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Is it fair to say England 2016 was the pinnacle of this Test team and now we are in decline?

GLORY OF '92

GLORY OF '92

Test Debutant
Joined
Dec 10, 2007
Runs
13,008
Just looking forward.

Some of the weaknesses are becoming more pronounced now such as the all rounder issue and lack of runs from Sarfraz. Also our pace bowling is below average which is a major concern.

I'm quite worried now and we might have 6 consecutive Test defeats which would be a soul destroying way for Misbah to retire.

Think our selectors have messed up badly with letting these issues build to this extent.
 
It's a solid test team on Asian wickets, but up against quality pace bowlers on seaming wickets it isn't very well equipped. The defensive, grinding batting tactics works on wickets where there isn't much movement, but it's pretty useless on tracks with life in them. You can just as easily nick a ball defending as attacking.

In bowler friendly conditions you need some positive batting as well as grinders. I don't think anything much has changed, only Pakistan hasn't been exposed to quality pace attacks abroad much. Against England it didn't show as much as their batting was pretty clueless as well.
 
Perhaps a bit early to conclude that we will lose the current Test and then the next three as well?

There is no doubt that the lack of a pace bowling all-rounder is a problem - in fact, the bowling in general will be a problem as well if we continue in a similar manner.

But the main thing which will decide whether we compete in these 4 Tests will be the batting. More scores of 300 across two innings will probably bring more losses.
 
It's the same team, just playing in different conditions.
 
Abdullah719 said:
Perhaps a bit early to conclude that we will lose the current Test and then the next three as well?

There is no doubt that the lack of a pace bowling all-rounder is a problem - in fact, the bowling in general will be a problem as well if we continue in a similar manner.

But the main thing which will decide whether we compete in these 4 Tests will be the batting. More scores of 300 across two innings will probably bring more losses.
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Just going by performance and knowledge.
 
If that's the case - its still been a terrific run and should take nothing away from the fact that we've gone on a unbeaten run of 7 series for the only the third time in our history. Maybe this series was one step too many especially with the lousy preparation. These are difficult batting conditions and many teams would struggle.

I don't think the Australian pitches, other than perhaps the day-nighter in Brisbane, will be as green as what we're seeing in New Zealand.

That being said there are valid criticisms. Batting-wise we too quickly go into a shell after losing a wicket. The bowling seems its Yasir or bust, with the pacers not always getting their control right, and the lack of a quality AR who can be a solid bat and a threatening 5th bowler hurts the balance of the side.
 
What was interesting in the first test match is that the openers actually saw off the opening spell of the bowlers when you would fear losing early wickets, but because the batsmen then failed to assert themselves, they ended up making it look like they were playing the whole innings against a new ball. Very timid mindset and such an approach rarely wins games.
 
It's a very good team. Need experience on these types of pitch. Don't lose hope on the team. It will be ok after some time.
 
I think we will do fine in Australia. Not saying we would win the series but I think we will perform better. The New Zealand conditions are tough for our batsmen.
 
I wanna see us win in Australia though. That's something we need to check off of our list. Or at least draw the series.
 
i think that Yasirs performance at Lords and The Oval just bailed out our pacers. The pitches in england also helped our style pace there wasnt much seam or bounce and were all generally decent batting wickets. Also i do think that getting to No 1 has taken the edge a little off the team. These seam friendly wickets suit NZ more than us they have better pacers than us to exploit the conditions. if england gave us these tracks they would have won. But they had some unfoundef fear that we possessed some great pace attack which atm we dont.
 
Prior to the series in England this year, Pakistan had only played five Test matches outside Asia (including two in Zimbabwe) since June 2011, remarkable as that statistic may sound. In hindsight, playing such little cricket outside Asia has been somewhat of a double edged sword. Playing in familiar conditions, they have developed a template that has worked for them. They have been successful and with success has come stability and a set of core players that are central to the team. But on the flip side, playing such little cricket outside Asia must be a handicap when confronted by conditions such as those in New Zealand this series. That is why a series draw in England was such a noteworthy performance. But the fault-lines even in England were apparent.
 
Australians can be beaten , but Pakistan will need proper plan and execution.

A fast bowling all rounder is a Must. Younis should not be selected. Sharjeel needs to be given an opportunity on top.
 
Once again in this innings we have seen that the scoring has come from the more positive batsmen. Obviously the new ball needs to be negotiated carefully, but I feel the batting line up lacks balance. You need to have a few stroke players in the middle order on seaming wickets, you can get away with grinding batsmen on dust bowls.
 
Good question. Good to face tough questions like this rather than live in denial and chest thump.


But i don't thonk we're in decline, this was always our potential even in England. Only difference was the conditions. Lords played into our hands but we got thoroughly exposed at Old Trafford. Ofc we do have our strengths which we displayed on the pitches favorable to us. Which was basically setting up thw game for Yasir on the last day and being conservative vs the premier pacers ( though we did take them on at times like with Asad's 100) and then taking out the mickey (arthur) out of Moeen.

Even there the lack of discipline from our pacers and slip fielders was apparent. But everybody was so lost with our pretty good overall performance there that the cracks were overlooked.
 
Pathetic and cowardly performance.

Nobodies like Imran selected over Yasir and Rizwan over Sharjeel.
 
How are we in decline? Give us a flat track and we will smash em. These NZ kind of tracks do not suit us now as we rely heavily on Yasir Shah and Wahab Riaz's bursts. NZ has nullified them both.

We were lucky we had flat wickets in the UK otherwise things would have been even worse for both batting and bowling. Old Trafford was an example of what it could have been if Eng prepared better wickets.

Do not forget that we play at the MCG, SCG which are pretty flat wickets and useful for spinners. So Yasir Shah will be in play again and we will see the traditional Pak side back. YK/Misbah's form will still remain a concern though.
 
Our fast bowling has gone down after the departure of Waqar Younis. He is unwilling to take the demotion to bowling coach but our fast bowling goes up or down with his being part of the staff or if he is out. It's our bowling that has been ineffective in NZ where as in the past they would rip thorough sides despite the batsman not being very good.
 
Couch Cricketer said:
Our fast bowling has gone down after the departure of Waqar Younis. He is unwilling to take the demotion to bowling coach but our fast bowling goes up or down with his being part of the staff or if he is out. It's our bowling that has been ineffective in NZ where as in the past they would rip thorough sides despite the batsman not being very good.
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When was the last time our fast bowlers "ripped through" a batting lineup?
Probably not since 2010

It's not Waqar Younis, we just don't have the same type of talent anymore
 
All Good things must come to an end

Yes this hurts a lot but no matter how many ducks Younis makes on this tour or how many maidens Azhar Ali bats out I would trade nothing for the last two years. The chase at Sharjah and Galle the thrashing of England and Australia the adrenaline of the English Summer and capping off with the number one ranking all was worth it in the end.

There were cracks in this team which have been exposed here by New Zeland but we will inshallah rise and be a force once again.

Pakistan Zindabad.
 
Xoib said:
Yes this hurts a lot but no matter how many ducks Younis makes on this tour or how many maidens Azhar Ali bats out I would trade nothing for the last two years. The chase at Sharjah and Galle the thrashing of England and Australia the adrenaline of the English Summer and capping off with the number one ranking all was worth it in the end.

There were cracks in this team which have been exposed here by New Zeland but we will inshallah rise and be a force once again.

Pakistan Zindabad.
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Couldn't have put it better myself...Although i wanted to be a little more selfish and stretch out that Glory up until the Aussie Tour but whatever, as you said; All good things must come to an end.

Misbah has literally been a God sent for us over the last 6 years and the fact that he'll go out as yet another captain that couldn't conquer Australia doesn't really sit well with me - That bloke deserves better to be honest. A thorough gentleman who sparked a revolutionesque resurgence against all odds !!

It was a magical 5-6 years starting with 3-0 England spanking. It was a privilege to follow #TeamMisbah all these years and again as you said, I wouldn't trade for anything.

Pakistan Zindabad
 
I still believe we could have been competitive here and Australia aswell all we needed was a pacer who could lead and take 25 wickets in 5 tests unfortunately we do not have such a pacer Yasir bailed us out In England but to expect him to consistenly win overseas tests is a bit too much. Amir has arguably been the biggest disappointment in all this.
 
I just completely disagree with this assessment,

our team plays a Test Match in NZ after 5 years, and our only Tour game is washed out..

Most of the players go in with not knowing how the pitch will act or how long will the new ball last..

Compared to that we looked a better team in the 2nd test match, more equipped and put up a decent total on board..

I would be alright if we can draw this Test Match.. I would rather take a 1-0 than a 2-0

We have shown some character in this series, but this series has prepared us well for the Australia Test Matches and I wouldn't be too bummed out by a 1-0 defeat in the series nonetheless, that is where our main focuses should lie
 
We got lucky with the pitches in England. This team was always going to get exposed outside the UAE in unfriendly conditions.
 
I would say it is fair to say that our peak was England 2016. Misbah will definitely retire after Australia. Younis will go soon after completing his 10,000 runs. We might still recover from the loss of Misbah-the-batsman, but it's going to take a herculean effort to overcome the loss of Misbah-the-captain. He was very astute and he has won us Test matches with his captaincy.
 
No, they were just the only touring team given enough preparation outside Asia!
 
Mamoon said:
We got lucky with the pitches in England. This team was always going to get exposed outside the UAE in unfriendly conditions.
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Just like England are lucky now that India haven't produced rank turners and how they was lucky that they faced a South African team which had Steyn injured and there 2 best batsmen out of form at the time.
 
Mamoon said:
Yes, but the chest thumping after the England series was OTT.
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Not really, considering the team is fairly limited in pace bowling and has a pedestrian batting line up, that was a pretty successful series in foreign conditions.
 
Seeing how England lost in BD, they all seemed to be on the downward spiral. So not sure if one could call that a pinnacle for Pakistan.
 
Mamoon said:
Yes, but the chest thumping after the England series was OTT.
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Chest thumping was justified. When was the last time England won a test against Pakistan outside England? In 2000, I guess?

Pakistan has won a test in England every time they visited in recent years.
 
Mamoon said:
Yes, but the chest thumping after the England series was OTT.
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Everyone did that, so no point in calling it out.

Clearly these conditions are a different kettle of fish for Pakistan.
 
Given the fact that better players than this got smacked around in Hamilton in 2001 and again how close the series in 2009/2010 was I think new Zealand was only ever going to be a tough tour. Anybody who didn't think we would get beaten just was blindly optimistic. We need to get our seam bowling top notch to beat top teams consistently and right now there are one or two passengers in the team.
 
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