Yea deep down inside they still know a Chennai Test can happen again
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"India far better side than Pakistan in Test cricket" : Saurav Ganguly
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Yea deep down inside they still know a Chennai Test can happen again
I did not count that as it was not a knock-out match for us ... but technically you are right as it was a must win game for Pakistan
. In 2007 we did win the T20 Worldcup knocking out guess who ....is that worse than the epic phainty dished out by Sehwag at Multan that ended the career of Saqi ?
Here is the scorecard to refresh your memory : http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64081.html
So you see its not like we don't know what it is to beat the heck out of your teams but you know nothing about single handedly evicting your bitter rivals from a prestigious WorldCup ... you just don't . End of story. But please continue to live in the past on kitply cup cup and cola cups.
)is that worse than the epic phainty dished out by Sehwag at Multan that ended the career of Saqi ?
Here is the scorecard to refresh your memory : http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64081.html
So you see its not like we don't know what it is to beat the heck out of your teams but you know nothing about single handedly evicting your bitter rivals from a prestigious WorldCup ... you just don't . End of story. But please continue to live in the past on kitply cup cup and cola cups.
Games that you severely lost, enough for Manjrekar to admit publicly that we were afraid of playing Pakistan in those times, it was a mental block and a traumatic experience for your countrymen
I think its worse, having the opposition 6 down in your home conditions, but still end up losing the match
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Hitman
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Only if current Pakistani players put that much effort into playing their game as you do in trolling, you guys would not be skipping games to avoid missing qualification for major tournaments.
You can keep living in the La La land of 20th century, we have been owning you for the 21st century across all formats.
Or maybe even in something else that they have the reputation for
Only if current Pakistani players put that much effort into playing their game as you do in trolling, you guys would not be skipping games to avoid missing qualification for major tournaments.
You can keep living in the La La land of 20th century, we have been owning you for the 21st century across all formats.
Not even willing to play a home series against Pak post 2007...
) talks about owning them...I remember a certain Aanay do Series vs India in 2012-13.. that was the only ODI series lost by India in a while to any team
Ofcourse you guys don't watch that matches, because you get amnesia talking about any other match besides the World Cup
Not even willing to play a home series against Pak post 2007...
I remember a certain Aanay do Series vs India in 2012-13.. that was the only ODI series lost by India in a while to any team
Ofcourse you guys don't watch that matches, because you get amnesia talking about any other match besides the World Cup
Caution: Following attachment might jolt you into reality!
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...anval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=team
Funny how you keep repeating that without ever comming up with a shred of evidence. Keep in mind that Manjrekars biggest Cricketing achievement was his performance against Pakistan in that series in 1989 where he made 500+ runs.
See if you can even find an old thread here on PP that discusses of this "afraid " theory.
blue_champion
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A team that is 1,4 and 2...even that 4 being a caveat where they are only 1 point behind the No.3 side against a team that is ranked 7,8 and 6...sure doesn't take a genius to figure out.
I always laughed off at Pakistani players especially from their golden age bringing in India as a benchmark or to prove a point but embarrassed to see even Ganguly falling for the same bait.
It is nto even a contest at the moment
I always laughed off at Pakistani players especially from their golden age bringing in India as a benchmark or to prove a point but embarrassed to see even Ganguly falling for the same bait.
It is nto even a contest at the moment
Gotham Cronie
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You can keep living in the La La land of 20th century, we have been owning you for the 21st century across all formats.
From January 1, 2001 on:
Tests:
India: 4
Pakistan: 3
Draw: 5
ODIs:
India: 22
Pakistan: 20
T20Is:
India: 6
Pakistan: 1
Tied: 1
Pretty sad that this is the best that the strongest India side has been able to do vs the weakest Pakistan side in recent times.
Yes, and since the beginning of time, since cricket was known to man, one thing has beaten Pakistan has been beaten India more often in all the games they have played together... and any further arguement beyond that is frivelous, we are statistically a better team than you head to head... please accept facts and move on
Even Dhoni has admitted those facts, first try to win more games than us before atleast...
We could've done the same to India back then (refused to play), when the difference between victories of both sides was almost half... it would've looked really good on paper
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Clearly India is satisfied with their recent performances against Pakistan.. and are contempt that they have reduced the gap between Pakistan and them to 20 matches.. settling for mediocrity I must say, or maybe they are afraid the gap might between victories of Pak/India will become twice again )
Even at their prime they managed to lose a home series to us in 2012.. when they were world champions too)
)Even at their prime they managed to lose a home series to us in 2012.. when they were world champions too
)
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Rather than individual matches series wins should be given higher priority. It's up to you how you count worldcup matches though. :75:
blue_champion
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Clearly India is satisfied with their recent performances against Pakistan.. and are contempt that they have reduced the gap between Pakistan and them to 20 matches.. settling for mediocrity I must say, or maybe they are afraid the gap might between victories of Pak/India will become twice again
Even at their prime they managed to lose a home series to us in 2012.. when they were world champions too
Yep we lost the series 2-1 a series pretty much no one remembers bar Pakistanis like those obscure Sharjah games
Sure we remember some losses against pak which have had an impact or have been memorable...may be the Miandad 6,The Chennai and Kolkata tests, 2009 CT game,Saeed Anwar 194 game,Karachi test etc...I mean every win and loss between these games have been like yawn whatever except WC games.
The gap between India and Pakistan is now much wider than it was 10 or 15 years ago.
Gotham Cronie
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From January 1, 2001 on:
Test Series:
India: 2
Pakistan: 1
Draw: 1
ODI Series:
India: 3
Pakistan: 3
Draw: 1
T20I Series:
Draw: 1
There you go. Pretty pathetic that an Indian side at their prime has been at par with one of the weakest periods of Pakistan cricket.
I see you have completely erased worldcup matches there. Does it hurt you that much?
Gotham Cronie
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Indian fan claims they have dominated Pakistan across all 3 formats in the 21st century.
Facts presented
But but but what about actual series results?
Facts presented
But but but what about World Cups?
It is pretty pathetic that your win ratio against India has been when we were weak.
Hasan123
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Indian posters are going OTT to think it would be a cakewalk, at the same time our fans are going OTT to think we would easily or were certain to win.
It would be a competitive series with either team capeble of winning. I don't have a problem if someone thinks India will win but thinking it will be easy win for either side is something which I don't agree with.
It would be a competitive series with either team capeble of winning. I don't have a problem if someone thinks India will win but thinking it will be easy win for either side is something which I don't agree with.
Well you completely ignored his original point in the post to which you replied. And that point was "it's up to you how you count worldcup matches though"
Not surprising that you have quietly ignored the WorldCup matches .... unwanted memories I suppose ?
Sadevdesai
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Can't argue with that ..... in all 3 formats the Indians are ahead of us !!!!!!
Gotham Cronie
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Here is the original post that I replied to:
But regardless, unlike Indian fans, we don't hide behind reality. Pakistan has been sad and awful vs India in World Cups. 0-8 or so in the period being discussed. Pakistan isn't hiding from India in World Cups so your point?
It's the BCCI that appears to be hiding from Pakistan when they've seen that even at their peak point, they've been at par with the weak point of Pakistan cricket head to head in bilateral series
Maybe you but certainly not majority of Pakistani fans .... you have specimens right here on this thread for evidence that want to believe that Overall W/L ratio is more important than WorldCup victories.
Has anybody denied that the W/L ratio does not exist ? Certainly not me. But to suggest that BCCI is hiding because of that takes some serious imagination or wishful thinking. I think its the coping mechanism ingrained in most of you guys to get over the countless thrashings in big matches that go all the way back to B&H World Championships circa 1985/86.
Yep we lost the series 2-1 a series pretty much no one remembers bar Pakistanis like those obscure Sharjah games
Sure we remember some losses against pak which have had an impact or have been memorable...may be the Miandad 6,The Chennai and Kolkata tests, 2009 CT game,Saeed Anwar 194 game,Karachi test etc...I mean every win and loss between these games have been like yawn whatever except WC games.
Exactly, a yawn that turns into tears... a decade full of embarassing defeats, and self captitulations.. it was beautiful to see Indians breaking televisions on the streets after every defeat to Pakistan. We saw that for a decade..
Got a link for that ? Even a link from Pakistani media will do ... just because there exists stupid people who break TV's in Pakistan after WorldCup losses to India doesnt mean the same happens in India.
I realize that you are not exactly someone who goes by evidence but hey you never know .... BTW how is that effort to find a link about "Manjrekar being afraid" working out ? No joy yet ehh ?
Hitman
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Gotham Cronie
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Always a joke on both sides and just masala news. Notice how the TVs that are being broken always seem to be 20+ years old that were probably lying around not being used.
At the conclusion of the Aus-India series, India has strongly reinforced its claim to the #1 ranking. India came back multiple times when all seemed lost.
1) After losing the first Test by a huge margin, and being bowled out for 189 on the first day in the 2nd Test, it seemed that India was going to lose the second Test too, but they came back and won.
2) In the third Test it appeared India would concede a large lead at 328/6 in the first innings while having to bat last, but Pujara-Saha has a 78 over partnership to give India a large lead. An "umpire's call" for a Handscomb lbw appeal with Australia at 149/4 may have been decisive.
3) Fourth Test India was on the ropes with Australia winning yet another toss and finishing the first session 131/1. In their first innings it seemed India would concede a lead at 221/6 but a 96 run partnership by Saha-Jadeja rescued them.
4) India's best batsman Kohli had a zero performance while India's best bowler Ashwin was generally ineffective other than the 2nd Test. The rest of the team stepped up to to deliver the win.
By coming back multiple times when all seemed lost India showed a true heart of a champion. Its #1 ranking has been fully validated and Ganguly vindicated.
1) After losing the first Test by a huge margin, and being bowled out for 189 on the first day in the 2nd Test, it seemed that India was going to lose the second Test too, but they came back and won.
2) In the third Test it appeared India would concede a large lead at 328/6 in the first innings while having to bat last, but Pujara-Saha has a 78 over partnership to give India a large lead. An "umpire's call" for a Handscomb lbw appeal with Australia at 149/4 may have been decisive.
3) Fourth Test India was on the ropes with Australia winning yet another toss and finishing the first session 131/1. In their first innings it seemed India would concede a lead at 221/6 but a 96 run partnership by Saha-Jadeja rescued them.
4) India's best batsman Kohli had a zero performance while India's best bowler Ashwin was generally ineffective other than the 2nd Test. The rest of the team stepped up to to deliver the win.
By coming back multiple times when all seemed lost India showed a true heart of a champion. Its #1 ranking has been fully validated and Ganguly vindicated.
From a neutral stand point who recently saw his team playing both teams,
Both test teams are very close. Pakistan doesn't have the home field advantage. India very strong at home. The scale is tied. BUT.....
In near future, unless Pakistan unearths few batsmen to replace YK and Mesbah they are in real trouble. Bowling side Pakistan was always better and even now they are better. Amir would be improving in season two with legs back. The new leggie with Yasir Shah great bench strength.
My 2 cents.
Both test teams are very close. Pakistan doesn't have the home field advantage. India very strong at home. The scale is tied. BUT.....
In near future, unless Pakistan unearths few batsmen to replace YK and Mesbah they are in real trouble. Bowling side Pakistan was always better and even now they are better. Amir would be improving in season two with legs back. The new leggie with Yasir Shah great bench strength.
My 2 cents.
Very good summary ... add the utterly dominant performances against Eng and NZ where they inflicted inngs defeat after England scored 400 batting first in 3rd Test and 477 in 4th Test. This home season has seen some really epic Test matches.
The complete silence of all the trolls who used to troll using the same old excuses of toss and pitch have been thoroughly owned and driven underground. It was indeed very heartening to see so many fringe players step up during the course of season. Even injuries to crucial players did not affect the team results.
That was past. India is much better bowling side than Pakistan. They are the best in the world right now and that includes both spin and pace.
Romali_rotti
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YES right now India is better than Pakistan. However we need to consider a few things here, Pak is at a disadvantage because:
A) They cannot host matches in Pakistan,
B) Their players are not given opportunity to play in IPL,
C) Lack of playing vs India
If the above 3 were not an issue, I feel Pak would have been a slightly better side than the current Indian team.
A) They cannot host matches in Pakistan,
B) Their players are not given opportunity to play in IPL,
C) Lack of playing vs India
If the above 3 were not an issue, I feel Pak would have been a slightly better side than the current Indian team.
Braveheart
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You missed one!Hurt? Do you even know what it feels like to eject your bitter rivals from 3 World Cups? ( 1996, 2007, 2011 )
India beat us in 1992 and look what we went on to do..
ohhh I get it ... you hope the pattern repeats therefore you lose to India in WorldCups .... mystery solved
)Are India going on road this year? - Lets hold our horses till then. Real test of any test team is on the road. Can India win a test series in England/AUS/SA or even NZ? - Now if that happen, then they can be true World No 1...Right now, its more like Trump victory, only good in Red areas
Bilal7
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Are India going on road this year? - Lets hold our horses till then. Real test of any test team is on the road. Can India win a test series in England/AUS/SA or even NZ? - Now if that happen, then they can be true World No 1...Right now, its more like Trump victory, only good in Red areas
Will get thrashed in South Africa this year and England next year. Kohli will get found out for the hundredth time against swing and seam.
You need to clarify how you decide that (Atleast for the gullible un-inititated posters ) .... from past experiences discussing with you its pretty obvious that the way you go about this topic is by declaring any and all good performances as useless. Basically in your mind it must be a flat pitch if Kohli does well. Can never lose a debate with that kind of brilliant strategy
Sadevdesai
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There is no splitting hairs here .... in all 3 formats the Indians are ahead of us .... so any arguments to state that our side is still better than theirs at the moment, will involve lots of " ifs " and " buts " .... not convincing!!!
Braveheart
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I'm looking at the big picture patterns as far as the ICC 50 over world cup Tournament is concerned.
There's only ever been one significant win for India over Pak and that was the 2011 Semi which lead to India winning the World Cup.
There others were just token victories to keep the Indian people happy and enable them to celebrate their hate for a few days or weeks. However, these victories and celebrations were very short lived in 1992, 1996 and 2003 with India eventually being Humiliated by Sri Lanka and Australia respectively.
There's only ever been one significant win for India over Pak and that was the 2011 Semi which lead to India winning the World Cup.
There others were just token victories to keep the Indian people happy and enable them to celebrate their hate for a few days or weeks. However, these victories and celebrations were very short lived in 1992, 1996 and 2003 with India eventually being Humiliated by Sri Lanka and Australia respectively.
Mamoon
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No shame in admitting that India is far better than Pakistan in all three formats in all three disciples. The gap in Test cricket will only widen now that Younis and Misbah are gone.
This thread is on its way to becoming immortal. Posters return to it ever so often.
Abdullah719
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I do believe I have mentioned this before...
It's not such an alien concept to me that things change over time, perhaps it is to others.
This statement from Ganguly came when India just reclaimed the #1 ranking from Pakistan, but at the time, Pakistan had done well in recent matches with the England series the highlight and were still #2, which is why claiming that India were a 'far better side' was ridiculous.
Things have changed quite a bit now but I still think a series would be competitive.
It's not such an alien concept to me that things change over time, perhaps it is to others.
This statement from Ganguly came when India just reclaimed the #1 ranking from Pakistan, but at the time, Pakistan had done well in recent matches with the England series the highlight and were still #2, which is why claiming that India were a 'far better side' was ridiculous.
Things have changed quite a bit now but I still think a series would be competitive.
bleaf27
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Competitive would be an over exaggeration I'd say
Abdullah719
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You're entitled to your opinion.
ChennaiFan
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Agree 100%. A test series between India and Pakistan on sub continental pitches would be very interesting.
Buffet
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SA-Aus series has been competitive, but SA was better team for many years. They are not mutually exclusive.
I think India Pakistan series in Asia will be reasonably fought.
So your excuse is things were different back then and now they have changed ? Well thats the thing ... a supposedly #1 team according to many Pak fans on PP cannot lose so many tests including 2 Tests to a C Team from WI. Especially when most of the squad remains the same as it was 6 months ago.
bleaf27
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Yeah but you are over looking the mental fragility of the Pak side while chasing anywhere and against any side which may be ever worse against India. Then with Pujara/ Rahane/ Kohli / Rahul and with Misbah and YK gone it doesn't look like a close call. You foresee Pak chasing anything over 200-250 against Ind in the 4th innings ?
There is gonna be a decline for a while before hitting baseline for Pak again
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Abdullah719
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You call it an excuse, I call it life. It's been several months and things change in life.
Start a thread asking Pakistan fans whether they think this Test team is the best in the World. Let me know how many people hold that view. A tiny minority is my guess.
I don't think things have changed that drastically, it's just that the Pakistan team lacks ruthlessness and there is an obvious weakness with regards to last day chases. The struggles in NZ and Australia were a major setback with the margin of some of the losses a big worry, but that is not relevant to a Pakistan vs India comparison as the series wouldn't be played on a green pitch in New Zealand.
Buffet
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I do think that India is better than Pakistan right now, but even India will have hard time chasing 250 against Pakistan in 4th inning. 250 in 4th inning is hard for any team to chase.
bleaf27
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That depends on many factors however in India's favor - they do not have the mental block and fragility - which is the main factor.
India has a history of being able to chase big totals in 2nd innings with the batting a lot more settled. So i'd say 7 out of 10 times they'd be able to do to it
big_gamer007
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All the old threads are going to be bumped today to rub it in.. 
Am I missing anything here or do you believe that India is worse than WI ... and the reason I use WI is because its the only team that both Ind and Pak have played against recently(and not on green pitches) and in the last 5 tests vs WI pak record is 3-2. And you think that highlights Pakistans strength ? Tell me you are joking please.
Just to add to that .... the last time India lost a Test match to WI was way back in 2002 and at home it was in 1994 ... Pakistan hae managed both just in the last 6-7 months.
Abdullah719
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Not sure where you're going with this.
I said a Pakistan vs India series would be competitive, and from that you infer that I'm saying India is worse than WI?
Not sure where you're going with this.
I said a Pakistan vs India series would be competitive, and from that you infer that I'm saying India is worse than WI?
Because Pak vs WI has been competitive when it should have been a cake walk for the supposedly superior Pak team. Ind on the other hand have never looked like losing a Test to the same WI team at all. So how do you arrive at Ind vs Pak will be competitive ?
Abdullah719
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Because Pakistan has generally done well in the recent past in Asia.
Not as ruthless as India, but still, series wins count for something.
bhai your team has lost Tests to WI in the recent past and NZ the last time they played in your backyard .... And then there was the Zim series in Zim and today ... All matches that were typical Asian conditions ... kuch bhi ??
Have you ever looked at WI ranking points ? The have 70 points. thats proper minnow territory.
https://www.icc-cricket.com/rankings/mens/rankings-predictor/test
English August
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Hmm. I didn't realize it's been so long since India lost to WI. Nice!
Abdullah719
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bhai your team has lost Tests to WI in the recent past and NZ the last time they played in your backyard .... And then there was the Zim series in Zim and today ... All matches that were typical Asian conditions ... kuch bhi ??
Have you ever looked at WI ranking points ? The have 70 points. thats proper minnow territory.
https://www.icc-cricket.com/rankings/mens/rankings-predictor/test
So?
India got schooled in the first Test by Australia despite Australia having been whitewashed in Sri Lanka and UAE previously. These kind of linear comparisons serve no purpose.
My point is that Pakistan is a decent to good team in Asia and a series against India would be competitive.
I don't know why this particular statement is upsetting you so much, it's a matter of opinion.
If I was saying 'Pakistan will beat India' or 'Pakistan will thrash' India then you would have a point.
zulfiqar
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In Dubai, I'm certain Pakistan can beat India. I'm not suggesting we will thrash them, but we have been a very competitive side in UAE, beating most opponents comfortably in the past however many years.
English August
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All the old threads are going to be bumped today to rub it in..
But Pakistan will win the third Test and their fans will spin that as a major record-breaking win, forgetting today's humiliating loss.
English August
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Certain eh? Yup, only 4 things in life are certain: death, taxes, sun rising in the East and Pak beating India in a cricket match.
bleaf27
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I would say that neither team have changed very much since Ganguly made his statement about 8 months ago. Pretty much the same players for both sides.
MajidBhuta-AamirFan
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There is no doubt that current Indian team is way better than Pakistan......
But my 100 years old question still remains there.. Why one billion people can't produce a single fast bowler. My EX Noreg GF can bowl way faster than any Indian fast bowlers...
Don't tell me why one billion Chinese can't produce one heavyweight boxer..hahhahhah... btw Genghis Khan's height was pretty much as Tendu's height but he was fastest horse archers ever world produced.
But my 100 years old question still remains there.. Why one billion people can't produce a single fast bowler. My EX Noreg GF can bowl way faster than any Indian fast bowlers...
Don't tell me why one billion Chinese can't produce one heavyweight boxer..hahhahhah... btw Genghis Khan's height was pretty much as Tendu's height but he was fastest horse archers ever world produced.
The side that won in India was significantly different from the one that lost to SL last year and India was missing some key players. Yet we still won the series.
Believe me it doesn't upset me one bit ... Iam quite used to the typically Pakistani bravado that is on display before any big matches. It just makes the end result so much more sweeter just like most of the WC losses.
Have a look at this thread and the other threads one more time and you will see how a whole bunch of people have said just that. And based on evidence from how Pakistan is struggling to beat minnows there is no way one can justify the series being competitive .... but its a free world after all.
Abdullah719
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Thread is about Test cricket but you keep talking about World Cups...
I am saying matches would be competitive and you're calling that bravado...
Anyway I have my opinion and you have yours.
If your Ex GF can bowl faster than Umesh Yadav, I suggest you think hard about whether she was really your GF or he was a BF but you just didn't know.
You can also think about why the tiny India state of Haryana regularly outperforms the entire country of Pakistan in athletics, like they did most recently at the 2014 Commonwealth Games getting 4 gold medals to Pakistan's 0.
regular India-Pak Bashing. If anyone expects Any south asian teams to beat Aus/SA away to claim the real no.1 then he must be dreaming big time.
So the contest should be how well India/Pak have played against Aus/SA away to know who is better. Kind of who escapes whitewash
So the contest should be how well India/Pak have played against Aus/SA away to know who is better. Kind of who escapes whitewash
People should really check stats before making such statements, especially in the modern age where the stats are so easily available. India beat England 2-0 in 1986 in England. They also won the 1971 and 2007 series 1-0.
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/team/series_results.html?class=1;id=6;type=team
using as example to prove how the Bravado culture is pervasive amongst Pak fans.
Because there is nothing to back that assertion.
Anyway I have my opinion and you have yours.
Indeed and as [MENTION=142162]Napa[/MENTION] would say reality would rudely continue to interrupt you as it did today and on numerous occasions during the last few months.
Abdullah719
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Yes, 'Aane Do' was a great example of 'bravado culture' from Pakistani fans.
Indeed and as [MENTION=142162]Napa[/MENTION] would say reality would rudely continue to interrupt you as it did today and on numerous occasions during the last few months.
Actually, I am used to surprises being sprung by the Pakistani team.
Sometimes it's a good surprise, like the England tour. Someday soon, hopefully you guys will also be able to boast of an achievement overseas.
Yes, 'Aane Do' was a great example of 'bravado culture' from Pakistani fans.
That wasn't coined by any Indian fan. All reasonable Indian fans did not see that as appropriate.
Actually, I am used to surprises being sprung by the Pakistani team.
Sometimes it's a good surprise, like the England tour. Someday soon, hopefully you guys will also be able to boast of an achievement overseas.
Or like winning a Series in WI after what 60 yrs of trying ?
Anyhow here is the away record for Ind and Pak
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...span;team=6;team=7;template=results;type=team
Lost 16 matches including Zim and WI !!
Aman
Test Captain
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2013
- Runs
- 47,061
And the sky is blue....
Ganguly stating the obvious here..
Ganguly stating the obvious here..
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