Is India making the case that the only solution of Kashmir problem is a war?

[srh]

As we all know that India is occupying Kashmir by force for a long time. This is the root cause of problems between India and Pakistan.

India has again rejected US offer in resolving the Kashmir issue peacefully. Is it India telling the world that they will never free the Kashmiri people and those people may get freedom only via war and beat India?

 

[TOP SPINNER_01]

What are we waiting for? Time to teach a lesson to these rascalls..

 

[Madplayer]

The solution is indeed only war.

Alternatively, a total economic collapse of India will also work but that is unlikely at the moment.

 

[Syed1]

Was watching a documentary on Kartarpur corridor, in the docu they mentioned that just beyond the border there was a district with absolute Muslim majority but the Brits gave it to India forcing a max exodus of people to Pakistan from that district. Turns out the only road connecting Punjab with Kashmir at the time passed through that district.

 

[AdamM97]

Was watching a documentary on Kartarpur corridor, in the docu they mentioned that just beyond the border there was a district with absolute Muslim majority but the Brits gave it to India forcing a max exodus of people to Pakistan from that district. Turns out the only road connecting Punjab with Kashmir at the time passed through that district.

Gurdaspur? It should’ve been part of Pakistan since it was a muslim majority district but Cyril Radcliffe changed his mind.

 

[Nostalgic]

Was watching a documentary on Kartarpur corridor, in the docu they mentioned that just beyond the border there was a district with absolute Muslim majority but the Brits gave it to India forcing a max exodus of people to Pakistan from that district. Turns out the only road connecting Punjab with Kashmir at the time passed through that district.

Gurdaspur. The division was to occur at the district level in Punjab, but for this district, Radcliffe decided to split it at the tehsil level. As a matter of fact, the district was provisionally awarded to us, but was taken away a couple of days after independence.

This is a topic that’s come up over and over ever since, the theory being that Nehru and Co got to Mountbatten and Radcliffe, whereas our leadership was convinced the Brits would play fair, which of course they didn’t.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Really surprised people are still so gullible in this day and age. When has India ever shown the aggressive intent to fight a full fledged war? This govt in particular likes to make a lot of noise and beat some drums to get the uneducated masses excited. In reality it will be swinging a few handbags in Pakistan's direction then harassing their own population in Kashmir. India has built an unenviable reputation as a paper tiger. The world doesn't take them seriously as a military force.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Really surprised people are still so gullible in this day and age. When has India ever shown the aggressive intent to fight a full fledged war? This govt in particular likes to make a lot of noise and beat some drums to get the uneducated masses excited. In reality it will be swinging a few handbags in Pakistan's direction then harassing their own population in Kashmir. India has built an unenviable reputation as a paper tiger. The world doesn't take them seriously as a military force.

How many militaries since the second world war have created a new country?

 

[PakLFC]

Only a war will sort our Kashmir like we liberated almost half off it. All other options are invalid and useless.

 

[xbronze]

The solution is indeed only war.

Alternatively, a total economic collapse of India will also work but that is unlikely at the moment.

That solution of war attempted several times. Only once was an independent state formed due to an Indo Pak war. That was 1971 when India carved Bangladesh out of Pakistan.

I am not trying to diminish your zeal for a solution to Kashmir. Even though my loyalty is with India, I wholeheartedly feel for the Kashmiri people.

But my friend, war is never a solution to such matters. The amount of bloodshed that we are talking about is unimaginable, on all sides.

Despite the poverty and internal political divisions within India, one thing that India has demonstrated very well is its ability to stay united against any and all outside challenges to its sovereignty. Never have illusions that the minorities of India will support any outside forces. And that absolutely includes our Muslim brothers in India. Regardless of what you may see or believe, a few exceptions notwithstanding, Indian Muslims are an extremely patriotic people.

Also, the Indian Military is not unprofessional or weak, as most Pakistani friends believe. Remember that statement that President Obama once made...wherein he stated that the India US partnership has the potential to become the defining partnership of this century. He went on to say that there is a reason why the highest number of joint military exercises that the US military has is not with the UK or Israel, but with India.

My point is that both Pakistan and India have very capable militaries (even though most Pakistanis believe that India has a very weak Army, Navy and Airforce, that will possibly roll over and surrender in a day or two, atleast that is the impression I get from our Pakistan friends in various online forums), and any military misadventure would be just that - a misadventure.

In my opinion, the only long term solution to the Kashmir issue, is great economic cooperation between India and Pakistan, so that both countries reap the benefits of enormous progress of the subcontinent. Say fifty years down the road, both India and Pakistan would be one of the most vibrant economies of the world. Not only India, both Kashmirs shall be prosperous, with people of Kashmir having solid employment/industries and educational/research institutions. Instead of having cross border terror we should have cross border free trade that benefits and uplifts everyone on all sides.

As I imagine and look far into that beautiful future, I see a wonderful Indo Pak economic union where borders become virtually like US/Canada, and India/Pak including Kashmir becomes one great economic union. When the aspirations of all people are met, division will disappear and we will all live a harmonious life (atleast our future generations will).

One can at least dream.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

How many militaries since the second world war have created a new country?

We are talking about India, not USA. Stop deflecting.

 

[rhony]

Time for Pakistan to hold a plebisite in AK and Gilgit to show the world how serious and magnanimous they are about the Kashmir issue. That would put pressure on GOI and will show the true intentions. There will not be any war in the current scenario. The only solution is what I suggested unless everybody decides that POK will be part of Pak and IOK will be part of India.

 

[msaaim89]

Only a war will sort our Kashmir like we liberated almost half off it. All other options are invalid and useless.

A war won't work. Once one side realises they are losing badly, the nuclear option is open.

 

[msaaim89]

Time for Pakistan to hold a plebisite in AK and Gilgit to show the world how serious and magnanimous they are about the Kashmir issue. That would put pressure on GOI and will show the true intentions. There will not be any war in the current scenario. The only solution is what I suggested unless everybody decides that POK will be part of Pak and IOK will be part of India.

I'm afraid I agree with you. It will put India on the backfoot.

 

[cricketjoshila]

We are talking about India, not USA. Stop deflecting.

Yes we are indeed talking about India. So how many armies have created a new nation since WW2.

One is USA. Which are the others?

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

That solution of war attempted several times. Only once was an independent state formed due to an Indo Pak war. That was 1971 when India carved Bangladesh out of Pakistan.

I am not trying to diminish your zeal for a solution to Kashmir. Even though my loyalty is with India, I wholeheartedly feel for the Kashmiri people.

But my friend, war is never a solution to such matters. The amount of bloodshed that we are talking about is unimaginable, on all sides.

Despite the poverty and internal political divisions within India, one thing that India has demonstrated very well is its ability to stay united against any and all outside challenges to its sovereignty. Never have illusions that the minorities of India will support any outside forces. And that absolutely includes our Muslim brothers in India. Regardless of what you may see or believe, a few exceptions notwithstanding, Indian Muslims are an extremely patriotic people.

Also, the Indian Military is not unprofessional or weak, as most Pakistani friends believe. Remember that statement that President Obama once made...wherein he stated that the India US partnership has the potential to become the defining partnership of this century. He went on to say that there is a reason why the highest number of joint military exercises that the US military has is not with the UK or Israel, but with India.

My point is that both Pakistan and India have very capable militaries (even though most Pakistanis believe that India has a very weak Army, Navy and Airforce, that will possibly roll over and surrender in a day or two, atleast that is the impression I get from our Pakistan friends in various online forums), and any military misadventure would be just that - a misadventure.

In my opinion, the only long term solution to the Kashmir issue, is great economic cooperation between India and Pakistan, so that both countries reap the benefits of enormous progress of the subcontinent. Say fifty years down the road, both India and Pakistan would be one of the most vibrant economies of the world. Not only India, both Kashmirs shall be prosperous, with people of Kashmir having solid employment/industries and educational/research institutions. Instead of having cross border terror we should have cross border free trade that benefits and uplifts everyone on all sides.

As I imagine and look far into that beautiful future, I see a wonderful Indo Pak economic union where borders become virtually like US/Canada, and India/Pak including Kashmir becomes one great economic union. When the aspirations of all people are met, division will disappear and we will all live a harmonious life (atleast our future generations will).

One can at least dream.

Brilliant post!!!

 

[PakLFC]

A war won't work. Once one side realises they are losing badly, the nuclear option is open.

It will work. No one will use the nukes even if they are openly under invasion.

 

[sjahmed23]

We will keep worrying about Kashmir while people on both sides die due to lack of clean water and climate change.

 

[DeadBall]

One can at least dream.

And it will remain a dream for the foreseeable future. The ruling parties hold on to power by the manipulating the misinformed, mis/illeducated, emotional masses.

Just look at the comments on YT, FB, etc to get an idea of the amount of brainwashing, poisoning and hatred to get a gauge of things and these are the so called educated ones.

 

[slipcatch]

I failed to understand these “Dream” posts.

Huge Majority of Kashmiri don’t want anything to do with India, India need additional 25,000 occupying forces on top of more that 500,000.

Huge huge majority of Indians are Okay with Kashmiri genocide.

Pakistan, since Kargil, been wanting to solve Kashmir issue with dialogue.

So all these Indians talking about “dream”, need to stop with fake sympathy and hope while voting and supporting their occupying army committing murder daily in Kashmir.

And, how many believe India about finding in kashmir made in Pakistan after how their official lied about everything and anything to safe their chaddi from embarrassment?

 

[xbronze]

I failed to understand these “Dream” posts.

Huge Majority of Kashmiri don’t want anything to do with India, India need additional 25,000 occupying forces on top of more that 500,000.

Huge huge majority of Indians are Okay with Kashmiri genocide.

Pakistan, since Kargil, been wanting to solve Kashmir issue with dialogue.

So all these Indians talking about “dream”, need to stop with fake sympathy and hope while voting and supporting their occupying army committing murder daily in Kashmir.

And, how many believe India about finding in kashmir made in Pakistan after how their official lied about everything and anything to safe their chaddi from embarrassment?

I do not know of ONE Indian who is okay with genocide anywhere. Genocide is bad whether it is in Kashmir or East Pakistan or against Uighur muslims in China. It just cannot be that genocide was okay in East Pakistan. And that it is okay to brush atrocities against Uighur muslims by 'all weather friend' China under the carpet. But somehow this selective outrage emerges only when it comes to Kashmir.

I don't understand the absence of outrage among Pakistanis when Pakistan Government actually votes in the UN in favor of China's persecution of Uighur muslims. But Pakistanis are forever outraged about Kashmir. But from PM to peon every one in Pakistan just turns a blind eye to the state sponsored Uighur muslim persecution in China.

Pakistanis are okay about their 'all weather friend China' enforcing abortions on Uighur women, preventing Uighur men from growing large beards, preventing them from going on Haj, forcing Uighurs to consume Pork and wine with the general Han population in celebrating the Lunar new year, of forcing a Han Chinese person (intelligence official) to live inside Uighur homes to monitor any terrorist tendencies, of forced organ harvesting in 're-education camps' for Uighurs. No, none of these atrocities ever outrages our Pakistani friends. Never.

"Pakistan, since Kargil, been wanting to solve Kashmir issue with dialogue".

So after sneaking into Kargil and getting defeated from vantage positions against Indian soldiers climbing uphill, you want to talk peace. Not much credibility in that. Pakistan needs to make up its mind. Either harbor 'strategic assets' like Bin Laden and company, or genuinely talk peace. Peace and terror cannot co-exist. Negotiations cannot take place under the barrel of a gun.

I for one genuinely feel for the Kashmiri people. I am just circumspect about the peace credentials of some entities who unilaterally foist themselves as the well wishers and custodians of Kashmiris.

 

[DeadBall]

I do not know of ONE Indian who is okay with genocide anywhere.

That argument will only work if you knew all the billion plus Indians everywhere.

 

[slipcatch]

I do not know of ONE Indian who is okay with genocide anywhere. Genocide is bad whether it is in Kashmir or East Pakistan or against Uighur muslims in China. It just cannot be that genocide was okay in East Pakistan. And that it is okay to brush atrocities against Uighur muslims by 'all weather friend' China under the carpet. But somehow this selective outrage emerges only when it comes to Kashmir.

I don't understand the absence of outrage among Pakistanis when Pakistan Government actually votes in the UN in favor of China's persecution of Uighur muslims. But Pakistanis are forever outraged about Kashmir. But from PM to peon every one in Pakistan just turns a blind eye to the state sponsored Uighur muslim persecution in China.

Pakistanis are okay about their 'all weather friend China' enforcing abortions on Uighur women, preventing Uighur men from growing large beards, preventing them from going on Haj, forcing Uighurs to consume Pork and wine with the general Han population in celebrating the Lunar new year, of forcing a Han Chinese person (intelligence official) to live inside Uighur homes to monitor any terrorist tendencies, of forced organ harvesting in 're-education camps' for Uighurs. No, none of these atrocities ever outrages our Pakistani friends. Never.

"Pakistan, since Kargil, been wanting to solve Kashmir issue with dialogue".

So after sneaking into Kargil and getting defeated from vantage positions against Indian soldiers climbing uphill, you want to talk peace. Not much credibility in that. Pakistan needs to make up its mind. Either harbor 'strategic assets' like Bin Laden and company, or genuinely talk peace. Peace and terror cannot co-exist. Negotiations cannot take place under the barrel of a gun.

I for one genuinely feel for the Kashmiri people. I am just circumspect about the peace credentials of some entities who unilaterally foist themselves as the well wishers and custodians of Kashmiris.

There you go with another 'straw man argument', what does OBL has to do with "Kashmir, Pakistan and India'?

Next time you write an essay in an counter argument and before click on that "submit reply", read it first for yourself, i know it would be impossible after reading your responses but, read it as an Indian who hasn't been influenced by Indian media propaganda and radicalized extremists hindu nationalists Hindu PM politics.

And China? Turn off that TV.

Stop coming back with played out argument and talking points.

 

[slipcatch]

That argument will only work if you knew all the billion plus Indians everywhere.

Know plenty of Indian who would be okay with Kashmiri genocide, just have to google it and you will see plenty of prominent Indian Twitter and other social media comments.

 

[DeadBall]

Know plenty of Indian who would be okay with Kashmiri genocide, just have to google it and you will see plenty of prominent Indian Twitter and other social media comments.

There are such people everywhere with similar thoughts and it's not just limited to Indians or Kashmir.

Just wanted to point out the hypocrisy of the poster since hes been writing essays on logic and peace.

 

[slipcatch]

There are such people everywhere with similar thoughts and it's not just limited to Indians or Kashmir.

Just wanted to point out the hypocrisy of the poster since hes been writing essays on logic and peace.

Of course.

 

[Pakistanian]

There are such people everywhere with similar thoughts and it's not just limited to Indians or Kashmir.

Just wanted to point out the hypocrisy of the poster since hes been writing essays on logic and peace.

Well the vast majority of indians I've come across hate Kashmiris and believe that the indian military is justified in what they're doing.

 

[DeadBall]

Know plenty of Indian who would be okay with Kashmiri genocide, just have to google it and you will see plenty of prominent Indian Twitter and other social media comments.

Well the vast majority of indians I've come across hate Kashmiris and believe that the indian military is justified in what they're doing.

Again as I told the pro India guy, you guys may have come across many Indians and even if the number was an impossible MILLION it would still be less than 1 percent of the total population. Clearly not a sample size to gauge the rest.

Sad thing is that you may have met the educated ones and if such is their thinking, one can only imagine what the rest think.

I had a lot of friends in Dubai, London etc while growing up, we used to quote Andaz Apna Apna and Umar Sharif stage shows and these things were never an issue, community wise. Haven't talked to them in ages, maybe I should gauge their responses to see which way the tide is flowing atm and whether they have changed or have been radicalized.

 

[JaDed]

Again as I told the pro India guy, you guys may have come across many Indians and even if the number was an impossible MILLION it would still be less than 1 percent of the total population. Clearly not a sample size to gauge the rest.

Sad thing is that you may have met the educated ones and if such is their thinking, one can only imagine what the rest think.

I had a lot of friends in Dubai, London etc while growing up, we used to quote Andaz Apna Apna and Umar Sharif stage shows and these things were never an issue, community wise. Haven't talked to them in ages, maybe I should gauge their responses to see which way the tide is flowing atm and whether they have changed or have been radicalized.

Depends on their marriage, if they kept themselves busy they wouldn’t care but if they have homely frustration then the frustration probably helps in being outraged online.. just my 2 opinion

Also you are replying to the most judgmental American Pakistani I have come across..

 

[slipcatch]

Depends on their marriage, if they kept themselves busy they wouldn’t care but if they have homely frustration then the frustration probably helps in being outraged online.. just my 2 opinion

Also you are replying to the most judgmental American Pakistani I have come across..

Lol, judge-mental?

Judgement and criticism is reserved for any one who perverting people’s belief to commit crimes.

Unfortunately, Pakistan had been through and hoping it won’t go through same once US leave Afghanistan.

It seem India is heading toward intolerance and it is scary to have over one billion people ruled by radicalized extremists nationalists PM.

 

[JaDed]

Lol, judge-mental?

Judgement and criticism is reserved for any one who perverting people’s belief to commit crimes.

Unfortunately, Pakistan had been through and hoping it won’t go through same once US leave Afghanistan.

It seem India is heading toward intolerance and it is scary to have over one billion people ruled by radicalized extremists nationalists PM.

I meant the other poster obviously didn't know you were from states.

South Asia has already seen a lot of blood shed during 1947 due to religion, every decade there is lot of blood shed its not new but ofcourse in this day and age one expects better, plus 1 billion people will not become radical over period of time just because the leader is extremist ,if that's what your assumption is..

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It will work. No one will use the nukes even if they are openly under invasion.

A war won't work because quite simply neither side has the stomach for it. All the drum thumping from the supposedly stronger side never goes beyond beating those drums. Feel free to bookmark this post and call me out for being wrong if the superpower actually declares war.

 

[rhony]

I failed to understand these “Dream” posts.

Huge Majority of Kashmiri don’t want anything to do with India, India need additional 25,000 occupying forces on top of more that 500,000.

Huge huge majority of Indians are Okay with Kashmiri genocide.

Pakistan, since Kargil, been wanting to solve Kashmir issue with dialogue.

So all these Indians talking about “dream”, need to stop with fake sympathy and hope while voting and supporting their occupying army committing murder daily in Kashmir.

And, how many believe India about finding in kashmir made in Pakistan after how their official lied about everything and anything to safe their chaddi from embarrassment?

Pakistan, AK, Gilgit should invite the occupied Kashmiris to their land. Life is more important than land. I'm totally convinced that you are not a hypocrite and unlike those blood thirsty Indians, you care about the well being of Kashmiris. AK is still called POK because there was no plebiscite there yet? Why not? Considering how concerned Pakistanis are about Kashmiris, I'd expect a plebisite atleast

 

[rhony]

A war won't work because quite simply neither side has the stomach for it. All the drum thumping from the supposedly stronger side never goes beyond beating those drums. Feel free to bookmark this post and call me out for being wrong if the superpower actually declares war.

Because there is no need for it. Both India, Pakistan have occupied Kashmir and wouldn't budge. Why will there be war? The best solution is to allow settlements. Once Kashmiris mingle and coexist with others, they will slowly stop their azadi rant and will be pragmatic. This could make them sensible as well.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Because there is no need for it. Both India, Pakistan have occupied Kashmir and wouldn't budge. Why will there be war? The best solution is to allow settlements. Once Kashmiris mingle and coexist with others, they will slowly stop their azadi rant and will be pragmatic. This could make them sensible as well.

And this answer basically proves my point and answers the question in the OP. Close the thread.

 

[Madplayer]

Because there is no need for it. Both India, Pakistan have occupied Kashmir and wouldn't budge. Why will there be war? The best solution is to allow settlements. Once Kashmiris mingle and coexist with others, they will slowly stop their azadi rant and will be pragmatic. This could make them sensible as well.

We can co-exist with anyone after we get to choose our fate. Otherwise Kashmir will keep draining India's resources and India will stay the bhooki nangi country that it is because of your massive defense budget while half of your population is poorer than sub-saharan africa. Our culture, our ethnicity, our ethos is totally different to yours. You are and will be the outsiders till eternity. You arent from us and we arent from you. Accept it.

 

[xbronze]

We can co-exist with anyone after we get to choose our fate. Otherwise Kashmir will keep draining India's resources and India will stay the bhooki nangi country that it is because of your massive defense budget while half of your population is poorer than sub-saharan africa. Our culture, our ethnicity, our ethos is totally different to yours. You are and will be the outsiders till eternity. You arent from us and we arent from you. Accept it.

Friend Madplayer, so what do you propose be done if status quo is maintained and India does nothing? What is the way out? Maintaining the status quo has worked well for India for 70 years. No amount of insurgency, wars, armed intervention (Kargil) has changed the geography on the ground.

So what else is the way out?

 

[rhony]

We can co-exist with anyone after we get to choose our fate. Otherwise Kashmir will keep draining India's resources and India will stay the bhooki nangi country that it is because of your massive defense budget while half of your population is poorer than sub-saharan africa. Our culture, our ethnicity, our ethos is totally different to yours. You are and will be the outsiders till eternity. You arent from us and we arent from you. Accept it.

Kashmir is strategically very important. The resources and money spent there are worth the pain. Your culture or ethnicity and ethos is no different to Afghanistan. You will fight amongst yourselves and will become a bigger headache to India in the future if you are left alone. Look how Certain areas are impacted by Taliban in Pakistan. India doesn't want to be another Pakistan. Rest of the India is racing towards AI and the future and your youth is stuck in religion and delusion. You made a grave mistake by accepting cross border militancy and kicking out the pandits. Once that's done there was no way back. India has its problems and there is growth in every sphere. Because of the sheer size, it will take time to eradicate poverty. Half the population has more prosperity than many countries combined. There is a document that says Kashmir was acceded to India decades ago. Read it. Also read the conditions of the plebiscite. Move to modern times and be pragmatic. One way or the other, India will achieve what it wants. That's despite the bhooki nangi sub Saharan ......

 

[Madplayer]

Kashmir is strategically very important. The resources and money spent there are worth the pain. Your culture or ethnicity and ethos is no different to Afghanistan. You will fight amongst yourselves and will become a bigger headache to India in the future if you are left alone. Look how Certain areas are impacted by Taliban in Pakistan. India doesn't want to be another Pakistan. Rest of the India is racing towards AI and the future and your youth is stuck in religion and delusion. You made a grave mistake by accepting cross border militancy and kicking out the pandits. Once that's done there was no way back. India has its problems and there is growth in every sphere. Because of the sheer size, it will take time to eradicate poverty. Half the population has more prosperity than many countries combined. There is a document that says Kashmir was acceded to India decades ago. Read it. Also read the conditions of the plebiscite. Move to modern times and be pragmatic. One way or the other, India will achieve what it wants. That's despite the bhooki nangi sub Saharan ......

The resources spent on colonialism is worth it? China is strategically important too. Why doesnt India occupy it as well. Will be worth the efforts. Stupid analogies and use of gargantuan doesnt mask the fact that India is a colonial power in Kashmir. And lol @ we will fight amongst ourselves. We were doing very well for centuries when we had nothing to do with present day mainland India. Your rulers on the other hand were cutting each other's throats. Our culture, ethnicity and ethos is superior to yours and way more civilised and tolerant. India is the next afghanistan anyway. Thats one more reason why we dont want anything to do with you. Its only in the interests of J&k to severe completely from the hindu taliban which is running rampant in India now. We'd have to build a wall alongside the border to keep you savages out ALA trump style. India is moving to AI while half of India sleeps on streets lol. Its a mere eyewash and inflation of ego. Indians kicked out Pandits exactly the same way they are kicking out tourists and pilgrims. Its a live example of what happened 30 years ago. Open your eyes and see what your governments have fed you over the years. I am going to create a mega thread on pandits and this time around i will bury the matter once and for all. You are the baddies in this. You are on the wrong side of history. Every colonial power thought their rule will last forever. It wont last. Powers decline and its inevitable. One opportunity and we will get rid of you. India is trying to get rid of poverty. Good for you. Keep trying for next 500 years without us. We have the potential to be the next Malaysia given the immense resources that we have on which India and Pakistan are dependent. But you are holding us back. The document doesnt mean jack without the will of people. One man cannot decide jack. Modi cant accede India to china on his own. There came another document after that which talks about giving people the right to choose their fate. I know the conditions of plebiscite but do you accept that India and Pakistan need to facilitate a referendum in J&K? If not then shut up about "conditions of plebiscite". First accept its need. You stay pragmatic like the British, We'll stay deluded like your forefathers who fought their might.

 

[Madplayer]

Friend Madplayer, so what do you propose be done if status quo is maintained and India does nothing? What is the way out? Maintaining the status quo has worked well for India for 70 years. No amount of insurgency, wars, armed intervention (Kargil) has changed the geography on the ground.

So what else is the way out?

1) Admit the need to hold a plebiscite in the entire state of J&K including Pakistan's side as a whole.

2) Both nations come to table and agree to move out their armies from J&K.

3) Let the UN peacekeeping forces and local police to take over and facilitate a referendum in the entire state.

4) Accept the result no matter what it is.

This is the only peaceful, pragmatic, humane, ethical and just solution to the problem once and for all.

 

[Kashmirilion]

Kashmir is strategically very important. The resources and money spent there are worth the pain. Your culture or ethnicity and ethos is no different to Afghanistan. You will fight amongst yourselves and will become a bigger headache to India in the future if you are left alone. Look how Certain areas are impacted by Taliban in Pakistan. India doesn't want to be another Pakistan. Rest of the India is racing towards AI and the future and your youth is stuck in religion and delusion. You made a grave mistake by accepting cross border militancy and kicking out the pandits. Once that's done there was no way back. India has its problems and there is growth in every sphere. Because of the sheer size, it will take time to eradicate poverty. Half the population has more prosperity than many countries combined. There is a document that says Kashmir was acceded to India decades ago. Read it. Also read the conditions of the plebiscite. Move to modern times and be pragmatic. One way or the other, India will achieve what it wants. That's despite the bhooki nangi sub Saharan ......

Alot of whataboutism in this post.
Are you a sai Baba or fortune teller? What happens to Kashmir once it gets its freedom is none of your concern. So please spare us the rubbish how it will become a failed state. In what way is rest of India racing ahead? The Hindutva mentality is taking India backward not forward. It's ironic how you defend India at every moment but I remember during February you and romali roti both was playing the "we don't live in India so we couldn't care what india does" and how Pakistanis and Indians are the same, when your Indian media and army was exposed and had there behind whooped. Now suddenly Kashmiris are backward and rest of India is racing ahead irony just died!

 

[slipcatch]

I meant the other poster obviously didn't know you were from states.

South Asia has already seen a lot of blood shed during 1947 due to religion, every decade there is lot of blood shed its not new but ofcourse in this day and age one expects better, plus 1 billion people will not become radical over period of time just because the leader is extremist ,if that's what your assumption is..

Obviously, India has the 2nd biggest population of minority, so it can't be one billion.

But vast majority of majority of Population seems to be okay with having an extremists leader.

Neither you nor anyone can deny it, the only denial left is "The leader isn't extremists" and that itself is a light weight argument.

 

[Madplayer]

Alot of whataboutism in this post.
Are you a sai Baba or fortune teller? What happens to Kashmir once it gets its freedom is none of your concern. So please spare us the rubbish how it will become a failed state. In what way is rest of India racing ahead? The Hindutva mentality is taking India backward not forward. It's ironic how you defend India at every moment but I remember during February you and romali roti both was playing the "we don't live in India so we couldn't care what india does" and how Pakistanis and Indians are the same, when your Indian media and army was exposed and had there behind whooped. Now suddenly Kashmiris are backward and rest of India is racing ahead irony just died!

This is a pathetic bunch and their real character comes out as soon as they have to talk about India's crimes. This is their real face and this is the hate that runs in their veins. All of this liberalism etc. is just a mask. This is their reality. Inhuman and unethical genocide defenders.

 

[slipcatch]

Pakistan, AK, Gilgit should invite the occupied Kashmiris to their land. WHY? Why would anyone ask to leave their homes? Are you suggesting they should leave their homes because they are Muslims? if you are then it is a dumbest suggestion

Life is more important than land.Exactly, time for India to stop sending more troops to the land to murder more innocent kashmiri, "live is more important than land", so basically you have said that India would kill innocents in Kashmir and they consider Land more important than life? in other words, Indian government is committing crimes, you just admit that?

I'm totally convinced that you are not a hypocrite and unlike those blood thirsty Indians, you care about the well being of Kashmiris. I think I care about you not making a fool out of yourself then what you think about me and my feelings.
AK is still called POK because there was no plebiscite there yet? Why not? Considering how concerned Pakistanis are about Kashmiris, I'd expect a plebisite atleast You really want to go to that route?

Enjoy!

 

[xbronze]

1) Admit the need to hold a plebiscite in the entire state of J&K including Pakistan's side as a whole.

2) Both nations come to table and agree to move out their armies from J&K.

3) Let the UN peacekeeping forces and local police to take over and facilitate a referendum in the entire state.

4) Accept the result no matter what it is.

This is the only peaceful, pragmatic, humane, ethical and just solution to the problem once and for all.

I have to admit yours is a very well thought out and pragmatic solution. I wish there was some sort of divine intervention to getting all parties to come together on the above lines.

Wishful as I am, I do not see this happening. And that is not a criticism of the quality of your suggestion. Just the reality of the sub continent.

 

[Mian]

Friend Madplayer, so what do you propose be done if status quo is maintained and India does nothing? What is the way out? Maintaining the status quo has worked well for India for 70 years. No amount of insurgency, wars, armed intervention (Kargil) has changed the geography on the ground.

So what else is the way out?

You my friend need to spend more time reading about history and geo and less time trolling on internet forums. There is a piece of land called Azad Kashmir with 10 Districts and it's on Pakistan side they have a PM a President and an Assembly now go and google how the geography on the ground was changed.

 

[AdamM97]

Read somewhere earlier that India is planning to raise the tricolour all over J&K for the Independence day. Unverified news still.

 

[rhony]

Enjoy!

Pakistanis keep harping about how Indians care about land but not the kashmiri people. I'm saying Pakistanis are the same. You want the land too and not it's people. Hold a plebisite in AK and Gilgit. Then make a noise about IOK. Enough of hypocrisy.

 

[rhony]

Alot of whataboutism in this post.
Are you a sai Baba or fortune teller? What happens to Kashmir once it gets its freedom is none of your concern. So please spare us the rubbish how it will become a failed state. In what way is rest of India racing ahead? The Hindutva mentality is taking India backward not forward. It's ironic how you defend India at every moment but I remember during February you and romali roti both was playing the "we don't live in India so we couldn't care what india does" and how Pakistanis and Indians are the same, when your Indian media and army was exposed and had there behind whooped. Now suddenly Kashmiris are backward and rest of India is racing ahead irony just died!

I defend India in this because I hate terrorism in all forms. Hindutva is over rated. It was just a bandwagon to get elected. A few lynchings out of 200 million minorities is not enough sample size. On all accounts, minorities are progressing in India. It's ironic how when foreign media gives religion color to terrorism, people come out and say a few bad apples is not representative of religion. However the same logic is not applied when a few Hindu goons lynch a handful of Muslims due to some vendetta. All of a sudden it's hindutva blah and hindutva Hitler etc. No body is asking for genocide and nobody is claiming to have all minorities dead except for a few idiots.

What have Kashmiris done in 7 decades? Selling dry fuit, shawls and apples is an economy? Tourism is a dud because of terrorists. Any state or country that idolizes a high school dropout terrorist can't progress. Why can't Kashmir progress like other IT hubs in India? It's a pipe dream about freedom that can't happen as u don't have two feet to stand on once there is freedom. They killed Saddam and we all know what happened to Iraq and Syria. Whenever you have religious color as it is in Kashmiri freedom fight, the religious zealots will take over and the illetarati will kill their own people and make a mess of the land as in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria. Learn from history.

 

[rhony]

The resources spent on colonialism is worth it? China is strategically important too. Why doesnt India occupy it as well. Will be worth the efforts. Stupid analogies and use of gargantuan doesnt mask the fact that India is a colonial power in Kashmir. And lol @ we will fight amongst ourselves. We were doing very well for centuries when we had nothing to do with present day mainland India. Your rulers on the other hand were cutting each other's throats. Our culture, ethnicity and ethos is superior to yours and way more civilised and tolerant. India is the next afghanistan anyway. Thats one more reason why we dont want anything to do with you. Its only in the interests of J&k to severe completely from the hindu taliban which is running rampant in India now. We'd have to build a wall alongside the border to keep you savages out ALA trump style. India is moving to AI while half of India sleeps on streets lol. Its a mere eyewash and inflation of ego. Indians kicked out Pandits exactly the same way they are kicking out tourists and pilgrims. Its a live example of what happened 30 years ago. Open your eyes and see what your governments have fed you over the years. I am going to create a mega thread on pandits and this time around i will bury the matter once and for all. You are the baddies in this. You are on the wrong side of history. Every colonial power thought their rule will last forever. It wont last. Powers decline and its inevitable. One opportunity and we will get rid of you. India is trying to get rid of poverty. Good for you. Keep trying for next 500 years without us. We have the potential to be the next Malaysia given the immense resources that we have on which India and Pakistan are dependent. But you are holding us back. The document doesnt mean jack without the will of people. One man cannot decide jack. Modi cant accede India to china on his own. There came another document after that which talks about giving people the right to choose their fate. I know the conditions of plebiscite but do you accept that India and Pakistan need to facilitate a referendum in J&K? If not then shut up about "conditions of plebiscite". First accept its need. You stay pragmatic like the British, We'll stay deluded like your forefathers who fought their might.

Colonial what? Plebiscite was dead after Hindus were kicked out. You say they weren't but who cares. Indians and Pandits own the narrative on this. Perception is reality. That's where the pragmatism comes into picture. Facts will never supercede the narrative. Not how the world works.

Half of India sleeps on streets? I guess you are more ignorant than you seem. Exaggeration has limits. India is second in the last 2 decades in terms of moving people out of poverty after China. That's how large numbers work. Religion as always has sucked people into believing in junk. No population control in rural areas in all religions and no interest in education was the reason for this. Things have changed in the last 2 decades. Read about it. See how China, India and even Bangladesh have been improving in this.

No one is holding you back. I haven't heard of one tech company that's making waves and producing jobs in Kashmir. That's the future, technology. Rest of the world including India is moving ahead while you lot focus on natural resources. You shoot your own foot with terrorism that curbed the tourism revenues.

As far as plebiscite goes, yes I'm up for it. However most of India isn't. Why would they when they believe that all the Hindus have been kicked out. Propaganda is a war and India won that war decades ago. That's why nobody cares about Kashmir other than Pakistan. They too care about the resources and land and not the people.

Comparing India with British is foolishness. The British went back to their country. Indians aren't going anywhere. India is progressing while Kashmir stands still. The numbers don't give support to grandeur delusions of defeating India.

 

[slipcatch]

Pakistanis keep harping about how Indians care about land but not the kashmiri people. I'm saying Pakistanis are the same. You want the land too and not it's people. Hold a plebisite in AK and Gilgit. Then make a noise about IOK. Enough of hypocrisy.

Pakistan care about both.

 

[Romali_rotti]

but I remember during February you and romali roti both was playing the "we don't live in India so we couldn't care what india does"

Give me a link to this, I dont recall saying this but if I did, I cant remember...

 

[Romali_rotti]

Pakistan care about both.

YOU DONT CARE ABOUT SWEET NOTHING.. You let China build infrastructure in POK, which is a disputed territory that belongs to Kashmiris, you keep a blind eye at the brutal crushing of the Ugyhur muslims by China, https://www.sbs.com.au/news/uighur-man-issues-desperate-plea-to-halt-imminent-deportation-to-china. Shut your mouth, a Pakistani should never talk morals ....

 

[slipcatch]

YOU DONT CARE ABOUT SWEET NOTHING.. You let China build infrastructure in POK, which is a disputed territory that belongs to Kashmiris, you keep a blind eye at the brutal crushing of the Ugyhur muslims by China, https://www.sbs.com.au/news/uighur-man-issues-desperate-plea-to-halt-imminent-deportation-to-china. Shut your mouth, a Pakistani should never talk morals ....

Lol.

Again Indian with another “straw man argument”.

What Pakistan does in Pakistani independent Kashmir with the will of people living in Lashmir has nothing to do with you nor any Indian.

It isn’t POK, no Pakistani Army is occupying and no Kashmiri in Pakistan trying to raise Indian flag

Pakistan do care about the people in Indian Occupying Kashmir, remember the people of Kashmir don’t want your “one meal a day Army”, and naturally care about the Indian occupied land because it belongs to the people of Kashmir.

Now please restrain from giving lecture on morality as an Indian who would most likely support innocent Kashmiri genocide just because Kashmiri happen to be Muslims.

And, yea! If people of Kashmir in I Dian occupying Kashmir, their land, wanted to be part of India then Indian wouldn’t have over 600,000 + recent addition of thousands of more occupying forces in kashmir.

You want to try again to appear tough?

 

[Lonewarrior]

YOU DONT CARE ABOUT SWEET NOTHING.. You let China build infrastructure in POK, which is a disputed territory that belongs to Kashmiris, you keep a blind eye at the brutal crushing of the Ugyhur muslims by China, https://www.sbs.com.au/news/uighur-man-issues-desperate-plea-to-halt-imminent-deportation-to-china. Shut your mouth, a Pakistani should never talk morals ....

given the indian history, you shouldnt be talking of morals ,,,
and never talk to a pakistani like that again on this forum , take your sh1t load to somewhere else, we arent your indian muslims.

 

[Romali_rotti]

given the indian history, you shouldnt be talking of morals ,,,
and never talk to a pakistani like that again on this forum , take your sh1t load to somewhere else, we arent your indian muslims.

Where did I say India is the example of morality ? Both Indians and Pakistanis are just as bad as each other. ... I feel really upset that hardly much noise is raised about the Ugyhur muslims by the Pakistanis, ahh agendas, agendas I guess (the power of the 'selective' UMMAH).. ... Ahh well soon the article 35A may be removed and Pakistanis could finally get a chance to move on and rebuild their country rather than burying their head in sand, like we have seen, since the creation of Pakistan .

 

[Pakistanian]

Where did I say India is the example of morality ? Both Indians and Pakistanis are just as bad as each other. ... I feel really upset that hardly much noise is raised about the Ugyhur muslims by the Pakistanis, ahh agendas, agendas I guess (the power of the 'selective' UMMAH).. ... Ahh well soon the article 35A may be removed and Pakistanis could finally get a chance to move on and rebuild their country rather than burying their head in sand, like we have seen, since the creation of Pakistan .

China and India are both trash for persecuting the Uighurs and Kashmiris but India is worse since they've been going at it for much longer plus many Pakistanis can personally relate to Kashmir but Xinjiang is as foreign to us as Cameroon.

 

[Romali_rotti]

plus many Pakistanis can personally relate to Kashmir

Only reason you can relate to Kashmir is because after independence; Pakistan tried to invade all of Kashmir and failed, would have failed spectacularly wasn't for your national hero Pandit Nehru, thank him for the POK you currently have.

Then Pakistan lost what is now Bangladesh in 71 with India doing the dirty work.

Now

Pakistan is looking for payback to India, however unfortunately for Pakistan; they are practically broke, India is not, Pakistan is not taken seriously in the international arena, India is. India holds all the cards and Pakistan holds none, it is time Pakistan cut its loses and start concentrating on their own country, economy, education etc because payback to India for Kashmir & Bangladesh is not in their destiny..


but Xinjiang is as foreign to us as Cameroon.

So there is no Ummah then ?

Bold...

 

[big_gamer007]

No one deserves to live in such panic and fear. The government should issue a statement comforting the citizens and assuring them of their well being.

People need to stop spreading war hysteria. It's not helping anyone.

 

[Majid Khan]

It does seem like that is what India is intent on proving , that there is no solution to this problem through talks, just war.

It’s a bilateral issue they say, we won’t accept any mediation from a third party, we don’t want to talk bilaterally either because we don’t trust them, and if some day they meet our checklist of pre-conditions for talks then and only then we will have a dialogue at a time of our choice, at a place of our choice, on the topics of our choice, and with you standing in the dock and accepting us as the judge, jury and executioner - otherwise we won’t talk.

There you have it, with such a brilliant approach to conflict resolution that India is advocating, we can all live in hope for peace in Kashmir some day.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

You only need a solution if there is a problem - from the Indian pov the status quo is the Kashmir solution. This is what they desire. It's those who want to change the status quo that need to find a solution.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Where did I say India is the example of morality ? Both Indians and Pakistanis are just as bad as each other. ... I feel really upset that hardly much noise is raised about the Ugyhur muslims by the Pakistanis, ahh agendas, agendas I guess (the power of the 'selective' UMMAH).. ... Ahh well soon the article 35A may be removed and Pakistanis could finally get a chance to move on and rebuild their country rather than burying their head in sand, like we have seen, since the creation of Pakistan .

again, no matter what, our support is always with kashmiris ...

 

[big_gamer007]

War is never the solution for anything. There are no winners in wars only lost lives and broken families.

No one deserves to live in fear, government needs to clarify what's going on. People spreading hysteria need to calm down as well, it's not helping anyone.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

War is never the solution for anything. There are no winners in wars only lost lives and broken families.

No one deserves to live in fear, government needs to clarify what's going on. People spreading hysteria need to calm down as well, it's not helping anyone.

Not entirely true. War can be useful for failing governments to distract their population from more pressing issues at home and unite the nation on a common goal. Long term though I agree, unless there is a decisive conclusion.

 

[big_gamer007]

Not entirely true. War can be useful for failing governments to distract their population from more pressing issues at home and unite the nation on a common goal. Long term though I agree, unless there is a decisive conclusion.

The government will win, yes. But the country and its people will lose. So how is this a win for the country? Even a single life lost is one life lost too many.

Gullible people fall for the trap of war to stroke their ego and support their government for wars. Eventually it comes back to bite them hard.

 

[PakLFC]

A war won't work because quite simply neither side has the stomach for it. All the drum thumping from the supposedly stronger side never goes beyond beating those drums. Feel free to bookmark this post and call me out for being wrong if the superpower actually declares war.

India a superpower??)) India will attack Pak then all things will get out of hand. What they need to understand is that Pak will not ceasefire just to please India if provoked. There is no such thing as a restricted or limited war as those idiots seem to think. I see an attack on Pak as war, what I can say is that nether side will use nukes. It is clear that India is panicking over the situation in IoK are IK's meeting with Trump. They are terrified of America leaving Afghanistan knowing the Afghan Taliban will then turn on them.

 

[Runner Up]

India a superpower??)) India will attack Pak then all things will get out of hand. What they need to understand is that Pak will not ceasefire just to please India if provoked. There is no such thing as a restricted or limited war as those idiots seem to think. I see an attack on Pak as war, what I can say is that nether side will use nukes. It is clear that India is panicking over the situation in IoK are IK's meeting with Trump. They are terrified of America leaving Afghanistan knowing the Afghan Taliban will then turn on them.

Thanks for saving my time. This is exactly I wanted to say.

 

[cricketjoshila]

India a superpower??)) India will attack Pak then all things will get out of hand. What they need to understand is that Pak will not ceasefire just to please India if provoked. There is no such thing as a restricted or limited war as those idiots seem to think. I see an attack on Pak as war, what I can say is that nether side will use nukes. It is clear that India is panicking over the situation in IoK are IK's meeting with Trump. They are terrified of America leaving Afghanistan knowing the Afghan Taliban will then turn on them.

Lol. Afghan Taliban will come to India? Lolfer

You guys have some wild imagination.

 

[Varun]

Our flying pieces of metal are ready for action. Watch out, Pakistan!

 

[Pakistanian]

Our flying pieces of metal are ready for action. Watch out, Pakistan!

looks like cheap garbage, a few those pilots are gonna eject over Pakistan and then detained like abhiswamisanjay or whatever tf his name was.

 

[Akki malhotra]

looks like cheap garbage, a few those pilots are gonna eject over Pakistan and then detained like abhiswamisanjay or whatever tf his name was.

You dnt stop playing cricket if in any match your one wicket got down. If our one plan was shot down inside pakistan then it doesn't mean India will now stop using airforce or indian airforce would be dismantled lolz.

 

[Varun]

looks like cheap garbage, a few those pilots are gonna eject over Pakistan and then detained like abhiswamisanjay or whatever tf his name was.

Not just "looks like".

 

[Markhor]

I don't post on Kashmir threads as a general rule because the same talking points gets rehashed over and over again.

We took this peak, you took that peak, the Maharaja did this, the tribes did that. My god it's 2019.

How does this benefit the common man in the two countries ? What does this endless war do for the economy, for the poor and so on ? If only that four point plan that former FM Kasuri mentioned which was the closest this dispute has ever gotten to being resolved was implemented, but Musharraf then began his drama with the chief justice and since then the issue has gone nowhere.

 

[JaDed]

looks like cheap garbage, a few those pilots are gonna eject over Pakistan and then detained like abhiswamisanjay or whatever tf his name was.

You clearly didn’t get his post.

 

[PakLFC]

Lol. Afghan Taliban will come to India? Lolfer

You guys have some wild imagination.

Yes they will. They are not too far from India if you look at the map. Only Pak sits in the middle and will be more then happy to let them loose.

 

[Balthazar]

So who will be our opponents and who is going to beat us? If the answer is Pakistan, then LOL.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Yes they will. They are not too far from India if you look at the map. Only Pak sits in the middle and will be more then happy to let them loose.

Pakistan has been trying to do it for 30 years.

Result is ZERO.

 

[Manager101]

If the world population was 1% of the current era then war could decide a winner but now with massive population, war will never end, both parties will be losers.

 

[AdamM97]

So who will be our opponents and who is going to beat us? If the answer is Pakistan, then LOL.

Tip 1: Never underestimate your opponents. You of all should understand this after what happened in February.

 

[Candyman]

Tip 1: Never underestimate your opponents. You of all should understand this after what happened in February.

All you can do is win a few of these minor skirmishes. Nothing more. Even in 1971 , your media was reporting that Pakistan is winning based on a few minor advancements. But you know how that turned out.

A full scale war is a complete different beast and I'm afraid Pakistan can't even sustain it let alone winning it.

Celebrating these minor skirmishes is like celebrating your bowler picking up a wicket even though you're losing the match.