Is racism common in Asians?

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Fair point. This is what I had alluded to in one of my prior posts with this statement - "Muslim/Sikh/Hindu family in UK says "we only want South Asian bride/groom for our kid from our own religion" = conforming to their culture" - but perhaps I was not clear in my subsequent post as well.

My question of ignorance - Interesting to see that Pakistanis also have the vestige of caste type divisions as in India. I'm curious - I see quite a few Pakistanis (here and in Quora) emphasize that they are more Arab/Persian/Central Asian and not South Asian and take offense when someone says their ancestors are Hindu. But clearly you are showing an analogy that conflicts with that prevalent idea among Pakistanis. If Pakistanis are truly more Arab/Persian/Central Asian from a cultural standpoint than Hindu/South Asian, then why this persistent caste division influence? - or is this in itself a contentious/debatable opinion among Pakistanis? - I do not know much about the social dynamics on this and my question is purely from a knowledge standpoint (not intending to ruffle feathers with this one).

If Pakistanis are influenced by India's caste culture then how are we explaining higher rates of interracial marriages among British Indians when compared to British Pakistanis? Sources below - and per one source the rate is 33% higher, per other source the rate is 50%+ higher. If the close mindedness of British Pakistanis is an off shoot of Indian caste system, then how come statistically British Indians are more open minded in marriage/life partner than British Pakistanis?

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...ellusaboutinterethnicrelationships/2014-07-03

https://www.budrich-journals.de/index.php/zff/article/viewFile/3592/3076

Quite simple answer to this. The British Pakistanis who cling to caste are likely to be naturalised immigrants who still carry their homeland caste culture/racism deep within them and thus don't marry out due to racism. Those born in Britain who have grown up with Islamic upbringing will quite often hold onto that upbringing as they see some parts of it superior and thus will want to marry a partner with similar faith and that is not easy to do cross culturally. The British born Pakistanis who have abandoned their faith will have no problem marrying out. You can compare these with British Indians who generally discard Hinduism as inferior more readily than British Pakistanis will with regard to Islam.

 

[mustang]

Quite simple answer to this. The British Pakistanis who cling to caste are likely to be naturalised immigrants who still carry their homeland caste culture/racism deep within them and thus don't marry out due to racism. Those born in Britain who have grown up with Islamic upbringing will quite often hold onto that upbringing as they see some parts of it superior and thus will want to marry a partner with similar faith and that is not easy to do cross culturally. The British born Pakistanis who have abandoned their faith will have no problem marrying out. You can compare these with British Indians who generally discard Hinduism as inferior more readily than British Pakistanis will with regard to Islam.

Interesting. So, how do you view Pakistanis' opinion that they are more Arab/Persian/Central Asian (and whatever else) in terms of ethnic origin and culture, and they have minimal Indian/Hindu backgrounds. If that were the case then why attribute their inherent prejudice to caste system from "another" culture? Or is the former assumption by a section of Pakistanis not accurate?

as an fyi - I have seen equal cases of Indian Americans marrying outside and still holding onto their faith (be it Islam or Hinduism or Sikhism) and also those who have discarded their faith. Holding onto one faith in a stubborn way is not any means of indication that a community is better and this is an open data point - don't wanna open can of worms with a religious digression, but just responding to your left field comment about Hinduism being inferior. No faith is superior or inferior is a sane conclusion a logical person without hatred inside them would have but again, I don't wanna digress with a religious debate (we could be debating here until we die ... I know!).

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Interesting. So, how do you view Pakistanis' opinion that they are more Arab/Persian/Central Asian (and whatever else) in terms of ethnic origin and culture, and they have minimal Indian/Hindu backgrounds. If that were the case then why attribute their inherent prejudice to caste system from "another" culture? Or is the former assumption by a section of Pakistanis not accurate?

as an fyi - I have seen equal cases of Indian Americans marrying outside and still holding onto their faith (be it Islam or Hinduism or Sikhism) and also those who have discarded their faith. Holding onto one faith in a stubborn way is not any means of indication that a community is better and this is an open data point - don't wanna open can of worms with a religious digression, but just responding to your left field comment about Hinduism being inferior. No faith is superior or inferior is a sane conclusion a logical person without hatred inside them would have but again, I don't wanna digress with a religious debate (we could be debating here until we die ... I know!).

Once again you are digressing off from the main topic onto different strands which are probably better suited to separate threads in their own right, and in fact there are already dedicated threads for all of these points. Whether Pakistani claims of Arab Persian descent or Hindu inferiority complex abroad, I don't mind discussing all of these either at length, just not sure this thread is the right place for them. In any case will be happy to do so either here or on the dedicated threads over the weekend.

 

[mustang]

Once again you are digressing off from the main topic onto different strands which are probably better suited to separate threads in their own right, and in fact there are already dedicated threads for all of these points. Whether Pakistani claims of Arab Persian descent or Hindu inferiority complex abroad, I don't mind discussing all of these either at length, just not sure this thread is the right place for them. In any case will be happy to do so either here or on the dedicated threads over the weekend.

Dedicated thread it is! - would be interesting to get many Pakistanis' opinions since I have been curious about that.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

By the way, you asked why British Pakistanis didn't indulge in interracial marriage as readily as Indians, and I gave a very detailed and honest answer in post #81. I think anyone who had an open mind would accept that all those reasons given made perfect sense and would tie in with what people already think, don't really know why you felt dissatisfied with it.

 

[mustang]

By the way, you asked why British Pakistanis didn't indulge in interracial marriage as readily as Indians, and I gave a very detailed and honest answer in post #81. I think anyone who had an open mind would accept that all those reasons given made perfect sense and would tie in with what people already think, don't really know why you felt dissatisfied with it.

Saw your response but I still question that logic (not challenging it mind you, but only questioning it since I do not know enough about the dynamics) and hence my subsequent responses. But my follow up questions seem to digress the thread topic per what you said and hence I held off.

 

[junoon]

Sadly, the religious extremists are actually less racist than the secular Pakistanis. That is one thing I admired about the Islam brigade, they don't believe in borders so while their philosophy is wrong, at least it doesn't discriminate.

They may not believe in borders but they have extreme hatred towards any muslims who do not fit into their narrow interpretation of Islam. This intolerance is not just limited to shia muslims, whom they have always seen as outside the mainstream.
They have killed barelvi sunnis and at times even targeted the Ismailis even though ismailis in Pakistan tend to keep a very low profile

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

They may not believe in borders but they have extreme hatred towards any muslims who do not fit into their narrow interpretation of Islam. This intolerance is not just limited to shia muslims, whom they have always seen as outside the mainstream.
They have killed barelvi sunnis and at times even targeted the Ismailis even though ismailis in Pakistan tend to keep a very low profile

Agree they are bigots, but they are not racists, most religious Muslims aren't in my experience. The non religious ones are much more racist by comparison.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Agree they are bigots, but they are not racists, most religious Muslims aren't in my experience. The non religious ones are much more racist by comparison.

One can be misogynist, homophobic, casteist and a bigot but as long as one is not racist, he is egalitarian and liberal.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

One can be misogynist, homophobic, casteist and a bigot but as long as one is not racist, he is egalitarian and liberal.

Well when you are debating in a thread about racism, then you should make it about racism. If you want to complain about Muslims you could always do a thread about homophobia or misogyny.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Well when you are debating in a thread about racism, then you should make it about racism. If you want to complain about Muslims you could always do a thread about homophobia or misogyny.

You separated bigotry and racism, when it is just another form of bigotry. funny that you took it as a complaint against muslims.

my personal view about racism is that if it stems from a feeling of superiority and others as inferior, it has no place in society, but if it stems from fear of the other, then it needs a sympathetic response.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You separated bigotry and racism, when it is just another form of bigotry. funny that you took it as a complaint against muslims.

my personal view about racism is that if it stems from a feeling of superiority and others as inferior, it has no place in society, but if it stems from fear of the other, then it needs a sympathetic response.

The thread was about south Asians and racism, perhaps it should have been about bigotry in general then.

 

[CricketCartoons]

The thread was about south Asians and racism, perhaps it should have been about bigotry in general then.

indeed one must let go your attempt at separating the virtue of bigotry from racism because it is not mentioned in the thread title.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

indeed one must let go your attempt at separating the virtue of bigotry from racism because it is not mentioned in the thread title.

Well bigotry comes in several forms, that is why it is often categorised to reflect it. Not that different from online forums, we could just have one mega-thread, but to make life easier, they are broken down by sub-forums and topics.

 

[princeuk]

Its funny how some pakistani/indian people use the word **** so casually but I know they dont mean to be racist, its just the way they have ben taught to use the word

 

[light]

We talk about folk being racist towards Asians, but are Asians equally or perhaps even more guilty of racism to others?

I ask this question based on the differences of opinion in the Sarfaraz Ahmed eiposde where some thought what he said was racist, but others said there was nothing wrong with what the Pakistan skipper had stated.

From personal experience: I have seen asians - Indians/Pakistanis/B'deshis and even Lankans be racist towards their own people - if you spoke the same language in a different dialect, usually gets treated badly. If from a different district/village, hate is always there (am generalizing it here - not everyone is the same ofcourse). I have even witnessed couple of older generation uncles would cry of racism towards them by white folks only to turn around and say the most vulgur/racist thing in their language to the white folks so they don't understand it. Racism exists in every culture/country. Its not a white people thing only. If you ask me, the minorities are sometimes more racist at times.

 

[Realromeo]

Racism and Casteism are all same. One thing that unites us as Indians are that we are definitely racist.