India's refusal to play Pakistan should cost ranking points

[KingKhanWC]

India are due to play Pakistan in a test series this year according to the future tours programme but as we all know since the attacks in Mumbai in 2008 India have refused to play Pakistan in a bilateral series. The reasons haven't been made clear with various statements issued by the BCCI and the Indian government.

Pakistan is ready to play and uphold it's commitments to the future tours programme which all cricketing nations have agreed to try and meet.

Pakistan cricket board chairman Zaka Ashraf has made attempts to arrange the series with the BCCI to no avail. He has offered to play in the UAE and meet any other reasonable demands of the India.

Ehsan Mani has called these attempts a waste of time and advised the Pakistan cricket board to seek government help in arranging the series as its politics which are holding it back.

Whatever the reasons are why should the Pakistan team lose an opportunity to gain rankings points?

If India doesn’t want to play fine but Pakistan should be awarded the revelant points based on a 3-0 series victory imp. It still a few years away but the test championship will be played amongst the top 4 ranked teams. This is the goal of all nations to become the world test champions and every team should be given a fair opportunity to get themselves in the top 4 positions.


If India was to lose points it may change the stance of the Indian government and other governments who refuse to play nations based on political disputes. The same goes for England who refuses to play Zimbabwe.

Come and play India or lose the points and let us progress up the ladder.

 

[Blitz]

I think thats a brilliant idea.


The fact that India refuses to play even on neutral grounds should have some kind of consequence.


We've played SL, Aus, Eng, SA, WI, SL, and NZ on neutral grounds.

So why are India so special?

 

[Zaz]

I agree Icc should get their finger and punish the indians by awarding pakistan the points

 

[KingKhanWC]

I know it was a global tournament but when England refused to play Zimbabwe in the 2003 World they lost points.

The same principle applies here. India refusing to play is losing Pakistan an opportunity to gain points which may come in vital when gunning for the World Test Championship in a few years(if points are not cleared and teams have to start again, which I doubt).

 

[justarslan]

I know it was a global tournament but when England refused to play Zimbabwe in the 2003 World they lost points.

The same principle applies here. India refusing to play is losing Pakistan an opportunity to gain points which may come in vital when gunning for the World Test Championship in a few years(if points are not cleared and teams have to start again, which I doubt).

Aussies also lost points in 96 world cup when they refused to play Sri Lanka in Sri Lanka for security reasons.

 

[Warfare]

Excellent idea.

But we all know why it won't happen. BCCI is the most powerful cricket board out there and the ICC will never challenge them.

My advice is, for both the ICC to do something about this. The BCCI is one big crybaby.

 

[zakoota]

absolutely brilliant idea. op is a genius. but how to convey this idea to the men at the helm of affairs.

 

[AZ]

not to mention lost revenue.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

great idea bro

 

[KingKhanWC]

Well according to Haroon Lorgat other boards can raise their opinions and India don't make the decisions at the ICC. If all other boards were to vote on such a ruling of points deduction when one team refuses to play then such a motion could be passed.

 

[themask1]

and who will punish them, Sharad pawar the head of the ICC. Never gonna happen

 

[farazaidi]

good idea, but our players will still miss a chance to boast their averages

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Wicked idea.

Though it should be noted, even while India play, they are losing points! )

 

[DOOSRA95]

How to bring a change in ICC who are slaves to BCCI and it's money, cricket is one hell of a political foot ball, India uses to it's advantage all the time and it is about time some punitive measures are taken against this BCCI, who is a tool for Indian government.

Sooner the better.

 

[Ryw]

Finally someone on PP with sence , top thread OP

s2k come out of hiding

 

[akheR]

We should ask for worse: a Test series away in England, South Africa or Australia.

 

[Itachi]

Not a good idea (for pakistan)....

India is going down and down.... If by chance the match becomes draw, pakistan will lose point (in coming days).

It won't affect us cz we'l lose anyway. Draw will be a bonus. Can't be said same for pakistan.

 

[WithLoveFromCanada]

Great Idea! I'm all for it.

India should definitely lose points if they're not willing to play. Saj get this point across to PCB. Thanks.

 

[proud_pakistani]

ICC=Indian Cricket Council. Never gonna happen

 

[KingKhanWC]

Not a good idea (for pakistan)....

India is going down and down.... If by chance the match becomes draw, pakistan will lose point (in coming days).

It won't affect us cz we'l lose anyway. Draw will be a bonus. Can't be said same for pakistan.

Pakistan usually crushes minnows.

But do you agree with the idea in principle? Surely if for India playing Pakistan in a series is a major issue then they shouldn't mind too much if they lose some points?

 

[Fireworks11]

A very good idea, quite ridiculous it's been nearly 5 years since an India v Pak Test series.

 

[octavian]

Lost revenue is more important than ranking points. Specially for the series that were already scheduled and then cancelled by BCCI.

 

[James]

Wicked idea.

Though it should be noted, even while India play, they are losing points! )

Hahaha.

Good idea OP. Motivation through conflict avoidance.

Sadly, in Soviet Russia, India governs ICC...

 

[zaid65]

Who care if they do not want to play with us or let them earn all the points in rankings.

We just need to focus and concentrate on our own team. We need to play who ever want to play with us.

If we would become top teams, more and more teams want to play with us and that is the only solution to get more games and more teams wanting to play with us.

 

[AZ]

there is precedent, IIRC South Africa were not willing to tour Pakistan in 02/03.

we threatened to sue as well as face a big fine and they promptly got on the 1st flight

 

[RehanG]

excellent idea can Saj forward this idea to PCB / ICC?

 

[Strike!]

there is precedent, IIRC South Africa were not willing to tour Pakistan in 02/03.

we threatened to sue as well as face a big fine and they promptly got on the 1st flight

Back then PCB actually had some credibility.

 

[Love Pakistan]

A very good idea, quite ridiculous it's been nearly 5 years since an India v Pak Test series.

We are not chickening out! So let them decide whenever they wanna face us! Till then let them lose Agneepath series and all that beating that they take in away series and we'll stick to our winning ways under our Quaid! Misbah ul tuk! Aahir kabhi na kabhi toh aaye ga na oonth pahaar kay neechey!

 

[waqar_ahmad]

I doubt ranking points would be enough to make them play

The rule is simple, India will only play us if their team is much much stronger than us, and they get to make a lot of money.

Otherwise, they will always come up with excuses

 

[octavian]

I doubt ranking points would be enough to make them play

The rule is simple, India will only play us if their team is much much stronger than us, and they get to make a lot of money.

Otherwise, they will always come up with excuses

In fairness, their team has been stronger than us in the past couple of years.

 

[insaftak]

ICC is probably the worst sports body in the world.

The way they have handled so many cricketing issues in recent years is so disgraceful and that includes treatment being handed to Pakistan Cricket and Pakistani Fans.

 

[Wristy_Shuffler]

Well said OP, that is an awesome idea. They are essentially forfeiting the games by refusing to play without giving any good reason.

 

[waqar_ahmad]

In fairness, their team has been stronger than us in the past couple of years.

Hence the "much much stronger" part. Why do you think they were ok with playing with us when Rana was leading our attack

And they still couldnt win the series

Losing to pakistan has political consequences for the indians.

 

[Blitz]

Not a good idea (for pakistan)....

India is going down and down.... If by chance the match becomes draw, pakistan will lose point (in coming days).

It won't affect us cz we'l lose anyway. Draw will be a bonus. Can't be said same for pakistan.

This makes no sense.


1. India is ranked higher then us, so a draw would cost you points.

2. If every team listened to this theory, then no one would want to play anyone in fear of losing points.


1 won't play 2. 2 won't play 3. 3 won't play 4.


Get my drift?

 

[Random Aussie]

Hahaha.

Good idea OP. Motivation through conflict avoidance.

Sadly, in Soviet Russia, India governs ICC...

Big props to you Whippy for the first use of the Russian joke I have seen on PP

Agree with the OP entirely. If India refuse a neutral venue it should be considered a forfeit.

 

[srh]

To be totally fair, India should lose both points and money.

 

[IMMY69]

What a superb idea KingKhanWC!!!

I think other nations would vote for it too, especially as IPL seems to be losing its charm and making Test cricketers into poorer cricketers... So individual boards and revenue income, there's the BigBash, BPL, South African League and the English League so hopefully other nations will see sense and do the right thing!

 

[cricketpassion]

Great idea but unfortunatily ICC dont care about Pak vs Ind. They care about Money which comes from India.

 

[duostyle]

An argument can certainly be made because of the Test championship, but we all know it ain't gonna happen. Even if the idea is presented, the other boards are likely to deny or not vote in it's (PCB's) favour. Lorgat can say whatever he likes to the press but we know that India currently runs the show, it's all about the money and it wouldn't make sense to go against the Indian board.

 

[Lara400]

Bunch of cats just like the 90s afraid of getting whipped. Playing India now will be a waste of time, might get a better fight out of Bangladesh tbh.

 

[JibranAnsari]

Yah , absolutely brilliant. All such matches should be considered as forfeited matches or forfeited series by the team refusing to play.

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

Echo majority of the comments, it is a brilliant idea

Granted they don't want to play in Pakistan, can't really blame them for that BUT there is absolutely no justification for refusing to play the series elsewhere

The BCCI are quite frankly a bunch of morons, maybe the recent phainty they have received will have knocked some sense into them. Though I suspect not with all their bravado talk about "vayt til vee play at home"

 

[Nice-N-Fresh]

Great idea, but I doubt ICC have the balls to face BCCI. Really sad.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Fair point.

Whoever refuses to play should forfeit points as the other team must not suffer on rankings. But that's not how ICC works unfortunately, i think they stated a while ago that they have no say in the bilateral fixtures and that only the national Cricket boards have to work things out between themselves for organizing them. ICC does not forces any board in this matter.

Not a great thing at all. ICC is spineless

 

[duostyle]

I wonder if Mr. Butt already presented something like this to the ICC, the pioneer that he was.

 

[srh]

Echo majority of the comments, it is a brilliant idea

Granted they don't want to play in Pakistan, can't really blame them for that BUT there is absolutely no justification for refusing to play the series elsewhere

The BCCI are quite frankly a bunch of morons, maybe the recent phainty they have received will have knocked some sense into them. Though I suspect not with all their bravado talk about "vayt til vee play at home"

It was Phainta actually. dont undermine its severity.

 

[srh]

Fair point.

Whoever refuses to play should forfeit points as the other team must not suffer on rankings. But that's not how ICC works unfortunately, i think they stated a while ago that they have no say in the bilateral fixtures and that only the national Cricket boards have to work things out between themselves for organizing them. ICC does not forces any board in this matter.

Not a great thing at all. ICC is spineless

what about lost revenues? I think the culprit board should pay too.

 

[saj001]

Some of us are hypocrites! Not long ago Rankings didn't matter to us now its everything.

 

[kkmix]

We will be ahead of them in the ranking system by next year anyways. OP makes sense though.

 

[Blitz]

Some of us are hypocrites! Not long ago Rankings didn't matter to us now its everything.

The Test World Championship changed that.


Being in the top 4 at all times is now a must for any team.

 

[Inzy's Aloo]

Top stuff KKWC, if India decide to duck us they deserve to get penalised in some sort of way

 

[munda_khi]

its all depending upon the reasons india present for not playing. if security is the reason then ofcourse they can play on neutral grounds but if relationship between two countries are the reason nobody can force them. as far as i remember, icc cannot do anything in case of govt. decision. few years back when england dont want to tour to zimbawe, ecb asked there govt to cancel the tour as if ecb cancel it they have to pay compensation.

 

[Random Aussie]

what about lost revenues? I think the culprit board should pay too.

Dont agree. Morally perhaps but not enforceable.

 

[AZ]

Dont agree. Morally perhaps but not enforceable.

If you adhere to and are bound by an agreement to fulfill a commitment then surely you can claim damages?

 

[akheR]

If you adhere to and are bound by an agreement to fulfill a commitment then surely you can claim damages?

Yes, you can in my book.

 

[Muhammad Waleed]

They're scared of us. Enough said.

 

[Itachi]

what about lost revenues? I think the culprit board should pay too.

actually it was a trend started by PCB, not BCCI. In the early 90s, pakistan refused to play in india. PCB didn't pay anything for the lost revenues.... What BCCI is doing, is wrong. But PCB also isn't the angel here nor can play the victim card. (most posters here are young, so i guess they don't know these old facts but that doesn't mean it can be thrown away in dustbin.)

 

[Itachi]

This makes no sense.


1. India is ranked higher then us, so a draw would cost you points.

2. If every team listened to this theory, then no one would want to play anyone in fear of losing points.


1 won't play 2. 2 won't play 3. 3 won't play 4.


Get my drift?

1. By this year, india probably will be ranking with the minnows. So draw will cost pakistan more.

2. It was a sarcastic point. I thought people will see through it.

 

[hur rizvi]

Absolutely brilliant Idea

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

India are due to play Pakistan in a test series this year according to the future tours programme but as we all know since the attacks in Mumbai in 2008 India have refused to play Pakistan in a bilateral series. The reasons haven't been made clear with various statements issued by the BCCI and the Indian government.

Pakistan is ready to play and uphold it's commitments to the future tours programme which all cricketing nations have agreed to try and meet.

Pakistan cricket board chairman Zaka Ashraf has made attempts to arrange the series with the BCCI to no avail. He has offered to play in the UAE and meet any other reasonable demands of the India.

Ehsan Mani has called these attempts a waste of time and advised the Pakistan cricket board to seek government help in arranging the series as its politics which are holding it back.

Whatever the reasons are why should the Pakistan team lose an opportunity to gain rankings points?

If India doesn’t want to play fine but Pakistan should be awarded the revelant points based on a 3-0 series victory imp. It still a few years away but the test championship will be played amongst the top 4 ranked teams. This is the goal of all nations to become the world test champions and every team should be given a fair opportunity to get themselves in the top 4 positions.


If India was to lose points it may change the stance of the Indian government and other governments who refuse to play nations based on political disputes. The same goes for England who refuses to play Zimbabwe.

Come and play India or lose the points and let us progress up the ladder.

Agree 100%

Everyone should have to play each other over a 4 year period.

If you dont like a team play 3 matches, if you like them, play 5 matches.

But you have to play them.

 

[Down2Earth]

someone from pakpassion should write to the ICC with this proposal. I'd like to see what they reply back with.

there's no doubt that we're losing out on points by not playing them. We've done everything in our power to play them, they haven't.

 

[spoiled]

This is never going to happen, we all know

India should play pakistan, India will play Pakistan since they are going down and Pakistan obviously is going up, more than ever teams should want to play Pakistan

And anyway no team has the right to be in top 4 without playing another top team

But nobody gives a hoot right now.do they

 

[QazzarFan]

ICC need to revamp their laws or their credibility takes a giant hit. Why is India not playing Pak in a neutral venue? India should get penalized for this decision.

 

[Random Aussie]

If you adhere to and are bound by an agreement to fulfill a commitment then surely you can claim damages?

FTP is not legally enforceable, in my opinion.

You cannot force a country to tour by threat of paying damages.

And even if you could, terrible precedent. Boards would be suing each other over scheduling ie three test series worth more than two test series...Bangladesh could sue other countries for not hosting them...

The fight should be concentrated on ranking points not money. In any event why money? Even if money was paid Pakistan cricket won't see it. It's just a proposed punishment because BCCI are rich.

 

[James]

Board of Control for International Cricket

 

[Saqs]

Pretty good idea.

Saj and co - any way we could get this conveyed to the higher powers?

 

[trogger]

The higher power is india.

Some of you guys need to chill out and start being realistic, when it comes to political power in international cricket Pakistan is now down with the kiwis.

Nobody is going to stick their neck out to help them and nobody is going to do ANYTHING that might make india angry.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Board of Control for International Cricket

Board of Cricket Corruption International.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

The higher power is india.

Some of you guys need to chill out and start being realistic, when it comes to political power in international cricket Pakistan is now down with the kiwis.

Nobody is going to stick their neck out to help them and nobody is going to do ANYTHING that might make india angry.

Not too worried, as Pakistan ascends towards the top, teams will be lining up to play Pakistan at neutral venues. The potential to earn points will be so great that India will be begging for a series in anticipation they will move up the rankings.

Points will become power.

 

[Itachi]

Board of Cricket Corruption International.

corruption is in human's blood. As long as you are human, one or other way, more or less, you are corrupted. BCCI is a human made system. So it'l follow the same rule. If it was god made system then ya know....

 

[cricketjoshila]

No team has been docked points like that.Not in a bilateral tournry.Were Aus and Eng docked points for refusing to play in Zim?
So thats not gonna happen.

They should continue to try and hold a series.AFAIK BCCI is trying for a odi series in march end.

Politics will always govern all issues in indopak relations

 

[trogger]

Points will become power.

Nope wrong again, power in international cricket does not come from winning tests anymore that should be abundantly clear as india are floundering in tests but still have an iron grip on cricket financially and politically.

Just enjoy that your team is on the way up and forgot the politics, they won't change anytime soon, when it suits india politically and financially they will play pakistan until then you have to wait and just accept that india hold all the cards.

 

[Imy]

Why are we desperate for a game with India. its not like they are the best team around

 

[leatherface58]

^^
dude best and india shouldnt be mentioned in the same sentence except the aforementioned one.

 

[Markhor]

Good idea, but will it be enforced by the ICC ?

We all know who bankrolls the ICC.

Regarding resumption of cricketing ties, I don't like the way Pakistan are having to beg India to restore ties, we can always tour other nations, BUT I also acknowledge that the PCB are missing out on the revenue from Indo-Pak series.

One of the reasons why there were so many Pakistan vs India series a few years ago was because the series generated a lot of revenue which filled the PCB coffers. PCB finances have been run poorly in recent years due to over-expenditure, waste and corruption and an India-Pakistan series was always a way to bail us out.

As for the BCCI, I think they are taking orders from higher up...if the PCB want restoration of cricketing ties, we are going to have to talk to the Indian government rather than the BCCI.

What is irritating is the double standards - imagine the uproar if Pakistan refused to tour England, imagine the media pressure and the self-righteous indignation from the ex-cricketers.

Now look at how the international cricketing community has remained silent on THIS issue.

 

[Areesh]

Top post from OP. Totally agreed with him. Even though ICC isn't going to do anything like this.

 

[ecstatic_freak]

Pakistan should take it to another level and refuse to play 'em in the upcoming Asia cup, should be fun

 

[Couch Cricketer]

Why are we desperate for a game with India. its not like they are the best team around

Them not playing us gives us about 6-9 test less every ftp cycle so when every major teams play like 9-12 test a year we play 7 or 8 only.
So some like Cook would play 60 test in 5 years and would get about 100 test easily in 8-10 years whjere as many of our players after playing over 10 years barely hit 70.

 

[trogger]

It's not going to change anytime soon, the kiwis get even less tests than Pakistan do.

Cricket runs the same way as the rest of the world, those with money make the rules and are the only ones who can change the rules.

Pakistan was a minor political player and that was before the thee match fixing idiots dragged them down even further, it's easy to only blame india but your incompetent board match fixing players and woeful security lapses have played a big part in marginalizing Pakistan's influence in the cricket world.

It might make people feel better to play the victim card but it won't change things for the better, you can't change how much power india has but Pakistan cricket can change the way it runs it's own business.

 

[Proud To Be A Pakistani]

Well I careless about the ranking. My question is they should be made to pay for what they ain't doing its international commitment if you want to skip it you have to pay your way out. Simple is that but can realistically BCCI be pushed for this?