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Is Mohammad Shami the best reverse swing bowler in the world?

So many people are talking about Ishant etc but did any of the Indians quick ran through a batting line up in their first few games? It's just one game but comparisons with paper performers with real performer is not fair.
 
No. Steyn and Anderson are. Shami is a good bowler though.
 
IamIndian said:
South Africa, please prepare green tops for the test series against India, with the likes of , Ishant, shukla available for selection, India have a better chance of winning the series for the first time in SA (I HOPE!)
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UMM what ??
 
Based on that highlight video posted earlier I think he was getting more movement off the pitch than in the air. Similar to what Ishant was doing earlier on in his career on indian pitches before he messed up his action.
[utube]AKWt_9cy_J0[/utube]

But unlike ishant he is moving it in the air as well which makes him a lot more dangerous.
 
Xoib said:
Sachin, Sehwag, Gambhir and Dhoni does not look half bad either infact looks even better.
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Not really.

Sehwag and Gambhir have completely lost it now. They were good only in their earlier days.

Age has caught up with Sachin and he too is not himself anymore.

Dhoni is a hack in tests.
 
haha. Nice trolling by OP.

The cheeky smile in the video by Dhoni and Kohli suggests why he getting good zip. ;-)
 
so now we have best swing bowler (Bhuvi), best reverse swing (Shami), Fastest bowler (Umesh) and Bowler with disconcerting bounce (Ishant).

South Afirca be prepared for 2 zip.:razzaq
 
Damn, India have the best pace quartet, no doubt will challenge SA and May even rival the great bowling lineups of WI and Aus.
 
Now let some Indian start post "Sohaib Maqsood is the greatest odi batsman in the world"
And people will make fun of him & pak posters.
 
Yesterday he was 'probably another Indian trundler'
Today he is arguably 'best reverse swing bowler'
Tomorrow he will be branded as overhyped cricketer

I know he's exiting talent but please keep a lid on expectations. The man might have a life so dont ruin it by creating pressure. I think he will do well on greentops also.

Can anybody confirm if he's got a good outswinger with the new ball also ?
 
Ciskatachoon said:
Yesterday he was 'probably another Indian trundler'
Today he is arguably 'best reverse swing bowler'
Tomorrow he will be branded as overhyped cricketer

I know he's exiting talent but please keep a lid on expectations. The man might have a life so dont ruin it by creating pressure. I think he will do well on greentops also.

Can anybody confirm if he's got a good outswinger with the new ball also ?
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In this test match I didn't see this kid using the new ball well.
 
The reverse swing is back

I was thrilled to see Muhammad Shami bowling in the Test against WI especially the 2nd innings. After a long time I saw a bowler with some good pace bowling reverse swing. It reminded me of those days of the two Ws who used to bowl reverse swing at will. They say Andersen and Steyn can reverse but after seeing Shami I feel nobody does it better than him, not even the current Pakistani bowlers.

Way to go Muhammad Shami. Would live to see Shami and Kumar bowl against SA
 
Hey thanks for the compliments.

Shami (as of now) looks like a monster.

We will see.

But to be honest, Kolkata pitch reverses.

Anderson achieved reverse swing in the same ground.

So we will see what he does in Mumbai.
 
There are two aspects of reverse swing. One is when the bowl begins to swing early midway and the other is when it begins to swing very late as it just reaches the batsman. Waqar was expert at the latter. Andersen does more of the first one which is not that dangerous. What I liked about Shami was he was swingin em late
 
^ Also the lengths he was bowling at was a very key aspect of his success.
he bowled them at the good length area where the batsmen din't know whether to come forward or go back and were stuck in the crease.
 
Is too early to say.
But he is looking very good but i want too see him in one day can he swing the ball specially as now there r two new ball.
Lets see him in SA as in India there is nothing for bowlers in odi except to increase there avg
 
battler said:
^ Also the lengths he was bowling at was a very key aspect of his success.
he bowled them at the good length area where the batsmen din't know whether to come forward or go back and were stuck in the crease.
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He is one of quite a few examples when bowlers come of age. Remember Muhammad Asif was ordinary in his debut series against Aus. He went back worked on his strength especially the length with the new bowler and was a totally new bowler after that. Same is the case with Junaid. He was ordinary before the India ODI series, worked on his strength esp under Akram and came back strongly. Irfan the same.

And now we have M Shami
 
Saw highlights of Shami's bowling, ball was reversing a tad too much, not sure what contributed to it... but it would have decimated any batting line up

Let's see whether he can repeat that in 2nd test and next series abroad!
 
silent ischemia said:
He is one of quite a few examples when bowlers come of age. Remember Muhammad Asif was ordinary in his debut series against Aus. He went back worked on his strength especially the length with the new bowler and was a totally new bowler after that. Same is the case with Junaid. He was ordinary before the India ODI series, worked on his strength esp under Akram and came back strongly. Irfan the same.

And now we have M Shami
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yes that's the difference Ian Bishop was pointing at when they were comparing shami's bowling with tino best's bowling.
Even tino was reversing the old ball but he did not have the same impact as shami because he either bowled it too short and wide or bowled to full on the pads and got hit for boundaries.
But saying that kolkata's pitch is known to reverse as it is very dry and abrasive.
do u remember shoaib's spell here in 99 when he bowled sachin and dravid with two beautiful reverse swinging deliveries?
Also anderson reversed it here last year during the test series.
 
silent ischemia said:
I was thrilled to see Muhammad Shami bowling in the Test against WI especially the 2nd innings. After a long time I saw a bowler with some good pace bowling reverse swing. It reminded me of those days of the two Ws who used to bowl reverse swing at will. They say Andersen and Steyn can reverse but after seeing Shami I feel nobody does it better than him, not even the current Pakistani bowlers.

Way to go Muhammad Shami. Would live to see Shami and Kumar bowl against SA
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Bhai jaan mat nazar lagao lol...After such a long time we have found a decent bowler and hopefully BCCI and IPL will not screw his bowling career....
 
AamchiMumbaikar said:
Saw highlights of Shami's bowling, ball was reversing a tad too much, not sure what contributed to it... but it would have decimated any batting line up

Let's see whether he can repeat that in 2nd test and next series abroad!
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His real test will be in sa where the outfield will not be so abrasive and hence there will be less reverse swing on offer.
but if he can bowl at this pace,he should still be a handfull as there will be more conventional swing available.
I expect bhuvi to do well there too.he should just up his pace a bit.
currently he bowls between 130-135,he should try to bowl at 135-140,then i'm sure he would trouble a lot of batsmen.
 
battler said:
His real test will be in sa where the outfield will not be so abrasive and hence there will be less reverse swing on offer.
but if he can bowl at this pace,he should still be a handfull as there will be more conventional swing available.
I expect bhuvi to do well there too.he should just up his pace a bit.
currently he bowls between 130-135,he should try to bowl at 135-140,then i'm sure he would trouble a lot of batsmen.
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In SA, we need a fully fit UY bowling :pray:
 
When was the last time an Indian bowler got the ball to reverse at 140k's?

That ball that got Sammy in the 2nd innings was unplayable. Windies did not expect this from an Indian trundler. Someone bowling over 140k and reversing the ball so much.

The last time I saw someone reverse the ball so much was Pakistani team back in 98 or 99 in Sharjah. Wasim, Shoaib and Razzaq destroyed Lankan batting. Especially Razzaq. He was a great bowler back then.
 
AamchiMumbaikar said:
Success/ failure let's continue with newer gen... Zak is fragile and out of intl match practice. By the way how are his domestic perf?
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took 3 wickets in the recently concluded match against punjab.
before that he had taken four in an innings against another side whose name i don't quite remember.
his performances have been decent,nothing to set the world on fire but not too bad either.
 
mithun_minhas said:
When was the last time an Indian bowler got the ball to reverse at 140k's?

That ball that got Sammy in the 2nd innings was unplayable. Windies did not expect this from an Indian trundler. Someone bowling over 140k and reversing the ball so much.

The last time I saw someone reverse the ball so much was Pakistani team back in 98 or 99 in Sharjah. Wasim, Shoaib and Razzaq destroyed Lankan batting. Especially Razzaq. He was a great bowler back then.
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Shoaib Akhtar 1999 Kolkata test match
Simon Jones 2005 Ashes
Shoaib Akhtar in Pakistan against ENG 2005/ 06
Steyn Nagpur Test 2010
Shami Kolkata Test 2013
 
Yup.. Lovely spell that. Shami can go a long way if he keeps doing this.
 
Sarfraz Nawaz, one who brought this phenomenon into the game was asked how he came up with this idea. He said once he was travelling to Aus on a plane and he wondered how does the pilot changes the direction of the plane. He requested to meet the pilot who told him how by lifting the various elements of the plane wings and the consequent changes in the air pressure across them help in change in direction. Sarfraz thought of the same elements with the ball if he could make the two surfaces on either side of the ball different in texture ie shine and rough.

cricket_512x303.gif
 
Re: The reverse swing is back

cricket.mad said:
elaborate pls..
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Conventional Inswing:The shiny side is outside i.e in case of a RHB the shine will face towards covers at the point of release and the ball swinhs away from the shiny side and hence the ball comes in.This is done with a new ball.

Reverse swing:The shiny side is inside and the ball swings towards the shiny side i.e for a RHB the sine will face towards squre leg at point of release and hence the ball comes in.This is done with the old ball.
 
I still remember when playing tape ball cricket, the other team captain (batting) would strap the tape on the ball for you because the bowling side would strap one side heavier than the other
 
silent ischemia said:
I still remember when playing tape ball cricket, the other team captain (batting) would strap the tape on the ball for you because the bowling side would strap one side heavier than the other
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tape ball cricket has it's own disadvantages though as it makes batsmen into sloggers.
Also i have noticed that because of tape ball cricket bowlers in pak have forgotten how to bowl conventional swing and mostly wait for the ball to get old and then reverse it.
 
battler said:
tape ball cricket has it's own disadvantages though as it makes batsmen into sloggers.
Also i have noticed that because of tape ball cricket bowlers in pak have forgotten how to bowl conventional swing and mostly wait for the ball to get old and then reverse it.
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Tape ball always result in slogging is wrong, newly taped ball also encourage ground stroke play as ball races after contact with middle of bat.
 
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Not just in SC reverse swing is also gaining primary importance in ENG and AUS as without reverse swing the long gap b/w two new balls sometimes looks too dull for fast bowlers everywhere.
 
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battler said:
tape ball cricket has it's own disadvantages though as it makes batsmen into sloggers.
Also i have noticed that because of tape ball cricket bowlers in pak have forgotten how to bowl conventional swing and mostly wait for the ball to get old and then reverse it.
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I think its more to do with the wickets we have in pakistan. On barren, dead pitches you have to wait for the ball to get older to swing it.
As far as tape ball is concerned it does produce express pacers like waqar, shoaib, zahid, same, irshad etc.
 
amax said:
Tape ball always result in slogging is wrong, newly taped ball also encourage ground stroke play as ball races after contact with middle of bat.
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off-topic:Amax is it possible to swing a red hard tennis ball without applying any tape on it?
 
amax said:
Tape ball always result in slogging is wrong, newly taped ball also encourage ground stroke play as ball races after contact with middle of bat.
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But the slogging concept is right with the tape ball. I still remember some guys in Lahore and pindi who would challenge the bowlers for hitting them for 5 or even 6 sixes in an over.
 
battler said:
off-topic:Amax is it possible to swing a red hard tennis ball without applying any tape on it?
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Hardly played with un taped tennis ball, but I think ans is NO, primary reason being less air speed. Tape ball is very quick through air the best way to avoid "phainty" in tape ball cricket is bowl fast , aim for block hole and then hope for some late deviation.
 
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I havent seen anyone play with tapeball in India.Its the normal red or green tennis ball that we play with.Here the method is to press the ball on both sides to get a good hard grip and then try to spin it and get bounce.Ofcourse the fast bowlers try to hit the block hole.
 
amax said:
Hardly played with un taped tennis ball, but I think ans is NO, primary reason being less air speed. Tape ball is very quick through air the best way to avoid "phainty" in tape ball cricket is bowl fast , aim for block hole and then hope for some late deviation.
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I think it is possible considering if you make the ball wet from one side,with sweat and spit,naturally the ball will tilt towards heavier side.
 
The vast differential between fast bowlers (Pak) and Batsmen (Ind) can be attributed to some extent to this gali-mohalla cricket culture. While in Pakistan, tape ball cricket makes bowlers bowl faster as that is the only way to avoid being hit, in India conventional tennis ball produces a culture (since early childhood) of being stroke making batsmen and not sloggers.
 
amax said:
Hardly played with un taped tennis ball, but I think ans is NO, primary reason being less air speed. Tape ball is very quick through air the best way to avoid "phainty" in tape ball cricket is bowl fast , aim for block hole and then hope for some late deviation.
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An untaped tennis ball spins more. You can hardly spin a tape ball that's why tape ball is not meant for spinners and even medium pacers. Your survival is to bowl quick or have an unusual action like tanvir. Tanvir was a very good tape ball bowler despite not being express because of his action. Played some tape ball stuff against his jhanda chichi team in pindi. He had quite a famous tape ball team in town.
 
anderson is better than shami for sure
and so was zaheer..it was good performance but this west indies batting line up is full of t20 hacks so do not look too much into it
but i loved how he fooled samules and even made chanders dance :P
 
silent ischemia said:
But the slogging concept is right with the tape ball. I still remember some guys in Lahore and pindi who would challenge the bowlers for hitting them for 5 or even 6 sixes in an over.
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Yes some slogers are beast , even their mishits go for six. At my University ground is quite big therefore many batsmen go the ground route in fear of being caught in deep. Well timed stroke off newly taped ball pierce the off side field like rocket.(off side boundaries are usually small).
 
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also i think reverse was never gone form test cricket
its just odis where its impossible to get now with 2 new balls .

i mean steyn can reverse it for south africa and anderson can do it for england
zaheer did it for india and pak is not playing at home otherwise i am sure bowlers would have used this skills ..ofc skill wise no one comes close to waqar or wasim and only zaheer did with older ball and now shami showed glimpse but lets hold our horses ..

good thing his if conditions favor this guy is gonna swing new balls both ways to in similar manner and has seam movement so very very impressive bowling skills now lets see how he changes length and line in south africa (this is where junaid struggled )
 
cricketjoshila said:
I havent seen anyone play with tapeball in India.Its the normal red or green tennis ball that we play with.Here the method is to press the ball on both sides to get a good hard grip and then try to spin it and get bounce.Ofcourse the fast bowlers try to hit the block hole.
Click to expand...

silent ischemia said:
An untaped tennis ball spins more. You can hardly spin a tape ball that's why tape ball is not meant for spinners and even medium pacers. Your survival is to bowl quick or have an unusual action like tanvir. Tanvir was a very good tape ball bowler despite not being express because of his action. Played some tape ball stuff against his jhanda chichi team in pindi. He had quite a famous tape ball team in town.
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Thats what i said.Thats how we play tennis ball cricket in India.Spinners get great spin and even bounce from the tennis ball.
 
Tridibans_16 said:
The vast differential between fast bowlers (Pak) and Batsmen (Ind) can be attributed to some extent to this gali-mohalla cricket culture. While in Pakistan, tape ball cricket makes bowlers bowl faster as that is the only way to avoid being hit, in India conventional tennis ball produces a culture (since early childhood) of being stroke making batsmen and not sloggers.
Click to expand...

How difficult is scoring boundaries off conventional(un taped) tennis ball in somewhat grassy grounds, i have a feeling that grass in outfield can kill momentum of stroke as un taped tennis ball is very light weight.
 
amax said:
How difficult is scoring boundaries off conventional(un taped) tennis ball in somewhat grassy grounds, i have a feeling that grass in outfield can kill momentum of stroke as un taped tennis ball is very light weight.
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Very difficult.Hence you have to have very good timing and slogging doesnt help either because if you dont time the ball well it swerves in the air and falls down before crossing the boundary and you can be out caught as well.
 
He is a new bowler to the International scene and just like most look extremely impressive. Once batsman studies him Sharma will just turn out to be like any other ordinary Indian bowler.
 
Energetic said:
He is a new bowler to the International scene and just like most look extremely impressive. Once batsman studies him Sharma will just turn out to be like any other ordinary Indian bowler.
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this logic works with batsmen and not bowlers
even now when ishant sharma swings the ball he is unplayable his problem is losing the swing

when you get swing and seam movement both ways as a batsman you can prepare for it but when executed right you cannot do anything even if you know he can swing and seam both ways
 
amax said:
How difficult is scoring boundaries off conventional(un taped) tennis ball in somewhat grassy grounds, i have a feeling that grass in outfield can kill momentum of stroke as un taped tennis ball is very light weight.
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+1

When I used to play cricket at school, we had couple of batsmen like Afridi and Akmal (sloggers) and they always scored runs during our intra school matches as the ground had very fast outfield and small boundaries.

Whenever we pklayed anywhere else, a chap known as our Dravid (tuk tuk) always outscored them as his strokes almost always reached the boundaries even on grassy outfileds.
 
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