Is MS Dhoni an ATG?

[Indian_Supporter]

He captained India to world cup win .That alone qualifies him as ATG .How many players are even comparable in that regard lol

If someone like Cook can be considered ATG great solely based on his test record then so is Dhoni for his ODI achievements .

So true.

A world cup winner.
A champions trophy winner.
A T20 WC winner
Lead India to rank 1 side
Most W/L ratio in test as a skipper than any other Asian captains
2 Champions league winner (lets ignore IPL)
54 avg ODI batsman
38 avg test batsman
250+ Stumpings/catches

If he is not an ATG, some people need to get their head check up.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

[Arham_PakFan]

Dhoni is an ATG wicketkeeping batsman

 

[BeautifulGame]

Seeing this I have another question ?

Do people consider Ranatunga as ATG ?

 

[Ankit007]

Adding a requirement for those innings to be in a match where the player is keeping rises him up to 13th.

(Keeping and batting at 7)

So it means he was an excellent player in tests and an ATG in ODIs. I think he qualifies to be an ATG overall then!

 

[pillionrider]

As an overall cricketer, he wouldn't be an ATG because Tests are still the basis for this rating.

However, I'm here just to make the point that his wicketkeeping is grossly underrated. I'd have him as the best after Boucher as a keeper. His keeping to spinners is quite phenomenal which Boucher didn't have to contend with for most of his career.

 

[HitWicket]

So it means he was an excellent player in tests and an ATG in ODIs. I think he qualifies to be an ATG overall then!

13th isnt very high up at all in this list, its just above the middle...

 

[BeautifulGame]

As an overall cricketer, he wouldn't be an ATG because Tests are still the basis for this rating.

However, I'm here just to make the point that his wicketkeeping is grossly underrated. I'd have him as the best after Boucher as a keeper. His keeping to spinners is quite phenomenal which Boucher didn't have to contend with for most of his career.

Based on what exactly ?

World cup Cup is the biggest thing in cricket.

Heck not just cricket its the same in most other sports as well

 

[Ankit007]

So true.

A world cup winner.
A champions trophy winner.
A T20 WC winner
Lead India to rank 1 side
Most W/L ratio in test as a skipper than any other Asian captains
2 Champions league winner (lets ignore IPL)
54 avg ODI batsman
38 avg test batsman
250+ Stumpings/catches

If he is not an ATG, some people need to get their head check up.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

near about 300 catches and stumping in tests and approx 350 in ODIs

 

[dandapinda]

Based on what exactly ?

World cup Cup is the biggest thing in cricket

Winning WC alone as Captain doesn't make some one ATG otherwise Clarke also becomes ATG.

But overall it's different story when names like Amla & Younis thrown as ATGs

 

[Ankit007]

13th isnt very high up at all in this list, its just above the middle...

Consider top 10 as greats but 10 to 15 still stand excellent players. What wrong I said? Plus his achievements as a captain and as an ODI batsman, greatest finisher. Why he doesnt get to all time ATG list?

 

[Thivagar]

He captained India to world cup win .That alone qualifies him as ATG .How many players are even comparable in that regard lol

If someone like Cook can be considered ATG great solely based on his test record then so is Dhoni for his ODI achievements .

He had all the players he needed to win the WC. Anyone who captained that team would have won India the WC.

 

[HitWicket]

Consider top 10 as greats but 10 to 15 still stand excellent players. What wrong I said? Plus his achievements as a captain and as an ODI batsman, greatest finisher. Why he doesnt get to all time ATG list?

Worth noting the likes of Dujon, Moin Khan and Parks are all in the top 10...

 

[Indian_Supporter]

near about 300 catches and stumping in tests and approx 350 in ODIs

Like a boss

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

[BeautifulGame]

Winning WC alone as Captain doesn't make some one ATG otherwise Clarke also becomes ATG.

But overall it's different story when names like Amla & Younis thrown as ATGs

Clarke won't be ATG simply because he was too injury prone and hence wasn't really the one who build that team .

He barely played 50% of their games before the world after becoming Captain .

 

[Thivagar]

He is a really good batsmen. Will have him in my ODI and T20 line up any day. Not really sure about being a ATG. Just 20 MOM awards though.

 

[BeautifulGame]

He had all the players he needed to win the WC. Anyone who captained that team would have won India the WC.

Munaf Sreesanth Yuvraj Zaheer Harbajan Nehra

Find me a worse bowling attack that to have won the world cup

 

[Ankit007]

Worth noting the likes of Dujon, Moin Khan and Parks are all in the top 10...

I also asked you to include his ODI achievements I guess.

 

[dandapinda]

Munaf Sreesanth Yuvraj Zaheer Harbajan Nehra

Find me a worse bowling attack that to have won the world cup

Are you crediting their bowling to Dhoni?

Yuvi won us WC along with excellent play by most of players...

 

[BeautifulGame]

Are you crediting their bowling to Dhoni?

Yuvi won us WC along with excellent play by most of players...

Yes to his captaincy which played a major part in our bowling performances .

Most wanted Yuvi dropped from the world cup squad with his horrible form .If not for Dhoni staunch backing Yuvi wouldn't have been in the team let alone MOS performance

 

[Bilal7]

His desperate fanboys have failed to mention that he was on Forbes list of richest athletes. This proves that he is as good as Sachin and Imran.

 

[Thivagar]

How would you compare Dhoni with Ganguly just based on batting ?

 

[octavian]

Definitely an ODI ATG. Not in Tests. Overall not an ATG.

 

[Ankit007]

He had all the players he needed to win the WC. Anyone who captained that team would have won India the WC.

Are you crazy? Not anyone bro. Only Dhoni was the man in that team who could have done that. Players like Munaf Patel, Chawla, Sreesanth, nehra dont deserve a world cup but bcoz of him they got it.
If that could have been the case then why didnt Ganguly won the cup with more or less the same team. Or why didnt Wasim Akram did? but Imran Khan did, Maybe thats the reason Pakistan hails him

 

[Bilal7]

Yes to his captaincy which played a major part in our bowling performances .

Most wanted Yuvi dropped from the world cup squad with his horrible form .If not for Dhoni staunch backing Yuvi wouldn't have been in the team let alone MOS performance

The selectors pick the squad.

 

[SL_Fan]

LOI exploits alone won’t make a player an ATG. For one thing most sides don’t even take LOIs all that seriously these days. Not to mention everything being geared towards the batsmen as well. Test performances far outweigh everything else. That has been the case all these years and it will continue to be so as long as the game exists. As for Dhoni in Tests he averages well under 40 overall and just over 30 away. He has scored only one Test ton outside of India (1 in Pakistan and 5 in India in around 150 innings). For a modern-day wk/bat those numbers are certainly not ATG material. At least if his Test keeping was up there with the likes of Healy and co then might have made up for some of it but that’s not the case either. So he is without a doubt an ODI ATG but overall falls well below ATG level. Out of the modern-day wk/bats Gilly and Andy Flower are the only two ATGs for mine.

 

[Raj-MSDian]

How many wicket keeper batsmen can you name who you would pick over him (Who kept all through their career, not like sanga, or AB or dravid). He absolutely is. People can live in delusion because they hate success.

 

[Thivagar]

Munaf Sreesanth Yuvraj Zaheer Harbajan Nehra

Find me a worse bowling attack that to have won the world cup

He had Shehwag, Gambhir, Sachin, Kohli, Yuvraj, Himself, Raina batting in an Indian pitch.........what else you want ? Harbhachuck and Zaheer Khan were good then. So it is a poor comparison.

 

[Ankit007]

Are you crediting their bowling to Dhoni?

Yuvi won us WC along with excellent play by most of players...

He is doing it on basis of field placements and his ability to bring best out of them, It was him who asked Ishant to ball short on Lords pitch. It was him who asked to bowl to Ishant in Chamions trophy final. His decision making ability is what he is talking about which cannot be ignored, he allowed players to improve their fielding which made us one of the best fielding teams,

and many such things

 

[eradicator]

Average of 38 in Tests lol. He was a useless garbage Test batsman outside the SC who couldn't bat to save his life. Not even a single Test ton outside SC for Dhoni, thats how crap he was.

Also one of the worst Batsman in T20 Internationals with a pathetic S/R and not a single 50 + score . Also has lost numerous T20 matches with his tuk tuk.

ATG Odi Batsman

Overall not even miles around the ATG tag.

 

[BeautifulGame]

He had Shehwag, Gambhir, Sachin, Kohli, Yuvraj, Himself, Raina batting in an Indian pitch.........what else you want ? Harbhachuck and Zaheer Khan were good then. So it is a poor comparison.

We also had Sachin Ganguly Sehwag Dravid Yuvraj Dhoni and Uthappa in 2007 world cup and were dumped out in first round .

And Harbajan wasn't good then.He was already struggling badly in test cricket and looking very average in ODIs as well.
Only experience kept him in the team ahead of Ashwin

 

[Thivagar]

How many wicket keeper batsmen can you name who you would pick over him (Who kept all through their career, not like sanga, or AB or dravid). He absolutely is. People can live in delusion because they hate success.

Sangakkara stopped keeping in the last 3-4 years in Tests. Can't compare Sanga with AB or Dravid.

 

[Thivagar]

We also had Sachin Ganguly Sehwag Dravid Yuvraj Dhoni and Uthappa in 2007 world cup and were dumped out in first round .

And Harbajan wasn't good then.He was already struggling badly in test cricket and looking very average in ODIs as well.
Only experience kept him in the team ahead of Ashwin

Uthappa is a choke, Ganguly was in his downfall and how was the bowling line up ? any better ? don't think so.

 

[eradicator]

Matt Prior was easily twice the Test Batsman Dhoni ever was. Prior had the knack of playing counter attack match winning innings, Dhoni looked like a Tailender worse than Ashwin with the bat outside the SC.

 

[SL_Fan]

Sanga kept wickets in around 50 Tests which is a fair few (third of his matches). Like Dhoni he was nothing special as a wk/bat in Tests. Not an easy job.

 

[dandapinda]

Are you crazy? Not anyone bro. Only Dhoni was the man in that team who could have done that. Players like Munaf Patel, Chawla, Sreesanth, nehra dont deserve a world cup but bcoz of him they got it.

Then why these became failure later?

 

[giri26]

Certainly an Indian great, but not quite an ATG (overall - not even an Indian great if you consider just tests)..

However, he has achieved everything one can in ODIs and is certainly in the league of Bevan, Sachin, Jayasuriya etc in that regard.

That is a funny claim...How many better Keeper batsmen we have had better than Dhoni in our history? He is an Indian great for sure.

 

[pillionrider]

Based on what exactly ?

World cup Cup is the biggest thing in cricket.

Heck not just cricket its the same in most other sports as well

Well it just is, and I agree with it without any interest in being some sort of purist.

The World Cup is not the pinnacle of everything. It might be the most satisfying for a player. But Steyn, Lara are ATGs as would have been Sachin had he not won a WC.

 

[BeautifulGame]

Uthappa is a choke, Ganguly was in his downfall and how was the bowling line up ? any better ? don't think so.

Firstly Ganguly was our best bat in the 2007 and averaged well over 50 .

And both Sachin and Sehwag were also in their downfall in 2011 as well .

And Yuvi averaged 28 the year before world cup started and has since average of 18 after the world cup .

Actually our 2007 attack probably the most exciting (over hyped )ever to a world cup untill it sucked comically .

 

[Ab Fan]

Among players who debuted post 2000s(combining both formats with slight preference to test)overall the top five cricketers are:
Dale Steyn(by far the best bowler)
Kumar Sangakkara(the ony ATG batsmen till now post 2000s)
Graeme Smith(brilliant captain,arguably an ATG batsmen)
Michael Clarke(brilliant captain, WC winner.great batsmen in both formats)
AB De Villiers(already an ATG in ODIs,excellent in tests and arguably the best fielder post 2000s)

these five are followed by MS Dhoni,Amla/Cook,KP, Anderson and so on...

 

[BeautifulGame]

Add to the other post It definitely wasn't a batting line all in its peak conquering everyone before them as u are suggesting .If anything we mostly scrapped with the bat in both the QF and Semi final and it was the bowling that bailed out our team in both matches .

 

[dandapinda]

Add to the other post It definitely wasn't a batting line all in its peak conquering everyone before them as u are suggesting .If anything we mostly scrapped with the bat in both the QF and Semi final and it was the bowling that bailed out our team in both matches .

Dhoni himself a weak link in batting till final.

Yuvi & Raina saved us multiple times.

 

[CricketAnalyst]

Among players who debuted post 2000s(combining both formats with slight preference to test)overall the top five cricketers are:
Dale Steyn(by far the best bowler)
Kumar Sangakkara(the ony ATG batsmen till now post 2000s)
Graeme Smith(brilliant captain,arguably an ATG batsmen)
Michael Clarke(brilliant captain, WC winner.great batsmen in both formats)
AB De Villiers(already an ATG in ODIs,excellent in tests and arguably the best fielder post 2000s)

these five are followed by MS Dhoni,Amla/Cook,KP, Anderson and so on...

Dhoni is miles above all the rest except AB.

Steyn is relatively weak in limited overs, meaning he couldn't deal with being hit. Exceptional Test bowler, but can't be compared to the all-conquering Indian captain who did it an all three formats (seriously, both formats as a phrase does not make sense when there are three formats)

Sanga is just not all that strong in the limited overs until recently. Just another batsmen who piled up mountains of runs in a format where batsmen face no pressure and can spend all day piling on runs.

Graeme Smith. See above. In comparison to Dhoni never led his sides (even very strong ones) to World Cup or Champions Trophy success.

Clarke, better credentials than the rest, but nowhere near Dhoni level.

AB is so good a batsman in all three formats that he can enter the discussion notwithstanding WC chokes.

 

[BeautifulGame]

Dhoni himself a weak link in batting till final.

Yuvi & Raina saved us multiple times.

The whole team was a mess untill we pulled through in the knock outs .After the group stage I remember most pundits making Aussies the favourites for the QF .Heck David Lloyd was laughing at our bowling attack and suggestions of us being favourites after one game .

That's what made winning the world cup even more sweater proving plenty wrong in the process

 

[dandapinda]

The whole team was a mess untill we pulled through in the knock outs .After the group stage I remember most pundits making Aussies the favourites for the QF .Heck David Lloyd was laughing at our bowling attack and suggestions of us being favourites after one game .

That's what made winning the world cup even more sweater proving plenty wrong in the process

By how Dhoni is responsible for this? If he is unable to get bowling attack right till knockout how he gets credit for last 3 matches??

 

[BeautifulGame]

By how Dhoni is responsible for this? If he is unable to get bowling attack right till knockout how he gets credit for last 3 matches??

Yes .Dhoni as Captain gets massive credit for pulling the team when it mattered .Until Dhoni we were complete chokers in every big game .

 

[dandapinda]

Yes .Dhoni as Captain gets massive credit for pulling the team when it mattered .Until Dhoni we were complete chokers in every big game .

That's theory, I want to know how it's done.If some one not able to get better results from bowling unit till knock out but suddenly get it right for 3 matches what magic is applied?

Why this magic failed in 2015?

 

[Ankit007]

Then why these became failure later?

They were failiures all the time. It was dhoni who made them look good. They didnt had fielding abilities. And according to the changes in cricket, he did changes in his squad and we won the champions trophy.

 

[dandapinda]

They were failiures all the time. It was dhoni who made them look good. They didnt had fielding abilities. And according to the changes in cricket, he did changes in his squad and we won the champions trophy.

But why he is able to make them good in only one series? Why not in other series? If they are always failure why they were selected in first place??

 

[BeautifulGame]

That's theory, I want to know how it's done.If some one not able to get better results from bowling unit till knock out but suddenly get it right for 3 matches what magic is applied?

Why this magic failed in 2015?

2 world cups and 1 CT reality not theory

We chocked in every big game under Ganguly again reality not theory

 

[Ankit007]

That's theory, I want to know how it's done.If some one not able to get better results from bowling unit till knock out but suddenly get it right for 3 matches what magic is applied?

Why this magic failed in 2015?

We didnt do bad in wc15 as well. Won every match untill semis. In the end he is a human not god. He also can lose one match right?

 

[dandapinda]

2 world cups and 1 CT reality not theory

We chocked in every big game under Ganguly again reality not theory

5 WC & 1 CT failure to win??

 

[Buffet]

In current era, ATG players have to be gun in one format and decent in another. That's the first requirement and then I will take it from there. Being gun in both formats makes it a sure shot ATG player. Gun means really gun here.

Dhoni is a strong contender for an all time world ODI XI and all time Asian Test XI. I guess combination of these two may put him in ATG category for many, but many may not put him as an ATG category due to weaker skill set in the Test format. I do rate test higher than ODI.

I don't consider Dhoni as an ATG overall. He just misses out for me. Now in general, I will never rate any current era player as an ATG if the player is crap in either the ODI or the Test format. That will eliminate many names thrown in this thread.

 

[dandapinda]

We didnt do bad in wc15 as well. Won every match untill semis. In the end he is a human not god. He also can lose one match right?

So if we win Dhoni is God, if we lose Dhoni is human..,.nice logic.

 

[BeautifulGame]

5 WC & 1 CT failure to win??

2 WC and 1 CT.Most successful Indian captain ever

 

[Ankit007]

But why he is able to make them good in only one series? Why not in other series? If they are always failure why they were selected in first place??

I have already replied you answer. He was given a squad which was not the best in wc. Aussies had better team. But we still won. Thats his ability.

not in other series because of their inability to field well. He had a vision of future. He asked for youngsters. Otherwise we would have been like pak in fielding.

 

[Ankit007]

So if we win Dhoni is God, if we lose Dhoni is human..,.nice logic.

When did i say that he is god? Its your logic maybe.
I just said he is an ATG.

 

[dandapinda]

I have already replied you answer. He was given a squad which was not the best in wc. Aussies had better team. But we still won. Thats his ability.

not in other series because of their inability to field well. He had a vision of future. He asked for youngsters. Otherwise we would have been like pak in fielding.

So in other series their fielding suddenly disabled....strange logic here.

 

[dandapinda]

When did i say that he is god? Its your logic maybe.
I just said he is an ATG.

He is a ODI ATG..,.but if Amla & Younis are ATGs then Dhoni is bigger ATG.

 

[Ankit007]

So in other series their fielding suddenly disabled....strange logic here.

It wasnt sudden. They were given enough chances. Only nehra i would say was unfortunate coz he went out due to injury

 

[Robert]

In ODIs, certainly.

In tests, certainly not. Give me Boucher or Prior any day.

 

[Ankit007]

He is a ODI ATG..,.but if Amla & Younis are ATGs then Dhoni is bigger ATG.

Not at all a wrong statement i would say

 

[Robert]

That is a funny claim...How many better Keeper batsmen we have had better than Dhoni in our history? He is an Indian great for sure.

Engineer?

 

[Chrish]

ATGs by India: Sach, Sunny, Drav

By Pak: Captain, Wasim, Waqar

That's it! Can't decide whether Kapil belongs here based on numbers.. Never saw him play. Will leave him out for now.

 

[CricketAnalyst]

In current era, ATG players have to be gun in one format and decent in another. That's the first requirement and then I will take it from there. Being gun in both formats makes it a sure shot ATG player. Gun means really gun here.

Dhoni is a strong contender for an all time world ODI XI and all time Asian Test XI. I guess combination of these two may put him in ATG category for many, but many may not put him as an ATG category due to weaker skill set in the Test format. I do rate test higher than ODI.

I don't consider Dhoni as an ATG overall. He just misses out for me. Now in general, I will never rate any current era player as an ATG if the player is crap in either the ODI or the Test format. That will eliminate many names thrown in this thread.

There are three formats.

Ignoring one proves not the irrelevance of that format, but ignorance and bigotry of the one making that judgement.

Agree with everything else you said, except that all formats have to be equal and I think Dhoni is not just an ATG he is one of the greatest players to ever play cricket and will be remembered as such.

 

[Ab Fan]

Dhoni is miles above all the rest except AB.

Steyn is relatively weak in limited overs, meaning he couldn't deal with being hit. Exceptional Test bowler, but can't be compared to the all-conquering Indian captain who did it an all three formats (seriously, both formats as a phrase does not make sense when there are three formats)

Sanga is just not all that strong in the limited overs until recently. Just another batsmen who piled up mountains of runs in a format where batsmen face no pressure and can spend all day piling on runs.

Graeme Smith. See above. In comparison to Dhoni never led his sides (even very strong ones) to World Cup or Champions Trophy success.

Clarke, better credentials than the rest, but nowhere near Dhoni level.

AB is so good a batsman in all three formats that he can enter the discussion notwithstanding WC chokes.

You are ignoring the most important format-tests.I will certainly give preference to tests over odis and in ODIs WC stats also matter.

Dhoni was a mediocre test captain.An ATG odi cricketer but just a decent test bat.Smith in tests achieved as much as captain as Dhoni in LOIs.Smith was a good odi bat too and a great opener.I would go with Smith overall.His team stayed on no.1 position in tests for a good period.

Dale Steyn is so far ahead of other bowlers in tests that his odi stats doesn't really comes to context.He is not just an ATG but among the top tiers.

Sangakkara is the only ATG test batsmen till now post 2000s debutant for me.He has brilliant stats in WC and he starred in a middle tier team who made it to WC finals twice.They did well in other tournaments also. Anyways he being a prolific test scorer and an avg of 58 (irrespective of minnow bashing) makes it ahead of Dhoni.

Clarke was a great captain and a very good player irrespective of any formats.

 

[giri26]

Engineer?

The point is there have not been many...The only way Dhoni misses out being an Indian great is if we had some one at Gilchrist level. We have had just 1 player who might be better or equal to Dhoni in our entire history as a Wicket keeper batsman. Dhoni was also a captain and took India to number 1 test team in the world. So I will still consider him as an Indian great. Not ATG but Indian great for sure.

 

[Ankit007]

In ODIs, certainly.

In tests, certainly not. Give me Boucher or Prior any day.

Prior(Average 40) just had average just 2 more than Dhoni(Ave 38). Dhoni had advantage of captaincy and better wicketkeeping.

And Boucher not even stands a bit, His average is way less i.e. just 30. Still you consider them ahead of Dhoni?

 

[CricketAnalyst]

You are ignoring the most important format-tests.I will certainly give preference to tests over odis and in ODIs WC stats also matter.

Dhoni was a mediocre test captain.An ATG odi cricketer but just a decent test bat.Smith in tests achieved as much as captain as Dhoni in LOIs.Smith was a good odi bat too and a great opener.I would go with Smith overall.His team stayed on no.1 position in tests for a good period.

Dale Steyn is so far ahead of other bowlers in tests that his odi stats doesn't really comes to context.He is not just an ATG but among the top tiers.

Sangakkara is the only ATG test batsmen till now for me.He has brilliant stats in WC and he starred in a middle tier team who made it to WC finals twice.They did well in other tournaments also. Anyways he being a prolific test scorer and an avg of 58 (irrespective of minnow bashing) makes it ahead of Dhoni.

Clarke was a great captain and a very good player irrespective of any formats.

I am not ignoring Tests.

On the contrary, you are ignoring except Tests.

Discrimination is when you think that treating everyone equally=ignoring you.

That's true in the context of racism/sexism but also here, treating every format equally does not mean I'm ignoring Tests.

Just blindly asserting that only Test stats are relevant or that someone useless in 2/3 formats can be ATG because of Test is ignoring all other formats.

 

[Energetic]

ATG
World Class
Very good
Good
Average
Below Average
Poor
Very poor

I label Dhoni as a very good cricketer. Definitely not world class. Don't forget, his batting record in ODIs is seriously inflated. He averages higher than Kohli. Kohli is world class but won't become an ATG even if he has the most ODI 100s. Kohli can't bat when the ball turns, swing or seams – players such as Sachin and Dravid could hence are ATG.

 

[CricketAnalyst]

ATG
World Class
Very good
Good
Average
Below Average
Poor
Very poor

I label Dhoni as a very good cricketer. Definitely not world class. Don't forget, his batting record in ODIs is seriously inflated. He averages higher than Kohli. Kohli is world class but won't become an ATG even if he has the most ODI 100s. Kohli can't bat when the ball turns, swing or seams – players such as Sachin and Dravid could hence are ATG.

'Seriously inflated'. By what exactly? His SR equally important if not more so is also exceptional as well as his play in tough situations.

Dravid for all this alleged ability averaged far less than everyone else in this discussion and he scored at match-losing rates. Dravid was very simply incompetent for the most of his career at limited overs cricket and played several match-losing efforts.

Only in Tests is Dravid in the same convo as Dravid and that's why Dravid isn't ATG at all. Not even World Class really, and frankly I hate giving a one format wonder 'very good'.

Dhoni has done it all in all formats with the added burden of captaining and keeping. This is just a ridiculous assertion.

 

[CricketAnalyst]

Here's how I rate players:

You are picking a team of 11 players with one being captain. You don't know what format it will be or what conditions will be there. Whom would you pick?

I'd definitely have Dhoni very high on the list of players I might want.

Off-hand, only AB, Viv Richards, Sachin Tendulkar maybe Akram would rank higher.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Good enough for a WK batsman. He's no Gilchrist, but he can easily make the all-time Asian XI as a WK batsman, if we exclude Sangakkara because he didn't keep for more than half of his Test career.

An ODI ATG no doubt, has captained his team to every single ICC trophy and has also lead them to the number one ranking in Tests. I don't think it's a funny claim, he might not be a true ATG but he's close. A very iconic cricketer no doubt, with a long lasting legacy.

1 century in Pakistan and 5 in India, not a single century anywhere else. There is no way he is an ATG. Sangakarra was a better WK batsman (better stats), Bari and Latif were better pure keepers. Dhoni was similar to Sarfaraz in tests, average to good wicketkeeper and handy #7 batsman.

Regarding his captaincy, his team had Tendulkar, Sehwag, Dravid, Laxman, and Zaheer, any decent captain would have achieved the same results.

Going by achievements in ODIs, if Dhoni is an ATG, then so are Bevan, Devilliers, and Kholi.

 

[Ankit007]

Here's how I rate players:

You are picking a team of 11 players with one being captain. You don't know what format it will be or what conditions will be there. Whom would you pick?

I'd definitely have Dhoni very high on the list of players I might want.

Off-hand, only AB, Viv Richards, Sachin Tendulkar maybe Akram would rank higher.

Same here. But I guess one more name is to be added. Its gonna be Don Bradman.

 

[Ab Fan]

I am not ignoring Tests.

On the contrary, you are ignoring except Tests.

Discrimination is when you think that treating everyone equally=ignoring you.

That's true in the context of racism/sexism but also here, treating every format equally does not mean I'm ignoring Tests.

Just blindly asserting that only Test stats are relevant or that someone useless in 2/3 formats can be ATG because of Test is ignoring all other formats.

Nobody gives a damn to T20s where hacks like Gayle, McCullum, Maxwell are greats.Tests are real deal- a format which requires more skill and more hardwork.Anyways I don't think I am ignoring odis and WC completely. You can have your opinions and rankings.

 

[Indian_Supporter]

The selectors pick the squad.

Unlike Pakistan, system works very differently in India. Here selectors and coaches are fine, its the skipper who takes most of the call including team selection. Heck India does not have a full time proper coach for long time.

Indian skipper is the most powerful man in Indian cricket. His word is the last word. Everyone listens and respects his opinion. Hence less infightings etc. within which we see in other teams.

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[Indian_Supporter]

In ODIs, certainly.

In tests, certainly not. Give me Boucher or Prior any day.

Depends on where you are playing the test match. Just for your knowledge test cricket is played outside England and in sub continent as well. MSD in his prime was much destructive test batsman than prior or boucher, atleast on SC conditions.

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[The_Odd_One]

Are you crazy? Not anyone bro. Only Dhoni was the man in that team who could have done that. Players like Munaf Patel, Chawla, Sreesanth, nehra dont deserve a world cup but bcoz of him they got it.
If that could have been the case then why didnt Ganguly won the cup with more or less the same team. Or why didnt Wasim Akram did? but Imran Khan did, Maybe thats the reason Pakistan hails him

May be because both Akram and Ganguly were facing probably the greatest ODI team ever (Australia) in challenging conditions of England and South Africa, while, Dhoni was facing Sri Lanka in India?

Imran khan did it in Australia against the best team of that WC (England) with a fairly inexperienced team and therefore he is rightly credited for that WC win.

 

[Pakcricket89]

An ODI ATG, not so good in Tests and T20s

 

[Pakcricket89]

Depends on where you are playing the test match. Just for your knowledge test cricket is played outside England and in sub continent as well. MSD in his prime was much destructive test batsman than prior or boucher, atleast on SC conditions.

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Prior was a better test bat and Boucher was the better keeper but its meaningless they arent themselves ATGs. ATG Keeper batsmen are people like Andy Flower and Gilchrist. Dujon was class in the 80s.

Dhoni is a good keeper bat in tests but far from ATG status

 

[The_Odd_One]

Depends on where you are playing the test match. Just for your knowledge test cricket is played outside England and in sub continent as well. MSD in his prime was much destructive test batsman than prior or boucher, atleast on SC conditions.

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Dhoni played 45 tests in India and Pakistan and scored 6 centuries. Interestingly, he also played 45 tests outside subcontinent and guess what he did not score a single century anywhere else. What does it tell you about him as a test bat?

Dhoni has 6 centuries in 144 test innings and Moin khan has 4 in 104 innings. 2 of Moin's centuries were scored in England and New Zealand. The point is that Dhoni, even though an ATG in ODIs, was an average player in tests.