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Is Mohammad Abbas suited for playing regular Test cricket?

Perchance only when [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] begins to be so wrong about Abbas, can he start to be a bit right about Yasir. 170 wickets and fastest to 100 Test wickets in 100 years may be a bit late though. What seems clear is that one should always bet on whoever bowler Mamoon dislikes.
 
It would be handy to have him in the ODI squad that goes to England.


I'm sure in our 9 matches one or two would be with cloudy, overcast skies and a pitch that does a little bit. On such a day Abbas will rip through any batting lineup.
 
Abbas should get that average down to 10 and then retire as one of the greats.
 
Syed1 said:
It would be handy to have him in the ODI squad that goes to England.


I'm sure in our 9 matches one or two would be with cloudy, overcast skies and a pitch that does a little bit. On such a day Abbas will rip through any batting lineup.
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It would be good but we already have a fantastic clutch of pace bowlers for ODIs. Abbas however, is the only true world class pace bowler we have that would walk into any lineup today.

It's not something we can predict but I would be okay with him being a part of the ODI squad only if that does not negatively affect his test bowling form.
 
Bilal7 said:
It would be good but we already have a fantastic clutch of pace bowlers for ODIs. Abbas however, is the only true world class pace bowler we have that would walk into any lineup today.

It's not something we can predict but I would be okay with him being a part of the ODI squad only if that does not negatively affect his test bowling form.
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Actually our bowling attack is the major reason we did pathetically in the Asia Cup. Amir, Hasan and Shinwari were all garbage. Junaid in his only match did well. If this trend continues we will be on an early flight home from the WC. If Abbas is performing he will be the first name on the team sheet for me in ODIs.
 
Syed1 said:
Actually our bowling attack is the major reason we did pathetically in the Asia Cup. Amir, Hasan and Shinwari were all garbage. Junaid in his only match did well. If this trend continues we will be on an early flight home from the WC. If Abbas is performing he will be the first name on the team sheet for me in ODIs.
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A minor blip. None of these guys were in form. They were fantastic at the CT and that is a much better indicator of what we can expect from the next WC which is held in the same country.
 
Bilal7 said:
It would be good but we already have a fantastic clutch of pace bowlers for ODIs. Abbas however, is the only true world class pace bowler we have that would walk into any lineup today.

It's not something we can predict but I would be okay with him being a part of the ODI squad only if that does not negatively affect his test bowling form.
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Syed1 said:
Actually our bowling attack is the major reason we did pathetically in the Asia Cup. Amir, Hasan and Shinwari were all garbage. Junaid in his only match did well. If this trend continues we will be on an early flight home from the WC. If Abbas is performing he will be the first name on the team sheet for me in ODIs.
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Why ruin a good thing?

England has flat wickets, short boundaries and the seam on the white ball might as well not exist.

There is a reason his E/R was 8.96 and he played more matches (9) than he did take wickets (7) in the T20 Blast for Leicestershire. His average was 39.71.

Also, it would make the tail too long.
 
mak36 said:
Why ruin a good thing?

England has flat wickets, short boundaries and the seam on the white ball might as well not exist.

There is a reason his E/R was 8.96 and he played more matches (9) than he did take wickets (7) in the T20 Blast for Leicestershire. His average was 39.71.

Also, it would make the tail too long.
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He is a poor fielder as well, and that can cost us in crucial matches like Rahat dropping Watson. Abbas should be persisted with in Tests alone while someone new like Arshad Iqbal should be tried in ODIs.
 
New Yorker said:
Perchance only when [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] begins to be so wrong about Abbas, can he start to be a bit right about Yasir. 170 wickets and fastest to 100 Test wickets in 100 years may be a bit late though. What seems clear is that one should always bet on whoever bowler Mamoon dislikes.
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I did not expect you to mistake me for someone else, I think I should take offence to that. I will direct you to my posts in this thread: posts number 50, 52 and 57 respectively.

Mamoon said:
He is doing his job, and has done absolutely nothing to entertain this criticism.
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Mamoon said:
When that happens he will deserve to be criticized. For now, there are bigger fish that need frying.
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Mamoon said:
Not just the bowlers, but pretty much the whole team. Abbas is very new and has not done worse than what he was expected to do. For now, I would reserve my criticism for the other players. This is pure scape-goating in my view.
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Does this give the impression that I dislike him? Contrary to my reputation, I do not dislike players without any reason, and I am not always right and my reasoning is not always popular, but I am always ready to defend myself when needed, which is why I welcome criticism but despise being misquoted of which you are guilty.

Abbas so far has done much better than what I or anyone expected him to do, but ever since his debut, he has not given me the opportunity to criticise him let alone dislike him - whenever he has performed he has been far better than others, and when he has not, he has not been the worst by any stretch.
 
Mamoon said:
I did not expect you to mistake me for someone else, I think I should take offence to that. I will direct you to my posts in this thread: posts number 50, 52 and 57 respectively.







Does this give the impression that I dislike him? Contrary to my reputation, I do not dislike players without any reason, and I am not always right and my reasoning is not always popular, but I am always ready to defend myself when needed, which is why I welcome criticism but despise being misquoted of which you are guilty.

Abbas so far has done much better than what I or anyone expected him to do, but ever since his debut, he has not given me the opportunity to criticise him let alone dislike him - whenever he has performed he has been far better than others, and when he has not, he has not been the worst by any stretch.
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You do recall writing that Abbas is not the kind of bowler who will run through sides, right? I think that is close to the exact quote. I can dig it up. And then there was your famously dismissive opinion of Yasir. I didnt believe then then nor do I believe now that you have something personal against them. But that was your opinion of them as bowlers. And they have proven to be our only true Test match winners recently. But perhaps two wrongs do make a right. Ie, when Abbas comes to the fore, Yasir fades. I thought it was poignant.

And it is not true that Abbas has taken everyone by surprise with his success. I campaigned for him early on, because I am one of the few people in this board who believe that domestic performance may actually mean something. His international average is now pretty much his FC average for the last few years. If you go back there were signs of what was to come. It is not just hindsight.
 
New Yorker said:
You do recall writing that Abbas is not the kind of bowler who will run through sides, right? I think that is close to the exact quote. I can dig it up. And then there was your famously dismissive opinion of Yasir. I didnt believe then then nor do I believe now that you have something personal against them. But that was your opinion of them as bowlers. And they have proven to be our only true Test match winners recently. But perhaps two wrongs do make a right. Ie, when Abbas comes to the fore, Yasir fades. I thought it was poignant.

And it is not true that Abbas has taken everyone by surprise with his success. I campaigned for him early on, because I am one of the few people in this board who believe that domestic performance may actually mean something. His international average is now pretty much his FC average for the last few years. If you go back there were signs of what was to come. It is not just hindsight.
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I do not deny any of that. As I said, he has performed better than what I expected him to - I certainly did not think he was going to average in the teens after one year and produce such spells in the UAE of all places, but underestimation is not the same as disliking, which is why I had to point out that you were misquoting me. Not deliberately of course, because you clearly missed my posts in this thread.

As far as Yasir is concerned, I have always found him to be overrated, who looked better during the 2014-2016 period than he actually was because he was the only wicket-taking bowler in the team. Ever since his debut, he has not been paired with a wicket-taking spinner. His partners were Babar - great in his prime, which was wasted because of Kaneria, Ajmal and Rehman), Nawaz and Shadab - not Test quality. In terms of pacers, we had an array of toothless fast bowlers who could not pick more than 1-2 wickets on a good day.

Yasir was the sole wicket-taker in the team and was bowling 50 overs per innings on average. Considering the context, his wicket-taking records were not that impressive. Any good spinner will take plenty of wickets if he is the only wicket-taking bowler in spin-friendly conditions, that too if he is bowling twice as many overs than anyone else. Imagine the number of wickets Ashwin or Jadeja would take in India if either of them is pair with a non-wicket taking spinner. You pair the post 2013 version of Babar, Nawaz or Shadab with Ashwin or Jadeja on Indian pitches, and the latter will look no less than Warne or Muralitharan.

Now that Abbas has emerged as a genuine wicket-taking bowler and Bilal has done better than expected, Yasir suddenly appears to be "fading", which I believe has more to do with him having to share the spoils which he did not have to earlier in his career.

If you take Abbas and Bilal out of the team now and replace them with Rahat and Nawaz/Shadab, the wickets that they took would eventually have fallen into Yasir's lap. However, of course, being the only wicket-taker in the team has its disadvantages too. Yasir has been over-bowled and perhaps the great workload has started to take its toll on his body.

If you look at Yasir's bowling in isolation, he is good but he is not world class or exceptional. He has very good control for a leg-spinner due to the years of experience in first-class cricket, but in spite of 100+ first-class games under his belt, he still does not have a good googly and can be one-dimensional at times. He deserves credit for the two spells in England, but whenever he has not been able to get some assistance from the pitch overseas, he has been smashed.

That is the biggest difference between him and the likes of Ashwin and Jadeja, who may not always take wickets on non-friendly pitches, but they usually offer enough control to keep things tight. In fact, Yasir was one of the main reasons why we could not draw a single game in Australia in spite of producing our best batting performance there in decades. He was routinely going for 5 runs per over and you cannot draw matches if your premier spinner is being treated with such disdain.

I do not rule out the fact that Yasir might be physically declining, but I hold the view that the incompetence of other bowlers earlier in his career gave him plenty of free wickets. However, now, he has to do more to earn some wickets because Abbas is making his presence felt.
 
ExpressPacer said:
If you ignore numbers, stats and figures for a moment and just look at the man's bowling for just a moment, it is easier than drinking water to concur and come to the realization that that this man is the absolute definition and epitome of mediocrity and dare I say, inability.

An insult to the world "fast", this bowler casually saunters into the pitch and hopes for the best when delivering the ball. It is beyond my basic understanding what some "experts" see in him but all I say is an unfit trundler bowling at speeds of 125-132 KPH with absolutely no seam movement, no swing, no bounce, no lateral movement, no reverse, absolutely NOTHING at all.

He doesn't have height of a fast bowler, he doesn't have the run up of a fast bowler, he doesn't have the pace of a fast bowler, he doesn't have the action of a fast bowler, he doesn't have the fitness of a fast bowler, he doesn't have ability of a fast bowler, heck he doesn't even have the attitude. I have not seen a more innocuous bowler in my life!

The only place I can ever see him being successful is England and that too on a green top with helpful conditions and cloud cover, and I have my doubts about that too, frankly. Not tall/pacy enough for Aus or SA, doesn't swing it enough for UAE, doesn't seam it enough to be find any sort of success in India/Lanka/BD and if he ever plays a Test in Pakistan, I'm sure he simply doesn't have the energy to play in the Lahore heat.

Lets talk about everyone's favorite topic: Statistics.

I'm sure a bunch of "experts" are going to question my cricketing knowledge for disregarding this gem that we have unearthed because of his MIGHTY average in a grand total of 4 matches against #7 and #8 ranked teams. But I have the answer for that.

Out of his 20 wickets in Test matches, FIFTEEN have come against Tailenders. Is he the first ever tailender specialist "fast" bowler? The other 5 wickets? Well, they came against either newbies or the wicket of a batsman after he'd played 150+ delivery innings.

I'm sure his average is going to go up once he starts playing better teams and when he at least has 10 matches (I seriously hope this is his last ever international match).

I personally think Abbas is the absolute worst fast bowler playing Test cricket today. Maybe Shafiul Islam gives him some competition but even then the guy picked up Amla in his last match and also got Elgar cheaply.
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The bold part is tooooooo funny lol

Yes you are the ‘expert’ lmao
 
Mamoon said:
I do not deny any of that. As I said, he has performed better than what I expected him to - I certainly did not think he was going to average in the teens after one year and produce such spells in the UAE of all places, but underestimation is not the same as disliking, which is why I had to point out that you were misquoting me. Not deliberately of course, because you clearly missed my posts in this thread.

As far as Yasir is concerned, I have always found him to be overrated, who looked better during the 2014-2016 period than he actually was because he was the only wicket-taking bowler in the team. Ever since his debut, he has not been paired with a wicket-taking spinner. His partners were Babar - great in his prime, which was wasted because of Kaneria, Ajmal and Rehman), Nawaz and Shadab - not Test quality. In terms of pacers, we had an array of toothless fast bowlers who could not pick more than 1-2 wickets on a good day.

Yasir was the sole wicket-taker in the team and was bowling 50 overs per innings on average. Considering the context, his wicket-taking records were not that impressive. Any good spinner will take plenty of wickets if he is the only wicket-taking bowler in spin-friendly conditions, that too if he is bowling twice as many overs than anyone else. Imagine the number of wickets Ashwin or Jadeja would take in India if either of them is pair with a non-wicket taking spinner. You pair the post 2013 version of Babar, Nawaz or Shadab with Ashwin or Jadeja on Indian pitches, and the latter will look no less than Warne or Muralitharan.

Now that Abbas has emerged as a genuine wicket-taking bowler and Bilal has done better than expected, Yasir suddenly appears to be "fading", which I believe has more to do with him having to share the spoils which he did not have to earlier in his career.

If you take Abbas and Bilal out of the team now and replace them with Rahat and Nawaz/Shadab, the wickets that they took would eventually have fallen into Yasir's lap. However, of course, being the only wicket-taker in the team has its disadvantages too. Yasir has been over-bowled and perhaps the great workload has started to take its toll on his body.

If you look at Yasir's bowling in isolation, he is good but he is not world class or exceptional. He has very good control for a leg-spinner due to the years of experience in first-class cricket, but in spite of 100+ first-class games under his belt, he still does not have a good googly and can be one-dimensional at times. He deserves credit for the two spells in England, but whenever he has not been able to get some assistance from the pitch overseas, he has been smashed.

That is the biggest difference between him and the likes of Ashwin and Jadeja, who may not always take wickets on non-friendly pitches, but they usually offer enough control to keep things tight. In fact, Yasir was one of the main reasons why we could not draw a single game in Australia in spite of producing our best batting performance there in decades. He was routinely going for 5 runs per over and you cannot draw matches if your premier spinner is being treated with such disdain.

I do not rule out the fact that Yasir might be physically declining, but I hold the view that the incompetence of other bowlers earlier in his career gave him plenty of free wickets. However, now, he has to do more to earn some wickets because Abbas is making his presence felt.
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I think you may be right about Yasir's shortcomings as a bowler, his lack of tricks and his recent loss of discipline - if you recall he was impossible to get away in Sri Lanka not so long ago - but these shortcomings seem to beg even further the question of why he has been so spectacularly successful? No Pakistani bowler ever racked up 100 and 150 wickets at the rate he has. I find the idea that there were simply no other good bowlers to share with a little bit overstretched. No team is required to hand out all their wickets in every innings in Test cricket, like pieces of cake at a birthday party. Whatever the reason, I don't think Yasir has been a mediocre, or average bowler, by any stretch of the imagination. But it may be that he is no longer the bowler he was.
 
It is like OP prepared the ultimate troll thread a whole year in advance. I can't stop giggling. It is word for word perfect sarcasm- at first i thought it was a laugh about all the things the "stereotypical" PP'er or Pakistani fan wants from a quick bowler, the pace, the impossible swing, the athletic run up and the cool hair etc.

Pretty funny I thought... and then i read the thread start date and my head exploded.
 
Mamoon said:
I do not deny any of that. As I said, he has performed better than what I expected him to - I certainly did not think he was going to average in the teens after one year and produce such spells in the UAE of all places, but underestimation is not the same as disliking, which is why I had to point out that you were misquoting me. Not deliberately of course, because you clearly missed my posts in this thread.

As far as Yasir is concerned, I have always found him to be overrated, who looked better during the 2014-2016 period than he actually was because he was the only wicket-taking bowler in the team. Ever since his debut, he has not been paired with a wicket-taking spinner. His partners were Babar - great in his prime, which was wasted because of Kaneria, Ajmal and Rehman), Nawaz and Shadab - not Test quality. In terms of pacers, we had an array of toothless fast bowlers who could not pick more than 1-2 wickets on a good day.

Yasir was the sole wicket-taker in the team and was bowling 50 overs per innings on average. Considering the context, his wicket-taking records were not that impressive. Any good spinner will take plenty of wickets if he is the only wicket-taking bowler in spin-friendly conditions, that too if he is bowling twice as many overs than anyone else. Imagine the number of wickets Ashwin or Jadeja would take in India if either of them is pair with a non-wicket taking spinner. You pair the post 2013 version of Babar, Nawaz or Shadab with Ashwin or Jadeja on Indian pitches, and the latter will look no less than Warne or Muralitharan.

Now that Abbas has emerged as a genuine wicket-taking bowler and Bilal has done better than expected, Yasir suddenly appears to be "fading", which I believe has more to do with him having to share the spoils which he did not have to earlier in his career.

If you take Abbas and Bilal out of the team now and replace them with Rahat and Nawaz/Shadab, the wickets that they took would eventually have fallen into Yasir's lap. However, of course, being the only wicket-taker in the team has its disadvantages too. Yasir has been over-bowled and perhaps the great workload has started to take its toll on his body.

If you look at Yasir's bowling in isolation, he is good but he is not world class or exceptional. He has very good control for a leg-spinner due to the years of experience in first-class cricket, but in spite of 100+ first-class games under his belt, he still does not have a good googly and can be one-dimensional at times. He deserves credit for the two spells in England, but whenever he has not been able to get some assistance from the pitch overseas, he has been smashed.

That is the biggest difference between him and the likes of Ashwin and Jadeja, who may not always take wickets on non-friendly pitches, but they usually offer enough control to keep things tight. In fact, Yasir was one of the main reasons why we could not draw a single game in Australia in spite of producing our best batting performance there in decades. He was routinely going for 5 runs per over and you cannot draw matches if your premier spinner is being treated with such disdain.

I do not rule out the fact that Yasir might be physically declining, but I hold the view that the incompetence of other bowlers earlier in his career gave him plenty of free wickets. However, now, he has to do more to earn some wickets because Abbas is making his presence felt.
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You never wrote anyting against Abbas because he had no fans and no one rated him which does not excite you as you like to go against the tide. Recently this forum is quickly churning out Abbas fanatics as he build on his reputation I expect your first Anti Abbas rant before the year ends.
 
Xoib said:
You never wrote anyting against Abbas because he had no fans and no one rated him which does not excite you as you like to go against the tide. Recently this forum is quickly churning out Abbas fanatics as he build on his reputation I expect your first Anti Abbas rant before the year ends.
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I rated him and I don't think I was the only one. Some of us feel that FC performance is not meaningless.
 
Test bowling average currently 15. Massively overrated bowler!

well done OP :)))
 
Xoib said:
You never wrote anyting against Abbas because he had no fans and no one rated him which does not excite you as you like to go against the tide. Recently this forum is quickly churning out Abbas fanatics as he build on his reputation I expect your first Anti Abbas rant before the year ends.
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No.

I speak without bias and do not view things with green-tinted glasses, which is why what I say makes people uncomfortable. My “rants” are always based on something, and that something is there for everyone to see but they choose to be blind.

The Asia Cup reality check should tell you that I do not run my mouth for the sake of it. I warned everyone about the upcoming reality check but it was brushed under the carpet because well I am a hater and bla bla.

How I view Abbas has nothing to do with the general consensus. So far I have not seen any weakness in his game so I have not come up with a rant. If I eventually see something, I will not hold back.
 
ExpressPacer said:
I disagree. I would rather have an Amir that goes wicket-less in the odd match than an innocuous trundler who ONLY picks up tail-enders and that too after they've played a long innings. At the very least, Amir looks threatening even on a bad day and is fit.

This guy defines mediocrity.
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Thank your for giving us an example of what's wrong with our attitude as fans. As long as a player is our favorite we are willing to ignore all kinds of shortcomings while picking on a guy who is new and inexperienced.
 
Madplayer said:
Well i can see where the OP was coming from. He did look innocuous at the start of his career. So lets not attack the OP for having an premature opinion.
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It seems OP wanted another bowler from the domestic in the team. Though instead of picking on the weakest link and the elephant in the room ie. M. Amir he chose to pick on the newbie. OP getting ridiculed is justified.
 
Very happy to have been proven wrong. I'll be the first to admit that I made an error in judgement and it makes me very joyful to see Abbas doing good. However, to clear the air; I never criticized Abbas for his lack of pace. In his early days, he looked very innocuous and feasted largely off the wickets of trundlers. I failed to see anything special other than consistent line and length, something new for Pakistani fans who have become akin to "run in and hope for the best" Rahat Ali type of bowlers.

As prolific as he has been, I will reserve my judgement until I have seen him play against better Test sides, on their home grounds. Not a flailing WI who lose to Bangladesh at home, or England who lose to WI at home or the cricket worlds worst travelers in Australia missing their key players.
 
ExpressPacer said:
Very happy to have been proven wrong. I'll be the first to admit that I made an error in judgement and it makes me very joyful to see Abbas doing good. However, to clear the air; I never criticized Abbas for his lack of pace. In his early days, he looked very innocuous and feasted largely off the wickets of trundlers. I failed to see anything special other than consistent line and length, something new for Pakistani fans who have become akin to "run in and hope for the best" Rahat Ali type of bowlers.

As prolific as he has been, I will reserve my judgement until I have seen him play against better Test sides, on their home grounds. Not a flailing WI who lose to Bangladesh at home, or England who lose to WI at home or the cricket worlds worst travelers in Australia missing their key players.
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ENG are susceptible in their first game of any series.

They just beat IND (the #1 ranked team) 4-1 at home.

Abbas outbowed seasoned veterans like Anderson and Broad in their own backyards.

Rest is agreed with.
 
How can I answer such question when he hasn't played in the ODI format?

I really think we should just let him stick to test cricket for now - let's see the consistency. But then again, Pakistan aren't exactly flooded with potential world class bowlers who are capable of swinging. So Abbas for the World cup definitely sounds like a project to consider.
 
ExpressPacer said:
Very happy to have been proven wrong. I'll be the first to admit that I made an error in judgement and it makes me very joyful to see Abbas doing good. However, to clear the air; I never criticized Abbas for his lack of pace. In his early days, he looked very innocuous and feasted largely off the wickets of trundlers. I failed to see anything special other than consistent line and length, something new for Pakistani fans who have become akin to "run in and hope for the best" Rahat Ali type of bowlers.

As prolific as he has been, I will reserve my judgement until I have seen him play against better Test sides, on their home grounds. Not a flailing WI who lose to Bangladesh at home, or England who lose to WI at home or the cricket worlds worst travelers in Australia missing their key players.
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I love this post of yours. Many of us that have been sceptical of Abbass in the UAE have written such things so it’s no shame that you expressed a valid opinion that now is being intensely scrutinised given Abbass success recently. And long may this success continue coz we would all like him to do well. We are pak fans after all.

But there was more depth to your opening posts than you were given credit for and these need highlighting.

Firstly Abbass is about 10 tests old and usually superlatives should be reserved for the 20 test mark as that the crucial moment when a bowler has played enough home away tests with a variety of partners and conditions to truly be assessed on merit. Abbass cant be as yet, as junaid, shabbir Ahmed, Amir or even asif could not have been fairly judged. Just Look at what happened to their stock after about 10-20 tests.

Secondly, you are or were surprised by abbass managing to take wickets yet looking remarkably innocuous. You weren’t the only one. Admittedly he has great control and now exaggerated seam movements with reverse. Better and better as he plays. But still the question remains, how does a guy that just ambles up with a hardly any effort manage to strike so consistently. It defies logic doesnt it. We are so used to our bowlers huffing and puffing yet failing to blow the house down.

I think the key ingredient is not him, it’s his bowling partners. As wahab, rahat and amir are a thing of the past, his bowling partners have become tighter. The attack as a whole has a hound dog feel to it where they just work on pressure and no easy runs. This suits abbass and Yasir down to a tee and are ideal conditions where a medium pacer and leggie prosper. Just think...well...erm..not quite Warne and McGrath but say..kumble and Zaheer...or parhaps aaqib and Mushtaq would be better. I just don’t think people realise how much even quality bowlers like amir and asif were let down in uk 2010 with gul and kaneria. Or how it even ended waqars last tests playing with spray gun Sami.

With Bilal and another tight seamer it’s almost becoming a perfect attack for UAE conditions where the fifth day is the most significant. I think abbass is coming into his own because of the attack within which he is operating however innocuous he may appear. Only trouble is NEW ZEALAND are very good with line and length pacers so this is the real test of abbass and our whole attack. I’m just worried if Mir Hamza really should be the second seamer.
 
Abid Z said:
I love this post of yours. Many of us that have been sceptical of Abbass in the UAE have written such things so it’s no shame that you expressed a valid opinion that now is being intensely scrutinised given Abbass success recently. And long may this success continue coz we would all like him to do well. We are pak fans after all.

But there was more depth to your opening posts than you were given credit for and these need highlighting.

Firstly Abbass is about 10 tests old and usually superlatives should be reserved for the 20 test mark as that the crucial moment when a bowler has played enough home away tests with a variety of partners and conditions to truly be assessed on merit. Abbass cant be as yet, as junaid, shabbir Ahmed, Amir or even asif could not have been fairly judged. Just Look at what happened to their stock after about 10-20 tests.

Secondly, you are or were surprised by abbass managing to take wickets yet looking remarkably innocuous. You weren’t the only one. Admittedly he has great control and now exaggerated seam movements with reverse. Better and better as he plays. But still the question remains, how does a guy that just ambles up with a hardly any effort manage to strike so consistently. It defies logic doesnt it. We are so used to our bowlers huffing and puffing yet failing to blow the house down.

I think the key ingredient is not him, it’s his bowling partners. As wahab, rahat and amir are a thing of the past, his bowling partners have become tighter. The attack as a whole has a hound dog feel to it where they just work on pressure and no easy runs. This suits abbass and Yasir down to a tee and are ideal conditions where a medium pacer and leggie prosper. Just think...well...erm..not quite Warne and McGrath but say..kumble and Zaheer...or parhaps aaqib and Mushtaq would be better. I just don’t think people realise how much even quality bowlers like amir and asif were let down in uk 2010 with gul and kaneria. Or how it even ended waqars last tests playing with spray gun Sami.

With Bilal and another tight seamer it’s almost becoming a perfect attack for UAE conditions where the fifth day is the most significant. I think abbass is coming into his own because of the attack within which he is operating however innocuous he may appear. Only trouble is NEW ZEALAND are very good with line and length pacers so this is the real test of abbass and our whole attack. I’m just worried if Mir Hamza really should be the second seamer.
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This is a marvel of logical contortion. If I may summarize, we were wrong about Abbas, he is a good bowler, yet he is not a good bowler, because it is too early to tell whether he is a good bowler, plus also it is the other bowlers who have become good, without actually being observably good, so we are right after all about Abbas.

It is like some kind of magical expansion and inversion of the argument that Wahab Riaz is the secret to every one else's success because he intimidates the opposition.

Usually, the simplest explanation is the correct one, and the simplest explanation is this. Abbas takes many wickets. Abbas is a good bowler. If you cannot understand why he is good there is a problem with your ability to judge what is a good bowler. That is how empirical science works; if the results don't fit the theory, we change the theory. No need to look any further for explanations.

The reason that you can't see that Abbas is good is he occupies a blind spot in your ideological understanding of what a good bowler should look like. It is ideological in the sense that it is built on belief, rather than a correlation with observed empirical reality. Yes, often times fast bowlers will also be good bowlers, but not all good bowlers need to be fast bowlers. And some of the very best bowlers have been not fast bowlers, including the GOAT, Glenn McGrath.
 
Oh my lord. You have written a reply to something that has no correlation to any point I’ve made. Keep it up. Oh and once you have something useful to add that is not a repetition of “abbass is good...just he’s good..that’s it he’s good...we all say he is good...” then please do let me know. By the way, we all think he’s good. Can we just clear that up.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mohammad Abbas has 38 wickets at an incredible average of 11.71 in Test cricket in 2018 <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#cricket</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PAKvNZ?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PAKvNZ</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1063374785223290881?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 16, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Best bowling average in Test cricket in 2018:<br><br>Mohammad Abbas 11.71 (38 wickets)<br>Jason Holder 12.39 (33 wickets)<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1063407736602402816?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 16, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Do NZ finally qualify as 'decent opposition' ? :irfan Just want to know when it is acceptable to praise Abbas :yk3
 
^^^And are we allowed to post smilies when celebrating his truly dull and boring milestones?
 
Flat_Track_Bully said:
Wish he was 5 years younger. Has about 4/5 years left in him. Can end up with 300 test wickets.
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With his relaxed bowling style, if he improves his fitness, I see no reason why cannot play for another 10 years and still be bowling at the same pace and mastery!
 
Flat_Track_Bully said:
Wish he was 5 years younger. Has about 4/5 years left in him. Can end up with 300 test wickets.
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on the contrary .. I think he's at a perfect age for someone of his style of bowling. His skills are fully developed

And he can bowl for another decade, given his style and the limited cricket he plays internationally
 
Guys it's ok we will be brought down back to earth when Abbas faces tougher oppositions like Aus and NZ.... Oh wait :broad
 
Syed1 said:
I'm not for bringing up old posts but couldn't help but notice how you wanted Bashir in his place on the first page :viru
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Yeah, error in judgement due to lack of footage. Had I seen him bowl in domestic on flat pitches with the red ball, I wouldn't have dismissed him like that.

I still would like to see Bashir in the team.
 
MenInG said:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Best bowling average in Test cricket in 2018:<br><br>Mohammad Abbas 11.71 (38 wickets)<br>Jason Holder 12.39 (33 wickets)<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1063407736602402816?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 16, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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I believe he was averaging 12 in FC cricket the year he got picked? Pretty neat fit.
 
He is not moving the ball away from right hander and into the left hander. Is he doing it intentionally to keep it tight or is this something he needs to work on ?
 
I’ve not seen an outswinger, ball seaming away or an off cutter to a right hander. Just sayin
 
MenInG said:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Best bowling average in Test cricket in 2018:<br><br>Mohammad Abbas 11.71 (38 wickets)<br>Jason Holder 12.39 (33 wickets)<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1063407736602402816?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 16, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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Really want Mohammad Abbas back to his previous form.
 
The team management blundered by bringing him back so quickly after an injury without match practice. The fact this was an important test match made them forget they were picking a bowler who was coming back immediately after an injury without a practice game. Even Steyn takes a test match or two after injury before finding his rhythm, line and length again.
 
Savak said:
The team management blundered by bringing him back so quickly after an injury without match practice. The fact this was an important test match made them forget they were picking a bowler who was coming back immediately after an injury without a practice game. Even Steyn takes a test match or two after injury before finding his rhythm, line and length again.
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Dunno if it was the wrong decision, I think the risk he could be bad for the reasons you state, it was more a pick out of desperation honestly. If Abbas got it right, perhaps we could bundle SA out for a low total. Not the wrong decision IMO, it just didn't work out, we took a gamble and didn't pay off.
 
ExpressPacer said:
An insult to the world "fast", this bowler casually saunters into the pitch and hopes for the best when delivering the ball. It is beyond my basic understanding what some "experts" see in him but all I say is an unfit trundler bowling at speeds of 125-132 KPH with absolutely no seam movement, no swing, no bounce, no lateral movement, no reverse, absolutely NOTHING at all.

He doesn't have height of a fast bowler, he doesn't have the run up of a fast bowler, he doesn't have the pace of a fast bowler, he doesn't have the action of a fast bowler, he doesn't have the fitness of a fast bowler, he doesn't have ability of a fast bowler, heck he doesn't even have the attitude. I have not seen a more innocuous bowler in my life!
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I got a lot of stick on this forum for speaking the truth about Abbas from the usual suspects; fickle Pakistani ******* who hyped this joke of a bowler to the moon for performing OK-ishly versus a touring Australia C team.

Ever since the fluke series he had versus Australia, he has looked worse than I initially thought. I had assumed, in spite of his lethargic approach to cricket, he may get some wickets in South Africa but the way he was dealt with and the way a demotivated Amir and a young Afridi outperformed him was despicable to say the least. An extremely below average bowler who does not deserve a spot in the ODI or even Test team.

I hope all of you will wait a few more days before hyping a new bowler to the moon and beyond over the basis of one series.
 
Proven right. Pathetic bowler is Abbas like I said from the start but the usual hype-brigade got carried away in praise on the back of minor success versus Australia C team and minnows.
 
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