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Is fitness overrated?

zyrus

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Jan 12, 2017
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With :uak being the latest victim, this comes into my mind.

Lets look at couple of facts.

Inzamam was never a fit player, but he was a great batsman.

Neither Sarfraz nor Sharjeel are fit, but they're among the finest we got now.

Our injury-rate can possibly be rising due to the fact that we're over-stressing our players with all that fitness crap.

More game load along with fitness drama can not only harm body, but also results in lethargic attitude of players resulting in poor performance.

Our 'fittest' Rizwan is nowhere good with bat, so fitness can't guarantee greatness.


Are we looking in wrong direction? Fitness can surely help when you're reaching a century or you're fielding at tight spot or when bowling 150sh. But putting up this for every single player to that extent, is this even necessary? or its just an excuse used by our incompetent coaches/selectors for their shortcomings?
 
Lol this reminds me of the legendary Savak quote in his AF disguise : "Fitness is overrated."
 
Disagree. It's all about about a matter of precedence. Lack of fitness will always cause more problems in the long run. I appreciate the PCB/team management for this new found hard-on on fitness. These are professional athletes. There is no need to accommodate an amazing player if his fitness is below what is required at the international level, if you allow it for one player, it throws the whole system off.
 
Had inzi taken fitness more seriously he could have been even better.

Fitness isn't ovverated for me. Especially in an era where so much cricket is being played. Being fit allows you as a batsmen to turn those 1s into 2s when your tired. As a bowler being fit you can bowl as quickly at the end of the day as you was at the start of the day. Having good fitness and being in good shape will also help in the field. It allows you to move around more freely in the field.

It plays a big part. Don't believe me just ask one of the best batsmen in the world today and ask our recently retired legend.
 
No it's not. Fitness is needed, it makes great players greater. Without fitness you're not helping with fielding either and you know, catches win matches.
 
It's trade off. If skills are too high, leniency will be given on fitness. Like can we drop yousuf or inzi from test team due to fitness. Half fit Wasim Akram worth more than full fit Ata ur Rehman.
 
Formula is easy:
Player I like = start rhetorical thread on utility of fitness and trade offs vs performance
Payer I don't like = BAN HIM!!!!'
 
We want modern cricket without modern fitness :uakmal

Fitness has an impact over your reflexes, agility and ability to play shots as well as long innings.

Umar Akmal is not only fat but slow and lazy, He is not agile. On top of that a mediocre player
 
Obviously the cricket skill needs to be good as well, or else you'd just have am XI of marathon runners because they're fit.

Inzimam could've had many more centuries had he been able to last that long on the field

"rising injury rate" is a myth, plus some players have put it on themselves by not already being fit, so now they have to do double the work now.

Any player who has a lethargic attitude for their fitness should be shown the door especially if they aren't even good... Like :uakmal

Regarding Rizwan, like I said, cricket skill comes first.

Your last paragraph answers the whole question.
 
Disagree. It's all about about a matter of precedence. Lack of fitness will always cause more problems in the long run. I appreciate the PCB/team management for this new found hard-on on fitness. These are professional athletes. There is no need to accommodate an amazing player if his fitness is below what is required at the international level, if you allow it for one player, it throws the whole system off.

In order to have a long run, you need to have a player who's good enough to last that long, but if you're going to waste all you energies on running rolling dancing and not working over the main aspects of game, there's very little to worry about in longer run then.

It's not about one or two players, the whole fitness thing seems greatly exaggerated since 2010/2011 when Waqar and now Mickey tried to hide behind this as excuse.

Lol this reminds me of the legendary Savak quote in his AF disguise : "Fitness is overrated."


But its true for most of the times.
 
Had inzi taken fitness more seriously he could have been even better.

Fitness isn't ovverated for me. Especially in an era where so much cricket is being played. Being fit allows you as a batsmen to turn those 1s into 2s when your tired. As a bowler being fit you can bowl as quickly at the end of the day as you was at the start of the day. Having good fitness and being in good shape will also help in the field. It allows you to move around more freely in the field.

It plays a big part. Don't believe me just ask one of the best batsmen in the world today and ask our recently retired legend.

We want mores "is" than "could have been". Don't you think that when a person is playing much cricket, there's lesser need of worrying about fitness as the person will auto-sync with ability to run or bowl with time? Moving freely may be the only good point, but are you willing to sacrifice Inzaman-quality batsman for Rizwan like free-mover?


Formula is easy:
Player I like = start rhetorical thread on utility of fitness and trade offs vs performance
Payer I don't like = BAN HIM!!!!'

I would say this for any player, from Irfan, Ajmal to Umar or Wahab.

Yes, its a trade of, that's why I used the word over-rated. Maybe few players really require such sort of fitness, but when a person is playing same sport every day, fitness is not much of an issue, his game will be however.
 
The issue with UA is that he hasn't bought enough to the table with his batting for a while now therefore his poor fitness is not going to be tolerated anymore.
 
In order to have a long run, you need to have a player who's good enough to last that long, but if you're going to waste all you energies on running rolling dancing and not working over the main aspects of game, there's very little to worry about in longer run then.

It's not about one or two players, the whole fitness thing seems greatly exaggerated since 2010/2011 when Waqar and now Mickey tried to hide behind this as excuse.




But its true for most of the times.

No it isn't.

Fans have spent the last 5 or 6 years crying incessantly about the need for "modern" cricket.

Modern cricket is built on players being fitter than they ever have been and training harder than their predecessors ever did.

You want players to run around and make diving stops in the field? They need to be quick and athletic.

You want players to stop dropping catches at the end of a day's play? They need to be fitter because your concentration levels drop dramatically if you are knackered.

You want players to be able to hit six after six into the crowd? They need to be strong enough to clear the boundary and be fit enough for your muscles to recover in time to smash the next ball, and the next ball and the ball after that.

You want players to keep turning ones into twos and keep the scoreboard ticking over? Guess what, they need to be fitter.


Anyone who says fitness isn't massively important doesn't have a bloody clue what they're talking about.
 
In 2017, Modern Day Sports NO, Not at All

Why? So that you can see more players losing concentration because they are too tired of pre-game fitness drill? Everyone got a limit you know? Why not utilize it where it matters the most?


Obviously the cricket skill needs to be good as well, or else you'd just have am XI of marathon runners because they're fit.

Inzimam could've had many more centuries had he been able to last that long on the field

"rising injury rate" is a myth, plus some players have put it on themselves by not already being fit, so now they have to do double the work now.

Any player who has a lethargic attitude for their fitness should be shown the door especially if they aren't even good... Like :uakmal

Regarding Rizwan, like I said, cricket skill comes first.

Your last paragraph answers the whole question.

Shouldn't it be 80% cricket skills and 20% fitness? We're going the opposite these days.

I will be more than happy to get that fat Inzi or Truck MoYo over fit Rizwan. "Could have been"s are hurting Pakistan. He "could have caught" a career reducing injury or any other issue while being fit and could have ended career much earlier. We need to live on current facts rather than could have beens.
 
The issue with UA is that he hasn't bought enough to the table with his batting for a while now therefore his poor fitness is not going to be tolerated anymore.

It's not about UA alone. Although we're not able to rectify his minor flaws due to the fact that our coaches are only concerned about 'fitness' because its easy to blame the player.
 
No it isn't.

Fans have spent the last 5 or 6 years crying incessantly about the need for "modern" cricket.

Modern cricket is built on players being fitter than they ever have been and training harder than their predecessors ever did.

You want players to run around and make diving stops in the field? They need to be quick and athletic.

You want players to stop dropping catches at the end of a day's play? They need to be fitter because your concentration levels drop dramatically if you are knackered.

You want players to be able to hit six after six into the crowd? They need to be strong enough to clear the boundary and be fit enough for your muscles to recover in time to smash the next ball, and the next ball and the ball after that.

You want players to keep turning ones into twos and keep the scoreboard ticking over? Guess what, they need to be fitter.


Anyone who says fitness isn't massively important doesn't have a bloody clue what they're talking about.

Fielding is a single aspect of game - out of 3. And its not that bad even now, its the other two departments where we got 0 match-winners right now. Because all we've done is making them run like horses instead of developing their games.

Modern cricket is not about running fast. Even a fat Inzi can hit sixes, its about bringing someone's game to that level. Changing his approach, mindset, game-plan, not making him run or jump like a cattle. You need to have an AWARE MIND to take singles, NOT FITNESS. Sarfraz is not among the fittest, yet he is the only one who's taking them. Your best player Misbah was fit, but he wasn't even much of a regular runner between wickets. Modern cricket is about having a modern approach, not fearing bowlers, innovating to score, not just running like wild horses.
 
It's not about UA alone. Although we're not able to rectify his minor flaws due to the fact that our coaches are only concerned about 'fitness' because its easy to blame the player.

Being a complete idiot is not a minor flaw.
 
When it comes to Pakistanis, yes.

Because Pakistani coaches are the only one who're into fitness thing instead of improving player's game and polishing their skills.
Although rest are little more self-aware/motivated about the goodies of being fit, but it doesn't mean that its the only thing that we need to be master at to 'Modernized' Pak Cricket. I'd rather have chubby Sharjeels and Sarfrazs instead of fit Rizwan or any other player.
 
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Because Pakistani coaches are the only one who're into fitness thing instead of improving player's game and polishing their skills.
Although rest are little more self-aware/motivated about the goodies of being fit, but it doesn't mean that its the only thing that we need to be master at to 'Modernized' Pak Cricket. I'd rather have chubby Sharjeels and Sarfrazs instead of fit Rizwan or any other player.
Had the coaches been into this "fitness thing" would the players be the worst in terms of fitness when it comes to most of the cricketing nations?

They're developing anything when it comes to coaching at all as they're not worthy of coaching in the first place as they're just being handed a free ride due to having contacts with certain people to get into the office and earn more than they're worth.
 
You can say that having less patience is one of his flaw which can be reduced by training. But how is running like horses going to solve that?

There are scientific studies that show a link between exercise and improved brain functions so yes, being fitter might make him less stupid.

Fielding is a single aspect of game - out of 3. And its not that bad even now, its the other two departments where we got 0 match-winners right now. Because all we've done is making them run like horses instead of developing their games.

Modern cricket is not about running fast. Even a fat Inzi can hit sixes, its about bringing someone's game to that level. Changing his approach, mindset, game-plan, not making him run or jump like a cattle. You need to have an AWARE MIND to take singles, NOT FITNESS. Sarfraz is not among the fittest, yet he is the only one who's taking them. Your best player Misbah was fit, but he wasn't even much of a regular runner between wickets. Modern cricket is about having a modern approach, not fearing bowlers, innovating to score, not just running like wild horses.

WTVHBxu.gif
 
Had the coaches been into this "fitness thing" would the players be the worst in terms of fitness when it comes to most of the cricketing nations?

They're developing anything when it comes to coaching at all as they're not worthy of coaching in the first place as they're just being handed a free ride due to having contacts with certain people to get into the office and earn more than they're worth.

That because they're expecting everyone to go against their nature which is never going to happen. And how can you say that its 'worst fitness' but not 'worst skills/training/mindset/approach'?

True, I believe that they're not worthy, thats why they are so much inclined towards blaming the 'fitness' instead of accepting that they're not able to polish player skills.
 
That because they're expecting everyone to go against their nature which is never going to happen. And how can you say that its 'worst fitness' but not 'worst skills/training/mindset/approach'?

True, I believe that they're not worthy, thats why they are so much inclined towards blaming the 'fitness' instead of accepting that they're not able to polish player skills.

As said they (coaches) aren't professionals so they won't produce professionals either. Already explained as to how they're doing it all and how they're in their jobs in the first place.
 
There are scientific studies that show a link between exercise and improved brain functions so yes, being fitter might make him less stupid.



WTVHBxu.gif

I can publish a research that sleeping out can improve brain functions, should it also be implemented then?
Its obvious that a there are mental-ways to improve brain functions rather than assuming that running or jumping would make it any better.

P.S. Many people are getting brain illnesses due to prolonged physical stress. Which includes Muhammad Ali, Lou Gehrig, Tom Ford, Don Revie etc.
 
As said they (coaches) aren't professionals so they won't produce professionals either. Already explained as to how they're doing it all and how they're in their jobs in the first place.

True, then why should all of us follow their excuses and start thinking of fitness as everything that a player requires.
 
Why? So that you can see more players losing concentration because they are too tired of pre-game fitness drill? Everyone got a limit you know? Why not utilize it where it matters the most?


Everyone has a limit but that limit is catered appropriately. These players do not have to undergo training like Kohli & Imran etc. There threshold is considered.



A player who is generally unfit from under 17 days is used to it wrt his batting and has flourished in this department since long despite being poor in field. Still he improved his fitness and fielding and his graph was going up.


While Umar Akmal was naturally well built, strong, flexible lean when he came onto the scene. Was swift between the wickets. Great in sprints during field.


When such a person gets overweight together with batting temperature issues than with lower energy, lower stamenna, lower endurance the batting temperament gets worsened further because you get tired more quickly, can't take quick singles and doubles and mind says hit out.



Haris Sohail had a phase when he used to score quality 30-40 runs and than get out. It was mainly because He ran out of gas fairly quickly and than get out softly. With improvement in fitness he started concentrating better hence longevity of innings improved.



Now fielding is key aspect and you cannot carry passengers in the field except one who thrives in batting or bowling especially if He is explosive batsman.


Lastly two equally overweight players might not have same scores in fitness Tests. Hence Tests are a better Judge.


Look at Imad ? He is carrying a tummy. Ideally it shouldn't be so but atleast in fitness tests He is managing somehow.



Shoaib Malik should be followed by others.
 
I can publish a research that sleeping out can improve brain functions, should it also be implemented then?

OK, then do it.

P.S. Many people are getting brain illnesses due to prolonged physical stress. Which includes Muhammad Ali, Lou Gehrig, Tom Ford, Don Revie etc.

xlq7ED9.jpg


Ali got punched in the head for a living and nobody knows what caused Gehrig's ALS, same for Don Revie.

Why are you so desperate to convince people that fitness is futile that you have to resort to making stuff up?

Oh my god :broad :broad :broad
[MENTION=57576]MRSN[/MENTION] get in here quickly! I found Umar Akmal's PP account!

qympCpO.gif
 
Everyone has a limit but that limit is catered appropriately. These players do not have to undergo training like Kohli & Imran etc. There threshold is considered.



A player who is generally unfit from under 17 days is used to it wrt his batting and has flourished in this department since long despite being poor in field. Still he improved his fitness and fielding and his graph was going up.


While Umar Akmal was naturally well built, strong, flexible lean when he came onto the scene. Was swift between the wickets. Great in sprints during field.


When such a person gets overweight together with batting temperature issues than with lower energy, lower stamenna, lower endurance the batting temperament gets worsened further because you get tired more quickly, can't take quick singles and doubles and mind says hit out.



Haris Sohail had a phase when he used to score quality 30-40 runs and than get out. It was mainly because He ran out of gas fairly quickly and than get out softly. With improvement in fitness he started concentrating better hence longevity of innings improved.



Now fielding is key aspect and you cannot carry passengers in the field except one who thrives in batting or bowling especially if He is explosive batsman.


Lastly two equally overweight players might not have same scores in fitness Tests. Hence Tests are a better Judge.


Look at Imad ? He is carrying a tummy. Ideally it shouldn't be so but atleast in fitness tests He is managing somehow.



Shoaib Malik should be followed by others.

Kohli's batting style requires him to be on the top of his fitness. But thats not the case with everyone.


Umar Akmal's failure got very little to do with his fitness level. Both Harris and Umar are mentally blocked and need right kind of mental training and guidance to get going.

You 'fit' Malik will be exposed by better teams. Its the lack of cricketing skills which will be missed then.

OK, then do it.



xlq7ED9.jpg


Ali got punched in the head for a living and nobody knows what caused Gehrig's ALS, same for Don Revie.

Why are you so desperate to convince people that fitness is futile that you have to resort to making stuff up?

Oh my god :broad :broad :broad

[MENTION=57576]MRSN[/MENTION] get in here quickly! I found Umar Akmal's PP account!

qympCpO.gif

If you pull the list of people suffering from ALS, MS, Parkinson etc. You'll know that most of them were either sports person or were doing some sort of intense work. If thats not th evidence, I dont know what is. You cant expect everyone to have 0-size with a 6-pack.

And I dont like UA. He could have been a handy attacking option though. Its about everyone. From Umar Gul to Ahmad Shahzad. They all suffered from this fitness thing.
 
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If you pull the list of people suffering from ALS, MS, Parkinson etc. You'll know that most of them were either sports person or were doing some sort of intense work. If thats not th evidence, I dont know what is. You cant expect everyone to have 0-size with a 6-pack.

That's not how real life works. You're the one making the claim, you have to provide evidence to back it up.
 
Why? So that you can see more players losing concentration because they are too tired of pre-game fitness drill? Everyone got a limit you know? Why not utilize it where it matters the most?




Shouldn't it be 80% cricket skills and 20% fitness? We're going the opposite these days.

I will be more than happy to get that fat Inzi or Truck MoYo over fit Rizwan. "Could have been"s are hurting Pakistan. He "could have caught" a career reducing injury or any other issue while being fit and could have ended career much earlier. We need to live on current facts rather than could have beens.

Lol the main focus is still cricket skill, hence why we don't have an XI filled with Rizwans and Anwar Alis.

I'm happy to take the fat inzi too, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have improved his fitness. Your 'career reducing' injuries are a myth, you have no proof that being more fit has more injuries.
 
If Inzamam was fitter he wouldn't have gotten Run Out as many times as he did and helped his team win more matches.

Fit fielders cause many a turnaround at crucial moments.

Fitness is not overrated.
 
If any thing fitness is under-rated especially in the modern game. It's also a good indicator of discipline and commitment both individually and as a unit.
 
Imagine you're a student. Is preparation for exams overrated? If your answer is yes, so is fitness overrated in sports.
 
People are missing the bigger point. Fitness is a measure of professionalism for an athlete. An athlete that is not fit lacks professionalism in his craft. He is like a doctor that's too lazy to study, a chef who lacks knife skills, a pharmacist who doesn't know medication dosages, a journalist who doesn't get all the facts before publishing a story, etc. It doesn't say anything about one's skill or talent (see Inzamam-ul-Haq), but says a lot about ones dedication to their craft.
 
Nope it isn't, and in fact is very important for a player to give his best in any situation.
 
Nope. It has been underrated in Pak for long time. Modern day cricket needs top fitness. Management doing right thing
 
OP shouldn't be allowed to cry when pak players drop catches.

OP is like that parent who encourages kids to watch TV instead of studying yet when he fails in exams, beats him up.
 
Umer Akmal is our most agile fielder and catcher. Dont know what kind of rubbish fielding tests pcb is taking which Sharjeel used to pass but UA is failing? absolutely rubbish!!
 
Inzy himself reached hit his batting peak in 2004 when he lost lots of weight.

Good fitness is mandatory in modern cricket.

BTW, has everyone forgotten the outcome of the 2003 World Cup and that was the most star studded Pakistani team in a World Cup.
 
Inzi got slim in 2003 WC but had a nightmare wc. In 2005/2006 he was not fully fit but scored lot of test hundreds. UA never sounded unfit while playing, he looks very agile in fielding and never drop catches. Dont know how come he failed the tests that Safraz and Sharjeel passed
 
We want mores "is" than "could have been". Don't you think that when a person is playing much cricket, there's lesser need of worrying about fitness as the person will auto-sync with ability to run or bowl with time? Moving freely may be the only good point, but are you willing to sacrifice Inzaman-quality batsman for Rizwan like free-mover?




I would say this for any player, from Irfan, Ajmal to Umar or Wahab.

Yes, its a trade of, that's why I used the word over-rated. Maybe few players really require such sort of fitness, but when a person is playing same sport every day, fitness is not much of an issue, his game will be however.


I'm not saying I would swap rizwan for inzi level batsmen. I'm saying fitness is important. Bad inzi taken fitness more seriously he would have been better then he was.
 
Inzi got slim in 2003 WC but had a nightmare wc. In 2005/2006 he was not fully fit but scored lot of test hundreds. UA never sounded unfit while playing, he looks very agile in fielding and never drop catches. Dont know how come he failed the tests that Safraz and Sharjeel passed

Normally UA is a very fit and agile and dependable fielder but on the tour to Australia he was clearly struggling in the outfield and it was clear that his love handles were a problem. He hasn't even bothered to lose weight since then and he justifies the excess weight by saying it gives him more power with his big shots which is rubbish.
 
Obviously the cricket skill needs to be good as well, or else you'd just have am XI of marathon runners because they're fit.

Inzimam could've had many more centuries had he been able to last that long on the field

"rising injury rate" is a myth, plus some players have put it on themselves by not already being fit, so now they have to do double the work now.

Any player who has a lethargic attitude for their fitness should be shown the door especially if they aren't even good... Like :uakmal

Regarding Rizwan, like I said, cricket skill comes first.

Your last paragraph answers the whole question.

Also what people don't realize is how much fielding has improved since Inzamam's days. Fielders are like lightning today. So if fielders are faster, batsmen need to be faster between the wickets too. Every aspect of cricket has become faster and fitter.
 
P.S. Many people are getting brain illnesses due to prolonged physical stress. Which includes Muhammad Ali, Lou Gehrig, Tom Ford, Don Revie etc.

Dude boxers and fighters get illness because of direct hits to the head and use of steroids. Don Revie, a 61 year old getting ill is a surprise to you?
 
I don't know why the OP is making such a big distinction between cricketing skills and fitness when fitness augments your cricketing skills. Its not either/or.

A fitter player will have greater levels of stamina and endurance, ensuring they can stay at the crease for longer instead of huffing and puffing after a 20 or 30, run hard between the wickets for 1s and 2s, hit boundaries on a regular basis instead of getting winded after one or two or bowl longer spells.

A fitter player will also have a longer career - look at Younis and Misbah who even past the age of 40 left their younger teammates in the dust in fitness tests. If Yousuf was fitter he could've gone on for another 1-2 years but was constantly injured near the end of his career.
 
Lol this is like claiming that you can write a post graduate literary research paper with the vocabulary of a 5th grader :facepalm:

It....will.......never......happen......
 
Letting unfit cricketers play promotes and encourages more players to be less concerned about fitness and therefore, it'll lead to a team of a bunch of fatties.
 
This is the dumbest thread of all time, no surprise its an umar akmal fan.
 
In cricket, certainly fitness is the secondary aspect, not the primary thing like in football. Fitness is important but that doesn't define and differentiate between cricketers. In football, the biggest difference often between amateurs, professionals is fitness.
 
That's not how real life works. You're the one making the claim, you have to provide evidence to back it up.

I am asking you to see the data and get evidence as I've seen and got that fact multiple times.

Lol the main focus is still cricket skill, hence why we don't have an XI filled with Rizwans and Anwar Alis.

I'm happy to take the fat inzi too, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have improved his fitness. Your 'career reducing' injuries are a myth, you have no proof that being more fit has more injuries.



But we are trying to turn Sharjeels into Rizwans.

This is just an assumption, there's a bigger chance of him falling to injury with that.

If Inzamam was fitter he wouldn't have gotten Run Out as many times as he did and helped his team win more matches.

Fit fielders cause many a turnaround at crucial moments.

Fitness is not overrated.


He also might not be able to time the ball that good then.

True, fitness can provide edge when both teams are at 99% efficiency. But for a team not even at 30%, focusing only over this seems silly.



If any thing fitness is under-rated especially in the modern game. It's also a good indicator of discipline and commitment both individually and as a unit.


How? I would prefer to have a player who's willing to improve his game instead of being fit/disciplined.


Imagine you're a student. Is preparation for exams overrated? If your answer is yes, so is fitness overrated in sports.


Imagine if students exhaust his time and mind over covering a single chapter out of 10, how can you expect him to score good? That's how much we're pulling fitness instead of game improvement these days.
 
I am asking you to see the data and get evidence as I've seen and got that fact multiple times.

You want to win a debate by asking the person you're debating with to prove your point for you?

5euu9FF.gif


You're the one who made the claim, you're the one who has seen the evidence "multiple times". How am I expected to see the data when I don't know what I'm looking for?

So just provide us with a link to the evidence that being fit causes multiple sclerosis and Parkinson's disease.

Cheers.
 
People are missing the bigger point. Fitness is a measure of professionalism for an athlete. An athlete that is not fit lacks professionalism in his craft. He is like a doctor that's too lazy to study, a chef who lacks knife skills, a pharmacist who doesn't know medication dosages, a journalist who doesn't get all the facts before publishing a story, etc. It doesn't say anything about one's skill or talent (see Inzamam-ul-Haq), but says a lot about ones dedication to their craft.

Had it been football, I might have agreed with you. But cricket is not much fitness demanding. and Professionalism is about improving your overall game, while we're only focused over fitness.

Nope it isn't, and in fact is very important for a player to give his best in any situation.

HOW?

Nope. It has been underrated in Pak for long time. Modern day cricket needs top fitness. Management doing right thing

Correction! It hasn't been rated in Pakistan previously, now its over-rated. It doesn't, it still needs application of skills.


OP shouldn't be allowed to cry when pak players drop catches.

OP is like that parent who encourages kids to watch TV instead of studying yet when he fails in exams, beats him up.


There's something called fielding/catching practice. I cant understand the mantra of run like horses and assuming that it would solve every single problem that our team faces.

Umer Akmal is our most agile fielder and catcher. Dont know what kind of rubbish fielding tests pcb is taking which Sharjeel used to pass but UA is failing? absolutely rubbish!!


Yes, he's among the better ones. Even if he has gained weight, he's not as worse as Sarfraz or Sharjeel. but again, wrong parameters to judge a cricketer.


Inzy himself reached hit his batting peak in 2004 when he lost lots of weight.

Good fitness is mandatory in modern cricket.

BTW, has everyone forgotten the outcome of the 2003 World Cup and that was the most star studded Pakistani team in a World Cup.


You haven't seen his pre or post innings? Right? he was a fat bun when he scored against BD, India etc.

2003's worldcup had out-of-form over-aged players, much like Misbah in AUS. They were 'fit' than many of current Pakistani players, atleast much more than Sehwag.

Inzi got slim in 2003 WC but had a nightmare wc. In 2005/2006 he was not fully fit but scored lot of test hundreds. UA never sounded unfit while playing, he looks very agile in fielding and never drop catches. Dont know how come he failed the tests that Safraz and Sharjeel passed

That's because fitness is a wrong parameter. It should not hold more than 20% of player's weight-age.

I'm not saying I would swap rizwan for inzi level batsmen. I'm saying fitness is important. Bad inzi taken fitness more seriously he would have been better then he was.

A bit important, not much? Again, those are assumptions, he would have hurt himself in the process. Tell me a single example where better fitness has improved any Pakistani player?



Normally UA is a very fit and agile and dependable fielder but on the tour to Australia he was clearly struggling in the outfield and it was clear that his love handles were a problem. He hasn't even bothered to lose weight since then and he justifies the excess weight by saying it gives him more power with his big shots which is rubbish.

True, he ain't serious. That's why he is not concerned about anything, why pointing fitness alone?


Also what people don't realize is how much fielding has improved since Inzamam's days. Fielders are like lightning today. So if fielders are faster, batsmen need to be faster between the wickets too. Every aspect of cricket has become faster and fitter.

True, but one need to realize that the game is still decided with remaining two aspects where fitness is not that important factor.


Dude boxers and fighters get illness because of direct hits to the head and use of steroids. Don Revie, a 61 year old getting ill is a surprise to you?

Exercising excessively can hurt same parts of body. and It doesn't, but sportsmen getting faulty nervous system does surprise me. Even I myself has lost focus after training hard for months.


Lmao fitness isn't overrated at all.In fact,it's quite underrated especially in Pakistan.

It was, at that time when players were not even willing to slide. Its over-rated these days.


I don't know why the OP is making such a big distinction between cricketing skills and fitness when fitness augments your cricketing skills. Its not either/or.

A fitter player will have greater levels of stamina and endurance, ensuring they can stay at the crease for longer instead of huffing and puffing after a 20 or 30, run hard between the wickets for 1s and 2s, hit boundaries on a regular basis instead of getting winded after one or two or bowl longer spells.

A fitter player will also have a longer career - look at Younis and Misbah who even past the age of 40 left their younger teammates in the dust in fitness tests. If Yousuf was fitter he could've gone on for another 1-2 years but was constantly injured near the end of his career.


Does it matter if Rizwan stays playable at 40? or it was about the skills/game of Younis and Misbah while fitness contributing a small factor.


Lol this is like claiming that you can write a post graduate literary research paper with the vocabulary of a 5th grader :facepalm:

It....will.......never......happen......


You're free to provide any evidence backing negative-claims for cricket.
I can surely write a paper without knowing tech terms, but I can never write it without knowing how to write.


Letting unfit cricketers play promotes and encourages more players to be less concerned about fitness and therefore, it'll lead to a team of a bunch of fatties.

There's something called maintaining balance instead of over-rating fitness as every cure to the problem that Pak Cricket is facing.


This is the dumbest thread of all time, no surprise its an umar akmal fan.

I am not anymore, although he could have been effective in otherwise a tuk tuk squad.


In cricket, certainly fitness is the secondary aspect, not the primary thing like in football. Fitness is important but that doesn't define and differentiate between cricketers. In football, the biggest difference often between amateurs, professionals is fitness.

True, thats what I meant. Cricket is not that fitness demanding. It requires more focus, longer span of patience and concentration, technique and plan along with dynamic ability to re-work over that plan. While we're only crazy about fitness because our incompetent coaches can't improve a single player hence fitness can be a decent escape-excuse for them.
 
You want to win a debate by asking the person you're debating with to prove your point for you?

5euu9FF.gif


You're the one who made the claim, you're the one who has seen the evidence "multiple times". How am I expected to see the data when I don't know what I'm looking for?

So just provide us with a link to the evidence that being fit causes multiple sclerosis and Parkinson's disease.

Cheers.

https://health.spectator.co.uk/muhammad-ali-was-boxing-the-cause-of-his-parkinsons/
https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/09/03/can-exercise-cause-a-l-s/?_r=0
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/...y-connection-between-football-and-als/488681/
http://www.mdedge.com/neurologyreviews/article/72547/rare-diseases/head-trauma-may-lead-als-disorder (Long term jerking of head while running can be classified as head trauma)
http://www.everydayhealth.com/hs/multiple-sclerosis-pictures/seven-athletes-with-ms-who-kick-butt/



If you talk about pure research:
"Several studies have demonstrated increased risk of ALS among football or soccer players,111–114 other athletes,115 and individuals who engage in vigorous physical activity,116 but inconsistent results have also been reported.117–120 Strenuous physical activity, repeated head injuries, use of illicit performance-enhancing drugs, or chemicals used to treat football fields have all been discussed as potential explanations for such risk elevations.111,121 Chronic traumatic encephalopathy, a newly defined neurodegenerative disease, often resulting from repeated head injuries, has been proposed as the underlying reason or the “correct” diagnosis for ALS cases observed among professional athletes and perhaps also among military veterans.122 Different levels of physical exercise (professional versus recreational) may have very different biological effects on neurodegeneration. This is in line with previous findings of an increased risk of ALS among professional football players,111–114 although not among high school players.119 Similarly, a large European case-control study showed a 51% lower risk of ALS for organized sport, but a 59% higher risk of ALS for professional sport.123 Further efforts to disentangle the different exposure patterns involved in professional sports as compared with recreational sports will be needed to better understand these findings. Although the hypothesis that athleticism contributes to ALS is intriguing, caution should be exercised in interpreting these findings, given the fact that the vast majority are based on small numbers of ALS cases."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4334292/

Enough or should I paste more?
 
You want to win a debate by asking the person you're debating with to prove your point for you?

5euu9FF.gif


You're the one who made the claim, you're the one who has seen the evidence "multiple times". How am I expected to see the data when I don't know what I'm looking for?

So just provide us with a link to the evidence that being fit causes multiple sclerosis and Parkinson's disease.

Cheers.


and I myself is experiencing muscle twitching after exercising for months (so called belly control), its been more than an year. No cure or causes discovered till now. Its scary.
 
@OP this is exactly the same mentality that allows losers like Kamran Akmal make the team.
 
https://health.spectator.co.uk/muhammad-ali-was-boxing-the-cause-of-his-parkinsons/
https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/09/03/can-exercise-cause-a-l-s/?_r=0
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/...y-connection-between-football-and-als/488681/
http://www.mdedge.com/neurologyreviews/article/72547/rare-diseases/head-trauma-may-lead-als-disorder (Long term jerking of head while running can be classified as head trauma)
http://www.everydayhealth.com/hs/multiple-sclerosis-pictures/seven-athletes-with-ms-who-kick-butt/



If you talk about pure research:
"Several studies have demonstrated increased risk of ALS among football or soccer players,111–114 other athletes,115 and individuals who engage in vigorous physical activity,116 but inconsistent results have also been reported.117–120 Strenuous physical activity, repeated head injuries, use of illicit performance-enhancing drugs, or chemicals used to treat football fields have all been discussed as potential explanations for such risk elevations.111,121 Chronic traumatic encephalopathy, a newly defined neurodegenerative disease, often resulting from repeated head injuries, has been proposed as the underlying reason or the “correct” diagnosis for ALS cases observed among professional athletes and perhaps also among military veterans.122 Different levels of physical exercise (professional versus recreational) may have very different biological effects on neurodegeneration. This is in line with previous findings of an increased risk of ALS among professional football players,111–114 although not among high school players.119 Similarly, a large European case-control study showed a 51% lower risk of ALS for organized sport, but a 59% higher risk of ALS for professional sport.123 Further efforts to disentangle the different exposure patterns involved in professional sports as compared with recreational sports will be needed to better understand these findings. Although the hypothesis that athleticism contributes to ALS is intriguing, caution should be exercised in interpreting these findings, given the fact that the vast majority are based on small numbers of ALS cases."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4334292/

Enough or should I paste more?

OK, let's go through it one by one.

1)
The 64,000 dollar question remains — did boxing cause Ali’s Parkinson’s disease? The short answer is that no one is able to say, but the longer one is that it may well have done so because of the length of time he continued to box way past his prime.

No proof of anything at all, it's the writer asking a question without providing an answer. And again, Ali got punched in the head for a living.

2)
They then compared answers from the people with A.L.S. to those of healthier people.

The results should reassure those of us who exercise. The numbers showed that physical activity — whether at work, in sports or during exercise — did not increase people’s risk of developing A.L.S. Instead, exercise actually appeared to offer some protection against the disease. Even pro athletes showed no heightened risk, although they represented such a tiny subset of the patients with A.L.S. that firm conclusions cannot be drawn, the researchers say.

Literally the opposite of what you claim. Well done.

3)
The head trauma hypothesis is bolstered by the fact that veterans appear to be more likely to develop ALS, as are soccer players. (With that sport, head-butting might be the culprit.) Other studies have found simply that concussions seem to be a risk factor for ALS, regardless of whether one is a professional athlete.

As tempting as it might be to blame yet another brain ailment on football, though, it’s not a perfectly satisfying explanation. For one thing, 40 percent of ALS patients are women. And other studies have found no increased risk of ALS among high-school football players or in rugby players.

So ALS might be more common amongst people who sustain brain trauma but it's not as simple as that and there's definitely no claim of a link between exercise/fitness and ALS.

4) A study performed on American football players, who we already know turn their brains into swiss cheese every time they train and play because that's the nature of the sport. It's got nothing to do with fitness or exercise and everything to do with literal brain damage.

5) It's just a list of a few professional athletes who have MS, it has literally no evidence that MS and fitness are linked. It's like me naming Ntini, Gayle, Chris Jordan, Rabada and Shannon Gabriel and using that to argue that playing cricket turns you into a black person.

From the research bit that you pasted at the end:

Although the hypothesis that athleticism contributes to ALS is intriguing, caution should be exercised in interpreting these findings, given the fact that the vast majority are based on small numbers of ALS cases."

and from the conclusion:

In contrast, although we generally agree that there is substantial impact of non-genetic factors on the etiology of ALS, so far little progress has been made in identifying these factors with some degree of certainty. An improved knowledge of non-genetic risk factors for ALS, hand-in-hand with our increasing knowledge of ALS genetics, should prove more fruitful in deciphering the causes of this devastating disease and eventually providing a cure.

They literally said they don't know what causes ALS.

Come on bruv.

RqdtSwg.gif


and I myself is experiencing muscle twitching after exercising for months (so called belly control), its been more than an year. No cure or causes discovered till now. Its scary.

Sorry to hear that, I hope everything turns out to be OK.
 
[MENTION=142795]zyrus[/MENTION] the players are exposed to world class facilities,physios and trainers with data available for each and everything,one cannot compared an average person to them.

They get paid to be match fit,LOI has evolved it requires quick running between wickets and lightening fielding.
 
OK, let's go through it one by one.

1)

No proof of anything at all, it's the writer asking a question without providing an answer. And again, Ali got punched in the head for a living.

2)

Literally the opposite of what you claim. Well done.

3)

So ALS might be more common amongst people who sustain brain trauma but it's not as simple as that and there's definitely no claim of a link between exercise/fitness and ALS.

4) A study performed on American football players, who we already know turn their brains into swiss cheese every time they train and play because that's the nature of the sport. It's got nothing to do with fitness or exercise and everything to do with literal brain damage.

5) It's just a list of a few professional athletes who have MS, it has literally no evidence that MS and fitness are linked. It's like me naming Ntini, Gayle, Chris Jordan, Rabada and Shannon Gabriel and using that to argue that playing cricket turns you into a black person.

From the research bit that you pasted at the end:



and from the conclusion:



They literally said they don't know what causes ALS.

Come on bruv.

RqdtSwg.gif




Sorry to hear that, I hope everything turns out to be OK.


Can't you see the overwhelming evidence? Why there's no question of singing or painting being associated with these?


[MENTION=142795]zyrus[/MENTION] the players are exposed to world class facilities,physios and trainers with data available for each and everything,one cannot compared an average person to them.

They get paid to be match fit,LOI has evolved it requires quick running between wickets and lightening fielding.


I am yet to see any Pakistani player who's suffering regularly from run-outs. They cant even do the basics right, it got more to do with game skills rather than fitness.
 
He is what, 5' 5'' inches tall and weighed in at 91 KG (200.621 lbs) recently, his ideal weight should be no more than 149 lbs and he is overweight starting at 150 lbs.

At 180 lbs, he is considered obese, as in seriously overweight and at risk of having some serious diseases like sugar, disabetes etc.

This also translates in to serious performance issues when running, fielding, catching etc.

This is a professional athlete in 2017 with double chins and all LOL
 

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He is what, 5' 5'' inches tall and weighed in at 91 KG (200.621 lbs) recently, his ideal weight should be no more than 149 lbs and he is overweight starting at 150 lbs.

At 180 lbs, he is considered obese, as in seriously overweight and at risk of having some serious diseases like sugar, disabetes etc.

This also translates in to serious performance issues when running, fielding, catching etc.

This is a professional athlete in 2017 with double chins and all LOL

in his defense:
- thats an unflattering angle: he looks better when photographed from outer space
- its all the promade in his hair which is adding about 10 kilos.
 
Lack of athleticism in our culture is the reason we could not hold on to Hockey, in cricket we are not producing fast bowler, because athleticism has gone down even more so, and other cultures have double down on those attributes....

As hockey become power sports, Asians did not get along with the changes and left behind...Now Cricket is going through same transition. Power and athleticism in many ways is premium skill to be elite in Cricket, we are struggling to find one Batsman who can hit 145 clicks at 145 SR or one bowler who can bowl at Avg pace of 145, where as other teams have multiple players with those attribute, we stand no chance against such teams. These skills are bench mark of top teams. They can only come with Power and athleticism is core part of society and team culture. You can only build those skills on top of such a platform... And here we have Einstein who is arguing let go of both, why not just play EA Cricket :acp:
 
Can't you see the overwhelming evidence? Why there's no question of singing or painting being associated with these?

"There might be a link but we're not sure" is NOT overwhelming evidence.
 
Lack of athleticism in our culture is the reason we could not hold on to Hockey, in cricket we are not producing fast bowler, because athleticism has gone down even more so, and other cultures have double down on those attributes....

As hockey become power sports, Asians did not get along with the changes and left behind...Now Cricket is going through same transition. Power and athleticism in many ways is premium skill to be elite in Cricket, we are struggling to find one Batsman who can hit 145 clicks at 145 SR or one bowler who can bowl at Avg pace of 145, where as other teams have multiple players with those attribute, we stand no chance against such teams. These skills are bench mark of top teams. They can only come with Power and athleticism is core part of society and team culture. You can only build those skills on top of such a platform... And here we have Einstein who is arguing let go of both, why not just play EA Cricket :acp:

No, its because we tend to follow the trendy sport and can't keep long with a single sport. Cricket is being left by the new generation because its too mainstream in Pakistan.

I would love to have couple of 130sh Asifs instead of few 145+ scatterguns without skills.

"There might be a link but we're not sure" is NOT overwhelming evidence.

There are evidences, athletes and military men who've been suffering from this. Just because they're not able to equate it doesn't mean that it does not exist at all. Would you like to risk yourself with an action where more than half of the victims were associated with similar action?
 
In previous eras fast bowlers would try to stop the ball with their feet, fitness was an afterthought. Cricket has changed now, fitness is important, in fact it is key.
 
There are evidences, athletes and military men who've been suffering from this. Just because they're not able to equate it doesn't mean that it does not exist at all. Would you like to risk yourself with an action where more than half of the victims were associated with similar action?

You don't seem to understand the things you're presenting as evidence.

First of all, the research CLEARLY states that they don't know what causes ALS.

Secondly, 50% higher risk is not the same thing as 50% of ALS sufferers.

Third:

Workers in various occupations with seemingly disparate exposures have been reported to be potentially at altered risk of ALS, including athletes, carpenters, cockpit workers, construction workers, electrical workers, farm workers, hairdressers, house painters, laboratory technicians, leather workers, machine assemblers, medical service workers, military workers, nurses, power production plant workers, precision metal workers, programmers, rubber workers, shepherds, tobacco workers, veterinarians, and welders.

Better get rid of nurses, medical professionals, computer programmers, farmers and anybody who works with wood, leather or machines too.

Finally:

Just because they're not able to equate it doesn't mean that it does not exist at all

Are you even reading what you're typing? This is the kind of leap in logic people make when they're trying to convince themselves the Loch Ness Monster is real. Just because nobody has found any definitive proof that there is a giant dinosaur in this lake doesn't mean that Nessie isn't real!

Why give us links to research when you're going to ignore their conclusions?
 
A bit important, not much? Again, those are assumptions, he would have hurt himself in the process. Tell me a single example where better fitness has improved any Pakistani player?

Hasan Ali: came in last year bowling his highest around 140, hit 147 clicks in WI.
 
No...Fitness is not overrated, it's a requisite these days. Half of the runs are scored via running between the wickets and a quarter of total score can be saved by good fielding. When we say good fielding, it's not only stopping the ball coming your way, it's chasing down the ball, cutting the boundaries, diving etc.

Fat and unfit players should not be allowed in domestic tournaments, forget about International matches.
 
To everyone on this thread who said fitness was not a big deal in cricket, now you see the difference between ourselves and the indians. Fitness is akin to professionalism in cricket. It affects your performance in all aspects of the game. Taking singles, fielding, big shots, not breaking down while bowling, all that has to do with fitness. And we just are miles behind the big teams. Coaching team should take the blame for that. It's their job to prepare the players and make sure to select those who are fit. Once they are on the field then its up to the players to perform, but preparation and fitness is the responsibility of coaching team
 
To everyone on this thread who said fitness was not a big deal in cricket, now you see the difference between ourselves and the indians. Fitness is akin to professionalism in cricket. It affects your performance in all aspects of the game. Taking singles, fielding, big shots, not breaking down while bowling, all that has to do with fitness. And we just are miles behind the big teams. Coaching team should take the blame for that. It's their job to prepare the players and make sure to select those who are fit. Once they are on the field then its up to the players to perform, but preparation and fitness is the responsibility of coaching team

Cant blame the coaches, the coaches cannot baby sit the players off the field. Once the players leave training camp, their training and eating habits are on them.
 
To everyone on this thread who said fitness was not a big deal in cricket, now you see the difference between ourselves and the indians. Fitness is akin to professionalism in cricket. It affects your performance in all aspects of the game. Taking singles, fielding, big shots, not breaking down while bowling, all that has to do with fitness. And we just are miles behind the big teams. Coaching team should take the blame for that. It's their job to prepare the players and make sure to select those who are fit. Once they are on the field then its up to the players to perform, but preparation and fitness is the responsibility of coaching team

Completely agreed! If nothing else you have the ability to convert singles into doubles, throw the ball faster towards the stumps etc!
 
To everyone on this thread who said fitness was not a big deal in cricket, now you see the difference between ourselves and the indians. Fitness is akin to professionalism in cricket. It affects your performance in all aspects of the game. Taking singles, fielding, big shots, not breaking down while bowling, all that has to do with fitness. And we just are miles behind the big teams. Coaching team should take the blame for that. It's their job to prepare the players and make sure to select those who are fit. Once they are on the field then its up to the players to perform, but preparation and fitness is the responsibility of coaching team


Game skills got very little to do with fitness. We do those fitness drills, its the lack of game skills which has left us behind.
 
Cant blame the coaches, the coaches cannot baby sit the players off the field. Once the players leave training camp, their training and eating habits are on them.

This would be true of professional players, but our players are not professional, and hence why this is even a discussion. An athlete who is professional knows that fitness is just a basic requirement to succeed. But in Pakistan even this basic fact is doubted. So when this is the mentality that the players approach fitness with, it's essential the coaches correct them and correct the mentality. At the minimum, players like the Akmal brothers who take fitness for granted should never be allowed back into the team so kudos to coach/selectors for sending him back
 
Game skills got very little to do with fitness. We do those fitness drills, its the lack of game skills which has left us behind.

This post shows you don't understand the definition or value of fitness. Sadly, players share your mentality and the results are there for everyone to see
 
Game skills got very little to do with fitness. We do those fitness drills, its the lack of game skills which has left us behind.

If Amir was fit, he would have bowled two more overs which might have made some difference
 
This post shows you don't understand the definition or value of fitness. Sadly, players share your mentality and the results are there for everyone to see

The problem is they are not doing anything at all, not even improving their game a bit. Even Butt from 2007 batted way better than them. Its not just fitness. Our youngest guys dropped dollies of Yuvi/Kohli. That was due to lack of skills, not fitness levels.


If Amir was fit, he would have bowled two more overs which might have made some difference

True, but some. Not all. Btw he was overused. He would have got into trouble even if he was fitter.
 
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