Is it right time for PCB to add one or two more teams to the domestic structure?

[Titan24]

As the new structure was formed in 2019, there were talks of eventually two more teams as the structure matures. Ehsan Mani mentioned the same in one of his recent interviews.

Talent pool of young players have since grown as well so is it the right time for the expansion of the domestic structure? It will create more opportunities with new teams as well as the increased number of matches. Your take and how it should be executed?

 

[Fenrir]

Two more teams in domestic cricket will not do any harm.PSL should stick with 6 teams.

 

[MenInG]

Think adding more teams would be good and give some comfort to the players as well. Lets try 2 more teams and see if that improves things but more importantly, we need to get rid of the players who are past their sell by date - Extra teams should not be meant to accommodate them.

 

[Markhor]

Only if someone can inform me of the superstars and future legends who are missing out because of 6 team structure.

There are even 6 2nd XI teams where players have earned promotion to a FC team.

 

[hitthestump]

Only if someone can inform me of the superstars and future legends who are missing out because of 6 team structure.

There are even 6 2nd XI teams where players have earned promotion to a FC team.

Exactly. Looking at the state of Balochistan for example, 6 teams sometimes feels like too many.

It's only been a couple of years with this system, it's produced perfectly reasonable cricket so far, give it a bit longer to see the results before shaking anything up.

 

[Titan24]

Only if someone can inform me of the superstars and future legends who are missing out because of 6 team structure.

There are even 6 2nd XI teams where players have earned promotion to a FC team.

I have been a fond of new system as you know and have shared the reasons numerous times. I mentioned when the system was initiated that 6 teams considering the current talent and pipeline is enough and later 1 or two teams can be added. I believe other than Balochistan which I think can get better players, all other teams do have quite a few players on their benches who compete with the rest of the teams if they get a decent run. With new domestic structure alongside the start of city cricket and junior level cricket the pipeline of decent young cricketers is looking in a reasonably well rounded shape after a long time.

Difficult to surely predict who will be a future superstar or legend.

There are quite a few who could have been given chance but were not at the right time in the last season but cant blame the coaches alone as for some they have plenty in the squad to choose from so becomes difficult to adjust everyone.

I will discuss a few examples, again not saying they are future stars but, how can anybody be a star if they are performers in 2nd XI but don't get much opportunities with the main team to develop. Not every star is born before playing much domestic cricket, most in the other countries around gradually develop by playing the games with other top players so we have to take that into account. I think with city cricket now operative alongside club cricket, 2nd XI and U19 cricket being reasonably streamlined, potentially good players out of those possibly needs more avenues for expression. So its a question whether its the right time to expand the domestic structure, I think its the right time to put that up and ofcourse answers can and will vary.

Just from top of my head.

Aamir Azmat 23 years old tall top order batsman who was the highest scorer in 2nd xi T20 tournament, took 4 wickets as well with his medium pace didn’t get a game with main KPK side. Played 5 matches (3 innings) for Multan Sultans and scored a good 33 off 22 balls vs LQ, a match which MS won.

Gauher Hafeez (22) from Central Punjab was 2nd highest scorer and SR was 183 as an opener. There was a knock he played of 140 odd runs in 60 balls vs Bal 2nd XI which included FC veterans as well like Taj Wali, Jalat Khan and Gohar Faiz.

Saad Khan (22) from Sindh impressed in the QAE trophy however, before that he averaged 28 with the bat in 2nd XI T20 competition, took 5 wickets in 5 matches with one of the best economies of 7.08. Didnt get a single T20 game for Sindh and later was only able to play 5 matches of Pakistan Cup.

Nabi Gul has been part of many junior teams and is known for his ability to play strokes as well as hit it big, he has performed for 2nd XI KPK team as well when he has played. He is 24 years old and so far has only played 9 List A matches and 13 T20 matches. Got a chance in QAE this season and scored 2 100s in the season.

Munir Riaz averages 24 in FC cricket in 4 matches and over the last two years couldnt get much games with the Northern team due to the competition around.

Saim Ayub (20) was one of the best 2nd XI 3day performer averaging 53 with 3 100s but, didnt get a single 4 day game for Sindh. Later was given opportunity in List A format by Sindh in 4 matches where he scored 192 runs @48 and SR of 115.

Arish Ali Khan SLA (22) took 27 wickets in 5 2nd XI 3day matches and couldn't get a single game for Sindh.

For teenage players there will be more chances to grow going forward however, for the players who are 22-24 they need to get in the main competition when they are in form. Otherwise it would be difficult for them to grow at a pace they should and meanwhile if anyone of them does extremely well when he atlast gets an opportunity then just like early selection of Abdullah Shafique, Naseem Shah etc we will be criticizing that how they haven't played much FC cricket.

Mohammad Sarwar Afridi (27) was one of the best batting all rounder (Pacer) in 2nd XI 3day competition 2021 but, couldnt get a game for KPK. Later got opportunity in List A cricket, scored 406 runs @51 including a 100 and took 5 wickets at an avg of 22 with economy of 4.66.

Ehsan Adil (29) someone with international experience and having been one of the better FC pacers since the new domestic structure was only able to play couple of games for CP last season.

As mentioned these are mainly just few who performed in 2nd XI and couldn't get the opportunities in the format with the main team and might not get much in future considering some of the squads let alone if all national team players are available. Or others who might not be young but, have done enough in the new domestic structure to get more platforms to impress.

 

[Titan24]

Exactly. Looking at the state of Balochistan for example, 6 teams sometimes feels like too many.

It's only been a couple of years with this system, it's produced perfectly reasonable cricket so far, give it a bit longer to see the results before shaking anything up.

Its due to the lack of infrastructural development with regards to cricket in Balochistan previously and now emphasis of giving ultimately 50% slots to local players at some point. Of course the transition will take some time but, I think its the right step for the region as that is only how we can get the regional cricket to develop there. Otherwise quite a few players currently on the benches of other teams would have made the team stronger overall as was just proved by Adbullah Shafique who represented them in some matches of National T20 as well as Asad Shafique who had international experience and hit a good form for them in List A cricket contributing to help them with the Pakistan Cup.

So dont think its valid to talk about Balochistan's squad as a way to say that we cant even make six teams at the moment without taking into account all the factors.

 

[Markhor]

I have been a fond of new system as you know and have shared the reasons numerous times. I mentioned when the system was initiated that 6 teams considering the current talent and pipeline is enough and later 1 or two teams can be added. I believe other than Balochistan which I think can get better players, all other teams do have quite a few players on their benches who compete with the rest of the teams if they get a decent run. With new domestic structure alongside the start of city cricket and junior level cricket the pipeline of decent young cricketers is looking in a reasonably well rounded shape after a long time.

Difficult to surely predict who will be a future superstar or legend.

There are quite a few who could have been given chance but were not at the right time in the last season but cant blame the coaches alone as for some they have plenty in the squad to choose from so becomes difficult to adjust everyone.

I will discuss a few examples, again not saying they are future stars but, how can anybody be a star if they are performers in 2nd XI but don't get much opportunities with the main team to develop. Not every star is born before playing much domestic cricket, most in the other countries around gradually develop by playing the games with other top players so we have to take that into account. I think with city cricket now operative alongside club cricket, 2nd XI and U19 cricket being reasonably streamlined, potentially good players out of those possibly needs more avenues for expression. So its a question whether its the right time to expand the domestic structure, I think its the right time to put that up and ofcourse answers can and will vary.

Just from top of my head.

Aamir Azmat 23 years old tall top order batsman who was the highest scorer in 2nd xi T20 tournament, took 4 wickets as well with his medium pace didn’t get a game with main KPK side. Played 5 matches (3 innings) for Multan Sultans and scored a good 33 off 22 balls vs LQ, a match which MS won.

Gauher Hafeez (22) from Central Punjab was 2nd highest scorer and SR was 183 as an opener. There was a knock he played of 140 odd runs in 60 balls vs Bal 2nd XI which included FC veterans as well like Taj Wali, Jalat Khan and Gohar Faiz.

Saad Khan (22) from Sindh impressed in the QAE trophy however, before that he averaged 28 with the bat in 2nd XI T20 competition, took 5 wickets in 5 matches with one of the best economies of 7.08. Didnt get a single T20 game for Sindh and later was only able to play 5 matches of Pakistan Cup.

Nabi Gul has been part of many junior teams and is known for his ability to play strokes as well as hit it big, he has performed for 2nd XI KPK team as well when he has played. He is 24 years old and so far has only played 9 List A matches and 13 T20 matches. Got a chance in QAE this season and scored 2 100s in the season.

Munir Riaz averages 24 in FC cricket in 4 matches and over the last two years couldnt get much games with the Northern team due to the competition around.

Saim Ayub (20) was one of the best 2nd XI 3day performer averaging 53 with 3 100s but, didnt get a single 4 day game for Sindh. Later was given opportunity in List A format by Sindh in 4 matches where he scored 192 runs @48 and SR of 115.

Arish Ali Khan SLA (22) took 27 wickets in 5 2nd XI 3day matches and couldn't get a single game for Sindh.

For teenage players there will be more chances to grow going forward however, for the players who are 22-24 they need to get in the main competition when they are in form. Otherwise it would be difficult for them to grow at a pace they should and meanwhile if anyone of them does extremely well when he atlast gets an opportunity then just like early selection of Abdullah Shafique, Naseem Shah etc we will be criticizing that how they haven't played much FC cricket.

Mohammad Sarwar Afridi (27) was one of the best batting all rounder (Pacer) in 2nd XI 3day competition 2021 but, couldnt get a game for KPK. Later got opportunity in List A cricket, scored 406 runs @51 including a 100 and took 5 wickets at an avg of 22 with economy of 4.66.

Ehsan Adil (29) someone with international experience and having been one of the better FC pacers since the new domestic structure was only able to play couple of games for CP last season.

As mentioned these are mainly just few who performed in 2nd XI and couldn't get the opportunities in the format with the main team and might not get much in future considering some of the squads let alone if all national team players are available. Or others who might not be young but, have done enough in the new domestic structure to get more platforms to impress.

There's also the example of spinner Abrar Ahmed who took wickets for fun for Sindh's 2nd XI at 11 apiece, got promoted to Sindh's FC team and was exposed in 5 QEA matches averaging 49.

2nd XI performances should be given due merit but cannot be the only criteria for selection. During the first two seasons of 2nd XI, contests were typically low scoring (47 sub-200 scores in 2020/21 compared to 17 in that season's QEA) on poor pitches. Infact I believe they initially continued using the Grays balls, so those numbers must be taken with a grain of salt.

If there's youngsters who haven't received adequate opportunities then surely the fault lies with the coaches and selectors not the format ? The format is not forcing teams to pick Jalat Khan, Akbar-ur-Rehman and other domestic journeymen. The QEA Trophy is also typically scheduled during Pakistan's international commitments and Shaheens tours - that's 30-40 players out of the FC setup. While we cannot guarantee playing time for every single Pakistani cricketer - there's still ample opportunities for most fringe players.

For every name you mention, there's Abdul Bangalzai, Haseebullah, Mohammad Huraira, Haider Ali and others who haven't been disadvantaged by 6 team format.

There's also practical obstacles to FC expansion like amending the PCB constitution to enable creation of more regional CAs, and finding sponsorship to ensure those new regions are financially sustainable.

 

[Xoib]

There's also the example of spinner Abrar Ahmed who took wickets for fun for Sindh's 2nd XI at 11 apiece, got promoted to Sindh's FC team and was exposed in 5 QEA matches averaging 49.

2nd XI performances should be given due merit but cannot be the only criteria for selection. During the first two seasons of 2nd XI, contests were typically low scoring (47 sub-200 scores in 2020/21 compared to 17 in that season's QEA) on poor pitches. Infact I believe they initially continued using the Grays balls, so those numbers must be taken with a grain of salt.

If there's youngsters who haven't received adequate opportunities then surely the fault lies with the coaches and selectors not the format ? The format is not forcing teams to pick Jalat Khan, Akbar-ur-Rehman and other domestic journeymen. The QEA Trophy is also typically scheduled during Pakistan's international commitments and Shaheens tours - that's 30-40 players out of the FC setup. While we cannot guarantee playing time for every single Pakistani cricketer - there's still ample opportunities for most fringe players.

For every name you mention, there's Abdul Bangalzai, Haseebullah, Mohammad Huraira, Haider Ali and others who haven't been disadvantaged by 6 team format.

There's also practical obstacles to FC expansion like amending the PCB constitution to enable creation of more regional CAs, and finding sponsorship to ensure those new regions are financially sustainable.

What are you on about abrar has 33 wickets in 7 fc games @30 not outstanding but decent enough to justify first xi promotion.

 

[Markhor]

What are you on about abrar has 33 wickets in 7 fc games @30 not outstanding but decent enough to justify first xi promotion.

Where did I say he didn't deserve promotion to First XI ?

I'm saying Abrar hasn't come close to replicating those freaky 2nd XI numbers in QEA Trophy which shows the big gulf between FC and 2nd XI cricket.

He took 57 wickets from six 2nd XI matches at 11. Yet in his debut QEA season (20/21) he averaged 49 from five matches. This season he improved taking 17 wickets from two matches - but 11 of those were against perennial minnows Balochistan.

I'm not criticising him, he's young and can improve, but his 2nd XI bowling avg is nearly 3x better than his QEA avg which tells me the batting standards in 2nd XI is seriously suspect. And more to the point - don't expand the number of FC teams until the grassroots talent base improves otherwise we will dilute the quality of QEA.

 

[shamaan]

Where did I say he didn't deserve promotion to First XI ?

I'm saying Abrar hasn't come close to replicating those freaky 2nd XI numbers in QEA Trophy which shows the big gulf between FC and 2nd XI cricket.

He took 57 wickets from six 2nd XI matches at 11. Yet in his debut QEA season (20/21) he averaged 49 from five matches. This season he improved taking 17 wickets from two matches - but 11 of those were against perennial minnows Balochistan.

I'm not criticising him, he's young and can improve, but his 2nd XI bowling avg is nearly 3x better than his QEA avg which tells me the batting standards in 2nd XI is seriously suspect. And more to the point - don't expand the number of FC teams until the grassroots talent base improves otherwise we will dilute the quality of QEA.

What are the other criteria for getting into the first xi ?

 

[Markhor]

What are the other criteria for getting into the first xi ?

There should be multiple criteria for FC selection:

A) Consistent performances over multiple 2nd XI seasons not the odd good knock or spell here and there.
B) Fitness test results
C) Fielding standards (which have remained awful across the board even in revamped structure)
D) Is that 2nd XI player better than the 1st XI player for that position ?
E) Tactical understanding of the game
F) Mentality - how hard do they work in practice and outside of the team ? Do they have a desire to improve ? How do they interact with teammates.

Again, I'm not saying disregard 2nd XI performances but it's ridiculous to pull up numbers without context. Do you seriously think professional full-time international selectors are only reading tournament averages to determine selections ?

Anyway the onus is not on me to justify why there shouldn't be more than 6 FC teams but on the people demanding more teams. Nobody's said how are these new regions going to financially sustain themselves ? Who will sponsor them ?

Let's hear views backed up with logic and facts, not emotional dramabaazi like XYZ is driving Uber, ABC needs a job, this youngster can't get a game. PCB is not a jobs bureau. I don't want to return to the old system run by the mafia where format changed every year, there were 16+ teams full of mediocre journeymen, crap pitches, youngsters lost in the system, old pot bellied uncles carried on playing well past their prime, energy companies playing banks and zero public interest.

 

[shamaan]

There should be multiple criteria for FC selection:

A) Consistent performances over multiple 2nd XI seasons not the odd good knock or spell here and there.
B) Fitness test results
C) Fielding standards (which have remained awful across the board even in revamped structure)
D) Is that 2nd XI player better than the 1st XI player for that position ?
E) Tactical understanding of the game
F) Mentality - how hard do they work in practice and outside of the team ? Do they have a desire to improve ? How do they interact with teammates.

Again, I'm not saying disregard 2nd XI performances but it's ridiculous to pull up numbers without context. Do you seriously think professional full-time international selectors are only reading tournament averages to determine selections ?

Anyway the onus is not on me to justify why there shouldn't be more than 6 FC teams but on the people demanding more teams. Nobody's said how are these new regions going to financially sustain themselves ? Who will sponsor them ?

Let's hear views backed up with logic and facts, not emotional dramabaazi like XYZ is driving Uber, ABC needs a job, this youngster can't get a game. PCB is not a jobs bureau. I don't want to return to the old system run by the mafia where format changed every year, there were 16+ teams full of mediocre journeymen, crap pitches, youngsters lost in the system, old pot bellied uncles carried on playing well past their prime, energy companies playing banks and zero public interest.

So you are okay with Hurraira,Abdullah,Rauf getting a chance to play in the first xi who have only played less than a hand full of games but not other players am pretty much sure Ibrar bowled well against Balochistan but then didn't play after that for the first xi.

Fitness results such as Azam Khan,Sameen Gull and sharjeel Khan they may be good players but they are setting the wrong message.


However I agree that thier number of teams should remain the same but players who have shown promise in the second xi can be brought into the squad even if its as a squad player.

 

[Markhor]

So you are okay with Hurraira,Abdullah,Rauf getting a chance to play in the first xi who have only played less than a hand full of games but not other players am pretty much sure Ibrar bowled well against Balochistan but then didn't play after that for the first xi.

Fitness results such as Azam Khan,Sameen Gull and sharjeel Khan they may be good players but they are setting the wrong message.


However I agree that thier number of teams should remain the same but players who have shown promise in the second xi can be brought into the squad even if its as a squad player.

I agree with that and you make some fair points - I'm not against fast-tracking someone like Huraira if they're an exceptional talent. My point is simply you cannot guarantee every 2nd XI performer a run in 1st XI, and if there's deserving 2nd XI players excluded then the FC coaches should be blamed not the format.

Look for the first time in 70 years after so much chopping and changing, we finally have a functioning domestic system with vastly improved quality of cricket. It's not perfect but let's give it a chance for another 5-10 years. It would honestly kill my remaining passion for Pakistan cricket if the mafia revives the old corrupt system and we go back to square one.

 

[wrongun]

Exactly. Looking at the state of Balochistan for example, 6 teams sometimes feels like too many.

It's only been a couple of years with this system, it's produced perfectly reasonable cricket so far, give it a bit longer to see the results before shaking anything up.

Attention needs to go to grassroots & club/junior systems feeding into FC/2nd XI now. FOcus on that for 3-5 years UNTIL you have an oversupply or strong talent flow into FC.

THEN you can think about expanding FC if necessary because the supply is there and it can be done not by diluting teams, but to accomodate emerging quality.

 

[shamaan]

I agree with that and you make some fair points - I'm not against fast-tracking someone like Huraira if they're an exceptional talent. My point is simply you cannot guarantee every 2nd XI performer a run in 1st XI, and if there's deserving 2nd XI players excluded then the FC coaches should be blamed not the format.

Look for the first time in 70 years after so much chopping and changing, we finally have a functioning domestic system with vastly improved quality of cricket. It's not perfect but let's give it a chance for another 5-10 years. It would honestly kill my remaining passion for Pakistan cricket if the mafia revives the old corrupt system and we go back to square one.

Yes I agree the coaches should be blamed and not the format.but it's good that we are stating to see that more youngsters are getting a chance.