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Is Donald Trump right in calling the US 2020 Election a fraud?

Is Donald Trump right in calling the US 2020 Election a fraud?

  • Yes, he is totally justified

    Votes: 5 17.9%

  • No, he should man-up and accept defeat graciously

    Votes: 23 82.1%
  • Total voters
    28
Savak said:
A thorough audit with regards to the existence, completeness, accuracy, legality, cut off of all mailed in ballot votes should satisfy both parties
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That doesn’t make any sense. You can’t do a audit just because someone is throwing a tantrum. The accusations have to be backed up by evidence first.

An audit of all mailed in ballots would cost millions if not billions.
 
Gayle_Force said:
That doesn’t make any sense. You can’t do a audit just because someone is throwing a tantrum. The accusations have to be backed up by evidence first.

An audit of all mailed in ballots would cost millions if not billions.
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This is the US Presidential Election, there is a lot at stake here. Let's see if the republicans can submit sufficient proof to the Supreme Court
 
Savak said:
This is the US Presidential Election, there is a lot at stake here. Let's see if the republicans can submit sufficient proof to the Supreme Court
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Yea but what precedent does it set? If this concession is made for Trump than every runner up will be able to demand it going forward.

Let’s see if Supreme Court even takes this up.
 
Savak said:
Plenty of Trump supporters also believe in this pandemic, doesn't justify the 95% of votes in favour of Biden
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It ain't plenty , also that 95% number is pulled outta thing air .Again , Trump discouraged his people to vote mail in , he sowed doubt about mail ins even months before election day . In PA the republican state legislature didnt let them count mail ins until election day even though they had them on hand. Again , teh electoral system in the US in complex af and the demographics played a HUGE role these elections.
 
Lurker_Ind said:
I voted by mail and the only info I provided is my name and address. No SSN is needed to uniquely identify each vote. That means I can request 3 or 4 mail-in votes mailed to me and then vote once and write some other names and give some shelter or home address. Government do not know how many people live at a specific address at a specific time. Without SSN, this is very hard to track who is voting to cross verify it against.

I am not supporting Trump on this issue. I want Trump to accept the verdict and respect peoples choice and go away in a dignified manner. But I do have some doubts about mail-in votes.
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Name your state and i'll show you how its not what you think it is .Unless you are just making stuff up .
 
Trump also said millions of illegals voted in 2016 hence how he lost the popular vote. Commissioned an investigation into it and within a few months was disbanded because they couldn't find anything.

Make what you will out of it.
 
Honestly. Comparing 2016 election process with 2020. Covid 19 thus mail-in ballots made 2020 an unprecedented election. There's been nothing like it in the history of the USA.

Comparing 2016 election process and mechanics with 2020 is pointless.
 
The Republicans still standing by Trump

When votes were still being counted, and Trump's lead was narrowing, a number of Republicans came out in support of the president and his allegations - presented without any evidence - of ballot irregularities.

Since Biden was declared the winner, however, most of these supporters have been conspicuously silent.

Just a few have continued to voice their support for Trump. One is Marco Rubio, who said the issue of
 
James said:
I do think it’s a bit of a generalisation on the basis of the postal voting (towards all concerned) to say that only Democratic voters are Covid-conscious and risk-averse, whereas all Republican voters are apparently now being viewed as a band of no-mask conspiracy-theorising crackpot loons who were determined to march on the polling stations. Sort of implies a slightly sneering and snooty attitude towards Republican voters, which I can’t see any positives coming from.
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And yet, look what happened. Dem voters outnumbered GOP voters in the postal ballots by four or five to one. Of course there is a correlation with urban centres too, where risk of transmission is higher - the big cities are majority Democrat.
 
More and more sources reporting now that Trump will concede the election. Hopefully this is credible news. Despite his impressive raw number of votes, he has been outperformed by Biden and has lost comprehensively. Trump should concede.
 
They need to vote by post 5 days ago due to Covid but suddenly Pandemic is over. If hypocricy is an art, then liberals are champions of it.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The crowd outside the White House celebrating Joe Biden’s projected victory is blaring YMCA — the song President Trump closed out his latest rallies with. <a href="https://t.co/UkrsBq8l5M">pic.twitter.com/UkrsBq8l5M</a></p>— Kaitlan Collins (@kaitlancollins) <a href="https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1325153181827911680?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 7, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
MenInG said:
The Republicans still standing by Trump
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Well, he is voted out but they still need support going forward from the voters he brought under the red roof. They can mention some of his political successes and play down the racism, normalisation of lying, and undermining faith in the institutions.
 
Lol

I have never seen a man become so utterly irrelevant in the last 24 hours. It's like what he did, what he said, will say or do just doesn't matter anymore. He is ancient history. For a man which such a huge ego, this must sting badly
 
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And on and on....

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Since when does the Lamestream Media call who our next president will be? We have all learned a lot in the last two weeks!</p>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1325511603157159942?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 8, 2020</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
George W. Bush's former chief White House ethics lawyer Richard Painter says "most Republicans realise that this election is over", and that he has heard Donald Trump is being "egged on in this behaviour by his two sons"
 
MenInG said:
And on and on....
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He is pathologically unable to accept that he has been beaten. He cannot conceive that losing is possible for him - ergo somebody must have cheated.

Sadly a lot of his followers will believe the same. This is a signifier for personality cults - the great leader cannot fail, so it must be someone else who failed to believe in great leader - see also Corbyn who only failed to become PM because he was backstabbed, according to cult thinking.
 
Robert said:
He is pathologically unable to accept that he has been beaten. He cannot conceive that losing is possible for him - ergo somebody must have cheated.

Sadly a lot of his followers will believe the same. This is a signifier for personality cults - the great leader cannot fail, so it must be someone else who failed to believe in great leader - see also Corbyn who only failed to become PM because he was backstabbed, according to cult thinking.
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Many Corbynites still genuinely believe that the December 2019 general election in the UK was rigged via postal voting. Sounds quite familiar this week!
 
Well, atleast Remainers supporting Biden now understand how Brexiteers felt when Remainers were unable to accept a democratic outcome for 4 years. Blamed countless institutions such as Parliamentary and Judciary.

Anyway, Trump isn't going anywhere without a fight. By law every candidate is entitled to ask for a recount. This is the law in USA.

Today is the day Trump and lawyers file their appeals.

We could be in for a long while; the 12th ammendment can come into play; plus there is nothing in the constituion that says you can kick out a President if he fails to concede.

This is going to get messy!
 
James said:
Many Corbynites still genuinely believe that the December 2019 general election in the UK was rigged via postal voting. Sounds quite familiar this week!
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Wow, I hadn’t heard that.
 
Lurker_Ind said:
It was a mistake on my part. Friends who have family and relatives on H1B voted Biden. H1B’s obviously cannot vote.
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You still have not told me which state you voted for and you can request duplicate ballots and vote multiple times.
 
Robert said:
He is pathologically unable to accept that he has been beaten. He cannot conceive that losing is possible for him - ergo somebody must have cheated.

Sadly a lot of his followers will believe the same. This is a signifier for personality cults - the great leader cannot fail, so it must be someone else who failed to believe in great leader - see also Corbyn who only failed to become PM because he was backstabbed, according to cult thinking.
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combination of old age, a self aggrandizement, consequence of surrounding oneself with yes men and lackeys.

It is sad that he rose on the basis of his demagoguery, and yet his current situation is also a result of demagoguery of his own sons and other confidants who are egging him on. It is pathetic.
His pettiness has stooped to lows nobody would have imagined existed.
 
He's probably afraid of the impending lawsuits waiting for him in NY once he becomes a normal citizen.
 
US President Donald Trump's spokeswoman has vowed the legal battle to contest Joe Biden's White House election victory is only just beginning.

"This election is not over," White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany told a news conference. "Far from it."

She made a flurry of allegations of election corruption, although no evidence of systemic fraud that might have influenced the result has emerged.

Mr Trump, a Republican, has not conceded the race.
 
A smooth transition of power in the US is looking less likely with Donald Trump blocking co-operation with Joe Biden's team and the US attorney general authorising investigations into allegations of electoral fraud.

The Electoral College is scheduled to formally confirm Mr Biden's victory on 14 December with the Democrat being sworn into office in late January.

However, few Republicans have acknowledged the victory and some, including Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell, have rallied behind Mr Trump's efforts to fight the election results.

On Monday, Mr Barr authorised the Justice Department to investigate "substantial" allegations of voter irregularities and election fraud, though no widespread instances of that type of trouble exist.

In a memo to US lawyers, obtained by The Associated Press, Mr Barr wrote that investigations "may be conducted if there are clear and apparently-credible allegations of irregularities that, if true, could potentially impact the outcome of a federal election in an individual state".

Election officials from both political parties have publicly stated that voting went well. International observers also confirmed there were no serious irregularities.

States have until 8 December to resolve election disputes, including recounts and court contests over the results.

Legal challenges have been dismissed in battleground states like Georgia and Wisconsin.

On Monday night, the Justice Department's top prosecutor for election crimes, Richard Pilger, said he would step down from that post in response to the attorney general's memo, according to an email he sent to colleagues and obtained by the AP.

Biden campaign lawyer Bob Bauer said Mr Barr's memorandum authorising investigations "will only fuel the 'specious, speculative, fanciful or far-fetched claims' he professes to guard against".

Mr Biden pressed forward with plans to build his administration, assembling a team of experts to face the surging COVID-19 pandemic.

But the federal agency that needs to greenlight the beginnings of the transition of power held off on taking that step.

And the White House moved to crack down on those not deemed sufficiently loyal, such as Defence Secretary Mark Esper, as Mr Trump continued to refuse to concede the race.

Mr Trump remained out of sight at the White House, with conversations ongoing about how the defeated president would spend the coming days and weeks as he challenged the people's verdict.

The former reality TV star is not expected to formally concede but is likely to grudgingly vacate the White House at the end of his term, according to several people around him.

The possibility of more campaign-style rallies are being discussed as Mr Trump tries to keep his supporters fired up despite his defeat. It was possible they would feature his family and prominent supporters, but not the president himself.

The removal of Mr Esper, the Pentagon chief, was expected by some aides to be the first of several firings by Mr Trump.

Others believed to now be vulnerable include FBI Director Christopher Wray, CIA head Gina Haspel and infectious disease expert Dr Anthony Fauci.

https://news.sky.com/story/us-elect...am-barr-approves-fraud-investigation-12128927
 
According to a new survey, 70% of Republicans do not believe the presidential election was “free and fair”, even though multiple news outlets have called it for Joe Biden.

There has been a dramatic decline in Republican voters’ faith in the system. Before the election, in the same Politico/Morning Consult poll, 35% of Republicans thought the vote would not be free and fair.

More Democrats voiced trust in the election, 90% saying they thought the results were “free and fair”, up 52% from the pre-election poll.

Among Republicans who thought the election wasn’t fair, 78% thought mail-in ballots spurred extensive voter fraud, while 72% believed ballot tampering occurred.

Donald Trump and his supporters continue to allege such problems, without offering any substantiating evidence whatsoever.

On Monday the attorney general, William Barr, authorized federal prosecutors to investigate “substantial allegations” of voter irregularities, a decision which marked a sharp turn from Department of Justice policy and was made without citing any evidence of voter fraud.

The White House press secretary, Kayleigh McEnany, reiterated Trump’s refusal to concede and repeated accusations of voter fraud. Fox News, which has historically treated Trump more charitably, cut away from her press conference.

Among Republican voters surveyed by Politico and Morning Consult, 84% said the election helped Biden. Before election day, 18% of Republicans said they thought results would be unreliable. Now, that number has surged to 64%. Among Democrats, 86% said they trusted the results.

Republicans thought results in swing states were especially questionable, particularly in Pennsylvania, which counted ballots for four days before Biden won it. Republican-to-Democrat distrust in Pennsylvania’s results was 62% to 8%.

GOP voters voiced similar distrust in Wisconsin, Nevada, Georgia and Arizona. But Republicans were divided on whether the winner would change under Trump’s legal onslaught. Of such voters, 38% said they thought results would be reversed and 45% did not.

The poll, carried out between 6 November and 9 November, surveyed 1,987 registered voters and had a 2% margin of error. The majority of calls were conducted after news outlets called the race for Biden.

Several weeks ago, a Yahoo! News poll conducted by YouGov found that half of Trump supporters believed in QAnon, the false conspiracy theory that a group of Satan-worshipping Democrats, billionaires and celebrities control the world while carrying out pedophilia and human trafficking.

QAnon’s followers also believe that these people harvest a purportedly life-extending substance from the blood of exploited children.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ling-study-republicans?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
 
All thanks to RW media campaign every where questioning the very integrity of our institutions.

Extremely alarming and dangerous precedent. This country’s politics is going down the same drain as third world countries. There are no checks and balances in the name of freedom of speech. Anybody can spread any manner of lies and misinformation and people are stupid enough to believe everything they read/hear on social media or RW TV channels.
 
US election: Justice lawyer quits after attorney general orders 'vote fraud' inquiries

US attorney general William Barr has allowed federal prosecutors to probe alleged irregularities in the presidential election, prompting a top justice department official to quit.

The official, Richard Pilger, would have overseen such investigations.

Any such cases would normally be the remit of individual states, but Mr Barr said this was not a hard and fast rule.

Donald Trump refuses to accept Joe Biden's projected victory, and has made unsubstantiated fraud claims.

The president's campaign is seeking an emergency injunction in Pennsylvania to prevent Mr Biden's victory being certified in the state.

The president-elect's projected win there on Saturday took him over the threshold of 270 electoral college votes needed to secure victory nationwide.

What is Mr Barr saying?

The attorney general wrote that inquiries could be made by federal prosecutors "if there are clear and apparently-credible allegations of irregularities that, if true, could potentially impact the outcome of a federal election in an individual State".

Mr Barr said prosecutors should only look into "substantial allegations" of irregularities.

He acknowledged that individual states had the primary responsibility for the conduct of elections but said the justice department had "an obligation to ensure that federal elections are conducted in such a way that the American people can have full confidence in their electoral process and their government".

The department would normally only go beyond preliminary investigations after an election had been concluded and the results certified, but Mr Barr said this could result in situations where "misconduct cannot realistically be rectified".

Mr Pilger said he had quit in response to Mr Barr's memo.

"Having familiarised myself with the new policy and its ramifications... I must regretfully resign from my role," he wrote in an email to colleagues.

Mr Pilger became head of the department's Election Crimes Branch in 2010. This branch, and Mr Pilger himself, were previously in the public eye at the time of a row about extra scrutiny of political groups seeking tax exemption.

He was reported to have had discussions about the issue with Lois Lerner, the tax official at the centre of the row.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54882647
 
Stewie said:
All thanks to RW media campaign every where questioning the very integrity of our institutions.

Extremely alarming and dangerous precedent. This country’s politics is going down the same drain as third world countries. There are no checks and balances in the name of freedom of speech. Anybody can spread any manner of lies and misinformation and people are stupid enough to believe everything they read/hear on social media or RW TV channels.
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What is RW media?
 
President-elect Joe Biden has called Donald Trump’s refusal to concede “an embarrasment” but said nothing would stop the transition of power after his term ends.

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, when asked on Tuesday if the he was cooperating with President-elect Joe Biden’s transition team, said “there will be a smooth transition to a second Trump administration”.

President Donald Trump has reportedly ordered agencies to, for the time being, block the transition to the Biden administration, again bucking election norms.

The Biden team has threatened legal action if the government agency that can unlock transition funds and office access continues to not recognise his victory.

There are 71 days until Trump’s term ends on January 20, and 34 days until the Electoral College officially votes on the president based on state results.
 
US postal worker recants voter-fraud claims after Republicans call for inquiry – reports

A postal worker whose allegations of ballot tampering are the basis of Republican calls for investigations has reportedly recanted his story.

Democrats on the House oversight committee said that Richard Hopkins – the worker who claimed in a signed affidavit that a supervisor at the US Postal Service (USPS) in Erie, Pennsylvania, instructed staff to tamper with ballots by backdating ones that arrived late – had recanted the allegations in an interview with investigators for the USPS inspector general.

Investigators told the committee that Hopkins “did not explain why he signed a false affidavit”, the committee wrote in a statement.

Hopkins admitted to fabricating his claims, the Washington Post reported on Tuesday, citing three officials. After he submitted the affidavit, the South Carolina Republican senator Lindsay Graham, who heads the Senate judiciary committee, called for a federal investigation.

Yesterday, the US attorney general sent a memo to prosecutors approving federal investigations into voter fraud, despite a lack of evidence that such fraud was taking place.

In response, the top justice department official in charge of voter fraud investigations, Richard Pilger, resigned, pointing to a 40-year department policy to refrain from intervening in elections and carry out investigations only after elections are certified.

News that Hopkins had fabricated his claims came as the Trump campaign continued to pursue longshot lawsuits in Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona and Georgia that are not backed by credible evidence.

Among these lawsuits is an effort in Pennsylvania to push the US supreme court to reject mail-in ballots that are postmarked by election day and arrived at election offices up to three days later. The state’s supreme court had approved a deadline extension for ballots that arrived late; several other states accept late-arriving ballots.

The Trump campaign attempted to argue in federal court that Republican observers were blocked from monitoring the vote count, until a lawyer for the campaign had to admit that actually a “non-zero” number of observers had been allowed.

These dubious lawsuits and investigations have continued after media outlets projected that Joe Biden was the clear winner of the election. Trump has yet to concede and has illegitimately declared himself the victor.

Top Republicans, including the Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, have defended Trump’s right to challenge the election results. On Monday, McConnell said in a speech on the Senate floor that Trump was “100% within his rights to look into allegations of irregularities and weigh his legal options”.

Republicans have been scrambling to drum up any evidence to back their baseless claims of fraud, opening up a hotline that was inundated with prank calls. On Tuesday, Dan Patrick, the Republican lieutenant governor of Texas, said he was offering $1m to incentivize people to come forth with evidence of irregularities.

The party’s efforts are unlikely to have any effect on the outcome of the presidential election. Biden has secured a big enough lead in swing states that even if some ballots that Republicans want thrown out were discarded, he would still win.

But critics have said that the president’s refusal to admit defeat and Republicans’ efforts to challenge the results are sowing doubt in the US elections system.

A Reuters/Ipsos poll this week of 1,363 adults found that 79% of Americans believe Joe Biden won the election, including about 60% of Republicans. About 72% said that the loser of the election should concede. A separate poll from Politico and Morning Consult, however, found that 70% of Republicans do not believe the presidential election was “free and fair”.

The president and his party’s efforts to undermine the effectiveness of the US elections system began before election day.

In August, Trump admitted he was undermining the postal service so the USPS would have a harder time delivering mail-in ballots. Louis DeJoy, the postmaster general and a major Republican donor, was found to have made cuts to the service amid major service delays reported around the country.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...aud-claims-after-republicans-call-for-inquiry
 
A number of leading Republicans have broken ranks, either congratulating Biden on his election victory or at least pushing for a smooth transition at the White House - despite the fact that Trump is refusing to concede.

The group may be small - but it is growing and includes:

Senators

Lisa Murkowski, Alaska
Marco Rubio, Florida
Susan Collins, Maine
Ben Sasse, Nebraska
Pat Toomey, Pennsylvania
Mike Rounds, South Dakota
Mitt Romney, Utah
Representatives

Francis Rooney, Florida
Adam Kinzinger, Illinois
Fred Upton, Michigan
Paul Mitchell, Michigan
Tom Reed, New York
Will Hurd, Texas

Meanwhile Democratic Senator Chris ***** from Delaware told CNN some Republicans are asking him to congratulate Biden on their behalf because they don't feel able to do so publicly.

"They call me to say, you know, 'Congratulations, please convey my well wishes to the President-elect, but I can't say that publicly yet'," he told the broadcaster.

"My job here, I think, is to continue to urge them privately to do the right thing," he added.

Several governors and former President George W Bush have also congratulated Biden.
 
Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump is refusing to concede the 2020 election to President-elect Joe Biden, but once Trump moves to the acceptance stage of his defeat, the urgent business of presidential pardons is likely to surge to the top of his checklist before leaving office.

From campaign associates to members of his family -- and even possibly himself -- Trump could use his expansive pardon power to try to settle legal questions on his way out the door.

Current and former Trump administration officials say there's been minimal preparation for an expected onslaught of clemencies, as Trump is still pursuing dubious legal challenges to the election. But his Twitter feed over the past three years offers a working list of where the President might turn to wield his pardon power -- primarily toward those targeted by former special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation.
Perhaps the biggest looming pardon question is whether Trump will consider granting himself a pardon, amid state investigations into his business and finances and the prospect of federal investigators scrutinizing him after he leaves office.

Trump has been asking aides since 2017 about whether he can self-pardon, former aides tell CNN. One former White House official said Trump asked about self-pardons as well as pardons for his family. Trump even asked if he could issue pardons pre-emptively for things people could be charged with in the future, the former official said.

"Once he learned about it, he was obsessed with the power of pardons," the official said. "I always thought he also liked it because it was a way to do a favor."

Trump's pardons, however, would only cover federal crimes, and would not protect him or others from ongoing investigations into the Trump Organization being led by the New York attorney general and the Manhattan district attorney.

Former aides to Trump are split on whether Trump would actually consider giving himself a pardon. Some see it as a near-certainty -- "Of course he will," the former official said -- while others believe it's unlikely, because doing so would imply he's guilty of something.

A highly personal process

To date, Trump's record on presidential pardons is -- like much of the rest of his presidency -- marked by personal connections, showmanship and an aversion to going through official government channels.
The Office of the Pardon Attorney, a Justice Department bureaucracy that is usually active in vetting clemency applications has been left out of Trump's highly personal process in deciding pardons, playing a role in only eight of the 27 pardons issued by Trump, according to a spokeswoman.

Instead, beneficiaries have won clemency by getting their requests to Trump through friends, Fox News personalities or Hollywood celebrities who talk to the president. That unusual pipeline has worked for people like Joe Arpaio, former Arizona Sheriff, Dinesh D'Souza, right wing commentator, and Michael Milken, a financier convicted of securities fraud.

Trump has also granted pardons at the urging of Kim Kardashian West, who made her case in the Oval Office. And earlier this year, he commuted the sentence of his longtime confidante Roger Stone, whose conviction stemmed from the Mueller investigation.

Trump's arrangement is likely to benefit people close to the President who are already on his radar because he claims they were unfairly targeted for prosecution.

Among those likeliest to benefit are former Trump campaign associates who have convictions following Special Counsel Robert Mueller's investigation: Michael Flynn, George Papadopoulos, Paul Manafort and others. Trump has long claimed he and his campaign were illegally targeted and that campaign associates only got into trouble because of their association with him.

Several officials said Flynn -- whose guilty plea to Mueller is being litigated after the Justice Department sought to dismiss it earlier this year -- would be at the top of Trump's list of pardons.

Trump has previously dangled pardons for witnesses who testified before the special counsel, including Manafort and Flynn, and Mueller's report detailed Trump's public discussion of pardons in the volume on possible obstruction of justice.

Sources say other potential beneficiaries of Trump's lame-duck pardons include Charles Kushner, his son-in-law Jared Kushner's father, who was prosecuted more than a decade ago by then-US Attorney Chris Christie. Trump Organization chief financial officer, Allen Weisselberg, who received immunity in the Michael Cohen case, and Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani, who is under federal investigation, could also be considered.

The White House declined to comment on the matter.

The notion of presidents using pardons on their way out the door is nothing new. On his final day in office, former President Bill Clinton pardoned his brother, Roger Clinton, on decade-old drug charges, and Mark Rich, who had fled the US after being indicted for tax evasion. President George H.W. Bush pardoned his former Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger for his role in the Iran-Contra scandal.
An 'absolute right'

The idea a self-pardon has animated Trump's liberal critics for years. And Trump himself, on Twitter of course, made clear the thought has occurred to him. "As has been stated by numerous legal scholars, I have the absolute right to PARDON myself, but why would I do that when I have done nothing wrong?" Trump tweeted in June 2018.

Trump's legal team and administration officials have downplayed the prospect. There's no precedent for doing so and the constitutionality of such a pardon is untested constitutionally, with legal experts split on whether it would be legitimate.

TRUMP WHITE HOUSE

Trump's public schedules show little interest in work as he protests Biden's legitimate election
Pence under the radar as Trump fights for power

The Justice Department looked at the question in the Nixon era and concluded it wasn't within the president's power to pardon himself. "Under the fundamental rule that no one may be a judge in his own case, the President cannot pardon himself," the Office of Legal Counsel wrote in August 1974.

The OLC memo laid out alternate possibilities of which Trump could avail himself: he could temporarily declare himself unable to perform his presidential duties, allowing the vice president to act as president, including by issuing him a pardon, and then the president could resume his duties as president, or resign. The OLC memo also said Congress could pass a legislative pardon.

Several people familiar with the matter said that despite the President's interest, the White House counsel's office under Don McGahn, Ty Cobb and Emmet Flood didn't research the matter and didn't consider it as a serious possibility.

"He asked stuff all the time -- asking this stuff of everybody," one person said.
One former official said Trump was so fascinated by his pardon powers that senior level officials would sometimes bring up their research on the matter just to get Trump off another subject they wanted to steer away from.

There is precedent for a pre-emptive pardon -- former President Gerald Ford pardoned former President Richard Nixon after he resigned from office. But another senior former White House official cautioned against the notion that Trump would give himself a pardon, because it would suggest that he'd done something criminal that required it.

Another reason it was less likely, the official said, was that a pardon would only apply to alleged federal criminal behavior -- meaning it wouldn't stop the New York state attorney general's or the Manhattan district attorney from investigating him.

Last month, Trump's son Eric Trump sat for a deposition as part of an investigation from New York Attorney General Letitia James into whether the Trump Organization inflated the value of Trump's assets.

And the Manhattan District Attorney Cy Vance is still fighting in court to gain access to Trump's tax returns, as part of his investigation into the Trump Organization.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/12/politics/trump-pardons-loom-defeat/index.html
 
US election security officials reject Trump's fraud claims

US election officials have said the 2020 White House vote was the "most secure in American history", rejecting President Donald Trump's fraud claims.

"There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised," a committee announced.

They spoke out after Mr Trump claimed without proof that 2.7 million votes for him had been "deleted".

He has yet to concede to the president-elect, Democrat Joe Biden.

The result of the 3 November election was projected by all the major US TV networks last weekend.

Mr Biden is now projected to have won Arizona, extending his lead by 11 electoral college votes to a total of 290, with Mr Trump on 217. It is the first time the state has voted Democrat since 1996.

Mr Trump has launched a flurry of legal challenges in key states and levelled unsubstantiated allegations of widespread electoral fraud.

Meanwhile, China has finally extended its congratulations to Mr Biden and his running mate Kamala Harris after days of silence. "We respect the choice of the American people," a foreign ministry spokesman said. Russia has said it wants to wait for an "official result".

Read more: https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54926084
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Heartwarming to see all of the tremendous support out there, especially the organic Rallies that are springing up all over the Country, including a big one on Saturday in D.C. I may even try to stop by and say hello. This Election was Rigged, from Dominion all the way up & down!</p>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1327319294057848832?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 13, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">New <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@realDonaldTrump</a> record:<br><br>At 6 days without a verbal public statement, it's the longest <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Trump?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Trump</a> has gone w/out speaking on camera for his presidency. <br><br>His daily # tweets are off 43% from the 2020 daily avg. since Election Day. Note: 32% of those tweets were flagged by TWTR. <a href="https://t.co/eotGFQi4LM">pic.twitter.com/eotGFQi4LM</a></p>— Factba.se (@FactbaseFeed) <a href="https://twitter.com/FactbaseFeed/status/1326729607563907072?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 12, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Trump’s spurious legal claims have collapsed in Arizona and Pennsylvania.
 
well we all expected that, didnt we? no legal grounding, no evidence, no proof, no legit witnesses... just hearsay and conspiracy theories we have all seen and heard throughout Trump's tenure. Well it all stops here. You could use these tactics to sway public opinion in your favor, but you are not going to get anywhere with the election officials and the courts using these idiotic tactics.

He is doing nothing but creating an image of a very very bad loser. Yuuuge loser! Who lost bigly and badly. SAD!
 
While Americans have voted by mail in many election cycles, the number of people who voted by mail in 2020 was unprecedented because of the coronavirus pandemic.

To avoid the crowds at polling locations on election day, more than 100 million Americans cast early or absentee votes, doubling the total who did so in 2016.

President Trump has described mail-in voting as "the scam of all time", claiming that it allows widespread voter fraud. It does not, say the experts. But is there any evidence to back up his claims?

Sky News' team in the US, Alistair Bunkall, James Matthews and Becky Cotterill, have examined Trump's most popularised election theories to see if there is any truth to them.

Donald Trump has made a slew of unfounded allegations
Is voter fraud widespread among mail-in voting?

Top officials at the Department of Homeland Security issued a statement declaring the 2020 election "the most secure in American history".

"There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised."

Were ballots that arrived late counted?

The Trump campaign has claimed that ballots arriving after election day were illegally counted.

However, 22 states and Washington DC allowed ballots to arrive after the 3 November if they were postmarked by election day.

There is no evidence that states counted ballots that arrived after their deadlines.

Did military ballots go missing in Georgia?

Three days after the election President Trump tweeted: "Where are the missing military ballots in Georgia? What happened to them?"

At the time of Trump's tweet, Georgia was still waiting to receive 8,410 military ballots by mail.

These ballots were not missing. The deadline for receiving those ballots had not yet passed at the time of Trump's tweet. In fact the ballots had just over four hours to arrive to be counted by the state's deadline (5pm on 6 November).

"There are ballots that are going to make it, there are ballots that are not going to make it," said a Georgia election official. "We are going to count all the legal ballots."

Were late ballots backdated in an attempt to allow them to be counted?

A postal worker in Pennsylvania claimed that managers instructed workers to backdate ballots mailed after election day, so that they could be included in the count.

This prompted senior Republican senator Lindsey Graham to write to the Justice Department demanding an investigation. The following day attorney general William Barr authorised federal prosecutors to look into allegations of voter fraud.

However the postal worker who made the initial claims has subsequently confessed they aren't true and signed an affidavit recanting his allegations.

Did a "software glitch" cause ballots to switch from Trump to Biden in Michigan?

A clerk in Michigan forgot to update software on the ballot counting machine meaning that thousands of votes went to Joe Biden when they should have been recorded for Donald Trump.

Systems in place caught the error before it went further and it was quickly corrected.

So this allegation is true, in a sense, although the error was human not software-related and the final result was accurate.

Republican clerks have also vehemently dismissed the claims of fraud as "categorically false".

Were the identities of four deceased people used to vote in Georgia?

Two of these allegations have been proven false.

Officials in Georgia found that one of accused was actually removed from the voter rolls when they died in 2003 - a person with a similar name voted legally this year though, which is maybe where the confusion arose.

A second was also removed from the voter roll after his death so didn't vote in 2020 - his wife however did vote, using his name but the 'Mrs' prefix. Again, this has been cleared up.

Officials are still looking into the other two allegations.

Donald Trump tweeted: "THE OBSERVERS WERE NOT ALLOWED INTO THE COUNTING ROOMS." Were they?

There's no evidence of this. Indeed, the Republican lawyers who have brought legal challenges - in Pennsylvania and Nevada - have acknowledged that observers were given access.

The legal action has centred not on the denial of access, but on how close observers could get to the count.

Wisconsin voter numbers - a fraud?

"Looks like fraud!" tweeted Eric Trump, Donald's son, in response to incorrect social media claims about voter turnout in Wisconsin.

An image suggested there had been 3,170,206 votes counted but only 3,129,000 registered voters, adding "WISCONSIN REPORTING 101+% VOTER TURNOUT!"

In fact, the Wisconsin Elections Commission had 3,684,726 registered voters in the days before election day.

Is the #Sharpiegate conspiracy theory true?

Trump allies have promoted the so-called #Sharpiegate conspiracy. This relates to the felt-tip 'Sharpie' pen given to voters to mark their ballot paper.

Trump supporters fuelled doubt over the Arizona count by promoting the theory that vote-scanning machines in Maricopa County, Arizona, couldn't read ballots marked by the Sharpie.

Arizona election officials have repeatedly insisted that its machinery is fully compatible with the use of the Sharpie pen and that there is no truth in any suggestion otherwise.

By way of explanation, Maricopa County Elections Department tweeted: "Transparency and security is of the utmost importance to us. We provided Sharpies to be used for in person voters at all Maricopa County Vote Centers.

"After multiple tests, we found Sharpie to have the fastest-drying ink and best suited for our Vote Center tabulators."

https://news.sky.com/story/us-election-2020-donald-trumps-voter-fraud-claims-debunked-12132000
 
He almost conceded inadvertently in a speech last night. LOL I suppose an accidental concession would be a fitting end to this most unusual, eccentric and messy of presidencies.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Doing a great job in Georgia. Their recount is a scam, means nothing. Must see fraudulent signatures which is prohibited by stupidly signed & unconstitutional consent decree. <a href="https://twitter.com/BrianKempGA?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@BrianKempGA</a> <a href="https://t.co/UtEp3FN22S">https://t.co/UtEp3FN22S</a></p>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1327952603318194178?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 15, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">He won because the Election was Rigged. NO VOTE WATCHERS OR OBSERVERS allowed, vote tabulated by a Radical Left privately owned company, Dominion, with a bad reputation & bum equipment that couldn’t even qualify for Texas (which I won by a lot!), the Fake & Silent Media, & more! <a href="https://t.co/Exb3C1mAPg">https://t.co/Exb3C1mAPg</a></p>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1327956491056279552?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 15, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">All of the mechanical “glitches” that took place on Election Night were really THEM getting caught trying to steal votes. They succeeded plenty, however, without getting caught. Mail-in elections are a sick joke!</p>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1327958640309972992?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 15, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
JaDed said:
Ah ok , newsmax
Click to expand...

You will hear Rwingers complain about msm or “mainstream media” non stop, but here are some interesting things to consider.
Fox News, is the highest watched cable news channel.
On radio, Limbaugh’s talk radio is probably the oldest most listened to political RW talk show.

So who is the mainstream media really? All these people take in million, possibly billions of dollars through their shows and mass following. Hannity, tucker, Limbaugh, o Reilly, and others. Now there is OAN, newsmax, and they are fast overpowering channels such as CNN, msnbc, abc, cbs, etc in terms of viewership. They have a much higher polarized view on things and they complain that the MSM is divisive.
You can listen to both sides and make your judgment.
I actually did it for almost a year and discovered a few things:
1. They are both equally biased. CNN/MSNBC, etc lean left a lot
2. But the RW media is a lot more prone to airing unverified claims and conspiracy theories. Most of their content is talk show based which are opinion pieces any way. They refuse to observe the traditional journalistic etiquette. Conspiracy theories galore!
3. There is a LOT more money involved with RW media. Their shows have tons of breaks with ads about specific products they market. To them it seems it’s a business to tell people what they want to hear so they can sell them things. My pillow is a good example. You don’t see this side of things much on liberal media.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I WON THE ELECTION!</p>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1328200072987893762?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 16, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

🤣🤣
 
Trump is hurting national security now by refusing to concede. Biden is not getting briefed by the Pentagon. He will have to cold-start in January.
 
Barack Obama has said it's "absolutely" time for President Donald Trump to concede the election - and that he should have already done so.

Mr Trump's predecessor told CBS' 60 Minutes programme that he should have conceded defeat to Joe Biden "the day after the election" and it was time for America's outgoing leader to "put the country first".

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"When your time is up then it's your job to put the country first and think beyond your own ego and your own interests, and your own disappointments," said Mr Obama.

Play Video - Biden: Trump's behaviour 'an embarrassment'

Biden: Trump's behaviour 'an embarrassment'

"My advice to President Trump is, if you want at this late stage in the game to be remembered as somebody who put country first, it's time for you to do the same thing," the Democrat continued.

When asked if it was time for Mr Trump to concede, he said: "It is, absolutely. I think it was time for him to concede probably the day after the election."

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Mr Obama also criticised the high-profile Republicans who have gone along with Mr Trump's unfounded claims of widespread voter fraud.

"I'm more troubled by the fact that other Republican officials, who clearly know better are going along with this, are humouring him in this fashion," he said.

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"It is one more step in delegitimising not just the incoming Biden administration, but democracy generally. And that's a dangerous path."

On Mr Trump's election fraud theories, he said: "The president doesn't like to lose and never admits loss."

Play Video - Trump: 'Time will tell' who'll be in charge

Trump: 'Time will tell' who'll be in charge

Earlier on Sunday, Mr Trump admitted for the first time that President-elect Biden "won" the US election - but quickly made clear he wasn't conceding.

He made the original admission in a tweet along with more unfounded claims the vote was unfairly and deliberately stacked against him.

Mr Trump wrote of his soon-to-be successor: "He won because the election was rigged.

"NO VOTE WATCHERS OR OBSERVERS allowed, vote tabulated by a radical left privately owned company, Dominion, with a bad reputation & bum equipment that couldn't even qualify for Texas (which I won by a lot!), the Fake & Silent Media, & more!"

He then tried to take back the apparent acknowledgement that Mr Biden won the White House, adding that he was making clear he would keep trying to overturn the election result.

"He only won in the eyes of the FAKE NEWS MEDIA," Mr Trump subsequently tweeted. "I concede NOTHING! We have a long way to go. This was a RIGGED ELECTION!"

Play Video - Pro- and anti-Trump protesters clash

Pro- and anti-Trump protesters clash

Last week, Mr Trump became the first president since 1992 to fail to get re-elected, following projections Mr Biden had successfully flipped the key states of Pennsylvania, Arizona and Georgia to win the White House.

Mr Biden so far has 78.8m votes, the most ever by a winning candidate, to Mr Trump's 73.1m.

Critics had hoped the initial tweet from Mr Trump - who has lost the Electoral College by 74 and popular vote by five million votes - was a sign that he had finally accepted the result.

Image:Mr Obama campaigned alongside his former vice president ahead of the election

Mr Biden's incoming chief of staff, Ron Klain, told NBC News: "If the president's prepared to begin to recognise that reality, that's positive."

He added: "Donald Trump's Twitter feed doesn't make Joe Biden president or not president.

"The American people did that."

And a Republican governor, Arkansas' Asa Hutchinson, said "it was good, actually" to see Mr Trump's tweet seemingly admitting that Mr Biden had won.

"I think that's the start of an acknowledgment... We want to make sure that there is a smooth transition," Mr Hutchinson said on NBC.

Image:The president spent the days immediately after his election defeat playing golf

In recent days, Mr Trump appeared to be inching closer to acknowledging the reality of his loss.

In comments made on Friday in the Rose Garden about a coronavirus vaccine, Mr Trump said his administration would "not be going to a lockdown" to slow the spread of COVID-19, but added that "whatever happens in the future, who knows which administration it will be? I guess time will tell".

But on Sunday he renewed his groundless attacks on an election technology firm, Dominion Voting Systems.

Dominion has said it "denies claims about any vote switching or alleged software issues with our voting systems".

The Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency, a federal agency that oversees US election security, said in a statement last week that the "November 3 election was the most secure in American history".

The agency said: "There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised."
 
Barack Obama has said it's "absolutely" time for President Donald Trump to concede the election - and that he should have already done so.

Mr Trump's predecessor told CBS' 60 Minutes programme that he should have conceded defeat to Joe Biden "the day after the election" and it was time for America's outgoing leader to "put the country first".

"When your time is up then it's your job to put the country first and think beyond your own ego and your own interests, and your own disappointments," said Mr Obama.

"My advice to President Trump is, if you want at this late stage in the game to be remembered as somebody who put country first, it's time for you to do the same thing," the Democrat continued.

When asked if it was time for Mr Trump to concede, he said: "It is, absolutely. I think it was time for him to concede probably the day after the election."

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Mr Obama also criticised the high-profile Republicans who have gone along with Mr Trump's unfounded claims of widespread voter fraud.

"I'm more troubled by the fact that other Republican officials, who clearly know better are going along with this, are humouring him in this fashion," he said.

"It is one more step in delegitimising not just the incoming Biden administration, but democracy generally. And that's a dangerous path."

On Mr Trump's election fraud theories, he said: "The president doesn't like to lose and never admits loss."

Earlier on Sunday, Mr Trump admitted for the first time that President-elect Biden "won" the US election - but quickly made clear he wasn't conceding.

He made the original admission in a tweet along with more unfounded claims the vote was unfairly and deliberately stacked against him.

Mr Trump wrote of his soon-to-be successor: "He won because the election was rigged.

"NO VOTE WATCHERS OR OBSERVERS allowed, vote tabulated by a radical left privately owned company, Dominion, with a bad reputation & bum equipment that couldn't even qualify for Texas (which I won by a lot!), the Fake & Silent Media, & more!"

He then tried to take back the apparent acknowledgement that Mr Biden won the White House, adding that he was making clear he would keep trying to overturn the election result.

"He only won in the eyes of the FAKE NEWS MEDIA," Mr Trump subsequently tweeted. "I concede NOTHING! We have a long way to go. This was a RIGGED ELECTION!"

Last week, Mr Trump became the first president since 1992 to fail to get re-elected, following projections Mr Biden had successfully flipped the key states of Pennsylvania, Arizona and Georgia to win the White House.

Mr Biden so far has 78.8m votes, the most ever by a winning candidate, to Mr Trump's 73.1m.

Critics had hoped the initial tweet from Mr Trump - who has lost the Electoral College by 74 and popular vote by five million votes - was a sign that he had finally accepted the result.

Mr Biden's incoming chief of staff, Ron Klain, told NBC News: "If the president's prepared to begin to recognise that reality, that's positive."

He added: "Donald Trump's Twitter feed doesn't make Joe Biden president or not president.

"The American people did that."

And a Republican governor, Arkansas' Asa Hutchinson, said "it was good, actually" to see Mr Trump's tweet seemingly admitting that Mr Biden had won.

"I think that's the start of an acknowledgment... We want to make sure that there is a smooth transition," Mr Hutchinson said on NBC.

Image:The president spent the days immediately after his election defeat playing golf

In recent days, Mr Trump appeared to be inching closer to acknowledging the reality of his loss.

In comments made on Friday in the Rose Garden about a coronavirus vaccine, Mr Trump said his administration would "not be going to a lockdown" to slow the spread of COVID-19, but added that "whatever happens in the future, who knows which administration it will be? I guess time will tell".

But on Sunday he renewed his groundless attacks on an election technology firm, Dominion Voting Systems.

Dominion has said it "denies claims about any vote switching or alleged software issues with our voting systems".

The Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency, a federal agency that oversees US election security, said in a statement last week that the "November 3 election was the most secure in American history".

The agency said: "There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised."

Source SKY
 
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Lawsuits that tried to disrupt Biden's wins in four states are withdrawn

(CNN)Voters in four states who had brought longshot lawsuits to disrupt President-elect Joe Biden's win and went nowhere in court dropped their cases Monday morning.

The cases were short-lived in Georgia, Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania federal courts, and fed into a pro-Donald Trump legal strategy that's almost certain to fail to block Biden's presidential win before the Electoral College formalized it.

The suits mirrored one another and were all backed by the law firm of a nationally known conservative attorney, James Bopp Jr. In Michigan and Pennsylvania, the cases had also gone hand in hand with ones brought by the Trump campaign.

Bopp, when asked for an explanation on why his team is pulling the suits, responded, "because of [attorney-client] privilege and because I do not telegraph my next moves, I cannot comment."

The announcement that the voters are dropping their suits comes three days after a federal appellate court said voters couldn't bring some constitutional claims, essentially shutting down the path the Pennsylvania voters wanted to take in their suit.

Trump has refused to concede the election and continues to make false claims of widespread voter fraud with no evidence. His campaign and GOP allies have filed numerous and flimsy legal challenges in the days following the November 3 election.

On Friday, nine cases meant to attack Biden's win in key states were denied or dropped. The Trump campaign dropped a lawsuit in Arizona that alleged some voters were confused on Election Day and feared that their ballots were not counted if the vote tabulation machines classified their ballots as "overvotes." They were seeking a hand review of any ballots flagged by the machine as overvotes alleging it could result in thousands of votes for Trump.

The Trump campaign on Friday also lost six cases in two counties in Pennsylvania over whether almost 9,000 absentee ballots could be thrown out. Pollwatchers in Michigan lost their case to stop the certification of votes in Detroit, and a judge rejected their allegations of fraud.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/16/...gan-pennsylvania-wisconsin-georgia/index.html
 
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Donald Trump says he has fired a top election official who contradicted the US president's claims of voter fraud.

President Trump said he "terminated" Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (Cisa) chief Chris Krebs for his "highly inaccurate" remarks on vote integrity.

Mr Trump has refused to concede the US election, and has made unsubstantiated claims of "massive" voter fraud.

Election officials said the vote was the "most secure" in US history.

Mr Krebs is the latest official to be dismissed by the US president following his defeat, with Defense Secretary Mark Esper also shown the door amid reports Mr Trump doubted the Pentagon chief's loyalty.

There is speculation in Washington DC that before Mr Trump leaves office in January, CIA director Gina Haspel and FBI director Christopher Wray could also be for the chopping block.
 
US election: Trump campaign seeks partial recount in Wisconsin

President Donald Trump is to seek a partial recount of votes in the state of Wisconsin which his rival Joe Biden is projected to win by 20,000 votes.

Hours before a Wednesday deadline, the Trump campaign said it wanted a recount in the counties of Milwaukee and Dane, alleging irregularities.

State officials said they had received $3m (£2.2m) from the Trump campaign to cover the costs of the recount.

A statewide recount would have cost the campaign an estimated $7.9m.

Mr Trump still refuses to concede the election and continues to make unsubstantiated claims of "massive" voter fraud.

His campaign team has filed a flurry of lawsuits contesting the results in key states, although election officials say there is no evidence of widespread irregularities.

President-elect Joe Biden, a Democrat, is projected to have won the popular vote by more than 5.6 million ballots - 3.6 percentage points - although some votes are still being counted. In the US electoral college system that decides the presidency, he has 306 votes to Mr Trump's 232.

The president would have to overturn results in at least three states to win the election, which analysts say would be unprecedented. A recount is currently under way in Georgia where Mr Biden is 14,000 votes ahead.

Under Wisconsin law, Mr Trump has the right to request a recount because the margin of Mr Biden's win was less than 1% but greater than 0.25%. However, his campaign must first cover the expenses of the operation.

In its request for a partial recount in Wisconsin ahead of Wednesday's deadline, the Trump re-election campaign alleged that absentee ballots had been altered and improperly issued, and voter identity laws had been circumvented. Milwaukee and Dane are both traditionally Democratic-leaning areas.

Dane and Milwaukee counties together represent more than a third of Mr Biden's Wisconsin votes, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported.

In Milwaukee, Mr Biden won by 317,270 votes to 134,357 while in Dane County the margin was 260,185 to 78,800 in Mr Biden's favour, it added.

The Wisconsin Elections Commission said on Monday that a full recount would cost an estimated $7.9m, to be paid in advance. Chief election official Meagan Wolfe said the costs took into account the need for larger spaces to allow public observation and social distancing as well other expenses such as security.

The latest move comes a day after Mr Trump fired a top cybersecurity official who had contradicted his claims of voter fraud.

President Trump said he "terminated" Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (Cisa) chief Chris Krebs for his "highly inaccurate" remarks on vote integrity.

Mr Krebs had reportedly angered the White House over a Cisa website called Rumor Control, which debunked election misinformation, much of it amplified by Mr Trump himself.

Hours before he was fired, he posted a tweet that appeared to take aim at Mr Trump's allegation that voting machines in various states had switched ballots to Mr Biden.

Mr Krebs tweeted: "On allegations that election systems were manipulated, 59 election security experts all agree, 'in every case of which we are aware, these claims either have been unsubstantiated or are technically incoherent.' #Protect2020".

Mr Krebs's dismissal brought outrage from Democrats. A spokesman for President-elect Joe Biden said "Chris Krebs should be commended for his service in protecting our elections, not fired for telling the truth".

Meanwhile, the Trump campaign faces a deadline of 8 December to resolve all election disputes. Official results are set to be confirmed when the US Electoral College meets on 14 December.

Mr Trump's refusal to acknowledge defeat and initiate a transition of power has infuriated Joe Biden and other Democrats.

Mr Biden has warned that without co-ordination over the handling of the coronavirus outbreak, "people may die" if a smooth transition does not take place.

The government agency that launches the process - the General Services Administration (GSA), headed by a Trump appointee - has yet to recognise Mr Biden and his running mate Kamala Harris as the winners of the 2020 election.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54994212
 
Trump is beating a dead horse here.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
President Donald Trump is to seek a partial recount of votes in the state of Wisconsin, which his rival Joe Biden is projected to win by 20,000 votes.

Hours before a Wednesday deadline, the Trump campaign said it wanted a recount in the counties of Milwaukee and Dane, alleging irregularities.

Mr Trump has been making unsubstantiated claims of fraud and refusing to initiate a handover.

Mr Biden says delaying the transition will damage the US pandemic response.
 
Options dwindling, Trump faces likely setback in Georgia recount

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. presidential election battleground state of Georgia is expected on Thursday to affirm Joe Biden’s victory over Donald Trump after a painstaking recount, which would deal yet another setback to the president’s attempts to cling to power.

Georgia’s top election official, a Republican, has said the manual recount of almost 5 million votes is unlikely to erode Biden’s initial 14,000 winning margin by enough to hand Trump victory in the state.

That would leave Republican Trump with a dwindling number of options to overturn the results of an election in which Democrat Biden won 5.8 million more votes nationwide. Barring a series of unprecedented events, Biden will be sworn in on Jan. 20.

In the state-by-state Electoral College that determines the winner, Biden has captured 306 electoral votes to Trump’s 232, well ahead of the 270 needed for victory. The winner in each state is awarded that state’s electoral votes, a number roughly proportional to the population.

Flipping Georgia’s 16 votes would still leave Trump at least two closely contested states away from overturning Biden’s victory. Georgia officials say they expect to release results on Thursday ahead of a certification deadline on Friday.

In Pennsylvania, where Biden won by 82,000 votes, the Trump campaign is asking a judge to declare him the winner there, saying its Republican-controlled legislature should choose the state’s slate of 20 Electoral College voters.

In Wisconsin, the Trump campaign has paid for a partial recount, even though election officials there say that will likely only add to Biden’s 20,000-vote advantage in a state that carries 10 electoral votes.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...kely-setback-in-georgia-recount-idUSKBN27Z0GN
 
US President-elect Joe Biden's victory in Georgia has been confirmed by a recount, as legal efforts by Donald Trump's allies to challenge his defeat were dismissed in three states.

The Democrat beat his Republican rival in Georgia by 12,284 votes, according to the audit required by state law.

Mr Biden said he was confident Mr Trump knew he was not going to win and had shown "incredible irresponsibility".

The Democrat is set to take office in January as the 46th US president.

Mr Biden's victory margin in the public vote overall stands at more than 5.9 million. His victory in the US Electoral College system, which determines who becomes president, is projected to be 306 to 232.

What happened in Georgia?
On Thursday, Georgia's Secretary of State, Brad Raffensperger, said the hand audit of ballots had not altered Mr Biden's victory in the state.

"Georgia's historic first statewide audit reaffirmed that the state's new secure paper ballot voting system accurately counted and reported results," Mr Raffensberger, a Republican, said in a statement.

"This is a credit to the hard work of our county and local elections officials who moved quickly to undertake and complete such a momentous task in a short period of time."

The recount found the error rate was no greater than 0.73% in any county and Mr Biden's margin of victory over Mr Trump remained at under 0.5%. The results will be certified on Friday.

Trump campaign senior legal adviser Jenna Ellis said the audit had gone "exactly as we expected" because, she said without evidence, the state had recounted illegal ballots.

But Gabriel Sterling, a Republican who serves as Georgia's voting system implementation manager, told CNN on Thursday: "One of the big complaints is these machines somehow flipped votes or changed votes or did stuff. They didn't, at least not in Georgia. We proved it."

During the audit this week, nearly 6,000 untallied votes were found - paring back Mr Biden's lead slightly - but they were the result of human error and not fraud, Mr Sterling has said.

Officials in Floyd County have fired their election manager over the matter, local media reported on Thursday.

What did Mr Biden say?
He was speaking after a virtual meeting with governors, including Democrats and Republicans, about the coronavirus crisis.

Asked about Mr Trump's lack of concession, Mr Biden said the president was sending "incredibly damaging messages... to the rest of the world about how democracy functions" and that he would be remembered "as being one of the most irresponsible presidents in American history".

"It's hard to fathom how this man thinks," he continued, adding: "It's just outrageous what he's doing."

Of the election result, the Democratic president-elect - who is due to take office in January - said: "The vast majority of people believe it's legitimate."

Republican Senator Mitt Romney later echoed Mr Biden in a tweet.

"Having failed to make even a plausible case of widespread fraud or conspiracy before any court of law, the President has now resorted to overt pressure on state and local officials to subvert the will of the people and overturn the election," he wrote.

"It is difficult to imagine a worse, more undemocratic action by a sitting American President."

What of the legal challenges?

In a matter of hours on Thursday, Mr Trump's allies were dealt legal setbacks in Georgia, Arizona and Pennsylvania.

Republicans lost their final lawsuit in Georgia as a court rejected their effort to block the results' certification, which is due to happen on Friday. The judge who dismissed the case was appointed by Mr Trump last year.

In Arizona, a judge rejected a lawsuit filed last week by the state Republican Party seeking a new audit of ballots in Maricopa County, home to Phoenix - the state capital and largest city.

In Pennsylvania, the Trump campaign lost their bid in state court to throw out more than 2,000 postal ballots.

At a Thursday briefing, Mr Trump's lawyer Rudy Giuliani continued to lay out unsubstantiated conspiracy theories and accusations of electoral fraud.

He railed against the reporting of his team's legal challenges, saying the media had shown an "irrational pathological hatred for the president".

What legal challenges is Trump planning?

Mr Giuliani also said the campaign was withdrawing its last remaining lawsuit in Michigan. He said it had achieved its aim of stopping the certification of the result in one key county.

However, the vice-chairman of Wayne County's canvassing board said an attempt by its two Republican members to rescind their earlier certification of the result was invalid, and the certification was binding.

One of the Republicans said Mr Trump had called her personally after the vote had been certified "to make sure I was safe".

Mr Biden won the county by a huge margin, according to unofficial results, and prevailed in Michigan by about 146,000 votes.

What could Trump's next move be?

One possibility that US media are speculating on is that he will try to get Republican-friendly state legislatures in key states to override the choice of voters and instead select members of the US Electoral College who would be favourable to the president.

Mr Trump has invited Michigan's Republican lawmakers to the White House on Friday, hinting at a possible change in tactics.

Instead of winning by direct popular vote, a US president must accumulate a majority of "electors" that each state is designated according to its congressional representation.

Most states determine these based on who won the popular vote there.

But federal law says statehouse legislators have the power to pick electors if the state has "failed to make a choice".

This would appear a long shot as no evidence of electoral fraud has been shown and to potentially disenfranchise millions of voters would spark uproar.

Reuters news agency quoted one source familiar with the Trump strategy as saying it was now a "more targeted approach towards getting the legislators engaged".

But one of the Michigan lawmakers going to the White House, Mike Shirkey, said earlier this week that the legislature appointing electors was "not going to happen".

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-55006188
 
Trump to meet Michigan lawmakers in bid to overturn electoral defeat

(Reuters) - President Donald Trump will meet with Republican leaders from Michigan at the White House on Friday as his campaign pursues an increasingly desperate bid to overturn the Nov. 3 election following a series of courtroom defeats.

The Trump campaign’s latest strategy, as described by three people familiar with the plan, is to convince Republican-controlled legislatures in battleground states won by President-elect Joe Biden, such as Michigan, to set aside the results and determine Trump the winner.

“The entire election frankly in all the swing states should be overturned and the legislatures should make sure that the electors are selected for Trump,” Sidney Powell, one of Trump’s lawyers, told Fox Business Network on Thursday.

Biden, a Democrat, won the election and is preparing to take office on Jan. 20, but Trump, a Republican, has refused to concede and is searching for a way to invalidate the results, claiming widespread voter fraud.

The Trump team is focusing on Michigan and Pennsylvania for now, but even if both those states flipped to the president he would need another state to overturn its vote to surpass Biden in the Electoral College.

Such an extraordinary event would be unprecedented in modern U.S. history. Trump not only would need three state legislatures to intervene against vote counts as they stand now, but then also have those actions upheld by Congress and, almost certainly, the Supreme Court.

Michigan’s state legislative leaders, Senate Majority Leader Mike Shirkey and House Speaker Lee Chatfield, both Republicans, will visit the White House at Trump’s request, according to a source in Michigan.

The two lawmakers will listen to what the president has to say, the source said. Shirkey told a Michigan news outlet earlier this week that the legislature would not appoint a second slate of electors.

“It’s incredibly dangerous that they are even entertaining the conversation,” Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer, a Democrat, told MSNBC. “This is an embarrassment to the state.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...id-to-overturn-electoral-defeat-idUSKBN2800I5
 
Go Trump Go....

===

US President-elect Joe Biden's narrow victory in Georgia will be officially certified by Republican Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger.

It comes as legal efforts by Donald Trump's allies to challenge his defeat were dismissed in three other states.

The Democrat beat his Republican rival in Georgia by 12,284 votes, according to the audit required by state law.

Mr Raffensperger on Friday said he was disappointed that his party lost but that "numbers don't lie".

Mr Biden is set to take office in January as the 46th US president.

Mr Biden's victory margin in the public vote overall stands at more than 5.9 million. His victory in the US Electoral College system, which determines who becomes president, is projected to be 306 to 232 - far above the 270 he needs to win.
 
Donald Trump has had a fresh setback in his bid to overturn his loss in the US election as Michigan lawmakers indicated they would not seek to undo Joe Biden's projected win in the state.

Two Republican legislators pledged to follow "normal process" in validating the vote after a White House meeting.

Earlier on Friday, Georgia dealt the US president another blow by certifying Mr Biden's razor-thin margin of victory.

The Democrat is set to take office on 20 January as the 46th US president.

Mr Biden's victory in the Electoral College system, which determines who becomes president, is projected to be 306 to 232 - far above the 270 he needs to win. His lead in the public vote overall stands at more than 5.9 million.

Mr Trump, who has had few public appearances since the 3 November vote, on Friday again falsely claimed victory. "I won, by the way," he said, while making an announcement on drug pricing.

He has made allegations of widespread electoral fraud, without providing any evidence.

His Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany accused the media and Democrats of hypocrisy.

"While in 2016 President Trump became the duly elected president, many sought to undermine him, discredit him, de-legitimise him and deny his victory. There were no calls for unity, there were no calls for healing," she said.

"So while every legal vote is counted let us not forget the inexcusable transition, or lack thereof, that President Trump had to endure in 2016 and for years into his presidency."

What is the president's next move?
After a string of court defeats in his efforts to challenge the election results, Mr Trump's team is hoping to convince legislatures controlled by his fellow Republicans in key states to ignore the outcome and declare Mr Trump the victor, according to multiple US media outlets.

Mr Trump has also expressed interest in inviting legislators from Pennsylvania, another battleground won by Mr Biden, to the White House, a senior campaign official confirmed to the BBC's US partner, CBS News.

But he has no such meetings currently listed on his public schedule for this weekend, and counties in the Rust Belt state, along with Michigan, are due to certify their vote totals on Monday.

It is seen as highly unlikely that the president's team would be able to flip Michigan and Pennsylvania.


media captionHow to move on after the US election
Even if they managed to do so, Mr Trump would still need to overturn the result in one other state in order to leap-frog Mr Biden in the Electoral College.

Michigan Senate Majority Leader Mike Shirkey and Speaker of the House Lee Chatfield confirmed the long odds of any such strategy after the White House meeting.

Donald Trump Jr tests positive for coronavirus
A president who loves attention now hunkered down
The two Republicans - hailing from a state that Mr Biden is projected to win by 154,000 votes - said they had focused during the discussion on Covid-19 assistance, not Mr Trump's efforts to overturn the election results.

The White House said earlier it was "not an advocacy meeting" and simply part of the president's routine meetings with state lawmakers across the country, although he has conducted very few engagements since the election.


media captionBBC Reality Check breaks down the bill for the world's most expensive election
Afterwards, Mr Shirkey and Mr Chatfield said in a joint press release: "We have not yet been made aware of any information that would change the outcome of the election in Michigan and as legislative leaders, we will follow the law and follow the normal process regarding Michigan's electors, just as we have said throughout this election."

Democrats accuse Mr Trump of abusing his office by trying to pressure the legislators to subvert the will of voters and seat their own electors to the Electoral College, which gathers on 14 December.

What has Joe Biden been up to?
Amid the row the president-elect has sought to plough on with the transition, this week announcing appointments and meeting national security experts.

On Friday he met two top Democratic legislators, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer, to discuss how to help "struggling working families and small businesses" during the worsening coronavirus outbreak.

"They agreed that Congress needed to pass a bipartisan emergency aid package," a joint statement said.

It said that Mr Biden also "raised his agenda for the first 100 days of his presidency".

In another development Twitter is preparing to hand control of the presidential @POTUS account - currently being used by Mr Trump - to Joe Biden on inauguration day even if Mr Trump has not conceded his loss by then, a spokesman for the company is quoted as saying by Politico.

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-55025997
 
Go On President Trump, the Judiciary wont overturn the election results. they are no doubt bought and paid for by the Dems.

there is only one thing left to do.
Mobilize your loyal republican supporters, armed with automatic guns and kevlar body armour.
March on Washington. You wont go out without a fight, you wont let them steal your election.

become Czar of the US, it is your destiny. Embrace it.
 
Time to accept defeat and move on - although, Trump cannot do that!
 
Guys remember to add your votes to the poll
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Big voter fraud information coming out concerning Georgia. Stay tuned!</p>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1330148622898515969?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 21, 2020</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Other than politics, how do you lose a case where large numbers of voters, far more than you need to flip Pennsylvania, are disenfranchised? Vote Observers thrown out of counting rooms. People going to vote finding out they have already voted through a fake ballot - go home!</p>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1330555645213483016?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 22, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Sidney Powell: Trump team cuts ties with lawyer who peddled bizarre fraud claims

The Trump campaign has distanced itself from a lawyer who made dramatic claims of voter fraud at several media events.

Sidney Powell claimed without evidence last week that electronic voting systems had switched millions of votes to President-elect Joe Biden, and said he won due to "communist money".

President Trump has refused to concede the election, making unsubstantiated claims of widespread electoral fraud.

Mr Biden won the US presidential election by a significant margin.

He is projected to win 306 votes in the US electoral college, which determines who becomes president - far above the 270 needed to win.

On Sunday, the Trump campaign issued a statement saying Ms Powell was "practising law on her own" and was "not a member of the Trump legal team".

"She is not a member of the Trump legal team. She is also not a lawyer for the president in his personal capacity," Trump campaign lawyers Rudy Giuliani and Jenna Ellis said in the statement.

In a statement released to CBS, Ms Powell said she understood the statement issued by Mr Giuliani and Ms Ellis, and that she would soon be filing a lawsuit over her unsubstantiated allegations of voter fraud.

A tweet from President Trump earlier this month explicitly named her as part of the team, referring to her as one of his "wonderful lawyers and representatives" .

Both Mr Giuliani and Ms Ellis had attended the Thursday news conference alongside Ms Powell, where she said, without providing evidence, that electronic voting systems switched millions of ballots to Mr Biden, and that he also won thanks to "communist money".

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-55040756
 
Has anyone noticed that news services reporting on the voting fraud always note that there is no evidence yet during the three years of claims that Trump was working with the Russians not once did they report that there was no evidence.
 
Gilly said:
Second paragraph of your link:
Click to expand...

No not really.

"US intelligence agencies concluded in 2016 that Russia was behind an effort to tip the scales of the US election against Hillary Clinton, with a state-authorised campaign of cyber attacks and fake news stories planted on social media."

Plus,

Junior's email with a Russian where he would love a meeting to get dirt on Clinton...

The point being that there was more then enough smoke whereas in the Election Rigging there has literally been zero evidence put forward by Trump's lawyers.
 
IMMY69 said:
No not really.

"US intelligence agencies concluded in 2016 that Russia was behind an effort to tip the scales of the US election against Hillary Clinton, with a state-authorised campaign of cyber attacks and fake news stories planted on social media."

Plus,

Junior's email with a Russian where he would love a meeting to get dirt on Clinton...

The point being that there was more then enough smoke whereas in the Election Rigging there has literally been zero evidence put forward by Trump's lawyers.
Click to expand...

What do you mean not really. It is the written in Mueller's report.

Muellers report stated that there was NO EVIDENCE THAT TRUMP COLLUDED WITH RUSSIA, unless you can point to something that Mueller did not know then there is no evidence that Trump colluded with Russia.
 
Gilly said:
What do you mean not really. It is the written in Mueller's report.

Muellers report stated that there was NO EVIDENCE THAT TRUMP COLLUDED WITH RUSSIA, unless you can point to something that Mueller did not know then there is no evidence that Trump colluded with Russia.
Click to expand...
\



We're not discussing what was or was not concluded...

You asked whether anyone has noticed that "news services reporting on the voting fraud always note that there is no evidence yet during the three years of claims that Trump was working with the Russians not once did they report that there was no evidence".

So I pointed out that there was smoke, and hence an investigation. There had to be some evidence for there to be investigations and the fact that in 2016 the US intelligence agencies "concluded that Russia was behind an effort to tip the scales". So there was something.

What evidence is there for voter fraud? Anything?
 
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