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Is Steve Smith heading towards ATG status in Test cricket?

Tekcirc said:
Smith is on course to set huge records, hope he doesn't fade away like Michael Hussey!
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Smith is in a diff league compared to Hussey although I'm still skeptical of Smith's swing playing ability yet also better not to forget the age difference when each became the star player.
 
JaDed said:
Smith is in a diff league compared to Hussey although I'm still skeptical of Smith's swing playing ability yet also better not to forget the age difference when each became the star player.
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Hussey hovered in 75+ avg for the first 2-3 years of his career before dipping to just ok 50.
Smith does have age by his side, but I feel Smith will end up being like Sachin as a captain. His captaincy still is pretty ordinary, that might drag his performance as a player.
 
Yes he can,an incredible player who is on track to be the leading run scorer in Test Cricket.
 
He is in god form. Should make sure he should cash in as much as possible before 33-34 after which the reflexes would slow down and he might be prone to get out. Already my all time favorite batsman.
 
To be fair,the way he is going at the moment won't be surprised but

1)Aussie players don't have the same level of longevity as SC players :misbah3
2)Lot of players have hit purple patches and some for even extend periods of time but the law of averages always catches up :moyo
3)A lot more cricket being played these days so burnout can be faster,adjusting to 3 formats in Smith's case as he is the captain in all 3 formats will be a challenge.

If we weigh in these factors than I doubt it but the way he is going at the moment sure why not,everything points in that direction.
 
Not only Smith, all of the Fab 4 can do it.

Smith will hit a rough patch no doubt; But he will also recover well imo.

Williamson will quietly churn out the runs.

Kohli will get a lot of 150+ scores.

Watch out for Root. His purple patch could be as good as Smith's. He just needs to improve his temperament.
 
Lol at people saying white players don't have as much longevity as subcontinent players

That's only because the white players know when to leave and don't hold their cricket board ransom
 
Slog said:
Lol at people saying white players don't have as much longevity as subcontinent players

That's only because the white players know when to leave and don't hold their cricket board ransom
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Absolutely. Stole the words out of my mouth.
 
Is clearly a cut above every other batsman playing Test cricket right now. Even if he has batted on the flattest of pitches, maintaining a 60+ average over 5000 runs is incredible. Terrific consistency.
 
His eyesight should remain okay for at least next 5 years.. He would have played 100+ test by then and if he manages to have the series like this in SA/ Eng etc. then it's not preposterous to assume that he has a shot at matching/ suppressing Ponting. Of course that's also after assuming he doesn't hang around for too long.

Of course his average will stay higher than the others because he plays so many games in Australia.. Kinda like Ashwin and Jadeja's bowling averages.
 
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Chrish said:
His eyesight should remain okay for at least next 5 years.. He would have played 100+ test by then and if he manages to have the series like this in SA/ Eng etc. then it's not preposterous to assume that he has a shot at matching/ suppressing Ponting. Of course that's also after assuming he doesn't hang around for too long.

Of course his average will stay higher than the others because he plays so many games in Australia.. Kinda like Ashwin and Jadeja's bowling averages.
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You talk as if every Tom dick and Harry averages 70 in Aus

Also his performances have been on a similar level everywhere. His India average must be around 60 too I'm guessing and the England one will get there
 
Slog said:
You talk as if every Tom dick and Harry averages 70 in Aus

Also his performances have been on a similar level everywhere. His India average must be around 60 too I'm guessing and the England one will get there
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Australian players get batting friendly conditions more often than the others.. wonder why would anyone even dispute that ?

Forgot smith for a month moment, look at home vs away records of guys like Warner, Michael Clarke or even Ponting! The difference is remarkable
 
And further Kohli and Williamson averages 62 and 56 in Australia respectively which is well above their career average
 
Chrish said:
And further Kohli and Williamson averages 62 and 56 in Australia respectively which is well above their career average
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Because they are very good players

If smith averages 60 in Aus it's a big achievement regardless of what you say

Also lol at equating Warner with Ponting. On another note Pontings career didn't have flat pattas inAus. This only started late 2013:14
 
Slog said:
Because they are very good players

If smith averages 60 in Aus it's a big achievement regardless of what you say

Also lol at equating Warner with Ponting. On another note Pontings career didn't have flat pattas inAus. This only started late 2013:14
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Australian wickets have remain the same for a long time. Only difference is WCCA turning into road. Australia had McGrath and warne who got opposition out cheaply that doesn't mean wickets weren't roads. Australian team piled up 500/600 regularly at 3-4 RPO just like they do now

None of your claims are supported stastically
 
Chrish said:
Australian wickets have remain the same for a long time. Only difference is WCCA turning into road. Australia had McGrath and warne who got opposition out cheaply that doesn't mean wickets weren't roads. Australian team piled up 500/600 regularly at 3-4 RPO just like they do now

None of your claims are supported stastically
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Australia piled on 500/600 because the batting line up consisted of Ponting, Hayden, Langer, Martin, Clarke , Hussey, Gilchrist and Haddin later
 
Slog said:
Australia piled on 500/600 because the batting line up consisted of Ponting, Hayden, Langer, Martin, Clarke , Hussey, Gilchrist and Haddin later
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That's rather too simple, lazy and quite frankly dull effort of explanation.

Let me break it down by comparing home vs away records of well known (and the ones in your post) Aussie batters. This is what I came up with:

Steve Waugh: 48 vs 56

Gilchrist: 46 vs 50

Matthew Hayden: 58 vs 43

Justin Langer: 49 vs 41

Ricky Ponting: 57 vs 46

Martyn: 47 vs 46

Michael Clarke: 62 vs 39.49

Mike Hussey: 61 vs 41

Haddin: 44 vs 25

David Warner: 59 vs 37

Steve Smith: 69 vs 56

So with the exception of Waugh,Gilly and Martyn every single player averages significantly higher at home than away. Even Smith who has otherwise terrific all-round record at the moment.

Can mean two things: They aren’t equipped to play in alien conditions OR they face significantly easier conditions at home than away. It’s up to the individual to decide what’s what.
 
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Slog said:
You talk as if every Tom dick and Harry averages 70 in Aus

Also his performances have been on a similar level everywhere. His India average must be around 60 too I'm guessing and the England one will get there
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Exactly.

It's not as though Smith's average in relation to his peers is solely down to his performances in Aus.

The table below shows the averages of the "Fab 4" in all test playing nations.

[table="width: 500, class: grid"]
[tr]
[td][/td]
[td]Aus[/td]
[td]Ban[/td]
[td]Eng[/td]
[td]Ind[/td]
[td]NZ[/td]
[td]SA[/td]
[td]SL[/td]
[td]UAE[/td]
[td]WI[/td]
[td]Zim[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Kohli[/td]
[td]62.00[/td]
[td]14.00[/td]
[td]13.40[/td]
[td]55.02[/td]
[td]71.33[/td]
[td]68.00[/td]
[td]38.83[/td]
[td]N/A[/td]
[td]36.33[/td]
[td]N/A[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Root[/td]
[td]27.42[/td]
[td]24.50[/td]
[td]59.11[/td]
[td]53.09[/td]
[td]17.60[/td]
[td]55.14[/td]
[td]N/A[/td]
[td]57.40[/td]
[td]89.50[/td]
[td]N/A[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Smith[/td]
[td]68.65[/td]
[td]N/A[/td]
[td]43.31[/td]
[td]60.00[/td]
[td]131.00[/td]
[td]67.25[/td]
[td]41.16[/td]
[td]43.50[/td]
[td]141.50[/td]
[td]N/A[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Williamson[/td]
[td]55.55[/td]
[td]83.33[/td]
[td]30.87[/td]
[td]35.46[/td]
[td]57.84[/td]
[td]21.16[/td]
[td]40.75[/td]
[td]52.20[/td]
[td]51.33[/td]
[td]97.25[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

- Smith has the highest average in 5 of the 10 nations, and is only shaded by Kohli 0.75 in SA.
- Only Root has a higher average in his home country than Smith does as a tourist there.
- Smith averages at least 40 everywhere he has played - the other three each average less than 40 in at least three different countries (with a few extreme examples from Kohli and Root of sub-20 averages in countries).

Going purely by numbers, at the moment Smith is head and shoulders above his peers. Doesn't matter if you're home or away - Smith's the man you want in your team right now.
 
Chrish said:
That's rather too simple, lazy and quite frankly dull effort of explanation.

Let me break it down by comparing home vs away records of well known (and the ones in your post) Aussie batters. This is what I came up with:

Steve Waugh: 48 vs 56

Gilchrist: 46 vs 50

Matthew Hayden: 58 vs 43

Justin Langer: 49 vs 41

Ricky Ponting: 57 vs 46

Martyn: 47 vs 46

Michael Clarke: 62 vs 39.49

Mike Hussey: 61 vs 41

Haddin: 44 vs 25

David Warner: 59 vs 37

Steve Smith: 69 vs 56

So with the exception of Waugh,Gilly and Martyn every single player averages significantly higher at home than away. Even Smith who has otherwise terrific all-round record at the moment.

Can mean two things: They aren’t equipped to play in alien conditions OR they face significantly easier conditions at home than away. It’s up to the individual to decide what’s what.
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Or it could be the simple fact that throughout history most batsmen tend to do better in their home conditions. And if youre averaging 45+ away it can hardly be put down as not equipped to play in alient conditions or facing easier conditions at home.

In any case your original statement was:
Of course his average will stay higher than the others because he plays so many games in Australia.
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Basically alluding that his average will stay higher than peers because he plays home games in Australia.The simple fact is and is evidenced by the numbers you shared, Smith smacks everyone's record home and away so its not really a debate

And if you look at [MENTION=137520]delpiero10[/MENTION]'s post its clear that he has exhibited greater performances than everyone else currentl in almost all conditions

Your argument is weak
 
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Slog said:
Or it could be the simple fact that throughout history most batsmen tend to do better in their home conditions. And if youre averaging 45+ away it can hardly be put down as not equipped to play in alient conditions or facing easier conditions at home.

In any case your original statement was:


Basically alluding that his average will stay higher than peers because he plays home games in Australia.The simple fact is and is evidenced by the numbers you shared, Smith smacks everyone's record home and away so its not really a debate

And if you look at [MENTION=137520]delpiero10[/MENTION]'s post its clear that he has exhibited greater performances than everyone else currentl in almost all conditions

Your argument is weak
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I have never denied that he is no 1 at the moment. But his overall average will always be inflated in comparison to his peers from other teams. That's the fact and not an opinion
 
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He is a brilliant batsman, but his performance this series wasn't otherworldly like some are making it out to be. He scored a century with 6 chances on the rank turner in Pune and failed on a difficult Bangalore pitch Then scored 2 centuries on 2 flat pitches.

He failed in the second innings of every match too.
 
Performance like this fast-forwards a player on a track of being ATG
 
Indian fans have no right to play down the achievements of Smith, he's hammered you home and away for fun LOL.

The flat pitch thing is so boring. Smith isn't like Warner who scores only on flat tracks. Even on some flat tracks Warner did nothing significant.
 
Hasan123 said:
Indian fans have no right to play down the achievements of Smith, he's hammered you home and away for fun LOL.

The flat pitch thing is so boring. Smith isn't like Warner who scores only on flat tracks. Even on some flat tracks Warner did nothing significant.
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Smith may have scored on other pitches outside India. But this series, he played well and got a century on a rank turner, but gave 6 chances. The onus is of course on India to take those chances, but that wasn't a great innings because of that. Bangalore was another tough pitch because of the uneven bounce, and he failed in both innings. In the 3rd and 4th tests with flat pitches, he got centuries in the first innings and failed in the second innings.
 
Sachin136 said:
Smith may have scored on other pitches outside India. But this series, he played well and got a century on a rank turner, but gave 6 chances. The onus is of course on India to take those chances, but that wasn't a great innings because of that. Bangalore was another tough pitch because of the uneven bounce, and he failed in both innings. In the 3rd and 4th tests with flat pitches, he got centuries in the first innings and failed in the second innings.
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Yet he was still the top scorer in this series.
 
Hasan123 said:
Indian fans have no right to play down the achievements of Smith, he's hammered you home and away for fun LOL.

The flat pitch thing is so boring. Smith isn't like Warner who scores only on flat tracks. Even on some flat tracks Warner did nothing significant.
Click to expand...

While I agree with what you say, your logic for it seems quite poor. It is like saying Pakistanis can't play down Sehwag's career because he thrashed the daylight out of you guys everywhere.

Valid criticism irrespective of where it comes from should always be welcome.
 
Zak_Fan said:
While I agree with what you say, your logic for it seems quite poor. It is like saying Pakistanis can't play down Sehwag's career because he thrashed the daylight out of you guys everywhere.

Valid criticism irrespective of where it comes from should always be welcome.
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Smith has 40 plus average everywhere and has scored runs in most conditions

Sehwag has struggled out of his comfort zone. So criticism for him is valid.
 
Zak_Fan said:
While I agree with what you say, your logic for it seems quite poor. It is like saying Pakistanis can't play down Sehwag's career because he thrashed the daylight out of you guys everywhere.

Valid criticism irrespective of where it comes from should always be welcome.
Click to expand...


Also Pakistan fans don't play down his innings vs us. We are more critical for his performances outside of his comfort zone.
 
Smith has played very well this series in Indian conditions and his average is phenomenal at 61. He'll heading towards being an ATG, in a few years we'll see if he can maintain his consistent performances.
 
Chrish said:
Australian wickets have remain the same for a long time. Only difference is WCCA turning into road. Australia had McGrath and warne who got opposition out cheaply that doesn't mean wickets weren't roads. Australian team piled up 500/600 regularly at 3-4 RPO just like they do now

None of your claims are supported stastically
Click to expand...

MCG and Brisbane weren't roads either. Adelaide and Sydney used to be flattish ones with some assistance to spinners in the latter part of the match.

Australians generally enjoy playing bounce and pace and hence they have comparatively better home average than away ones.
 
Sachin136 said:
He is a brilliant batsman, but his performance this series wasn't otherworldly like some are making it out to be. He scored a century with 6 chances on the rank turner in Pune and failed on a difficult Bangalore pitch Then scored 2 centuries on 2 flat pitches.

He failed in the second innings of every match too.
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Very dull argument to be fair.
 
amazing stats how has he done in SA and England? Can someone post his stats there? If he has done great there would easily be considered best test bat of his generation.
 
Already there. He is among the top 10 greatest test bat of all time.

Already 22 hundreds in 59 tests!

KP 23 hundreds in 106 tests
Amla 28 in 109 tests
Cook 31 in 150 tests
AB 21 in 106 tests
Clarke 28 in 115 tests
 
big_gamer007 said:
amazing stats how has he done in SA and England? Can someone post his stats there? If he has done great there would easily be considered best test bat of his generation.
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12 tests in England for 953 at 43 with 3 centuries including a double century. Bare in mind that this includes his first two tests when he was at number 8 and his first full series back in the team as a youngster in 2013 (345 runs at 38.5 with one century in a team that didn't win a test)

In South Africa he averages 67 but only three tests.
 
It's amazing to see how Azhar Ali is trailing the fab 4 so closely.

A few good seasons and he would be statistically there too but we all know that this isn't happening.

That said, Kohli will probably and eventually outrun all the other batsmen of his era including Smith.
 
He has to really separate himself from the pack if he wants be the Test ATG representative from this batting friendly era, which to be fair to him he has done till now.. in a big way.
 
ATG ATG ATG.

He has like 5700 runs at an average of over 60.

If we keep 8K - 10K with an high average, impact performances & away performances as the mark for ATG, he will easily get there.

Just a matter of time.

He has to bat like a tailender from on for years to not finish as ATG.

He deserves to finish as an elite level ATG. I hope he gets there.

Effectiveness and impact rolled into one.
 
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Convict said:
12 tests in England for 953 at 43 with 3 centuries including a double century. Bare in mind that this includes his first two tests when he was at number 8 and his first full series back in the team as a youngster in 2013 (345 runs at 38.5 with one century in a team that didn't win a test)

In South Africa he averages 67 but only three tests.
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Damn that’s very impressive if he continues to play like this he may very well retire as GOAT of test cricket.. Depends how long he can carry on considering he still got 7-8 years of cricket left in him he has the best chance of being GOAT in tests..
 
Virat will never come close to smith in tests. He will be exposed on away tours. And all smith vs kohli talks will be settled until kohli bashs sl againat home
 
Could be the 2nd best test batsman of all time at this rate. After bradman of course.
 
Smudger said:
Virat will never come close to smith in tests. He will be exposed on away tours. And all smith vs kohli talks will be settled until kohli bashs sl againat home
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lol why does every Smith thread on PP need to become a Kohli bashing one. The latter still has an average of above 60 in both Australia and SA.
 
Averaging 50+ makes you an ATG.

Smith is going for something far far higher.
 
Already an ATG in my opinion.

If he ends up with an avg of 70+ in tests, he will be a serious threat to Bradman as GOAT.
 
Looks like he will finish amongst the likes of Bradman, Tendulkar, Graeme Pollock and Viv Richards as one of the greatest batsmen of all time. He could even be the best TEST batsman ever apart from Bradman. (Considering all formats - Tendulkar’s overall performance level from such a young age, including in LOI cricket, will always set him aside from most.)
 
His peak has been extraordinary.

This is about as close as one can get to Don Bradman in the modern era.
 
He is an ATG in Test. If JB Hobbs is an ATG, then this guy has to be one (JB played 50+ Tests in 23 years, SS in 5 years).

Really impressive performance - question is can he make AT AUS Test XI? I guess, still it's border line (both ways)

Trumper
2nd Opener (my choice Gilly for better balance)
DGB
Greg
Panta
AB/Smith
Miller
RR Lindwall
Warne
.
DK Lillee

It's Border line indeed.
 
Ab Fan said:
Yeah..Going allright..

But he doesn't seem to have ceiling of Ponting level.

Also struggles on bowling friendly conditions.

Does well when everyone does but not so much when others fail.

199 vs WI was the only exception and WI isn't that real deal.
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What about his test century in first ashes test?
 
This guy makes a mockery of those who say technique is crucial.

He has improved so much and is mentally so strong.

Not easy on the eye for the purists but puts a huge price on his wicket.
 
Alright, this might be an unpopular view, but what exactly qualifies him being called an ATG with basically 4 good years of batting? I mean he certainly has the potential, but seriously, "an ATG already".......... To be honest, I am sceptical of Smith's performance in Asia. He has played well in India, but that's about it. He averages about 38.5 and has 1 hundred in all other (excluding India) SC countries combined and averages 29 odd against Bangladesh(albeit only 4 innings). I believe he can very much end up as an "elite ATG" but don't just make such widespread statements based off of so less evidence. I remember some similar hype surrounding Root in the 2015-2016 phase, people rendering him invincible. In my opinion, Smith still needs to prove himself on swinging tracks and against better bowling line ups (obviously no fault of his own) to be coined the Greatest of All Time or an All Time Great. People hit purple patches, but Smith is holding onto his. Will be very interesting to see where he ends up. Good Luck to him!
 
Saj said:
This guy makes a mockery of those who say technique is crucial.

He has improved so much and is mentally so strong.

Not easy on the eye for the purists but puts a huge price on his wicket.
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Technique isn't crucial? :broad. It is important regardless of the format. I think you meant "who say an orthodox* technique is crucial".
 
He is an ATG already in my book. Tremendous performer. A better and more aggressive version of Chanderpaul. He has cashed in on his amazing form enough that even if he loses form, he should end up with an average of like 54-55 which is ATG territory.
 
leatherface58 said:
He is an ATG already in my book. Tremendous performer. A better and more aggressive version of Chanderpaul. He has cashed in on his amazing form enough that even if he loses form, he should end up with an average of like 54-55 which is ATG territory.
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Depends on what you class as ATG. Would you class Younis Khan as an ATG? I do. But many others don't. That's why I felt that maybe ATG is a very exclusive club.
 
OmarKhan99 said:
Depends on what you class as ATG. Would you class Younis Khan as an ATG? I do. But many others don't. That's why I felt that maybe ATG is a very exclusive club.
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YK is definitely a Test ATG. Pakistan are feeling the pinch of losing him and Misbah and they will have some transition time before they return to being a solid batting side. Smith is a Test ATG and also a very good ODI player. YK struggled in ODI which probably results in some folks hesitating to call him an ATG.
 
He has put himself in the frame. But will have to continue to perform. Guys like Hussey & Cook looked like becoming ATG's too at one stage, but fell away, so will just be remembered as excellent word class players or national greats.

If Smith can maintain an average of 55/60+ in an era when his contemporaries avg 50 then yes, he'll be up in that category. Assuming he continues to score all around the world & contribute to the odd away win/away series win at least.
 
wih the technique that Smith has, he needs great hand eye coordination to score runs.

I am not sure if Smith can keep scoring buckets of runs when he crosses 32 or 33. The reflexes slowly diminish after that.

I feel that though Smith’s peak is insane. Kohli will have longevity barring injuries to both players.
 
Already an ATG in Tests based on the number match innings knocks he's played in his relatively short Test career so far.
 
OmarKhan99 said:
Technique isn't crucial? :broad. It is important regardless of the format. I think you meant "who say an orthodox* technique is crucial".
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It's effective, but I can't say I sit down and watch him. I usually tune out when he's batting tbh. I actually enjoyed Mitch Marsh's batting more.
 
Fantastic player. He is averaging 75 in last 4 years.

An avg close to 70 for three more years and I will put him or it can be argued that he is at par with any batsmen bar Bradman in tests format.

Ponting averages 67 in his 7 year test peak phase.
 
He is already ATG. Even if he averages 40 for the next 40-50 tests he will end with a 50+ average. His peak has been astonishing.
 
I am not sure if he should be called ATG yet. However he can definitely become GOAT if he can continue like this for 5 years more (doesn't have to be consecutive, but 9 years of 70+ average should be enough for GOAT)
 
Aman said:
It's effective, but I can't say I sit down and watch him. I usually tune out when he's batting tbh. I actually enjoyed Mitch Marsh's batting more.
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Both the Marsh brothers are very attractive batsmen when playing well.
 
His Test match batting average is 62 which is insanely good. Means that even if he dips in the twilight of his career he will finish with an average of 55+. If he can finish above 60 then he would surely be the post-Bradman GOAT - the only other players with this approximate number are Voges (inflated) and Graeme Pollock (a great, but only played 20-odd Tests).
 
Next tour to South Africa will be very important vs Steyn, Rabada, Morkel and Philander.
 
Aman said:
It's effective, but I can't say I sit down and watch him. I usually tune out when he's batting tbh. I actually enjoyed Mitch Marsh's batting more.
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I agree to an extent. Aesthetics are important to be pleasing on the eye. Btw, what I wrote was not regarding Smith's technique or lack of it. I was just pointing a misinterpretation of the word "technique" and it's widespread incorrect interchangeable "orthodox technique". Smith has an excellent technique (albeit struggles a bit in swinging conditions) but just not an orthodox one.
 
Very good batsmen but with only 22 tons and being poor against swing bowling , he's not even in the top 20 of all time great batsmen and yet we have people on here saying he is second to Bradman lol.
 
KingKhanWC said:
Very good batsmen but with only 22 tons and being poor against swing bowling , he's not even in the top 20 of all time great batsmen and yet we have people on here saying he is second to Bradman lol.
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Statistically, he IS second to Bradman. Objectively, this can be argued. Statistics are only one part of the argument and I get that, but his statistics are scarily good.
 
James said:
Statistically, he IS second to Bradman. Objectively, this can be argued. Statistics are only one part of the argument and I get that, but his statistics are scarily good.
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If he plays the amount of test matches Sachin played against all nations in so many conditions, do you really beleive he will maintain anything near this average? If Smith plays another 50 tests combined in Asia and England he will end his career with a 50 average if he plays well.

Sure he can play fast bowling on quick bouncy tracks or play long innings on slow flat tracks but he is terrible against the moving ball and not the best against spin either.

Cricket is the one sport where stats can mean little, context can mean everything, as you know.
 
I think Smith will end his career on par with Jacques Kallis, averaging 57-58 from 130 tests or more. His record is going to be mind-boggling but I doubt anyone outside Australia would remember him with any kind of admiration. He is effective in the same mold as Allan Border and Steve Waugh, without the captivating aura of personality. He will need to dig in on difficult wickets abroad and win test series in England and India before he reaches anywhere near the level of esteem that Border and Waugh are held by fans within the game.
 
KingKhanWC said:
Very good batsmen but with only 22 tons and being poor against swing bowling , he's not even in the top 20 of all time great batsmen and yet we have people on here saying he is second to Bradman lol.
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His peak is second to Bradman.

Has a ridiculous average of 75.91 in his last 40 Tests.
 
Last Monetarist said:
I think Smith will end his career on par with Jacques Kallis, averaging 57-58 from 130 tests or more. His record is going to be mind-boggling but I doubt anyone outside Australia would remember him with any kind of admiration. He is effective in the same mold as Allan Border and Steve Waugh, without the captivating aura of personality. He will need to dig in on difficult wickets abroad and win test series in England and India before he reaches anywhere near the level of esteem that Border and Waugh are held by fans within the game.
Click to expand...

Dont think Waugh or Border won series in India did they?.
 
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