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Is a 1-1 Test series result for Pakistan against this West Indies team a failure?

Savak

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To me it is. Pakistan was expected to win 2-0 and regardless of the one wicket defeat in the first test, a loss is still a loss. It is inexcusable to allow the last wicket partnership to score 16 runs to win a test match, that was a complete failure under pressure.

I hope the 1-1 result doesn't allow the likes of Misbah and Waqar get away from scrutiny.
 
Congratulations irrespective, take what you get complain another day.
 
They will almost certainly get away from any scrutiny.

Its a massive failure, this is how we lose easy points.
 
It was below expectations and below optimal level performance mainly due to the first test. Pak’s team overall was much stronger based upon stats and is ranked higher then WI so should have won the series. Batting in first test was poor and then choked as well in the last part of the match.

2nd test where Pak was in a race against time as well clearly showed Pak underperformed in the first test and that should have been won along with the series.
 
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To me it is. Pakistan was expected to win 2-0 and regardless of the one wicket defeat in the first test, a loss is still a loss. It is inexcusable to allow the last wicket partnership to score 16 runs to win a test match, that was a complete failure under pressure.

I hope the 1-1 result doesn't allow the likes of Misbah and Waqar get away from scrutiny.
Well bowler did create chances in first match too but few catches dropped in second inning,including one of Roach cost them match. They were very cloae ro winning that one too. So I say they played well in both matches despite the first lost match. Remember Pakistan have the worst top three batamwn in the world now with aged Azhar Ali,and playing away is not easy.
 
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I mean a part of me is disappointed but think that the 1st test pitch was horrible to bat on. It was some strange tactics as well by Babar and not backing your spinner was something Babar should've tried especially after the fall of Warrican.
 
Overall to add to my previous post its part and parcel of the game as game is not played on paper so there will be times when team underperforms on occasions. However, Pak needs to work on its consistency as underperformance happens quite often and due to controllable factors I believe.
 
No. It's not a failure. Pakistan and WI are evenly matched teams. Both have an okayish bowling attack but a horrible batting lineup. We have to temper our expectations. There is clearly a 2-tier structure within cricket. Tier 1 is India/England/Australia/NZ. Tier 2 is Pakistan/SA/WI/SL. Pakistan at the moment is top of Tier 2 but can lose to anyone in that bracket. So it's not a failure if we drop Tests to SA/WI/SL. WI beat England 2-1 in a Test series in 2019. So I'm not sure why we degrade WI so much.
 
yes.

1. top three were walking wickets
2. had to rely on one pacer to get half of all wickets
3. dropped crucial catches under pressure
4. played yasir shah despite him having no recent first class form or match practice

this west indies team have an international quality pace bowling attack, and apart from one or two players, most batsmen struggled.

there were glaring holes which will be exploited by better teams prior to this series, and none of them have been plugged by this series.
 
West Indies pace attack at home has earned my respect, over the years.

Both Pak and WI batters were hopeless. Especially Pakistani top order, what an atrocious performance.

Considering everything, fair result for us.

Our batters simply lack technique and temperament.
 
No I dont think so.

Pakistan have won what I call 'The Tour'

That is 1 test match and 1 T20 match whereas WI only won one test

We are 'The Tour' Champions
 
It was a massive failure. The only real bright spots were SSA and Fawad.

We are carrying Butt, Abid, Azhar, Yasir Shah, Abbas as passengers.

Our spinner looks around 42 and best batsman is at an age where most people retire.

Probably the worst possible position to start a WTC cycle.
 
I think this could easily have been 2-0 Pakistan and 3-0 if there were a 3rd Test.

Pakistan have done well, WI were very fortunate to win the 1st Test, they were the 2nd best side throughout the series
 
It was a massive failure. The only real bright spots were SSA and Fawad.

We are carrying Butt, Abid, Azhar, Yasir Shah, Abbas as passengers.

Our spinner looks around 42 and best batsman is at an age where most people retire.

Probably the worst possible position to start a WTC cycle.

whilst i agree with most of what u say, shaheen, babar, rizwan, faheem and hassan, hopefully the core of the team going forward, are all under 30.

fawad may be 35 but misbah and younus both played till 43, its not ideal but i think fawad will stick around.

the other issues are however more pressing, need two openers desperately, good teams will maul pakistan if they are 3 down in the first 5 overs.
 
Yasir Shah single handedly lost Pakistan the 1st test by his pathetic leg spin and number 11 style batting at number 8.
 
This is precisely why we should be playing at least three tests.
Quality will always outshine in the end...
 
Had Nauman played instead of Yasir in the first test and we might have won that test match now. Nauman no matter how old he is, right now is the best test spinner for Pakistan.
 
Yes. Drawn series vs an extremely weak WI side is nothing but a failure

The same WI side beat England 3-0. Won a test match in Eng last year right before our started in which we failed to win any. WI at home is a strong team.
 
yes.

1. top three were walking wickets
2. had to rely on one pacer to get half of all wickets
3. dropped crucial catches under pressure
4. played yasir shah despite him having no recent first class form or match practice

this west indies team have an international quality pace bowling attack, and apart from one or two players, most batsmen struggled.

there were glaring holes which will be exploited by better teams prior to this series, and none of them have been plugged by this series.


This is what I hate about 2 test series, because you never get to settle down against the opposition before the series is over. WI won a Fluke test match and all hopes for winning the series was gone. And you can't try your bench strength also. Like Pakistan found out that Yasir is not in form so they went to Nauman Ali who performed well. but it was already too late.
 
The loss of the first test still pains me because we almost escaped a loss there despite being the worse side throughout the first test. We let Kemar Roach score 22 consecutive runs in that chase before the two eventual boundaries that won them the game. Da Silva and Roach were calmly taking singles as the field was spread out. Should have called in right after Da Silva's wicket had fallen with around 30 runs still to get. But we were pathetic with the bat and ball in the first test throughout. Apart from Shaheen and Hasan, our bowling is toothless. In batting, it's Fawad, Babar, Rizwan with Fahim providing some crucial runs.

1. Babar needs to improve a lot. He runs out of steam after 200 deliveries. And plays way too slowly even for tests. Puts undue pressure on himself when he bats like that. His tactics need to improve as well which hopefully will with time.

2. Imran Butt is a fantastic fielder but his batting just doesn't cut it at international level. This should be his last test in a good while.

3. Abid Ali is dead weight that needs to be unloaded. Guess the management is just waiting for the ship to sink further before they drop him.

4. Azhar's form was atrocious in this series. His reflexes are fading fast. Was having technical difficulties. I doubt he'll have another purple patch in him.

5. Abbas took 3 wickets in the first innings of both matches and was economical throughout but no one was troubled by him not even their tailenders. Fahim is bowling with more venom than him at the moment. Needs replacement.

6. Yasir's form is worrying. Looked very slippery and out of sorts in the first test. The test didn't allow for the spinner to have a lengthy spell that could have brought him back into rhythm something that he has done in the past multiple times. Shouldn't be the end of the road for him but needs improvement.
 
It was a massive failure. The only real bright spots were SSA and Fawad.

We are carrying Butt, Abid, Azhar, Yasir Shah, Abbas as passengers.

Our spinner looks around 42 and best batsman is at an age where most people retire.

Probably the worst possible position to start a WTC cycle.
So dedpite all that we drawn a series and nearly won it, so cannot be classed as a failure. I do agree Pakisran team has quite a few passangers.
 
whilst i agree with most of what u say, shaheen, babar, rizwan, faheem and hassan, hopefully the core of the team going forward, are all under 30.

fawad may be 35 but misbah and younus both played till 43, its not ideal but i think fawad will stick around.

the other issues are however more pressing, need two openers desperately, good teams will maul pakistan if they are 3 down in the first 5 overs.

Yeah the top 3 is the main concern. You would hope that someone in the next edition of QEA puts their hands up and claims the spot. Maybe even a number 3-4 batsman willing to take the risk.
 
Oh okay. Still winning against england 2-1 isn't a fluke.

Tru dat.

England seems to have a especially poor record against the WI. Scars from the 1980s I wonder? :)

Nice earlier post (#23) btw.
 
It was a failure because Pakistan has a better bowling attack and these pitches favoured bowlers. Also, WI does not have players with the experience and hype of Azhar and Babar etc.
 
Yeah the top 3 is the main concern. You would hope that someone in the next edition of QEA puts their hands up and claims the spot. Maybe even a number 3-4 batsman willing to take the risk.

well theres potentially 11 tests left in this wtc cycle, and azhar needs 11 tests to reach 100, so he aint going anywhere, plus bang series is up next so im guessing he wont wanna miss that.

so only real solution is to send azhar to open and slot in kamran ghulam or saud shakeel at 3. the fairest call however would be to move babar and fawad up one and slot any newbie in at six. wont happen tho.
 
To me it is. Pakistan was expected to win 2-0 and regardless of the one wicket defeat in the first test, a loss is still a loss. It is inexcusable to allow the last wicket partnership to score 16 runs to win a test match, that was a complete failure under pressure.

I hope the 1-1 result doesn't allow the likes of Misbah and Waqar get away from scrutiny.

They will be rewarded with contract extensions since its a 'tough' place to tour.
 
Not the worse result, but not the best either.

West Indies were there for the taking in the first test as they easily lost to South Africa in the test series not long ago at home. But bad batting, Yasir Shah's clown batting and dropped catches in the first test cost us a series win.

Pakistan least have a decent core for their test team in Barbar, Fawad, Rizwan, Faheem, Hassan & Afridi. We are playing home test series so I do expect us to win a few. But time to say goodbye to the openers, Azhar, Yasir and Abbas for the test team.
 
Yes, Pakistan should have dominated this West Indies side in both tests. Should not be pleased with anything other than 2-0
 
Had Hasan Ali not dropped that catch we would have won the series 2-0. 1-1 against such a weak team shows our standing in the game at the moment as well. I am not celebrating at all winning the second test. Now the mighty Afghanistan awaits for our so-called "Shaheens" that the Pak media calls our cricketers.
 
Tru dat.

England seems to have a especially poor record against the WI. Scars from the 1980s I wonder? :)

Nice earlier post (#23) btw.

Thanks. :)

England are an extremely weird team. They do quite well in SL where it spins a lot. But struggle elsewhere in Asia.

Pitches and Conditions in South Africa are quite similar to Australia where both SA and Aus have been trading victories for over a decade now. England seem to do extremely well in SA and even won the series quite convincingly but in Australia (apart from 2010-11 ashes), they become kittens.
 
Not a failure.

West Indies are pretty good at home. They beat England 2-1 at home not long ago.

I think 1-1 is a fair result. I also expected 1-1 before the series started.
 
Obviously it's a failure.
West Indies is a poor team at home.

Misbah should be sacked for this incompetence.
 
Not a failure at all.

I don't like 2 tests in a series. Series results may not reflect how teams played. Minimum 3 tests should be played.
 
They will almost certainly get away from any scrutiny.

Its a massive failure, this is how we lose easy points.

It's a MASSIVE failure.

It's also yet another example of a Misbah-coached team performing worse on tour than an Arthur team did on previous tours:

Compare:
WEST INDIES:
Arthur won 2-1, Misbah drew 1-1

ENGLAND:
Arthur drew 1-1 and 2-2, Misbah lost 1-0.

AUSTRALIA:
Both coaches lost 3-0, but Arthur almost won 1 Test and drew the other - Misbah's team took a pathetic 13 wickets in the whole series!!!!

NEW ZEALAND:
Both coaches lost 2-0, but Arthur only lost 2-0 because from 158-1 at tea on the Final Day of the Fifth Test they tried to win the match and took huge risks trying to level the series. Whereas Misbah's team only took 21 wickets in 2 Tests!

Unfortunately for Misbah-ul-Haq, everywhere he follows in the footsteps of Mickey Arthur he makes a complete fool of himself.

And I haven't even mentioned the plummeting fortunes in 20 and 50 overs cricket!
 
Whether we like it or not PCB is satisfied with the performance so as IK. Misbah and Waqar will get another 3 years extension.
 
It's a failure when you consider that Windies have been so poor for many years and this side was a club level side. Bonner, Mayers etc. are a joke. Having said that, Pakistan and England seem to lose test matches to the Windies more so than other test sides. India last lost a test to them in 2002 , Australia in 2003.
 
Please don't hide behind dropped catches for the 1st Test defeat. Drops are to be priced into every Pakistan match.

If you score 203 and 217 then don't expect to win many Test matches.
 
Yes they really should’ve won the first test but poor batting and the crucial catch of roach meant they lost.

Abid and Butt are not proper test openers, would rather have Shan/azhar open with Saud shakeel in the middle order. Surely they can’t continue playing Butt as a specialist slip fielder. Azhar needs to step up as a senior. (Babar, Fawad, Rizwan and Faheem) did well in the middle order. Hasan ali was okay apart from that dropped catch. Yasir’s form outside the uae is a big concern but nauman does not have age on his side. Abbas was okay given that he was on his comeback and was impressive at times, at least he is accurate which creates chances unlike the 2 match psl heroes Misbah gave debuts too. Shaheen was excellent and this series should give him a lot of confidence in the test format. He will only get better from here.

I feel like if Pakistan narrowly miss out on a final spot in this WTC it could be because of the first test vs WI, similar to how they didn’t go through to the semis because of their poor run rate after the West Indies defeat in 2019 WC and misfortune as the Sri Lanka game was washed out.

Anyways really enjoyed their attacking mindset and passion on the 5th day which has been missing for a while so I’m looking forward to their busy home season.
 
It's a MASSIVE failure.

It's also yet another example of a Misbah-coached team performing worse on tour than an Arthur team did on previous tours:

Compare:
WEST INDIES:
Arthur won 2-1, Misbah drew 1-1

ENGLAND:
Arthur drew 1-1 and 2-2, Misbah lost 1-0.

AUSTRALIA:
Both coaches lost 3-0, but Arthur almost won 1 Test and drew the other - Misbah's team took a pathetic 13 wickets in the whole series!!!!

NEW ZEALAND:
Both coaches lost 2-0, but Arthur only lost 2-0 because from 158-1 at tea on the Final Day of the Fifth Test they tried to win the match and took huge risks trying to level the series. Whereas Misbah's team only took 21 wickets in 2 Tests!

Unfortunately for Misbah-ul-Haq, everywhere he follows in the footsteps of Mickey Arthur he makes a complete fool of himself.

And I haven't even mentioned the plummeting fortunes in 20 and 50 overs cricket!

So true.... those who called Arthur a failure need to look closely at this. 50 overs and 20 overs stats will be even worse considering they were no 1 when Misbah started.

Pakistan made a huge mistake not renewing mickeys contract and opting for a unqualified coach with multiple conflicts of interest. Then giving him multiple roles on the basis of having good relations with the pm and being a ‘sensible person’ who understands modern day cricket. 😂
 
I think it’s safe to say we underperformed. I won’t say it was a total failure, but we should have won 2-0.
Our team is decent but based on our skills level and talent, our rankings are nowhere close to being justified. It’s our country district that kills us. We always tend to squander good opportunities for points that should be easy wins. Which is why we are 2-3 spots lower than our potential in each format.
 
Yasir Shah single handedly lost Pakistan the 1st test by his pathetic leg spin and number 11 style batting at number 8.

Absolutely. Yasir Shah loses far more tests than he wins, the guy is a joke. Even so, Pakistan would have won the test if they had picked openers with some sort of pedigree. Still not sure what possessed them to go in with two who have no proven record prior to going into this game.

Pakistan were the better side, if it was a three test series you would have seen that.
 
It's obviously not a great result but it's not a complete failure either. The Caribbean can often be a tricky place to tour, especially after the Windies changed their wickets from slow flat wickets to fast seaming ones. It's obviously a bold and risky strategy but it has borne fruits when they famously beat England on spicy wickets with their bowling attack, and it's much better than their previous wickets where they lost anyway on UAE type wickets.

The drawback of preparing spicy wickets is that it's a two edged sword as the Windies have an inconsistent batting line up. India and SA promptly steamrollered them as they had quicker pace attacks than the Windies, as would Australia if they were to play tests in the West Indies. England struggled in their last series because all their pacers are medium seamers suited to bowling in English conditions. The Pak-WI series was always going to be a banana skin for Pakistan because even though they are a better team than WI, their batting is vulnerable and on spicy wickets, you can't rule out a collapse or two, even if their pace attack would be equally potent on such wickets.

It is for this reason I thought Pakistan whitewashing WI was unlikely and expected it to be a bit of a banana skin series for Pakistan. They perhaps would have liked to have won 2-0 and tbf tbey were close to doing it, but a 1-1 result in what was going to be their trickiest away fixture in this WTC cycle isn't the biggest disaster. All they need to do is to win their home fixtures and win in SL, which is a reasonable expectation as Pak play good in their home conditions. This result would have been far costlier for Pakistan in the past method of calculating team points in the previous WTC cycle, but in the current algorithm, it should not cost them much as long as they win their tricky fixtures at home vs Aus, NZ etc.
 
Won't call it a failure but there will be disappointment for sure as they missed out on 12 points by just 1 wicket.
 
It's a MASSIVE failure.

It's also yet another example of a Misbah-coached team performing worse on tour than an Arthur team did on previous tours:

Compare:
WEST INDIES:
Arthur won 2-1, Misbah drew 1-1

ENGLAND:
Arthur drew 1-1 and 2-2, Misbah lost 1-0.

AUSTRALIA:
Both coaches lost 3-0, but Arthur almost won 1 Test and drew the other - Misbah's team took a pathetic 13 wickets in the whole series!!!!

NEW ZEALAND:
Both coaches lost 2-0, but Arthur only lost 2-0 because from 158-1 at tea on the Final Day of the Fifth Test they tried to win the match and took huge risks trying to level the series. Whereas Misbah's team only took 21 wickets in 2 Tests!

Unfortunately for Misbah-ul-Haq, everywhere he follows in the footsteps of Mickey Arthur he makes a complete fool of himself.

And I haven't even mentioned the plummeting fortunes in 20 and 50 overs cricket!

When did Mickey draw a Test in Australia ? Mickey had a pathetic record in Tests, beyond horrible; he was responsible for Pakistan losing their unbeaten streak in the UAE and the concept of two spinners was alien to him, he also doesn’t deserve any credit at all for drawing level in England, he had just joined the team at that point and Misbah was running the show.

I would agree however that Pakistan under Mickey were on the right track in limited overs cricket and have regressed ever since.
 
Not a failure.

West Indies are pretty good at home. They beat England 2-1 at home not long ago.

I think 1-1 is a fair result. I also expected 1-1 before the series started.

Exactly. West Indies has a good pace attack, even their batting is not so good but its very long. And 2 match swriws is too short for players to adjust.
 
Delighted with the 2nd Test performance and the way that Pakistan played, but overall 1-1 is a poor result.

This West Indies side even at home is a weak side and whilst Pakistan aren't at their strongest theses days, they should be beaten sides like the West Indies.
 
Delighted with the 2nd Test performance and the way that Pakistan played, but overall 1-1 is a poor result.

This West Indies side even at home is a weak side and whilst Pakistan aren't at their strongest theses days, they should be beaten sides like the West Indies.

Whilst I agree with you, I think this series has made us question the places of a lot of players on the team, which is good since it happened early in the WTC.

1.) Abid Ali and Imran Butt are not good enough for test cricket. Abid is a liability with both the bat and whilst fielding as well. Imran is a good fielder, but it doesn't highlight his deficiencies with the bat. Both must be dropped.
2.) Azhar Ali's place in the side is questionable. He is occupying the position at which we have a lot of great domestic performers (Salahuddin, Shakeel, Ghulam). He needs to either open, or he should be dropped. A player like him should be performing in every series and every game to keep his place. It's time the same standard we put on Malik and Hafeez to perform in most occasions is put on Azhar Ali. He's a great player, a true ambassador for Pakistan but his time is almost up, so there's no point in prolonging the inevitable.
3.) Yasir Shah's inconsistency of form is very threatening to his chance of staying in the test team. Whilst Zahid Mahmood is a scattergun with an ER excess of 4, he does provide wickets which Yasir is failing to do. If it comes to it, I would not mind trying Zahid Mahmood in place of Yasir, but his international record is very good and his experience could come in handy, so I would show lenience and keep him on the bench until an opportunity arises where he is needed.
4.) Mohammad Abbas's bowling is yet again toothless with the old ball, especially if batsman step outside the crease. He has come to the point where he isn't even challenging, batsmen don't mind just defending him and buying time on the wicket, allowing them to cash in. This is not a good sign for a bowler if a batsman can just use their spell to cash in, get set, and then look to capitalize. His record is outstanding, but the quality just isn't there. I'd much rather have a Shahnawaz Dahani averaging 28-ish than Abbas, and that's something I stand by.
5.) The batting position of Fawad Alam is something we might need to look into. Whenever he scores a hundred, he is surrounded with the tail and unable to capitalize on the situation. I think that if we get rid of Azhar, he has to become our #3 batsman to accommodate someone like Saud in the middle-order who is good against spin and can provide a decent bowling option too.
6.) Our squad selection is atrocious, we need to drop the excess baggage for good domestic players to increase the competition for spots. Bring in some good domestic pacers and a few good batsmen, and you will have a team that can adapt as it goes along, gradually bringing in players who are needed as they are part of the dressing room.

Our squad of 19 moving forward should be:

Babar Azam (c), Mohammad Rizwan (wk), Hasan Ali, Shaheen Shah Afridi, Nauman Ali, Fawad Alam, Usman Salahuddin, Imam-ul-Haq, Saud Shakeel, Kamran Ghulam, Shahnawaz Dahani, Irfanullah Shah, Mohammad Nawaz, Faheem Ashraf, Zahid Mahmood, Rohail Nazir, Azhar Ali, Zafar Gohar, Naseem Shah.

Sure, there's quite a few inexperienced players but they are players who have performed.
 
They result could have been 2-0 in favor of Pakistan, please mind it
 
Delighted with the 2nd Test performance and the way that Pakistan played, but overall 1-1 is a poor result.

This West Indies side even at home is a weak side and whilst Pakistan aren't at their strongest theses days, they should be beaten sides like the West Indies.

Pakistan have drawn 3 out of last 4 series in WI and on each occasion where we have drawn series we have had to come from 1-0 down against a side we should be beating. Add to that playing 2 test series gives no scope for poor performances which we get from pakistan.
 
Whether we like it or not PCB is satisfied with the performance so as IK. Misbah and Waqar will get another 3 years extension.
I was waiting for this.

Do you have the same copy paste post? Genuinely interested
 
If this was Mickey Arthur’s result, a certain individual would be calling for his head and begging for the mighty Mohsin Khan to take over :))
 
Whilst I agree with you, I think this series has made us question the places of a lot of players on the team, which is good since it happened early in the WTC.

1.) Abid Ali and Imran Butt are not good enough for test cricket. Abid is a liability with both the bat and whilst fielding as well. Imran is a good fielder, but it doesn't highlight his deficiencies with the bat. Both must be dropped.
2.) Azhar Ali's place in the side is questionable. He is occupying the position at which we have a lot of great domestic performers (Salahuddin, Shakeel, Ghulam). He needs to either open, or he should be dropped. A player like him should be performing in every series and every game to keep his place. It's time the same standard we put on Malik and Hafeez to perform in most occasions is put on Azhar Ali. He's a great player, a true ambassador for Pakistan but his time is almost up, so there's no point in prolonging the inevitable.
3.) Yasir Shah's inconsistency of form is very threatening to his chance of staying in the test team. Whilst Zahid Mahmood is a scattergun with an ER excess of 4, he does provide wickets which Yasir is failing to do. If it comes to it, I would not mind trying Zahid Mahmood in place of Yasir, but his international record is very good and his experience could come in handy, so I would show lenience and keep him on the bench until an opportunity arises where he is needed.
4.) Mohammad Abbas's bowling is yet again toothless with the old ball, especially if batsman step outside the crease. He has come to the point where he isn't even challenging, batsmen don't mind just defending him and buying time on the wicket, allowing them to cash in. This is not a good sign for a bowler if a batsman can just use their spell to cash in, get set, and then look to capitalize. His record is outstanding, but the quality just isn't there. I'd much rather have a Shahnawaz Dahani averaging 28-ish than Abbas, and that's something I stand by.
5.) The batting position of Fawad Alam is something we might need to look into. Whenever he scores a hundred, he is surrounded with the tail and unable to capitalize on the situation. I think that if we get rid of Azhar, he has to become our #3 batsman to accommodate someone like Saud in the middle-order who is good against spin and can provide a decent bowling option too.
6.) Our squad selection is atrocious, we need to drop the excess baggage for good domestic players to increase the competition for spots. Bring in some good domestic pacers and a few good batsmen, and you will have a team that can adapt as it goes along, gradually bringing in players who are needed as they are part of the dressing room.

Our squad of 19 moving forward should be:

Babar Azam (c), Mohammad Rizwan (wk), Hasan Ali, Shaheen Shah Afridi, Nauman Ali, Fawad Alam, Usman Salahuddin, Imam-ul-Haq, Saud Shakeel, Kamran Ghulam, Shahnawaz Dahani, Irfanullah Shah, Mohammad Nawaz, Faheem Ashraf, Zahid Mahmood, Rohail Nazir, Azhar Ali, Zafar Gohar, Naseem Shah.

Sure, there's quite a few inexperienced players but they are players who have performed.

Fair point about the future of 3 or 4 players in Test cricket.
 
The problem is the short 2 match series we continually play means that theres no margin for error and pakistan has to come into the first match of a series fully focused, picking the right combination for the conditions and all the players adjusted and ready

This is difficult as most teams need time and game time to adjust to conditions

In the past there would be at least a couple of warm up games to get adjusted and pick the right combination which isnt there anymore

Pakistan desperately needs to shelves these horrible 2 test series rubbish they play

They wouldve definitely won the series if this was a 3 match series
 
I think Pakistan were a bit unlucky and were the better side, and if this was a test series up to 3 or more, Pakistan would have won. This was a slip up. Still a poor result, but would be more tolerated as a "one off" if Pakistan generally were doing well. They're not, mostly been poor.

I want to see Pakistan win against strong teams at home both Tests and ODI series. And win in both Sri Lanka and Bangladesh. If Misbah can turn Pakistan into a side which regularly win in Asia I will be satisfied. Really winning abroad against good sides is a bridge to far right now, we don't have the players and we need a bit of luck to do that. Overall Misbah has not convinced me yet, but makes me laugh people pining for Mickey who is just as bad/worse. I do not care if he drew in England, if we are missing out on actual won series in Asia.
 
Whilst I agree with you, I think this series has made us question the places of a lot of players on the team, which is good since it happened early in the WTC.

1.) Abid Ali and Imran Butt are not good enough for test cricket. Abid is a liability with both the bat and whilst fielding as well. Imran is a good fielder, but it doesn't highlight his deficiencies with the bat. Both must be dropped.
2.) Azhar Ali's place in the side is questionable. He is occupying the position at which we have a lot of great domestic performers (Salahuddin, Shakeel, Ghulam). He needs to either open, or he should be dropped. A player like him should be performing in every series and every game to keep his place. It's time the same standard we put on Malik and Hafeez to perform in most occasions is put on Azhar Ali. He's a great player, a true ambassador for Pakistan but his time is almost up, so there's no point in prolonging the inevitable.
3.) Yasir Shah's inconsistency of form is very threatening to his chance of staying in the test team. Whilst Zahid Mahmood is a scattergun with an ER excess of 4, he does provide wickets which Yasir is failing to do. If it comes to it, I would not mind trying Zahid Mahmood in place of Yasir, but his international record is very good and his experience could come in handy, so I would show lenience and keep him on the bench until an opportunity arises where he is needed.
4.) Mohammad Abbas's bowling is yet again toothless with the old ball, especially if batsman step outside the crease. He has come to the point where he isn't even challenging, batsmen don't mind just defending him and buying time on the wicket, allowing them to cash in. This is not a good sign for a bowler if a batsman can just use their spell to cash in, get set, and then look to capitalize. His record is outstanding, but the quality just isn't there. I'd much rather have a Shahnawaz Dahani averaging 28-ish than Abbas, and that's something I stand by.
5.) The batting position of Fawad Alam is something we might need to look into. Whenever he scores a hundred, he is surrounded with the tail and unable to capitalize on the situation. I think that if we get rid of Azhar, he has to become our #3 batsman to accommodate someone like Saud in the middle-order who is good against spin and can provide a decent bowling option too.
6.) Our squad selection is atrocious, we need to drop the excess baggage for good domestic players to increase the competition for spots. Bring in some good domestic pacers and a few good batsmen, and you will have a team that can adapt as it goes along, gradually bringing in players who are needed as they are part of the dressing room.

Our squad of 19 moving forward should be:

Babar Azam (c), Mohammad Rizwan (wk), Hasan Ali, Shaheen Shah Afridi, Nauman Ali, Fawad Alam, Usman Salahuddin, Imam-ul-Haq, Saud Shakeel, Kamran Ghulam, Shahnawaz Dahani, Irfanullah Shah, Mohammad Nawaz, Faheem Ashraf, Zahid Mahmood, Rohail Nazir, Azhar Ali, Zafar Gohar, Naseem Shah.

Sure, there's quite a few inexperienced players but they are players who have performed.

I just want to respond to some of your points made, as always well done on the concise points you've made.

1) Abid i can agree must go and so won't speak any further on this.

Imran Butt whether we like it or not he has a desired trait in the team which is catching ability although this sounds basic it's an art that nobody in the Pakistan team currently possesses as the old saying goes catches win matches and yes i understand that he's not done anything other than the 91 versus Zim and 37 vs WI. However, i did see something in that 37 he took his chances, played some lovely strokes at times and when he plays with freedom he's at his best.

2) Azhar's place was always questionable but at the end of the day he's your most experienced player and he's had a decent year with the bat averaging 42 so it would be unfair to drop him. The chance to drop him has been missed when he had 12 innings in a row with no 50 or 100 to his name. A competent selector would've dropped him after the 6th/7th failed innings but no we had Misbah at the time.

3) I was in an active discussion about Yasir and just feel he's passed his prime and at this point i will go with any other leggie other than him or give Sajid Khan more chances to see how he does.

4) I think given Abbas's County stint it was hard to ignore him and given that WI is a Dukes ball nation, it was a no brainer picking him but yes i feel at times he was lucky and the wickets he got were of already struggling batsmen or newbies in Bonner/Mayers/DeSilva.

5) I am a big believer of don't break an already winning formula, I've followed Fawad for a while and given his success whether it be in QeA or intl cricket he's a no. 5 batsman so just leave him there given how he's averaged this year (ave- 51). Anybody who could change position is perhaps Rizwan and maybe him opening could be a way to go and then that opens the door for Saud at 6.

6) I can somewhat agree and disagree on selection, however as far as our test cricket is concerned it's going in the right direction.

- Middle order is set in stone
- Good spinner in Numan
- Allrounder in Faheem
- Pacers in Hassan and Shaheen

The only changes that are sought in our current test playing XI are maybe one/both of the openers being dropped other than that don't go change happy, too many changes can not always be a good thing and can disturb the momentum of a team.
 
Even thought he’s right about Misbah, the repetition is amusing haha

Its just that its the same post every.single.thread :))

Though I am glad to see everyone is seeing what a big fraud Misbah is. Knowing our luck he will end up as PCB chairman one day
 
West Indies have top 5 bowling line up at home, their bowlers at home are extremely lethal. Pakistan did well there.
 
You have to be delusional to think it's a failure. Drawing a series abroad against a somewhat decent test side, which is WI is, is a very good achievement.

Pakistan played great cricket, bowled extremely well especially SSA. Took great catches at slip. With all due respect, Pakistan isn't the best test team right now that this would be considered a failure.
 
I just want to respond to some of your points made, as always well done on the concise points you've made.

1) Abid i can agree must go and so won't speak any further on this.

Imran Butt whether we like it or not he has a desired trait in the team which is catching ability although this sounds basic it's an art that nobody in the Pakistan team currently possesses as the old saying goes catches win matches and yes i understand that he's not done anything other than the 91 versus Zim and 37 vs WI. However, i did see something in that 37 he took his chances, played some lovely strokes at times and when he plays with freedom he's at his best.

2) Azhar's place was always questionable but at the end of the day he's your most experienced player and he's had a decent year with the bat averaging 42 so it would be unfair to drop him. The chance to drop him has been missed when he had 12 innings in a row with no 50 or 100 to his name. A competent selector would've dropped him after the 6th/7th failed innings but no we had Misbah at the time.

3) I was in an active discussion about Yasir and just feel he's passed his prime and at this point i will go with any other leggie other than him or give Sajid Khan more chances to see how he does.

4) I think given Abbas's County stint it was hard to ignore him and given that WI is a Dukes ball nation, it was a no brainer picking him but yes i feel at times he was lucky and the wickets he got were of already struggling batsmen or newbies in Bonner/Mayers/DeSilva.

5) I am a big believer of don't break an already winning formula, I've followed Fawad for a while and given his success whether it be in QeA or intl cricket he's a no. 5 batsman so just leave him there given how he's averaged this year (ave- 51). Anybody who could change position is perhaps Rizwan and maybe him opening could be a way to go and then that opens the door for Saud at 6.

6) I can somewhat agree and disagree on selection, however as far as our test cricket is concerned it's going in the right direction.

- Middle order is set in stone
- Good spinner in Numan
- Allrounder in Faheem
- Pacers in Hassan and Shaheen

The only changes that are sought in our current test playing XI are maybe one/both of the openers being dropped other than that don't go change happy, too many changes can not always be a good thing and can disturb the momentum of a team.

The issue is that you want a team that has different players performing to win you games. Granted, you won't always get all your players performing at once, but if you're in a situation that a few players are never performing, it's time to look elsewhere.

Imran Butt can easily be a substitute fielder, but I would give him one more series to make his mark. Abid has to go though, no debating that.

I'd either replace Abid with Imam or Salahuddin.

For me, I think Fawad has the game to become our #3 batsman, because batting at #5 won't get him those fat hundreds which we want to see. At the moment, it's fine, but if we replace Azhar and push Babar up at #3, then I think Fawad ought to be our #4 batsman.
 
The issue is that you want a team that has different players performing to win you games. Granted, you won't always get all your players performing at once, but if you're in a situation that a few players are never performing, it's time to look elsewhere.

Imran Butt can easily be a substitute fielder, but I would give him one more series to make his mark. Abid has to go though, no debating that.

I'd either replace Abid with Imam or Salahuddin.

For me, I think Fawad has the game to become our #3 batsman, because batting at #5 won't get him those fat hundreds which we want to see. At the moment, it's fine, but if we replace Azhar and push Babar up at #3, then I think Fawad ought to be our #4 batsman.

I mean i can understand that players are not always going to perform and a collection of failures should be addressed as a concern which let's face it for tests it's our opening. I mean there's only so many times openers can fail and then when the middle order fails we shouldn't be blaming them for what the openers didn't do in the first place which is see out the new ball.

In regards to Imran i don't know whether you could or couldn't play him as a specialist sub and wonder if that might be against the spirit of the game. I agree just give him one more series but my hopes for him performing with the bat against a stronger bowling attack are pretty low.

Very much agreed no. 4 might be good for Fawad and heck he and Babar more or less played as openers in this game otherwise i'm tempted to leave Fawad at no. 5 where he can still form a partnership with the likes of Rizwan/Faheem/Hassan Ali etc. We have a long batting line-up MashAllah and our tail is pretty handy as well.

Just on the point of Usman Salhuddin i wouldn't be upset if he doesn't get picked as a player his average is great but the SR for the last 2 seasons of QeA has been around 41 which isn't acceptable in my view, but hey ho let's see if he has a change in form coming in as an opener.
 
I mean i can understand that players are not always going to perform and a collection of failures should be addressed as a concern which let's face it for tests it's our opening. I mean there's only so many times openers can fail and then when the middle order fails we shouldn't be blaming them for what the openers didn't do in the first place which is see out the new ball.

In regards to Imran i don't know whether you could or couldn't play him as a specialist sub and wonder if that might be against the spirit of the game. I agree just give him one more series but my hopes for him performing with the bat against a stronger bowling attack are pretty low.

Very much agreed no. 4 might be good for Fawad and heck he and Babar more or less played as openers in this game otherwise i'm tempted to leave Fawad at no. 5 where he can still form a partnership with the likes of Rizwan/Faheem/Hassan Ali etc. We have a long batting line-up MashAllah and our tail is pretty handy as well.

Just on the point of Usman Salhuddin i wouldn't be upset if he doesn't get picked as a player his average is great but the SR for the last 2 seasons of QeA has been around 41 which isn't acceptable in my view, but hey ho let's see if he has a change in form coming in as an opener.

His approach to batting where he gets set and looks to rotate strike is something our team needs.

Even if you bring Imam-ul-Haq into the team, he will also bat quite slowly, so you need to make a tradeoff between whether or not you want a stable opening stand at the cost of a slow run rate, or if you would want a quick start but be more likely to lose early wickets.

I would like Babar to stop looking towards Virat Kohli and rather try and emulate Kane Williamson in swinging conditions, playing with soft hands inside the line of the body. Williamson often comes out and negotiates the new ball quite well, and it's something Babar should learn how to do. Kohli will try to attack the ball, but he has the experience to know when to do that. Babar should be more considerate of his wicket, and should put a price on the shots he plays outside the off-stump.
 
His approach to batting where he gets set and looks to rotate strike is something our team needs.

Even if you bring Imam-ul-Haq into the team, he will also bat quite slowly, so you need to make a tradeoff between whether or not you want a stable opening stand at the cost of a slow run rate, or if you would want a quick start but be more likely to lose early wickets.

I would like Babar to stop looking towards Virat Kohli and rather try and emulate Kane Williamson in swinging conditions, playing with soft hands inside the line of the body. Williamson often comes out and negotiates the new ball quite well, and it's something Babar should learn how to do. Kohli will try to attack the ball, but he has the experience to know when to do that. Babar should be more considerate of his wicket, and should put a price on the shots he plays outside the off-stump.

We'll see what King Imran brings to the party lol.

In terms of Imam he needs to work on his ODI game which he's been quite poor in i.e. not utilising the powerplay to the fullest potential.

Yes, these are things Babar can work on but i loved his captaincy last game he was good but at times he needs to think out of the box i.e. back your spinners to deliver even during a crunch game.
 
They barely lost the 1st match...

Obviously, it's not a failure. Pakistan is not some top calibre team to look down upon WI. They are pretty close talent wise tbh. WI bowling attack is pretty good, especially at home. The pitch was also a pretty difficult one and most of the players struggled to score.

It would have been great to get a 2-0 and I reckon Pakistan will regret not capitalizing on the last session in the 1st match but it's certainly not a failure by any means.
 
Whilst I agree with you, I think this series has made us question the places of a lot of players on the team, which is good since it happened early in the WTC.

1.) Abid Ali and Imran Butt are not good enough for test cricket. Abid is a liability with both the bat and whilst fielding as well. Imran is a good fielder, but it doesn't highlight his deficiencies with the bat. Both must be dropped.
2.) Azhar Ali's place in the side is questionable. He is occupying the position at which we have a lot of great domestic performers (Salahuddin, Shakeel, Ghulam). He needs to either open, or he should be dropped. A player like him should be performing in every series and every game to keep his place. It's time the same standard we put on Malik and Hafeez to perform in most occasions is put on Azhar Ali. He's a great player, a true ambassador for Pakistan but his time is almost up, so there's no point in prolonging the inevitable.
3.) Yasir Shah's inconsistency of form is very threatening to his chance of staying in the test team. Whilst Zahid Mahmood is a scattergun with an ER excess of 4, he does provide wickets which Yasir is failing to do. If it comes to it, I would not mind trying Zahid Mahmood in place of Yasir, but his international record is very good and his experience could come in handy, so I would show lenience and keep him on the bench until an opportunity arises where he is needed.
4.) Mohammad Abbas's bowling is yet again toothless with the old ball, especially if batsman step outside the crease. He has come to the point where he isn't even challenging, batsmen don't mind just defending him and buying time on the wicket, allowing them to cash in. This is not a good sign for a bowler if a batsman can just use their spell to cash in, get set, and then look to capitalize. His record is outstanding, but the quality just isn't there. I'd much rather have a Shahnawaz Dahani averaging 28-ish than Abbas, and that's something I stand by.
5.) The batting position of Fawad Alam is something we might need to look into. Whenever he scores a hundred, he is surrounded with the tail and unable to capitalize on the situation. I think that if we get rid of Azhar, he has to become our #3 batsman to accommodate someone like Saud in the middle-order who is good against spin and can provide a decent bowling option too.
6.) Our squad selection is atrocious, we need to drop the excess baggage for good domestic players to increase the competition for spots. Bring in some good domestic pacers and a few good batsmen, and you will have a team that can adapt as it goes along, gradually bringing in players who are needed as they are part of the dressing room.

Our squad of 19 moving forward should be:

Babar Azam (c), Mohammad Rizwan (wk), Hasan Ali, Shaheen Shah Afridi, Nauman Ali, Fawad Alam, Usman Salahuddin, Imam-ul-Haq, Saud Shakeel, Kamran Ghulam, Shahnawaz Dahani, Irfanullah Shah, Mohammad Nawaz, Faheem Ashraf, Zahid Mahmood, Rohail Nazir, Azhar Ali, Zafar Gohar, Naseem Shah.

Sure, there's quite a few inexperienced players but they are players who have performed.

Zahid Mahmood provides wickets? Seems like news to me. He is currently sporting an extemely terrible 36.76 average in FC on top of being very leaky. If that is the best replacement we could come up with for Yasir, it explains why Yasir hasn't been replaced.

Shadab has a much better track record in FC (25.77 AVG) than he does along with being a decent batsmen and an elite fielder. I'd much rather see Pakistan just invest in a much younger and better player than a mediocre one like Zahid.
 
They barely lost the 1st match...

Obviously, it's not a failure. Pakistan is not some top calibre team to look down upon WI. They are pretty close talent wise tbh. WI bowling attack is pretty good, especially at home. The pitch was also a pretty difficult one and most of the players struggled to score.

It would have been great to get a 2-0 and I reckon Pakistan will regret not capitalizing on the last session in the 1st match but it's certainly not a failure by any means.

It's more disappointment than looking down on WI, Pakistan was in good positions to win the first test match, but including serial flop Yasir Shah probably cost victory there. Batting has been poor from both teams so having a duff bowler was probably the difference between winning and losing.
 
Zahid Mahmood provides wickets? Seems like news to me. He is currently sporting an extemely terrible 36.76 average in FC on top of being very leaky. If that is the best replacement we could come up with for Yasir, it explains why Yasir hasn't been replaced.

Shadab has a much better track record in FC (25.77 AVG) than he does along with being a decent batsmen and an elite fielder. I'd much rather see Pakistan just invest in a much younger and better player than a mediocre one like Zahid.

Shadab hasn't played FC Cricket in a few years now, so his performances aren't reliable in my eyes.

His test record has nothing to write home about either.

He needs to go back to performing in FC cricket before he can be picked.
 
An abject failure the whole team should be punished, cut their pay or something to for such unprofessionalism. I mean the management at least and whoever keeps picking Abbas and Abid Ali
 
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Absolute shameful and disgrace of a result. Heads need to roll!
 
given the quality of cricket pakistan plays, 1-1 is a kind of achievement for them....pakistani fans should be happy
 
given the quality of cricket pakistan plays, 1-1 is a kind of achievement for them....pakistani fans should be happy

As a test team i think we are quite good and that's currently our strongest format going.

In terms of it being 1-1 can't say you are happy and can't say you are sad. The first was a test of nerves and we unfortunately failed.
 
Shadab hasn't played FC Cricket in a few years now, so his performances aren't reliable in my eyes.

His test record has nothing to write home about either.

He needs to go back to performing in FC cricket before he can be picked.

I am not saying he should be picked but what has Zahid done other than being a terrible domestic bowler in FC? T20 performances don't equal Test performances.

At the very least, Shadab is young, has potential and shown to more capable than a very old Zahid ever will.

More than anything, this simply shows why Yasir hasn't been replaced. Pakistan spin bowlers domestically are quite bad, especially in terms of leg spinners.
 
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