Is the England ODI team past its best?

[Nikhil_cric]

Since 2015 , England have been, unquestionably, the best bilateral ODI team in the world by playing an extremely aggressive brand of cricket that no team could match. However, in the last year or so, after 2 series defeats, 1 to Australia and 1 to India, they are now 4th in the rankings and the aura of invincibility seems to have been punctured just a bit.

Do Ppers think this is just a blip or do you think the days of England being an exceptional bilateral ODI team are behind them? Discuss.

 

[Varun]

The moment Morgan retires and they go back to the typically English, spreadsheet style of playing cricket, they will be back to the middle of the pack much like their test team.

 

[Firebat]

They might have dipped or taken their foot of the gas since the WC win, with the focus on other formats, but I don't believe Roy, Bairstow, Buttler, Stokes, Root are past their best. Their bowling however might have to be carried a little by Archer, who will only get better.

 

[Titan24]

Their current LOI team is still one of the best around in my opinion however, even if we want to argue upon that I dont think we can argue on the fact that they have changed their whole system rather revolutionized it in the last decade or so with respect to how they go about their white ball cricket especially which is continuously producing good white ball products.

My point regarding their white ball system can be validated by the number of decent upcoming decent white ball players in the form of youngsters and as bench strength. I think Eng is currently one of the very few teams if not the only team which can put forward a second white ball XI and still be highly competitive against most teams on majority of the surfaces.

Their new premier tournament "The hundred" if executed properly will only add onto that strength with their already quality products getting necessary exposure as well.

They are definitely not unbeatable but surely one of the best white ball sides going around still. Post Morgan, yes there can be a slight adaptability phase considering he has been their best ever white ball captain in terms of results but that wouldn't change the fact that their system is continuously producing good white ball products since the shift in their cricketing culture.

 

[Hasan123]

They are still a top ODI team. A majority of their players still have 2/3 years of peak performance left in them. They have a lot of depth and options who can step in. I would expect England to remain a top LO team for a while.

 

[asadee]

They fluked a world cup final win. NZ is a much better team than them

 

[Ab Fan]

They never were good enough. It was a fluke World Cup win at home where even GODS were with them.

A great world cup team should be crushing the opposition if they are playing the WC final at home in modern era and not just escape away thanks to deflection and boundary count rule.

They would have never won vs Australia, India or Pakistan in the finals but they were gifted a WC win by GOD of luck in 2019 WC as they sent the Kiwis as the finalists who had to unfortunately suffer the wrath of deflection and some rubbish rules.

 

[Markhor]

I think people underestimate the depth of white ball talent in England. Sam Hain has a LA average of 59 and a SR of 86, and would've got into the England ODI side in any era but today he doesn't get a sniff.

 

[Markhor]

They never were good enough. It was a fluke World Cup win at home where even GODS were with them.

A great world cup team should be crushing the opposition if they are playing the WC final at home in modern era and not just escape away thanks to deflection and boundary count rule.

They would have never won vs Australia, India or Pakistan in the finals but they were gifted a WC win by GOD of luck in 2019 WC as they sent the Kiwis as the finalists who had to unfortunately suffer the wrath of deflection and some rubbish rules.

What if rain hadn't intervened in 1992, what if Australia and WI didn't boycott Sri Lanka in 1996, what if South Africa hadn't choked in 1999 - World Cup winning teams benefiting from luck is nothing new.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

No.

And saying their World Cup win was a fluke is an absolutely outrageous thing to say. Especially considering the way they ran over India and New Zealand in the group stages and Australia in the semi-finals.

New Zealand may have been the slightly better team in the final, but fact of the matter is that they weren't comfortably the better team even on that day. If they were they would never have let the game reach the super over in the first place.

Were England lucky? Sure they were. But when you play as well as England did --not just in that tournament but from 2015 onwards-- than you deserve a little bit of luck.

 

[hitthestump]

I believe England have peaked and in 10 years they'll be worse than Pak will.

What's amazing is how many foreigners they are currently carrying. A team made of core English players (which includes Moeen Ali but doesn't include Morgan, Archer etc.) would be pretty average too.

 

[Ab Fan]

What if rain hadn't intervened in 1992, what if Australia and WI didn't boycott Sri Lanka in 1996, what if South Africa hadn't choked in 1999 - World Cup winning teams benefiting from luck is nothing new.

South Africa choking in 1999 is not bad luck. It was basic running between wickets mistake and the Australian fielder hit the stumps so they got it right when it mattered and qualified to the WC finals which they won handsomely.

Sri Lanka beat Australia and India both comfortably in finals and semis and won the tournament in 1996.

Pakistan won the 1992 WC finals by doing well under pressure situations and Wasim striking those two wickets when mattered. That team with legends like Wasim, Miandad and Imran deserved one World Cup win.

They all were well deserved commendable wins. Only the one which had deflection was fluke. England had everything going their way that tournament ( home crowd and peaking at right time, teams like SA/Pak/NZ don't even get that home advantage these days) but still they just managed to escape away by a deflection.

 

[Farabi]

South Africa choking in 1999 is not bad luck. It was basic running between wickets mistake and the Australian fielder hit the stumps so they got it right when it mattered and qualified to the WC finals which they won handsomely.

Sri Lanka beat Australia and India both comfortably in finals and semis and won the tournament in 1996.

Pakistan won the 1992 WC finals by doing well under pressure situations and Wasim striking those two wickets when mattered. That team with legends like Wasim, Miandad and Imran deserved one World Cup win.

They all were well deserved commendable wins. Only the one which had deflection was fluke. England had everything going their way that tournament ( home crowd and peaking at right time, teams like SA/Pak/NZ don't even get that home advantage these days) but still they just managed to escape away by a deflection.

After the induction of Haris and Shaheen during the WC19, Pakistan's campaign gained a lot of momentum and was peaking at the right team. It could have gone all the way. Very unlucky to miss out a birth in the Semi Finals due to bad NRR and because the game vs SL was cancelled. Aside from the game vs the WI, Pak played well - losing to 2 (vs Aus and India) and winning 5 games (NZ, Eng, SA, BG, AFG).

 

[Saj]

They've got a lot of options in key areas.

If one player is struggling or out of form, they have others to step in.

Great team, with some excellent players available to them.

 

[Smbhayi]

South Africa choking in 1999 is not bad luck. It was basic running between wickets mistake and the Australian fielder hit the stumps so they got it right when it mattered and qualified to the WC finals which they won handsomely.

Sri Lanka beat Australia and India both comfortably in finals and semis and won the tournament in 1996.

Pakistan won the 1992 WC finals by doing well under pressure situations and Wasim striking those two wickets when mattered. That team with legends like Wasim, Miandad and Imran deserved one World Cup win.

They all were well deserved commendable wins. Only the one which had deflection was fluke. England had everything going their way that tournament ( home crowd and peaking at right time, teams like SA/Pak/NZ don't even get that home advantage these days) but still they just managed to escape away by a deflection.

They got an extra run by umpire error too..

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Since the last World Cup, this is how teams have fared. During the previous World Cup cycle, England were destroying teams left, right and centre. Clearly st their peak. They're a good side now buy not exceptional I'd say.

 

[Robert]

Bairstow, Hales, and Root will walk back in.

Brook too.

Having said that, Buttler is not a good skipper, and Moeen should retire.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Roy is finished. They need to move on from him and give someone else a go while Bairstow is injured.

Moeen is done as well. Barely bowls these days. And batting is still hit or miss.

Bairstow, Brook, Root, Livingstone will solve a lot of their problems.

 

[Robert]

Roy is finished. They need to move on from him and give someone else a go while Bairstow is injured.

Moeen is done as well. Barely bowls these days. And batting is still hit or miss.

Bairstow, Brook, Root, Livingstone will solve a lot of their problems.

Bairstow
Hales
Root
Brook
Livingstone
Buttler

is a much more robust batting line.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Bairstow
Hales
Root
Brook
Livingstone
Buttler

is a much more robust batting line.

Think they've moved past Hales for ODIs. Hales hasn't played an LA match in quite a while. There are some talented youngsters who can stake the claim for the second opener slot still.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Bairstow
Hales
Root
Brook
Livingstone
Buttler

is a much more robust batting line.

I think England will go with Malan. He has been your best ODI in the last 2 years. Dobt think Hales will make it.

 

[Robert]

Think they've moved past Hales for ODIs. Hales hasn't played an LA match in quite a while. There are some talented youngsters who can stake the claim for the second opener slot still.

He really blew what could have been a fine LO career….

 

[VForVendetta]

Butler is a poor skipper, he simply has not been able to establish his authority in this format as a leader. They still haven't recovered from Morgan & Stokes's departure. They are missing the firepower of Bairstow,Brook & Livingstone. Specially Bairstow, that guy is a massive difference maker. Not sure what purpose Moeen brings to the team these days.Only one of Woakes & Curran should feature in these conditions. Woakes in particular isn't going to have much of an impact. They are definitely past their majestic 15-19 prime, but still with right adjustment can defend the wc. I just don't think Butler is the right man for the job,even though it's too late.

 

[Robert]

Butler is a poor skipper, he simply has not been able to establish his authority in this format as a leader. They still haven't recovered from Morgan & Stokes's departure. They are missing the firepower of Bairstow,Brook & Livingstone. Specially Bairstow, that guy is a massive difference maker. Not sure what purpose Moeen brings to the team these days.Only one of Woakes & Curran should feature in these conditions. Woakes in particular isn't going to have much of an impact. They are definitely past their majestic 15-19 prime, but still with right adjustment can defend the wc. I just don't think Butler is the right man for the job,even though it's too late.

Agree 100%

 

[Robert]

I think England will go with Malan. He has been your best ODI in the last 2 years. Dobt think Hales will make it.

So....

Bairstow
Malan
Root
Brook
Livingstone
Buttler (w,c)
Curran
Rashid
Archer
Wood
Topley?

 

[Nikhil_cric]

So....

Bairstow
Malan
Root
Brook
Livingstone
Buttler (w,c)
Curran
Rashid
Archer
Wood
Topley?

Sounds about right. With the likes of Olly Stone, Woakes, James Vince etc. rounding off the squad.

 

[HitWicket]

So....

Bairstow
Malan
Root
Brook
Livingstone
Buttler (w,c)
Curran
Rashid
Archer
Wood
Topley?

Moeen's been deadweight in the team for years but I can't see them dropping him now unfortunately. Probably in for Topley in this XI with Roy potentially playing over Livingstone.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

He really blew what could have been a fine LO career….

Morgan's treatment of him was a bit too stringent I'd say.

Now he's at a point in his life where he's closer to the end than the start, and he's making some good money as well. He knows what's better for him now.