Two-Tier Test system: Is it the way forward?

Are you in favour of a Two-Tier setup for Test cricket?

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
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From what I understand it's all losses for SA unless India or England tour.

So CSA only make a profit or break even when Ind or Eng tour?, wonder what it is like for the West Indies and NZ and so on? I thought CSA would make someething when Aus tour so bit suprised by that, show's how test cricket is unsustainable for pretty much for all the boards outside of the big 3 and even then ECB and CA probably only really make a profit when one of the big 3 tour each other
 
I understand yes when the big 3 tour some of the other countries in particular India they make a lot of money but for example what about some of the other nations?

So it seems CSA made losses in the previous years of 22-23, 21-22 and 20-21, but I think some of them years are losses due to the pandemic as well? Would be interesting to see if NZ make any money without the big 3 touring or are those years losses when none of the big 3 tour

Forget SA, even cricket Australia suffered a big loss around that period.
 
Two tier system is absurd, understandable Big 3 will play 5 game series between them home and away thrice in two years, what about the rest will SA & Pak play 10 games between them in 3 years. Will Eng host Pak once in 3 years for a 4 or 5 match series unlikely.

This tier drama is being done to ensure out of 365 days 70 are wasted via IPL , the next 20-30 in ICC tournaments and next 130-140 series between big 3 , whatever is leftover goes to the remaining teams.

BTW it's 365-70-30-140= 125 days of Big 3 available for remaining 4 teams
 
So CSA only make a profit or break even when Ind or Eng tour?, wonder what it is like for the West Indies and NZ and so on? I thought CSA would make someething when Aus tour so bit suprised by that, show's how test cricket is unsustainable for pretty much for all the boards outside of the big 3 and even then ECB and CA probably only really make a profit when one of the big 3 tour each other

For the West Indies, it's England tours . Even they primarily prefer India for white ball tours.
 
The organisation reported a $31.9m loss for 2023-24 on Thursday, the third highest in the past decade, trailing $52m in 2016-17 and $43m in 2019-20.
That was last year with Pakistan and West Indies touring Australia, so CA only make a profit in the years of either an Ashes series or the BGT taking place any other series is loss making for them in that year
 
For the West Indies, it's England tours . Even they primarily prefer India for white ball tours.
https://newsday.co.tt/2024/03/28/cricket-west-indies-records-revenue-of-us62-3m-for-2023/

According to this article WI cricket made net income of 14.25 million US dollars in 2023 but not sure who exactly toured them etc in that time period and they had deficits in the previous years. Will be intereesting to see their balance and so on for the year 2024 with them being co hosts of the T20 World Cup and they had an England LO tour at the backend of 2024.
 
https://newsday.co.tt/2024/03/28/cricket-west-indies-records-revenue-of-us62-3m-for-2023/

According to this article WI cricket made net income of 14.25 million US dollars in 2023 but not sure who exactly toured them etc in that time period and they had deficits in the previous years. Will be intereesting to see their balance and so on for the year 2024 with them being co hosts of the T20 World Cup and they had an England LO tour at the backend of 2024.

India and England toured in 2022 and then India toured again in 2023
 
India and England toured in 2022 and then India toured again in 2023
So basically the non big 3 boards will basically be recording losses without the big 3 touring them basically, if the two tier system was to be put in place West Indies would lost out on a lot and would incur regular losses due to no Eng/Ind tours unless some sort of side agreement can be agreed or some alternative arrangement can be finalised.
 
So basically the non big 3 boards will basically be recording losses without the big 3 touring them basically, if the two tier system was to be put in place West Indies would lost out on a lot and would incur regular losses due to no Eng/Ind tours unless some sort of side agreement can be agreed or some alternative arrangement can be finalised.

But even for India tour , I believe they prefer the white ball leg. So lack of Test tours from India may not be an issue.

But only getting Test tours from ZIM, BD , AFG etc. would have severe consequences.

Maybe Tier 2 Tests should happen without any DRS which can cut costs significantly for the Tier 2 boards
 
But even for India tour , I believe they prefer the white ball leg. So lack of Test tours from India may not be an issue.

But only getting Test tours from ZIM, BD , AFG etc. would have severe consequences.

Maybe Tier 2 Tests should happen without any DRS which can cut costs significantly for the Tier 2 boards
Perhaps getting rid of DRS will cut costs, if there are two tiers I think there will need to be some sort of additional funding or a test match fund there has been talk of this before for the tier 2 teams to compensate for the lack of bigger tours unless the big 3 arrange additional games with some of the tier 2 countries outside of a potential future FTP. I mean from an England point of view their fans love to tour the Caribbean so missing out on that would probably not go down well

Long term I can only seen test cricket being played by 5/6 countries the way things are heading, Eng, Aus, Ind, SA perhaps, NZ and possibly SL. I don't see Pakistan playing it for too much longer, crowds are rubbish and PCB do not seem too interested in playing tests they prefer the T20s $$
 
Test cricket should only be played by the top 6-7 teams. The rest should stick to T20 and the leagues, perhaps ODIs.
Which keen follower of the game would like to watch test matches between Zimbabawe, West Indies, Bangladesh, Afghanistan and the like?
 
Should Test cricket have two tiers - or would that be 'terrible' for some nations?

The future of Test cricket is always a hotly-debated topic within the sport.

It has been that way ever since the proliferation of franchise T20 competitions began with the Indian Premier League in 2008.

That tournament has become a juggernaut and other white-ball showcases have sprung up around the world, including the Big Bash, The Hundred, the Pakistan Super League and SA20.

It has left Test cricket fighting to win eyeballs, stay relevant and even retain players, with constant conversations had over how to keep the purest form of the game part of the game.

A new report from Australian newspaper the Melbourne Age has suggested that ICC chair Jay Shah will soon meet with his counterparts from England and Australia to discuss a potential two-tier system.

That could see a seven-side top flight of England, Australia, India, South Africa, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and New Zealand, with the other Test nations - West Indies, Bangladesh, Ireland, Afghanistan and Zimbabwe - in a second division.

In that scenario - and it cannot happen until the end of the Future Tours Programme and next World Test Championship cycle in mid-2027 - marquee series could take place on a more frequent basis with two Ashes contests every three years as opposed to the current two in four.

Atherton: I am fine with divisions but not tiers

In that sense, the appeal for two tiers is obvious but Sky Sports Cricket pundit and former England captain Michael Atherton says any new structure must allow for movement between the leagues and not create an "entrenched elite".

He told the Sky Sports Cricket Podcast: "Tiers and divisions are two different things. Divisions implies, to me at least, a chance of promotion and relegation. I'd be fine with that.

"But I'd be anti-tiers where there is no chance for the bottom tier to get into the top tier and it becomes an entrenched elite."

A proposal for two divisions in Test cricket was rejected by India in 2016 due to a fear of further widening the gap between the format's top-performing teams and the rest.

That must be a concern again now, with the appetite to feature in Test cricket for players in a second division perhaps diminishing, certainly if no chance of promotion was on the cards.

Lloyd: You only improve playing the best

Sir Clive Lloyd, who captained West Indies during their golden period in the 1970 and 1980s, is "disturbed" by the idea of a two-tier set-up and wants those struggling Test nations to challenge themselves against the best more often.

He said: "I think it will be terrible for all those countries who worked so hard to get the Test status. Now they'll be playing among themselves in the lower section.

"How are they going to make it to the top? When you play against better teams. That's how you know how good you are, or how bad you are. I am very disturbed.

"The better system would be to give the teams the same amount of money so they can get the tools to improve.

''We struggle a lot, we need special dispensation. Some at the bottom are not playing Test matches and some are playing a world of Test matches. The system is not right.

"They have to sit down and work it out, that's what they're there for. That's their duty, that's their job to do that.

"We [West Indies] were the cash cows for a lot of countries over the years … people must recognise that. But we are at that situation now where we need the help, and we can't get it."

Hussain: Test cricket has been fabulous recently

West Indies are currently eighth in the ICC Test rankings and have won only three of their last 17 matches in the format - against Zimbabwe, Bangladesh and Australia.

That victory against Australia, in Brisbane in January 2024, was a thriller of a game with fast bowler Shamar Joseph taking seven wickets with a busted toe as the tourists won by eight runs.

That began a year of Test cricket that included Sri Lanka beating England at The Kia Oval, New Zealand inflicting a first series defeat on India at home since 2012, and Australia and India playing out an absorbing Border-Gavaskar Trophy series which saw a record 373,691 spectators turn up across the five days of the Boxing Day Test at the iconic Melbourne Cricket Ground.

Sky Sports' Nasser Hussain said: "Am I just being naïve? I have watched Test cricket this year and it has been absolutely fabulous, it has been box office.

"Some of the cricket, some of the crowds and some of the contests have been incredible.

"Why do people keep saying it is a difficult product to sell? I am watching great Test match cricket but people are saying it is not the product for the future."

But the success of Australia vs India, and the money series contested between these two and England generate, could convince decision makers that best vs best is the way to go.

Get rid of the 'clutter'?

It is certainly the direction former England captain Michael Vaughan sees the game heading in, writing in the Telegraph: "I have been saying for a long time the way keep Test cricket relevant is by ensuring we get fewer mis-matches.

"I believe it is a four-day product with a set number of overs each day enforced, three matches minimum per series and two divisions of six, including promotion and relegation."

Ex-India player and head coach Ravi Shastri added to SEN Radio after his nation's series in Australia, which the home side won 3-1: "It was a sound reminder to the ICC that the best should play the best for Test cricket to survive. There's too much of a clutter otherwise."

There is also the argument that lesser-ranked nations playing each other and having a greater chance to earn victories would be more enjoyable than getting a pasting from the elite.

Albeit not without its critics, football's Nations League has seen teams play those of a more equal standard, with the likes of San Marino and Gibraltar - previously perennially battered by nations including England - securing rare wins.

Two tiers for Test cricket may be palatable for the format's newest teams in Afghanistan and Ireland - provided promotion remains a possibility, of course.

Ireland have won their previous two Tests, beating Afghanistan by six wickets in the UAE and Zimbabwe in Belfast by four, after starting their tenure in the format with seven successive defeats, including two to England and a pair of innings losses in Sri Lanka.

'Test cricket will never be more than a six or seven-nation format'

For former South Africa captain Graeme Smith, Test cricket will always have fewer elite teams compared to T20 but he believes the longest format of the sport can remain in rude health.

"Test cricket, for me, is never going to be more than a six or seven-nation format," Smith told the Sky Sports Cricket Podcast.

Speaking on the Sky Sports Cricket Podcast, Graeme Smith discusses South Africa sending a weakened Test team to New Zealand as the country looked to build the SA20 competition back home

"It is never going to grow to 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 teams like T20 potentially can, so I think there should be more effort made to ensure there is a bilateral programme for Test cricket.

"If you can keep six or seven nations strong, people will always watch. If a good team comes to South Africa, we see good crowds and interest in Test cricket."

He did add, however: "World cricket needs South Africa strong, needs West Indies strong, needs Sri Lanka to get better."

South Africa guaranteed their place in the 2025 World Test Championship final at Lord's after a two-wicket victory over Pakistan in Centurion

How best to keep them strong is the question, though, and one those in charge will hopefully factor into their thinking if discussions over a two-tier system do indeed take place.

Another element will be what happens with India vs Pakistan matches, with the nations not currently playing each other outside of ICC events due to political tensions.

Even in those competitions, India will not play in Pakistan and vice versa until at least 2027 with neutral venues used for the touring side.

India, for example, will play their games in Dubai when Pakistan hosts the ICC Champions Trophy in February and March.

SOURCE: SKY SPORTS
 
Jay Shah to incompetent board's - make test cricket is top priority otherwise tier system will be implemented.

Good from ICC Chief to give them warning .

:kp
 
Probably the same team which has lost consecutive 20 tests in Aus, SA and NZ.

I think belonging in tier 1 depends on where you draw a line. If 7 teams then Pakistan has a case even if not a assured spot kind of situation due to showing up in the top 5 test nation. You can sure start making case for other teams with 7.
Regarding the Quiz answer: Pakistan has lost 17 consecutive tests in Australia against Australia starting from 1998 until now. They are the world record holder. The second best number of losing consecutive tests on opposition soil is only 9 jointly hold by India West Indies and Bangladesh. In last 30 tests played in Australia and South Africa Pakistan lost a mind-boggling number of 29 tests. Wao.

Asking this question has a context. Does Pakistan possess the quality to be in tire one if tire 1 consist of five teams? You have already answered that. My answer will be same.
 
Regarding the Quiz answer: Pakistan has lost 17 consecutive tests in Australia against Australia starting from 1998 until now. They are the world record holder. The second best number of losing consecutive tests on opposition soil is only 9 jointly hold by India West Indies and Bangladesh. In last 30 tests played in Australia and South Africa Pakistan lost a mind-boggling number of 29 tests. Wao.

Asking this question has a context. Does Pakistan possess the quality to be in tire one if tire 1 consist of five teams? You have already answered that. My answer will be same.
When you put it that way, it looks worse.

No, Pakistan does not come close to getting into the top 5 test nation and will miss tier 1 if you have 5 as cut off. Actually quality drops noticeably after the top 5 in the test format. Are you suggesting to have test cricket for only 5 teams?
 
Number of tests played each team in the last 5 years


England 63
India 49
Australia 41
New zealand 38
West Indies 37
Pakistan 36
Srilanka 36
South Africa 35
Bangladesh 33
Zimbabwe 13
Afghanistan 7
Ireland 6

Total of 197 tests


Comparatively 1980-85

Englnad 56
Austrlaia 52
West Indies 46
India 44
Pakistan 43
NZ 27
Srilanka 12


Total of 140 tests

That is a difference of 57 tests in a 5 year period due to increase in number of teams. When you add T20, world T20, world cup, ODIs, T20 leagues there is hardly any window to play each other consistently. Also hosting Tests is not such a lucrative affair for most teams. To be precise only 3 teams make money by hosting Test matches. It is somewhat a practical solution for the moment.
 
That was only 5 years

I counted from Jan 1, 1980- Dec 31, 1984
OK.

So number of tests have not really changed by much for countries. With shorter formats there are lots of games if anyone plays all formats.

I don't like WI situation here at all with this tier situation. There would have been no need for any tiers if we just had 8 tests nations.
 
OK.

So number of tests have not really changed by much for countries. With shorter formats there are lots of games if anyone plays all formats.

I don't like WI situation here at all with this tier situation. There would have been no need for any tiers if we just had 8 tests nations.
West Indies fans wants to play tests. But their board is pathetic. They let players quit tests to play T20s. Even the CPL money doesn't go to WICB like IPL money going to BCCI. I also want them to be part of the top tier. SL is not far behind. Their board is the culprit.
 
West Indies fans wants to play tests. But their board is pathetic. They let players quit tests to play T20s. Even the CPL money doesn't go to WICB like IPL money going to BCCI. I also want them to be part of the top tier. SL is not far behind. Their board is the culprit.
There is some talk to have teams based on each country. If that's the case, then test cricket is done for WI. May be WICB prefers that way. 3-4 teams with shorter fromats may have more money collectively.
 
I would go on and say reduced the maximum overs per innings to 100 to make results guaranteed alongside the two test division , it will make test cricket alive again and there will be slightly less burden on the bowler as well.
 
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