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Is Mohammad Shami the best reverse swing bowler in the world?

amlafan79 said:
this logic works with batsmen and not bowlers
even now when ishant sharma swings the ball he is unplayable his problem is losing the swing

when you get swing and seam movement both ways as a batsman you can prepare for it but when executed right you cannot do anything even if you know he can swing and seam both ways
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This.. Late swing at pace is always killer and can unsettle best batsman no matter how prepared and settled he his.
 
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amax said:
This.. Late swing at pace is always killer and can unsettle best batsman no matter how prepared and settled he his.
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yep ...everyone in world knows what steyn does day in and day out but still no one can really say i can succeed against him ;)
this is just an example and this is where extra 10 km of pace helps ..
 
Xoib said:
its early days but we could be seeing start of an indian domination era ala windies and Aus. The pace bowling was their only weakness but they seem to be sorting that out aswell.
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haha chill bro, you guys only bowl 130's and still cant bat on good pitches. Without Kohli's 100 you would've been rolled over.
 
fastyy said:
haha chill bro, you guys only bowl 130's and still cant bat on good pitches. Without Kohli's 100 you would've been rolled over.
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ok.

The point remains it took Indian seamers only half an innings to outbowl Pakistani fast bowlers on their south african tour last season.
 
Shami is a good bowler but I would wait for him to complete one year in the test team before passing any judgements on him. He for sure has made a good start to his career. He needs to play less ODI/T20 games and concentrate on tests. Yadav needs to do the same.
 
giri26 said:
Shami is a good bowler but I would wait for him to complete one year in the test team before passing any judgements on him. He for sure has made a good start to his career. He needs to play less ODI/T20 games and concentrate on tests. Yadav needs to do the same.
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yup problem with your pacers is they start with promise but after bowling on flat pattas for a year they turn trundlers has happend for generations but there is something different about Shami he looks the bet Indian seamer since I have started watching.
 
Xoib said:
ok.

The point remains it took Indian seamers only half an innings to outbowl Pakistani fast bowlers on their south african tour last season.
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Outbowled? Get your facts right, even rookie Ehsan Adil picked up just as many wickets as Shami has in his first innnings. Junaid bowled beautifully and picked up three after which he was injured.

Come up with these over the top reactions after your guys actually win something on this tour. This is more or less the same bunch of bowlers that were slaughtered in the ODI leg not too long ago.
 
Isn't Wasim Akram his coach in IPL or something ? No wonder he has mastered reverse swing so early.
 
Bilal7 said:
Outbowled? Get your facts right, even rookie Ehsan Adil picked up just as many wickets as Shami has in his first innnings. Junaid bowled beautifully and picked up three after which he was injured.

Come up with these over the top reactions after your guys actually win something on this tour. This is more or less the same bunch of bowlers that were slaughtered in the ODI leg not too long ago.
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have you actually watch Shami bowl today Adil was lucky to pick a 2 fer while Shami has been threatening all day. Junaid was ok 1 innings and then went missing the next then got hit by a door and he picket 2 not 3 while less said about Gul the better.
 
Xoib said:
have you actually watch Shami bowl today Adil was lucky to pick a 2 fer while Shami has been threatening all day. Junaid was ok 1 innings and then went missing the next then got hit by a door and he picket 2 not 3 while less said about Gul the better.
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How was Adil lucky? If anyone was lucky, it was Sharma when Amla misread his line. Shami has been good, Junaid was better and Shami has also only bowled in one inning so far, just in case you're unaware. Gul was just as good as Zaheer in his first innings.

So your claim of the Indian pacers already having outbowled their Pakistani counterparts is false.
 
Bilal7 said:
How was Adil lucky? If anyone was lucky, it was Sharma when Amla misread his line. Shami has been good, Junaid was better and Shami has also only bowled in one inning so far, just in case you're unaware. Gul was just as good as Zaheer in his first innings.

So your claim of the Indian pacers already having outbowled their Pakistani counterparts is false.
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Zaheer kept going past the edge the whole day don't talk about Gul he is the main reason why we lost at Cape town with Ajmal weaing his magic all that was needed was the main fast bowler to support him by picking at least 2-3 yet he was leaking runs like a tap. Horrible bowler.
 
Bilal7 said:
How was Adil lucky? If anyone was lucky, it was Sharma when Amla misread his line. Shami has been good, Junaid was better and Shami has also only bowled in one inning so far, just in case you're unaware. Gul was just as good as Zaheer in his first innings.

So your claim of the Indian pacers already having outbowled their Pakistani counterparts is false.
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4-fer for Zaheer now don't insult Zaheer buy comparing him with Gul efforts in SA.
 
maddgenius said:
If he was so good..Saffers wont have scored 450+ on the last day pitch
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he had **** support bowled well all day. Sometimes you have to look beyond the stats when judging a young player though he does have 16 wickets in 3 tests. He moves the ball both wats both new and old ball the only downside he is an Indian fastbowler and they tend to have a shorter shelf life then Pakistani batsmen.
 
He was looking good against the poor WI batsmen but SA batsmen have put him back on earth.

Shami is trying a bit too hard IMO. He should try to concentrate more on out-swing and only use in-swing as a surprise.
 
Turning out to be trundler with every match he plays. Carrying the Indian fast bowling tradition.
 
SA played him with ease. Actually after sa finally decided to wake up the whole indian biwling unit looked club level. If he was so good he would habe ripped through in one spell. You dont need support for that.
 
@OP:Nope, definitely not..he has a good shout at being one of the most mediocre trundles in the world though.
 
Mohammad Shami best reverse swing bowler in the world?

Seems a decent bowler, but will have to see how he goes over an extended period. We know what usually happens with the Indian seamers after 6-12 months.

He is 23? Doesn't look it at all. He looks more like 33.
 
loads of reverse in this game. Could be the difference maker for India.
 
Xoib said:
awful handling by Dhoni. However credit to Sa batted really well Shami has a lot of potential and can go far if he can avoid the Indian hype train.
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Awful bowling more like it. Averaged 40+ in this series, looks like another B Kumar.
 
What's with Indians hyping up their players after a couple of good performances over a year or so? I see it happening with Pujara and Kohli now. I hear Pujara is a future ATG now apparently. Just wait and see how they develop first.
 
He didn't it or couldn't bowl with enough pace and fire in this Test.

Reverse swing is only effective at good speed (140kph and above) against good batsmen.
 
shakil said:
He was looking good against the poor WI batsmen but SA batsmen have put him back on earth.

Shami is trying a bit too hard IMO. He should try to concentrate more on out-swing and only use in-swing as a surprise.
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Still think he is the best bowler India has right now. He just needs to keep it simple and concentrate on outswingers
 
steyn shows that he is also the best reverse swing bowler in the world.
 
fastyy said:
haha chill bro, you guys only bowl 130's and still cant bat on good pitches. Without Kohli's 100 you would've been rolled over.
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Bilal7 said:
Outbowled? Get your facts right, even rookie Ehsan Adil picked up just as many wickets as Shami has in his first innnings. Junaid bowled beautifully and picked up three after which he was injured.

Come up with these over the top reactions after your guys actually win something on this tour. This is more or less the same bunch of bowlers that were slaughtered in the ODI leg not too long ago.
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I think Xoaib is pakistani..
 
Shami has lost pace post injuries or is he bowling well within himself ?


If he loses more pace in times ahead than it would be a big blow for India as He was their rising Odi bowler with extremely impressive numbers.
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
Shami has lost pace post injuries or is he bowling well within himself ?


If he loses more pace in times ahead than it would be a big blow for India as He was their rising Odi bowler with extremely impressive numbers.
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In one of the interviews he was saying that he almost felt that his career was over since the injury was far more serious than he had imagined. For months he was on bed only. If this is not too exaggerated then I am sure he is not going to be the same bowler again at least in terms of his pace.
 
kaifmazhar said:
In one of the interviews he was saying that he almost felt that his career was over since the injury was far more serious than he had imagined. For months he was on bed only. If this is not too exaggerated then I am sure he is not going to be the same bowler again at least in terms of his pace.
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Indian pacers have q history of losing pace. Hope Shami is an outlier in that regard.


One of the recent bowlers who struggled with Injuries the most and that too serious ones was Ryan Haris. Before breaking downLast time at Age 35 Haris was consistently bowling at 90mph and many in Australia believed that Haris was bowling the fastest he ever had. Sports Science has changed the world.


Steyn at 33 clocked 150 kph and was the fastest bowler from both sides in the Test he played vs Aus before He broke down.


With Shami clocking 87.4 mph and averaging 83.3 mph Yes he is 4 miles slower than previous Shami but it could be due to the slow pitch where he relied more on variations or he did not bend his back at his max level.

Him being young means He should be able to regain the Pace. Him at his absolute best is what India would want from him in 2019 WC.


Munaf won a WC for India but him losing pace was a very sad sight for World aswell as Indian Cricket. Saw his International Debut and with such an easy runup & action he was bowling 137-147 kph accurate seam bowling. But it all lastest for a short period. If he maintained his pace He could have been the next big thing for Indian Cricket.
 
He was easily going to become the heir to Zaheer Khan but injuries have ruined him. I don't think he should be thrown to the wilderness but it all depends on how he's going to play from here, a lot of Indian fast bowlers fall off so quickly.
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
Shami has lost pace post injuries or is he bowling well within himself ?


If he loses more pace in times ahead than it would be a big blow for India as He was their rising Odi bowler with extremely impressive numbers.
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Saw him bowling even 146 - 147kph in recent srilanka test series and his avg speed was around 141 - 142.He still looks good but he is still not 100% fit.I saw him bowling fast than umesh in this series.
 
No. Riaz, Anderson, Broad, Steyn, Southee are all better.
 
Bilal7 said:
No. Riaz, Anderson, Broad, Steyn, Southee are all better.
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Better at running you mean, for sure. Because none of those bowlers come even close to him as a bowler. Watch some matches and then initiate your vicious venom, that you have for Indians.
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
Indian pacers have q history of losing pace. Hope Shami is an outlier in that regard.


One of the recent bowlers who struggled with Injuries the most and that too serious ones was Ryan Haris. Before breaking downLast time at Age 35 Haris was consistently bowling at 90mph and many in Australia believed that Haris was bowling the fastest he ever had. Sports Science has changed the world.


Steyn at 33 clocked 150 kph and was the fastest bowler from both sides in the Test he played vs Aus before He broke down.


With Shami clocking 87.4 mph and averaging 83.3 mph Yes he is 4 miles slower than previous Shami but it could be due to the slow pitch where he relied more on variations or he did not bend his back at his max level.

Him being young means He should be able to regain the Pace. Him at his absolute best is what India would want from him in 2019 WC.


Munaf won a WC for India but him losing pace was a very sad sight for World aswell as Indian Cricket. Saw his International Debut and with such an easy runup & action he was bowling 137-147 kph accurate seam bowling. But it all lastest for a short period. If he maintained his pace He could have been the next big thing for Indian Cricket.
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I don't know which match you guys are talking about. Shami has been consistently bowling about 140-149 in Tests for atleast one and a half years now. Even in the last day of the test he was bowling at 147k's, which is express for a Test.
 
ExplicitAI said:
He was easily going to become the heir to Zaheer Khan but injuries have ruined him. I don't think he should be thrown to the wilderness but it all depends on how he's going to play from here, a lot of Indian fast bowlers fall off so quickly.
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Can you name 3 Indian fast bowlers who have lost quality in the last 5 years?
 
Probably the only Indian fast bowler whom I can trust on to at least put 6 deliveries in a row on a good line and length at decent pace. Hilarious that our esteemed captain chose to go with a serial overseas failure like Ashwin over Shami in the CT Final.
 
Rightarmfast said:
Can you name 3 Indian fast bowlers who have lost quality in the last 5 years?
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Varun Aaron, Jaydev Unadkat, Mohit Sharma come to my mind but there are other bowlers who have faded way beyond "5 years" so I couldn't really name them.
 
Proactive_ said:
Probably the only Indian fast bowler whom I can trust on to at least put 6 deliveries in a row on a good line and length at decent pace. Hilarious that our esteemed captain chose to go with a serial overseas failure like Ashwin over Shami in the CT Final.
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And now same captain claims shami is in top 3 bowlers currently in world.Idk if virat was doping or not but shami is better bowler in odi's than all bowlers bowled in champions trophy look at his stats and his world cup 2015 performance he averages 24 in odis and i am sure if he keeps bowling well in tests he will avg around 25 - 26.
 
ExplicitAI said:
Varun Aaron, Jaydev Unadkat, Mohit Sharma come to my mind but there are other bowlers who have faded way beyond "5 years" so I couldn't really name them.
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Who told you Jaydev Unadkat and Mohit Sharma were quality bowlers in the Indian team? Nobody in India rated them, and neither were they fast. And are you saying Varun Aaron has lost pace or faded away? He is still bowling in 150's, you can check this years IPL speeds too, to confirm. He was just plagued with injuries, hence wasnt part of the team. Yet he bowls in 150's!
 
Sam99 said:
And now same captain claims shami is in top 3 bowlers currently in world.Idk if virat was doping or not but shami is better bowler in odi's than all bowlers bowled in champions trophy look at his stats and his world cup 2015 performance he averages 24 in odis and i am sure if he keeps bowling well in tests he will avg around 25 - 26.
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wat do u mean by that... (highlighted part)
 
Rightarmfast said:
Who told you Jaydev Unadkat and Mohit Sharma were quality bowlers in the Indian team? Nobody in India rated them, and neither were they fast. And are you saying Varun Aaron has lost pace or faded away? He is still bowling in 150's, you can check this years IPL speeds too, to confirm. He was just plagued with injuries, hence wasnt part of the team. Yet he bowls in 150's!
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Mohit Sharma was rated as one of the best prospects in India after a particular season in the Ranji trophy which meant that India wanted him in the 2015 WC. Maybe Unadkat was a stretch but he was also touted as one for the future by Wasim Akram in KKR. And no Varun Aaron hasn't lost his pace, he's just a useless bowler who gets the same treatment as Wahab Riaz when batsmen hit him out the park.

If you want more bowlers then I can tell you that easily: Praveen Kumar, Ashok Dinda, Irfan Pathan (who briefly made a comeback but lost it again on the second attempt), Ishant Sharma.
 
ExplicitAI said:
Mohit Sharma was rated as one of the best prospects in India after a particular season in the Ranji trophy which meant that India wanted him in the 2015 WC. Maybe Unadkat was a stretch but he was also touted as one for the future by Wasim Akram in KKR. And no Varun Aaron hasn't lost his pace, he's just a useless bowler who gets the same treatment as Wahab Riaz when batsmen hit him out the park.



If you want more bowlers then I can tell you that easily: Praveen Kumar, Ashok Dinda, Irfan Pathan (who briefly made a comeback but lost it again on the second attempt), Ishant Sharma.
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These bowlers in the last 5 years? Irfan was playing in the early 2000, praveen kumar did his part, played as long as he could and then age caught him, ashok dinda was never counted! Ishant Sharma has always been an enigma. and he is still there.
You need to update yourself and check your source :P

btw, about mohit sharma, wasim akram isnt an indian to be rating him! I am afraid you are horribly wrong.
 
Rightarmfast said:
Better at running you mean, for sure. Because none of those bowlers come even close to him as a bowler. Watch some matches and then initiate your vicious venom, that you have for Indians.
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Did you just say that Steyn and Anderson don't even come close to Shami as a bowler? Haha! That's nice.

Sam99 said:
Maybe you are underrating him but he is surely better than Riaz , Southee & Andreson (in Asia) in both ODI's & Tests
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I was talking solely about reverse swing. Shami is good but not the best in the world at that art.
 
Bilal7 said:
Did you just say that Steyn and Anderson don't even come close to Shami as a bowler? Haha! That's nice.



I was talking solely about reverse swing. Shami is good but not the best in the world at that art.
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I am glad a little sense prevailed and you didnt mention a nobody like Riaz :). Steyn is better, Anderson.. Ummmm, I am not sure!
 
Rightarmfast said:
These bowlers in the last 5 years? Irfan was playing in the early 2000, praveen kumar did his part, played as long as he could and then age caught him, ashok dinda was never counted! Ishant Sharma has always been an enigma. and he is still there.
You need to update yourself and check your source :P

btw, about mohit sharma, wasim akram isnt an indian to be rating him! I am afraid you are horribly wrong.
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So you're saying that the current bowlers are world beaters? Not saying that they're bad (Bhuvi, Shami, Bumrah) but majority of Indian pacers before these guys fell off hard and that's a fact. You're saying that they're not meaning that they should warrant a comeback for the 2019 WC, I don't think they're good enough as the current crop are pretty good and better than the ones from the past.
 
Definitely one of the best, along with Steyn, Anderson, Broad, Riaz and Umesh. Hasan Ali will join this list in the upcoming years.
 
Is Shami better than Zaheer? And when was the last time India had a trio of good fast bowlers? (Bhuvi, Bumrah, Shami/Umesh)
 
aloo paratha said:
Definitely one of the best, along with Steyn, Anderson, Broad, Riaz and Umesh. Hasan Ali will join this list in the upcoming years.
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Either Wahab Raiz is overrated hell alot on pp or i missed his best in tests atleast i would play Amir anyday over him.Correct me please.
 
ExplicitAI said:
So you're saying that the current bowlers are world beaters? Not saying that they're bad (Bhuvi, Shami, Bumrah) but majority of Indian pacers before these guys fell off hard and that's a fact. You're saying that they're not meaning that they should warrant a comeback for the 2019 WC, I don't think they're good enough as the current crop are pretty good and better than the ones from the past.
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Don't divert from the topic. I never said a thing like that. You said that Indian bowlers tend to fall off track, and I just wanted to say that thats not true. While it used to be true about 10yrs ago, it isnt true anymore. And any team, btw, have a lot of players who do not make it big despite the talent. No big deal there. But the fast bowlers from India, off late, have been maintaining their pace and their quality.
So what I am saying is, your statement was more on an assumption, a stereotype than on facts!
 
idrizzy said:
Is Shami better than Zaheer? And when was the last time India had a trio of good fast bowlers? (Bhuvi, Bumrah, Shami/Umesh)
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Shami is close to Zaheer. Around 2003, India had Srinath, Zaheer and Nehra bowling in tandem for a short period of time. They were quick, they were dangerous and mean. I think that was the only other time.

But apart from Bhuvi, Bumrah, Shami/Umesh, we still have varun who still bowls in 150's and we have a decent pool of youngsters who bowl around the 90mph mark and bowl pretty well.
 
Sam99 said:
Either Wahab Raiz is overrated hell alot on pp or i missed his best in tests atleast i would play Amir anyday over him.Correct me please.
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I would play Amir over him any day too, but we're talking about reverse swing bowling, in which Amir is average.
 
Rightarmfast said:
Don't divert from the topic. I never said a thing like that. You said that Indian bowlers tend to fall off track, and I just wanted to say that thats not true. While it used to be true about 10yrs ago, it isnt true anymore. And any team, btw, have a lot of players who do not make it big despite the talent. No big deal there. But the fast bowlers from India, off late, have been maintaining their pace and their quality.
So what I am saying is, your statement was more on an assumption, a stereotype than on facts!
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I'm not diverting from the topic at all. I didn't even say that all Indian bowlers fall off, only a large fraction of them do which is true and there have been successful Indian bowlers in the past like Kapil Dev and Zaheer Khan who were quality. It's a similar trend with Pak batsman where many of them have fallen off whereas a few like Babar Azam would end up having a fruitful career. BK and Shami have done well so far but Shami is plagued by injuries so he's going to have to work hard to get back to his best. And no my views are based on what I've seen, India always choose players for WC's who are capable of winning the trophy and don't bring any dead wood with them. After watching past bilaterals, I haven't seen Binny, Mohit Sharma, Ishant Sharma, Praveen Kumar, Balaji etc, of whom some made their debuts and not played after whereas others who've played before but failed to impress on the second comeback. You have players like Nehra who has played for a long time and has come back for T20's like last year.
 
ExplicitAI said:
I'm not diverting from the topic at all. I didn't even say that all Indian bowlers fall off, only a large fraction of them do which is true and there have been successful Indian bowlers in the past like Kapil Dev and Zaheer Khan who were quality. It's a similar trend with Pak batsman where many of them have fallen off whereas a few like Babar Azam would end up having a fruitful career. BK and Shami have done well so far but Shami is plagued by injuries so he's going to have to work hard to get back to his best. And no my views are based on what I've seen, India always choose players for WC's who are capable of winning the trophy and don't bring any dead wood with them. After watching past bilaterals, I haven't seen Binny, Mohit Sharma, Ishant Sharma, Praveen Kumar, Balaji etc, of whom some made their debuts and not played after whereas others who've played before but failed to impress on the second comeback. You have players like Nehra who has played for a long time and has come back for T20's like last year.
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In the past, we used to have bowlers who would lose quality and you are right about that. But now, its more like we tend to get better performers and hence you dont see some of the names. We have better bowlers than Ishant. Ishant has not performed badly, but we just have bowlers who are better than him and hence he is not chosen anymore.
Praveen Kumar used to play around 2010, Binny was never a bowler, he was more of a makeshift allrounder, Mohit sharma was never quality.
 
Best pacer in Asia at least in tests,only if he was a bit more taller would had done well in Aus too then.
 
Rightarmfast said:
In the past, we used to have bowlers who would lose quality and you are right about that. But now, its more like we tend to get better performers and hence you dont see some of the names. We have better bowlers than Ishant. Ishant has not performed badly, but we just have bowlers who are better than him and hence he is not chosen anymore.
Praveen Kumar used to play around 2010, Binny was never a bowler, he was more of a makeshift allrounder, Mohit sharma was never quality.
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If they were never quality in the first place then why did India select them in ICC tournaments?
 
ExplicitAI said:
If they were never quality in the first place then why did India select them in ICC tournaments?
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I think Virat Kohli is a better batsman than Saurav Ganguly. By your logic, its fair to say why pick Saurav Ganguly at all because at some point of time in future Virat Kohli would make his debut...
 
Sam99 said:
Saw him bowling even 146 - 147kph in recent srilanka test series and his avg speed was around 141 - 142.He still looks good but he is still not 100% fit.I saw him bowling fast than umesh in this series.
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That is great. But currently as per CI Hawkeye Speeds are down.
 
Rightarmfast said:
I don't know which match you guys are talking about. Shami has been consistently bowling about 140-149 in Tests for atleast one and a half years now. Even in the last day of the test he was bowling at 147k's, which is express for a Test.
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You needed to quote me than. I mentioned speeds of those days from relevant matches.
 
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