Is Steve Smith the best Test batter since Don Bradman?

[Robert]

Donnie will always be Donnie.

For Smith to be regarded GSD hr must crush an ATG spinner or fast bowler.

There isn't a Lillee or Hadlee or Marshall or Steyn or Warne or Mural to bowl at him.

It's difficult to compare players across eras because so much has changed. How would Bradman go on the homogenous flat decks of today, getting the ball through massively improved outfielding? How would Smith do on uncovered wickets with little armour on? We will never know.

 

[Bhaijaan]

There isn't a Lillee or Hadlee or Marshall or Steyn or Warne or Mural to bowl at him.

It's difficult to compare players across eras because so much has changed. How would Bradman go on the homogenous flat decks of today, getting the ball through massively improved outfielding? How would Smith do on uncovered wickets with little armour on? We will never know.

Donnie Brad would have few things going for him today bro but he will be up against on average much faster and manlier bowlers. In Ronnie's era only Harold Larwood could bowl 100 miles stuff towards his rib cage. Also reverse swing still wasn't a thing in Donnie's times. We all know how many toes and dreams were crushed by Vikky The Jatt during 1990s mostly Poms bro.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Public disclaimer -

I ain't no hater. Always a lover 100 percent.

Never forget

Smith is a classy batsman and best of his era which is all that matters bro.

 

[Robert]

Donnie Brad would have few things going for him today bro but he will be up against on average much faster and manlier bowlers. In Ronnie's era only Harold Larwood could bowl 100 miles stuff towards his rib cage. Also reverse swing still wasn't a thing in Donnie's times. We all know how many toes and dreams were crushed by Vikky The Jatt during 1990s mostly Poms bro.

Manlier? I bet the generation who got fought WW2 might disagree!

Lord Learie Constantine said the Windies knew how to bowl reverse swing in the 1930s, but it because a lost art before Sarfraz rediscovered it forty years later. So it is conceivable that Bradman could have faced it. The only thing that stopped him was the sticky dog, and there have been no stickies in half a century.

 

[tyron_woodley]

stokes ATG all rounder.

 

[gazza619]

Came across this clip online. My days, Smith was thrown into the deep end by Cricket Australia at such a young age with such minimal first class experience as he made his test debut against Pakistan. Can we not do the same for some of our young guns as well? I say let them nurture their art at the international arena.

 

[ElRaja]

smith is extremely mentally tough, hes known to be ocd, and i would suggest theres an argument to be made that he might be borderline autistic (just based on accounts of his intensity in practise)s.

his concentration levels are focused and narrow, is he the best batsmen since brandman, in terms of technical ability i dont think so, his odi stats show that in terms of the best players in the world his stroke play is limited, but in terms of consistent innings building its hard to argue against it, and innings building is such a massive part of batsmanship in tests.

i dont think he'll be able to maintain it tho, his batting style is too mentally intense, would be surprised if he ended his career with a 60+ average, but if he does, with 10k+ runs then i think he would pbly be considered the second best test batsmen.

 

[SL_Fan]

Still early days but he’s on the right track.

Red line represents 900 rating points

 

[SL_Fan]

In comparison

Red line represents 800 rating points and the Blue line 900 rating points

 

[therealAB]

He definitely has the 2nd greatest peak of all time. We will wait and see whether he can continue this form and become the best since Bradman.

For me, an average of 58 with 10,000+ runs would do it, given that this is a bowling era and he has traditionally been in a very weak Aus side

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

He definitely has the 2nd greatest peak of all time. We will wait and see whether he can continue this form and become the best since Bradman.

For me, an average of 58 with 10,000+ runs would do it, given that this is a bowling era and he has traditionally been in a very weak Aus side

True, this indeed is a bowling era some old posters will make you believe that pitches are flat these days but over the last three - four years i have seen all kind of pitches.
Rank turners in ind, ban to uneven bounce in wanderers, perth to seaming conditions at lords, nz, antigua, basin reserve.
If smith retires with an average near 60 he will be second to bradman.
I will never believe that people like barry richards, viv richards who avgd in low 50s even in first class cricket are better than smith.

 

[Majid Khan]

Best test batsman since Bradman? Is this even worthy of a debate , I thought it was common knowledge that Hafeez and Sobers were jointly 2nd best, Steve Smith comes in 3rd position at best.

 

[Kashur_Kalkharab]

If he ends his career with 3000 test runs in Asia with average above 55 and maintains overall average above 55,he surely is the greatest.

 

[Smudger]

If he ends his career with 3000 test runs in Asia with average above 55 and maintains overall average above 55,he surely is the greatest.

He is bound to be a great. No buddy applies such filters to judge greatness beside he already excelled in asia supremely

 

[tyron_woodley]

the next 2 series' vs india at home and away will decide his status as the undisputed GOAT.

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">What better way to celebrate the 33rd birthday of Steven Peter Devereux Smith than to re-visit his brilliant century against India at the 2015 <a href="https://twitter.com/cricketworldcup?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@CricketWorldCup</a>.</p>— ICC (@ICC) <a href="https://twitter.com/ICC/status/1532177252539977729?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 2, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">On Steve Smith's 33rd birthday, enjoy six minutes of his finest fielding efforts! <a href="https://t.co/gtEcYERy9N">pic.twitter.com/gtEcYERy9N</a></p>— cricket.com.au (@cricketcomau) <a href="https://twitter.com/cricketcomau/status/1532277589003362305?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 2, 2022</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[YorkerKing]

Australia star batter Steve Smith disclosed how he played the last three Ashes Tests with an injured left wrist.

Smith is expected to be fit for Australia's ICC Men's Cricket World Cup 2023 campaign in India in October-November.

The side will play a three-game ODI series against the hosts before featuring in the Cricket World Cup 2023. The five-time champions will hope that their star batter, who has 834 runs at an average of 46.33 in the event, is at his very best in India.

Smith's importance lies beyond the bat, as was highlighted by former Australia opener Matthew Hayden. Australia's ODI captain Pat Cummins is barely one year into the job, and Smith's presence could help his side on the field.

"We've always had a very settled Australian captain with vast experience when you think back to the World Cups - Allan Border's World Cup-winning effort here in India (1987 World Cup), lots of experience. It was a legacy captaincy, and you could go right down through the ages: Ricky Ponting, Michael Clarke were all World Cup winners, and (with) vast experience," Hayden said while speaking at an event in Mumbai.

"It's got to help, there's no doubt about it. But between the other characters like Steve Smith - you've seen how visible he is when Pat's got the ball in his hand, he's flapping around as he busily does anyway. But he has got a good wingman in Steve Smith as well, again with lots of experience. So, I'm not saying it's a team captaincy, but I think it's a solution that Australia's got covered."

However, Smith will miss the upcoming limited-overs tour of South Africa starting on August 30. A build-up to the global mega event, Australia's visit to Africa comprises of three T20Is and five ODIs.

Steve Smith: Australia's 'Mr Fix-it' | T20 World Cup
Smith was a part of Australia’s T20I squad and was expecting to open the innings after a good showing in the Big Bash League.

“It's unfortunate, I wanted to go and open the batting in the T20s,” Smith expressed his disappointment while speaking to AAP. “Anyone would want to open in T20 cricket. It was cool to be able to show what I could do in the Big Bash. Hopefully I can replicate that internationally as well.”

Smith was the Player of the Match in the Lord's Test, for his brilliant 110 in the first innings which helped Australia secure a 43-run win despite a major onslaught by England skipper Ben Stokes on the final day.

Smith sustained tendon damage in his left wrist while fielding in the deep on the final day.

The Australia player revealed the extent of his injury and how he tried to overcome it.

“I must have just landed awkwardly. It was quite painful at Headingley (where the third Ashes Test was played). Even in the lead-in, I didn't hit that much in the nets,” Smith said.

“I was just trying to find a way to hold the bat that wasn't painful. After that, some shots I played, cross-bat and back-foot punching I was sore. Trying to decelerate the bat was hard, or defending sometimes was sore. But it wasn't awful.”

Century! Another milestone for Steve Smith | WTC23 Final
Steve Smith notches up his 31st Test century early on Day 2 against India in the ICC World Test Championship Final 2023.
Smith’s performance dipped in the third and fourth Tests, where he merely added 82 runs in four innings. However, the veteran returned to good form in the final game at The Oval where he scored 71 and 54 respectively.

“Maybe it did, I’m not sure,” Smith discussed the impact of injury on his form. “I was a bit disappointed with my batting. I got a few starts but just didn't kick on to get a big score.

“I felt really good in the first innings at The Oval, I probably hit the trigger a bit early. But until that point I didn't feel as if I was going to get out. Even in the second innings I felt good there. But I just didn't capitalise on a few starts as much as I would have liked.”

 

[Ab Fan]

Yes.

Smith, Lara, Viv, Tendulkar and Sobers pretty much even steven.

Then there is Gavaskar, Chappell and Ponting. And then the rest.

 

[Mercurial]

Steve Smith is like that debate you have with yourself at 2 AM – "Is he better than Tendulkar? Oh, and what about Lara? Wait, did I leave the oven on?" It's a batting battle royale inside your head, especially for players you've seen in action!

 

[sweep_shot]

He is not.

Stats are not everything. Modern day stats are inflated anyway.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Smithy boy showing why you need a test GOAT in the ODI team.

For matches like these

 

[Cricket Warrior]

He is a bit overrated specially in ODIs.

His dismissal tonight against SA validates my statement above.

 

[160KPH]

He’s definitely the best Test batsmen of the modern era - he dominated everywhere. And he’s not the best ODI batsmen, or even in the best ODI form right now, but he has a history of playing incredibly important and clutch knocks.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Smith is nowhere near the Odi greats. He failed and should only be focusing on the test matches from now on. He is an ATG test batter undoubtedly.

 

[Ab Fan]

Smith's knock in 2015 semis wasn't anything special.

First inning, flat belter, okayish attack, home ground.

You give the same to a lot of South African batsman and they will also score hundred on that pitch.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Former Australia captain Michael Clarke, while speaking on a sports channel talk show, he said:

“It might be the challenge that he is looking for. He [Steve Smith] doesn’t want to wait. He doesn’t want to wait for a Khawaja or a Warner or a Marnus to make a double hundred, he wants to make a double hundred. If he opens, he will be the best opener within 12 months. Don’t be surprised if he breaks Brian Lara’s 400 record because he’s that good and now he’s got the whole day to bat."

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Smith is on a sharp decline now he has hardly a year left in international cricket after that I dont see him playing any form of International cricket

 

[FearlessRoar]

Steve Smith calls out fast bowling rule change for Test cricket

Steve Smith has called for “some slight rule changes” when it comes to the approach of fast bowlers in Test cricket.

The first of two Test matches against New Zealand gets underway in Wellington on Thursday, when Smith will continue opening the batting for Australia.

The 34-year-old is coming off an unbeaten 91 in an encouraging innings last time out against the West Indies, which ended in defeat for the Aussies.

Short-pitched bowling has been a talking point dating back to last year’s Ashes series, with some quick bowlers regularly using the tactic on lifeless decks, particularly down the leg side.

Smith feels umpires could be handed increased power to call wides over the tactic, which leaves batters with very few options to score, as reported by The Sydney Morning Herald.

It has been likened to the infamous “bodyline” tactics used against Don Bradman’s Australian outfit back in 1932-33.

“I think there could be some slight rule changes in terms of balls going down the leg side when you set that field,” Smith said.

“You really can’t hit the ball anywhere in front of the wicket and I feel like it is almost like when a (left-arm) spinner comes over the wicket and they get the warning down the leg side and then they start getting wided.

“If you’re bowling balls consistently in that area down leg, it should be a similar ruling to the spinner if that makes sense.

“Basically bowl one or two, then get a warning and then get wides called.

“To have those catchers there in position, it can be challenging for sure.

“The only thing I’d like to see is if you get too much down leg, you can’t really score anywhere else, and all the fielders are there. That would be the only change I wouldn’t mind seeing.”

The call comes in the wake of Neil Wagner’s imminent retirement from the Kiwi side.

Wagner dismissed Smith four times in five innings in the 2019/20 series in Australia using effective short-pitched bowling.

While Smith has stopped well short of suggestions Wagner had his measure, the 107-Test veteran paid tribute to the skills of the departing 37-year-old.

“Ultimately it is a good skill what Neil’s been able to do,” Smith said.

"The way he can get the ball between throat and chest height consistently, not bowl his two (allowed bouncers) for the over and just carry on doing it.

“It’s a good skill and it can be challenging, particularly for guys that are pullers of the ball.”

https://www.news.com.au/sport/cricket/steve-smith-calls-out-fast-bowling-rule-change-for-test-cricket/news-story/f1e2c7aa0995ceaaabd7cdd744446f0f

 

[FearlessRoar]

Smith joins the flock of ducks

There are an awful lot of names for a group of ducks.

Steve Smith pushed at a wide ball outside the off stump, getting an inside edge onto the base of his leg stump, falling for a three-ball duck against New Zealand in the second innings of the 1st Test and giving Tim Southee his first wicket in the match.

He joined Kane Williamson, Rachin Ravindra and Scott Kuggeleijn in the team of ducks, and added another question mark about his position at the top of the order.

 

[FearlessRoar]

19 innings without a Test ton

First time with a sub 800 rating since 2014

Joe Root takes his spot at 2nd in the latest ICC rankings

Has taking the opening spot as an opening batter affected his form?

 

[Hitman]

Brian Lara, Sachin Tendulkar, Kumar Sangakkara reached 10,000 Test runs in exactly 195 innings each.

Ricky Ponting reached 10,000 Test runs in 196 innings.

Steve Smith has so far played 195 innings and has scored 9685 Test runs.


Link: https://www.espncricinfo.com/records/fastest-to-10000-runs-283191

 

[Mamoon]

Brian Lara, Sachin Tendulkar, Kumar Sangakkara reached 10,000 Test runs in exactly 195 innings each.

Ricky Ponting reached 10,000 Test runs in 196 innings.

Steve Smith has so far played 195 innings and has scored 9685 Test runs.


Link: https://www.espncricinfo.com/records/fastest-to-10000-runs-283191

Smith started his career as a spin bowling all-rounder so this isn’t a fair comparison.

2014-2019 Smith is the best Test batsman of the last 50 years.

6,000+ runs, 24 centuries in 56 Tests at an average of 72. Simply incredible.

 

[mominsaigol]

Smith started his career as a spin bowling all-rounder so this isn’t a fair comparison.

2014-2019 Smith is the best Test batsman of the last 50 years.

6,000+ runs, 24 centuries in 56 Tests at an average of 72. Simply incredible.

2014-2019 Smith is the best Test batsman of the last 50 years.

This I 100% agree with. Really good player at his peak. Also incljde 2020 as well. 2014-2020.

 

[Hitman]

Smith started his career as a spin bowling all-rounder so this isn’t a fair comparison.

2014-2019 Smith is the best Test batsman of the last 50 years.

6,000+ runs, 24 centuries in 56 Tests at an average of 72. Simply incredible.

Garry Sobers started his career primarily as a bowler and ended up becoming in a lot of former cricketer's and cricket pundit's eyes the greatest Test batsman since Bradman. Smith is not the only one to have accomplished such a feat.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Brian Lara, Sachin Tendulkar, Kumar Sangakkara reached 10,000 Test runs in exactly 195 innings each.

Ricky Ponting reached 10,000 Test runs in 196 innings.

Steve Smith has so far played 195 innings and has scored 9685 Test runs.


Link: https://www.espncricinfo.com/records/fastest-to-10000-runs-283191

Shame the so called god (fraud) of cricket once again couldn't break a record before his peers.

Slap bang the exact same as players he is allegedly miles ahead of.

 

[mominsaigol]

LOL, if only random nobodies from Pakistan had the authority to decide a player’s legacy, their beloved Imran Khan would have had a bigger legacy than the greatest cricketer of all time, Sir Garfield Sobers. Also, a certain 29 averaging Pakistani batsman against the West Indies in the 70’s, 80’s and the 90’s would have started replacing Tendulkar in 99.9% of all All Time XI compiled by former cricketers, cricket pundits and other reputable sources.

LOL, if only random nobodies from Pakistan had the authority to decide a player’s legacy, their beloved Imran Khan would have had a bigger legacy than the greatest cricketer of all time, Sir Garfield Sobers.

This i also agree with. Most pakistani posters overhype their players way too much. like treating chacha as the 2nd coming of Bevan.

 

[mominsaigol]

LOL, if only random nobodies from Pakistan had the authority to decide a player’s legacy, their beloved Imran Khan would have had a bigger legacy than the greatest cricketer of all time, Sir Garfield Sobers.

This i also agree with. Most pakistani posters overhype their players way too much.like treating chacha as the 2nd coming of Bevan.

@Hitman

Top 10 best test batsmen (Based of Achievements), This is based of achievements only, Where they rank in skill is another matter.

1) Don Bradman
2) Garfield Sobers
3) Jack Hobbs
4) Sachin Tendulkar
5) Viv Richards
6) Steve Smith
7) Lara
8) Kallis
9) Sunny
10) Sanga

Again this is based of achievements factoring in time periods as well.

 

[sweep_shot]

Kallis is better than Smith in Test format.

Kallis has 13,000+ Test runs, an average of 55+, and 45 Test centuries.

Smith has around 9700 Test runs, an average of around 57, and 32 Test centuries.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Kallis is better than Smith in Test format.

Kallis has 13,000+ Test runs, an average of 55+, and 45 Test centuries.

Smith has around 9700 Test runs, an average of around 57, and 32 Test centuries.

Not really, Kallis was considered below the likes of Ponting who in turn was a level below Lara, Tendulkar.

For me Kallis is around Punter level which makes him inferior to Smith who belongs in the class of Lara, Sachin.

 

[sweep_shot]

Not really, Kallis was considered below the likes of Ponting who in turn was a level below Lara, Tendulkar.

For me Kallis is around Punter level which makes him inferior to Smith who belongs in the class of Lara, Sachin.

Have you seen peak Kallis live or are you writing this based on what you saw on Cricinfo?

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Have you seen peak Kallis live or are you writing this based on what you saw on Cricinfo?

I have seen Kallis live, I haven’t seen Bradman though and I still call him the GOAT.

 

[Ab Fan]

Smith has not been the same post the COVID lockdown. He won’t make it to my 2020s test XI.

Actually in 2018 Sandpaper Test series only, I watched two of the best batsman in the game, AB de Villiers and Steve Smith playing for their respective team and the gulf in class of batting between the two was quite visible. The way ABD took apart the reverse swinging Mitchell Starc and Pat Cummins in first two test was indeed a sight to behold and it was the calibre of batting that I never saw from Steve Smith against high pace.

After the two tests, Australians got caught for cheating and post that, the motivation just wasn’t there among the two camps. South Africa defecated Australia with utmost ease in that series. Post that, Australia had a stronger hold but that is only because they were against a declining South African side.

 

[Devadwal]

Smith is a cheater and banned for a year .he will always remembered for this whatever maybe his record . period

 

[sweep_shot]

I have seen Kallis live, I haven’t seen Bradman though and I still call him the GOAT.

13000 > 9700.

45 > 32.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Smith has definitely climbed the tree to be on the top but his rise has stopped a bit. He is not the same as he was a couple of years ago. He is still one hell of a test batter.

In other formats, he is a nobody.

 

[Hitman]

@Hitman

Top 10 best test batsmen (Based of Achievements), This is based of achievements only, Where they rank in skill is another matter.

1) Don Bradman
2) Garfield Sobers
3) Jack Hobbs
4) Sachin Tendulkar
5) Viv Richards
6) Steve Smith
7) Lara
8) Kallis
9) Sunny
10) Sanga

Again this is based of achievements factoring in time periods as well.

Garry Sobers, in my opinion, remains the greatest Test batsman of the post war era.

 

[mominsaigol]

Smith is a cheater and banned for a year .he will always remembered for this whatever maybe his record . period

Sachin is also a cheater

 

[Ab Fan]

No Australian batter in modern era is fit enough to tie the shoelaces of the legendary Sachin Tendulkar.

Smith’s combined runs tally( Test+ ODIs+ T20) is half of Sachin’s combined runs tally even though he is at verge of his career end and that tells you how much behind he is to the legendary Sachin Tendulkar in the reckoning.

In terms of class of batting, AB de Villiers alone is in a different class to Smith as visible by their performance in the Sandpaper series where Starc and Cummins used illegal tricks to counter SA batting but had no answers to ABD’s calibre of batsmanship vs high pace.

Overall, Sachin, Viv, Kohli, Ponting and Lara remains the five best batters to play the game since Don Bradman.

 

[Ab Fan]

^ Forgot to include Sobers as well so Ponting goes out.

 

[mominsaigol]

No Australian batter in modern era is fit enough to tie the shoelaces of the legendary Sachin Tendulkar.

Smith’s combined runs tally( Test+ ODIs+ T20) is half of Sachin’s combined runs tally even though he is at verge of his career end and that tells you how much behind he is to the legendary Sachin Tendulkar in the reckoning.

In terms of class of batting, AB de Villiers alone is in a different class to Smith as visible by their performance in the Sandpaper series where Starc and Cummins used illegal tricks to counter SA batting but had no answers to ABD’s calibre of batsmanship vs high pace.

Overall, Sachin, Viv, Kohli, Ponting and Lara remains the five best batters to play the game since Don Bradman.

Smith is 100x superior to Pointing in tests.

Kohli doesn't have the longetivity to be considered top 5, infact he doesn't even have the ability to be top 5.

He a top tier player in his prime but top 5 is hilarious.

You Indians need to get rid of your so called patriotism. Just because Indian media and India controls a 1.4B hive mind, doesn't make its true.

2 centuries ago the whole world believed that the world was flat.

What a vast majority believes doesn't make it true.

No top 5 batter drops their test status from Viv to Younis to Laxman.

If kohli continues playing who knows, he might avg below 40 in tests lol.

 

[mominsaigol]

@Ab Fan

To be a top 5 batsmen in cricket you need to be top tier in both odi and tests.

Kohli does not fit the bill. Then again what do you know, You believe ashwin and Pollock are in the same tier lol.

 

[mominsaigol]

The fact that some people will actually put Kohli as a top 5 odi+ test batter over Pointing is hilarious.

Barring Pointing's poor record in India, he still retired with a 51 avg and has 41 centuries in Tests. Kohli on the other hand is a has been and a certified circus clown in tests.

Kohli will retire not even avg 50 and less then 35 centuries in Tests.

When it comes to odi, kohli is ahead of Pointing. That I agree on.

However Pointing still has more memorable moments specially 2003 wc final. To top it off both came in different eras.

I'm 100% certain Pointing and kohli would have similar numbers in odi if both existed in the exact same era.

Pointing still retired with fantastic numbers in both formats with more memorable moments then kohli in both formats.

Kohli remained an odi bully but has fallen into mediocrity in tests. It's good that kohli avg 57 at one point. Had he been avg 50, then his test numbers would have fallen into the lower 40's.

To hit the nail right on the head, Pointing also retired with more icc trophies then anyone on the planet and an entire era of dominance in tests and odi as captain.

It's a huge shame he's an aussie and Indians have a secret hatred for aussie cricketers despite the whole drama of we respect Australia bro.

 

[mominsaigol]

The fact that some people will actually put Kohli as a top 5 odi+ test batter over Pointing is hilarious.

Barring Pointing's poor record in India, he still retired with a 51 avg and has 41 centuries in Tests. Kohli on the other hand is a has been and a certified circus clown in tests.

Kohli will retire not even avg 50 and less then 35 centuries in Tests.

When it comes to odi, kohli is ahead of Pointing. That I agree on.

However Pointing still has more memorable moments specially 2003 wc final. To top it off both came in different eras.

I'm 100% certain Pointing and kohli would have similar numbers in odi if both existed in the exact same era.

Pointing still retired with fantastic numbers in both formats with more memorable moments then kohli in both formats.

Kohli remained an odi bully but has fallen into mediocrity in tests. It's good that kohli avg 57 at one point. Had he been avg 50, then his test numbers would have fallen into the lower 40's.

To hit the nail right on the head, Pointing also retired with more icc trophies then anyone on the planet and an entire era of dominance in tests and odi as captain.

It's a huge shame he's an aussie and Indians have a secret hatred for aussie cricketers despite the whole drama of we respect Australia bro.

Now when it comes to Kohli vs Smith.

Kohli is superior. That I'll agree on. Smith is better in tests but Kohli has remained a better test + Odi + T20 batsmen then Smith.

Smith has remained a one format specialist.

However at the very least Smith exposes how much of a fraud Laxman is.

Lmao at a below 50 averaging test specialist.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

13000 > 9700.

45 > 32.

According to that Tendulkar is the greatest Test batsman ever.

Anderson the greatest fast bowler ever

Btw, didn’t see you applying same logic when you argued Smith > abd in odis.

I think I am quite done arguing with you, there is dishonesty in most of your posts. Atleast stick to one narrative.

 

[mominsaigol]

According to that Tendulkar is the greatest Test batsman ever.

Anderson the greatest fast bowler ever

Btw, didn’t see you applying same logic when you argued Smith > abd in odis.

I think I am quite done arguing with you, there is dishonesty in most of your posts. Atleast stick to one narrative.

Btw, didn’t see you applying same logic when you argued Smith > abd in odis.

That is not what he argued. Infact he acknowledged abd > Smith in odi. I think you're being dishonest. He talked about impact aka Smith's impact is > Abd, which i agree on. Abd carries the SA choking curse with him. Smith's 2015 wc performance beats the day lights out of anything abd has achoeved and that includes his 31 ball 100 by bullying a club level bowling attack.

Ik Indians don't view world cup moments as anything special due to how limited their trophy cabinet is compared to Australia's, however these metrics do matter as well.

You guys just pick and choose whatever you wish. Laxman is the biggest example of this, where all logic is thrown out the window to justify some sort of narrative.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Btw, didn’t see you applying same logic when you argued Smith > abd in odis.

That is not what he argued. Infact he acknowledged abd > Smith in odi. I think you're being dishonest. He talked about impact aka Smith's impact is > Abd, which i agree on. Abd carries the SA choking curse with him. Smith's 2015 wc performance beats the day lights out of anything abd has achoeved and that includes his 31 ball 100 by bullying a club level bowling attack.

Ik Indians don't view world cup moments as anything special due to how limited their trophy cabinet is compared to Australia's, however these metrics do matter as well.

You guys just pick and choose whatever you wish. Laxman is the biggest example of this, where all logic is thrown out the window to justify some sort of narrative.

Abd is a better odi bat, that’s it, done and dusted, period.

When someone picks an all time eleven they will pick Abd not Smith doesn’t matter what rubbish you spouted. No one talks about Smith when they mention great LOI batters and he will only be remembered for his test exploits.

We have the best trophy cabinet after Australia on th other hand your team has the same number of trophies as SriLanka so you are the one who should keep quiet about tournament performances.

Kohli alone has more trophies than Pakistan.

Also if you are justifying his logic of runs and centuries being the prime factor than why not justify Anderson as the GOAT pacer.

Btw, I have no interest in arguing anymore with you too

 

[mominsaigol]

Abd is a better odi bat, that’s it, done and dusted, period.

When someone picks an all time eleven they will pick Abd not Smith doesn’t matter what rubbish you spouted. No one talks about Smith when they mention great LOI batters and he will only be remembered for his test exploits.

We have the best trophy cabinet after Australia on th other hand your team has the same number of trophies as SriLanka so you are the one who should keep quiet about tournament performances.

Kohli alone has more trophies than Pakistan.

Also if you are justifying his logic of runs and centuries being the prime factor than why not justify Anderson as the GOAT pacer.

Btw, I have no interest in arguing anymore with you too

I didn't justify anything.

I explained what @sweep_shot said


2015 Steve smith wc performance is > Abd's entire odi career. That's a fact.

Abd gets a spot at no 5 in an odi team while steve smith doesn't as their multiple no 3 and no 4 batters superior to him in odi specifically viv and pointing.
.

 

[Romali_rotti]

@Hitman

Top 10 best test batsmen (Based of Achievements), This is based of achievements only, Where they rank in skill is another matter.

1) Don Bradman
2) Garfield Sobers
3) Jack Hobbs
4) Sachin Tendulkar
5) Viv Richards
6) Steve Smith
7) Lara
8) Kallis
9) Sunny
10) Sanga

Again this is based of achievements factoring in time periods as well.

I would put Smith ahead of Viv. Viv never went against his atg bowlers. When he did in domestic I heard he avgs in the 30s.

 

[BouncerGuy]

No personal remarks, please. STAY ON TOPIC

 

[mominsaigol]

I would put Smith ahead of Viv. Viv never went against his atg bowlers. When he did in domestic I heard he avgs in the 30s.

That's fair. However Viv didn't hit a slump.

Smith from 2014-2020 is a monster test batter but nowadays he's just good. He isn't terrible like he in odi, but he's also just okayish.

Viv remained consistent but yes, he didn't face his own atg bowlers.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

I didn't justify anything.

I explained what @sweep_shot said


2015 Steve smith wc performance is > Abd's entire odi career. That's a fact.

Abd gets a spot at no 5 in an odi team while steve smith doesn't as their multiple no 3 and no 4 batters superior to him in odi specifically viv and pointing.
.

If Smiths 2015 performance > abds entire career than how is Abd better?

What kind of mathematics is that?

Lets consider,
Smiths 2015 wc performance alone > Abds entire career

Now add all other Smith performances in lois to that, how is devilliers still ahead?

 

[mominsaigol]

If Smiths 2015 performance > abds entire career than how is Abd better?

What kind of mathematics is that?

Lets consider,
Smiths 2015 wc performance alone > Abds entire career

Now add all other Smith performances in lois to that, how is devilliers still ahead?

I never once said Smith > de villers in odi and neither did @sweep_shot

A player can have one golden year that surpasses any other golden years of a cricketer but that doesn't mean their ahead.

For example 2006 Pointing is superior to any era Sachin except for 2007 Sachin. However overall Sachin > Pointing.

De villers gets into an odi atg team at no 5, no 3 and no 4 likely go to Pointing and Viv

But because ik you're a kohli fan boy, we can agree to disagree on the no 3 spot.

Regardless, 2015 Smith is > De villers in impact. But yes, longetivity and performance over an entire career counts and not just one year.

I remember me and sweepshot had this conversation with you. My issue isn't that I'm disagreeing with you on de villers > Smith.

I agree. My issue is that we both said the exact same thing and you have twisted our words.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

I never once said Smith > de villers in odi and neither did @sweep_shot

A player can have one golden year that surpasses any other golden years of a cricketer but that doesn't mean their ahead.

For example 2006 Pointing is superior to any era Sachin except for 2007 Sachin. However overall Sachin > Pointing.

De villers gets into an odi atg team at no 5, no 3 and no 4 likely go to Pointing and Viv

But because ik you're a kohli fan boy, we can agree to disagree on the no 3 spot.

Regardless, 2015 Smith is > De villers in impact. But yes, longetivity and performance over an entire career counts and not just one year.

I remember me and sweepshot had this conversation with you. My issue isn't that I'm disagreeing with you on de villers > Smith.

I agree. My issue is that we both said the exact same thing and you have twisted our words.

Read this post again, don’t just oppose ne on everything

Post in thread 'Does India even need Virat Kohli anymore?'
https://ppforum.pakpassion.net/threads/does-india-even-need-virat-kohli-anymore.315725/post-12357920

 

[mominsaigol]

Read this post again, don’t just oppose ne on everything

Post in thread 'Does India even need Virat Kohli anymore?'
https://ppforum.pakpassion.net/threads/does-india-even-need-virat-kohli-anymore.315725/post-12357920

Read this post again, don’t just oppose ne on everything

That's fair. Thanks for the post.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Btw, on topic , according to me Smith is definitely the best test batsman since Bradman.

Tendulkar and Lara are ahead as complete batters also they are way more talented than Smith but Smiths impact is really unmatched, truly a generational test cricketer.

 

[mominsaigol]

Btw, on topic , according to me Smith is definitely the best test batsman since Bradman.

Tendulkar and Lara are ahead as complete batters also they are way more talented than Smith but Smiths impact is really unmatched, truly a generational test cricketer.

2014-2020 SS for me. He fell off after. Sachin is overall superior thanks to longetivity.

I view longetivity as the ultimate metric. However WC final 100's and wtc 100's count as the 2nd best metric.

But yes ss is > Sachin from 2014-2020. Sachin is overall superior however due to consistency.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

According to me the Top 10 test batsman of last 50 years are:

Smith
Tendulkar
Lara
Viv Richards
Gavaskar
G Chappell
Ponting
Border
Sangakkara
S Waugh

 

[Romali_rotti]

That's fair. However Viv didn't hit a slump.

Smith from 2014-2020 is a monster test batter but nowadays he's just good. He isn't terrible like he in odi, but he's also just okayish.

Viv remained consistent but yes, he didn't face his own atg bowlers.

Ah I didn't realise you were talking about ODIs as well, I was speaking from a test match only perspective...

 

[Romali_rotti]

According to me the Top 10 test batsman of last 50 years are:

Smith
Tendulkar
Lara
Viv Richards
Gavaskar
G Chappell
Ponting
Border
Sangakkara
S Waugh

Kallis is definitely ahead of Chappell, Border, Waugh and Sangakarra.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Kallis is definitely ahead of Chappell, Border, Waugh and Sangakarra.

How so?
Kallis batted in the most batsman friendly era.
While Waugh batted in the late 80s and 90s with spectacular record against the best bowling side of his era.

He ended West Indies dominance in test cricket with his batting performances and was known as the most mentally tough batsman ever.

He averaged around 70 in Wi against the likes of Ambrose, Marshall, Walsh, Bishop.

 

[mominsaigol]

Ah I didn't realise you were talking about ODIs as well, I was speaking from a test match only perspective...

No I was talking about tests.

Smith is still a very good test player however his 2021 to 2024 self is not better then viv in tests.

Yes his 2014-2020 self is >>>>> Viv in tests but I value longetivity and by longetivity I mean a player who is consistent till his final innings.

Viv, Sachin, Lara, bradman were all consistent. They may have had a few bad moments like Sachin had an awful 2006, but overall they were fine and would cone back to their peak eventually.

Smith from 2014-2020 is next level but it's clear as day he didn't maintain that form in test.

Even his wtc 2023 century against India was a support century. The main winners of that test were the bowlers, Carey in the 2nd innings and a monster knock from Teavis head in the first innings.

Smith more or less played a similar innings that labu did in 2023 wc final.

Don't get me wrong it was a key innings, Had Smith not done what he did, India would have won

But it's a far cry from Prime Smith who would single handidely bully England in the ashes and the whole ashes was literally Smith Bullying England.

Smith has clearly lost that touch. Viv always remained dominant but didn't face his own atg bowlers so theirs that.

 

[Hitman]

Yes it was nobodies from Pakistan who forced Sachin to equal 10,000 runs with the same amount of innings as his peers and nobodies from Pakistan forced you to post it : :

Waiting now for you to mention the hand written note from Bradman that you keep under your pillow.

Not really, those are the job of children like you. Here are some facts regarding the peerless Viv Richards, someone who is often rated by his peers and contemporaries as the finest batsman they ever saw.

Batsmen who reached 6000 Test runs in lesser innings than Viv - Bradman, Sobers, Smith, Hammond, Hutton, Barrington, Sangakkara, Gavaskar, Kohli.

You agree those 9 highlighted batsmen were superior to Viv?


Batsmen who reached 7000 Test runs in lesser innings than Viv - Smith, Hammond, Sehwag, Tendulkar, Sobers, Sangakkara, Kohli, M. Yusuf, Gavaskar.

You agree those 9 highlighted batsmen were superior to Viv?


Batsmen who reached 8000 Test runs in lesser innings than Viv - Smith, Sangakkara, Tendulkar, Sobers, Dravid, Sehwag, Miandad, Lara, Hayden, Williamson, Ponting, Jayawardene, Y. Khan, Gavaskar.

You agree those 14 highlighted batsmen were superior to Viv?

 

[mominsaigol]

Not really, those are the job of children like you. Here are some facts regarding the peerless Viv Richards, someone who is often rated by his peers and contemporaries as the finest batsman they ever saw.

Batsmen who reached 6000 Test runs in lesser innings than Viv - Bradman, Sobers, Smith, Hammond, Hutton, Barrington, Sangakkara, Gavaskar, Kohli.

You agree those 9 highlighted batsmen were superior to Viv?


Batsmen who reached 7000 Test runs in lesser innings than Viv - Smith, Hammond, Sehwag, Tendulkar, Sobers, Sangakkara, Kohli, M. Yusuf, Gavaskar.

You agree those 9 highlighted batsmen were superior to Viv?


Batsmen who reached 8000 Test runs in lesser innings than Viv - Smith, Sangakkara, Tendulkar, Sobers, Dravid, Sehwag, Miandad, Lara, Hayden, Williamson, Ponting, Jayawardene, Y. Khan, Gavaskar.

You agree those 14 highlighted batsmen were superior to Viv?

Change it to Sachin and india and he'll agree .

Or maybe change it to chacha and he'll agree.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Not really, those are the job of children like you. Here are some facts regarding the peerless Viv Richards, someone who is often rated by his peers and contemporaries as the finest batsman they ever saw.

Batsmen who reached 6000 Test runs in lesser innings than Viv - Bradman, Sobers, Smith, Hammond, Hutton, Barrington, Sangakkara, Gavaskar, Kohli.

You agree those 9 highlighted batsmen were superior to Viv?


Batsmen who reached 7000 Test runs in lesser innings than Viv - Smith, Hammond, Sehwag, Tendulkar, Sobers, Sangakkara, Kohli, M. Yusuf, Gavaskar.

You agree those 9 highlighted batsmen were superior to Viv?


Batsmen who reached 8000 Test runs in lesser innings than Viv - Smith, Sangakkara, Tendulkar, Sobers, Dravid, Sehwag, Miandad, Lara, Hayden, Williamson, Ponting, Jayawardene, Y. Khan, Gavaskar.

You agree those 14 highlighted batsmen were superior to Viv?

No I don't agree. But I never posted these types of random stats to belittle Smith.

 

[Hitman]

Change it to Sachin and india and he'll agree .

Or maybe change it to chacha and he'll agree.

That's the problem with today's kids. As you said, making it to 99% of all All Time World XI till date does not mean there can't be anyone better. Bradman has always been #1 in any sensible fan's book. I'd take 2 more names who can lay claim to be better batsmen - Garry Sobers and Viv Richards. Mind you, I'm not saying they are undisputedly better. All I'm saying is there are multiple ex cricketers and pundits of the game who rate those 2 batsman slightly higher.​

 

[Hitman]

No I don't agree. But I never posted these types of random stats to belittle Smith.

When did I belittle Smith? I merely posted some facts without any demeaning opinion. Your problem that you can't digest it.

What I posted are not some random stats. 10,000 Test runs is a major/significant milestone for any batsman, much like 500 Test wickets is for any bowler. The thread asks whether Steve Smith is the best batsman after Bradman. I merely showed that having played the same number of innings as him, both Tendulkar and Lara already reached 10,000 Test runs, while he is still lagging.

 

[Hitman]

No I don't agree. But I never posted these types of random stats to belittle Smith.

By the way, I used the same logic as you did. You were the one trying to act smart saying how both Lara and Sangakkara reached 10,000 Test runs in the exact same number of innings as Sachin did. The point is that there has been no one faster.

I in turn showed you multiple batsman who reached 6000, 7000, and 8000 Test runs faster than Viv. In fact there are 14 batsman who reached 8000 Test runs faster than Viv.

In Sachin's case, your logic should be applied. But in Viv's case, the exact same logic of yours should not be applied? ​

 

[Hitman]

Smith started his career as a spin bowling all-rounder so this isn’t a fair comparison.

2014-2019 Smith is the best Test batsman of the last 50 years.

6,000+ runs, 24 centuries in 56 Tests at an average of 72. Simply incredible.

I've never belittled Smith till date date. In fact, I can't. Anyone who tries to belittle such a high quality Test batsman will end up making a fool out of himself. But I don't agree that he is overall the best Test batsman after Bradman. In my view, the honor goes to Garry Sobers.​

 

[FearlessRoar]

Highest Average in Border Gavaskar Trophy (Active Player, Min 500 Runs):

65.06 - Steve Smith (35 Innings)
62.40 - Rishabh Pant (12 Innings)
50.82 - Chateshwar Pujara (43 innings)
48.26 - Virat Kohli (42 Innings)
47.20 - Marnus Labuschagne (17 Innings)