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Indian spy Kulbhushan Jadhav sought to create anarchy in Pakistan at Delhi's behest, ICJ told

What India needs now is Arnab Goswami's guidance on the issue .. when will he be back from hibernation ?
 
ahsan17 said:
This is a silly argument. Abducting from Iran would require support from the Iranian state. Why would Iran do that? There are plenty of Indians traveling to Pakistan if they want to frame someone. Plus, why did he have a fake passport? If you don't want to believe that evidence then you're just in denial. You guys are some of the biggest conspiracy theorists one ever comes across.
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That's the whole point open your mind a bit and don't think with pre conceived mindset:

1. Indian government/media says he was abducted from Iran.
2. It says there is no proof given by Pakistan about him being involved in activities in Baluchistan.
3. Pakistan says it has sufficient proof and given to Indian counterparts.

Now both side tell a different story, the exact same thing happened with hafiz saeed only it was the other way around.. A lot of Pakistani believe he had nothing to do with the attacks..

As per your logic Pakistanis are the biggest conspiracy theorists also? It's not about that point is simple government from both sides have failed administratively so they blame each other for wrong doings.. The truth about him is only known by the top levels in your army or raw, rest is speculation based on evidence your media and our media gives.
 
adit_sh said:
I dont think that may be true because if that is the case they could have kidnapped any TDH Indian from anywhere in Afg and kept calling them Spy.
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It might not have been true but you and me would never find out the truth for sure.. At the end of the day if he was involved in terrorist activities then he deserves his fate if he was innocent and framed then the people responsible are worse than terrorists and would answer to god when their time comes..
 
ahsan17 said:
Good terrorists bad terrorists? Your country was the one that invented that. Mukhti Bahni, LTTE, etc being good terrorists of course.
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We never harboured and trained terrorists on our soil.. And even if we practise good terrorist bad terrorist policy why on earth would Pakistan want to follow that as well? Copy our good things not bad things.. After the Army school attack I had hoped you guys would have treated all terrorist as same and taken action against every organisation but if even after that you differentiate between terrorists based on your interests you can never ever get rid of terrorism in your country.. That's just the harsh truth..
 
Braveheart said:
Modi was not Prime Minister then.
He is now, and he has the potential to be a dangerous War warmongering Hindu Extremist in my opinion.
Despite the cover-up, we got a taste of what he is capable of in Gujerat.
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So you sitting in your home somewhere in Pakistan know all about modis role in Gujrat however the top notch courts in India don't know? Modi was tried under congress regime and got free how can their be any cover up? But then again you would never accept that since you have already made up your mind that he was involved..
 
big_gamer007 said:
So you sitting in your home somewhere in Pakistan know all about modis role in Gujrat however the top notch courts in India don't know? Modi was tried under congress regime and got free how can their be any cover up? But then again you would never accept that since you have already made up your mind that he was involved..
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Facts account for little when you have a whole generation being brainwashed into hating a nonexistent enemy. They had made up their minds long before Gujarat or Modi happened.

https://www.dawn.com/news/672000
 
This is terrible from pakistan and I am a pakistani saying this (well british pakistani anyway).

Give the man a fair trial, show the proofs against him and allow the indians to talk to him. Why are they not allowing indian officials to qs him?

If he is rightly proven to be an indian terrorist then ofcourse pakistan is entitled to hang him.
 
big_gamer007 said:
We never harboured and trained terrorists on our soil.. And even if we practise good terrorist bad terrorist policy why on earth would Pakistan want to follow that as well? Copy our good things not bad things.. After the Army school attack I had hoped you guys would have treated all terrorist as same and taken action against every organisation but if even after that you differentiate between terrorists based on your interests you can never ever get rid of terrorism in your country.. That's just the harsh truth..
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Huh? Yes Mukhti Bahni were trained on Bharati soil. So you want to be able to use terrorists yourself but tell others not to?
 
cricketjoshila said:
Kasab was a Pakistani and thats a accepted official stance of the Pakistani govt.You can keep denying it wont change the reality.

Pakistan refused to accept the bodies if its soldiers in Kargil saying they were Mujahids and not soldiers.Another reality.

What we do in India is no concern of anyone but Indians.Just like what you do in Pakistan is none of Indias.Just like what you do with Jadhav in Pakistan,whether legal or illegal fair or unfair is Pakistans concern
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Just because you say something does not make it a reality when our story and experience of Kargil is totally different. We battered you to the degree that Israel had to come in and help you, even the Indians admit this. Well if Kasab was a Pakistani then why did you stop him from being interrogated by Pak ? You are not making any sense. Pak said let us ask him but your refused. Now you admit that Kulbushan is an Indian so no reason for you to want access. We have determined that he is a terrorist. Damn right you should mind your own business and not lecture how to deal with him. He should be executed at the Wagah border so you people can see from the other side.
 
Sorry Indians, you can keep crying. No way in hell is Yadav going back to India alive.
 
and yet if we support ajmal kasab then this would boil their blood.
 
PakLFC said:
Just because you say something does not make it a reality when our story and experience of Kargil is totally different. We battered you to the degree that Israel had to come in and help you, even the Indians admit this. Well if Kasab was a Pakistani then why did you stop him from being interrogated by Pak ? You are not making any sense. Pak said let us ask him but your refused. Now you admit that Kulbushan is an Indian so no reason for you to want access. We have determined that he is a terrorist. Damn right you should mind your own business and not lecture how to deal with him. He should be executed at the Wagah border so you people can see from the other side.
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If Pakistanis battered India why did they run away?why is your PM on official record accepted that Kargil was a huge defeat?Everyone is lying right?

Ajmal Was a Pakistani.Your own govt has confirmed it.

https://www.dawn.com/news/856680/ajmal-s-nationality-confirmed

Interrogation and consular access are different things.India was ready to give consular access to Kasab.

Yes deal with Jadhav as Pakistan deems fit.
 
PakLFC said:
Just because you say something does not make it a reality when our story and experience of Kargil is totally different. We battered you to the degree that Israel had to come in and help you, even the Indians admit this. Well if Kasab was a Pakistani then why did you stop him from being interrogated by Pak ? You are not making any sense. Pak said let us ask him but your refused. Now you admit that Kulbushan is an Indian so no reason for you to want access. We have determined that he is a terrorist. Damn right you should mind your own business and not lecture how to deal with him. He should be executed at the Wagah border so you people can see from the other side.
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Has Pakistani spy ever been hanged in India ? Comparing a Terrorist like Kasab and a Raw agent is a bit extreme don't you think ? Especially executing him at Wagah border.....
 
cricketjoshila said:
Kasab was a Pakistani and thats a accepted official stance of the Pakistani govt.You can keep denying it wont change the reality.

Pakistan refused to accept the bodies if its soldiers in Kargil saying they were Mujahids and not soldiers.Another reality.

What we do in India is no concern of anyone but Indians.Just like what you do in Pakistan is none of Indias.Just like what you do with Jadhav in Pakistan,whether legal or illegal fair or unfair is Pakistans concern
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Most irresponsible and idiotic comment I've ever head. This is like saying "Australians and Russians have the right to beat up Indians as it is their country and their land". It is pretty obvious that he is a spy and more over he is an Indian citizen and we have the right to raise questions. We should try our best to save his life and make sure his sentence is reduced.
 
Specialisttailender said:
Most irresponsible and idiotic comment I've ever head. This is like saying "Australians and Russians have the right to beat up Indians as it is their country and their land". It is pretty obvious that he is a spy and more over he is an Indian citizen and we have the right to raise questions. We should try our best to save his life and make sure his sentence is reduced.
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Its a useless exercise.
 
Specialisttailender said:
Most irresponsible and idiotic comment I've ever head. This is like saying "Australians and Russians have the right to beat up Indians as it is their country and their land". It is pretty obvious that he is a spy and more over he is an Indian citizen and we have the right to raise questions. We should try our best to save his life and make sure his sentence is reduced.
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It's a weak defense tactic. When you know you're guilty of terrorism you abandon your spy and come up with the most ridiculous defense, which is, their country their rule.
 
Specialisttailender said:
Has Pakistani spy ever been hanged in India ? Comparing a Terrorist like Kasab and a Raw agent is a bit extreme don't you think ? Especially executing him at Wagah border.....
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No! Kulbushan was more then an agent. He is directly responsible for killing many innocent Pakistanis so has to be punished. Most likely he is responsible for the murder of so many innocents. Many Pakistanis like Dr Shahid Masood also believe that Indian's should be forced to watch his execution. There is a difference between spies and terrorists.
 
cricketjoshila said:
If Pakistanis battered India why did they run away?why is your PM on official record accepted that Kargil was a huge defeat?Everyone is lying right?

Ajmal Was a Pakistani.Your own govt has confirmed it.

https://www.dawn.com/news/856680/ajmal-s-nationality-confirmed

Interrogation and consular access are different things.India was ready to give consular access to Kasab.

Yes deal with Jadhav as Pakistan deems fit.
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Coz Nawaz Sharif did not have the guts to follow the war through and finish India off! You still don't get it about Ajmal. We asked to see him ourselves to see if he was Pakistani that you rejected fearful that your lies will be exposed. Sure Ajmal was a Pakistani Muslim which is why he was caught praying to bhagwan when on his death bed!!. You are great at lying
 
cricketjoshila said:
If Pakistanis battered India why did they run away?why is your PM on official record accepted that Kargil was a huge defeat?Everyone is lying right?

Ajmal Was a Pakistani.Your own govt has confirmed it.

https://www.dawn.com/news/856680/ajmal-s-nationality-confirmed

Interrogation and consular access are different things.India was ready to give consular access to Kasab.

Yes deal with Jadhav as Pakistan deems fit.
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...and your army general has also admitted that we lost the Kargil was as well.
 
As usual some posters trying their level best to derail the topic at hand.

Can we all know why India isn't honoring exchange of prisoners which it signed an agreement on in 2008??

How is the exchange of prisoners related to the Hanging of this man that we are about hang in Pakistan (Sorry I am not too familiar with the name).

Can someone explain this in simple terms ?? Please !
 
ahmedwaqas92 said:
As usual some posters trying their level best to derail the topic at hand.

Can we all know why India isn't honoring exchange of prisoners which it signed an agreement on in 2008??

How is the exchange of prisoners related to the Hanging of this man that we are about hang in Pakistan (Sorry I am not too familiar with the name).

Can someone explain this in simple terms ?? Please !
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India never honours anything bro so don't expect any logic or reason from them. There refusal to return the poor prisoners is due to Pak insisting that Kulbushan will be hanged. I know it does not make any sense, don't expect that from them. They are comparing Pakistanis in India imprisoned for petty crimes to a RAW terrorist.
 
This thread is a lot of random chest thumping from both sides. Let's just get some facts straight

1. Pakistan gained nothing from the Kargil war except international humiliation

2. India has never sentenced a Pakistani Spy to be hanged. This is the 2nd Indian Spy to face such a sentence in Pakistan but the sentence has never been carried out in Pakistan before either.

3. The evidence against Kulbushan points towards him being more than just a spy with activities linked to terrorism and deaths of civilians. Hence, the comparison to Ajmal Kasab is completely legitimate.

4. Pakistan was in the wrong to not allow access to the Indian government to Kulbushan. However, this has been a *** for tat exercise as the same was done in the case of Kasab.

5. Kulbushan has been involved in terrorist activities within Pakistan and Indians supporting such a man and calling him a hero are pathetic. They should not be supporting anyone who has been involved in killing innocent civilians let alone calling him a hero. This would be the equivalent of Paksitani's referring to Kasab as a hero.

6. Kulbushan has the the right to make 3 appeals. I've read on this forum somewhere about how unfair it is that he has no right of appeal. So, just wanted to clarify that he does.

7. He will most probably not be hanged.
 
uberkoen said:
This thread is a lot of random chest thumping from both sides. Let's just get some facts straight

1. Pakistan gained nothing from the Kargil war except international humiliation

2. India has never sentenced a Pakistani Spy to be hanged. This is the 2nd Indian Spy to face such a sentence in Pakistan but the sentence has never been carried out in Pakistan before either.

3. The evidence against Kulbushan points towards him being more than just a spy with activities linked to terrorism and deaths of civilians. Hence, the comparison to Ajmal Kasab is completely legitimate.

4. Pakistan was in the wrong to not allow access to the Indian government to Kulbushan. However, this has been a *** for tat exercise as the same was done in the case of Kasab.

5. Kulbushan has been involved in terrorist activities within Pakistan and Indians supporting such a man and calling him a hero are pathetic. They should not be supporting anyone who has been involved in killing innocent civilians let alone calling him a hero. This would be the equivalent of Paksitani's referring to Kasab as a hero.

6. Kulbushan has the the right to make 3 appeals. I've read on this forum somewhere about how unfair it is that he has no right of appeal. So, just wanted to clarify that he does.

7. He will most probably not be hanged.
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This will fly over many jingoistic heads, but good post.
 
To all the Indians in this thread asking for evidence, what ever made you think you were part of the justice system that's deciding this trial and that you need to see the evidence?

As has been said publicly, the Indian govt has been made aware of this spy's activities. Consular access or not. If you really want to hear more about this evidence, reach out to your government.

There is enough circumstantial information pointing to this man not just being an ordinary Indian citizen. Those Indians still living under that illusion are probably the ones that also believe Kashmir wants to be part of India.
 
PakLFC said:
...and your army general has also admitted that we lost the Kargil was as well.
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We successfully gained our land back. How is that a loss ? The intention was to capture Kargil and Pakistan failed so it is your loss nah ?We took more damage but that is normal during offensive attack as Pakistan might have studied India's defence prior to the initial attack while it would take some time for Indian military to study Pakistan's attack and react. That being said casualties are always underplayed. I got a relative who was involved(translator) in IPKF operation in Sri lanka and casualties were always underplayed and during heavy casualties at times bodies are half-counted so the casualties claim are not reliable either.
 
Tapioca said:
There must be backchannel discussions going on at the moment. May be we will exchange a terrorist or two or give some other concession to get him released.
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Why the heck does Pakistan want to give up an Indian Spy for a rag tag terrorist that Pakistan claims has no association with them. That would make Pakistan admit that they are state sponsoring terrorists and Kasab was caught murdering civilians on camera and the whole word saw it. There is no way Pakistan can honor him while Jadhav is still seen as a hero to some and an innocent to the others. Our cinema has promoted "we the good people and they are the bad people" so PR wise it is always a win-win situation for US.

Some of the Indian chest thumpers have gone in hiding, we may see them when Pakistan loses a match or when Indian they find an amazing stats on Sachin.
 
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Kulbushan, a serving Indian officer only came here to propagate terror and harm Pakistan. And Indians know that. Who knows how many deaths his covert operations have resulted in. A death sentence is least they should expect for a global terrorist. Although i am not sure whether our state has enough spine to carry out this death sentence.
 
Specialisttailender said:
We successfully gained our land back. How is that a loss ? The intention was to capture Kargil and Pakistan failed so it is your loss nah ?We took more damage but that is normal during offensive attack as Pakistan might have studied India's defence prior to the initial attack while it would take some time for Indian military to study Pakistan's attack and react. That being said casualties are always underplayed. I got a relative who was involved(translator) in IPKF operation in Sri lanka and casualties were always underplayed and during heavy casualties at times bodies are half-counted so the casualties claim are not reliable either.
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Pak still controls Tiger Hill. Pak's full intention sure did fail that was due to Nawaz not the military that I have already explained. Of course you took massive losses and also Israel helped you out as well. Do not under estimate the psychological impact Kargil had on you that you talk about even today. That is true about Sri Lanka, shows that you are at war with every neighbouring country!

 
PakLFC said:
Pak still controls Tiger Hill. Pak's full intention sure did fail that was due to Nawaz not the military that I have already explained. Of course you took massive losses and also Israel helped you out as well. Do not under estimate the psychological impact Kargil had on you that you talk about even today. That is true about Sri Lanka, shows that you are at war with every neighbouring country!

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No they don't, Pakistan only controls a point near Tiger Hill. Whether Pakistan could have "won" the war or not is a speculation. Kargil is still viewed as a victory among many Indians including me. I'm a realist, the rest are jingoistic so good luck convincing them over a psychological victory that doesn't exist. The main objection was deterred and that it self is a victory. Like I said, I don't believe military casualties report as I have a relative that knows all the dirty ways in which military lower their casualties. War in Sri Lanka was the stupidity of Ragiv Gandhi and the intelligence of Sri lankan president who used our soldiers to fight their war and forever make a negative impact between Sri Lankan Tamilians and Indian Tamilians. Which benefited Sri lanka in long run. VP Singh withdrew the troops as soon as he came to power and it was the action of one dumb PM and not the action backed by many Indians. India didn't invade Sri Lanka like Pakistan did.
 
waqar goraya said:
Kulbushan, a serving Indian officer only came here to propagate terror and harm Pakistan. And Indians know that. Who knows how many deaths his covert operations have resulted in. A death sentence is least they should expect for a global terrorist. Although i am not sure whether our state has enough spine to carry out this death sentence.
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If he won't be hanged then he will be met with fate similar to Sarabit Singh. Either is fine, IMO. India is by far overestimating its influence and it doesn't have very much to bargain with. They are now trying to slow down visa process for Pakistanis. Really tells you how low they are scraping to find something for leverage, when all they have left is slow down visa process.
 
ahsan17 said:
If he won't be hanged then he will be met with fate similar to Sarabit Singh. Either is fine, IMO. India is by far overestimating its influence and it doesn't have very much to bargain with. They are now trying to slow down visa process for Pakistanis. Really tells you how low they are scraping to find something for leverage, when all they have left is slow down visa process.
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They can even deny visas.Break diplomatic relations.Withdraw from IWT. All these may follow in future and likely follow.
 
big_gamer007 said:
That's the whole point open your mind a bit and don't think with pre conceived mindset:

1. Indian government/media says he was abducted from Iran.
2. It says there is no proof given by Pakistan about him being involved in activities in Baluchistan.
3. Pakistan says it has sufficient proof and given to Indian counterparts.

Now both side tell a different story, the exact same thing happened with hafiz saeed only it was the other way around.. A lot of Pakistani believe he had nothing to do with the attacks..

As per your logic Pakistanis are the biggest conspiracy theorists also? It's not about that point is simple government from both sides have failed administratively so they blame each other for wrong doings.. The truth about him is only known by the top levels in your army or raw, rest is speculation based on evidence your media and our media gives.
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Just because Indian government says it doesn't make it true and same goes for Pakistani government too.

He had confessed. If his confession isn't good enough then what would be?
 
LHC bar association warns lawyers against taking Jadhav's case

Lahore High Court’s Bar Association said on Friday that it would take action against any lawyer who extended his services to former Indian naval officer Kulbhushan Jadhav, who has been sentenced to death by a Pakistani military court.

"The LHBA has unanimously decided to cancel the membership of any lawyer who offers his services to Indian spy Kulbhushan Jadhav," Lahore High Court Bar Association Secretary-General Amer Saeed Raan said after a meeting of the bar on Friday.

He said the bar has asked the government not to “bow to any foreign pressure”.

"India has declared Jadhav its son and is putting pressure on the Pakistani government for his release. We demand that the Indian spy who is involved in playing with lives of Pakistanis should not be spared and the government (should) ensure his hanging," he said.

Earlier, Pakistan's top military commanders under army chief Gen Qamar Bajwa made it clear that "no compromise" shall be made on such "anti-state acts".

Jadhav’s death sentence was confirmed by army chief Gen Bajwa after the Field General Court Martial found him guilty of "espionage and sabotage activities" in Pakistan.

Although India has acknowledged that Jadhav had served in the navy, but it denies charges of Jadhav being a spy. It claims that Jadhav was abducted from Iran, a charge Pakistan denies.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/mobi/ne...yers-against-taking-jadhav-s-case/391858.html
 
Specialisttailender said:
No they don't, Pakistan only controls a point near Tiger Hill. Whether Pakistan could have "won" the war or not is a speculation. Kargil is still viewed as a victory among many Indians including me. I'm a realist, the rest are jingoistic so good luck convincing them over a psychological victory that doesn't exist. The main objection was deterred and that it self is a victory. Like I said, I don't believe military casualties report as I have a relative that knows all the dirty ways in which military lower their casualties. War in Sri Lanka was the stupidity of Ragiv Gandhi and the intelligence of Sri lankan president who used our soldiers to fight their war and forever make a negative impact between Sri Lankan Tamilians and Indian Tamilians. Which benefited Sri lanka in long run. VP Singh withdrew the troops as soon as he came to power and it was the action of one dumb PM and not the action backed by many Indians. India didn't invade Sri Lanka like Pakistan did.
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Have a look at the video again that clearly shows who controls TH. You can view it as whatever you want, equally us Pakistanis also view it as a dead cert victory as well. You believe in strategic strikes that didn't happen. I don't have to convince anyone when you people still have not forgotten the lesson you were taught by Musharraf. We will come again for sure, just don't ask when and how....

So what you seem to be implying is that India lost more men then what they claimed?? Doesn't matter what Rajiv did. India wanted to annex and make Sri Lanka a part of itself like always. You have always been obsessed with taking the land of other people so nothing new there. I rest my case when you admit that India did make war against that little island as well. Now you are losing it going on about Pak invading Sri Lanka when it's not even our direct neighbour. If we will ever invade or annex anyone it will be Afghanistan.
 
In case its not clear- dont get personal with each other.
 
www787 said:
Just because Indian government says it doesn't make it true and same goes for Pakistani government too.

He had confessed. If his confession isn't good enough then what would be?
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The problem is the forced confession that is applicable to both countries. The media from both the countries harp with confessions that their respective govt feeds them.

Not talking about this case and only the law of land has to be applied. If you think Pak have enough proof to prosecute then they should just do it. No place for any form of terrorism in the world.
 
PakLFC said:
Have a look at the video again that clearly shows who controls TH. You can view it as whatever you want, equally us Pakistanis also view it as a dead cert victory as well. You believe in strategic strikes that didn't happen. I don't have to convince anyone when you people still have not forgotten the lesson you were taught by Musharraf. We will come again for sure, just don't ask when and how....

So what you seem to be implying is that India lost more men then what they claimed?? Doesn't matter what Rajiv did. India wanted to annex and make Sri Lanka a part of itself like always. You have always been obsessed with taking the land of other people so nothing new there. I rest my case when you admit that India did make war against that little island as well. Now you are losing it going on about Pak invading Sri Lanka when it's not even our direct neighbour. If we will ever invade or annex anyone it will be Afghanistan.
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Bro look at everything else other than that video. Tiger Hill as of today is controlled by our forces. Indian forces control Tiger Hill and it is a fact. Like I said, we took more casualties, lost couple of Fighter jets and a helicopter and we also prevented Pakistan from being achieving the target. Yes you did permanently capture a strategic point inside the Indian territory that is viewed as unattainable by few (a point and not Tiger Hill). It goes both ways depends on how you see it. I see it as an expensive victory for us. You can see it as the way how you see it and we both can be correct.

India, Pakistan, Sri lanka and every other country that has fought in war has always under reported their casualties. Bodies can be counted.... 1, 2,3,4,4,5,6,7,7,8,9 and etc. It is easy to say 3 soldiers became martyrs today when 4 or 5 of them might have sacrificed their life on that day. Are you likely to believe Pakistan suffered 3 losses or 5 losses ? Which number do you want to believe ? Not sure if they can do that today with with social media and might have done it in Kargil but was definitely happening from 1975 to 1990.

Wrong, if India wanted to annex Sri lanka they wouldn't have supported Sri Lanka. India fought the war for Sri Lanka, again which was a political brilliance from one side and pure stupidity from the other side. Rajiv most likely thought he could gain Sri Lanka as an ally and break it away from Pakistan. We even gave up an Indian island to Sri Lanka (Kachatheevu). LOL at India being obsessed with land occupation. Rajiv initially thought supporting Tamil separatist movements can gain him more votes in Tamil Nadu and didn't expect separatist movement to be strong enough to actually threat Sri lanka. The problem was that Tamil people in Sri Lanka wasn't worshiping political parties,movie stars, were generally more educated and separatist movements were very organized by few groups and even a bit more advanced too. He figured it was strong enough that it may create a separatist movement in India. Then he realized he messed up and decided to unscrew what he started by using our own forces to destroy a separatist movement which India should have supported. This is what angers me about the central government, the annexation of Kachatheevu with Sri lanka has resulted in 800+ Indian fishermen being killed by Sri Lankan Navy and you don't hear that on the news as Sri Lanka is not Pakistan and Sri Lanka is needed as an ally to India to prevent China from setting up military bases which almost happened with Sri Lanka's man-made island controversy. When did anyone say Pakistan want to invade Sri Lanka ? If India wants to invade any other country it would have been Bhutan. India has no desire to occupy lands.
 
Specialisttailender said:
Bro look at everything else other than that video. Tiger Hill as of today is controlled by our forces. Indian forces control Tiger Hill and it is a fact. Like I said, we took more casualties, lost couple of Fighter jets and a helicopter and we also prevented Pakistan from being achieving the target. Yes you did permanently capture a strategic point inside the Indian territory that is viewed as unattainable by few (a point and not Tiger Hill). It goes both ways depends on how you see it. I see it as an expensive victory for us. You can see it as the way how you see it and we both can be correct.

India, Pakistan, Sri lanka and every other country that has fought in war has always under reported their casualties. Bodies can be counted.... 1, 2,3,4,4,5,6,7,7,8,9 and etc. It is easy to say 3 soldiers became martyrs today when 4 or 5 of them might have sacrificed their life on that day. Are you likely to believe Pakistan suffered 3 losses or 5 losses ? Which number do you want to believe ? Not sure if they can do that today with with social media and might have done it in Kargil but was definitely happening from 1975 to 1990.

Wrong, if India wanted to annex Sri lanka they wouldn't have supported Sri Lanka. India fought the war for Sri Lanka, again which was a political brilliance from one side and pure stupidity from the other side. Rajiv most likely thought he could gain Sri Lanka as an ally and break it away from Pakistan. We even gave up an Indian island to Sri Lanka (Kachatheevu). LOL at India being obsessed with land occupation. Rajiv initially thought supporting Tamil separatist movements can gain him more votes in Tamil Nadu and didn't expect separatist movement to be strong enough to actually threat Sri lanka. The problem was that Tamil people in Sri Lanka wasn't worshiping political parties,movie stars, were generally more educated and separatist movements were very organized by few groups and even a bit more advanced too. He figured it was strong enough that it may create a separatist movement in India. Then he realized he messed up and decided to unscrew what he started by using our own forces to destroy a separatist movement which India should have supported. This is what angers me about the central government, the annexation of Kachatheevu with Sri lanka has resulted in 800+ Indian fishermen being killed by Sri Lankan Navy and you don't hear that on the news as Sri Lanka is not Pakistan and Sri Lanka is needed as an ally to India to prevent China from setting up military bases which almost happened with Sri Lanka's man-made island controversy. When did anyone say Pakistan want to invade Sri Lanka ? If India wants to invade any other country it would have been Bhutan. India has no desire to occupy lands.
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We just have to agree to disagree on Tiger as to who controls it. Pak does so, the video clearly shows that and it is an Indian not Pak one as well. The thing is that your media always paints every loss as a victory thereby influencing your minds. The Pak media is much more impartial and mature compared to the Indian one that can be seen whenever some conversation is held between the two people. Pak see's Kargil as more of a stalemate but India certainly did not win it, no way man!!

Pak lost many soldiers for sure, no doubt about it at all. They would have known that would be so prior to taking action I mean it is impossible for that not to happen. I believe most Pak soldiers died when Nawaz decided to pull back leaving them high and dry in Indian territory. I think one day Pak may have lost three soldiers then the next 7 followed by none on day three. Some reports suggest more Pakistanis were killed where as others say it were the Indians.

The Pak belief is that India certainly did want to occupy Sri Lanka and even supported separatists as well. In post 119 you say " India didn't invade Sri Lanka like Pakistan did" that I take as you thinking Pak wants Sri Lanka??:)) There is no reason why Pak would ever think off such a thing at all. What war are you talking about here that you fought for Sri Lanka? There was some Sri Lankan separatist whose name does not come to mind that India supported during Sri Lanka's troubled period that is much similar to how you support Baloch terrorist Bugti as well possibly even granting him Indian citizenship according to many reports? Why is it that India has problem's with every neighbour not only Pak but China, Nepal, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka as well? Now don't tell me this is not true. I am not saying all Indian people are bad but your establishment just wants complete control of the entire subcontinent that is impossible!! Again, not every Sri Lankan see's India as an enemy yet many do as well, I have met some myself! Anyway I think it was due to Pak's interference that India stopped meddling in Sri Lanka's internal affairs. As far as I know China is setting up a lot of things in Sri Lanka other then military installations:))) Any China-Hind conflict will greatly effect Pak one way or another so I don't want that at all. What I want is for India to stop interfering in Pak affairs, thats all.
 
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PakLFC said:
We just have to agree to disagree on Tiger as to who controls it. Pak does so, the video clearly shows that and it is an Indian not Pak one as well. The thing is that your media always paints every loss as a victory thereby influencing your minds. The Pak media is much more impartial and mature compared to the Indian one that can be seen whenever some conversation is held between the two people. Pak see's Kargil as more of a stalemate but India certainly did not win it, no way man!!

Pak lost many soldiers for sure, no doubt about it at all. They would have known that would be so prior to taking action I mean it is impossible for that not to happen. I believe most Pak soldiers died when Nawaz decided to pull back leaving them high and dry in Indian territory. I think one day Pak may have lost three soldiers then the next 7 followed by none on day three. Some reports suggest more Pakistanis were killed where as others say it were the Indians.

The Pak belief is that India certainly did want to occupy Sri Lanka and even supported separatists as well. In post 119 you say " India didn't invade Sri Lanka like Pakistan did" that I take as you thinking Pak wants Sri Lanka??:)) There is no reason why Pak would ever think off such a thing at all. What war are you talking about here that you fought for Sri Lanka? There was some Sri Lankan separatist whose name does not come to mind that India supported during Sri Lanka's troubled period that is much similar to how you support Baloch terrorist Bugti as well possibly even granting him Indian citizenship according to many reports? Why is it that India has problem's with every neighbour not only Pak but China, Nepal, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka as well? Now don't tell me this is not true. I am not saying all Indian people are bad but your establishment just wants complete control of the entire subcontinent that is impossible!! Again, not every Sri Lankan see's India as an enemy yet many do as well, I have met some myself! Anyway I think it was due to Pak's interference that India stopped meddling in Sri Lanka's internal affairs. As far as I know China is setting up a lot of things in Sri Lanka other then military installations:))) Any China-Hind conflict will greatly effect Pak one way or another so I don't want that at all. What I want is for India to stop interfering in Pak affairs, thats all.
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The actual Tiger Hill is also called Point 4660 and right now it is being controlled by our forces, a near by Point is being controlled by Pak forces. This is a fact. Who won is subjective. You can feel free to disagree. But the actual Tiger Hill is under our force's control.

Why Pak soldiers suffered losses are also subjective and here say. No one knows how many soldiers Pakistan lost. Is there even a memorial for fallen Pakistani soldiers with their names ? Generally you look for those to get accurate numbers. India has a memorial for kargil soldiers so I'm sure the given casualties are accurate. On the other hand Indian war memorial for soldiers died in Sri Lanka is not in India and is in Sri Lanka. This is a bad sign and it was intentionally set up to hide heavy casualties.

I made a typing error, I meant to say "India didn't invade Sri lanka like Pakistan invaded India". Sri Lanka either told India to finish of separatism that India helped(not a lot) or India took the responsibility for their action again it wasn't a big contribution as anyone beliefs. Mostly it is the later one. Pak influence had nothing to do with India's role after 90sin Sri Lanka. India wanted Sri Lanka to be their ally and break Pak-SL relations and to gain political support in South India. Started of with helping separatist groups (not just one guy)in Sri Lanka. Pak and China got closer and India was concerned that mostly China and Pak may start docking naval toys in Sri Lanka and encircle India from all the 4 sides. Sri Lanka played a brilliant game and made India fight Sri Lanka's war which had to be the worst Indian political, strategical and military disaster of all time. Imagine China fighting Pakistan's war and end up getting nothing in return. India doesn't have problem with Bangladesh, Nepal or even China. South Asian countries including China will not get into a major war and UN won't let them last. It is just not happening. India doesn't want Pakistan interfering in India's matter either but both countries will interfere and cause chaos. Look at both countries' police, politicians an average citizen, do you think one side is an angel and the other side a devil ? There are no good guys or bad guys in warfare my friend.
 
Let alone Kulbhushan, they have labelled even their former president Zardari a RAW agent :)))

This is not coming from some irrelevant joker, but from the former home minister of Sindh and a close friend of Zardari.

[UTUBE]jQJMxgn-2d0[/UTUBE]
 
Moh@n said:
Let alone Kulbhushan, they have labelled even their former president Zardari a RAW agent :)))

This is not coming from some irrelevant joker, but from the former home minister of Sindh and a close friend of Zardari.

[UTUBE]jQJMxgn-2d0[/UTUBE]
Click to expand...

Who is "they"
 
Specialisttailender said:
The actual Tiger Hill is also called Point 4660 and right now it is being controlled by our forces, a near by Point is being controlled by Pak forces. This is a fact. Who won is subjective. You can feel free to disagree. But the actual Tiger Hill is under our force's control.

Why Pak soldiers suffered losses are also subjective and here say. No one knows how many soldiers Pakistan lost. Is there even a memorial for fallen Pakistani soldiers with their names ? Generally you look for those to get accurate numbers. India has a memorial for kargil soldiers so I'm sure the given casualties are accurate. On the other hand Indian war memorial for soldiers died in Sri Lanka is not in India and is in Sri Lanka. This is a bad sign and it was intentionally set up to hide heavy casualties.

I made a typing error, I meant to say "India didn't invade Sri lanka like Pakistan invaded India". Sri Lanka either told India to finish of separatism that India helped(not a lot) or India took the responsibility for their action again it wasn't a big contribution as anyone beliefs. Mostly it is the later one. Pak influence had nothing to do with India's role after 90sin Sri Lanka. India wanted Sri Lanka to be their ally and break Pak-SL relations and to gain political support in South India. Started of with helping separatist groups (not just one guy)in Sri Lanka. Pak and China got closer and India was concerned that mostly China and Pak may start docking naval toys in Sri Lanka and encircle India from all the 4 sides. Sri Lanka played a brilliant game and made India fight Sri Lanka's war which had to be the worst Indian political, strategical and military disaster of all time. Imagine China fighting Pakistan's war and end up getting nothing in return. India doesn't have problem with Bangladesh, Nepal or even China. South Asian countries including China will not get into a major war and UN won't let them last. It is just not happening. India doesn't want Pakistan interfering in India's matter either but both countries will interfere and cause chaos. Look at both countries' police, politicians an average citizen, do you think one side is an angel and the other side a devil ? There are no good guys or bad guys in warfare my friend.
Click to expand...

The video shows that Tiger Hill is controlled by Pak. I am just going by that which is sufficient evidence for me and it is an Indian report as well. You do have a strong presence in the area below where our boys are standing, I have also heard this from some Pak soldiers. Having never visited the part of the world can not say for certain:mv

I don't know of any Pak war memorial in regards to the Kargil conflict not that is would really make any difference I mean it can be inaccurate as anything else in regards to how many people lost their lives, right?? I know a good number of Pak soldiers died as well if it makes you happy, numbers differ according to different reports. Pak invaded India, what??:warner

I don't know the in's and out's of the situation between India and Sri Lanka other then India's various attempts to annex it. http://www.thehindu.com/news/intern...-sri-lanka-in-the-mid1980s/article3419381.ece

This historically has always been India's attitude towards all its neighbours which is why it has problems with every neighbour? No one is an angel here including Pak, we also have problems with Afghanistan as well as you guys that are well documented. Oh come on man of course you have disputes with Bangladesh and China, what you on about? You have even fought a war against the Chinese and continue to dispute on so many matters. I hope for the sake of the entire region that there is no war between these two that will put the entire region on fire.
 
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International Court Puts Freeze On Kulbhushan Jadhav's Execution By Pak

The International Court of Justice in Hague, Netherlands, has put a freeze on the death sentence given by Pakistan to Kulbhushan Jadhav, an Indian national it accused of spying. A letter has been sent to Pakistan Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif in this regard, official sources said.

The International Court's response came after India filed an appeal on Monday, accusing Pakistan of "egregious violations of the Vienna Convention" and seeking a stay on Mr Jadhav's execution. Mr Jadhav, a retired Naval officer, was kidnapped from Iran, where he was running a business, India said. In its appeal, India also said if Pakistan is unable to annul its decision to execute Mr Jadhav, the court should declare the decision "illegal".

External Affairs minister Sushma Swaraj, who met Bert Koenders, the visiting foreign minister of Netherlands this morning, tweeted that she has already spoken to Mr Jadhav's mother and informed her of the International Court's order.

Mr Jadhav's mother filed an appeal at a higher court asking fr his release, after Pakistan turned down India's repeated requests for consular access to Mr Jadhav.

In the appeal to the international court, India mentioned the lack of consular access and said it found out about Mr Jadhav's death sentence from a press release. Pakistan had contended that consular access is given only to civilian prisoners under a 2008 agreement. Since Mr Jadhav had been caught spying, he was not entitled to consular access, Pakistan contended.

Pakistan had claimed that Mr Jadhav was arrested on March 3, 2016, from the restive Balochistan province. Last month, a military court sentenced him to death, alleging he was working as a spy for intel agency Research and Analysis Wing or RAW. Pakistan also claimed that he was "a serving officer in the Indian Navy". Days after his arrest, the Pakistan army had released a video in which he was seen admitting to the claims made by Pakistan. India has rubbished the claims.

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/inte...s-death-sentence-of-kulbhushan-jadhav-1691539
 
How about the International Court of "Justice" ever look into Indian atrocities in Kashmir.


Now we must execute Yadav even it means getting the ire of these "holier than thou" folks.
 
Good. Let's hope Pakistan follows a proper procedure and backs it with evidence that is strong enough to be shared internationally.
 
Syed1 said:
How about the International Court of "Justice" ever look into Indian atrocities in Kashmir.


Now we must execute Yadav even it means getting the ire of these "holier than thou" folks.
Click to expand...

our country.our court.our rules.

/joshila
 
Syed1 said:
Our country our rules.
Click to expand...

American activities in the last one and a half decade don't suggest so, but I am fine even if it is the case. Just glad that this sham of a trial has been called out.
 
Zak_Fan said:
American activities in the last one and a half decade don't suggest so, but I am fine even if it is the case. Just glad that this sham of a trial has been called out.
Click to expand...

Indians calling it sham doesn't make it sham.


Thank you come again

:salute
 
Other than Indian news outlets, any other sources stating that the ICJ has put a freeze on the sentence? The ICJ's website shows a press release (dated 09 May 2017) indicating that India has started proceedings. However, ( as of writing this post) there's no mention in the press release, or anywhere else on the ICJ website, that the ICJ has ordered a freeze.

http://www.icj-cij.org/homepage/
 
Yossarian said:
Other than Indian news outlets, any other sources stating that the ICJ has put a freeze on the sentence? The ICJ's website shows a press release (dated 09 May 2017) indicating that India has started proceedings. However, ( as of writing this post) there's no mention in the press release, or anywhere else on the ICJ website, that the ICJ has ordered a freeze.

http://www.icj-cij.org/homepage/
Click to expand...

Indians lying as usual, nothing on the website you're right. Nothing will happen.
 
Zak_Fan said:
Good. Let's hope Pakistan follows a proper procedure and backs it with evidence that is strong enough to be shared internationally.
Click to expand...

Why? He was caught in Pakistan and he went through Pakistan law and justice was served.
 
As per my understanding ICJ ruling binding only if previously agreed with rules and non binding otherwise in which case the state can still reject and go ahead with their own decisions. Most probably in Pakistan's case it will not be binding and hence can follow their rule of land.

The flipside would be it may face international community basic sanctions and very bad reputation for future issues in ICJ.
 
adit_sh said:
As per my understanding ICJ ruling binding only if previously agreed with rules and non binding otherwise in which case the state can still reject and go ahead with their own decisions. Most probably in Pakistan's case it will not be binding and hence can follow their rule of land.

The flipside would be it may face international community basic sanctions and very bad reputation for future issues in ICJ.
Click to expand...

The court as a matter of principle can't deal with the principles that lie outside of the consensual ambit it has determined subsists with regard to the dispute in question.

At this stage court needs to establish its jurisdiction.

When choosing between various grounds upon which to accept or reject jurisdiction, there were three criteria to guide the Court.These were first, consistency with previous case-law in order to provide predictability as ‘consistency is the essence of judicial reasoning’; secondly,certitude, whereby the Court should choose the ground most secure in law, and, thirdly, as the principal judicial organ of the United Nations, the Court should be ‘mindful of the possible implications and consequences.
Click to expand...

Then if jurisdiction established, in its deliberations the Court will apply the rules of international law as laid down in article 38 (treaties, custom, general principles of law).
 
International Court of Justice to hear Kulbhushan Jadhav's case on May 15

NEW DELHI: The next hearing in the case of former Indian Navy officer Kulbhushan Jadhav at the International Court of Justice that has stayed his execution in Pakistan, will take place on May 15, the judicial body said in a press release on Wednesday.

"The International Court of Justice (ICJ), the principal judicial organ of the United Nations, will hold public hearings on Monday 15 May 2017... in the proceedings insituted by the Republic of India on 8 May 2017 against the Islmaic Republic of Pakistan," the statement said.

The ICJ further stated the hearing will be devoted to the request for provisional relief submitted by India in the matter of Kulbhushan Jadhav. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...dhavs-case-on-may-15/articleshow/58616439.cms

C_e0zE5XYAAhl5D.jpg:large.jpg
 
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Zak_Fan said:
NEW DELHI: The next hearing in the case of former Indian Navy officer Kulbhushan Jadhav at the International Court of Justice that has stayed his execution in Pakistan, will take place on May 15, the judicial body said in a press release on Wednesday.

"The International Court of Justice (ICJ), the principal judicial organ of the United Nations, will hold public hearings on Monday 15 May 2017... in the proceedings insituted by the Republic of India on 8 May 2017 against the Islmaic Republic of Pakistan," the statement said.

The ICJ further stated the hearing will be devoted to the request for provisional relief submitted by India in the matter of Kulbhushan Jadhav. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...dhavs-case-on-may-15/articleshow/58616439.cms

View attachment 73992
Click to expand...
Why is it that time after time none of you are able to read and/or comprehend the text of what you're posting. For the umpteenth time, as of yet, the ICJ has not 'frozen' anything - there is no mention in their statements regarding that. Even the above statement says that the court will consider India's request on 15 May 2017. Do read what you're posting.
 
Yossarian said:
Why is it that time after time none of you are able to read and/or comprehend the text of what you're posting. For the umpteenth time, as of yet, the ICJ has not 'frozen' anything - there is no mention in their statements regarding that. Even the above statement says that the court will consider India's request on 15 May 2017. Do read what you're posting.
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Becoz thats what Indian media/modi govt feed them ....
 
Not sure if he is guilty or not but I appreciate that the government is putting up a fight for him. Historically we have left captured agents to the mercy of the enemy state, good to see that we are not continuing the inhumane policy
 
Yossarian said:
Why is it that time after time none of you are able to read and/or comprehend the text of what you're posting. For the umpteenth time, as of yet, the ICJ has not 'frozen' anything - there is no mention in their statements regarding that. Even the above statement says that the court will consider India's request on 15 May 2017. Do read what you're posting.
Click to expand...


I posted the article, not my views or what I comprehend.

Secondly, this indeed is in effect a stay until the matter receives further hearings. If Pakistan honors it's commitment to ICJ, any chance of Pakistan hurrying the execution gets ruled out.
 
Zak_Fan said:
I posted the article, not my views or what I comprehend.

Secondly, this indeed is in effect a stay until the matter receives further hearings. If Pakistan honors it's commitment to ICJ, any chance of Pakistan hurrying the execution gets ruled out.
Click to expand...

Lonewarrior said:
Becoz thats what Indian media/modi govt feed them ....
Click to expand...

Yossarian said:
Why is it that time after time none of you are able to read and/or comprehend the text of what you're posting. For the umpteenth time, as of yet, the ICJ has not 'frozen' anything - there is no mention in their statements regarding that. Even the above statement says that the court will consider India's request on 15 May 2017. Do read what you're posting.
Click to expand...



ICJ1.jpg


http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/168/19426.pdf

Pending the meeting of the court the parties cannot act in anyway that may effect the orders of the court to take affect.It is a STAY.
 
'Pakistan doesn't accept ICJ's jurisdiction in Jadhav's case'

ISLAMABAD (Dunya News) – Attorney General of Pakistan was reportedly briefed on Friday over Indian spy Kulbhushan Jadhav’s issue and according to the sources, Pakistan is to deny jurisdiction of International Court of Justice (ICJ) to over cases that have Pakistan’s national stability at stake.

According to the sources, the Attorney General was briefed over Pakistan’s stance on Jadhav’s issue around two days after India moved to ICJ.

In an application filed in ICJ, India has termed Jadhav s death sentence “egregious violations of the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations.” India has maintained that it has been repeatedly denied consular access to Jadhav.

The international court is set to hold public hearings of the case starting from May 15.


Pakistan does not accept international court’s jurisdiction to order the state in issue that involves its national stability, the briefing stated, according to the sources.

Jadhav was detained in March 2016 in Balochistan and a confessional video released soon after that showed the in-service Indian navy officer revealing Research and Analysis Wing’s backing to terrorists to fan unrest in Pakistan.

The Indian spy was tried by a military court and sentenced to death last month.

Know also: Moving ICJ against Kulbhushan s sentence is useless : Indian media

Indian Minister for External Affairs, Sushma Swaraj branded the navy officer who was covertly operating against China-Pakistan Economic Corridor the son of the nation.

Indian authorities asserted that all possible steps would be taken to bring Jadhav back.

However, the civil leadership has denied possibility of any leniency at any level to spies who work to destabilise the country.

Watch video report:

http://dunyanews.tv/index.php/en/Pakistan/388084-Pakistan-doesnt-accept-ICJs-jurisdiction-in-Jad
 
Blow for Pakistan, International court orders STAY against execution... Doors slowly opening for India..
 
I, for one, am glad this case went to ICJ. Justice should be done and no innocent person should be killed off. If he is what our government claims him to be then present the evidence and go ahead with the execution.
 
So ICJ indeed ordered the stay of the execution till the final hearing. Counsulor access to be provided and court also said that both parties are binded by the decision.
 
ICJ prohibits Pak from executing Jadav until its proceedings are over (till August)
Give India consular access to Jadav :ICJ
 
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