seem like a better team and thus in the context of the timeline of this thread, he was perhaps wrong.</b>

Of course if we are discussing at the moment, you have to be one-eyed Pak fan to consider Pak as good as or better than India.
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Or perhaps he was a better judge of cricketing ability and was not deceived. Maybe he understood that England was a weak team which was later underscored by the thrashing they received, let's see India 759/7d :excitedtroll
 
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bleaf27 said:
Really ? What crystal ball have you been using ? Because I always thought cricket's an unpredictable game , moreso if you a pakistani fan :babar
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Just going by their performance against O'Keefe on a wicket that was turning square. Not only was that pitch offering vicious turn and seam movement, there was also the danger of irregular bounce.

Apart from Pujara and Rahul, I am quite confident that the other Indian bats wouldn't score more than 15 runs in those conditions. The result would be an Indian loss just like it was when they batted fourth in conditions of similar difficulty against O'Keefe and co.

Pakistan have been better than India in test cricket for around five years now but losing Misbah and Younis will put both teams neck and neck or India slightly ahead.
 
Bilal7 said:
Just going by their performance against O'Keefe on a wicket that was turning square. Not only was that pitch offering vicious turn and seam movement, there was also the danger of irregular bounce.

Apart from Pujara and Rahul, I am quite confident that the other Indian bats wouldn't score more than 15 runs in those conditions. The result would be an Indian loss just like it was when they batted fourth in conditions of similar difficulty against O'Keefe and co.

Pakistan have been better than India in test cricket for around five years now but losing Misbah and Younis will put both teams neck and neck or India slightly ahead.
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WI did not even bowl any spinners on that pitch. and the WI pacers were not doing any magic , on a terribly turning square track - playing against a spinner is much harder than navigating against seamers. WI did not capitalize on the spin at all - It was quite poor execution on Pakistani batsman behalf - which again has nothing to do with the pitch but mental fragility. Amir and Sarfaraz had no issues navigating runs - it was the lack of approach and playing defensively on a pitch where you need to attack and spend less time in the middle. Most of the wickets that fell were poor shots except YK

I'd quite disagree about Pakistan being better than India in tests in the last 5 years but there's another place for that discussion I believe.
 
If we're being honest India is the better test team. They are ahead in all 3 departments.
 
Bilal7 said:
Just going by their performance against O'Keefe on a wicket that was turning square. Not only was that pitch offering vicious turn and seam movement, there was also the danger of irregular bounce.

Apart from Pujara and Rahul, I am quite confident that the other Indian bats wouldn't score more than 15 runs in those conditions. The result would be an Indian loss just like it was when they batted fourth in conditions of similar difficulty against O'Keefe and co.

Pakistan have been better than India in test cricket for around five years now but losing Misbah and Younis will put both teams neck and neck or India slightly ahead.
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Yes better than india bcoz they have managed to loose a test against the great zim team and two tests including one at home against the mighty west indies. Can you please explain how they have been better
 
Napa said:
Or perhaps he was a better judge of cricketing ability and was not deceived. Maybe he understood that England was a weak team which was later underscored by the thrashing they received, let's see India 759/7d
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The best Phainta was Eng 1st inngs 400 (Mumbai) and then went on to lose by an inngs and there were approx 2 sessions of play left on Day 5. Over to Chennai and they thought after making 477 this match was beyond India Enter Rahul and Nair and then Jadeja ... and they lost by an Inngs with more than an hours play left on Day5. They would have lost both tests even if they had made 500 runs in their 1st inngs. Epic
 
Teshi98 said:
Yes better than india bcoz they have managed to loose a test against the great zim team and two tests including one at home against the mighty west indies. Can you please explain how they have been better
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81 All Out against the 8th ranked team. The only ones below them in rankings are Bangla and Zimbos. Add to that, it was the C team of the West Indies :))
 
Bilal7 said:
Just going by their performance against O'Keefe on a wicket that was turning square. Not only was that pitch offering vicious turn and seam movement, there was also the danger of irregular bounce.
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So losing one match to Aus is the same as losing 3 matches to minnows WI (2) and Zim(1) ? Do you realize that Pak has also lost matches to NZ and RSA and SL and WI at home ? Do you realize that you have never seen in your or anyones lifetime a SL team beat India in India ?

BTW The next match at Bengaluru was also played on a square turner what happened there ?




Apart from Pujara and Rahul, I am quite confident that the other Indian bats wouldn't score more than 15 runs in those conditions. The result would be an Indian loss just like it was when they batted fourth in conditions of similar difficulty against O'Keefe and co.
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But I thought you said India only wins on doctored home pitches ? changed your mind now ?


Pakistan have been better than India in test cricket for around five years now but losing Misbah and Younis will put both teams neck and neck or India slightly ahead.
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According to who ? Why do the Stats tell a different Story as does the ranking ?

Overall: W/L = 2.454 / 0.8

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...span;team=6;team=7;template=results;type=team

Away: W/L = 0.625 / 0.437

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...span;team=6;team=7;template=results;type=team

Home: W/L = 7.333 / 2.25

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...span;team=6;team=7;template=results;type=team

All in favor of India
 
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bleaf27 said:
WI did not even bowl any spinners on that pitch. and the WI pacers were not doing any magic , on a terribly turning square track - playing against a spinner is much harder than navigating against seamers. WI did not capitalize on the spin at all - It was quite poor execution on Pakistani batsman behalf - which again has nothing to do with the pitch but mental fragility. Amir and Sarfaraz had no issues navigating runs - it was the lack of approach and playing defensively on a pitch where you need to attack and spend less time in the middle. Most of the wickets that fell were poor shots except YK

I'd quite disagree about Pakistan being better than India in tests in the last 5 years but there's another place for that discussion I believe.
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Pakistan play spin quite well and better than India. The Windies did the right thing by asking their tall pacers to bowl their hearts out on a pitch that had uneven bounce and of course, if it spins it cuts as well, all of which made it extremely difficult to bat on. It's easy to look silly in hindsight when you get caught playing on the backfoot to a delivery that doesn't bounce, however the batsman wasn't at fault, the uneven bounce duped him.

You can disagree if you want but losing some of their greatest players, getting whitewashed in two consecutive away series in Australia and England, losing a series to England at home, displaying an inability to play spin or swing well as a unit and having a bowling attack that works only in specific conditions is enough to keep India below Pakistan for me. However, like you said, this is a discussion for another day.
 
Still impressed by Dada's unusually good understanding of the game . The gulf between the test teams is quite big now and getting bigger.
 
Bilal7 said:
Pakistan play spin quite well and better than India.
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Like when Bishoo ran thru the great Pakistani batting lineup just 6 months ago at home ? Or Mark Craig :)))


You can disagree if you want but losing some of their greatest players, getting whitewashed in two consecutive away series in Australia and England, losing a series to England at home,
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That was 4 yrs ago ... Pakistan got whitewashed in AUS and NZ less than 6 months ago !!! How long are you going to cling to that Drawn England series ? :))

displaying an inability to play spin or swing well as a unit and having a bowling attack that works only in specific conditions is enough to keep India below Pakistan for me. However, like you said, this is a discussion for another day.
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Why because we lost ONE Test to Aus as opposed to 2 Tests to WI + One to Zim + One to SAF + One to NZ ... in the last 3 yrs ? Yep that makes a lot of sense. :)))
 
One on one, you can never guess whats gonna happen when India and Pakistan clash except for in world cups and at borders. It is true no matter how bad, the current Indian team won't lose to West Indies or Zimbabwe like Pakistan but historically things even up when we are pitched against each other because logically Pakistan's 90s team too was well ahead on papers and in terms of overall record but somehow Indians too managed to turn the odds in their favour. When Pakistan last toured India, seriously who would have thought they would beat India in LOIs, on paper and repo wise India were way ahead but still lost. So you can't tell and thats the beauty of it.
 
We were told just a few days ago that Sri Lanka losing 3-0 to India meant that they were a mediocre test side and Pakistan, a vastly superior side would crush Sri Lanka with ease. :srini
 
I agree with Dada on this specially after YK and Misbah
 
Dada is a great cricketing analyst, although it is to be expected from the greatest captain from the subcontinent :srini
 
squarecut said:
We were told just a few days ago that Sri Lanka losing 3-0 to India meant that they were a mediocre test side and Pakistan, a vastly superior side would crush Sri Lanka with ease. :srini
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That SL team was different..This one is renewed with energy
 
amax said:
I agree with Dada on this specially after YK and Misbah
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With YK and Misbah the Max Pakistan could have is draw which is no less than loss to current SL. SL bowling is really not good. Bright future in batting department.
 
mp812rediff said:
That SL team was different..This one is renewed with energy
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which is because of you guys playing ultra defensive which will put even snail to shame, and this pitch by no means was a minefield add to that it had slow turn, you just had to negotiate herath but your batters made perara look like second coming of murlidharan.
 
Sri Lanka to tour India next month

Herath gets a second shot against us, lets see how this renergized sri lankan team does :msd
 
Thread is a meaningless one and bumps are also not warranted. India has been a better test side than Pakistan for most part of the last two decades. What's the point of bumping it?
 
India has been better than Pakistan since i started watching cricket in 1999
 
LastManstanding said:
What Ganguly said was true an year ago too, it's just easier for our Pakistani brothers to see it now.
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But the discussion was about who is better a year ago, and Ganguly said India is 'far better' right after we drew a series IN England.

I trust any sensible person can see why that 'far better' logic might be questioned. :misbah3
 
Abdullah719 said:
Except that it doesn't make sense unless Ganguly is a fortune-teller. :srini
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Isnt that what analysts are supposed to do. Analyse data and facts, including those that might not be obvious, and predict/state conclusions. Anyone can state that the sun will rise tomorrow, or that a non asian team will struggle in Asia. But to state conclusions that are not obvious is what an analysts does.

I didnt agree with him when he made the statement. But it seems like his prediction might be true, and I was wrong.
 
Abdullah719 said:
But the discussion was about who is better a year ago, and Ganguly said India is 'far better' right after we drew a series IN England.

I trust any sensible person can see why that 'far better' logic might be questioned. :misbah3
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bhai indian posters are just rubbing it on pak fans like pak fans do after every bad indian performance.
 
Abdullah719 said:
But the discussion was about who is better a year ago, and Ganguly said India is 'far better' right after we drew a series IN England.

I trust any sensible person can see why that 'far better' logic might be questioned. :misbah3
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Every tom, dick and harry can analyse based on series results, it takes a real analyst to see the potential despite the results, and dada was right even a year ago when he said India was far better despite Pak drawing a series in lanka, because dada could see the potential of players of both teams. Now everyone knows India is far far better than Pakistan but only real cricket analysts like dada could see it even a year ago :srini
 
Abdullah719 said:
Ganguly could see into the future? :srt
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Nothing to do with future predicting business .... Ganguly assessed the quality of Pakistans Test cricket achievements based on existing evidence that was infront of him (incl that Eng Series) and he has been proven right over a significant period of time beginning almost immediately after that comment.
 
Snow said:
India has been better than Pakistan since i started watching cricket in 1999
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Ahh, so you must have just missed the Sachin shaking at the legs series and the phainty in the one dayers. :akhtar
 
It's not about predicting the future. The same team that drew the series in England got walloped in NZ/AUS and lost two tests to Windies so even with Misyou it wasn't a great team. Pakistan's no.1 ranking at that time was only because one of our matches got rained out. India has been much more consistent for two and a half years in test cricket, beating just about everyone unlike Pakistan and therefore we were better even then. Yes we haven't toured yet but honestly dominance does count for a lot especially since Pakistan are poor even in the UAE. Dada was simply stating the obvious.
 
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Nikhil_cric said:
It's not about predicting the future. The same team that drew the series in England got walloped in NZ/AUS and lost two tests to Windies so even with Misyou it wasn't a great team. Pakistan's no.1 ranking at that time was only because one of our matches got rained out. India has been much more consistent for two and a half years in test cricket, beating just about everyone unlike Pakistan and therefore we were better even then. Yes we haven't toured yet but honestly dominance does count for a lot especially since Pakistan are poor even in the UAE. Dada was simply stating the obvious.
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Poor in the UAE ?? Lol this was the first test that they have ever lost at abu dhabi . Yet to lose a series in the Uae .
Yes india are a better test team at present but these sorts of results do happen .India lost to an australian team that is worse than Srilanka in Asian conditions.
 
ethan hunt said:
Poor in the UAE ?? Lol this was the first test that they have ever lost at abu dhabi . Yet to lose a series in the Uae .
Yes india are a better test team at present but these sorts of results do happen .India lost to an australian team that is worse than Srilanka in Asian conditions.
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Even South Africa and NZ are yet to lose a series in UAE :yk, not losing a series at "home" is not an achievement, south africa, nz and lanka have all drawn the series in UAE, you've only won against england and australia (and the mighty windies against whom also you lost a match in uae)

Not a very impressive record, I must say :srini
 
ethan hunt said:
Poor in the UAE ?? Lol this was the first test that they have ever lost at abu dhabi . Yet to lose a series in the Uae .
Yes india are a better test team at present but these sorts of results do happen .India lost to an australian team that is worse than Srilanka in Asian conditions.
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Losing to Australia at home is much more respectable than losing to Windies anywhere. Drawing series in the UAE is not a big accomplishment for Pakistan. If Pakistan can't even win consistently by big margins in the UAE of all places , then there really was nocomparison with India in the first place.
 
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Few niggles are expected when the team is in transition period, no?
 
Chrish said:
Few niggles are expected when the team is in transition period, no?
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While there is no doubt that India is the superior team, after all it is #1 by a margin of 15 points, however Pakistan again showed it can turn in an unexpectedly good performance with its sixth wkt partnership.

Pakistan needs to be a more professional side. Being 5 down for 52 when there was nothing much in the wicket won't do!
 
Chrish said:
Few niggles are expected when the team is in transition period, no?
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Well, you have to compare their transition with SL. SL is a team with newbies as well. It was a poor performance to get white washed at home. Team played poorly, but playing only one spinner in UAE can't be due to transition.
 
Gangulies insight on the game is impressive but anyone who following the game should know that india is far superior side to pakistan in longer formats,you didn't need a master cricketing brain to say this.Only blind fans would think otherway
 
Buffet said:
Well, you have to compare their transition with SL. SL is a team with newbies as well. It was a poor performance to get white washed at home. Team played poorly, but playing only one spinner in UAE can't be due to transition.
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Mickey shamelessly claimed that the spinners available for selection were no "Yasir Shah or Saeed Ajmal". Pathetic attempt at justification of a moronic pace-centric strategy. I can even forgive the blunder for the 1st test, but to stubbornly make the some dumb mistake in the 2nd test, when you are already down 1-0 is inexcusable. Arthur may be a good coach in terms of imposing discipline. But he has a very poor track record on tactics.
 
IndYeah1 said:
Mickey shamelessly claimed that the spinners available for selection were no "Yasir Shah or Saeed Ajmal". Pathetic attempt at justification of a moronic pace-centric strategy. I can even forgive the blunder for the 1st test, but to stubbornly make the some dumb mistake in the 2nd test, when you are already down 1-0 is inexcusable. Arthur may be a good coach in terms of imposing discipline. But he has a very poor track record on tactics.
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Boss I have to agree with Mickey as you skittled Lankans for 130 odd runs before Wahab and Haris cleaned them again for 96 which is an achievement in itself. The second spinner would have been effective on the 3rd and 4th day onwards in UAE...
 
Buffet said:
Well, you have to compare their transition with SL. SL is a team with newbies as well. It was a poor performance to get white washed at home. Team played poorly, but playing only one spinner in UAE can't be due to transition.
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True but Lanka has been going through for a while now. Pak on the other hand just lost their two best players in SC. I don't think this whitewash is shameful or anything.

It's to be expected. They need to figure out 2nd spinner issue though.
 
mystical man said:
Boss I have to agree with Mickey as you skittled Lankans for 130 odd runs before Wahab and Haris cleaned them again for 96 which is an achievement in itself. The second spinner would have been effective on the 3rd and 4th day onwards in UAE...
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Then you are as much of a fool as Mickey is. Look at Dilruwan Perera's performance in the 2nd test. Did he do better than Abbas did for Pakistan? I don't think Perera is any more "talented" than the likes of an Asghar or one of his peers.
 
Our team is only good for doing salutes and push-ups for the camera. A Pakistan vs India Test series anywhere in the world right now would be a thrashing of epic proportions. They are levels above us in all three departments.
 
Hitman said:
So what!! They are still the best team in Asia by defaut.
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Best team by default because they had drawn a series against England but conveniently ignore that sl has won the series there.

But but but whitewashes against sa, aus, nz, sl, losing 2 matches against wi will not be under consideration
 
Napa said:
While there is no doubt that India is the superior team, after all it is #1 by a margin of 15 points, however Pakistan again showed it can turn in an unexpectedly good performance with its sixth wkt partnership.

Pakistan needs to be a more professional side. Being 5 down for 52 when there was nothing much in the wicket won't do!
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That partnership developed because they were not playing for the win after 53/5. Things like that happen pretty often. As soon as they sensed that they could win the match they panicked and lost their wickets. Sri Lanka had to play the waiting game after taking 5 wickets for just 53 runs.
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
That partnership developed because they were not playing for the win after 53/5. Things like that happen pretty often. As soon as they sensed that they could win the match they panicked and lost their wickets. Sri Lanka had to play the waiting game after taking 5 wickets for just 53 runs.
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What you say is true. They were able to play more freely.

I think the Pakistani players need to develop a more "professional" attitude. The talent is there to do much better. If they collapse due to mental pressure, that is not what you expect from a national team. Especially the way Babar, Azhar and Sohail got out, these guys should have done much better on a wicket that was not too bad for batting. Not much should have been expected from Masood and Aslam though, they simply don't have the ability.
 
Mamoon said:
Our team is only good for doing salutes and push-ups for the camera. A Pakistan vs India Test series anywhere in the world right now would be a thrashing of epic proportions. They are levels above us in all three departments.
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There is a part of me which definitely wishes that the Indian government would clear 10 Tests (5 Tests series in each country) so that the lifetime record between the 2 countries could be "corrected" :)
 
Napa said:
There is a part of me which definitely wishes that the Indian government would clear 10 Tests (5 Tests series in each country) so that the lifetime record between the 2 countries could be "corrected" :)
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LOL.You are not the only one.
 
Primary reason is India's bench strength is better. India lost so many good players. But their system keeps churning out batsmen. With Pakistan this is not the case. If you think about it when Misba started his career he was laughed at. He was made fun of. An average player with sheer determination turned himself into a reliable, solid test batsman for Pakistan. Younis khan was another guy who lived largely in the shadows of Inzi and Moyo. When they left he picked up the baton. Misba joined. But now these two have left, there is no one to pick up the baton. Pakistan has lot of headaches. As usual until they find some class batsmen they have to heavily rely on bowlers dismissing oppositions cheaply.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Primary reason is India's bench strength is better. India lost so many good players. But their system keeps churning out batsmen. With Pakistan this is not the case. If you think about it when Misba started his career he was laughed at. He was made fun of. An average player with sheer determination turned himself into a reliable, solid test batsman for Pakistan. Younis khan was another guy who lived largely in the shadows of Inzi and Moyo. When they left he picked up the baton. Misba joined. But now these two have left, there is no one to pick up the baton. Pakistan has lot of headaches. As usual until they find some class batsmen they have to heavily rely on bowlers dismissing oppositions cheaply.
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Not only Pakistan but other countries like Lanka and Australia that are still recovering from loosing their match winning players...
 
This is not even a question. We are indeed far superior to Pakistan in Test cricket and that gap is only going to increase in the future, as we have some exciting pacers coming through.
 
And Dada's words ring true even today. Series results of NZ in UAE , PAK in SA, IND in OZ prove beyond a doubt that Dada is a better cricketing analyst than anyone in other South Asian countries. What great insight ! :bow:
 
Nikhil_cric said:
And Dada's words ring true even today. Series results of NZ in UAE , PAK in SA, IND in OZ prove beyond a doubt that Dada is a better cricketing analyst than anyone in other South Asian countries. What great insight ! :bow:
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Lol no.
That was in 2016 when we had younis and misbah.
 
Ronaldo7 said:
Lol no.
That was in 2016 when we had younis and misbah.
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Losing 2 tests to windies and getting whitewashed in NZ/OZ also happened with Misbah/YK in the team. We were better then and we are much better now. Dada alone had the foresight to see this. :)
 
Back in 2016 (when Dada actually made this statement) , Pakistan were slightly better than India.

But now gulf in quality of both the test teams is huge. :ssmith

All thanks to legend inzi and Mickey.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Losing 2 tests to windies and getting whitewashed in NZ/OZ also happened with Misbah/YK in the team. We were better then and we are much better now. Dada alone had the foresight to see this. :)
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Forgotten how we thrashed aus in 2014?
 
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