Heisenberg111
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"Top tier" team New Zealand haven't beaten Australia in a Test series since 1990 and haven't beaten South Africa ever, but Pakistan is ordinary, Yeah right
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Contact the PP Team
India will be phony Test Champions without beating Pakistan
- Thread starter KingKhanWC
- Start date
"Top tier" team New Zealand haven't beaten Australia in a Test series since 1990 and haven't beaten South Africa ever, but Pakistan is ordinary, Yeah right
KingKhanWC
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One of the best test matches ive ever seen. The odds were something like Pak 7-1 to win or more.
Pak did score well but Sehwag hit 201 off 262 balls, still the fasted double test century in Asia. The odds rocketed to something like 20-1 for a Pak win, nobody thought Pak bowlers could take 20 wickets against this batting line up.
Afridi took 3 big wickets taking out Tendulka, Laxman and Ganguly in quick fashion. He is supposed to be a rubbish player according to Indian fans.
Also we have to remember India were playing their 2 greatest spinners at the time, Kumble and Harbajhan.
The point is simple, if this can happen then, Pak can also beat India now in Asia. Anyone who disagrees has little cricket understanding IMO.
Heisenberg111
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Pak will be underdogs in a series against India, but you are right, anything can happen in Cricket, especially in Indo Pak matches.
Technics 1210
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CT17 final was another example where Pakistan team were underestimated. Best batsman in the world out twice, in successive balls.
cricketjoshila
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"Top tier" team New Zealand haven't beaten Australia in a Test series since 1990 and haven't beaten South Africa ever, but Pakistan is ordinary, Yeah right
NZ is at the top of the test rankings. Pakistan is 5th. Is this hard to grasp?
KingKhanWC
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For sure. If played in Karachi, it would around India 4/11 v Pak 2-1. If played in Mumbai it would India 1-3 - Pak 7/2.
Aus blew it with a feable peformance allowing them to chase the score. Last test, India produced a pathetic pitch due to fear knowing England wont score much at all on such a deck. If it was Pak on the same pitch, we could have won but defo much better than what England did.
cricketjoshila
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You mentioned England. I mentioned a few teams. Why not tell me the record of pakistan against them.
Since you keep mentioning 2000. Whats the W/L ratio of pakistan at home since 2000, including uae
Slog
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So may be you should say ‘KKWC’ and not ‘Pakistani fans’
IMMY69
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At home, in Subcontinent Asian conditions we ahev been supremely good.
I don't see how you can right us off just like that.
Other then a cloudless of blips in the UAE we have been simply awesome in Asia.
You can also argue that we were pretty good in England too and those matches were on green seamers and hugely weather affected.
Finally in New Zealand, without are captain and star batsmen, we were a whisker away from drawing the first match.
So no I don't see an Indian victory in Asia as a forgone conclusion, far from it.
You are talking about the past when we had great cricketers, match-winners, mentally strong, battle-hardened players who had the ability to win or save Test matches on their own. I don't need to list all those greats as they are household names.
Recently our Test team has been embarrassing, just look at the players we have tried to fit into the Test team.
Other than a couple of world-class players, we have absolutely nothing.
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Heisenberg111
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I was just pointing out to him that Pakistan have won Test series against every team in the last decade alone (since 2011), which is no mean feat, while New Zealand haven't beaten Australia and South Africa since ages.
Yet he has the gall to call Pakistan ordinary, when the the current no.1 team hasn't won a Test series against two top teams ( Aus and SA) since ages.
Pakistan in the last decade alone have beaten Australia twice (2014 and 2018) and South Africa too this year, which current no.1 NZ haven't managed since ages. Yet Pakistan is ordinary, yeah right
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IMMY69
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Actually no I'm not.
I'm talking about our recent performances against England in England and New Zealand in Newzealand.
Throw in a test series victory against South Africa at home too.
I think you're blinded by this Indian team and its performances in Australia and have forgotten that this Pakistan team still has the blood of previous teams in that they can pull off a victory or a series win when least expected.
KingKhanWC
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We beat them in India when they had their great ever batting line up. Our bowlers were Sami, Razzaq, Afridi, Kaneria and Arshad. We have a far better bowling line up now and first day flat tracks are good enough for our batsmen. They arent that bad in Asia as we've just seen against Saffers who have a good bowling attack inc decent spinners.
Heisenberg111
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Why include UAE? since Pakistan is the real home.
Pakistan's W/L ratio in Pakistan in the last 20 years in 3.4, which is only behind India and Australia.
Ofcourse if you include UAE, then Pak's W/L ratio comes down.
New Zealand in New Zealand? We just got hammered by them. It was embarrassing to watch.
The South African team that just toured Pakistan was the worst South African Test team I have ever seen.
The blood of previous teams? What does that even mean?
KingKhanWC
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Really?
We now have Shaheen, Hasan Ali, Faheem and Yasir Shah.
Any other Pak fans would take Sami, Razzaq, Kaneria and Afridi over our current lot?
Heisenberg111
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I won't certainly.
IMMY69
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Blood of previous teams as in inconsistency... the ability to win a game when least expected.
Yes in New Zealand. We played two tests without our captain and best batsman and almost pulled off an unlikely draw in the fist match. If we managed do that then who knows what could have happened in the second one.
The South African team that is the doers you have ever seen would probably beat us in their own backyard...
Pakistan playing in proper home conditions is a different animal.
I'm sorry I'm not arguing for the sake of it.
I genuinely feel we have the players to do well and we certainly have the capability of pulling off a victory against India at home.
Pakistan's Overall W/L record at home is phenomenal. Truly shows how strong Pakistan have been at home that even teams like Australia and India are behind them.
Forget it. We live in hope and dream of yesteryear.
Take a proper look at the current crop of players.
You'll struggle to name players who can bat a whole day to save a Test, who can win a Test match on their own with the bat, can win Pakistan Test matches on their own with the ball.
Exactly, Pakistan Overall W/L ratio of 2.73 at home, which is no.1 out of all test playing nations shows Pakistan is a different beast altogether at home.
IMMY69
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I'd rather have a team 1/4 of the talent that the 1990's team had but that it actually played Like a team and not one of eleven individuals.
I can name four batsmen who can all play long innings especially in Asia..
Babar, Azhar, Fawad and Rizwan.
I can name you three bowlers capable of taking 22 wickets in Asia:-
Shaheen
Hasan Ali
Yasir Shah
That's 7 players already and we know for a fact that we have bowlers and batsmen who can fill in the gaps.
Have some faith
Buffet
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India is yet to qualify for finals and posters are discussing real or phony champions.
If pitch and toss assist Eng then Aus can still play the final.
If pitch and toss assist Eng then Aus can still play the final.
Just like India is on the verge of reaching finals without playing Pakistan, Pakistan also had the opportunity to reach WTC Finals without playing India. The way the schedule was created by ICC, every team didnt had to play each other to reach finals. So every team got the equal oppurtunity. Its not as if Pak had to forefiet any points for not playing against India.
The reason Pak is not in the reconing is bcoz they have not won many games in this cycle where as India have won constantly both home and away.
OP sounds like an excuse to me. The focus should be more on how Pak can reach finals in next cycle rather than getting hurt about Indian achievements.
The reason Pak is not in the reconing is bcoz they have not won many games in this cycle where as India have won constantly both home and away.
OP sounds like an excuse to me. The focus should be more on how Pak can reach finals in next cycle rather than getting hurt about Indian achievements.
NishanKonar
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India has lost only 3 test series at home in the ;last 40 years
Pakistan has lost at least 10 - including 1 against Zimbabwe in 1999 !
Raja Ishtiaq
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If India is so much better then why not play Pakistan and humiliate them?
Truth is Pakistan is the team that everyone secretly fears (including India) because they know we can topple any side on our day.
Also, BCCI has been conspiring against PCB for years now. They don't want to play us so that we dont generate any revenue and benefit from those matches.
They also pressurise players of other nations not to play in the PSL so we dont achieve popularity like the IPL.
India and BCCI are scared of Pakistan cricket.
cricketAXEpert
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India did not refuse to play Pakistan in final, had Pakistan Qualified for Final in England. India should have been docked points for not playing Pakistan during the league stage. However Pakistan did not qualify for the final.
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You are wrong, India have lost 6 series at home in last 40 years ( since 1980). 3 to England, 1 to Pakistan, 1 to SA and 1 to Aus.
Pak have lost 8 or 9 series in Pakistan I think in the last 40 years.
That also begs the question why last 40 years and not All time? Coz All-time, Pakistan have still lost less number of series than India at home
Anyways still Overall Pak's W/L ratio is much better than India's W/L ratio, and tells you that Overall Pakistan have been the more dominant team at home.
UP
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The current Pakistani team will be beaten black and blue by India. There’s no competition at the moment. It’s foolish to think BCCI doesn’t want to play Pak anymore. They can take all the revenge they want of the hammerings they used to get in the 80’s, 90’s.
Right now India is at level 10 and we are lingering at level 2 or 3. That big of a gap there is.
Right now India is at level 10 and we are lingering at level 2 or 3. That big of a gap there is.
Heisenberg111
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Why last 40 years only? Very convenient I must say. Why not from the beginning?. Here we were talking about all time W/L ratios at home and Pakistan is clearly better than India in that regard. Even Australia falls short.
India's initial record at home was very poor in their first 40 odd years, while Pak started well in the 50's and were unbeatable at home in the 70's, 80's and early 90's. India only became unbeatable at home after losing to Pak in 1987, thats why your last 40 year cherry picked time frame is very convenient.
Mesozoic
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It's one thing to win one off games in white ball cricket and a whole other thing to win a Test series against the same side.
Exactly the reason why Sri Lanka beat us in a T20 WC final and also in the Champions trophy but haven't won a Test series against India since 2008. And I don't think Pakistan are a lot better than Sri Lanka currently even if they're any better.
hoshiarpurexpress
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Hopefully we win our Phony WTC trophy. We will be very happy with that.
Who cares what OP thinks.
Who cares what OP thinks.
The lone Ranger
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Couldn't stop laughing
Whatever makes you feel better.
Even Zimbabwe can topple any side on their day. Is anyone fearing them?.
And no , BCCI doesn't care about other leagues like PSL , LPL, CPL or any for that matter. If they did, even those washed-up players who are now in PSL wouldn't have traveled to Pakistan.
Mamoon
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No one fears Pakistan. It is just the delusion of Pakistani fans.
Pakistan is not viewed as a dangerous team; Pakistan is viewed as a mediocre team that consistently occupies mid-table rankings.
Pakistan is no longer considered a top team. It is viewed in the same category as the likes of West Indies and Sri Lanka.
Pakistani fans are the only fans in the world that celebrate mediocrity and inconsistency and rebrand it as “unpredictability”.
Pakistan is a team that lacks talent, skill and mental fortitude.
The reality is that not a single Pakistani players make the world XI in any format, and only the likes of Babar, Rizwan and Shaheen will make the bench. The others won’t even be considered reserve players.
BCCI does not throw coins in PCB’s begging bowl because the the Government of India does not want Pakistan to make money off India, and it is fair enough.
They are in a stronger position and they are abusing their power. If the shoe was on the other foot, we would have done the same because we are no saints either.
We regularly pulled out of matches with India in the 80s and 90s when we used to have leverage, and we used politicized cricket regularly.
We blocked our players from playing in IPL season 2 hoping that it would derail IPL but that stunt backfired in the most spectacular fashion because the IPL became bigger and bigger without the contribution of a single Pakistani player.
We are doing this “don’t politicize cricket” drama now because we are on the receiving end. You only offer an olive branch when you are the one who stands to lose.
This is the reality of Pakistan cricket. An average cricket team with a bleak future.
Since when are we considering dropped catches as out?
Mamoon
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"Top tier" team New Zealand haven't beaten Australia in a Test series since 1990 and haven't beaten South Africa ever, but Pakistan is ordinary, Yeah right
Historically, Pakistan is better than New Zealand. Currently, New Zealand is better. They have superior players and are producing better talent in spite of having a very small pool of players with most of their best athletes going to rugby.
cricketjoshila
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How is the performance of pakistan team since 1955 going to tell you about the current team?
To know the current status, a 10 year W/L should be enough.
I will accept that India will be a "phony test champion" without playing Pakistan, if you accept that Pakistan was a "phony ODI champion" in 1992 when they lost to India. Unless you think that not playing is worse than getting beaten
haiderva
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Oh bhai... take it easy. I am a Pakistani to the core, but you have to give credit where credit is due. India has been consistently one of the top sides for the last few years. Their test accomplishments speak for themselves. We got whooped by Australia, England, and NZ.
You could have made a statement like this a few years ago when Misbah and the rest were ruling the UAE. It's a different time now, we're a different team (and unfortunately.. not necessarily a better team).
Bilal7
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A trophy is a trophy. However, it does make me laugh when I hear some of the hyperbole around the Indian team based on them smashing through non-Asian teams on their home patch. Apparently, one can become the "GOAT offspinner" by bullying the likes of Stokes and Sibley in India and one can become the heir apparent to Sehwag by smashing Joe Root and Dom Bess around the park.
The two best teams against spin over the last 10-12 years have been Misbah's Pakistan and Virat's India. These two have also had the best spinners (I'm sure Sri Lanka would disagree but even if they were better at some point, it does not change the argument too much).
Not only did we as fans miss out on some great Asian cricket but the players themselves missed opportunities at growing their resumes. The likes of Sehwag, Sachin, Gavasker, Kumble and Anwar, Miandad, Younis, Saqlain, etc did not become some of the greatest players of/bowlers of spin by wrecking non-Asian sides. They did it by wrecking each other (with Pakistan doing more of the wrecking, I might add).
The two best teams against spin over the last 10-12 years have been Misbah's Pakistan and Virat's India. These two have also had the best spinners (I'm sure Sri Lanka would disagree but even if they were better at some point, it does not change the argument too much).
Not only did we as fans miss out on some great Asian cricket but the players themselves missed opportunities at growing their resumes. The likes of Sehwag, Sachin, Gavasker, Kumble and Anwar, Miandad, Younis, Saqlain, etc did not become some of the greatest players of/bowlers of spin by wrecking non-Asian sides. They did it by wrecking each other (with Pakistan doing more of the wrecking, I might add).
Thanos
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I guess only Pak has the fan base that love their team being unpredictable rather than consistent. I would love to see my team performing well consistently rather than being unpredictable.
Heisenberg111
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Pakistan's achievements in the last decade alone surpass NZ's achievements in Test cricket by some distance.
Indiafan
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Before this series, for last 3 years, > 50% of wickets in India have been taken by Indian pacers. Ishant, Shami, Yadav, Bhuvi all average below 25 at home in last 5+ years. We would not have doled out spinning pitches for Pakistan at home
Mamoon
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What achievements? Both teams have won plenty of matches at home and New Zealand are number 1 today.
Heisenberg111
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Pakistan have only played 3 series in Pakistan in the last 10 years, but if you look at the last 20 years record, then Pakistan have a W/L ratio of 3.4 in Pakistan, which is only behind India and Australia's W/L ratios at home in the last 20 years.
So still a great home record for Pak in the last 2 decades, even if it is 3rd best after India and Australia.
Heisenberg111
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Pakistan also reached no.1 rank in the last decade, and have won Test series against every team, which NZ haven't managed.
NZ didn't beat Australia and South Africa in a Test series in the last decade. While Pakistan beat Australia twice (2014 and 2018 ) and South Africa (2021).
So Yeah Pakistan has achieved more in Test cricket in the last decade than NZ have.
Mamoon
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It is much easier for Pakistan to beat Australia in a home series than it is for New Zealand because the UAE conditions give Pakistan a huge advantage. On the contrary, New Zealand conditions do not give them a huge advantage against Australia.
For New Zealand, Australia at home poses the same type of challenge that India would for Pakistan, and Pakistan is really lucky that India did not bother to play Pakistan in UAE otherwise we would have been flogged.
Similarly, if New Zealand plays the current South Africa at home, they would win comfortably even though the conditions are going to suit South Africa as well.
New Zealand struggled against a quality South Africa side and so did Pakistan, who failed to beat South Africa in UAE in 2010 and 2013.
Heisenberg111
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NZ lost to a weaker SA at home in 2017. NZ haven't beaten SA in a Test series in their entire history, so I wouldn't say for sure that they can beat SA even now.
Anyway, Pakistan's away record in the last decade is also better than NZ.
Pakistan have won series in NZ, SL and WI in the last decade, while NZ have only won in UAE and WI. Add to that Pakistan also drew twice in England.
cricketjoshila
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Why are you removing UAE?
Heisenberg111
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UAE is not real home, thats why.
Technically its a neutral venue and Pakistan's W/L ratio in UAE is much inferior to Pak's W/L ratio in Pakistan in the last 2 decades.
Varun
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In the last decade where you played in Pakistan (2000 to 2009), you lost to England, India, South Africa and Sri Lanka multiple times.
The UAE was better for your results than Pakistan.
OMB
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India not a phony test champion. Not yet, first they have to qualify for WTC
Mamoon
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South Africa was pretty strong until 2016-17. They had Amla, Philander, Morkel, younger Faf etc. They also won a series in Australia in 2016.
It doesn’t matter if New Zealand haven’t beaten South Africa in their history. You put too much stock in historical data while ignoring current capabilities.
The current South African team is much weaker compared to New Zealand and will get thrashed in New Zealand.
As far as away record is concerned, Pakistan lost a Test and drew a series in Zimbabwe. Winning in New Zealand, West Indies and Sri Lanka does not compensate for that humiliation.
Had Pakistan won a series in England, Australia and South Africa, it would have compensated for the embarrassment of losing in Zimbabwe. However, we failed to achieve that.
Yes, Pakistan clearly has a much better away record than NZL in the last decade, although I would argue that NZL have been stronger at home even though they haven't beaten Australia and South Africa since a long time.
But, Overall you are right, Pakistan have achieved more than NZL in the last decade or so. And this despite the fact that the last decade has been one of Pakistan's worst and NZL's best.
mastimasti
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As Indian I know for a fact it is India who refuse to play, home, away or neutral venue.
Heisenberg111
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No, Just No.
Pakistan's W/L ratio in Pakistan in the last 20 years = 3.4
Pakistan's W/L ratio in UAE in the last 20 years = 1.7
So, Pakistan's W/L ratio in Pakistan is twice that of Pakistan's W/L ratio in UAE. So no comparison really, Pakistan clearly much better in Pakistan than in UAE.
TNAmarkFromIndia
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Pakistan were phony World Cup winners in 1992 because they didn't beat India. 
OMB
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yeah right..I nominate you to the ICC rules committee.
Heisenberg111
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Anyone can lose a Test to a weaker team. England and Australia lost Tests in Bangladesh in 2016 and 2017 respectively. To same Bangladesh team which lost to Zimbabwe and Afghanistan at home. However that doesn't mean that England' and Australia's other away series wins get discarded or discredited because of that. That whole logic is hilarious, lol
Similarly Pakistan's away achievements dwarves NZ's away achievements in the last decade, losing a Test in Zimbabwe doesn't change that.
Mamoon
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Losing in Bangladesh for a non-Asian side is not the same as losing in Zimbabwe. Bangladesh producing turning wickets and they have some quality spinners and good batsmen against spin.
However, there is no excuse/justification for losing in Zimbabwe. They don’t have quality fast bowlers or quality batsmen against pace.
Pakistan cricket stinks of mediocrity and that is why it lost to Zimbabwe. The likes of India, England, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand etc. will not.
No need of chest-thumping over Pakistan’s away record in the previous decade when they had the honor of losing in Zimbabwe.
)
Heisenberg111
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Losing in Bangladesh for a non-Asian side is not the same as losing in Zimbabwe. Bangladesh producing turning wickets and they have some quality spinners and good batsmen against spin.
However, there is no excuse/justification for losing in Zimbabwe. They don’t have quality fast bowlers or quality batsmen against pace.
Pakistan cricket stinks of mediocrity and that is why it lost to Zimbabwe. The likes of India, England, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand etc. will not.
No need of chest-thumping over Pakistan’s away record in the previous decade when they had the honor of losing in Zimbabwe.
Pakistan's away W/L ratio in the last decade = 0.58
New Zealand's away W/L ratio in the last decade = 0.41
Pakistan comfortably ahead of NZ in terms of away record in the last decade, but hey you are free to laugh all you want
Mamoon
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Pakistan's away W/L ratio in the last decade = 0.58
New Zealand's away W/L ratio in the last decade = 0.41
Pakistan comfortably ahead of NZ in terms of away record in the last decade, but hey you are free to laugh all you want
First win in Zimbabwe then talk
)First win in Zimbabwe then talk
I am sure when Pakistan wins in Zimbabwe this year, you will be the first person to say that it doesn't count
This is the most logical post in this thread.
India in WTC Final is giving sleepless nights to some fans.
Pakistan's away W/L ratio in the last decade = 0.58
New Zealand's away W/L ratio in the last decade = 0.41
Pakistan comfortably ahead of NZ in terms of away record in the last decade, but hey you are free to laugh all you want
Mate, I would urge you to not argue with him. He is not interested in stats or facts, he is just interested in spouting his usual delusional rubbish. Any stats or facts you present to him won't change his mind. He just likes to argue.
Last 2 decades here mean from 4th March 2001 to 4th March 2021, so I am not sure why you are counting previous year results.
Heisenberg111
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Mamoon
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Pakistan won in Zimbabwe in 2011, but carry on
I remember that historic 1 match series where Zimbabwe scored 400+ in the first innings and their opener carried the bat.
However, that monumental achievement of winning in Zimbabwe in 2011 was negated by the humiliation in 2013.
Chrish
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I haven’t followed much Pakistan cricket. How good is your team currently in SC conditions? I know they haven’t played much cricket and when they did, they were against pretty weak teams in Asian conditions. So, it’s difficult to gauge the quality.
CRIC_FANtastic
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Better to be phony champions than finishing fifth. Please dont feel bad for us, I am sure we can live with this jalalat.
BTW, good to see Pakistan fans are more interested in how phony we are than how pathetic is their current test team.
Interesting to note that past performance of Pakistan teams is discussed more in this thread...kind of proves there is nothing to talk about current team.
BTW, good to see Pakistan fans are more interested in how phony we are than how pathetic is their current test team.
Interesting to note that past performance of Pakistan teams is discussed more in this thread...kind of proves there is nothing to talk about current team.
The Viper
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No need to be bitter. Our current team wouldn't stand a chance and India beat Aus at their own home, I don't think they are going to be worried about 'phony' tags.
Misbah's team would have beaten Indian team of 2011-13 in Asia, but current Pakistani team is weaker compared to Misbah's team in Asian conditions. And Kohli's India is stronger than India of 2011-13, so I guess you can pretty much guess the result of a series now between these two teams in Asia.
In England, Pakistan will have more of a chance to beat India.
Heisenberg111
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Pakistan have won their last 3 home series albeit against SL,BD and SA. But you are right, we need to see them play more at home against stronger sides to gauge if they can present a formidable challenge in subcontinent conditions.
Buffet
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It is premature to dismiss Pakistan by saying that they have only won against weaker teams. At the same time, it is premature to say that they will win against all stronger teams. They have some weaknesses even at home and it's obvious, but it won't be easy for visiting teams to play in different conditions.
Pakistan at home is a pretty good team. I am glad that cricket is returning back to Pakistan.
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nextover666666
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If india make the finals they will lose their known to choke on big occasions
Indians are known chokers. Just look at their record in the 12 matches they have played against their biggest opponent in the biggest pressure tournaments which are the World Cups, oh wait...
docteurmanish
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Someday pak will play india .
docteurmanish
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Indians choking is true under Kohli in odi .
In tests it’s a different approach - Kohli fields 5 bowlers in all tests , has been blessed
with ashwin jadeja and chinaman and now axar an sundar with Pandya thakur as bowling allrounders and pant and Saha and Rohit / pujara / Rahane / rahul / gill .... in short his aggression helps in tests and time and again india has shown never say die attitude . The gaba test is a v v good example . India lost the England series ( luck had some role - we missed Bhubaneswar batting and bowling and England found Curran ) but all matches were very close . Same thing in South Africa - india did perform v well and for once indian fans were ok with the loss . The only place where indian fans feel upset is New Zealand where we did not perform well and hence lords test will be interesting but india stand a very good chance though India’s choke in odi is perhaps almost resolved as old dhoni had blocked development of middle order - now with v good hitters ( Jadeja pandya thakur and pant in lower order and v good rotators / hitters in middle order - shreyas Iyer and rahul - and kohli / sharma / shaw / gill led upper order )
Loss of peak yuvi and dhoni is now more than adequately replaced . We are top 3 team across all formats and expecting Kohli to begin winning now
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