Two-Tier Test system: Is it the way forward?

[RedwoodOriginal]

Would this mean more test matches for Pakistan, NZ, South Africa and Sri Lanka or fewer?

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Would this mean more test matches for Pakistan, NZ, South Africa and Sri Lanka or fewer?

Number of Test matches is up to the individual boards. Always has been. Pakistan and South Africa could have just had a 5 match Test series even this time if both boards agreed to it bilaterally. But there's simply no incentive for either board to play more Test cricket.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

There were too contrasting articles in yesterdays telegraph. One by respected journalist Scyld Berry and one by Mike Vaughan. Both advocated the two divisions but Berry cautioned against too much cricket between big 3 ( he used Ashes saturation as an example), while Vaughan welcomed it.

Ultimately it all hinges on the Indian market. How would Indian posters feel about more frequent BGT for example? Something you could get behind or something you would quickly get bored of? Scyld used the example of back to back Ashes that happened a few years go as something that shouldn't be repeated.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Number of Test matches is up to the individual boards. Always has been. Pakistan and South Africa could have just had a 5 match Test series even this time if both boards agreed to it bilaterally. But there's simply no incentive for either board to play more Test cricket.

I am asking because with these teams not playing West Indies, Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, that should free up space for more tests between each other. A two match test series between South Africa and West Indies in South Africa for example may not generate alot of eye-balls. But if you scrapped that and added one more test each to the test series you had with Pakistan and Sri Lanka, then that could make sense.

 

[Fanboy375]

Yes same Pakistan team were refused to host bangladesh in the UAE because they were not worthy to host it there but when they did host them in pakistan , they were whitewashed by them

Same Ban team who Ind can defeat even if there are plenty of rains to ruin 2-3 days

 

[Nikhil_cric]

There were too contrasting articles in yesterdays telegraph. One by respected journalist Scyld Berry and one by Mike Vaughan. Both advocated the two divisions but Berry cautioned against too much cricket between big 3 ( he used Ashes saturation as an example), while Vaughan welcomed it.

Ultimately it all hinges on the Indian market. How would Indian posters feel about more frequent BGT for example? Something you could get behind or something you would quickly get bored of? Scyld used the example of back to back Ashes that happened a few years go as something that shouldn't be repeated.

It would become extremely saturated. In fact, it already is. There's only so much cricket that the Indian public can stomach. Especially after a long IPL and other white ball cricket.

While Indian tours may be profitable for CA and ECB, I'm not sure any home Test series , even England tour, is profitable for the BCCI
.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

I am asking because with these teams not playing West Indies, Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, that should free up space for more tests between each other. A two match test series between South Africa and West Indies in South Africa for example may not generate alot of eye-balls. But if you scrapped that and added one more test each to the test series you had with Pakistan and Sri Lanka, then that could make sense.

Even if that's the case Im not sure of the viewership. SL Test tour barely got any crowds.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

It would become extremely saturated. In fact, it already is. There's only so much cricket that the Indian public can stomach. Especially after a long IPL and other white ball cricket.

While Indian tours may be profitable for CA and ECB, I'm not sure any home Test series , even England tour, is profitable for the BCCI
.

I would think so too. It seems like they could potentially be killing the goose that laid the golden egg with these proposals.

My own vision for two tier test system is actually less test cricket - but something that is perhaps more evenly matched and competitive. For the most part, it will allow countries to play teams at similar levels, but say, for example, West Indies unearth a Brian Lara or Malcolm Marshall, they can compete again at the top for a bit. Teams can play a few tests a year, enough to keep interested in the format.

A two tier system with more test cricket will kill the game.

 

[gazza619]

I would think so too. It seems like they could potentially be killing the goose that laid the golden egg with these proposals.

My own vision for two tier test system is actually less test cricket - but something that is perhaps more evenly matched and competitive. For the most part, it will allow countries to play teams at similar levels, but say, for example, West Indies unearth a Brian Lara or Malcolm Marshall, they can compete again at the top for a bit. Teams can play a few tests a year, enough to keep interested in the format.

A two tier system with more test cricket will kill the game.

Who can explain this to Mr dumb cash hungry Jay Shah

 

[Nikhil_cric]

I would think so too. It seems like they could potentially be killing the goose that laid the golden egg with these proposals.

My own vision for two tier test system is actually less test cricket - but something that is perhaps more evenly matched and competitive. For the most part, it will allow countries to play teams at similar levels, but say, for example, West Indies unearth a Brian Lara or Malcolm Marshall, they can compete again at the top for a bit. Teams can play a few tests a year, enough to keep interested in the format.

A two tier system with more test cricket will kill the game.

Yeah I agree with this. The key is to play less Test cricket even if it's a 2 Tier system.

Imo, Cricket South Africa have done a great job over the last 2-3 years. They have cut down on the volume of Tests they are playing and managed to get best out of their players across all 3 formats.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Who can explain this to Mr dumb cash hungry Jay Shah

It doesn't need to be explained, trial and error is always the best teacher.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Who can explain this to Mr dumb cash hungry Jay Shah

I actually don't think it's Jay Shah or the Indians pushing it. Its more likely the Aussies and the English. India has enough money via its IPL. From an Indian perspective their will always be demand for cricket and they will make money regardless. It's the others who need to play India to line their pockets.

 

[shamaan]

It is a good idea. If Pakistan is in tier 2 then so be it. We should aim to work hard and get into tier 1.

We are definitely a tier 1 team.

 

[gazza619]

It doesn't need to be explained, trial and error is always the best teacher.

Sometimes the damage cant be reversed though.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

We are definitely a tier 1 team.

We are 7th in WTC out of 8 and 7 in rankings out of 10.

We recently got white washed by Bangladesh ( a division 2 side).

It's time to face reality brother.

 

[Devadwal]

It would become extremely saturated. In fact, it already is. There's only so much cricket that the Indian public can stomach. Especially after a long IPL and other white ball cricket.

While Indian tours may be profitable for CA and ECB, I'm not sure any home Test series , even England tour, is profitable for the BCCI
.

No test cricket popularity is increasing in india and india player's ( barring one ,two) are very desperate to Play test cricket unlike some other team's.

This is rubbish claim that test cricket popularity is going down.

Test cricket is always priority for BCCI,indian player's and fans . T20 cricket is also important but not at the expense of test cricket in India atleast.

I would rather watch india is going to Play test cricket with Australia, england, South Africa and NZ.

Sane feeling is not there whenever we olay against Bangladesh, WI Lanka etc.

 

[shamaan]

We are 7th in WTC out of 8 and 7 in rankings out of 10.

We recently got white washed by Bangladesh ( a division 2 side).

It's time to face reality brother.

We beat England after that.We have played Australia,England and South Africa.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

No test cricket popularity is increasing in india and india player's ( barring one ,two) are very desperate to Play test cricket unlike some other team's.

This is rubbish claim that test cricket popularity is going down.

Test cricket is always priority for BCCI,indian player's and fans . T20 cricket is also important but not at the expense of test cricket in India atleast.

I would rather watch india is going to Play test cricket with Australia, england, South Africa and NZ.

Sane feeling is not there whenever we olay against Bangladesh, WI Lanka etc.

Show me some data that Test cricket is profitable for BCCI and then we can talk about this.

 

[Devadwal]

Show me some data that Test cricket is profitable for BCCI and then we can talk about this.

If test cricket is not profitable for BCCI they may not have increased the test matches fees in the name of " test cricket incentive scheme" in the last year .test cricket is BCCI top priority along with the IPL

 

[Nikhil_cric]

If test cricket is not profitable for BCCI they may not have increased the test matches fees in the name of " test cricket incentive scheme" in the last year .test cricket is BCCI top priority along with the IPL

No. That doesn't prove profitability at all.

 

[Devadwal]

No. That doesn't prove profitability at all.

Show me your source that test cricket is not profitable for BCCI ?

 

[Fenrir]

Going from 7 or 8 nation sports to 100 nation sports must be an easy gig lol

Nothing is easy but it is possible to have a good team.There are many Pakistanis of African heritage called Sheedis who are very good at football.I am not saying Pakistan will win the football cup straight away.Many poor African countries with small populations are good at football because it is their national sport.

 

[RexRex]

Sir Clive Lloyd and Fazeer Mohammed are furious at the two-tier proposal.

Fazeer: "India were treated like dogs for 80 years, now they're treating others like it."

 

[Kianig89]

More and more games between big 3 means, no more minnow bashing may be less average for batsmen how will this impact the players.

Ind v Aus in oct/Nov followed by Aus v Eng in Dec/Jan followed by Ind v Eng in Feb/Mar followed by Eng v Ind in May/June.


Viewers will definitely get bored and what if any of the Big 3 is whitewashed 15-0,

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Sir Clive Lloyd and Fazeer Mohammed are furious at the two-tier proposal.

Fazeer: "India were treated like dogs for 80 years, now they're treating others like it."

How come Sir Clive Lloyd looks younger now than he did 30 years ago?

Props to Fazeer as well for rocking the best billy goat beard in a generation.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I feel quite sorry was WIndies. It would have been more palatable for them if Pakistan and Sri Lanka were also relegated.

 

[Markhor]

2 Divisions of 6 with promotion and relegation is worth thinking about, but the devil's in the details. Perhaps along the lines of:

- Every team plays one home or away series against the other in a two year cycle. Short cycles would ensure continual opportunity for the Division 2 sides to progress upwards.

- The bottom team of Division 1 is relegated and the top team in Division 2 is promoted.

- Simplified points system with 3 points for a series win and 1 point for a drawn series. Perhaps an extra point for winning away. Scrap these percentages.

- Continue holding the WTC Final between the top two teams in Division 1. Perhaps consider a Division 2 play-off to give them a marquee event too akin to the Championship Play-Off Final every year at Wembley.

 

[Buffet]

2 Divisions of 6 with promotion and relegation is worth thinking about, but the devil's in the details. Perhaps along the lines of:

- Every team plays one home or away series against the other in a two year cycle. Short cycles would ensure continual opportunity for the Division 2 sides to progress upwards.

- The bottom team of Division 1 is relegated and the top team in Division 2 is promoted.

- Simplified points system with 3 points for a series win and 1 point for a drawn series. Perhaps an extra point for winning away. Scrap these percentages.

- Continue holding the WTC Final between the top two teams in Division 1. Perhaps consider a Division 2 play-off to give them a marquee event too akin to the Championship Play-Off Final every year at Wembley.

I don't think Big 3 will take the risk of not appearing in the first tier.

This tier talk is not driven by desire to make tests cricket better. It's driven mostly by finance and marketing the series. BCCI may still survive due to IPL money in lower tier, but what will happen to finances of CA and ECB if teams get into lower tier. Aus is less likely but Eng can land into second tier for some period and I don't think it will be acceptable for Big 3.

You are coming up with fairness and what may be good, but I think it's simply about marketing and finance. Sad but true.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I don't think Big 3 will take the risk of not appearing in the first tier.

This tier talk is not driven by desire to make tests cricket better. It's driven mostly by finance and marketing the series. BCCI may still survive due to IPL money in lower tier, but what will happen to finances of CA and ECB if teams get into lower tier. Aus is less likely but Eng can land into second tier for some period and I don't think it will be acceptable for Big 3.

You are coming up with fairness and what may be good, but I think it's simply about marketing and finance. Sad but true.

I don't think England is in any danger of finishing at 6 in Tests. They are a better side than that.

 

[Buffet]

I don't think England is in any danger of finishing at 6 in Tests. They are a better side than that.

Agree, it's not likely right now. I meant over a longer time.

I suspect, if they go with relegation and and if any big 3 is at 6th rank, system will be scrapped. Big 3 are not going to lose oppurtunity to play marquee series like Ahses, BGT and Ind-Eng.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Agree, it's not likely right now. I meant over a longer time.

I suspect, if they go with relegation and and if any big 3 is at 6th rank, system will be scrapped. Big 3 are not going to lose oppurtunity to play marquee series like Ahses, BGT and Ind-Eng.

I am not sure how the relegation is going to work. Will they ask no.6 team in tier 1 play with no.1 team from tier 2 and decide who should be in the tier 1?

 

[BDfanforever]

I also dont think there is any point to tier 2 system. They can just scrap that and tell tier 2 teams to focus heavily on LOIs as that is the future of Cricket and that is what brings in revenue for those teams anyway. Whatever interest BD folks has on Test Cricket it will be end of it with constant BD vs ZIM, IRE, AFG matches. WI also wont be all that threatening in BD pitches.

Test Cricket can stay within Tier 1 teams and they can do whatever with it. However, as a compensation, I wouldnt mind more big teams tours of LOI with the Tier 2 teams.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Yea.. that is also good. Stripping of test status when they don't meet expectations.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I also dont think there is any point to tier 2 system. They can just scrap that and tell tier 2 teams to focus heavily on LOIs as that is the future of Cricket and that is what brings in revenue for those teams anyway. Whatever interest BD folks has on Test Cricket it will be end of it with constant BD vs ZIM, IRE, AFG matches. WI also wont be all that threatening in BD pitches.

Test Cricket can stay within Tier 1 teams and they can do whatever with it. However, as a compensation, I wouldnt mind more big teams tours of LOI with the Tier 2 teams.

I think that will happen eventually. Most teams just give lip service to test cricket. Even Pakistan are only playing it down to sense of nostalgia and the fact it is considered proper cricket by ex players. But in reality nobody cares enough about FC or Test....fans, players and administration don't bother.

 

[Buffet]

I also dont think there is any point to tier 2 system. They can just scrap that and tell tier 2 teams to focus heavily on LOIs as that is the future of Cricket and that is what brings in revenue for those teams anyway. Whatever interest BD folks has on Test Cricket it will be end of it with constant BD vs ZIM, IRE, AFG matches. WI also wont be all that threatening in BD pitches.

Test Cricket can stay within Tier 1 teams and they can do whatever with it. However, as a compensation, I wouldnt mind more big teams tours of LOI with the Tier 2 teams.

It's headed in that direction for tier 2. You are right, fans are not going to watch BD vs ZIM, IRE, AFG, WI matches all the time.

We may be simply left with 7 test teams like we had in old eras. 3-4 good teams and 2-3 not so good teams.

Big teams should tour LOI against tier 2 teams. That will help with finance and also interest of fans.

 

[jnaveen1980]

It's headed in that direction for tier 2. You are right, fans are not going to watch BD vs ZIM, IRE, AFG, WI matches all the time.

We may be simply left with 7 test teams like we had in old eras. 3-4 good teams and 2-3 not so good teams.

Big teams should tour LOI against tier 2 teams. That will help with finance and also interest of fans.

Revenue distribution will change. They will get lower percentage now. As long as they are okay with that i say remove the test status. They can focus on LOI formats. Afghanistan, Ireland, Bangladesh, Zimbabwe. Srilanka and West Indies are somewhere between those 4 and top 6. SL did whitewash NZ. They might even beat Australia in one of the test.

 

[Buffet]

Revenue distribution will change. They will get lower percentage now. As long as they are okay with that i say remove the test status. They can focus on LOI formats. Afghanistan, Ireland, Bangladesh, Zimbabwe. Srilanka and West Indies are somewhere between those 4 and top 6. SL did whitewash NZ. They might even beat Australia in one of the test.

I don't think WI fans are ok with it.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I don't think WI fans are ok with it.

I understand where they come from. They love their test cricket.

https://trinidadexpress.com/sports/...cle_363c0fa6-cc88-11ef-9bea-d7d54f631cdd.html

“I’m very disturbed about this…It must be stopped now.”

Legendary former West Indies cricket captain Clive Lloyd did not mince his words as he responded to a media report out of Australia yesterday that talks are planned to split Test-playing teams into two divisions.

A report in the Sydney Morning Herald has suggested that Australia, England, India and the International Cricket Council’s new chairman Jay Shah are in talks to split Test cricket into two divisions so the big three nations can play each other more often in series.”


The report noted that the concept of two tiers in Test cricket was previously floated at ICC level in 2016, with a model where seven nations would compete in the top division and five in the second rank.

It added that any plan for a move to two divisions in Test cricket would kick in after the end of the current Future Tours Programme in 2027.

However, Lloyd does not see West Indies, currently ranked eighth out of 12 Test teams, recovering if they were confined to a tier two.

“We cannot sustain the system with the money that we are acquiring at the moment,” Sir Clive told members of the regional and international media on a Zoom call yesterday. “We are in a very vulnerable situation. And now you are making us even poorer by what you are doing.”

And the man who led the Caribbean team in 125 Tests in which time they became the unofficial world champions, and in 87 One-Day Internationals and back-to-back World Cup titles in 1975 and 1979 said the Windies deserved special consideration.


“We need special dispensation,” Sir Clive said. “We were the cash cows for a lot of countries over the years and think it’s obvious that people must recognise this.”

The former WI skipper said the West Indies’ historical contribution to world cricket should count for something.

“We’ve been in the ICC for nearly 100 years,” Sir Clive noted. “We have probably been the most successful Test team over the years….We worked hard for what we achieved over the period and we only have five million people….We have a great history, and now you going to tell us because of a monetary situation…we’re in this situation…”

And Sir Clive added that West Indies aside, a two tier system would be bad for all smaller Test nations.

“It will be terrible for all those countries who worked so hard to get to Test match status and now they’ll be playing among themselves in the lower section,” he said, and asked: How are they gonna make it to the top?”

And Sir Clive, a member of the ICC Hall of Fame, questioned the great financial imbalance in how the world governing body distributes its funds.

“Nobody has been able to tell me yet, why (out of) ten Test teams, three are getting 180 million and seven getting 80 million…When we were in the ascendency, we didn’t get any more money.

“We (all Test nations) should have the same set of funds per year or however often this money is shared,” he argued.

 

[Buffet]

Sir Clive said. “We were the cash cows for a lot of countries over the years and think it’s obvious that people must recognise this.”

“We’ve been in the ICC for nearly 100 years,” Sir Clive noted. “We have probably been the most successful Test team over the years….We worked hard for what we achieved over the period and we only have five million people….We have a great history, and now you going to tell us because of a monetary situation…we’re in this situation…”

He is right. Eng/Aus were dependent on WI to generate cash.

Now they are not dependent on WI, but on Ind. WI is getting replaced by Ind.

It's all about who can generate more cash. CA had financial issue during covid and Indian tours bailed them out. Yes, current BGT was a huge success for CA, but WI played that part for a long long time. Understandably, WI will be upset with this proposed arrangement.

 

[Savak]

Michael Holding is proposing that the Big 3 India, Australia, England should share the revenue from the series they play against each other with the Tier 2 boards to give them a fair chance to uplift their cricket and reach Tier 1.

 

[Devadwal]

Michael Holding is proposing that the Big 3 India, Australia, England should share the revenue from the series they play against each other with the Tier 2 boards to give them a fair chance to uplift their cricket and reach Tier 1.

Why should Big three will share when other boards are not even care test cricket .

WI players are choosing league cricket over test cricket .

PCB and pakistan players are not interested about test cricket anymore and shaheen was playing in BPL during South Africa tour yell us different story'.

SA cricket board had send kids to play test cricket in NZ.

Hopefully ICC implementation tier system kn teat cricket as soon as .

Only 5 or at max 6 team should be include in tier 1 system.

Revenue distribution should be changed for tier 2 team . Not free money for anyone who doesn't want to Play the test cricket.

 

[Buffet]

Why should Big three will share when other boards are not even care test cricket .

WI players are choosing league cricket over test cricket .

PCB and pakistan players are not interested about test cricket anymore and shaheen was playing in BPL during South Africa tour yell us different story'.

SA cricket board had send kids to play test cricket in NZ.

Hopefully ICC implementation tier system kn teat cricket as soon as .

Only 5 or at max 6 team should be include in tier 1 system.

Revenue distribution should be changed for tier 2 team . Not free money for anyone who doesn't want to Play the test cricket.

Have you thought why those players are playing T20?

If WI/Pak players can get paid high like Aus players for playing test, don't you think some of them will pick tests to play and not chase all random leagues?

For example, Starc opted out of IPL, because he makes enough from central contract given by CA. If CA was payig him peanuts, he simply coudln't have picked that option.

-----------------------------

I think saying that no one in SA/Pak/WI is interested in playing test is too simplistic.

 

[gazza619]

I am of the opinion that Pak has no appetite for test cricket except people who use social media or some part of overseas community so if they put us in division 2 & we don't have to play tests in Aus, RSA, or NZ nothing really changes for the general fan in Pak.

Test cricket is considered boring as a whole and T20 cricket is enough to keep the general populace happy. PSL fills up most centers while a test match has 400 people no matter who is playing it. Eng came to Pak & they reached a stage where tickets were being given for free yet still majority of the stadium was empty.

It will also reduce the load on domestic cricket where the 4 day tournament can be phased out and a more robust and longer white ball season can be scheduled. The tournament already is in doldrums and this year when it was at its peak & we were 'preparing' for a test series in RSA, they started a T20 tournament & named it Champions cup.

So whether we play test cricket or have a longer PSL window doesn't really matter that much at this point.

The second issue is more pressing & if the big 3 want to play 5 tests with each other every year that's up to them. To me it feels like an overkill & almost seems like diluting your product & lowering the prestige of the trophy. Hey Ind won the BGT by winning a thrilling series 2-1 & now three months later they have to defend it down under & then when they do it, there's another big series in six months.

The best thing about Ashes is that it's played after a while so you always have the appetite for it & it feels like an event. An ashes every year just makes it meh to me as a fan but then this is just me & my opinion.

If the finances match & they could sell it then why not.

When you say that Pakistan public doesn’t have appetite for test cricket, that is not entirely true. I can give you my example. I have lived half of my adulthood in UK and the other half (mostly teenage years) in Karachi. Interestingly Edgbaston Cricket Ground Birmingham and National Stadium Karachi are at a 10 minutes drive from where I live or used to live.

Now I have been to National Stadium to watch test cricket only twice in my life. Firstly in October 1994 on day 5 of the iconic test match between Pakistan & Australia where Pakistan won by 1 wicket. I bunked school on that day lol. Secondly in December 1997 when Pakistan played WI. It was Shoaib Akhtar’s debut test match.

In England I have already watched test cricket more than a dozen times. This is mainly due to the fantastic facilities.

I personally think that if stadiums in Pakistan can be improved with world class, clean and family friendly facilities, that would increase the chances of public coming to watch test cricket more often. I know your counter argument would be that the stadiums are full during PSL. I think most people are OK to bear the torture of poor facilities for 3 hours in return of watching some quick entertainment. Its like going to a shopping mall or a movie theatre for them.

Look I am not saying that stadiums would be jam packed after the upgrades. Even during the 1994 test match against Australia on day 5 the stadium only had occupancy of around 10-20%!

 

[RexRex]

In England I have already watched test cricket more than a dozen times. This is mainly due to the fantastic facilities.

I personally think that if stadiums in Pakistan can be improved with world class, clean and family friendly facilities, that would increase the chances of public coming to watch test cricket more often.

What exactly are the differences between the stadiums in Pakistan and those in the UK, in terms of comforts/facilities ?

 

[wrongun]

He's damn right.

No one will listen to him.

The smaller nations which could band together and help themselves big time, will instead get bribed in front of or behind the screen by BCCI to vote against their own interests.

Let's watch it happen...

 

[BouncerGuy]

Sometimes two-tier system may sound all fancy but actually ICC needs to scrap the WTC because it is pretty unfair. All teams should play equal number of games or else it will all be a drama.

Two tier is something that might encourage teams to take an interest in Test cricket to move to the top tier and generate more money.

 

[Devadwal]

Have you thought why those players are playing T20?

If WI/Pak players can get paid high like Aus players for playing test, don't you think some of them will pick tests to play and not chase all random leagues?

For example, Starc opted out of IPL, because he makes enough from central contract given by CA. If CA was payig him peanuts, he simply coudln't have picked that option.

-----------------------------

I think saying that no one in SA/Pak/WI is interested in playing test is too simplistic.

So why not PCB or other boards can pay more to players? Its not ICC or BCCI fault if they are incompetent board's and run by incompetent people's.

PCB has the second highest fan base yet they are doing nothing to sell their brand and still depend on ICC revenues for survival of their cricket

PCT performance is also behind why PCB didn't get any good Broadcasters deal for home series .

PSL is 10 year old now still not much profitable for them . Even they earn some money , 90% goes to psl franchisees.

 

[Devadwal]

He's damn right.

No one will listen to him.

The smaller nations which could band together and help themselves big time, will instead get bribed in front of or behind the screen by BCCI to vote against their own interests.

Let's watch it happen...

MOST of the boards ( NZ ,SA,WI SL) will vote for BCCI as they doesn't want to play much test cricket anyway and always looking for increasing the T20 match whenever india tour . One indian tour is generated for enough money to survive.

One india tour revenues= All the other series revenues for NZ , WI , SA , SL cricket boards.

 

[gazza619]

What exactly are the differences between the stadiums in Pakistan and those in the UK, in terms of comforts/facilities ?

Easy access to the inside the ground with multiple entry points, easy to buy tickets at the ticket office or online (tickets available to buy months in advance), clean and reasonably comfy seats, good food and drink options, reasonably clean toilet facilities, better close up view from the stands. There are even sportswear and sports-gear shops.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

It's headed in that direction for tier 2. You are right, fans are not going to watch BD vs ZIM, IRE, AFG, WI matches all the time.

We may be simply left with 7 test teams like we had in old eras. 3-4 good teams and 2-3 not so good teams.

Big teams should tour LOI against tier 2 teams. That will help with finance and also interest of fans.

Even Tier 1 won't last. Literally nobody turned up to watch Aaqib-ball when Pakistan made a comeback and won the series against England.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

the 3rd Test in Pindi when India toured back in 2004. Barely any crowds for this match and this is supposed to be an arch rival.

Test cricket hasn't been popular in PAK for at least 30 years . And it's certainly not any better now.

Domestic One Day Champions Cup had bigger crowds in Faisalabad.

 

[Mainul]

Are they seriously considering. This series was a resounding success. Financially also quality perspective. Will they actually consider having more clashes between the top 3 while sidelining other teams. As it is teams like SA doesn't want long series.

-----------
Australia, England, India and the International Cricket Council’s new chair Jay Shah are in talks to split Test cricket into two divisions so the big three nations can play each other more often in series like the just-completed Border-Gavaskar blockbuster.

Shah, Cricket Australia chair Mike Baird and England Cricket Board chair Richard Thompson are set to meet later this month. According to two sources with knowledge of talks, a two-tier structure for Test cricket is firmly on the agenda.

Their discussions have been given further impetus by enormous crowds and broadcast audiences for Australia’s five matches against India over the past two months, the fourth-best attended series ever in this country and reportedly the most-watched Test series ever played.

Any plan for a move to two divisions in Test cricket would kick in after the end of the current Future Tours Program in 2027, a year which will also feature a 150th anniversary Test match between Australia and England at the MCG.

Numerous senior figures in and around the game have lately argued for more of the “best versus the best” in Test matches, including former India coach Ravi Shastri, who has complained of too much “clutter” in the current schedule.

“I’ve been a firm believer in that if you want Test cricket to survive and be alive and thriving, I think that’s the way to go,” Shastri said on SEN during the SCG Test. “The top teams play against each other more often, so there is a contest; you want contests.”

Should Australia, England and India be freed from having to play as many nations, they would be able to rejig their cycles to play each other twice every three years, rather than twice every four years as is currently the case.

In Australia, that would mean the financial cycle of the game would move faster, with only one year of possible “downside” in every four, rather than two out of four as is currently the case. State associations have been agitated with CA for improved distributions in recent times.

India, England and Australia are also conscious of the rapid growth of Twenty20 franchise leagues and private ownership, all of which is creating more competition for players and calendar space. The principals of the powerful GMR Group, owners of the Delhi Capitals in the IPL and recent buyers of the Hampshire county cricket club, were a visible presence at the SCG Test.

“It comes down to profitable cricket versus unprofitable cricket,” one industry source said.

A two-tiered future?

Possible seven-team first division for Test cricket: South Africa, Australia, England, India, New Zealand, Sri Lanka and Pakistan.

Second division: West Indies, Bangladesh, Ireland, Afghanistan and Zimbabwe.

The concept of two tiers in Test cricket was previously floated at ICC level in 2016, with a model where seven nations would compete in the top division and five in the second rank.

However, it was ultimately shelved when the BCCI heard the protests of smaller nations, who argued that their hard-won right to enter the exclusive club of Test-playing nations would be degraded by the structure.

At the time, the BCCI, Sri Lanka Cricket, the BCB and Zimbabwe Cricket opposed the proposal, while it had support from the boards of Australia, England, South Africa, New Zealand, Pakistan and West Indies.

“The BCCI is against the two-tier Test system because the smaller countries will lose out and the BCCI wants to take care of them,” then-BCCI president Anurag Thakur said in 2016. “It is necessary to protect their interests.

“In the two-tier system, they will lose out on a lot, including revenue and the opportunity to play against top teams. We don’t want that to happen. We want to work in the best interests of world cricket and that is why our team plays against all the countries.”

Eight years later, however, money is talking ever louder to the big three boards, with the Indian broadcaster Disney Star seeing a growing gap between the marquee series and others. Australian broadcasters Foxtel and Seven are also eager for more matches involving India and England.

“The more the better!” one senior broadcast figure said.

Shah won the support of Australia and England to take over as ICC chair last year, ahead of the expiry of his final term as BCCI secretary.

A change in cricket’s structure would mean the current world Test championship only runs for one more cycle, despite providing greater jeopardy and context since its inception in 2019.

It has been subject to sustained criticism from England, in particular, with Ben Stokes’ team arguing that the WTC is too hard to understand and penalises teams that play more cricket. England have never been close to qualifying for the final.

“In all honesty, the world Test championship, it is a bit confusing,” Stokes said in New Zealand in November. “I don’t look at it … it’s a real weird one knowing that you’re playing for something over a long period of time.”

SOURCE:https://www.theage.com.au/sport/cri...ks-to-split-tests-in-two-20250106-p5l2bl.html

Is there any reason to include Pakistan in tier 1?

A quiz for all of you- Q. Which country possess the world record of being beaten most consequetively in test in any opposition's home? And how many tests on traught?

 

[Mainul]

the 3rd Test in Pindi when India toured back in 2004. Barely any crowds for this match and this is supposed to be an arch rival.

Test cricket hasn't been popular in PAK for at least 30 years . And it's certainly not any better now.

Domestic One Day Champions Cup had bigger crowds in Faisalabad.

I agree. It is very painful and ugly to see empty cricket stadiums in tests in Pakistan.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Show me your source that test cricket is not profitable for BCCI ?

Source nahi dega woh.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Source nahi dega woh.

@Devadwal as well.

Read the book "Cricket 2.0 Inside a T20 Revolution by Freddie Wilde and Tim Wigmore " .

It generally notes a few points about the losses that Test cricket makes.

Interestingly , there's a foreword by Harsha Bhogle where he recalls talking to a high ranking stakeholder in the sports media industry and he enquired how much a purely Test based rights package would be bought for .

And the person responded " You mean if we bid"?

That should tell you everything about the reality of Test cricket in India.

Test cricket can only be sold as part of a bundle involving white ball cricket as well.

 

[Devadwal]

@Devadwal as well.

Read the book "Cricket 2.0 Inside a T20 Revolution by Freddie Wilde and Tim Wigmore " .

It generally notes a few points about the losses that Test cricket makes.

Interestingly , there's a foreword by Harsha Bhogle where he recalls talking to a high ranking stakeholder in the sports media industry and he enquired how much a purely Test based rights package would be bought for .

And the person responded " You mean if we bid"?

That should tell you everything about the reality of Test cricket in India.

Test cricket can only be sold as part of a bundle involving white ball cricket as well.

Test cricket is not much profitable like IPL or international T20 but still profitable for india .

Don't take fans numbers in stadium seriously because most of money came from Sponsers, Broadcasters etc . Gate money is nothing .

In subcontinent , facilities provided for the fans is very pathetic so mostly people's avoid to watch test cricket in the stadium rather watch a the home .

I watched couple of test in delhi stadium and bored after few hours but i can watch full test at home .

BCCI is richest boards but i I couldn't find good water to drink during the test match .

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

When you say that Pakistan public doesn’t have appetite for test cricket, that is not entirely true. I can give you my example. I have lived half of my adulthood in UK and the other half (mostly teenage years) in Karachi. Interestingly Edgbaston Cricket Ground Birmingham and National Stadium Karachi are at a 10 minutes drive from where I live or used to live.

Now I have been to National Stadium to watch test cricket only twice in my life. Firstly in October 1994 on day 5 of the iconic test match between Pakistan & Australia where Pakistan won by 1 wicket. I bunked school on that day lol. Secondly in December 1997 when Pakistan played WI. It was Shoaib Akhtar’s debut test match.

In England I have already watched test cricket more than a dozen times. This is mainly due to the fantastic facilities.

I personally think that if stadiums in Pakistan can be improved with world class, clean and family friendly facilities, that would increase the chances of public coming to watch test cricket more often. I know your counter argument would be that the stadiums are full during PSL. I think most people are OK to bear the torture of poor facilities for 3 hours in return of watching some quick entertainment. Its like going to a shopping mall or a movie theatre for them.

Look I am not saying that stadiums would be jam packed after the upgrades. Even during the 1994 test match against Australia on day 5 the stadium only had occupancy of around 10-20%!

I respect your opinion but test lovers are an exception to the norm & I have catered that scenario. I myself am someone who prefers test cricket but the general populace has no interest to it & that's why our board keeps cancelling 3 test series to 2 & schedules a meaningless T20 series for that.

I'll illustrate my opinion by a simple question

1. Which one of the following two players has achieved more?

a. Younus khan
b. Shahid afridi

2. Which one of the following two players is more popular?

a. Younus khan
b. Shahid afridi

 

[BouncerGuy]

Graeme Smith speaking during a Podcast:

“Can you see a world where there are only three nations playing cricket in the future?”

“I was just looking at a note this morning at how much England and India are playing each other over the next period, and Australia and vice versa. It gets extremely hard for the other nations… India are probably the best because they are commercially so reliable for the other nations.”

“But where do you find the top three nations playing each other all the time? And you can only imagine in the next FTP cycle how that’s been tied up in the background.”

“How does the ICC create a structure that’s fair in the top three’s eyes? I think what world cricket needs is, it needs South Africa to be strong, the West Indies to be strong, needs Sri Lanka to get better. Otherwise.”

 

[FearlessRoar]

Faf du Plessis, while interacting with the media on the sidelines of SA20 Season 3's captain's day:

“No, I think we need the game to be healthy.”

“We saw over the last few years the value that was put on Test cricket by Australia, England and India making sure that there were 4-5 Test series."

“When you look at the other teams, there are two Test matches here and there and playing six Test matches a season. I do not think that is healthy for the game.”

“As long as we can look at Test cricket as (being) important, you just look at all the Test matches that took place over the last few weeks, some incredible matches have been played.”

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Test cricket is not much profitable like IPL or international T20 but still profitable for india .

Don't take fans numbers in stadium seriously because most of money came from Sponsers, Broadcasters etc . Gate money is nothing .

In subcontinent , facilities provided for the fans is very pathetic so mostly people's avoid to watch test cricket in the stadium rather watch a the home .

I watched couple of test in delhi stadium and bored after few hours but i can watch full test at home .

BCCI is richest boards but i I couldn't find good water to drink during the test match .

Let's agree to disagree. South Africa are touring after 6 years and they are playing only 2 Tests in India in 2025.

 

[Buffet]

He's damn right.

No one will listen to him.

The smaller nations which could band together and help themselves big time, will instead get bribed in front of or behind the screen by BCCI to vote against their own interests.

Let's watch it happen...

I am not sure that only BCCI is behind this. This seems like a push by CA, BCCI and ECB together.

 

[Buffet]

So why not PCB or other boards can pay more to players? Its not ICC or BCCI fault if they are incompetent board's and run by incompetent people's.

PCB has the second highest fan base yet they are doing nothing to sell their brand and still depend on ICC revenues for survival of their cricket

PCT performance is also behind why PCB didn't get any good Broadcasters deal for home series .

PSL is 10 year old now still not much profitable for them . Even they earn some money , 90% goes to psl franchisees.

PCB has population and it's a failure to not able to take advantage of it, but WI does not have that.

 

[Buffet]

Even Tier 1 won't last. Literally nobody turned up to watch Aaqib-ball when Pakistan made a comeback and won the series against England.

Tier 1 only gets large enough eyeballs when Ind, Aus and Eng are involved in test.

I am not sure about the plans, but I will assume that tier 1 teams at least get some match against each other. But tier 2 will not get match against Big 3. In that situation, tier 2 test is dead, why not simply take away their test status and call it a day.

 

[Buffet]

Is there any reason to include Pakistan in tier 1?

A quiz for all of you- Q. Which country possess the world record of being beaten most consequetively in test in any opposition's home? And how many tests on traught?

Probably the same team which has lost consecutive 20 tests in Aus, SA and NZ.

I think belonging in tier 1 depends on where you draw a line. If 7 teams then Pakistan has a case even if not a assured spot kind of situation due to showing up in the top 5 test nation. You can sure start making case for other teams with 7.

 

[Buffet]

Graeme Smith speaking during a Podcast:



“How does the ICC create a structure that’s fair in the top three’s eyes? I think what world cricket needs is, it needs South Africa to be strong,

Agree with him. SA is not as strong test team right now as they were 10 years ago, but has a good test team. It will be a poor outcome for world cricket if SA is not playing tests.

 

[Devadwal]

Agree with him. SA is not as strong test team right now as they were 10 years ago, but has a good test team. It will be a poor outcome for world cricket if SA is not playing tests.

Yes by sending the kid's to Play the test cricket away from home and mostly Play the 2 test match home series against india , Pakistan etc.

Who are they Fooling? First sort out own issues and make the test cricket top priority.

As i said earlier theses boards are responsible for why test cricket needs tier system.

 

[Buffet]

Yes by sending the kid's to Play the test cricket away from home

Again, if you stop and think why main team was not available for NZ test? It was purely financial decision due to clash with shorter fromats leagues being crucial for finances for SA. It was not a case of SA not wanting to send good test team to NZ.

Yes, SA is going through issues as country and also in cricket. It will get sorted out with time, but SA has been veyr strong test side since readmission. Making a system where they simply fall off is not good for world cricket.

SA is also guilty of playing those 2 tests, no excuse for that. Point I am trying to make that pushing SA down in given situation when SA has been a strong test side is not going to make world cricket better.

More than 3 decades since readmission, SA has 2nd W/L after Aus. Do we really want to loses such teams from test cricket? How will it make world cricket better? Has you seen a push in any sports to get rid of 2nd best team just because they are having issues right now? It's short sighted to be honest.

 

[Devadwal]

Again, if you stop and think why main team was not available for NZ test? It was purely financial decision due to clash with shorter fromats leagues being crucial for finances for SA. It was not a case of SA not wanting to send good test team to NZ.

Yes, SA is going through issues as country and also in cricket. It will get sorted out with time, but SA has been veyr strong test side since readmission. Making a system where they simply fall off is not good for world cricket.

SA is also guilty of playing those 2 tests, no excuse for that. Point I am trying to make that pushing SA down in given situation when SA has been a strong test side is not going to make world cricket better.

More than 3 decades since readmission, SA has 2nd W/L after Aus. Do we really want to loses such teams from test cricket? How will it make world cricket better? Has you seen a push in any sports to get rid of 2nd best team just because they are having issues right now? It's short sighted to be honest.

Because earlier test cricket was South Africa top priority. From 2017-18 onwards South Africa board has no interest of playing the test cricket

most of the series reduced to 2 test and they wants to Play more T20 cricket . They have no desire to play long test series at Home or away in near future

People will remember that South Africa reached in 2025 WTC final but only serious cricket fans who knows everything about test cricket clearly understand that how are they reached.

WTC is already a joke formats and its become more in future if ICC doens't fix it .

 

[Buffet]

Because earlier test cricket was South Africa top priority. From 2017-18 onwards South Africa board has no interest of playing the test cricket

Ebbs and flows with country going through many issues.

Focusing on that and makign a system to get rid of 2nd best test team of the last 3 decades will make out cricket poor and not better. It will be a short sighted decision to push SA down when SA is having issues.

Yes, WTC is joke format. ICC thought it will help test cricket, but in current format, it's not going to help. That's a different topic.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Ebbs and flows with country going through many issues.

Focusing on that and makign a system to get rid of 2nd best test team of the last 3 decades will make out cricket poor and not better. It will be a short sighted decision to push SA down when SA is having issues.

Yes, WTC is joke format. ICC thought it will help test cricket, but in current format, it's not going to help. That's a different topic.

Anyone who is involved in SA20 is not going to take the side of having more tests for SA. They get more money from sponsors for shorter formats. It is less expensive to organize shorter formats. They generate more revenue from shorter formats. BCCI ECB CA due to traditional rivalry will back test matches. SA should understand lack of Tests will kill first class system. People won't have motivation to do well there as they use T20 leagues to pick squad for shorter formats. WTC is not the answer given the reluctance of some boards to play long series. It doesn't really punish those who take tests less seriously. It helps them like SA in this csse.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Tier 1 only gets large enough eyeballs when Ind, Aus and Eng are involved in test.

I am not sure about the plans, but I will assume that tier 1 teams at least get some match against each other. But tier 2 will not get match against Big 3. In that situation, tier 2 test is dead, why not simply take away their test status and call it a day.

No need to take away their status . My own opinion is that the importance of Test status itself should be downplayed completely.

Let cricket playing countries choose how much Test cricket they want to play bilaterally based on whether it's profitable for them or not.

Apart from ,probably, Big 3 nations I suspect most would completely give up on certain tours which make no difference to them

 

[ikky47]

No need to take away their status . My own opinion is that the importance of Test status itself should be downplayed completely.

Let cricket playing countries choose how much Test cricket they want to play bilaterally based on whether it's profitable for them or not.

Apart from ,probably, Big 3 nations I suspect most would completely give up on certain tours which make no difference to them

I don’t have any info or data on this excluding the big 3 so for the rest who actually makes money or breaks even for which country when they visit or host whoever? So for example do SA make anything from any of the non big 3 touring? Or is it all losses

 

[Buffet]

Anyone who is involved in SA20 is not going to take the side of having more tests for SA.

Some of them would have taken that side if they had luxury of Starc. Starc skipped IPL, but it was not a sacrifice for him. That's the point I was trying to make.

No complain from players trying to maximize earnings when they have 10-12 years of career. I would have done the same.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Some of them would have taken that side if they had luxury of Starc. Starc skipped IPL, but it was not a sacrifice for him. That's the point I was trying to make.

No complain from players trying to maximize earnings when they have 10-12 years of career. I would have done the same.

Not the players. It is the board. SA board will prioritize SA20 over anything. That is their cash cow rightnow.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I don’t have any info or data on this excluding the big 3 so for the rest who actually makes money or breaks even for which country when they visit or host whoever? So for example do SA make anything from any of the non big 3 touring? Or is it all losses

Usually they won't share the details immediately. So far i have not read any reports about other countries. But India definitely saved South African cricket board in 2024 by visiting them

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/art...anks-to-indias-all-important-all-format-tour/

Cricket South Africa reports massive profit after barren spell thanks to India’s all-important, all-format tour​

 

[jnaveen1980]

This is the income breakdown for SA.

Cricket South Africa (CSA) reported a strong financial performance for the 2023-2024 fiscal year, with a total revenue of R1.9 billion and a profit of R815 million. The breakdown of CSA's revenue sources includes:

• Broadcast rights
  54% of CSA's total revenue came from broadcast rights, which were boosted by India's tour of South Africa in December and January. Each match was worth about R150 million.
  
  
• SA20
  CSA earned R54 million from the second edition of the Betway SA20 league, which saw double-digit growth in profitability. CSA is the majority shareholder in ACD, the company that owns the SA20 league.
  
  
• ICC Men's U19 World Cup
  CSA generated R54 million from hosting the 2024 Under-19 men's World Cup.
  
  
• Commercial portfolio
  CSA expanded its commercial portfolio by renewing existing agreements and attracting new brands.
  

CSA's financial turnaround came after losses in the previous three reporting periods. The organization is anticipating another strong financial year in 2024-2025, with India scheduled to play four T20Is in November.

 

[ikky47]

Usually they won't share the details immediately. So far i have not read any reports about other countries. But India definitely saved South African cricket board in 2024 by visiting them

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/art...anks-to-indias-all-important-all-format-tour/

Cricket South Africa reports massive profit after barren spell thanks to India’s all-important, all-format tour​

I understand yes when the big 3 tour some of the other countries in particular India they make a lot of money but for example what about some of the other nations?

This is the income breakdown for SA.

Cricket South Africa (CSA) reported a strong financial performance for the 2023-2024 fiscal year, with a total revenue of R1.9 billion and a profit of R815 million. The breakdown of CSA's revenue sources includes:

• Broadcast rights
  54% of CSA's total revenue came from broadcast rights, which were boosted by India's tour of South Africa in December and January. Each match was worth about R150 million.
  
  
• SA20
  CSA earned R54 million from the second edition of the Betway SA20 league, which saw double-digit growth in profitability. CSA is the majority shareholder in ACD, the company that owns the SA20 league.
  
  
• ICC Men's U19 World Cup
  CSA generated R54 million from hosting the 2024 Under-19 men's World Cup.
  
  
• Commercial portfolio
  CSA expanded its commercial portfolio by renewing existing agreements and attracting new brands.

CSA's financial turnaround came after losses in the previous three reporting periods. The organization is anticipating another strong financial year in 2024-2025, with India scheduled to play four T20Is in November.

So it seems CSA made losses in the previous years of 22-23, 21-22 and 20-21, but I think some of them years are losses due to the pandemic as well? Would be interesting to see if NZ make any money without the big 3 touring or are those years losses when none of the big 3 tour

 

[jnaveen1980]

I understand yes when the big 3 tour some of the other countries in particular India they make a lot of money but for example what about some of the other nations?

So it seems CSA made losses in the previous years of 22-23, 21-22 and 20-21, but I think some of them years are losses due to the pandemic as well? Would be interesting to see if NZ make any money without the big 3 touring or are those years losses when none of the big 3 tour

Reason 1 Sponsors pay less money for Tests unless a big team is involved
Reason 2 It is more expensive to host Tests.

 

[ikky47]

Reason 1 Sponsors pay less money for Tests unless a big team is involved
Reason 2 It is more expensive to host Tests.

Hence why you have the talk of 2 tier test matches and then a test match fund to which the ICC can give to the other nations help them with test match hosting. Most of the test playing nations do have the India tours which is essentially the money saving tour for them, it said in the article which you mentioned that cricket boards cannot thrive or survive without regular India tours

 

[Nikhil_cric]

I don’t have any info or data on this excluding the big 3 so for the rest who actually makes money or breaks even for which country when they visit or host whoever? So for example do SA make anything from any of the non big 3 touring? Or is it all losses

From what I understand it's all losses for SA unless India or England tour.