Is Glenn McGrath the most successful Test bowler ever?

[vandokkum]

563 wickets, average of 21 strike rate 51.9 and economy rate of 2.49 .Taking into the number of wickets, quality of opposition (no minnows) as well as average, economy and strike rate, I don't think anyone else fits the bill as well as him. He has the 4th highest number of wickets in test history, most wickets by a fast bowler, best strike rate and 2nd best average in the 400 club and pretty much all his wickets were taken against top teams. His record against the best batsmen of his era is remarkable.

 

[mithun_minhas]

What are his averages in India, Pak and UAE compared to his averages in England, SA and Aus?

 

[vandokkum]

What are his averages in India, Pak and UAE compared to his averages in England, SA and Aus?

Sorry to disappoint the haters but he averages 21 in India, 31 in Pakistan and 7.40 in UAE . Hardly a failure.

 

[mithun_minhas]

Sorry to disappoint the haters but he averages 21 in India, 31 in Pakistan and 7.40 in UAE . Hardly a failure.

Not a hater man.

Just asking the obvious question. The true mark of a fast bowler can be measured by his averages in Subcontinent and UAE.

If McGrath has managed 21 in India and 7.4 in UAE, he should be up there with the best.

Its incredible that a trundler has achieved so much. What a bowler he is. I have seen McGrath a lot and he does not even swing the ball much. All he does is target the 4th or 5th stump outside off and bowl consistently over there at an almost derivable length. His height enabled him to get the extra bounce and Healy/Gilly did the rest.

 

[Saqs]

Re: Is Glenn Mcgrath the most successful test bowler ever?

He played in the UAE?

He is probably the most successful bowler I've seen in my time.

Not the best for me but definitely the most successful when you take into account the stats.

Basically whenever he opened the bowling against us I was expecting us to be 2-3 down in the first 10 overs.

Although there will always be an argument against him because he had Warne on his side. Which is an argument I don't agree with but people will still argue that.

 

[James]

One of the three best seam bowlers that I have seen since I started watching in 97 - ahead of Donald and behind Steyn.

 

[vandokkum]

He played in the UAE?

He is probably the most successful bowler I've seen in my time.

Not the best for me but definitely the most successful when you take into account the stats.

Basically whenever he opened the bowling against us I was expecting us to be 2-3 down in the first 10 overs.

Although there will always be an argument against him because he had Warne on his side. Which is an argument I don't agree with but people will still argue that.

I remember he played in the embarassing 53 and 59 all out match

 

[Mamoon]

He is a strong contender for the most boring bowler as well.

 

[Mamoon]

I would put him behind Ambrose and Steyn among the bowlers I've personally witnessed. In Tests of course.

 

[ahamedirshad123]

Anderson?

 

[Saqs]

Re: Is Glenn Mcgrath the most successful test bowler ever?

He is a strong contender for the most boring bowler as well.

Most boring?

Not if you enjoy the nuances of what he did and how he ensnared batsmen into his trap time and time again. There was a magnetism to it.

Most boring bowler ever would be a guy who just runs and does nothing with the ball and nothing with his head.

 

[Mamoon]

Most boring?

Not if you enjoy the nuances of what he did and how he ensnared batsmen into his trap time and time again. There was a magnetism to it.

Most boring bowler ever would be a guy who just runs and does nothing with the ball and nothing with his head.

He was too mechanical for my liking.

 

[shean1990]

no , murali is the greatest bowler of all times

 

[Mamoon]

no , murali is the greatest bowler of all times

Also with the cleanest action.

 

[mithun_minhas]

I have never seen Tendu dominate McGrath.

I may be wrong, but McGrath usually gets Tendu whenever India played Aus. The bounce that McGrath used to get was probably too much for Tendu?

 

[Robert]

563 wickets, average of 21 strike rate 51.9 and economy rate of 2.49 .Taking into the number of wickets, quality of opposition (no minnows) as well as average, economy and strike rate, I don't think anyone else fits the bill as well as him. He has the 4th highest number of wickets in test history, most wickets by a fast bowler, best strike rate and 2nd best average in the 400 club and pretty much all his wickets were taken against top teams. His record against the best batsmen of his era is remarkable.

No minnows? Didn't he bowl at BAN and ZIM ?

Certainly up there with all the real top men - Lindwall, Trueman, Lillee, Imran, Hadlee and Marshall - though I'd still put Maco fractionally ahead of the rest.

 

[Saqs]

Re: Is Glenn Mcgrath the most successful test bowler ever?

I have never seen Tendu dominate McGrath.

I may be wrong, but McGrath usually gets Tendu whenever India played Aus. The bounce that McGrath used to get was probably too much for Tendu?

Never seen Lara made to look like such a walking wicket except when Pidge bowled to him. He had him worked out so thoroughly it was astonishing.

 

[zabalestmsm]

Is Glenn Mcgrath the most successful test bowler ever?

Definitely he is! The most successful Test fast bowler!

 

[Scrolln]

I have never seen Tendu dominate McGrath.

I may be wrong, but McGrath usually gets Tendu whenever India played Aus. The bounce that McGrath used to get was probably too much for Tendu?

I've seen Tendulkar treat McGrath treat like an off spinner at times, but he would often get over excited and lose a wicket to McGrath playing stupid slogs ala 2003 WC finals. But McGrath had the better of Tendulkar more often than it was the other way around.

I would rate him as among the greatest ever just because of the way he made two of the greatest batsmen of all time, Lara and Tendulkar, struggle almost at will, at times.

 

[Mamoon]

I have never seen Tendu dominate McGrath.

I may be wrong, but McGrath usually gets Tendu whenever India played Aus. The bounce that McGrath used to get was probably too much for Tendu?

Never seen Lara made to look like such a walking wicket except when Pidge bowled to him. He had him worked out so thoroughly it was astonishing.

The sheer relentless accuracy of his meant that there was absolutely no margin for error, especially for someone like Lara who had the knack of going for the hollywood shot.

 

[vandokkum]

No minnows? Didn't he bowl at BAN and ZIM ?

Certainly up there with all the real top men - Lindwall, Trueman, Lillee, Imran, Hadlee and Marshall - though I'd still put Maco fractionally ahead of the rest.

He only played couple of matches against Ban/ Zimb

 

[Abid Z]

Not a hater man.

Just asking the obvious question. The true mark of a fast bowler can be measured by his averages in Subcontinent and UAE.

If McGrath has managed 21 in India and 7.4 in UAE, he should be up there with the best.

Its incredible that a trundler has achieved so much. What a bowler he is. I have seen McGrath a lot and he does not even swing the ball much. All he does is target the 4th or 5th stump outside off and bowl consistently over there at an almost derivable length. His height enabled him to get the extra bounce and Healy/Gilly did the rest.

He was not a trundler, was safely Mid 80's which is not a trundlers pace but i know what you mean he was hardly express. He wasn't a swing bowler by any means and his chest on action would have had the purists frowning. However what he is is a classical seam bowler that had the added advantage due to his height and therefore bounce. And he could seam it in and out all day long which is amazing as he was able to seam the ball even when it was old and stitching had flattened out. He was a taller version of Shaun Pollock if you like But extremely fit, mentally tough and versatile bowler that was effective on any batting strip. The only time i can remember him being unfit was late in his career and Thankfully he quite helpfully stood on a cricket ball and twisted his ankle handing England the 2005 Ashes. Other than that was hardly ever injured (just compare him to Wasim and Waqar who had untold injuries and injections)

There are plenty of YouTube video on how he would have had more wickets in Pakistan had the Umpires given out some plumb LBW's. But i have to agree that he was the most successful and most complete fast bowler that has ever been.

 

[EliteCynic]

I have never seen Tendu dominate McGrath.

I may be wrong, but McGrath usually gets Tendu whenever India played Aus. The bounce that McGrath used to get was probably too much for Tendu?

How old were you during 1996 WC? He took him to the cleaners on that day. Overall McGrath always had Sachin's number except for 3 occasions (1996 WC and 1998 Champions trophy in Nairobi, when I saw Sachin swearing for the second time ever and that too to McGrath and the Mumbai test of 2001)

McGrath has made Sachin look like a novice on multiple occassions. Couple of them come to mind - 1. Delhi test of 1996 (Clean bowled both innings), 2. WC Final 2003 (Aargh!!!)

 

[Feroz Rawther]

I've seen Tendulkar treat McGrath treat like an off spinner at times, but he would often get over excited and lose a wicket to McGrath playing stupid slogs ala 2003 WC finals. But McGrath had the better of Tendulkar more often than it was the other way around.

I would rate him as among the greatest ever just because of the way he made two of the greatest batsmen of all time, Lara and Tendulkar, struggle almost at will, at times.

this is not fully true. in swing/seam conditions Mcgrath was slightly better whether be in any format, but in other conditions SRT was better.... and we can include Diana memorial match too just for the sheer quality , though it is unofficial.

w.rt topic the presence of Warne helped him immensely too. so over all definitely one of the best, but not that far from others as his stats shows.
i think his stats would have taken some beating with out the other great in Warne

 

[vandokkum]

this is not fully true. in swing/seam conditions Mcgrath was slightly better whether be in any format, but in other conditions SRT was better.... and we can include Diana memorial match too just for the sheer quality , though it is unofficial.

w.rt topic the presence of Warne helped him immensely too. so over all definitely one of the best, but not that far from others as his stats shows.
i think his stats would have taken some beating with out the other great in Warne

lol, admitting the fact that Mcgrath had the better of Sachin does not affect his greatness

 

[Buffet]

McGrath was great in ODIs as well.

381 wickets , avg 22.02 & Economy 3.88

I always found it hard to separate McGrath and Ambrose for the top spot in the last 20-25 years.

 

[EliteCynic]

this is not fully true. in swing/seam conditions Mcgrath was slightly better whether be in any format, but in other conditions SRT was better.... and we can include Diana memorial match too just for the sheer quality , though it is unofficial.

Yes, Sachin played a special innings that day. Lit up Lords. Pity, he couldn't do it in a test match.
Don't want to hijack the thread which is about McGrath. Two wonderful anecdotes to mind about McGrath. Allow me to share them:

1. Ashes 1997 - Edgbaston - Aus los the test, thanks to a brillant double from Nasser and a century from Thorpe. After the test, Geoff Marsh, who was the coach, asks the groundman to leave the pitch as is as he would want to practice. He gets McGrath and tells him what he is doing wrong. Basically, he told him that he was bowling an 'Australian' length and had to pitch it up if he wanted to succeed in England. He then placed a handkerchief at a full length and asked McGrath to keep bowling at that. McGrath practiced it relentlessly and what was the net result? Next test match at Lords, he takes 8/38. He was not naturally gifted, but put in tremendous effort.

2. He had a great memory. He remembered every wicket of his (almost every). Remember an interview of his with Harsha, where he said, he was on a bus in England and was playing for some county that season (Worcester I reckon) and a guy asked him if he remembers his wickets that season. He had a hell of a season. McGRath said, since he had time on his hands and the bus had a while to go, he borrowed and pen and paper and wrote down each of his 100 odd wickets, including the mode of dismissal and who was the fielder. Amazing, I would say!

 

[vandokkum]

McGrath was great in ODIs as well.

381 wickets , avg 22.02 & Economy 3.88

I always found it hard to separate McGrath and Ambrose for the top spot in the last 20-25 years.

Those stats don't do him justice, he was the main reason Australia won three world cups in a row. A player for the biggest occassions, underrated due to lack of flair.

 

[Saqs]

this is not fully true. in swing/seam conditions Mcgrath was slightly better whether be in any format, but in other conditions SRT was better.... and we can include Diana memorial match too just for the sheer quality , though it is unofficial.

w.rt topic the presence of Warne helped him immensely too. so over all definitely one of the best, but not that far from others as his stats shows.
i think his stats would have taken some beating with out the other great in Warne

One can argue that McGrath would have taken more if Warne didn't play because he effectively had to share the spoils with him.

People argue against Murali taking so many wickets for that very reason - that he was the only genuine wicket taker in his team for over a decade.

 

[Buffet]

Those stats don't do him justice, he was the main reason Australia won three world cups in a row. A player for the biggest occassions, underrated due to lack of flair.

That's true but just the raw stats to put things in perspective for folks who didn't see McGrath. In the last 25 years or so,

Only 2 bowlers ( Ambrose and Pollock ) had lower economy rate than McGrath.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...0;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

Only 2 bowlers ( Donald and Saqlain) had lower average than McGrath.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...0;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

When you take Economy and average both into account then I don't think anyone has better stats than McGrath in ODIs.

He did it everywhere and against everyone in both formats for a veryy long time. McGrath and Ambrose as the top 2 and then followed by Wasim and Donald for me in this given period.

 

[Anfield]

I believe Marshall's stats are better than Mcgra?

 

[Buffet]

I believe Marshall's stats are better than Mcgra?

If we don't take account of number of wickets then Marshal a bit better stats. To put it in perspective, McGrath has 50% more wickets than Marshall.

For those 50% higher wickets you have 0.70 higher average ( 5 higher SR with 0.19 lower economy rate). In both sample size, you have good performance against all opponents and in all venues. The total number of wickets is ridiculously high for McGrath.

 

[jeetu]

From what i have seen
Best ever - Marshall
2nd spot - Ambrose/Hadlee/Mcgrath
Its tough to differentiate between then. Ambrose looked most threatening but he never played in testing conditions like India.
Hadlee and Mcgrath were pretty similar type of bowlers and perhaps the most accurate bowlers in cricketing history.

 

[Buffet]

From what i have seen
Best ever - Marshall
2nd spot - Ambrose/Hadlee/Mcgrath
Its tough to differentiate between then.

I have a similar opinion even though McGrath had a much longer career than Marshall.

 

[BD-fan]

It is like saying Gavaskar, Border, ABCDEFG whoever crossed 10k runs are better than Bradman. Mind boggling I say!!!
+++
It is Marshal and then everyone else.
+++
Lohmann (ENG - AVG 10.75 SR 34.1 - 1886-1896)
Truman (ENG - AVG 21.57 SR 49.4 - 1952-1965)
Garner (WI - AVG 20.97 SR 50.8 - 1977-1987)
Takeout the stupid stats:
D Steyn, Waqar, Wasim, Imran, Hadlee, Donald, Ambrose, Holding, Hall, Roberts are all as threatening if not more than McGrath. (Left out Sobers for obvious reasons)
+++
McGrath is no Murali (Clear cut).

 

[Justcrazy]

I think MaGrath lacked variations and thus not rated that highly by people.

 

[SL_Fan]

Not sure about him being the most successful Test bowler, but imo it's a toss up between him and Hadlee when it comes to the best fast bowler ever. Both of them have absolutely phenomenal Test and ODI records.

 

[Haz95]

Marshall, hadlee, imran, wasim,mcgrath and ambrose... It in the end tosses up with these lot and malcolm wins

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Feroz Rawther]

lol, admitting the fact that Mcgrath had the better of Sachin does not affect his greatness

i once went thru all the matches these 2 guys met head to head in detail , be it tests or 1 dayers some months back. i am stating based on that

 

[Feroz Rawther]

One can argue that McGrath would have taken more if Warne didn't play because he effectively had to share the spoils with him.

People argue against Murali taking so many wickets for that very reason - that he was the only genuine wicket taker in his team for over a decade.

i always feel that having a great partner helps immensely.this i am telling from a lot of instances where McGrath played against particularly SAF and ENG. In several of those instances i saw these countries overcoming McGrath threat with a lot of difficulties and with out much damage only to come across Warne and getting damaged beyond repair.
other examples of what i said are Shaun Pollock and Botham. it would be better if you would check the records of these 2, with and with out Donald and Willis respectively in their teams.so yes ....as you said Mcgrath would have taken more wickets but i doubt his str: rate ,econ: etc would have remained the same with out Warne.

on a side note this is the reason, Hadlee to me is my all time great fast/swing bowler. he did it all alone.So too Kapildev, whom i rate much higher as a bowler than his stats actually reveal.

w.r.t Murali also you have to take note that he had a very good partner in Vaas. again his figures were of all time great quality any way.so i doubt your claims are valid

 

[DHONI183]

Here´s a huuuuuuuuuuugeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee fan of him!

Curtly Ambrose, Glenn McGrath, Wasim Akram - the three best pacers that I saw in my lifetime (across both formats); or in better words, admired the most.

 

[Saqs]

I never saw Hadlee bowl in his prime, but I sense that he may be a little over-rated on this forum if people are placing him ahead of the likes of Marshall, Wasim, Waqar, etc.

 

[Saqs]

i always feel that having a great partner helps immensely.this i am telling from a lot of instances where McGrath played against particularly SAF and ENG. In several of those instances i saw these countries overcoming McGrath threat with a lot of difficulties and with out much damage only to come across Warne and getting damaged beyond repair.
other examples of what i said are Shaun Pollock and Botham. it would be better if you would check the records of these 2, with and with out Donald and Willis respectively in their teams.so yes ....as you said Mcgrath would have taken more wickets but i doubt his str: rate ,econ: etc would have remained the same with out Warne.

on a side note this is the reason, Hadlee to me is my all time great fast/swing bowler. he did it all alone.So too Kapildev, whom i rate much higher as a bowler than his stats actually reveal.

w.r.t Murali also you have to take note that he had a very good partner in Vaas. again his figures were of all time great quality any way.so i doubt your claims are valid

Your points in bold are valid points.

The rest of your post - not so.

Vaas was not an 'all time great' lol.

 

[Zanjeer]

Lol @ people who say McGrath was a trundler. He was mid 80 mph but was 140 plus when he was younger. As he got older, he was 135-140 most of the time with pin point accuracy. He slowed down during the ashes in 2005 season but he still got bag full of wickets.

Tendulkar had the better of McGrath only in few occasions. Especially that 2002 Nairobi, Kenya, champions trophy where he not only went after McGrath but it was the first time I saw tendulkar sledging a bowler. Prior to that McGrath had great success against Tendulkar and sledged him a lot.

Lara was McGrath 's bunny and the amount of sledging he did to Lara was unbelievable.

 

[Feroz Rawther]

Based on the topic i went thru SRT vs Mcgrath once more. i don't find Mcgrath winning . it is the other way around if we include Diana Memorial match.and if we exclude that almost impossible chase of 359 in world cup final( i am saying so because let alone Sachin, i would have called any body 'GOD' if he achieved that target in Sachin's place with the same set of restrictions SRT had to over come that day.even Sehwag played a run a ball 82 in that match once it was clear that it was a lost cause) we can easily say that Sachin was the winner by a fair distance.

in tests they are almost equal.
in swing/seam one day countries they are almost equal(Diana match & World cup final included)
in Asia Sachin owns Mcgrath. he even has hit him for 19 in 1 over in a match.baring 2 cheap dismissals against Mcgrath, Sachin had clobbered him some 6 or 7 times.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

McGrath was jaw dropping.

Got the better of Sachin more often than not. Owned Sehwag everywhere.

The BEST bowler of his generation.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/fgVaSFLGaFg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

McGrath Vs Steyn - That's a toughie.

I think Steyn has to win it. Steyn transcends eras. When he retires people will debate who was better - Marshall or Steyn?

 

[Nikhil_cric]

The greatest bowler I have watched. Ahead of Steyn,Donald,Wasim, Waqar and even Ambrose probably. McGrath certainly used to swing the ball a fair bit early in his career. I think a large percentage of his wickets were to order wickets and he always got top batsmen of the opposition out consistently. It is no coincidence that Australia's domination starting from the tour of WI in 1995 till ashes 2005 also happened to be McGrath's peak as a bowler. AUS always struggled without McGrath. 2003/04 Indian tour of AUS being a perfect example.

 

[Feroz Rawther]

Your points in bold are valid points.

The rest of your post - not so.

Vaas was not an 'all time great' lol.

i didn't say Vaas was a great bowler. but he took 355 wkts at an avg: of 29.55 in 111 tests.that means he was a more than descend partner for Murali.that means at least in home conditions he played perfect fiddle to Murali....and when we say a successful bowling combination, it is not about stats only. ... it is about planning the dismissals, who to target whom etc etc.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I have WATCHED Sachin Vs Mcgrath battles and usually McGrath wins.

With that being said, it doesn't necessarily mean Sachin just couldn't handle McGrath.

Problem was Sachin used to get over excited when facing him. He would play beautiful shots but couldn't sustain it against McGrath and would get out.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/cDBv-Jtq8Zw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Watch this video to see how Sachin treats McGrath.

McGrath planned the perfect setup but Sachin thwarts the plan as he fully knew what McGrath was doing.

Finally McGrath gets him out (albeit a wrong decision but still Sachin missed his in seam delivery).

McGrath is JUST TOO GOOD.

McGrath Vs Sachin battle that I have seen - Gotta say McGrath wins it (not based on this video above - overall).

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Forget Sachin even VVS never really got on top of McGrath. Even during his 281 against Australia, McGrath troubled him a lot. The only batsmen who probably were good against him were Saeed Anwar and Ijaz Ahmed. In fact McGrath didn't do much against Pakistan till that 2004 tour.

 

[Feroz Rawther]

I have WATCHED Sachin Vs Mcgrath battles and usually McGrath wins.

With that being said, it doesn't necessarily mean Sachin just couldn't handle McGrath.

Problem was Sachin used to get over excited when facing him. He would play beautiful shots but couldn't sustain it against McGrath and would get out.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/cDBv-Jtq8Zw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Watch this video to see how Sachin treats McGrath.

McGrath planned the perfect setup but Sachin thwarts the plan as he fully knew what McGrath was doing.

Finally McGrath gets him out (albeit a wrong decision but still Sachin missed his in seam delivery).

McGrath is JUST TOO GOOD.

McGrath Vs Sachin battle that I have seen - Gotta say McGrath wins it (not based on this video above - overall).

what i wrote in my earlier post w.r.t is by going thru the score cards and match reports of the entire tests and one dayers they went head to head even just few minutes before.
based on that to me Sachin was the clear winner

 

[justarslan]

Not a hater man.

Just asking the obvious question. The true mark of a fast bowler can be measured by his averages in Subcontinent and UAE.

If McGrath has managed 21 in India and 7.4 in UAE, he should be up there with the best.

Its incredible that a trundler has achieved so much. What a bowler he is. I have seen McGrath a lot and he does not even swing the ball much. All he does is target the 4th or 5th stump outside off and bowl consistently over there at an almost derivable length. His height enabled him to get the extra bounce and Healy/Gilly did the rest.

Pakistan batting was super pathetic in that series against Aussies in UAE. They got out for scores of 50 to 60 on multiple occasions in that series.

 

[Romali_rotti]

no , murali is the greatest chucking bowler of all times

corrected...

 

[Romali_rotti]

McGrath Vs Sachin battle that I have seen - Gotta say McGrath wins it (not based on this video above - overall).

In ODIs I agree Mcgrath had the upper hand however in test matches it was a slate mate, Mcgrath cashed in on an injured SRT in 2004 to boost his avg up vs SRT.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Also sorry Mcgrath > Steyn easily.................

 

[Romali_rotti]

McGrath has made Sachin look like a novice on multiple occassions. Couple of them come to mind - 1. Delhi test of 1996 (Clean bowled both innings), 2. WC Final 2003 (Aargh!!!)

Got him in the second innings bowled once, OH the same Delhi test match where Mcgrath and co let Nayan Mongia hit a 150 and India beat aus by 8 wickets ?? Yeahh I remember that game...

 

[Romali_rotti]

Never seen Lara made to look like such a walking wicket except when Pidge bowled to him. He had him worked out so thoroughly it was astonishing.

Lara and Mcgrath played so many matches against each other that it was only natural Lara would get out to him a lot. I disagree that Lara was a walking wicket vs Mcgrath..

 

[Saqs]

Lara and Mcgrath played so many matches against each other that it was only natural Lara would get out to him a lot. I disagree that Lara was a walking wicket vs Mcgrath..

Disagree all you want, but if you had seen some of those Test matches throughout the '90s - Lara really looked clueless.

Yes it also coincided with a dip in form for Lara, but Mcgrath is the only bowler I have seen dominate Lara like that.

 

[Jo_Don]

Lol @ people who say McGrath was a trundler. He was mid 80 mph but was 140 plus when he was younger. As he got older, he was 135-140 most of the time with pin point accuracy. He slowed down during the ashes in 2005 season but he still got bag full of wickets.

I've seen him since the start of his career and he was always a low 130s bowler. His effort ball was in the high 130s, but he was always in the high 120s and low 130s.

Who cares about the speed that he bowled at anyway? This only seems to be an issue with some fans in the subcontinent. The fact is that he found what worked for him and exploited it to become incredibly successful.

 

[Feroz Rawther]

the details of the SRT-Mcgrath head to head duels in one dayers

SRT wins

125(114) - eng(unofficial)
38(37) - kenya
47(40) - nzl
110(130) - sl
90(84) - ind
88(111) - ind
62(60) - ind
35(26) - ind(19 runs in 1 over, got run out)
32(29) - ind
139(125) - ind (dismissed by Mcgrath)
62(38) - ind

Mcgrath wins

4(5) - saf(world cup final)
0(4) - eng
1(11) -aus
6(7) - u.a.e
7(11) - sl
10(26) - ind

in almost all 11 one dayers where SRT wins he took Mcgrath to the cleaners, even scoring 19 in an over once.here he was dismissed only once where he scored 139.

6 times Mcgrath dismissed SRT cheaply.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

In ODIs I agree Mcgrath had the upper hand however in test matches it was a slate mate, Mcgrath cashed in on an injured SRT in 2004 to boost his avg up vs SRT.

Yeah that's a fair point. Sachin in 2004 was really bad.

But looking at it from an overall POV, I just feel McGrath holds the upper hand over Sachin. Part of blame goes to Sachin for wanting to dominate McGrath (in ODIs) but end result is McGrath had upper hand.

Unfortunately the guy who owned Sachin in Tests is Anderson. Sachin played good innings against him too but Anderson was a clear winner. I don't think of any other bowler (leaving aside Cronje part timers) who Sachin really had a problem with. Maybe Akhtar sporadically. That's it.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

the details of the SRT-Mcgrath head to head duels in one dayers

SRT wins

125(114) - eng(unofficial)
38(37) - kenya
47(40) - nzl
110(130) - sl
90(84) - ind
88(111) - ind
62(60) - ind
35(26) - ind(19 runs in 1 over, got run out)
32(29) - ind
139(125) - ind (dismissed by Mcgrath)
62(38) - ind

Mcgrath wins

4(5) - saf(world cup final)
C0(4) - eng
1(11) -aus
6(7) - u.a.e
7(11) - sl
10(26) - ind

in almost all 11 one dayers where SRT wins he took Mcgrath to the cleaners, even scoring 19 in an over once.here he was dismissed only once where he scored 139.

6 times Mcgrath dismissed SRT cheaply.

Good stats but feel you are going for a very statistical analysis which isn't perfectly right.

Why?

Cos a batsman can survive a bowler (in ODI) and then whack others. A bowler can win a duel against a batsman even if he troubles him at first, gets removed later on (due to limitation of overs) and then comes back to take his wicket. I am not saying this is what happened but just giving you an example.

If you feel Sachin had a upper hand, its fine. But many others feel McGrath had it. Including me.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Not one single batsman has EVER owned McGrath.

Ever.

Ever.

Owning here means something consistent like Sachin did do Warne, Lara did to Murali, Warne did to Cullinan, Maxwell does to Ashwin )

Not one has even owned McGrath at a 50% level compared to all the above.

 

[Robert]

Not one single batsman has EVER owned McGrath.

Ever.

Ever.

....apart from KP in 2005.....

 

[Barragan]

He just bowled line and length!

He played a patient game and so did Pollock, so don't see the difference except McGrath was more successful.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

....apart from KP in 2005.....

Did he?

Awesome.

I remember KP being brutal in 2005.

But did he own McGrath consistently? Or in a match?

Both are an achievement considering its McGrath but just asking.

Can you give me a video or link or something?

 

[Crazy_K]

Most boring?

Not if you enjoy the nuances of what he did and how he ensnared batsmen into his trap time and time again. There was a magnetism to it.

Most boring bowler ever would be a guy who just runs and does nothing with the ball and nothing with his head.

This! McGrath working over a batsman was beautiful.

 

[Feroz Rawther]

Good stats but feel you are going for a very statistical analysis which isn't perfectly right.

Why?

Cos a batsman can survive a bowler (in ODI) and then whack others. A bowler can win a duel against a batsman even if he troubles him at first, gets removed later on (due to limitation of overs) and then comes back to take his wicket. I am not saying this is what happened but just giving you an example.

If you feel Sachin had a upper hand, its fine. But many others feel McGrath had it. Including me.

as i said earlier i went in details thru all these score cards like when did the 1st wkt fell, what was SRT's score at that point etc etc and ofcourse available detailed reports of those matches.even by just going thru the 11 scores i put forward, we can see the str: rates of SRT which were huge in almost all of those.yes there are chances of what you described could have happend, but here in this case after analysing all the available data i feel SRT really gave a hammering to Mcgrath in lot of these matches.for eg: he scored 19 in 1 over of him before eventually getting runout for a mere 35.on another instance he took 3 fours of 1 over from Mcgrath.then that Kenya match etc etc. SRT getting out to Mcgrath only once in 11 matches too adds to my belief.any way each to his own

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

as i said earlier i went in details thru all these score cards like when did the 1st wkt fell, what was SRT's score at that point etc etc and ofcourse available detailed reports of those matches.even by just going thru the 11 scores i put forward, we can see the str: rates of SRT which were huge in almost all of those.yes there are chances of what you described could have happend, but here in this case after analysing all the available data i feel SRT really gave a hammering to Mcgrath in lot of these matches.for eg: he scored 19 in 1 over of him before eventually getting runout for a mere 35.on another instance he took 3 fours of 1 over from Mcgrath.then that Kenya match etc etc. SRT getting out to Mcgrath only once in 11 matches too adds to my belief.any way each to his own

I get it bud.

I don't think Sachin struggled with McGrath but I can never shake off the feeling and say with utmost conviction that he had the upper hand against McGrath.

I used to be always scared when McGrath bowled.

After watching matches, its my view that McGrath had the upper hand.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Disagree all you want, but if you had seen some of those Test matches throughout the '90s - Lara really looked clueless.

Yes it also coincided with a dip in form for Lara, but Mcgrath is the only bowler I have seen dominate Lara like that.

Lot of people just remember Lara's great devastating innings and call him better than Sachin.

Many don't remember how inconsistent Lara was. His ability to produce a magical and iconic innings every now and then (which Sachin couldn't) overshadowed everything.

He was an unbelievable ATG no doubt but gets SLIGHTLY over hyped because people only remember his highs and not his lows.

My view.

 

[Feroz Rawther]

I get it bud.

I don't think Sachin struggled with McGrath but I can never shake off the feeling and say with utmost conviction that he had the upper hand against McGrath.

I used to be always scared when McGrath bowled.

After watching matches, its my view that McGrath had the upper hand.

there is the world cup match in 96 too apart from what i already said where SRT hit him for 3 fours in 1 0ver. now if we go thru the bowling figures of Mcgrath in all these matches we can see that he went from 4.9 to 7.75 runs/ over in almost all of them.and in several of these,
SRT's partners really struggled to get going too if we go into details.all these apart from what
i already statedin earlier msg:s are the reasons for my conclusions.any way each to his own.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

there is the world cup match in 96 too apart from what i already said where SRT hit him for 3 fours in 1 0ver. now if we go thru the bowling figures of Mcgrath in all these matches we can see that he went from 4.9 to 7.75 runs/ over in almost all of them.and in several of these,
SRT's partners really struggled to get going too if we go into details.all these apart from what
i already statedin earlier msg:s are the reasons for my conclusions.any way each to his own.

I meant overall.

 

[Saqs]

Lot of people just remember Lara's great devastating innings and call him better than Sachin.

Many don't remember how inconsistent Lara was. His ability to produce a magical and iconic innings every now and then (which Sachin couldn't) overshadowed everything.

He was an unbelievable ATG no doubt but gets SLIGHTLY over hyped because people only remember his highs and not his lows.

My view.

People remember his lows. Most of his fans do. It's one of the reasons that we are his fans. Because he was a flawed genius. That attracts the common man. If he was too consistent, he'd probably lose me as a supporter. His flaws made him human.

Also he could do things with the blade that I've not seen anyone else do. Even Sachin.

His last words on the Cricket pitch was 'did I entertain?' - that he certainly did. Whether it be spectacular highs or incredible lows.

It is the same reason I never miss a KP innings. Especially if he has been hounded by the press. They both batted like they had something to prove. And when they did, it was a dream to watch them.

 

[zabalestmsm]

Not one single batsman has EVER owned McGrath.

Ever.

Ever.

Owning here means something consistent like Sachin did do Warne, Lara did to Murali, Warne did to Cullinan, Maxwell does to Ashwin )

Not one has even owned McGrath at a 50% level compared to all the above.

Razzaq's 5 fours off his over

 

[biggestdravidfan]

People remember his lows. Most of his fans do. It's one of the reasons that we are his fans. Because he was a flawed genius. That attracts the common man. If he was too consistent, he'd probably lose me as a supporter. His flaws made him human.

Also he could do things with the blade that I've not seen anyone else do. Even Sachin.

His last words on the Cricket pitch was 'did I entertain?' - that he certainly did. Whether it be spectacular highs or incredible lows.

It is the same reason I never miss a KP innings. Especially if he has been hounded by the press. They both batted like they had something to prove. And when they did, it was a dream to watch them.

KP in full flow was a treat to eyes.

 

[Robert]

Did he?

Awesome.

I remember KP being brutal in 2005.

But did he own McGrath consistently? Or in a match?

Well, he averaged 60 in the eight tests in which McGrath bowled at him, and bashed him for a few sixes. McGrath got him out a few times though.

I can remember Vaughan clattering McGrath in the 2003 Ashes - he hit 633 runs in five tests.

 

[Wassixpakistani]

Kudos to Robelinda for the compilation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Op2r1cIEx4o

 

[Zanjeer]

I've seen him since the start of his career and he was always a low 130s bowler. His effort ball was in the high 130s, but he was always in the high 120s and low 130s.

Who cares about the speed that he bowled at anyway? This only seems to be an issue with some fans in the subcontinent. The fact is that he found what worked for him and exploited it to become incredibly successful.

You gotta be kidding me. He was certainly 140ish when he was younger.

 

[Bhaijaan]

McGrath well above Steyn for me. His record against Lara & Tendulkar is pretty phenomenal, significant because those 2 were by far the best batsman in his era. Secondly, his record is world tournaments. A complete bowler who could deliver just about anywhere against anyone.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

I get it bud.

I don't think Sachin struggled with McGrath but I can never shake off the feeling and say with utmost conviction that he had the upper hand against McGrath.

I used to be always scared when McGrath bowled.

After watching matches, its my view that McGrath had the upper hand.

2006 DLF Cup there was a match on a seaming wicket where McGrath completely outclassed Sachin. On the whole I think McGrath was the only bowler Sachin really struggled against.