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Is an India Pakistan series on the cards?

Rana said:
Because we didn’t create easy dust bowls like India does
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Your PCB Chairman had to defend creating dead pitches when Australia toured you :)))

And what about the pitches in Australia? We won our last 2 series there? The last time you managed to draw a Test match there was when Miandad was still playing :)))
 
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Rana said:
Indian fans laughing at the reality of their home dominance
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No, I’m laughing at your comment of Pakistan not creating dust bowls at home like India. The pitches during Australia’s last tour to Pakistan were so horribly dead that the PCB Chairman had to come out and defend it. And despite those dead pitches, Pakistan lost that series.
 
Rana said:
Indian fans laughing at the reality of their home dominance
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Here, read it -

https://sportstar.thehindu.com/cricket/pcb-chairman-ramiz-raja-defends-preparing-lifeless-pitch-to-thwart-australia/article38452677.ece/amp/
 
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Lahore: With nearly three months to go for the most-awaited T20I game of the year between India and Pakistan at the MCG, ex-cricketer Shoaib Akhtar has made a massive prediction. For the match that is to be played on October 23, Akhtar feels Rohit Sharma-led India would be favourites. Akhtar said it will not be easy to beat India and reckoned they would come better prepared this time.Also Read - Rohit Sharma Eyes T20 World Cup Glory, Says Will Not Sit on Our Laurels

“India will come up with proper planning this time around. It will not be easy for Pakistan to beat India in T20 WC this time,” Akhtar was quoted as saying by Cricket Pakistan. Also Read - IND vs ENG: India Look To Carry T20 Template Into ODIs

Akhtar also had an advise for the Pakistani bowlers. Also Read - IND vs ENG: Rohit Sharma Hails Ravindra Jadeja For Playing Brilliant Knock Under Pressure

“Predicting match results now is quite difficult but Pakistan should bowl second as [the] pitch in Melbourne offers bounce to fast bowlers,” he added.

Afridi also feels there is going to be a full house at the MCG for the match.

“I believe the crowd will be bigger this time. Around 150,000 fans will watch the match line in Melbourne. Out of which, 70,000 will be Indian supporters,” he concluded.

After the humiliating 10-wicket loss against Pakistan last year in Dubai, India would like to bounce back and avenge that loss as well.

Virat Kohli will not be leading the side, Rohit Sharma would be the captain and given the form India is in – they would most certainly start as contenders. Rohit and Co. recently beat England 2-1 in a three-match T20I series in the UK. India will now play West Indies and that would keep them in good stead ahead of the marquee event.

https://www.india.com/sports/india-...redicts-rohit-sharma-and-co-will-win-5506049/
 
Wasim Khan in an recent interview:

“Cricket boards of both Pakistan and India have good working relationships. The real issue is with the governments of both countries. Even when I was taking care of PCB’s affairs, I had very good relations with colleagues from BCCI. But these matters are controlled from outside the cricket boards by the respective governments"
 
MenInG said:
Even a one-off Test....
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I can't believe it's been 15 years since there was a Test series between us. I desperately wanted Sachin to play another Test series against Pakistan. Doesn't matter, I'm the first person to approve a Test series between both the countries now. In fact I'd pay good money for it to happen.
 
Only way now for an India-Pakistan bilateral series to happen is if ICC/BCCI make the World Test championship a complete ICC tournament (the whole cycle) where it's mandatory for everyone to play everyone.

I'm really surprised they still haven't made use of "we can play Pakistan if it's an ICC tournament" loophole.
 
Mesozoic said:
Only way now for an India-Pakistan bilateral series to happen is if ICC/BCCI make the World Test championship a complete ICC tournament (the whole cycle) where it's mandatory for everyone to play everyone.

I'm really surprised they still haven't made use of "we can play Pakistan if it's an ICC tournament" loophole.
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It will happen in a WTC final.
 
MenInG said:
Even a one-off Test....
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One way it can happen is if ACC creates an Asia Cup of Tests where top four Asian test playing teams play each other once, maybe within two years, and the top two play a final. They can generate good money out of it.

And if India still does not follow through with the Pakistan game, they may be asked to forfeit the points as has been happening in women cricket.
 
Mesozoic said:
Only way now for an India-Pakistan bilateral series to happen is if ICC/BCCI make the World Test championship a complete ICC tournament (the whole cycle) where it's mandatory for everyone to play everyone.

I'm really surprised they still haven't made use of "we can play Pakistan if it's an ICC tournament" loophole.
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India has been forfeiting points against Pakistan in women championships.

BCCI clearly does not want to make use of such "loopholes". Instead, according to several articles, BCCI actually ensured that India Pakistan bilaterals are not made mandatory in the World Test championship
 
ChipShot said:
India has been forfeiting points against Pakistan in women championships.

BCCI clearly does not want to make use of such "loopholes". Instead, according to several articles, BCCI actually ensured that India Pakistan bilaterals are not made mandatory in the World Test championship
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Where has India forfeited points?

Last I remember, the ICC declared a tie between India-Pakistan to be a draw even though it was India who didn’t want to play and Pakistan were ready to play
 
India won’t be playing Pakistan in any bilateral series in the 2023-2027 cycle. In the Future Tours Programme (FTP) sent to all state associations, the board has kept the columns for games against Pakistan ‘blank’.

Besides, multi-nation tournaments, the Indian men’s team will play 38 Tests (20 home and 18 away), 42 ODIs (21 each home and away) and 61 T20Is (31 home and 30 away) in the 2023-2027 cycle.

The BCCI can’t take any decision on a bilateral series with Pakistan until it gets a nod from the Government of India.

https://indianexpress.com/article/s...akistan-bilateral-series-2023-27-ftp-8207347/
 
MenInG said:
India won’t be playing Pakistan in any bilateral series in the 2023-2027 cycle. In the Future Tours Programme (FTP) sent to all state associations, the board has kept the columns for games against Pakistan ‘blank’.

Besides, multi-nation tournaments, the Indian men’s team will play 38 Tests (20 home and 18 away), 42 ODIs (21 each home and away) and 61 T20Is (31 home and 30 away) in the 2023-2027 cycle.

The BCCI can’t take any decision on a bilateral series with Pakistan until it gets a nod from the Government of India.

https://indianexpress.com/article/s...akistan-bilateral-series-2023-27-ftp-8207347/
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Not surprised seeing how the 'Aaney Do' series turned out for India. :))
 
Shahid Afridi:

"The main problem is we don't sit together and talk. Politicians should also come together and talk like we are sitting here and talking. They have a huge responsibility"

"It would have been really nice if India had come. It would have been a step towards cricket and Pakistan for India. This is not a generation of wars and fights; we want relationships to improve. We have played against India with a lot of love and affection. I remember when we came to India, we got an outstanding response"

"If you remember the 2005 series, Harbhajan and Yuvraj used to go shopping and to restaurants, and no one used to charge them money. This is the beauty of the two nations"

"I will request Modi sahab to let cricket happen between both countries"

"What can we do if we want to befriend someone and he does not talk to us? There is no doubt that the BCCI is a very strong board, but when you are strong, you have more responsibility. You don't try to make more enemies, you need to make friends. When you make more friends, you become stronger"

"I would not say weak, but some answers came from the front (BCCI) as well".

"I still have friends in the Indian team when we meet, we discuss, the other day I met Raina and I asked for a bat, he gave me a bat"
 
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Mohammad Hafeez also on the India Pakistan cricket relations

“Our players have never faced any issue like this. As Pakistani players, we always want to continue good cricket with India. Personally, Pakistan players don’t want political pressure to affect cricket. As a Pakistani player, I have always said that India-Pakistan cricket should continue. The political differences and views should be discussed at a different stage. Stopping these two countries due to political different is not right"
 
'India and Pakistan Players Enjoy Very Cordial Relations, Time For Govt's To Think...': Former Pak Captain Calls For Resumption Of Bilateral Cricket

Former Pak Captain Calls For Resumption Of Bilateral Cricket Indian and Pakistan governments were urged to prioritize the passion for cricket shared by millions across the border. According to Khan, a bilateral series would be a sporting spectacle and a potential bridge between the two nations.

Former Pakistan cricket captain Younis Khan has reignited the debate surrounding the highly anticipated India-Pakistan cricket series. Khan believes it's high time for the governments of both nations to facilitate the resumption of bilateral cricket matches.

"Pakistani cricketers have always spoken in favour of India vs Pakistan games. We need to play more frequently, not just in ICC events, because once we start playing each other more regularly, it will also take the pressure of this game’s intensity off the players' shoulders. This match [India vs Pakistan] always produces future stars for both teams. The one who performs in this game becomes a hero at home,” he was quoted as saying by Geo News.

"It is time for the governments and cricket boards in both countries to sit together and think about resuming India-Pakistan cricket. Players from both teams enjoy very cordial relations with each other," he added.

Younis also discussed the upcoming India vs. Pakistan clash in the World Cup and stated that it is one match that is always in the balance.

"India vs Pakistan is always start as a fifty-fifty game," he remarked.

"Even though one team might look superior on paper, this match is not just about skills; it also tests your nerves. So, I believe the team that can hold their nerve better will have smooth sailing in the match," Younis concluded.

When asked if he had any advice for the current captain, the former captain also urged Babar Azam to lead by example and focus on the team’s overall performance.

"Babar Azam is a top player, and he is in good form. He must lead the team from the front. He must not only focus on his own performance but also extract the best out of his team."

"When you’re the captain, it’s not just about your own performance; you need to focus on other players’ performances as well. I would love to see Babar becoming man of the series and also winning the trophy for Pakistan,” he said

www.timesnownews.com

'India and Pakistan Players Enjoy Very Cordial Relations, Time For Govt's To Think...': Former Pak Captain Calls For Resumption Of Bilateral Cricket

Indian and Pakistan governments were urged to prioritize the passion for cricket shared by millions across the border. According to Khan, a bilateral series would be a sporting spectacle and a potential bridge between the two nations., Cricket News - Times Now
www.timesnownews.com www.timesnownews.com
 
This is not going to happen for a very long time. There is too much at stake politically to play Pakistan in a bilateral series.

Additionally BCCI has no incentive to play Pakistan bilaterally as money is no concern for them.

They only agree to play them in ICC events to make money for ICC & broadcaster. Without Ind-Pak game, the ICC events will loss making business and it will impact the smaller boards.
 
Rajdeep said:
They only agree to play them in ICC events to make money for ICC & broadcaster. Without Ind-Pak game, the ICC events will loss making business and it will impact the smaller boards.
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So bad that they don't replicate this model for bilaterals.
 
Rajdeep said:
This is not going to happen for a very long time. There is too much at stake politically to play Pakistan in a bilateral series.

Additionally BCCI has no incentive to play Pakistan bilaterally as money is no concern for them.

They only agree to play them in ICC events to make money for ICC & broadcaster. Without Ind-Pak game, the ICC events will loss making
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I don't think that the BCCI is simply obedient enough to just play these ICC events to make money for them. Obviously, they have their own stake in it because the BCCI is the biggest shareholder. So if the ICC makes money it will ultimately give a boost to the BCCI.
 
Cricket Warrior said:
I don't think that the BCCI is simply obedient enough to just play these ICC events to make money for them. Obviously, they have their own stake in it because the BCCI is the biggest shareholder. So if the ICC makes money it will ultimately give a boost to the BCCI.
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Yes, the ICC revenue will give a boost. But looking at the overall picture, it is a small percentage of BCCI revenues. So it does not affect the BCCI much. But on the other hand BCCI brings 90% of the ICC revenues. Which not only affects the ICC in a very big way, it also affects the other boards in profound and detrimental ways.

That is the reason the ICC is so timid.
 
Cricket Warrior said:
On neutral venues it can be arranged if India doesn't run off from this option too
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When will Pakistanis realise that it's not about the venue or quality of their side?

GOI doesn't want Pakistan to make dough by using the Indian market and then proceed to use that dough to fund whatever they fund against the security of our nation. Simple as that..
 
Mesozoic said:
When will Pakistanis realise that it's not about the venue or quality of their side?

GOI doesn't want Pakistan to make dough by using the Indian market and then proceed to use that dough to fund whatever they fund against the security of our nation. Simple as that..
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Can the security of your nation be rattled by the proceeds of a cricket match?

Is this an official GOI position that they fear attack from Pakistan based on gate receipts of an ODI.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Can the security of your nation be rattled by the proceeds of a cricket match?

Is this an official GOI position that they fear attack from Pakistan based on gate receipts of an ODI.
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What a lazy and redundant way of comprehending what I said!

But I guess you know what you're doing.
 
U$ofA said:
How does neutral venue change BCCI's stance?
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Ill informed is the word you're looking for.

If it was upto BCCI, they would play 2 bilateral series against Pakistan containing 4 Tests, 7 ODIs and Quadrillion T20is home and away every year to rake in the moolah.
 
There should be a complete ban on Pakistan playing against India. Currently, we're ahead in bilateral matches, but that will disappear if we continue playing them, leaving us with nothing to boast about.
 
emranabbas said:
There should be a complete ban on Pakistan playing against India. Currently, we're ahead in bilateral matches, but that will disappear if we continue playing them, leaving us with nothing to boast about.
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Gap is closing, India will soon have more wins over Pakistan in international cricket
 
rpant_gabba said:
@The Bald Eagle ?
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BCCI is a strong board that can easily influence ICC. If both sides do play bilaterals then invariably such arrangement would generate great revenue too no matter what the location. So if not for the sake of game BCCI should engage PCB for the sake of revenue as any such series would be way better than Ashes.
 
The Bald Eagle said:
BCCI is a strong board that can easily influence ICC. If both sides do play bilaterals then invariably such arrangement would generate great revenue too no matter what the location. So if not for the sake of game BCCI should engage PCB for the sake of revenue as any such series would be way better than Ashes.
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Bcci is happy with its revenue and GoI is happy with pcb revenue (or the lack there of)

Win win for BCCI and GoI
 

PCB Looking to Invite India to Participate in Bilateral T20I Series on Neutral Venue in 2025​


Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) chairman Mohsin Naqvi is likely to invite India to a T20I bilateral series at a neutral venue in 2025.

However, the board (PCB) seems adamant on not allowing matches of the Champions Trophy to be shifted outside Pakistan.

PCB sources also stated that Naqvi will invite India for a T20 series at a neutral venue during 2025, when he will meet BCCI secretary Jay Shah in the ICC annual conference to be held in Colombo, Sri Lanka on July 19-22.

“The proposal will be discussed during the meeting of Mohsin Naqvi with Jay Shah (BCCI secretary), with matches potentially scheduled during the free days of both teams after the Champions Trophy,” said the PCB source.

The discussion is going to be an important part of the annual conference. The agenda includes a possible relocation of Champions Trophy matches to a neutral venue, especially after concerns raised by the Indian government and the BCCI, which hinted that the Men-in-Blue may not be allowed to travel to Pakistan amid security and political concerns.

Pakistan has maintained that it would ensure that all matches (CT) of Indian cricket team are played in Lahore and the Indian team would stay in the same hotel throughout the series. It also stated that being in one city would make it easier to provide full proof security to visiting side.

Moreover, PCB recently announced that it had acquired a land adjacent to the Gaddafi Cricket Stadium in Lahore to construct a 5-star hotel. Sources revealed that PCB plans to construct the hotel itself and plans to complete the construction by early next year.

PCB sources stated that the newly constructed 5-star hotel would eliminate the need for teams to stay in distant hotels, thereby ending road closures for security.

Notably, PCB chief and Jay Shah are also expected to meet during the ICC annual conference in Colombo. Sources stated that Naqvi will try to persuade Shah to send the Indian team to Pakistan. However, the Indian government — not the BCCI — would make a final call.

The Indian cricket team refused to travel to Pakistan for the Asia Cup last year, which led to the matches being held in Sri Lanka.

Pakistan and India have not played any bilateral series since 2012 with the Indian government limiting the cricket encounters with Pakistan to ICC or ACC events.

www.news18.com

PCB Looking to Invite India to Participate in Bilateral T20I Series on Neutral Venue in 2025 - News18

The PCB could be looking to invite Team India to take part in a T20I series that would take place in a neutral venue.
www.news18.com www.news18.com
 
Things are getting interesting on this front..

Have heard some rumours of backdoor deals happening currently where BCCI might play a bilateral T20 series with Pakistan at a neutral venue (PCB being the hosts) in exchange for the hybrid model in the Champions Trophy.

Interesting times ahead...
 
Mesozoic said:
Things are getting interesting on this front..

Have heard some rumours of backdoor deals happening currently where BCCI might play a bilateral T20 series with Pakistan at a neutral venue (PCB being the hosts) in exchange for the hybrid model in the Champions Trophy.

Interesting times ahead...
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BCCI is giving lolipop to PCB .

If they are not going to Pakistan for to play champion trophy then no chance of bilateral series .
 
Mesozoic said:
Things are getting interesting on this front..

Have heard some rumours of backdoor deals happening currently where BCCI might play a bilateral T20 series with Pakistan at a neutral venue (PCB being the hosts) in exchange for the hybrid model in the Champions Trophy.

Interesting times ahead...
Click to expand...

What's the guarantee BCCI will actually stick to its word?
I mean Pakistan were told India would send its team for CT25 if they came to India for WC23.
 
Devadwal said:
BCCI is giving lolipop to PCB .

If they are not going to Pakistan for to play champion trophy then no chance of bilateral series .
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Going to Pakistan is off the table certainly but a one-off T20 series in UAE is definitely on the cards if ICC/BCCI thinks that's required to keep PCB happy somewhat.

But yeah it's 50-50 as of now and we'll never know for sure until it's official.
 
PCB should keep its card close, if a T20 series is agreed then it should be played before CT, so that BCCI doesn't back tracks, if not get amount equal to series profit in advance and make sure the check is not bogus, because with BCCi anything is possible
 
Kianig89 said:
PCB should keep its card close, if a T20 series is agreed then it should be played before CT, so that BCCI doesn't back tracks, if not get amount equal to series profit in advance and make sure the check is not bogus, because with BCCi anything is possible
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Does PCB actually have any cards?

Pretty sad state of affairs for PCB if peanuts from a t20 series is all it takes to change their principled stance.

are things that bad in Pakistan and PCB?

Is that acceptable to Pak fans?
 
rpant_gabba said:
Does PCB actually have any cards?

Pretty sad state of affairs for PCB if peanuts from a t20 series is all it takes to change their principled stance.

are things that bad in Pakistan and PCB?

Is that acceptable to Pak fans?
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Look before you leap

PCB should be practical no point harping along without purpose, hybrid model seems the likely scenario so why not milk BCCI for it
 
It's going to be a hybrid model and BCCI aren't going to play any bilateral series without government approval which is unlikely.

Only question in my mind is if there will be a assured India Pakistan match in the group stages of CT 25
 
Kianig89 said:
Look before you leap

PCB should be practical no point harping along without purpose, hybrid model seems the likely scenario so why not milk BCCI for it
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Hasn't pak been trying to do that for 10+ years and failed miserably?

what is your evaluation of the results from that effort?
 
oatmeal said:
It's going to be a hybrid model and BCCI aren't going to play any bilateral series without government approval which is unlikely.

Only question in my mind is if there will be a assured India Pakistan match in the group stages of CT 25
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100% they both will be in a some group after all basic motive of ICC is to earn $$$
 
Pakistan cricket is a disaster - our management and players have no spine, no guts

Perfect time for India to completely destroy any dignity left...

Pathetic being a Pakistan cricket supporter.. Bunch of jokers..
 
rpant_gabba said:
Did you just contradict your own post?

LMAO.
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Did you understand the meaning of practical, when opportunity comes grab it, with CT and all the tantrums of BCCI , PCB should look to get as much benefit as they can , where is the contradiction
 
As long as communal dirtbags like modi are around, alas we will not get to watch India mop the floor with Pakistan anytime soon.
 
Kianig89 said:
Did you understand the meaning of practical, when opportunity comes grab it, with CT and all the tantrums of BCCI , PCB should look to get as much benefit as they can , where is the contradiction
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you replied to your own post with a tangent about PSL.

BCCI has been no mood for any compromise with PCB for long time. They learned thelr lesson from 2014 MOU.

BCCI knows PCB is broke and will fold if its ICC revenue is compromised. Exihibit WC23 tanrums by Wasim Khan/Najam/Zaka
 
Mesozoic said:
Things are getting interesting on this front..

Have heard some rumours of backdoor deals happening currently where BCCI might play a bilateral T20 series with Pakistan at a neutral venue (PCB being the hosts) in exchange for the hybrid model in the Champions Trophy.

Interesting times ahead...
Click to expand...

This sounds interesting and could be a master stroke by PCB. A win - win for all.

This will save us from touring Pakistan which is against our principles but at the same time we could be compensating PCB by playing them a 3 T20i series in UAE at convenient time after the Champions Trophy.
 
Bhaijaan said:
This sounds interesting and could be a master stroke by PCB. A win - win for all.

This will save us from touring Pakistan which is against our principles but at the same time we could be compensating PCB by playing them a 3 T20i series in UAE at convenient time after the Champions Trophy.
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bhaijaan hope that is sarcasm.
 
The Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) on Monday made it clear that it has made no proposal to play an offshore T20I series against India, and its current focus is on the smooth conduct of the Champions Trophy

There have been talks about PCB Chairman Mohsin Naqvi holding discussions with the BCCI officials on the possibility of a T20I series at an offshore venue, likely in either England or Australia.

“There is no such proposal on the table or under consideration because right now the biggeAst challenge for us is to organise the Champions Trophy in a befitting manner and we also have a packed international schedule,” a highly reliable source said.

The source said the PCB’s two main targets at the ICC meetings in Colombo was to get the budget approved for the Champions Trophy and then to get assurances from the ICC and BCCI that India would send their team to play in Pakistan in the showpiece.

“That is our main agenda right now. So, there is no question of contemplating any bilateral venture with India,” the source added.

India have suspended bilateral series with Pakistan since 2012 after Pakistan visited the country for a short white ball series.

Both the countries have not played any Test series since Pakistan’s tour to India in 2007.

Even the participation of India in the Champions Trophy remains on tenterhooks with speculations doing rounds about Men In Blue wanting to play their matches outside Pakistan.

Source: PTI
 
The general idea behind not playing bilateral series is to financially pressurize ( or rather encourage) Pakistan to act against LeT and other organizations that pump unwanted entities into India causing damage to life and property.
No one is saying PCB supports them in any way. But that's how politics works.
Pinch the other party where it hurts them to do some action in other area where no leverage exists.

PCB should request the Pakistan Govt to clear these hurdles which will enable them to host bilateral and earn $$$ in millions.
Many complain why others sports is being played. Fact is if India boycotts other sports not 1% of revenue as compared to cricket is generated and so in other sports so it will not be leverage at all.

As for playing Pakistan in ICC tournaments, well why pressurize ICC , as they are ones that organize tournaments.
Besides points are at stake and with current record between the two in ICC tournaments, it'll be letting go of easy 2 points.

BCCI would love to make more $$$$ than what it makes today but BCCI is under Indian govt jurisdiction and they will need to follow what is being ordered in that regard. If tomorrow, roles are reversed and PCB is told by Pakistan govt not to play any bilateral series with BCCI, will PCB go against that mandate? I would assume "No". In fact if I remember right, in 2009 PCB refused to give NOC to Pakistan players to play in IPL( citing security reasons) because they were asked to do so by Pakistan govt.
 
A series is definitely on the card ... just with Guns and Tanks. Different type of series. With bat and ball, not for a long long time.

World would be a better place if these two actually went to war with bat and ball on the field, instead of the guns and tanks.
 
If a serues happens it will be the biggest spectator in the history of sport!

A smart marketer or promoter could make it happen. Come on Eddie Hearn!

India v Pakistan in Saudi Arabia.

Bangladesh V Sri Lanka undercard.
 
If I was Mohsin Naqvi - I would call Jai Shah and just tell him to get lost permanently
 
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DeadlyVenom said:
If a serues happens it will be the biggest spectator in the history of sport!

A smart marketer or promoter could make it happen. Come on Eddie Hearn!

India v Pakistan in Saudi Arabia.

Bangladesh V Sri Lanka undercard.
Click to expand...

You did Bangla bois dirty there.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
A full series in UAE is part of Trump's proposal for ceasefire.
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Trump is a moron. No wonder USA is consistently going down the drain. In 2025 their economy only increased by 0.1% and hasn't moved at all.

Assuming trump keeps running things, they'll eventually start declining although will probably still remain the most powerful nation in the world.

But he's a clown and no wonder USA gets memed daily nowadays.
 
mominsaigol said:
Trump is a moron. No wonder USA is consistently going down the drain. In 2025 their economy only increased by 0.1% and hasn't moved at all.

Assuming trump keeps running things, they'll eventually start declining although will probably still remain the most powerful nation in the world.

But he's a clown and no wonder USA gets memed daily nowadays.
Click to expand...
how dare you make fun of our dear leader! his orange highness is a unfettered genius whose methods are beyond your comprehension.

#MAGA
 
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