India is the world's largest importer of arms

[TM Riddle]

India has emerged as the largest importer of major arms according to a latest research released by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) published on Monday. According to the study, India became the world’s largest importer of major arms in 2013-17 accounting for 12 per cent of the total global import.

The study said that there has been significant increase of 24 per cent in India’s weapon import between 2008-12 and 2013-17. The country that accounts for the maximum arms import of India is Russia with 62 per cent.

However, the rise in arms import from the US has been significant during the 2013-17 period. Imports from the country increased by as much as 557 per cent, making America the second largest arms supplier to India.

About Pakistan, the report said that the country’s arms imports went down by 36 per cent between 2008–12 and 2013–17. The study said, “Pakistan accounted for 2.8 per cent of global arms imports in 2013–17. Its arms imports from the USA dropped by 76 per cent in 2013–17 compared with 2008–12.”


According to Siemon Wezeman, a senior researcher with the SIPRI Arms and Military Expenditure Programme, the tension in recent past with both Pakistan and China have led to the increase in growing demands of weapon, which India does not produce itself.

The study further said that China has increasingly been becoming capable of producing its own weapons, and maintaining itself as a supplier in the region by maintaining good relations with Pakistan, Bangladesh and Myanmar.

The US emerged as the world’s top exporter of weapons accounting for 34 per cent of global arms sales in the last five years, according to the study. Russia accounted for 20 per cent of the export ranking second in the list. The US share of arms sales has gone up from 30 per cent recorded in the 2008-12 period.
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http://zeenews.india.com/india/indi...-arms-pakistans-import-goes-down-2089002.html

 

[KingKhanWC]

Easy money for Russia, US and Israel.

 

[TM Riddle]

62% is huge. For all the talks of growing rift between the two countries , Indians and Russians seemed to have kept their old bhaichara intact.

 

[KingKhanWC]

62% is huge. For all the talks of growing rift between the two countries , Indians and Russians seemed to have kept their old bhaichara intact.

Why would Russia dent relations with a nation who spends so much with them? However this hasnt stopped Russia getting closer with Pakistan

The real question is why does India feel it needs to spend so much on weapons?

 

[R3verse Swing]

Well clearly India feels China and Pakistan are a more powerful threat, unless Myanmar and Bangladesh are players!

 

[English August]

Why would Russia dent relations with a nation who spends so much with them? However this hasnt stopped Russia getting closer with Pakistan

The real question is why does India feel it needs to spend so much on weapons?

As a % of GDP, India's defense spending is well below Saudi Arabia, Israel, Russia and US; and roughly on par with other major countries like China, UK, France.

It's not as if it's off the charts.

https://blogs-images.forbes.com/niallmccarthy/files/2015/06/20150625_Defense_GDP_Fo1.jpg

 

[TM Riddle]

Why would Russia dent relations with a nation who spends so much with them? However this hasnt stopped Russia getting closer with Pakistan

The real question is why does India feel it needs to spend so much on weapons?

Gotta be ready for a two front war with Pakistan and China bro. You saw how the Chinese unsuccessfully tried to bully us last year in Doklam. You never know with those little maniacs.

 

[sshakir411]

Why would Russia dent relations with a nation who spends so much with them? However this hasnt stopped Russia getting closer with Pakistan

The real question is why does India feel it needs to spend so much on weapons?

Don't you know India only imports peaceful weapons... just like the peaceful nuclear test in 74.

 

[shaz619]

Easy money for Russia, US and Israel.

For the UK as well, they love to play with the BAE Systems toys

 

[R3verse Swing]

As a % of GDP, India's defense spending is well below Saudi Arabia, Israel, Russia and US; and roughly on par with other major countries like China, UK, France.

It's not as if it's off the charts.

https://blogs-images.forbes.com/niallmccarthy/files/2015/06/20150625_Defense_GDP_Fo1.jpg

Why does GDP/Money always come into question? Russia spends less than USA and EU combined on defence, and Russia has a punative GDP compared to USA/EU. Not to mention sanctions imposed on Russia! Yet Russia is a military might!

And a massive LOL. Comparing Israel to India. Remind yourself of the political enemies of the names you have mentioned then compare with India.

Pakistan and China must be a threat to India. All that bravado. Unless BJP plan on using the weapons on minorities.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Gotta be ready for a two front war with Pakistan and China bro. You saw how the Chinese unsuccessfully tried to bully us last year in Doklam. You never know with those little maniacs.

Fair enough if India feel these two together are threats but Im not sure how much use all these weapons will be in any serious conflict.

For the UK as well, they love to play with the BAE Systems toys

Yes, I remember they sold India some artillery guns.

I personally think they should use more bhut jolokia chilli weapons, it can be grown in India and thrown well even by medium pacers.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Anyone confirm if those hard Indian Rupees are being spent on Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning IIs?

 

[boomboomcheema]

What a waste of money.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

I would have thought one of the petro dollar countries would the largest importers.... But a third world country being the largest importer is truly worthy of an epic

 

[KingKhanWC]

Why does GDP/Money always come into question? Russia spends less than USA and EU combined on defence, and Russia has a punative GDP compared to USA/EU. Not to mention sanctions imposed on Russia! Yet Russia is a military might!

And a massive LOL. Comparing Israel to India. Remind yourself of the political enemies of the names you have mentioned then compare with India.

Pakistan and China must be a threat to India. All that bravado. Unless BJP plan on using the weapons on minorities.

I honestly think you have wrote something which may become the case. We know the Indian forces use some of the same imported weapons as Israel in Kashmir. A nation which has large minorities and now led by extremists may possibly find itself in a civil conflict in the future where these weapons will be turned on Indians.

 

[Syed1]

On topic, why does India need this many arms when it already much more heavily armed than biggest rival Pakistan and chances of it going to all-out war against China are next to none. Just playing in the hands of the western countries and wasting precious resources that could have been used on the population.

 

[KingKhanWC]

On topic, why does India need this many arms when it already much more heavily armed than biggest rival Pakistan and chances of it going to all-out war against China are next to none. Just playing in the hands of the western countries and wasting precious resources that could have been used on the population.

India wants the world to feel it's a great power or near to becoming a superpower. They are desperate for such recognition and have been wanting a seat on the UNSC. Sure no war serious with China or even Pakistan is unlikely to happen but having such weapons may help Indians sleep at night.

 

[R3verse Swing]

For the life of me I fail to understand why India imports said weapons.

Reason is twofold.

a] Why doesn't Indian manufacture its own weapons?
b] Indians claim to have had the upper hand on Pakistan in previous wars, but failed to conquer.

It's not like a non-water proof F35s are going to make a difference.

 

[R3verse Swing]

I honestly think you have wrote something which may become the case. We know the Indian forces use some of the same imported weapons as Israel in Kashmir. A nation which has large minorities and now led by extremists may possibly find itself in a civil conflict in the future where these weapons will be turned on Indians.

Agree. Within 5 years time, Indian will experience a civil war which will make the American Civil war look like a summer picnic.

 

[Test champion]

For the life of me I fail to understand why India imports said weapons.

Reason is twofold.

a] Why doesn't Indian manufacture its own weapons?
b] Indians claim to have had the upper hand on Pakistan in previous wars, but failed to conquer.

It's not like a non-water proof F35s are going to make a difference.

Have you heard about "make in India " . Mostly weapon indian buy from whichever county now they make half of them in India ,transfer tachnology, that's what is Modi Mantrs to form make in India .

 

[English August]

On topic, why does India need this many arms when it already much more heavily armed than biggest rival Pakistan and chances of it going to all-out war against China are next to none. Just playing in the hands of the western countries and wasting precious resources that could have been used on the population.

Another one comes along trying to find co-relation between defense spending and poverty. I have no idea why my earlier post questioning this common myth got deleted, but let me tell you -- there is zero co-relation between the two.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Have you heard about "make in India " . Mostly weapon indian buy from whichever county now they make half of them in India ,transfer tachnology, that's what is Modi Mantrs to form make in India .

Can you list some of the best weapons India produces?

 

[PakLFC]

Should spend in eradicating poverty instead of being obsessed with weapons. With China, Pak and India all having nukes war means end of life in the sub continent. Can understand they also need to flex their muscle as well.

 

[English August]

Should spend in eradicating poverty instead of being obsessed with weapons. With China, Pak and India all having nukes war means end of life in the sub continent. Can understand they also need to flex their muscle as well.

And one more. Let me ask you this: since your big daddy China is guaranteeing security for Pakistan anyway, and will continue to do so protect its CPEC investment, why doesn't Pak get rid of its armed forces completely and instead divert all those funds for addressing poverty in Pakistan?

 

[PakLFC]

And one more. Let me ask you this: since your big daddy China is guaranteeing security for Pakistan anyway, and will continue to do so protect its CPEC investment, why doesn't Pak get rid of its armed forces completely and instead divert all those funds for addressing poverty in Pakistan?

Coz of Kashmir. We don't trust you, that's why. China is not doing us any favours at all, they know the potential of CPEC so are investing in it. We don't need them to fight our battles at all, in the past Pak-India wars they did not help us in any way. I did not say that India should completely get rid of it's military but with so much poverty should reconsider it's military budget. Are you afraid of China, Pak or both?

 

[Test champion]

Can you list some of the best weapons India produces?

India and Russian produce world fastest cruse missile "brahmos" .F16 now produce in india.just last week hear that another 36 Rafael which France want to sell for India and that's came in make in India process.Hindustan Aeronautics Limited working on Tejas which is currently in final stage also Hindustan Aeronautics Limited has been working on Sukhoi su-MKI30 alongwith Sukhoi on fifth generation fighter aircraft

 

[KingKhanWC]

India and Russian produce world fastest cruse missile "brahmos" .F16 now produce in india.just last week hear that another 36 Rafael which France want to sell for India and that's came in make in India process.Hindustan Aeronautics Limited working on Tejas which is currently in final stage also Hindustan Aeronautics Limited has been working on Sukhoi su-MKI30 alongwith Sukhoi on fifth generation fighter aircraft

I didn't mean joint ventures but weapons, designed and made in India by Indians only.

 

[English August]

Coz of Kashmir. We don't trust you, that's why. China is not doing us any favours at all, they know the potential of CPEC so are investing in it. We don't need them to fight our battles at all, in the past Pak-India wars they did not help us in any way. I did not say that India should completely get rid of it's military but with so much poverty should reconsider it's military budget. Are you afraid of China, Pak or both?

Because of Kashmir -- what do you mean?

Also, you say that you don't trust India, but you expect India to trust Pakistan and China?

India is surrounded by enemies and needs to invest in security. If anything, it's actually underinvesting.

As mentioned multiple times, there is no co-relation between military spending and poverty.

 

[shaz619]

They are not the sharpest tools in the box so rely on British engineering excellence to buy products they don't even know how to use or need to begin with and the miniscule number who do know a thing or two, they jump ship to britian as contractors to be exploited by companies like BAE because their country is one big dump which is beneath the british pound. The sun will NEVER set on the empire, rule brittania!

 

[cricketjoshila]

The Defence Budget should be raise from around 50bn usd to 70bn usd to further expand our Airforce and Navy and modernise the Army.

Hopefully the govt will also approve raising of another Mountain Strike Corp soon.

Good that the govt now insists that all major defence deals have a 30 to 50% offset policy, where by the company has to invest that percentage of total value of the deal in India.

India's defence needs will be decided by Indians and not foreigners. Dont know why the rona dhona and other things on this thread.

 

[BlackShadow]

Well clearly India feels China and Pakistan are a more powerful threat, unless Myanmar and Bangladesh are players!

I can understand why tagging Pakistan with China may give you guys a temporary ego boost, but come on! Do you honestly believe that India is expanding because it sees Pakistan as a threat?

 

[BlackShadow]

I didn't mean joint ventures but weapons, designed and made in India by Indians only.

3rd world countries are not capable of manufacturing quality weapons on their own, simple as that. What they can do however is to build that capability in future, and India has taken steps towards that, specially this Modi govt.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I can understand why tagging Pakistan with China may give you guys a temporary ego boost, but come on! Do you honestly believe that India is expanding because it sees Pakistan as a threat?

Thats the defence mechanism. First it was US then it was Ummah and now it is China. Only no one has ever intervened in a war on behalf of Pakistan. No one will fight another person's war againist a nuclear armed country esp if i will mean war on its own frontiers.

 

[cricketjoshila]

3rd world countries are not capable of manufacturing quality weapons on their own, simple as that. What they can do however is to build that capability in future, and India has taken steps towards that, specially this Modi govt.

Only 4 countried have a fully developed Military industrial complex, US,Russia,UK and France.

Rest all have partial capabilities. Israel and China included.

Developing a MIC requires a very very long chain of suppliers.

But India is developing/developed its own weapons.

The Dhanush Artillery Gun
ATAGS
Arjun Tank and its future variants
Various Small Arms for the Army
Pinaka MRBL
Various missiles
Torpedoes
Helicopters
Own BMD system
Nuclear Sub
Aircraft carrier
Frigates and Destroyers
Tejas fighter

The speed of development has gone up in last few years as govt has allowed private indian companies to be involved in defence production. For almost 60 years only govt companies were allowed to be involved in the defence sector. All of them are inefficient and have a very poor work ethic.

 

[Romali_rotti]

50 Billion is what they are letting out in the open, in reality it would not surprise me if India's defense budget is around 70 Billion in which majority is spent on import of weapons.... India will take a long time to get its manufacturing process moving in the right direction, I am guessing another 50 years till then they will have to keep buying......

 

[CricketCartoons]

Embarrassing for India. Hopefully India will become weapon manufacturing hub in the future and sell arms in conflict regions to bring peace.

 

[Romali_rotti]

sell arms in conflict regions to bring peace.

Agreed India needs to sell its weapons to bring peace and stability to unstable regions, hopefully one day India will.

 

[IAJ]

Embarrassing for India. Hopefully India will become weapon manufacturing hub in the future and sell arms in conflict regions to bring peace.

That’s the receipe for getting Nobel Peace Prize, ask a certain former US president.

 

[TM Riddle]

The Defence Budget should be raise from around 50bn usd to 70bn usd to further expand our Airforce and Navy and modernise the Army.

Hopefully the govt will also approve raising of another Mountain Strike Corp soon.

Good that the govt now insists that all major defence deals have a 30 to 50% offset policy, where by the company has to invest that percentage of total value of the deal in India.

India's defence needs will be decided by Indians and not foreigners. Dont know why the rona dhona and other things on this thread.

Our defense expenditure is in pretty dire straits considering our requirements wrt facing a two front war which imo isn't as an outlandish possiblity as a few liberals would make it sound. The annual fund allocation falls quite short of Army's inevitable needs as noted by a recent Parliamentary standing committee's report on defense.
The budget for modernisation has to be somewhat between 20-25 % of overall allocation but it was a mere 14 % which is grossly inadequate. Also 68 percent of our weapons fall in vintage category as opposed to one third prescribed.
Some serious thinking and strategy is required in terms of spending on defence and related sectors in the face of growing Chinese threat.

 

[Madplayer]

One reason why the Arms suppliers dont want Kashmir issue to be solved. Hope India understands why big powers are silent on Kashmir issue.
Hint- not because they think India is right in this case.

 

[TM Riddle]

One reason why the Arms suppliers dont want Kashmir issue to be solved. Hope India understands why big powers are silent on Kashmir issue.
Hint- not because they think India is right in this case.

Whatever helps you sleep better at night

 

[BlackShadow]

One reason why the Arms suppliers dont want Kashmir issue to be solved. Hope India understands why big powers are silent on Kashmir issue.
Hint- not because they think India is right in this case.

Probably because Kashmir is supposed to be a bilateral issue after this? - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simla_Agreement

 

[R3verse Swing]

I can understand why tagging Pakistan with China may give you guys a temporary ego boost, but come on! Do you honestly believe that India is expanding because it sees Pakistan as a threat?

The reason I bring Pakistan and China is because India does perceive the two as a threat. Why do you pretend they are not? We can already see how India is jumping for joy over CPEC!

But lets grant your notion that Pakistan is not a threat, then why is India expanding it's military? To go toe-to-toe with China across the Himalayas?

The reality is India is surrounded by 2 enemies, both Nuclear, Pakistan and China. Nothing will change this fact.

 

[TM Riddle]

Probably because Kashmir is supposed to be a bilateral issue after this? - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simla_Agreement

A couple of days ago Maldives' foreign minister held a press conference in Male asking India not to worry much about ongoing crisis in the country since It was their internal matter just like Kashmir is India's .
Almost the entire world considers it as India's internal issue. But don't let the facts come in way of our liberal , secular Kashmiri freedom fighters.

 

[TM Riddle]

India's primary threat is China. Pakistan being an old arch enemy (with nukes at helm) is also given a due respect. But if a few delusional Brit Paks think India is expanding her defense programme mainly because of Pakistan , they are as usual absolutely wrong.

 

[Madplayer]

Probably because Kashmir is supposed to be a bilateral issue after this? - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simla_Agreement

No it is not. Maybe as per India only. Both Pakistan and Kashmir dont think so.

Any bilateral agreement cannot supersede UN resolutions which existed prior to it. If Kashmir, India and Pakistan come to a common ground and all parties accept a particular solution, they still have to go to UN to get a resolution which would endorse it.
And even if for a moment we agree a bilateral agreement supersedes UN (this is laughable to be honest), if bilateral negotiations fail to solve the conflict (which has happened), the parties have to go back to UN to get it solved.

The simla agreement didnt stop India from taking over siachen, or Pakistan from waging war on India in Kargil, so it wont stop Kashmiris from demanding their right. Its a pointless, insignificant bilateral agreement made by blackmailing a country which was devastated after war without taking consent of people in question i.e. people of the state of Jammu & Kashmir.

 

[BlackShadow]

The reason I bring Pakistan and China is because India does perceive the two as a threat. Why do you pretend they are not? We can already see how India is jumping for joy over CPEC!

But lets grant your notion that Pakistan is not a threat, then why is India expanding it's military? To go toe-to-toe with China across the Himalayas?

The reality is India is surrounded by 2 enemies, both Nuclear, Pakistan and China. Nothing will change this fact.

Pakistan as a threat can be tackled with vigilance, India already has more than enough to take care of Pakistan in an armed conflict even if we don't spend a penny on military imports for many years to come.

The real concern right now seems to be the Indian Ocean and Chinese border where we are likely to be outmatched by a stronger army.

 

[Madplayer]

Whatever helps you sleep better at night

The big arms suppliers want you to stay engaged in conflicts. They are happy with all the conflicts India is involved in. Why would they want it to change? Lol.

 

[TM Riddle]

The big arms suppliers want you to stay engaged in conflicts. They are happy with all the conflicts India is involved in. Why would they want it to change? Lol.

China is a permanent security council member. It has a well known ongoing rivalry with India and is also best buddies with Pakistan. Despite all that It has rarely raised a hue and cry over the Kashmir issue largely remaining to stay silent.
I wonder why. Maybe the Chinese also want to sell Indians weapons? Hmm that makes sense .

 

[Madplayer]

China is a permanent security council member. It has a well known ongoing rivalry with India and is also best buddies with Pakistan. Despite all that It has rarely raised a hue and cry over the Kashmir issue largely remaining to stay silent.
I wonder why. Maybe the Chinese also want to sell Indians weapons? Hmm that makes sense .

China has not said anything because it has its own separatist movements going on which they crush with force. They cannot take a stand against India on Kashmir without contradicting their own policies. Its doesnt take much to figure it out.

However it is only logical to think that India's arms suppliers in US, Israel, Russia would not want India to have peaceful borders. Just look at the amount of money India pays them for arms. Its not rocket science.

 

[BlackShadow]

A couple of days ago Maldives' foreign minister held a press conference in Male asking India not to worry much about ongoing crisis in the country since It was their internal matter just like Kashmir is India's .
Almost the entire world considers it as India's internal issue. But don't let the facts come in way of our liberal , secular Kashmiri freedom fighters.

A couple more decades of international indifference should help it sink in. Until then, whatever helps them sleep better.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Pakistan as a threat can be tackled with vigilance, India already has more than enough to take care of Pakistan in an armed conflict even if we don't spend a penny on military imports for many years to come.

The real concern right now seems to be the Indian Ocean and Chinese border where we are likely to be outmatched by a stronger army.

Hahahaha.

Indian Ocean will usher in a stronger Army? How are arms going to help against battleships and marines?

Chinese border which is essentially a mountain range [Himalayas].

Natural defences are a concern to India.

Got it.

 

[TM Riddle]

China has not said anything because it has its own separatist movements going on which they crush with force. They cannot take a stand against India on Kashmir without contradicting their own policies. Its doesnt take much to figure it out.

However it is only logical to think that India's arms suppliers in US, Israel, Russia would not want India to have peaceful borders. Just look at the amount of money India pays them for arms. Its not rocket science.

By that logic Pakistan only cares about Kashmir issue since it has it's own stakes in the region and not because out of humanitarian concerns for it's oppressed Muslim brothers.
Sounds bitter right. Truth always is.

 

[BlackShadow]

Hahahaha.

Indian Ocean will usher in a stronger Army? How are arms going to help against battleships and marines?

Chinese border which is essentially a mountain range [Himalayas].

Natural defences are a concern to India.

Got it.

Step 1 - Do a HaHaHa.
Step 2 - Follow it with a few lines of tripe.
Step 3 - Declare victory.

Well done, but let's get back to talking sense. You have no idea of the extent of militarization when it comes to India-China border, nor are you aware of massive infrastructure projects both sides have undertaken for better army mobilization. A major conflict there is a matter of time and given the terrain and a stronger enemy, India is investing heavily on upgrading Air Force. India is also spending heavily on expanding it's navy and the reason needs no guessing.

Now coming back to your point, enlighten us on how exactly is Pakistan contributing to India's high military spending? What more does India need to put Pakistan in it's place?

 

[R3verse Swing]

Now coming back to your point, enlighten us on how exactly is Pakistan contributing to India's high military spending? What more does India need to put Pakistan in it's place?

Read the OP.

It's easier to cross a flat border than swim across the ocean or hike a mountain.

 

[BlackShadow]

Read the OP.

It's easier to cross a flat border than swim across the ocean or hike a mountain.

A Dragon across the mountain is still a bigger threat than a lizard in your backyard.

 

[cricketjoshila]

No it is not. Maybe as per India only. Both Pakistan and Kashmir dont think so.

Any bilateral agreement cannot supersede UN resolutions which existed prior to it. If Kashmir, India and Pakistan come to a common ground and all parties accept a particular solution, they still have to go to UN to get a resolution which would endorse it.
And even if for a moment we agree a bilateral agreement supersedes UN (this is laughable to be honest), if bilateral negotiations fail to solve the conflict (which has happened), the parties have to go back to UN to get it solved.

The simla agreement didnt stop India from taking over siachen, or Pakistan from waging war on India in Kargil, so it wont stop Kashmiris from demanding their right. Its a pointless, insignificant bilateral agreement made by blackmailing a country which was devastated after war without taking consent of people in question i.e. people of the state of Jammu & Kashmir.

Pakistan is a signatory to the Simla agreement. If the two parties agree to an agreement, UN cannot stop it. It has no authority to do so and the two sovereign countries do not need UN to attest such an agreement.

Secondly, Siachen was not marked on the maps under Simla agreement. You can google this.

Yes Pakistan did violate the agreement which is why no one gave them any support in 1999.

Coming to the people of J and K. Well their sovereign ruler aceded to India. If the general population has issues it should have its representatives negotiate with India and find a solution. In this case Pakistan is nothing but a illegal occupier, which has barged into a dispute between Kashmiris and India. Pakistan should vacate PoK of all Pakistani nationals (The UN resolution says the same) hand it over to UN forces and whatever is the settlement between India and Kashmiris let it be implemented. But if you think Pakistan is a party to the dispute and represents Kashmiris then Simla Agreement has to be respected.

 

[Madplayer]

By that logic Pakistan only cares about Kashmir issue since it has it's own stakes in the region and not because out of humanitarian concerns for it's oppressed Muslim brothers.
Sounds bitter right. Truth always is.

Where did i claim that?

 

[TM Riddle]

Where did i claim that?

You seem to have implied it over the years. Do I look like someone who joined the forum yesterday?

 

[Madplayer]

Pakistan is a signatory to the Simla agreement. If the two parties agree to an agreement, UN cannot stop it. It has no authority to do so and the two sovereign countries do not need UN to attest such an agreement.

Secondly, Siachen was not marked on the maps under Simla agreement. You can google this.

Yes Pakistan did violate the agreement which is why no one gave them any support in 1999.

Coming to the people of J and K. Well their sovereign ruler aceded to India. If the general population has issues it should have its representatives negotiate with India and find a solution. In this case Pakistan is nothing but a illegal occupier, which has barged into a dispute between Kashmiris and India. Pakistan should vacate PoK of all Pakistani nationals (The UN resolution says the same) hand it over to UN forces and whatever is the settlement between India and Kashmiris let it be implemented. But if you think Pakistan is a party to the dispute and represents Kashmiris then Simla Agreement has to be respected.

As per international law, India and Pakistan cannot supersede the UN resolutions which were already in place..what they can do is, come to a common understanding about how to proceed and then get a new resolution passed in UN which endorses this new procedure. Also, Pakistan and India have failed to solve the conflict bi-laterally so going back to UN is the only way.

Secondly, the Pakistan side claims that siachen was marked in a dotted line on the map. I am not going to say anything further on this issue. You better discuss it with some Pakistanis to clear it.

Coming to the people of j&k,i havent read anything as far from reality and logic as what you have written. You are playing the same flute which Indians have played 1000000000000000000 of times. Firstly, the ruler's will is not always the be all end all as you would know how the wills of rulers were over ruled by India in many places, for whatever reasons, its a fact. Pakistan is obviously a party to the dispute, you cannot change history by manipulations. They even signed a standstill agreement with Maharaja which India did not. Pakistan would need to vacate but India needs to agree to the entire procedure 1st. India has been denying the existence of dispute altogether. India has proved to be untrustworthy and greedy.

 

[Madplayer]

You seem to have implied it over the years. Do I look like someone who joined the forum yesterday?

Well La de freaking da, I can't trust your memory.

 

[cricketjoshila]

As per international law, India and Pakistan cannot supersede the UN resolutions which were already in place..what they can do is, come to a common understanding about how to proceed and then get a new resolution passed in UN which endorses this new procedure. Also, Pakistan and India have failed to solve the conflict bi-laterally so going back to UN is the only way.

Secondly, the Pakistan side claims that siachen was marked in a dotted line on the map. I am not going to say anything further on this issue. You better discuss it with some Pakistanis to clear it.

Coming to the people of j&k,i havent read anything as far from reality and logic as what you have written. You are playing the same flute which Indians have played 1000000000000000000 of times. Firstly, the ruler's will is not always the be all end all as you would know how the wills of rulers were over ruled by India in many places, for whatever reasons, its a fact. Pakistan is obviously a party to the dispute, you cannot change history by manipulations. They even signed a standstill agreement with Maharaja which India did not. Pakistan would need to vacate but India needs to agree to the entire procedure 1st. India has been denying the existence of dispute altogether. India has proved to be untrustworthy and greedy.

You are wrong. UN cannot stop two sovereign countries from signing a agreement and settling their issue. UN is not a sanctioning authority for sovereign nations. Secondly you need to know under which article of UN the Kashmir Resolution was passed. Its a non binding resolution. Again you can google this.

The maps are freely available with interpretation by neutral experts. Siachen is unmarked territory even today. The border line there is called the AGPL or actual ground position line and not LoC.

The rulers will and his agreements matter. Or are you going to say that agreements and treaties by king of saudi or oman or UAE etc are invalid?

Pakistan is not a party. They are illegal invaders. Only India by virtue of the agreement it signed with Maharaja and Kashmiris by virtue of being the natives are the party.

The standstill agreement meant Pakistan wont invade Kashmir. They broke it. Pakistan has broken every agreement in Kashmir.



India agreed to the UN resolution but Pakistan never vacated the land. Now after 70 plus years the entire demography of the land is changed. Its Pakistan which illegally invaded J and K and now are squatting illegally over a territory they have no claim to.

 

[R3verse Swing]

A Dragon across the mountain is still a bigger threat than a lizard in your backyard.

Except the poisonous snake has had it's backside handed on a plate by a Lizard more time than the elusive Dragon. Yet the Dragon is a threat.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Don't believe the hype folks!

The Standstill agreement was simply an agreement that Kashmir would not ascend to neither Pakistan nor India until agreements were made. Pakistan agreed, India did not.

Clearly the Standstill agreement is new to certain people on the forum.

Here's more detail to the rest of the folk:

It provided that all the administrative arrangements then existing between the British Crown and the state would continue unaltered between the signatory dominion (India or Pakistan) and the princely state

The state of Jammu and Kashmir, which was contiguous to both India and Pakistan, decided to remain independent. It offered to sign standstill agreements with both of the dominions. Pakistan immediately accepted, but India asked for further discussions.

India were stalling while they were parking troops on the Kashmir border ready to invade Kashmir.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standstill_agreement_(India)

 

[cricketjoshila]

Pakistanis invaded Kashmir breaking the standstill agreement. Thats the truth. Pak Mil thought they would just get whole of J and K by force. Alas they failed. Just like they did in 65 71 and 99. Pak Mil cannot be trusted to honour agreements.

 

[TM Riddle]

Don't believe the hype folks!

The Standstill agreement was simply an agreement that Kashmir would not ascend to neither Pakistan nor India until agreements were made. Pakistan agreed, India did not.

Clearly the Standstill agreement is new to certain people on the forum.

Here's more detail to the rest of the folk:



India were stalling while they were parking troops on the Kashmir border ready to invade Kashmir.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standstill_agreement_(India)

India agreed to intervene ONLY AFTER MAHARAJA HARI SINGH SIGNED THE INSTRUMENT OF ACCESSION . India's intentions when they refused to sign standstill agreement are irrelevant. They did not break any law.
Pakistan OTOH went behind their earlier promise made to Maharaja by breaking the standstill agreement with the princely state of J&K and invaded it.
Not exactly a rocket science who abided by the laws and who didn't

 

[PakLFC]

Because of Kashmir -- what do you mean?

Also, you say that you don't trust India, but you expect India to trust Pakistan and China?

India is surrounded by enemies and needs to invest in security. If anything, it's actually underinvesting.

As mentioned multiple times, there is no co-relation between military spending and poverty.

But Pak is nine times smaller in size so India should not fear it. By Kashmir I mean are you arming yourselves by thinking Pak will invade or something? There is a relation between poverty and acquiring so many weapons. The money can be used to eradicate poverty.

 

[R3verse Swing]

India agreed to intervene ONLY AFTER MAHARAJA HARI SINGH SIGNED THE INSTRUMENT OF ACCESSION . India's intentions when they refused to sign standstill agreement are irrelevant. They did not break any law.
Pakistan OTOH went behind their earlier promise made to Maharaja by breaking the standstill agreement with the princely state of J&K and invaded it.
Not exactly a rocket science who abided by the laws and who didn't

Anyone hear that? It's the sounds of the world's smallest violin.

There is no amount of Bold or Capitalisation emphasis that changes the fact India played a dirty game, and people are only beginning to realise what the Standstill agreement was.

Ask yourself this folks, why did India not agree to the Standstill agreement? Indians would have you believe it is irrelevant (cos they are guilty).

Boo to the hoo.

 

[TM Riddle]

Pakistanis invaded Kashmir breaking the standstill agreement. Thats the truth. Pak Mil thought they would just get whole of J and K by force. Alas they failed. Just like they did in 65 71 and 99. Pak Mil cannot be trusted to honour agreements.

I blame the British for it. They before partition made sure to brainwash an entire generation of Punjabis by making them believe in their cooked up lies that they were some sort of Super Martial race who could easily beat the meek Hindu forces of India.
Even till 1965 war , the officers in top echelon believed that one Pakistani soldier was equivalent to 10 Indians.
There were other legends as well such as angels (wearing shalwars of course) descending on the Earth to help the holy Land by destroying IAF planes but that's a story for another day.

 

[TM Riddle]

Anyone hear that? It's the sounds of the world's smallest violin.

There is no amount of Bold or Capitalisation emphasis that changes the fact India played a dirty game, and people are only beginning to realise what the Standstill agreement was.

Ask yourself this folks, why did India not agree to the Standstill agreement? Indians would have you believe it is irrelevant (cos they are guilty).

Boo to the hoo.

It's completely irrelevant as to why India didn't agree to standstill agreement. Who knows maybe they were weighing their options? BUT THE FACT REMAINS THAT PAKISTAN WENT BEHIND HER PROMISE TO BREAK THE AGREEMENT AND INVADED KASHMIR
In hindi they call it "Doghlapan"

 

[R3verse Swing]

Let us grant the wishy washy notion that Standstill agreement was irrelevant, it begs the question why did India not offer to help Kashmir from the get go and only offered help until Kashmir was forced to ascend to India?

Answer : Cos India did not care about Kashmir. India was more concerned with the force, known as Pakistan.

Love it.

 

[TQ89]

I didn't read the article but i do know that saudi arabia has been the largest importer of arms in for the last two consecutive years.

 

[TM Riddle]

I didn't read the article but i do know that saudi arabia has been the largest importer of arms in for the last two consecutive years.

It ranks second in the list.

 

[TM Riddle]

Let us grant the wishy washy notion that Standstill agreement was irrelevant, it begs the question why did India not offer to help Kashmir from the get go and only offered help until Kashmir was forced to ascend to India?

Answer : Cos India did not care about Kashmir. India was more concerned with the force, known as Pakistan.

Love it.

Let's say India decided to help as soon as Pakistan forces entered Gilgit . Wouldn't you be then crying as to how India broke the law and invaded Kashmir and Pakistanis were infact there to save the kingdom with whom they had a standstill agreement signed up before .
India played her cards carefully and smartly

 

[TQ89]

It ranks second in the list.

Yeah makes sense since they stepped up their arms buying during the yemen conflict of 2015. They were the largest importer in 2016 spending 85 billion dollars according to some local sources. Have not read any authentic figure how much they spent in 2017 but they claim they have spent the most again.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Let's say India decided to help as soon as Pakistan forces entered Gilgit . Wouldn't you be then crying as to how India broke the law and invaded Kashmir and Pakistanis were infact there to save the kingdom with whom they had a standstill agreement signed up before .
India played her cards carefully and smartly

The "DOGHLAPANA" was exposed way back. Pakistan has broken every agreement they made on Kashmir. Then they annually cry at UN. Call terrorists freedom fighters. Beating chests and claiming victory on PP wont change all this. The Indian Tri colour flies in Srinagar and Pakistan can do nothing to change it.

 

[CanadianG00se]

LOL at all those Pakistanis suddenly caring about Indian population. Our country our money and our rules.

 

[R3verse Swing]

LOL at all those Pakistanis suddenly caring about Indian population. Our country our money and our rules.

Says the guy living in Canada with a Canadian flag in his profile.

Funny how Indian decedents care about India when the Indian government doesn't even consider them Indian citizens as per the Indian constitution.

 

[CanadianG00se]

Says the guy living in Canada with a Canadian flag in his profile.

Funny how Indian decedents care about India when the Indian government doesn't even consider them Indian citizens as per the Indian constitution.

I live in Canada but i still have family business and property in India. Basically, we still pay taxes in India. So yes, Im also part of that system in some way. Lastly, im not Indian citizen but im still OCI. I can do anything as ordinary citizen can except casting a vote and few other things.
Anyhow that is irrelavant, my point stands, Indian govt spending Indian tax payer money on Indian defence, why does an average Pakistani people feel the need to question that? They not spending Pakistan’s money nor they are begging western nations for grant or loan.

 

[PakLFC]

LOL at all those Pakistanis suddenly caring about Indian population. Our country our money and our rules.

Well if you poke your nose in our internal matters then we can do the same. I often read Indian criticism of Pak military for their kid's studying abroad, that also has nothing to do with you people at all. You don't see Pakistanis moaning why all kid's of Bollywood stars are studying abroad.