India stopping water of Pakistan Rivers

[Amar786]

AGENCIES Monday, 13 Aug 2012 2:08 pm | Comments (5)
dam-r670

ISLAMABAD - Chairman of Special Committee of the Parliament on Kashmir Maulana Fazlur Rahman has said that India was stopping water of the rivers flowing to Pakistan from the Indian Occupied Kashmir causing water shortage in Pakistan. India should not stop water of these rivers, he said.
The Chairman Kashmir Committee observed that under the Indus Water Treaty; Chenab, Jehlum and Indus rivers were allocated to Pakistan. However India has built many dams on them that has caused severe shortage of water in Pakistan damaging its economy, especially agriculture. Now India has started building dams on the tributaries of these rivers as well, which will further stop water flowing towards Pakistan and will further damage our economy”, he said.
He added that India produced electricity in the occupied Kashmir but the poor Kashmiris were not getting this facility.
Rahman said that every next day Indian leaders issue statements of friendship towards Pakistan just to show to the world that India cherished noble sentiments for its neighbours; otherwise India did not slip any opportunity to hit Pakistan.
“It has not resolved the Kashmir issue for the last 65 years and now India is out to destroy Pakistan's economy, stopping its water by building dams on the rivers, flowing from the occupied Kashmir”, he said.
He said if India strangled our economy, we won’t throw flowers in reaction. Thus, such conduct on the part of India would be harmful for peace in the sub-continent. Therefore, instead of just issuing statements of friendship with Pakistan, India should undertake practical measures to that effect”, he said.

http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/201...pping-water-of-pakistan-rivers-fazlur-rehman/

Every one accuses ISI of supporting terror groups against india but them same pakistanis never ever point out about the water issue which india takes illegally. And the indian who gone on about talking about peace what do they say about this.

 

[Down2Earth]

I really laugh at those indians and pakistanis who accuse the isi of trying to destabilize india when raw does exactly the same thing.

 

[Looney]

And what does Maulana Diesel stop ?

 

[Tera Gawaandi]

Why blame water crisis on India? Pakistan has worst natural resources management, this Diesel guy should recommend ruling party to build dams.

Floods - Blame India
Drought - Blame India

BTW Northern India is facing floods and you are accusing us of water stoppage.
Flash floods in Uttarakhand, Himachal Pradesh, Jammu; Over 30 feared dead

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2010-04-06/india/28117188_1_pakistan-yousuf-raza-gilani-water-dispute

NEW DELHI: As Pakistan drums up officially-sponsored hysteria on the "water dispute" with India, the government believes Islamabad is giving political overtones to "technical" issues.

On Saturday, Sharat Sabharwal, Indian envoy to Pakistan, described Islamabad's attempts to paint a picture of India as a water thief as "preposterous and completely unwarranted".

Even though Pakistan submitted a "non-paper" to India during the foreign secretary talks in February, Pakistani foreign minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi was quoted as telling TV interviewers on Friday that it wasn't India stealing Pakistan's water but Pakistan was wasting its water.

"The total average canal supplies of Pakistan are 104 million acres/ft. And the water available at the farm gate is about 70 million acre/ft. Where does the 34 million acre/ft go? It's not being stolen in India. It's being wasted in Pakistan," Qureshi is reported to have said in an interview.

In fact, in an interview on March 16, Pakistan PM Yousuf Raza Gilani contradicted his own government's contention that India's "water theft" was adversely affecting its crops. "When I took over as prime minister, there was shortage of wheat, Now there is a surplus. There is so much surplus that we had to construct new storage for our strategic reserves," he said.

Sabharwal quoted Pakistan's own documents to say that it lets 38 million acre feet (MAF) of water flow into the sea, and that too, during the kharif crop season. Pakistan has, in its internal strategies, bemoaned the lack of its own storage capabilities and the lack of hydropower generation capabilities.

According to World Bank, Pakistan has only 150 cubic metres water storage capacity as against 5,000 cubic metres in US and Australia and 2,200 cubic metres in China. With the appalling lack of storage capacities in Pakistan, World Bank estimated that its water shortfall would increase by about 12% in the next decade. Sabharwal noted that this had nothing to do with India but was a more fundamental question of mismanagement of scarce resources by Pakistan.

"Water productivity in Pakistan remains low... crop yields are much lower than international benchmarks. India has nothing to do with these issues of water management that are internal to Pakistan. Only Pakistan can seek solutions to these matters," Sabharwal said.

"We have never hindered water flows to which Pakistan is entitled, not even during the wars of 1965 and 1971... those who allege that India is acquiring the capacity to withhold Pakistan's share of water completely ignore the fact that this would require storage and canal network on a large scale. Such a network simply does not exist," he added.

'India didn't block water even during war'

 

[godzilla]

is it true that this is happening and against a treaty? why havent pakistan appealed to the un?

if india has done this, then of course they are to blame, whether theres flash floods or not - thats totally irrelevant.

 

[Kwremb]

If India has broken a treaty there's no excuse, whatever flash floods there might be

 

[Smiling Creed]

is it true that this is happening and against a treaty? why havent pakistan appealed to the un?

if india has done this, then of course they are to blame, whether theres flash floods or not - thats totally irrelevant.

It has already been done on Baglihar and deicision is to allow India to construct the dam on Baglihar.

Lafitte declared his final verdict on February 12, 2007, in which he upheld some minor objections of Pakistan, declaring that poundage capacity be reduced by 13.5%, height of dam structure be reduced by 1.5 meter and power intake tunnels be raised by 3 meters, thereby limiting some flow control capabilities of the earlier design. However he rejected Pakistani objections on height and gated control of spillway declaring these conformed to engineering norms of the day. India had already offered Pakistan similar minor adjustments for it to drop its objection. The Indus Waters Treaty of 1960 divided the Indus river — into which the Chenab flows — between the two countries and bars India from interfering with the flow into Pakistan while allowing it to generate electricity. However the key issue that any dam constructed by India should be strictly run of the river was rejected. Pakistan government expressed its disappointment at the final outcome. Both parties (India and Pakistan) have already agreed that they will abide by the final verdict.

 

[Green Leopard]

Sadly this is one of the most under reported consequences of Indian occupied Kashmir. It's strategic hold for Indians.

I really hope the Pakistan government raise this issue at the UN assemblies.

 

[Smiling Creed]

Sadly this is one of the most under reported consequences of Indian occupied Kashmir. It's strategic hold for Indians.

I really hope the Pakistan government raise this issue at the UN assemblies.

As long as Indus treaty is in effect, the matter can be taken up only by World Bank, which had sponsored Indus treaty.

Look into history, of what happened between 1948 and 1960 (the year when Indus water treaty was signed). Pakistan had to pay India money to use water of western rivers. Check out Inter-Dominion Agreement that was signed in New Delhi on May 4, 1948.

Please note that India is not a signatory to Barcelona convention of 1921, which states - “No state is allowed to alter the natural conditions of its own territory to the disadvantage of the natural conditions of the territory of a neighbouring state.”

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Maybe Aman Ki Asha is working after all.

They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and for years India would blame Pakistan for all it's troubles. Even if a cow farted in Delhi, Pakistan would be blamed.

Well it's good to see the Pakistani establishment have taken this up - blame your neighbour, hide your own incompetencies and help to unite the nation by creating a common enemy.

Of course the fact that you havent invested in water management and desalination plants over the years has nothing to do with the current problem. That you had petty domestic arguments about building dams whilst India were moving forward full pace with their dams also had nothing to do with the problem. No, it's all India's fault

 

[Smiling Creed]

Why can't amicable solution be reached -

1. Let India build dams, provided water flow in all the three western rivers remain consistent with the pre dam flow.

2. Provide option for Pakistan to buy electricity at discounted rates, which will be increased every year by a fixed percentage (first year 30% discount, second year 29%....so on), till the cost of the dam is recovered.

3. In case of draught, India to release water on the spillway, provided it doesn't causes problem in electricity generation.

Oh wait......I am dreaming !!!!!!

"The Itaipu Dam on the Paraná River in South America generates 14 GW and supplied 93% of the energy consumed by Paraguay and 20% of that consumed by Brazil as of 2005."

Can we ever learn?????

 

[Amar786]

Maybe Aman Ki Asha is working after all.

They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and for years India would blame Pakistan for all it's troubles. Even if a cow farted in Delhi, Pakistan would be blamed.

Well it's good to see the Pakistani establishment have taken this up - blame your neighbour, hide your own incompetencies and help to unite the nation by creating a common enemy.

Of course the fact that you havent invested in water management and desalination plants over the years has nothing to do with the current problem. That you had petty domestic arguments about building dams whilst India were moving forward full pace with their dams also had nothing to do with the problem. No, it's all India's fault[/QUOTE]

Why is india building the dams in the first place what is the reason behind it?

 

[Amar786]

Why not back your claims with some solid stats ?? Too much whining from across the border, I must say..

If pakistan was whinning it would have went to UN but it never if it was india they would be running to america and UN for help but pakistan never did and never will. Because we dont cry like you when India supports terrorism in balochistan but we dont say a word but when ISI does one mumbai attack you start you cry but when bin laden got killed we didnt start to cry.

 

[Smiling Creed]

If pakistan was whinning it would have went to UN but it never if it was india they would be running to america and UN for help but pakistan never did and never will. Because we dont cry like you when India supports terrorism in balochistan but we dont say a word but when ISI does one mumbai attack you start you cry but when bin laden got killed we didnt start to cry.

For your information, on Baglihar Dam -

January 18, 2005, Pakistan raised six objections to the World Bank, a broker and signatory of Indus Water Treaty

 

[Smiling Creed]

Maybe Aman Ki Asha is working after all.

They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and for years India would blame Pakistan for all it's troubles. Even if a cow farted in Delhi, Pakistan would be blamed.

Well it's good to see the Pakistani establishment have taken this up - blame your neighbour, hide your own incompetencies and help to unite the nation by creating a common enemy.

Of course the fact that you havent invested in water management and desalination plants over the years has nothing to do with the current problem. That you had petty domestic arguments about building dams whilst India were moving forward full pace with their dams also had nothing to do with the problem. No, it's all India's fault[/QUOTE]

Why is india building the dams in the first place what is the reason behind it?

Why should India not build dams....any reason???

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Maybe Aman Ki Asha is working after all.

They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and for years India would blame Pakistan for all it's troubles. Even if a cow farted in Delhi, Pakistan would be blamed.

Well it's good to see the Pakistani establishment have taken this up - blame your neighbour, hide your own incompetencies and help to unite the nation by creating a common enemy.

Of course the fact that you havent invested in water management and desalination plants over the years has nothing to do with the current problem. That you had petty domestic arguments about building dams whilst India were moving forward full pace with their dams also had nothing to do with the problem. No, it's all India's fault[/QUOTE]

Why is india building the dams in the first place what is the reason behind it?

To generate electricity as is their right under the IWT. No point whinging about it now - your own President at the time was happy enough to sign off on it.

 

[Singham]

Another reason why India cannot afford to let Kashmir go off the hand....
Kashmir is like a Gold mine in terms of strategic and Geo political matters.

 

[Senman]

http://tribune.com.pk/story/454002/visit-to-kishanganga-dam-site-india-has-stopped-work-following-courts-orders/#comments

ISLAMABAD:

Much to the satisfaction of Pakistan, Delhi has told Islamabad during a recent visit to the site of Kishanganga Dam, which was being built on Neelum Jhelum River, it has stopped work on the project and will not violate the stay order granted by the International Court of Arbitration, say officials.
However, Pakistan faces a threat back home as a Chinese joint venture has warned that it will abandon the strategic 969-megawatt Neelum Jhelum hydropower project, located in Azad Jammu and Kashmir, because of delay in clearance of its dues.
During a visit of the Pakistan-India joint inspection commission to the site of Kishanganga Dam, Pakistani officials noted that no construction work was under way following the stay order from the international court, approached by Pakistan.
“India is not even working on those parts of the dam, where work has not been restricted by the court,” a senior government official said.
The government claims that India will win water rights over Neelum Jhelum River if it builds Kishanganga Dam before completion of the Neelum Jhelum power project. This will lead to Pakistan losing 13% of the river’s water, it says.
However, officials in knowledge of the developments insist that Pakistan enjoys water rights over the river under the Indus Waters Treaty and India cannot lay claim to it by building the dam.
Today’s deadline
The joint venture of China Gezhouba Group of Companies and China Machinery Engineering Company, which is working on the Neelum Jhelum power project, has set a deadline of October 20 for the government to clear its dues amounting to Rs8.5 billion, says an official. In case of failure, the companies will back out of the project, leaving the government in a critical situation.
According to sources, the government is finding it difficult to arrange funds for the project as the Chinese government has linked the release of a loan of $448 million with the award of Islamabad Safe City project to a Chinese company.
“We will talk about the loan if Pakistan awards the contract of Islamabad Safe City to a Chinese firm,” an official said, quoting Chinese authorities.
However, in August this year, the Supreme Court of Pakistan cancelled the Rs14 billion Safe City project in the capital due to allegations of corruption.
The Abu Dhabi government’s leading national entity, the Abu Dhabi Fund, has also withheld a promised loan of $100 million for the Neelum Jhelum project until the settlement of a payment dispute between Pakistan and Etisalat pertaining to privatisation of Pakistan Telecommunication Company Limited (PTCL).

Rs2b a month

“The Ministry of Water and Power has requested the finance ministry to provide Rs2 billion every month for the Neelum Jhelum project, but no response has been received,” an official of the Ministry of Water and Power said.
The contract for the project, which has already been delayed, was awarded to the Chinese joint venture during the Musharraf regime without firm financing commitments, the Planning Commission observes.
Owing to the delay, the cost of the project has gone up from Rs84.5 billion to Rs274.8 billion, which will push up power generation cost to over Rs10 per unit compared to existing cost of 16 paisa per unit for hydropower.
The burden of delay and inefficiency is falling on the consumers as the government has decided to arrange 40% of funds for the project through a levy on energy. At present, the consumers are paying a surcharge of 10 paisa per unit, which amounts to Rs6 billion per year.

Published in The Express Tribune, October 20th, 2012.

****************************************************
I hope this puts an end to the conspiracy theories.

 

[MattyB]

Why can't amicable solution be reached -

1. Let India build dams, provided water flow in all the three western rivers remain consistent with the pre dam flow.

2. Provide option for Pakistan to buy electricity at discounted rates, which will be increased every year by a fixed percentage (first year 30% discount, second year 29%....so on), till the cost of the dam is recovered.

3. In case of draught, India to release water on the spillway, provided it doesn't causes problem in electricity generation.

Oh wait......I am dreaming !!!!!!

"The Itaipu Dam on the Paraná River in South America generates 14 GW and supplied 93% of the energy consumed by Paraguay and 20% of that consumed by Brazil as of 2005."

Can we ever learn?????

I'm not sure you understand how dams work. They funnel the flow of water into a small area to increase the speed it flows at so the dam can produce energy. There is no way that they can keep the flow of the water the same with a dam in as the water flowing through the dam wouldn't have enough energy for them to efficiently produce energy.

 

[MenInG]

India and Pakistan were unable to reach an agreement on the crucial issue of the Indus Waters Treaty at the most recent round of talks in Washington at the World Bank Headquarters on September 14-15.

Pakistan has requested the World Bank to fulfill its duties to establish the Court of Arbitration to decide the Indo-Pak ongoing Indus Water Treaty dispute.

The delegations of India and Pakistan met to discuss the way forward in disputes pursuant to the Indus Waters Treaty, 1960, concerning India’s plans to build Kishenganga and Ratle hydroelectric plants.

Earlier, the secretary level talks have already been failed to resolve the impasse on choice of forum for settlement of the disputes.

It may be recalled that Pakistan, after raising objections on India’s plans in the Permanent Indus Commission for over a decade, requested the World Bank on August 19 2016 to set up a Court of Arbitration as provided in the Indus Waters Treaty. Subsequently, on October 4 2016, India made a request for appointment of Neutral Expert to adjudicate the same disputes.

The World Bank initially agreed to setting up both fora but later ‘paused’ both process for establishment of the Court of Arbitration and appointment of the Neutral Expert for the reason that two forums carry the potential for conflicting rulings.

In an effort to resolve the impasse, the World Bank then invited the Secretaries for ministries of Water Resources of both countries to consultations for resolution of the impasse. In the first round of consultations held in Washington DC on July 31 – August 1 2017, Pakistan proposed amendments to indian designs that would make the project Treaty compliant. India agreed to studying those designs and the Parties decided to meet again in September 2017.

The Pakistani delegation was led by Secretary Water Resources Division Arif Ahmed Khan along with Secretary of Water and Power Yousuf Naseem Kho*khar, High Commissioner of Indus Waters Treaty Mirza Asif Baig and Joint Secretary of Water Syed Mehar Ali Shah.

The Indian delegation was led by the Union Water Resources Secretary Amarjit Singh. It also had representatives from Ministry of External Affairs, Power, India’s Indus Water Commissioner and Central Water Commission.

In the latest round of discussions, India not only refused to accept any of the amendments proposed by Pakistan but also refused to agree to any of the dispute settlement options proposed by the World Bank.

While acknowledging the Bank’s continued efforts, Pakistan has now requested the World Bank to fulfill its duties under the Treaty by impaneling the Court of Arbitration.

Sources told The Express Tribune that despite the passage of more than one year, the world bank is not establishing the court of arbitration, adding that Indian lobby has also big influence on the bank not play its active role in this matter.

The World Bank, however, assured that both countries will continue to work to solve pressing concerns in a good-natured manner. “While an agreement has not been reached at the conclusion of the meetings, the World Bank will continue to work with both countries to resolve the issues in an amicable manner and in line with the Treaty provisions.”

Pakistan may soon be ineligible for World Bank loans

“The World Bank remains committed to act in good faith and with complete impartiality and transparency in fulfilling its responsibilities under the Treaty, while continuing to assist the countries,” the Bank said in its statement.

The IWT was signed in 1960 after nine years of negotiations between India and Pakistan with the help of the World Bank, which is also a signatory.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1508045/indus-water-treaty-talks-end-inconclusively-world-bank/