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India's refusal to play Pakistan should cost ranking points

PCB has less leverage and credibility than WI or Zimbabwe cricket boards...
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BCCI know Pak would win 3-0, they fear another defeat against Pak :akhtar
 
The Thrifty Doosra said:
Ok even if Pakistan is not an option just now, why not in India or another neutral venue?? Why has not one sledger above been able to give an answer?!
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India is ready to host test series or any series in India but Pakistan is not ok with that. They want half of the money generated through that series which India is not ready to do that. If it is held in India, then BCCI would consider that as an home series.

Nobody is travelling to Paksitan. so that is not an option at all.

UAE is a banned venue, so that is also not an option.

If PCB can work with other boards, yes it is possible. I dont think PCB has tried that option yet. have not seen anything in media pertaining to that.
 
regardless of political situation Pakistan and India should play In England as most pitches in SC are not good for test cricket(there are some good pitches in India but they are too few).
 
Should India get penalty points for refusing to play Pakistan?

I Had hoped this wouldn't descend into some chaotic political slagging match. Instead I was hoping the fans would voice their concern about the current lack of matches between the two teams. The point deduction would be to provoke a series between the two.
 
Should India get penalty points for refusing to play Pakistan?

I travelled to Pakistan in 2004 for the Pak-India series which was a fantastic series. Border-Gavasker trophy? Nawab of Pataudi trophy? Every Indian fan knows that a Pakistan vs India series trumps any series India has with anyone else.
 
Should India get penalty points for refusing to play Pakistan?

And as to those who continue to use this sporting forum to aire their theories on these particular violent events, I say this: the day when misbah, Umar Akmal and Irfan shoot at the team bus or Ajmal and Junaid carry rifles and shoot at people in a hotel, then that day I will stand shoulder to shoulder with you and also ask for all Pakistan matches to stop and for them to be banned. Until then, India SHOULD play Pakistan.
 
The Thrifty Doosra said:
I Had hoped this wouldn't descend into some chaotic political slagging match. Instead I was hoping the fans would voice their concern about the current lack of matches between the two teams. The point deduction would be to provoke a series between the two.
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You can not provoke people to resolve issues.

You can always provoke to make mess.

For resolving issues it has to be a step by step process. I think first step is for PCB to agree with BCCI and play in India on revenue sharing model with mutually acceptable share.

PCB is not in a position to provoke or force BCCI to do anything. Harsh but true.
 
The Thrifty Doosra said:
And as to those who continue to use this sporting forum to aire their theories on these particular violent events, I say this: the day when misbah, Umar Akmal and Irfan shoot at the team bus or Ajmal and Junaid carry rifles and shoot at people in a hotel, then that day I will stand shoulder to shoulder with you and also ask for all Pakistan matches to stop and for them to be banned. Until then, India SHOULD play Pakistan.
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What ?

Are you saying foreign teams should visit Pakistan now?

You are not kidding. right?
 
if any team cancels a ftp tour for any reason they should be docked points
 
amax said:
India on field??, BTW ask nuetrals which is the best team from SC. Pakistan is one of the best cricketing teams in every format statistically. In addition to that Pakistan maintains its unique brand that is appreciated worldwide. TBH traditionally RSA has not given its due in power circles.
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So India are World Champions and No.2 in tests ... But Pakistan is best team in Subcontinent :)))
 
Should India get penalty points for refusing to play Pakistan?

Until India play Pakistan at Test neither of us can have bragging rights. That, in reality, is what this thread is about- us, the fans, denied the pleasure of those bragging rights.
 
amax said:
regardless of political situation Pakistan and India should play In England as most pitches in SC are not good for test cricket(there are some good pitches in India but they are too few).
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You are right that England pitches make matches exciting and I can understand why Pakistan will agree to that.

Why would BCCI agree to play Pakistan in England ? Even SL pitches are boring. Should SL play in England too ?

In England season England would be playing and in off season why would India play there ? Unless they want to do it for Pakistan as a favor.

So in reality it's not happening.
 
The Thrifty Doosra said:
Until India play Pakistan at Test neither of us can have bragging rights. That, in reality, is what this thread is about- us, the fans, denied the pleasure of those bragging rights.
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India will have bragging right for World cup 2011 and Champions Trophy 2013.

You can wait till Pakistan play test against India :)
 
Garuda said:
You are right that England pitches make matches exciting and I can understand why Pakistan will agree to that.

Why would BCCI agree to play Pakistan in England ? Even SL pitches are boring. Should SL play in England too ?

In England season England would be playing and in off season why would India play there ? Unless they want to do it for Pakistan as a favor.

So in reality it's not happening.
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England is not a run of the mill neutral venue, both teams will get home like support there.
 
amax said:
England is not a run of the mill neutral venue, both teams will get home like support there.
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We Indians and Pakistanis are spread all over the world. But that doesn't mean India should play in England (unless they are playing England).

That is the point. What will BCCI gain by playing in England ?

Was Pakistan playing in England when teams were visiting Pakistan ?
 
amax said:
England is not a run of the mill neutral venue, both teams will get home like support there.
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Although this may be the case with great amounts of sub-continent cricket supporters being present in certain parts of the country, playing in the off-season (the only resort considering England would be playing all of their home Tests during the British summer) would pose a problem because of the unpleasant rainy and cold weather which is prevalent, not only in the winter but even during the summer. Therefore, I don't think it would be a viable alternative to get the teams to play Tests against each other because the weather would ruin many of the games, therefore hindering both spectator numbers (because of a lack of interest as there exist an insufficient amount of match results - wins and losses) and the possibility of competitive, rankings-changing cricket taking place (because draws would probably be in abundance).
 
Penalty points is not the issue.
If BCCI refuses to play Pakistan (at a neutral venue or refuses to visit Pakistan) then it should pay the fair share of expected monetary profits to PCB. It's as simple as that.
 
Robbie said:
Pakistan is due to tour India in April May next year... Now go hide somewhere..
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Is this true? Because I just had a look at Indian cricket schedule and it dont say anything about plaing Pakistan. Please share some light, if its true wonderful news for fans.

Meanwhile Indian cricket calender:

Aus 7 ODIs/T20
SA 7 ODIS/ 2 T20s/ 3 Tests
NZ 2 Tests/ 3 ODIs/ 2 T20s
Asia Cup
World T20
Eng 5 Tests/5 ODIs/ Some T20s
WI 3 Tests/5 ODIs/ Some T20s
Oz 4 Tests/5 ODIs/ Some T20s
World Cup
 
FusedBulb said:
Penalty points is not the issue.
If BCCI refuses to play Pakistan (at a neutral venue or refuses to visit Pakistan) then it should pay the fair share of expected monetary profits to PCB. It's as simple as that.
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Yeh tho poora fusebulb udd gaya hai :msd :kohli
 
Garuda said:
We Indians and Pakistanis are spread all over the world. But that doesn't mean India should play in England (unless they are playing England).

That is the point. What will BCCI gain by playing in England ?

Was Pakistan playing in England when teams were visiting Pakistan ?
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you are not getting my point , if India Pak can manage result oriented good pitches than nothing can match the vibe of Lahore or Karachi. I am not talking about long term.
 
amax said:
you are not getting my point , if India Pak can manage result oriented good pitches than nothing can match the vibe of Lahore or Karachi. I am not talking about long term.
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Aren't you saying Ind and Pakistan should play in England (short term ?)


I am asking, even for short term, why would India play in England ? We can wish for it but in reality why would BCCI even give it an option ?
 
You have a point, if a team refuses to oblige to the FTP they should have to face some sort of penalty. But for such a thing to happen this first has to be approved by the proper authorities i.e. BCCI.
 
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To the OP, have you read Rahul Bhattacharya's book Pundits from Pakistan: On Tour with India 2003-04 regarding that tour? Fantastic read.
 
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Should India get penalty points for refusing to play Pakistan?

The rivalry between Pak and india is unmatched in world cricket and were the BCCI to capitalise on that theses series would be far bigger than the Ashes. As unsaid earlier, you can give it the series fancy names with fancy trophies but India vs anyone else will never attract the same interest or inspire the same passion as India vs Pakistan. That loss is celebrated by trolls but hurts every other genuine cricket fan.
 
Should India get penalty points for refusing to play Pakistan?

And with that, I sign off this thread. Thanks to all the valuable contributions.
 
I don't get why india does not play pak in the UAE atleast?
 
LOL at OP and those asking for point being docked. Arent these points meaningless? No one is stopping PCB is free to create a website called Sooper ICC rankings or Bakeri ICC rankings and give whatever point it wants to itself.....
Unless their is a trophy associated no one gives a damn about any points....
 
Random Aussie said:
Both England and Australia were banned from touring Zimbabwe by their governments not cricket boards. If the Indian government actually bans India from playing then this thread is moot. But if the BCCI refuse to the tour then they should be docked points.
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You can give points to pkaistan team for next 3 series. As if it matters....
 
lilFlip said:
PCB has less leverage and credibility than WI or Zimbabwe cricket boards...
+
BCCI know Pak would win 3-0, they fear another defeat against Pak :akhtar
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Oh really ? I am don't think Pakistan's Dads army team gonna win any game against India in the near future. BCCI will be least bothered about pakistan since India plays Eng, Aus and SA in the next 3 years.
 
Even if ICC give free points to Pakistan, Indian Govt (UPA Congress reign) will still not allow to play against Pakistan. There is not a single thing BCCI can do about it. Why it is so tough for people to understand. :facepalm:

As a fan yes we are losers but remember - Cricket is not more important than people's life.
 
Why should India pay the price? It's Pakistan that can't host International Teams atm.. and Pakistan just played in India (2012-13) and will play more in India in coming years probably with some test matches this time.

For Pakistan they should focus on getting International cricket back in their grounds by achieving that we would have a regular Indo-pak bilateral series back
 
The Rock said:
Even if ICC give free points to Pakistan, Indian Govt (UPA Congress reign) will still not allow to play against Pakistan. There is not a single thing BCCI can do about it. Why it is so tough for people to understand. :facepalm:

As a fan yes we are losers but remember - Cricket is not more important than people's life.
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That my fren is pure and utter BS/bolloks

GOI does allow Pak Hockey players to play in India- they were all given clearances and permission to play/GOI does allow Pak entertainers in the country/GOI does allow trade with Pak, but does not only allow Pak cricketers into India to play- :facepalm:

BCCI board if you cared to look is constituted of GOI+BJP- BCCI dont want to play cricket with Pak due to various issues with PCB (which is another issue)- but has got absolutely nothing to do with GOI.

If GOI was against playing with Pak then there wouldnt have been the series earlier and India would have given a walkover against Pak in CT.

PS this is coming from an Indian fan....
 
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If they don't want to play why force them i wouldn't want to see a series like that.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Anti India gangsters(Bookies etc) having too much influence there.Esp in Dubai and Sharjah.Thats as far as i know.There may be more reasons.
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India fans keep bringing this up but I've never actually read an official statement from the BCCI/GoI saying anything to that effect, I've only heard this from fans...is the entire UAE of limits for the Indian cricket team?
 
Wristy_Shuffler said:
India fans keep bringing this up but I've never actually read an official statement from the BCCI/GoI saying anything to that effect, I've only heard this from fans...is the entire UAE of limits for the Indian cricket team?
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BCCI in its present avtar would never play in the UAE- though ironically the ICC HQ is in Dubai and moved from London...

Truth be said BCCI will never allow Indian team to play there more for the mental scars than any booking shenigans
 
Wristy_Shuffler said:
India fans keep bringing this up but I've never actually read an official statement from the BCCI/GoI saying anything to that effect, I've only heard this from fans...is the entire UAE of limits for the Indian cricket team?
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India always claims that Dawood is in Pakistan (karachi) and runs his business from Dubai. And then he gets into relationship with ATG Miandad.....

You aint looking at the evidences...
 
bin_pendi_ka_lota said:
India always claims that Dawood is in Pakistan (karachi) and runs his business from Dubai. And then he gets into relationship with ATG Miandad.....

You aint looking at the evidences...
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Hasn't Indians hunted Dawood Oh! wait it was in the movie D-Day......:36:
 
Wristy_Shuffler said:
India fans keep bringing this up but I've never actually read an official statement from the BCCI/GoI saying anything to that effect, I've only heard this from fans...is the entire UAE of limits for the Indian cricket team?
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This ban is there since 2000.
 
around March 2014 is the General Election in India
with Modi breathing around, no Indian Govt. will agree to a Pak cricket series specially in UAE
Modi will tear apart the Congress govt for this decision
it sounds silly, but Indo pak cricket is usually tied to political issues surrounding the 2 countries, after the general elections with a stable govt . - YES
i still feel India will be the 1st major country to tour Pakistan, with the new elected Govt. (after mid-2014) Aman initiatives and all that.
 
nish_mate said:
That my fren is pure and utter BS/bolloks

GOI does allow Pak Hockey players to play in India- they were all given clearances and permission to play/GOI does allow Pak entertainers in the country/GOI does allow trade with Pak, but does not only allow Pak cricketers into India to play- :facepalm:

BCCI board if you cared to look is constituted of GOI+BJP- BCCI dont want to play cricket with Pak due to various issues with PCB (which is another issue)- but has got absolutely nothing to do with GOI.

If GOI was against playing with Pak then there wouldnt have been the series earlier and India would have given a walkover against Pak in CT.

PS this is coming from an Indian fan....
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I think you are a UPA govt supporter so not able to see the things clearly.

India started cricket ties with Pakistan under Vajpayee/BJP govt and everything was going smoothly until 26/11 happen.
Yes its a fact that Pakistan didnt do enough to bring Criminals behind the bars, but blame must also go to the Current Congress Government. This Govt being spineless couldnt do anything regarding 26/11, illegal immigrants through Kashmir and other major issues but had a major say to stop cricket with Pakistan.
In 2012 IPL auction, Pakistan players were in the auction but they got unsold. Why you think BCCI will first allow the players to go into auction and then ask Franchices to not buy players. Obviously its the UPA Govt who has not given clearance to Pak players citing security concerns.

Its a fashion these days to blame BCCI, but people need to understand as big as BCCI is...they are puppets of Govenrment.
 
Kianig89 said:
Hasn't Indians hunted Dawood Oh! wait it was in the movie D-Day......:36:
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When he was in Mumbai, He openly ruled bollywood and real estate industry.
I dont blame Pakistan pr PCB for that. If we couldn't do anything to him while he was here I am certain that in Pakistan he has even less number of peoples to tame/bribe.
 
The Rock said:
I think you are a UPA govt supporter so not able to see the things clearly.

India started cricket ties with Pakistan under Vajpayee/BJP govt and everything was going smoothly until 26/11 happen.
Yes its a fact that Pakistan didnt do enough to bring Criminals behind the bars, but blame must also go to the Current Congress Government. This Govt being spineless couldnt do anything regarding 26/11, illegal immigrants through Kashmir and other major issues but had a major say to stop cricket with Pakistan.
In 2012 IPL auction, Pakistan players were in the auction but they got unsold. Why you think BCCI will first allow the players to go into auction and then ask Franchices to not buy players. Obviously its the UPA Govt who has not given clearance to Pak players citing security concerns.

Its a fashion these days to blame BCCI, but people need to understand as big as BCCI is...they are puppets of Govenrment.
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How did you deduce that Einstein coz I cannot deduce that from my post for I was posting from a GOI perspective as an apparatus and not political entitiy?

Anyways how do you argue that then UPA/GOI/BJP/CPM whatever allowed then Pak team to tour in January- dont add up that?

Or allow Pak hockey players or allow Pak entertainers or allow Pak stalls in India Expo?

Lets look at BCCI working committee- Rajeev Shukla (Cong), Arun Jaitley (BJP), Sharad Pawar (NCP)- these are 3 politicos top off my head who run BCCI and surely they carry enough political clout to address any GOI concerns.

My friend where it does not add up is that India will allow all relations with Pak other than playing cricket? :facepalm:
 
nish_mate said:
BCCI in its present avtar would never play in the UAE- though ironically the ICC HQ is in Dubai and moved from London...

Truth be said BCCI will never allow Indian team to play there more for the mental scars than any booking shenigans
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So it's the BCCI's decision to not allow the team to play in the UAE?

cricketjoshila said:
This ban is there since 2000.
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Yeh, I keep hearing this from fans and the like but never really seen/heard anything official on the matter. Would be nice if someone from the BCCI/GoI could clear up exactly why they can't play in the UAE. Was there a backlash from the indian gov. after the '06 DLF cup?
 
Wristy_Shuffler said:
So it's the BCCI's decision to not allow the team to play in the UAE?



Yeh, I keep hearing this from fans and the like but never really seen/heard anything official on the matter. Would be nice if someone from the BCCI/GoI could clear up exactly why they can't play in the UAE. Was there a backlash from the indian gov. after the '06 DLF cup?
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You will need to dig up source from 2000.

I think in an interview the BCCI secretary said that UAE like offshore places are banned.
 
it only makes sense when India cancel already finalized fixtures.
 
cricketjoshila said:
You will need to dig up source from 2000.

I think in an interview the BCCI secretary said that UAE like offshore places are banned.
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So nobody's mentioned this :quote:ban:quote: since 2000? I'm beginning to doubt it even exists. India have been to the UAE twice since 2000 and I don't remember anyone from India having a problem with it.
 
Wristy_Shuffler said:
So nobody's mentioned this :quote:ban:quote: since 2000? I'm beginning to doubt it even exists. India have been to the UAE twice since 2000 and I don't remember anyone from India having a problem with it.
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Ya series in UAE might happen...cant discount that.

If bilateral series between these 2 country starts:

India cannot host always as a part of FTP as its always a Home/Away process
Pakistan hosting game in their soil is out of question.
ECB will not allow Pakistan to use UK as their homeground after 2010.
South Afrcia (Once BCCI's favourite place) is out of equation due to recent saga.

So the option for Pakistan home series is either UAE, SL or Bangladesh.

But before 2015 WC, India have no free time in calender
 
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The Rock said:
Ya series in UAE might happen...cant discount that.

If bilateral series between these 2 country starts:

India cannot host always as a part of FTP as its always a Home/Away process
Pakistan hosting game in their soil is out of question.
ECB will not allow Pakistan to use UK as their homeground after 2010.
South Afrcia (Once BCCI's favourite place) is out of equation due to recent saga.

So the option for West Pakistan home series is either UAE, SL or East Pakistan.

But before 2015 WC, India have no free time in calender
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Fixed.
 
Could anybody tell me the difference between indian blind team and indian team?Just read in another thread that indian blind team is visiting pakistan so why can't the other team visit pakistan?
 
I want to see at least one test series between India and Pakistan before Sachin retires. I hope the two boards can put politics aside and organize a truly historic occasion one more time.
 
deathstreak said:
http://m.gulfnews.com/india-bans-cricket-team-from-sharjah-cup-1.412103

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cr...rt-Sharjah-could-become-corruption-focus.html

digging up old news for those who are unable to google :p
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Thanks for this. According to this report from 2001, the ban was supposed to last 3 years and since then India have been to the UAE, Netherlands and Malaysia and probably other countries with non-regular cricketing venues without any issues. So is the ban still in effect? Is the government which enforced it even in power...?
 
Gangnam said:
I want to see at least one test series between India and Pakistan before Sachin retires. I hope the two boards can put politics aside and organize a truly historic occasion one more time.
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The fact that there haven't been more series while he was still in his prime is a travesty! I totally echo your sentiment that cricket should not be used as a
Political tool and the two teams should definitely play each other. Not just for Tendulkar sake, but also so that the likes of Kohli, Dhawan, Ashwin etc get to play against Junaid, Irfan and Ajmal in Test cricket. Would be much bigger than any Ashes series.
 
Didn't India play a 2 ODI series vs Pakistan in the UAE in 2006?

Why can't they play there now?
 
Forget points, They should be made to compensate PCB. The home TV deals related to an Indian tour are huge. If India doesn't want to play at a neutral venue then ICC and PCB need to grow some.
 
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Pcb need to speak up more.

Politics and sport shouldn't be mixed and normal people are being robbed of a good contest.
 
I like it when people say 'politics and sport should not be mixed'. Utterly meaningless words. Obviously it would be lovely if they were not, but how do you separate politics from anything? Let alone India versus Pakistan.
 
Pak and India need to play in a test match please, they only pkay each other like once a year, that's in tournaments, we only had 1 series against them which was this year, can't see another happening for ages
 
James said:
I like it when people say 'politics and sport should not be mixed'. Utterly meaningless words. Obviously it would be lovely if they were not, but how do you separate politics from anything? Let alone India versus Pakistan.
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Well said. Sports can't exist in a vacuum.

Back to Ind-Pak cricket relations, I keep re-iterating that any break in these is always initiated by Pak first. They want to show the world who's the boss -- they break the relations, get into meaningless sabre-rattling via the media, and then after some time get into whining mode if India doesn't restore relations.

The usual sense of entitlement!

And I'm yet to see a Pak fan suggest that they should be penalised for breaking the relations in the first place!
 
Wooster said:
Well said. Sports can't exist in a vacuum.

Back to Ind-Pak cricket relations, I keep re-iterating that any break in these is always initiated by Pak first. They want to show the world who's the boss -- they break the relations, get into meaningless sabre-rattling via the media, and then after some time get into whining mode if India doesn't restore relations.

The usual sense of entitlement!

And I'm yet to see a Pak fan suggest that they should be penalised for breaking the relations in the first place!
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I do not agree with this. We had normalcy restored during Musharraf and Kargill was forgotten (atleast in cricketing ties). However after Mumbai 2008, Indian Government took a much tougher stance. At the same time BCCI had allready figured out how to keep on making money (IPL) without ICC FTP. Bottomline is BCCI and its bookies do not need a India Pakistan series to make money no more.
BCCI & PCB clearly knows that..... And best PCB can do is ensure that its players are part of IPL and CLT20.

Saying all that, we still play most number of tests and odis per calendar year because everyone wants us to squeeze into their calendar.. No matter what people like Varun think about IPL, I sense IPL is only gonna get bigger
 
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Either take away their points or force Virat Kohli to be replaced with Imran Farhat in the next 3 Test series's.
Make your move, BCCI. Make. Your. Move.
 
Next Pakistan v India test series?

Can somebody explain why do India get to keep their no 3 test ranking without having to play us in a test series?

Despite repeated offers from Pakistan for a fair game. Even a series in India would suffice.

But for the ranking system to be completely fair Pakistan must get opportunity against the team ranked directly above them as have all the other teams above and below India.

Therefore ICC should suspend India from the test rankings or deduct points on a "match forfeit" basis unless they agree to play us in UAE and in India.
 
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I am a Pakistani but this constant whining over India not playing us is getting annoying.
 
Aman said:
You have a point, if a team refuses to oblige to the FTP they should have to face some sort of penalty. But for such a thing to happen this first has to be approved by the proper authorities i.e. BCCI.
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Exactly. Which governing body would implement a rule to punish themselves?
 
Gotham Cronie said:
Exactly. Which governing body would implement a rule to punish themselves?
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Is FTP binding?

Is there any sporting federation in the world that makes it binding for two teams to play, unless and until they are participating in a Tournament organised by that sporting body?
 
waqar_ahmad said:
Hence the "much much stronger" part. Why do you think they were ok with playing with us when Rana was leading our attack :p

And they still couldnt win the series

Losing to pakistan has political consequences for the indians.
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Political consequences for India? Last I checked after every world cup lost how many tv's were broken, how many heart attacks and suicides? Our cricketers never had to run to different countries unlike pak players every single time
 
Not playing India helps Pakistan in rankings. You avoid losses and look better thatway.
 
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